KIDS SUPPORTING PARENTS

[Teacher Terry]

On the MMM website there have been many discussions of kids having to support partially their parents because the parents were not responsible with money, etc. In most cases I find it shocking that the parents would take the $ instead of doing whatever was necessary to support themselves. I know there are always exceptions but it appears that many kids are helping their parents. What does everyone think about this?

[ApatheticNoMore]

It seems to me very few people would even be able to support their parents. If it's just giving them a little extra for food or a utility bill when they came up short then it might not be a significant expense, but otherwise, it seems to mostly to be simply impossible even if one wanted to do it unless one was simply rolling in dough (I imagine some provide a spare room or something though). As the end of the day it comes down to: yea, yea, just like I should have chosen richer parents, you should have raised richer kids >8)

So mostly if parents are irresponsible with money it will probably end badly, but like much in life, there is very little one can do about it.

[iris lilies]

I fns it shocking too. But in other cultures its not shocking, so
I try to thnk of cultural relevance.

but dear god, if thse are baby boomer parents are acting as parasites on their children, that is inexcusable. I know what my (long dead) parents would say about that. Even though my dad made modest rent payments for his mom along with several of his brothers, that was a different thing. She was not in a place of prosperity, they were.

[Chicken lady]

When i was a kid my parents fed, clothed, and sheltered me, supported my activities and gave me a litte spending money. They also chose what I would eat, what i would wear, where I would live, what I could do, and what I was allowed to buy. If they were in comparable need of support, I would be happy to do the same for them.

[freshstart]

If I was working full time and I was done with what I had to pay for college (it's in my separation agreement about paying), I would help them as long as I had enough to keep saving for retirement. Because my dad dragged us out of abject poverty by working 3 jobs, was in the reserves, going to night school to get a better job (that was incredibly stressful and soul-sucking but had good benefits and a good pension). My mom worked at night when he was home. They worked like dogs to provide while my dad had a very rare undiagnosed mitochondrial disease that made him unwell in many ways, he suffered quite a bit with pain for many years. Yet he kept going and he did not complain. And they paid part of my college. My plan was to someday pay them back that money at least. So that's all not going to happen now but if something terrible happens, I will tap my retirement to help them. No matter what is going on with me physically, I try to help with my mom's care needs. I hope to get stronger, be able to drive again and replace my poor dad as chauffeur. I would do anything for them because they did and do for me. I can never repay that debt.

Parents who were just bad with their money, I would help in a limited way but with an agreement that they follow a reasonable budget and work to pay off debts. If they're off at Vegas while I'm sending them grocery money, yeah, NO.

[iris lilies]

When i was a kid my parents fed, clothed, and sheltered me, supported my activities and gave me a litte spending money. They also chose what I would eat, what i would wear, where I would live, what I could do, and what I was allowed to buy. If they were in comparable need of support, I would be happy to do the same for them.

Not me, not if they continually threw away money and did not use common sense about saving for a rainy day.

Oh, and the parents depicted on MMM would not put up with children chosing what the eat, wear , do, and live.

[freshstart]

are the parents on MMM of working age and pulling this crap? or are they seniors who failed to plan?

[Chicken lady]

Then clearly, the parents on mmm are financially able to choose their own food, clothing, and home - as I did as soon as I could - and don't NEED help from their kids. Or, as my dad always pointed out "beggars can't be choosers."

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well only my mom is still living but if she ends up broke and it might well happen it would because all the money was spent on a 'ner do well sibling and nothing was done to stop it (I yell about it, it makes no difference). Yes money was spent on drugs there, and gambling, and compulsive shopping (I do mean compulsive running up debt shopping, not just buying something nice here and there). I know EXACTLY where tons of money went and it's all that. And 'ner do well doesn't even work. So no it's not ok to just be expected to bail out. But I can't say I really even have the financial capacity to any great degree either, is bailing out parents really something unmarried people struggling (and doing ok but) to get by in this world do? I should have found a rich husband or something I guess (too bad I've never tried to, I wasn't really raised that way anyway).

But all they did for me? Well my parents were never very into the parenting thing and never tried to be. Kids were kind of just there. But we didn't lack for material necessities. But they are hardly going to win any good parenting awards. But anyway bailing is being the good kid who bails out at the cost of martyrdom to self (ok if one is rich, maybe not, but ...) when all the money was run up by 'ner do well on drugs and gambling etc., and much money is money saved from years of working, while 'ner do well never worked. And the whole "but all they did for you, you should bail", really parents capable of having done that much for their kids probably don't deliberately put themselves in situations where their kids have to support them later period. They may never have earned much or they may fall on hard times or something, yes, or just make stupid financial errors, but not because they weren't trying to avoid it. That tends to happen more with people who were dysfunctional then and are dysfunctional now.

Dysfunctional families, it's a gift that keeps on giving one's whole life (and not just in some psychological realm one could try to get over, but in the financial realm here). Whether mom goes broke is about as much in my hands as global warming, yea there's some things I do that aren't best in terms of climate change, but it's so far beyond anything I can fix that ... yea it may end very very badly but ... it's out of my hands. Of course it does tend to weight one down even more, having additional things to fear in the future. I do love my Mom, a totally out of it and constantly overwhelmed parent back then, but a good friend now that I'm an adult (basically a wonderful sweet and smart person with much to offer the world, who whoever, probably shouldn't have procreated). But the money ... I don't' even know.

[razz]

I offered to place my mother on a granny flat on our farm to give her some more independence and retain some of her resources that she could use if she sold her own home. She thought about it but wanted to stay where she was with the reduced income so I backed off and left her to her decision. I think that kids can help but need to set parameters on what is doable and stick to those parameters. If the parents' $$$ were and are still being wasted on a ne'er do well, all assistance is gone. People make their choices, some really bad and some really good, respect them and let go.

