Making friends with denny

[Chicken lady]

This could go in relationships, or politics, but I have a feeling it's going to be about spiritual growth.

Denny is a neighbor. He's a retired Vietnam vet in his 70s with health issues, a family that has dissaponted him, and a wife who is still working and visits her sister a lot. He's a trump republican. He flies a rebel flag and has a sign on the locked gate to his driveway announcing that he will shoot you. He shoots anything that eats the fish in his pond - including protected migratory birds.

He's lonely and sad and he has a tendency to turn up when I'm busy and talk a lot. Mostly about things I disagree with him on. I don't like him. I feel sorry for him, but I don't like him.

last night I put the potatoes in the oven and took the trash up. There was Denny. He was clearly upset. He's upset about the Muslims taking over our country. He was near tears. I told him I was more concerned about what the religious right was doing to women's health care. He had no idea that planned parenthood provided routine health care. He also told me a story I found hard to believe. The potatoes burned. I came home near tears.

i looked up his story. I printed out the snopes article and made notes on supporting information. Then I climbed over his gate and rang his doorbell. He didn't shoot me. (I confess I walked up to the house with my arms spread calling his name). He looked at the article and listened to what I had to say. Dinner was cold burned potatoes. Now he wants me to research Somalian immigrants.

there is a t-shirt that says "I prayed for patience so God sent me goats." Apparently the goats are not working, so God sent me Denny.

i believe in education. I believe in inclusion. I believe in communication. I believe I can't fix all the problems in the world but it is wrong to ignore the ones that are right in front of me.

I once had a cat. I found him starving and filthy under a car in a city and I lured him out with food and then I tried to pet him and he bit me. So I caught him and took him home and washed him and took him to the vet and watched to be sure he didn't have rabies. He filled out and became somewhat affectionate and was a really pretty cat. He went in and out of my window at will. And then I took him to visit my parents and he looked around all that farmland and woods and said "right. Thanks. Bye." And he was gone. I haven't thought about that cat in years. Until last night. When I remembered that I am a person who takes care of potentially rabid cats until they no longer need me.

i don't want to make friends with Denny. Choose someone else God.

[rodeosweetheart]

Hang in there; God's work is seldom comfortable.

[razz]

Oh, CL, you have a kind heart. We had a neighbour when I lived on the farm who was very strange. He talked to DH on the side of the road but I stressed that I didn't want him in the house. He was terrified of my big dog as well. He had been cruelly abused as a child as verified by a friend of mine who grew up nearby the very dysfunctional family. All I could think to do was to love the man's good qualities which were evident - thoughtful of his animals, interested in the neighbourhood etc. He did some inappropriate actions as well. At the end, he died under strange circumstances apparently kicked by one of his cattle who were pretty wild and no one found him for a day or so. A friend to whom he had promised his farm checked him every day usually but life got in the way that day.

When people are governed by fear, they are very hard to reason with. Can you find some thought that you can share with him that he can hang onto when the fear takes over. Some on this site have mentioned that the US constitution can cope because it was designed to cope with just such challenges. The challenges facing the originators of the constitution were enormous challenges but they dealt with them and they will be dealt with again and again because that is what smart and capable people do.
May I suggest that you don't do his thinking for him but give hime a question to consider - does he think the originators coped, what did they face, how did they design, etc Denny needs something to keep his mind occupied.

Life is interesting, isn't it?

[Williamsmith]

You raise many important topics.

The concept of being chosen by God is a fascinating study. The Bible mentions numerous characters who were certainly pushed into uncomfortable roles. Jonah is an interesting fellow. Typically, they were at least hesitant and at most right stubborn against it.

You are in good company there. My concept of being called by God is more like playing around in the back water of a rushing stream, slipping on a rock and being swept down stream taking gulps of air at every possibility and ducking hanging tree limbs as you go. You may drown or you may be deposited in some quiet pool where you can reach shore but it will surely be a trip you will remember.

