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Ultralight
3-22-16, 8:58am
Why does this kind of thing keep happening?
It is profoundly frightening and anger-inducing.
Why does this kind of thing keep happening?
It is profoundly frightening and anger-inducing.
You answered your own question.
Why does this kind of thing keep happening?
Islamic extremists are terrorizing the western world and Europe's policy of inclusion makes it easy.
Ultralight
3-22-16, 10:13am
Eventually Europe is going to have to do something.
Ultralight
3-22-16, 11:37am
It is just so depressing.
Yes, it is depressing. And we (and European countries) can't keep thinking in terms of "Happiness and Light". We have to get tough.....which we, for some reason, think is inhumane. Yes, some innocent people will be excluded...and that's very unfortunate, but it will save other innocents from death. The meek don't inherit the earth......They have to fight for it. They have to make uncomfortable decisions. We are so accustomed to thinking everyone needs to be treated the same, that a lot of us find it unconscionable to get tough on some groups of people. But it has to be done, unless we want to live in a really ugly world.
I noted in a post in another thread that guerrilla war is not subject to authoritarian solutions--sequestering masses of innocent people in order to prevent future attacks is just playing into the hands of terrorists--creating more ill will that can be exploited for political capital.
So Jane, how would you handle things if you were in charge?
It's a complex situation; glad I'm not in charge! But I'd likely withdraw from meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, since that seems to be the crux of this particular problem.
Yeah, I would be for that too. We're great at meddling!
And perhaps do more humanitarian things to help the underserved...don't we have the same problem with all the shootings in the US? What do we do about that? Perhaps start with spending more money to provide services to help families, children....Maybe McDonald Douglass and all the other weapons makers with their brilliant employees could focus on change for the good rather than weapons of destruction? I don't know how to change a culture, but I am sure more hate and weaponry is NOT the answer.
I noted in a post in another thread that guerrilla war is not subject to authoritarian solutions--sequestering masses of innocent people in order to prevent future attacks is just playing into the hands of terrorists--creating more ill will that can be exploited for political capital.
Not that I'm advocating "authoritarian solutions", but I can't help noticing the paucity of terrorist outrages in truly authoritarian states; Stalin's Soviet Union, for instance, or Tito's Yugoslavia. People criticized GW Bush for removing the dictator of Iraq who "kept a lid on things", albeit in a very brutal fashion. North Korea doesn't seem especially troubled by terrorist activity.
I also don't see an attack in Belgium as some kind of reprisal for extensive Belgian meddling in the Middle East. They were a target of opportunity in a country with a resentful unassimilated minority operating in a relatively open society.
So LDAHL......what do we do with the unassimilated factions in the U.S.? My DH's grandma came over from Hungary in the early 1900s and assimilate was all she wanted to do (along with many other immigrants). But with the U.S. looking so good, rich, free, etc., to so many.......and getting lots of rights when you get here.......how can we keep people from refusing to assimilate, and causing problems from that? I'm all for expressing your love of your former culture....through traditions, food, etc., but what if it allows you to become violent/resentful against all those others who have assimilated and are peaceful people?
I'm reluctant to praise Saddam Hussein, but I agree with those who say he was just as much a force for good as for evil, in that people of all sects, men and women, were far freer under his rule than they have been since. Taking him out was a stupid, stupid move.
Middle Eastern terrorism has taken on a life of its own, fed as it is by the destruction of Syria and widespread youth unemployment. I've read that desperate men in the area have joined Isil just to get the stipend that supports their families--not because they believe in whatever it is Isil thinks it stands for.
Yeah--Brussels (associated with the recent arrest of Saleh Abdelsalam) would be an easier target than Russia is, or North Korea, for that matter. I guess that's why authoritarian regimes are so attractive to some.
but what if it allows you to become violent/resentful against all those others who have assimilated and are peaceful people?
Are you referring to immigrants or American liberals?
Ultralight
3-22-16, 1:22pm
Are you referring to immigrants or American liberals?
This is a valid and serious question.
I'm a little confused Alan. Are you saying you think American liberals have become violent and resentful against immigrants who are peaceful?