[ToomuchStuff]

Being I am not over there and there is no link, it is hard to have a discussion about what others are discussing.
I don't think it is a one size fits all answer though, and from what I am reading here, none of us do. I know of circumstances where the parents raised more then 6 kids, so they do save and know how to scrimp, but they can and have outlived their money. I know of medical circumstances, that have brought the kids in to help (short term or terminal thing). In one of those cases, the parents divorced to protect them separately. (there were other issues which could have been affected by the medical and brought about legal issues)
I also know a couple, that the parents divorced at some point and the remarried mom and stepdad, are both still working at 80. But they also kept believing that the housing market will always go up, and would move up in house and finally lost their house. (she is in real estate and tried to get me to move up when I paid mine off) She said she was proud of me for not moving, as they moved in with her kid for a couple of years, and now have moved into an apartment, due to her daughter having medical issues of her own (and effectively losing her house to pay medical expenses).
Addiction issues aside (think some have some sort of medical component to addiction that may not pass to the next generation, know an example), if one is bad with money, then the kids already have a strike against them, and may not be in a position to help (but still wouldn't be responsible enough to say they couldn't). Then you will have the ones that try the guilt factor.

[awakenedsoul]

On the MMM website there have been many discussions of kids having to support partially their parents because the parents were not responsible with money, etc. In most cases I find it shocking that the parents would take the $ instead of doing whatever was necessary to support themselves. I know there are always exceptions but it appears that many kids are helping their parents. What does everyone think about this?

I think it's partly cultural, and partly generational. In some cultures it is expected that the children will support the parents. It's also common in poor families. Not everyone is taught to live beneath their means, or to save for retirement. My ex boyfriend's mother was in poor health, in her sixties, and she had no money. She received social security, but it wasn't enough to pay her bills. She had stayed home with him after working as a nurse. It was a strain for him to help her, but he felt like he had no choice. He contributed to her rent, groceries, and assisted her in many ways. As an only child, it was very hard on him. It also affected our finances as a couple.

I am fortunate that my father planned well for retirement. He was raised that way, and has always been very frugal. It takes a lot of discipline. Many people have children that are unplanned. That can be very expensive. In my career, I would not have been able to afford to support children. I made a conscious choice not to have them. Even Dave Ramsey tells couples to have children first, and then figure out how to pay for everything later...provided they are on a plan to get out of debt.

With all of the people drowning in debt, I can see how this is happening. It's sad. It's such a burden for the adult children. I haven't seen the thread, though.

[Teacher Terry]

The parents are baby boomers and the kids are giving them usually between 300-500/month. One is giving 800/month. Most are paying some of their parents bills because the parents waste their $ . My grandparents took in the FIL when old because there was no SS and at 70 he got too old to work. When my Grandpa died his pension died with him (no survivor options to choose from) so my parents got my Grandma in a very nice senior apartment based on income but they still had to help with meds, etc just because her SS was so tiny. 2 of the 3 siblings helped but she only needed small amounts. My Mom after my Dad died got a much reduced pension and SS but she lived on it and would not take $ from any of us kids. Sometimes we would take her on a trip and pay and that she would take. I would cut my discretionary expenses if I had too but would never take $ from my kids. I think there is a difference between helping people in dire situations and giving parents $ because they aren't good with their own.

[rodeosweetheart]

My in-laws tried to get my husband to pay a thousand dollars a month (he is one of 7 kids) to keep my fil in a nursing home when his wife (husband's stepmother) announced that they were "broke", even though his pension was still coming and was more than what my husband makes a month. I said if he went along with that, we would be getting divorced. They had traveled constantly, golfed, remodeled their house extensively, and in general lived at a much higher level than we do. When my fil died, my step-mother-in law took three of four months at a spiritual retreat center, retreating. She is still young enough to get a job (she is much younger than her husband) but is now living on insurance payout, I guess.

She has been in much better health than I for the last 15 years, but would not work. They also made more money than we did. A weird situation, most distressing.

[Teacher Terry]

RS: some people have no shame.

[jp1]

My in-laws tried to get my husband to pay a thousand dollars a month (he is one of 7 kids) to keep my fil in a nursing home when his wife (husband's stepmother) announced that they were "broke", even though his pension was still coming and was more than what my husband makes a month. I said if he went along with that, we would be getting divorced. They had traveled constantly, golfed, remodeled their house extensively, and in general lived at a much higher level than we do. When my fil died, my step-mother-in law took three of four months at a spiritual retreat center, retreating. She is still young enough to get a job (she is much younger than her husband) but is now living on insurance payout, I guess.

She has been in much better health than I for the last 15 years, but would not work. They also made more money than we did. A weird situation, most distressing.

What an appalling story. But some people have no shame when it comes to money. My grandmother had been blind from diabetes from the time my mother was in high school in the '40s. My grandparents retired around 1960, sold their farm, moved to town and my uncle moved into the basement apartment. (he was the youngest of 8 and in his early 20's) Grandpa died shortly after they moved into the house. Uncle proceeded to get married, have two kids, and continued to live in the basement with his family, all of whom helped take care of his blind mother for the next 15 years before she passed away in the mid-70s. After she died my mom and 3 of her siblings each gave Uncle their 1/8 of the house to thank him for all he had done over the years caring for their mother. The other 3 insisted that he take out a loan and buy out their part of the inheritance (a house that in today's dollars was worth maybe $100,000). I didn't hear this story until the late '90s. After mom told it she asked me to guess who the 3 siblings were that had insisted on being bought out. I immediately knew because this had caused a permanent split in the family. The four who had given Uncle their share of the house, plus uncle, were all incredibly close. The other three, not nearly so much.

[Teacher Terry]

Sounds like he earned that $ and the others should have given him their share. Very sad.