If you want to remain safe, keep your toes out of the water.

The concept of compassion is something all God fearing humans should have. Compassion can be confused with other emotions. For instance, a mouse is not compassionate for the lump of cheese resting on a snap trap. He might be if his brother is caught in that same trap but he will still allow himself to take what's left of the cheese.

Know your object of compassion. It is sometimes worthy of compassion but inherently dangerous. As bright and informed a person that you obviously are, you are certainly knowledgeable about PTSD. Be prepared in your interactions with Denny. Compassion does not insist on sacrificing your good common sense.

[Ultralight]

So many things I want to ask on this thread...

[Ultralight]

Okay, can't resist...

Could it be that God is punishing you by putting Denny in your life?

[Tammy]

UL - you're an atheist. Why even ask that question? ;)

As a psych nurse I find it encouraging that you, the OP, are kind to your neighbor. There's lots of isolated people who are suffering. Basic human kindness goes a long way. The key is to keep your boundaries healthy in your interactions with him. Complete separation and complete entanglement are both unhealthy extremes. It will be good for him to have a neighbor he can chat with now and then.

[Ultralight]

UL - you're an atheist. Why even ask that question? ;)

Does my atheism make the question invalid?

[margene]

You dont have to spend large amounts of time with him. You can make it clear that your opinions differ, which I'm assuming you have. I like the idea that he was placed there by god. I will try to start looking my interactions with difficult people that way. Perhaps there's some positive he can offer you.

[oldhat]

It might be further than you're willing to go, and I wouldn't blame you, but if there is a mosque nearby you could take Denny there for a visit. He undoubtedly lives in the Fox News bubble and gets all his information from Drudge and World Net Daily. Seeing Muslims as ordinary human beings going about their lives might have a positive effect.

I saw a news story some time back in which a bunch of pollsters went out and questioned self-identified conservatives on a variety of topics, including gay marriage. After spending some time talking to them the pollsters concluded by saying, "Oh, by the way, I'm gay." A short time later more pollsters went out and questioned the same group, and found that a significant percentage had changed their views on gay marriage.

Humans are at root social creatures, and it's hard to go on hating someone when you've looked them in the eye.

[razz]

Okay, can't resist...

Could it be that God is punishing you by putting Denny in your life?
Funny you should see it that way, UL. Wonder why?

Others see the compassion, caring and concern expressed about those less fortunate, or those struggling with PTSD, loneliness, fear about the future, mental illness, insecurity, lack of information, political opportunism, etc... and trying to find a way of coping with all the challenges of doing so.

[Ultralight]

Funny you should see it that way, UL. Wonder why?

Others see the compassion, caring and concern expressed about those less fortunate, or those struggling with PTSD, loneliness, fear about the future, mental illness, insecurity, lack of information, political opportunism, etc... and trying to find a way of coping with all the challenges of doing so.

I was not trying to be funny. I thought I was asking a theologically sound question. Across most religions, God has been known to punish folks.

Why would Chicken Lady be an exception if God was a punishing type?

Could god be punishing Denny, kind of like Job? Maybe God has a bet going on with The Devil. And maybe Denny is just a convenient way for God to punish Chicken Lady.

Who knows? Right?


For me I just see a combination of chance encounters, human choices, and some circumstances coming together in such a way that Denny is now part of Chicken Lady's life. No superstition. No supernatural stuff. Just people, their choices, and their circumstances. And mental illness...

[leslieann]

CL, I am so encouraged by your post.

Denny has already benefited from your kindness, and by you simply suggesting that there are other ways to look at the world.

You have put that into the world ALREADY. That is a lovely thing.

And yes, I also understand the "thanks, but no thanks" feeling.

Thank you for being kind to Denny and for posting about it here.

[Ultralight]

Denny has already benefited from your kindness...

100% agree.

[razz]

So everyone who has or had or might have a challenging situation with a troubled neighbour is being punished by God in your view, UA? That covers just about everyone worldwide, doesn't it?