So LDAHL......what do we do with the unassimilated factions in the U.S.? My DH's grandma came over from Hungary in the early 1900s and assimilate was all she wanted to do (along with many other immigrants). But with the U.S. looking so good, rich, free, etc., to so many.......and getting lots of rights when you get here.......how can we keep people from refusing to assimilate, and causing problems from that? I'm all for expressing your love of your former culture....through traditions, food, etc., but what if it allows you to become violent/resentful against all those others who have assimilated and are peaceful people?
Like those dreadful unassimilated Amish! They've had centuries to accept our ways! They should be rounded up and deported! :devil:
For what seems like the thousandth time: immigrants assimilate, with very few exceptions, within a generation or two. The children of immigrants speak English, and generally make this country better for being there. But you have a point--Native Americans should have sent our ancestors packing--to hell with that "first Thanksgiving" stuff!
... I'm all for expressing your love of your former culture....through traditions, food, etc., but what if it allows you to become violent/resentful against all those others who have assimilated and are peaceful people?
Isn't that why we have laws? If people attack you violently, call the authorities. There's no law against resentment. Yet.
Alan--Haha.
I'm a little confused Alan. Are you saying you think American liberals have become violent and resentful against immigrants who are peaceful?No, just generally resentful.
Are you kidding? Are all those angry people who are supporting Trump liberals? I see liberals as people who don't resent things that they actually should. Everything is OK with them. Anyone is OK with them. It's all good. Everything.
So LDAHL......what do we do with the unassimilated factions in the U.S.?
My Pueblo and Navajo friends keep wondering when we will assimilate...
Teacher Terry
3-22-16, 2:21pm
I have been to Europe 4x's and would like to go again but this type of thing makes me pause.
Are you kidding? Are all those angry people who are supporting Trump liberals? No, although to be fair the Trump supporters I know are not angry, they're just ready for something new. It's not like they go out en masse to disrupt the opposition or block roads to deny the opposition an audience.
In fairness though, those aren't really liberals as their world view has little tolerance for unapproved liberty. They're the new hotness, social democrats.
I see liberals as people who don't resent things that they actually should. Everything is OK with them. Anyone is OK with them. It's all good. Everything. That's true to a point, unless you disagree with them.
Sorry to get the discussion off point, it's just the way your question was phrased that got me off track.
Ultralight
3-22-16, 2:23pm
I think liberals have not assimilated to American Culture.
I have been to Europe 4x's and would like to go again but this type of thing makes me pause.
Your odds of dying in a traffic accident on the way to the airport are likely considerably higher than perishing in a terrorist attack in Europe. Heck, 26 people died from lightning strikes in the USA last year.
Risk perception.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3563507
Your odds of dying in a traffic accident on the way to the airport are likely considerably higher than perishing in a terrorist attack in Europe.
That may be true, but in my world several co-workers are scheduled to be in Brussels next month to conduct factory acceptance tests on custom built equipment. They'll be utilizing the same airport and subways as today's attacks. Their family and friends can't help but worry.
That may be true, but in my world several co-workers are scheduled to be in Brussels next month to conduct factory acceptance tests on custom built equipment. They'll be utilizing the same airport and subways as today's attacks. Their family and friends can't help but worry.
Understandable, but truthfully they should probably be more worried if their loved ones were going to a conference that includes a golf outing. Lightning seems to strike golf courses more often than terrorists do transportation terminals.
So LDAHL......what do we do with the unassimilated factions in the U.S.?
Provided they aren't committing crimes, nothing. To the extent they are, treat them as criminals.
A friend's family member is due in Paris today. A bit worrisome, but as bae said, the odds are heavily in their favor. Part of guerrilla warfare includes inciting fear in the enemy; if we all cower at home, the terrorists have achieved part of their objective.
I think liberals have not assimilated to American Culture.
Or worse yet, reflect American culture.
Ultralight
3-22-16, 3:41pm
Or worse yet, reflect American culture.
As a liberal I can tell you that we all know we go roughly against the grain. America is a conservative place.
As a liberal I can tell you that we all know we go roughly against the grain. America is a conservative place.
I don't think that's the case. It's more of a yin and yang thing. The pendulum swings back and forth. We seem to be swinging left at the moment.
Ultralight
3-22-16, 3:54pm
I don't think that's the case. It's more of a yin and yang thing. The pendulum swings back and forth. We seem to be swinging left at the moment.
Really? You sure have low standards for what qualifies as liberal culture.
Provided they aren't committing crimes, nothing. To the extent they are, treat them as criminals.
"Unassimilated" sounds like a Fox talking point. I doubt there are enough "unassimilated" (or unassimilating) immigrants in this country to fit into the average storage unit. I bet immigrant kids pick out a favorite NFL team as soon as they set foot on US soil, and continue adopting what passes for culture here from there.
"Unassimilated" sounds like a Fox talking point.
I would love to be unassimilated. Not a big fan of being a member of the Borg collective.
Teacher Terry
3-22-16, 4:38pm
Well i won't have to worry about it for awhile because we have all our trips for this year planned. Regardless it is scary stuff.
San Francisco had cops on a lot of the muni transit trains today, some with K-9 officers as well. They must've dragged out every K-9 they had because the one on my train this afternoon was obviously old enough to be sitting on the porch in a rocking chair collecting social security. He was a german sheppard with a lot of gray hair and fairly significant hip dysplasia. I assume he could still smell bombs just fine though.
Like roughly 50% of my weeks I have to get on airplanes the next three weeks. Fortunately I'm not really any more concerned about my safety than I was yesterday. Of all the airplanes and airports in this country and the world the chance that I'll be in the wrong one at the wrong time is vanishingly small. I suppose I should give myself extra time to get through security though...
Really? You sure have low standards for what qualifies as liberal culture.
Not at all. People who don't agree with me aren't necessarily idiots.
I don't think there's any question the country is drifting leftward. The new hostility to free trade. The ACA. The clamp-down on campus speech that doesn't comply with liberal orthodoxy. The substantial minority enthusiastically in support of Bernie Sanders. The big-government solutions proposed by the GOP front-runner. The politically managed wealth redistribution programs proposed by both Democratic candidates. The apparent schism in the Republican Party between the populists and the movement conservatives. The increased view of "rights" as obligations for the taxpayers to deliver on rather than as limitations on government's power over the individual. Serious proposals to make the First and Second Amendments less comprehensive. Dogs and cats living together.
We may not be Denmark yet, but there seems to be more sentiment to move us in that direction than there was twenty years ago.
Ultralight
3-23-16, 10:06am
Denmark is dreamy!
"Unassimilated" sounds like a Fox talking point. I doubt there are enough "unassimilated" (or unassimilating) immigrants in this country to fit into the average storage unit. I bet immigrant kids pick out a favorite NFL team as soon as they set foot on US soil, and continue adopting what passes for culture here from there.
I view that as a strength of the US relative to Europe. Sneer all you like at the culture, but it seems to have some level of attractiveness.
Miss Cellane
3-23-16, 10:12am
That may be true, but in my world several co-workers are scheduled to be in Brussels next month to conduct factory acceptance tests on custom built equipment. They'll be utilizing the same airport and subways as today's attacks. Their family and friends can't help but worry.
The co-workers are likely to be safer now, after the attack, because the military and law enforcement will be on higher alert and more watchful.
One of my brothers works for the DOD in Ankara, Turkey. His office building is about 200 yards from where the first bombing of the year took place in February. He jokes that he's been closer to danger now that he's a civilian than he ever was in his 32 years in the military.
Way back, when the first war with Iraq started, I was in London for the school year in charge of a group of college kids studying abroad. They were all panicked that there would be some sort of terrorist activity in London, because the UK was also sending troops. To the point that some were afraid to leave the flats. Many wanted to go home, but the State Department and the US Embassy were telling us to stay put--that there was a far greater threat of attack to airplanes than if we just went about our normal lives in London. And as I pointed out to the kids, all around them, UK citizens were under the same threat, but were just going about their daily lives. Because they had no place to run to, the way we might run back to the States.
32,658 people were killed worldwide by terrorism in 2015.