Fortunately, much more of the world sees such situations as challenges that need to be addressed in some way as CL is doing or offering ways of coming up with additional coping ideas, empathy and support. It is a difficult enough challenge without being questioned about being negatively responsible for those situations arising, IMHO anyway.
YMMV.

[Ultralight]

So everyone who has or had or might have a challenging situation with a troubled neighbour is being punished by God in your view, UA? That covers just about everyone worldwide, doesn't it?

Fortunately, much more of the world sees such situations as challenges that need to be addressed in some way as CL is doing or offering ways of coming up with additional coping ideas, empathy and support. It is a difficult enough challenge without being questioned about being negatively responsible for those situations arising, IMHO anyway.
YMMV.

Did you not read my view above? I am just asking about the possibility that this is largely punishment from God.

I am an atheist. I don't believe in the existence of any of the gods.

But I know some people do, so I wanted to see what their thoughts were about the idea that this could be god punishing people.


I think we need much better-funded mental healthcare systems in the US (and throughout the world for that matter). I also think we need a society that is not so maddening. But these are just the tips of the iceberg on what I think.

Still, my question remains valid.

If this could be God instructing CL to be friends with and help this guy, then is it not just as possible that this is punishment?

[Teacher Terry]

I read that when God called Mother Therese she did not want to serve the poor but finally accepted that was what she needed to do. I always thought that was interesting.

[Ultralight]

I read that when God called Mother Therese she did not want to serve the poor but finally accepted that was what she needed to do. I always thought that was interesting.

I'd prefer people empower the poor rather than serve them.

[Teacher Terry]

She was a wonderful, self-sacrificing woman that worked with people who had leprosy when no one else would. Mother Theresa did much good in the world. A life well lived.

[pinkytoe]

All of these issues about other's beliefs come about when we operate without tolerance for each other. I am aghast at what some people choose to believe but I have learned not to try and change anyone's mind - overtly at least. My own DH has what I consider controversial or closed views on certain matters but I no longer argue my case. We all get to choose what we want to believe. There are so many hurting, angry, lonely people out there. Kindness is like a salve to them and I commend CL for being kind.

[rodeosweetheart]

All of these issues about other's beliefs come about when we operate without tolerance for each other.. . . We all get to choose what we want to believe. There are so many hurting, angry, lonely people out there. Kindness is like a salve to them and I commend CL for being kind.

+1

[Ultralight]

She was a wonderful, self-sacrificing woman that worked with people who had leprosy when no one else would. Mother Theresa did much good in the world. A life well lived.

You won't read this. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html

[Ultralight]

There are so many hurting, angry, lonely people out there. Kindness is like a salve to them and I commend CL for being kind.

I largely agree.

[Teacher Terry]

UL: lets be clear, I am not Catholic or really religious, don't believe in saints, miracles, etc. I did read the article but would need more then 1 article to make me change my mind about everything else I have read. I could be wrong and she is a big phony but would need more proof then 1 article.

[oldhat]

If you want an interesting take on Mother Teresa, you might want to look at "An Unquenchable Thirst: Following Mother Teresa in Search of Love, Service and an Authentic Life." (http://www.amazon.com/An-Unquenchable-Thirst-A-Memoir/dp/0385527489) It's the bio of a woman who joined the Sisters of Charity as a starry-eyed teenager straight out of high school and rose quite high in the organization before leaving. Granted, it's just one person's story, but it struck me as a very candid look at the organization, which she came to see as equal parts selfless service and suffocating repression.

Based on what I know, I've always seen Mother T as a mixed bag. I think she was sincere but myopic. In particular, she was a little too fond of suffering, both her own and other people's. It's summed up in an anecdote that may be apocryphal but nevertheless rings true: Mother Teresa was nursing a man in great pain and told him that suffering was the kiss of Jesus. "Mother," the man replied, "will you please ask Jesus to stop kissing me?"