12,942 people were killed with guns in the US in 2015.
33,561 people were killed in car crashes in the US in 2012 (the most recent year I could find).
112,803 people were killed in unintentional accidents in the US in 2013.
So the chance of getting killed by a terrorist is about the same as getting killed by getting in a car and driving.
I mean, yes, I do get why people are concerned about travel to Europe right now. Turkey has had three bombings this year alone, not that they've gotten much press coverage. But realistically, driving to the airport is more dangerous.
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-16, 10:16am
Yeah, I would be for that too. We're great at meddling!True that. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-16, 10:26am
I think liberals have not assimilated to American Culture.Very interesting comment. I have to say as a human, and also to a lesser degree as a liberal, there is much about US culture I have had no choice but to reject. Those who know my posts probably can remember my points without my going into them on a thread about the horrific attacks yesterday. I don't have much light to shed on this though I do find it ironic.......for years my family in Austria has worried about my living in the US for many reasons I've already covered.....now I'm worried about their safety in Austria. I sure didn't see that one coming! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-16, 10:31am
Are you kidding? Are all those angry people who are supporting Trump liberals? I see liberals as people who don't resent things that they actually should. Everything is OK with them. Anyone is OK with them. It's all good. Everything.Everything is not OK with this liberal.....and never has been since around the age of 9. It's not all good for me......no offense, I just want to make it clear that I don't fit this demographic. Seriously......if I did would I continue to offshore so much to Mexico and feel so morally and ethically compelled to do so? Rob
Ultralight
3-23-16, 10:37am
Everything is not OK with this liberal.....and never has been sinve around the age of 9. It's not all good for me......no offense, I just want to make it clear that I don't fit this demographic. Seriously......if I did would I continue to offshore so much to Mexico and feel so morally and ethically compelled to do so? Rob
She obviously holds many misconceptions about liberals and liberalism.
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-16, 10:39am
I'm a little confused Alan. Are you saying you think American liberals have become violent and resentful against immigrants who are peaceful?I am a liberal. My husband is a peaceful immigrant - though he does see much wrong with the US. My neighbors at the house I co-own are peaceful people....I can say this by virtue of having lived around them for years. What has stirred them up however is racial profiling and police brutality......and the US side, at least in my neighborhood, drew first blood. I will never forgive or forget this as I believe in human dignity. My overall point here though? A new angle. Nothing is as simple as the OP's question here.......these issues are complex with many layers and truth often exists where you don't expect it to. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-16, 10:41am
She obviously holds many misconceptions about liberals and liberalism.He......I'm of the male persuasion last time I checked lol. Rob
Ultralight
3-23-16, 10:43am
He......I'm of the male persuasion last time I checked lol. Rob
I was referring to the person's whose post you were responding to. haha
Though I do think that what it means to be a liberal is varied by person. So we all likely hold misconceptions about it.
gimmethesimplelife
3-23-16, 10:51am
I was referring to the person's whose post you were responding to. haha
Though I do think that what it means to be a liberal is varied by person. So we all likely hold misconceptions about it.Ah....sorry Ultralite Angler, I didn't catch that. And I agree.....liberal to this liberal may very well not be the same to many others......it's not just one easy definition. Rob
She obviously holds many misconceptions about liberals and liberalism.
No, I don't think I hold "many" misconceptions about liberals. I have many in my family. I'm a hybrid......some liberal views, some conservative.....whatever that means. Most of the liberals I'm around and hear about, want peace and love and accept everyone and everything. Some are almost flexible to a fault. (whereas conservatives tend to not be acceptable).
Well, I'd like peace and love......but that's not reality. Do I want better control of who comes and goes out our country? Yes! Do I think our government gets too involved in other countries' messes.......Yes! Maybe I'm just around too many liberals......who are politically correct all the time. I think this country has problems that we're not addressing and we deny them or call them something else. We want everyone to be the same.......and they're just not. And sometimes in trying to be "fair"......we put everyone at greater risk.
I wasn't saying all Muslims should be ejected from countries. I'm saying that if you want to move to a country......then you should find many things about that country that you like, and you're not going to kill people for being different than you.
I think people who come here should be expected to speak English. But many "liberals" think that everything is okay. If you want to speak another language and can't communicate with the bank teller, then we should get more tellers who speak all languages. If you can't understand english directions, then we should put several different language instructions everywhere. I view our country as a body. I like to liken situations to bodies. What if our immune system began to accept every antigen, bacterium, virus, etc., with open arms, what would happen? Soon, the original body would be gone.
I'm rambling...........
Our beliefs are on a continuum. Some are here, some are there, some are in the middle. I don't feel safe when we accept everyone without question........when we pay people welfare because they can't find jobs, but we send all our jobs to China, or hire people from other countries to come here and work. It's all messed up. This total acceptance and encouragement of allowing all people from everywhere to come here, IMHO, is asking for a lot of problems. I get a little irritated when I say something and certain people respond as though I'm a Nazi. You really don't know me at all.
Refugees coming to the US are extensively screened:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/11/20/infographic-screening-process-refugee-entry-united-states
Williamsmith
3-23-16, 1:41pm
Refugees coming to the US are extensively screened:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/11/20/infographic-screening-process-refugee-entry-united-states
We can do all that and support quite a huge expensive bureaucracy or we can just say no.
Access Denied!
Ultralight
3-23-16, 1:45pm
We can do all that and support quite a huge expensive bureaucracy or we can just say no.
Access Denied!
Give me a visual of what America would look like with an "access denied" policy.
No, I don't think I hold "many" misconceptions about liberals. I have many in my family. I'm a hybrid......some liberal views, some conservative.....whatever that means. Most of the liberals I'm around and hear about, want peace and love and accept everyone and everything. Some are almost flexible to a fault. (whereas conservatives tend to not be acceptable).
Well, I'd like peace and love......but that's not reality. Do I want better control of who comes and goes out our country? Yes! Do I think our government gets too involved in other countries' messes.......Yes! Maybe I'm just around too many liberals......who are politically correct all the time. I think this country has problems that we're not addressing and we deny them or call them something else. We want everyone to be the same.......and they're just not. And sometimes in trying to be "fair"......we put everyone at greater risk.
I wasn't saying all Muslims should be ejected from countries. I'm saying that if you want to move to a country......then you should find many things about that country that you like, and you're not going to kill people for being different than you.
I think people who come here should be expected to speak English. But many "liberals" think that everything is okay. If you want to speak another language and can't communicate with the bank teller, then we should get more tellers who speak all languages. If you can't understand english directions, then we should put several different language instructions everywhere. I view our country as a body. I like to liken situations to bodies. What if our immune system began to accept every antigen, bacterium, virus, etc., with open arms, what would happen? Soon, the original body would be gone.
I'm rambling...........
Our beliefs are on a continuum. Some are here, some are there, some are in the middle. I don't feel safe when we accept everyone without question........when we pay people welfare because they can't find jobs, but we send all our jobs to China, or hire people from other countries to come here and work. It's all messed up. This total acceptance and encouragement of allowing all people from everywhere to come here, IMHO, is asking for a lot of problems. I get a little irritated when I say something and certain people respond as though I'm a Nazi. You really don't know me at all.
I guess where we differ is that I don't consider immigrants to be viruses that need to be fended off by our country/body. And I don't care if a bank wants to hire Chinese speaking tellers because they think that will help them gain new customers who want that service. And I don't care if the bus has a sign that says 'el operador Abrira la Puerta '. Does it really cost the transit company more money to be helpful and print a sign in two languages so that more people can get the message? My first generation in the US ancestors never learned English. The only English my German great grandmother ever spoke was 'wanna cookie?' To her grandchildren.
Give me a visual of what America would look like with an "access denied" policy.
http://www.retroweb.com/40acres/town_northside_shops_andy_1_1024.jpg
or
https://www.crowcanyon.org/EducationProducts/pueblo_history_kids/images/modern_taos_pueblo.jpg
Teacher Terry
3-23-16, 2:24pm
I am a liberal and I agree that if you come here you need to learn English and should not expect signs in other languages. My Mom's family came from Germany and learned English. My DIL did not know any English when she arrived from Poland. She was a nanny to a 4 yo from a Polish family and taught her french and the 4yo taught her English. Watching TV also helped. They hired her because they wanted their daughter to learn French. 10 years later my DIL speaks perfect English.I would not move to another country and expect them to put signs in English, etc.