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks I will definitely read that. I chuckled when I read the end of your post. Yikes! I might not like her as much as I thought I did.

[JaneV2.0]

Now I'll have to get the picture of Jesus as Pepe le Pew out of my mind...:~)

[Chicken lady]

I appreciate the positive encouragement, but I'm also sorry I was at work all day!

ultraliteangler, I do not think your atheism makes your question invalid. And it is totally possible that God is using Denny to punish me. Doesn't really change much for me either way. In fact, it could be both - that would be very efficient - or neither. I accept that your world view may be accurate. (I once horrified a Catholic friend by asking if she felt her family was complete and then, when she said "unless God has other plans." Replying, "well, if GOD has other plans, I'm not done. A couple of metal clips aren't going to stop God."

i am currently hiding in my kitchen like a coward, because while I did manage to feed the anorexic kid half my lunch (it's ok. He has an eating plan and I'm allowed to feed him anything I eat if I want to and he will eat it) I also had two new students today - one who literally didn't stop talking for an hour and 15 minutes and one who arrived with a half inch psychiatric folder and barely talked at all - a minor assault in my supply room, some red flag behavior from one of my favorite teens, and the news that my amazing boss is contemplating retirement. And I only got half my lunch. I'm too tired for Denny right now.

[Teacher Terry]

sounds like he is lonely. But be careful because you only have so much energy to put into these things and sometimes we can let ourselves be sucked dry by the neediest of others. I always feel bad when I read these kind of stories.

[Teacher Terry]

Just bought the book on Amazon for a penny and 3.99 shipping. Will report back when I am done reading it. It looks like it will be very interesting.

[The Storyteller]

Does my atheism make the question invalid?

As a fellow atheist, I can say...

Yup.

[The Storyteller]

Still, my question remains valid.

And...

Nope.

[Chicken lady]

Perhaps the question should have been wether or not *I* thought it was possible that God was punishing me....

i still think it's a valid question. Just perhaps a little absurd since ultraliteangler clearly thinks he knows the answer. Like when someone asks a kid "was that nice?" When it clearly was not.

[Ultralight]

I admire and respect chicken lady's compassion.

I just think it is all her and no god.

There is only one set of footprints in the sand the whole time and they look like this:

http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1577&stc=1

[Chicken lady]

Thank you! I really needed a laugh this evening! (I'm "pigeon-toed" too!)

[Ultralight]

All is well that ends well. :)

[Rogar]

I went to see a Dalai Lama talk a number of years ago. At the end he took questions and someone asked if the world would be a better place if everyone converted to Buddhism. I probably don't have the words exactly right, but he said no, that the conversion process would cause too much conflict.

That's about as spiritual as I can get on the discussion. There are people I just don't talk politics with. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong if it makes people dislike each other. Politics are interesting to discuss, but the bottom line is that there is little most common people can or will do to affect the outcomes. I suspect Denny is not just lonely, but angry and possibly showing signs of early dementia. Somewhere inside I'm sure he has a spark of goodness that might be worth exploring, but you are already a better person than me, Chicken Lady. I tend to be poorly affected by angry and negative people and do not feel a responsibility to interact with them.

[Tenngal]

I admire you so much for this post. We are all put in these situations and most of the time I choose to not get involved.
You are doing the right thing and I have not so many times. It is easy to ignore those who believe differently. Keep us
updated.

[Chicken lady]

So, I haven't really updated this. Denny gas come over a couple more times. Once to bring me a picture from the Internet (I think maybe it would be good to keep Denny off the internet, he doesn't seem to have a good personal skepticism filter). And once to argue about publicly funded birth control (no Denny, actually I don't think you should have to pay for anyone else's birth control, but as a practical matter, what do you think we as a society should do about other people's unwanted children?). And cry about the local boy who committed suicide.

he seemed to have a hard time understanding that I find the crying to be one of the few GOOD things about him.