Ultralight
3-23-16, 2:27pm
With an "access denied" policy then who would fill all the positions in the US professorate? In the major research hospitals? The farmers' fields? The public university classes? And so on...
iris lilies
3-23-16, 2:32pm
I am a liberal and I agree that if you come here you need to learn English and should not expect signs in other languages. My Mom's family came from Germany and learned English. My DIL did not know any English when she arrived from Poland. She was a nanny to a 4 yo from a Polish family and taught her french and the 4yo taught her English. Watching TV also helped. They hired her because they wanted their daughter to learn French. 10 years later my DIL speaks perfect English.I would not move to another country and expect them to put signs in English, etc.
My social worker friend was talking about her Latino friends who are "very hard working" and the father of her young friend took the US citizenship in Spanish. This is what she said. I thought these tests were always in English, but what do I know.
The larger point of her conversation was to tell me that she had just signed on to sponsor her younger friend. I asked what "sponsorship" meant and she said it meant being financially responsible for them if they couldn't support themselves. She gushed saying that would not ever happen because they are so hard working and etc.
I am thinking to myself "well, what if she came down with MS? or some other debilitating disease? How would she be able to do hard work and how will that work for you?" but that is none of my business. And in actual practice, I'll bet that the US doesn't go after "sponsors" anyway. Its all just another tic on the taxpayer's bill.
Teacher Terry
3-23-16, 2:36pm
IL: I bet they do go after sponsors. You can not come here and go on social programs. When my DIL got a fiancee visa to marry my son both him and I had to sign that we would support her if she couldn't support herself because she was not allowed on social programs. I would sign for family but never a friend.
Ultralight
3-23-16, 2:37pm
I am leery to go along with "everyone speak every language." That is just too complicated.
But Spanish is so, so common in the US that I am open to it becoming a second national language (de facto or otherwise). And it is not that hard to learn the basics of it.
Ultralight
3-23-16, 2:38pm
IL: I bet they do go after sponsors. You can not come here and go on social programs. When my DIL got a fiancee visa to marry my son both him and I had to sign that we would support her if she couldn't support herself because she was not allowed on social programs. I would sign for family but never a friend.
Which nation was she from?
I am a liberal and I agree that if you come here you need to learn English and should not expect signs in other languages.
I don't quite get the language thing, except as an exercise in linguistic fascism. I grew up in a part of Ohio where most folks spoke German and/or Pennsylvania Dutch, and it harmed nobody. I have traveled frequently to regions of the US where in small villages Spanish is spoken, as it has been for hundreds of years before the US even got there... I have spent lots of time in various Native American/First Nations communities, and heard some of the stories of the efforts to take their children off to white schools to stamp out their languages and cultures.
Should white people in Hawaii be forced to use Hawaiian instead of English? Should I have to use Swinomish or Salish when I travel through the Swinomish nation that adjoins my county that I have to drive through now-and-then?
Piffle.
I am leery to go along with "everyone speak every language." That is just too complicated.
The market will decide. I have varying degrees of proficiency with about a dozen languages, but I only use a few of them, and mostly English. Doesn't bother me a bit.
Heck, this year I'm learning Coptic, which I expect I'll never get to use in polite conversation.
Teacher Terry
3-23-16, 2:46pm
I don't think you should expect a country to provide translators or put things in other languages. My DIL speaks 5 languages and that is awesome. My Mom grew up in a house speaking English and German. I don't care what language people speak as long as our country is not paying for things to be written in other languages.
iris lilies
3-23-16, 2:48pm
IL: I bet they do go after sponsors. You can not come here and go on social programs. When my DIL got a fiancee visa to marry my son both him and I had to sign that we would support her if she couldn't support herself because she was not allowed on social programs. I would sign for family but never a friend.
I don't think that is prudent of my friend, either, but chances are that it will all be ok.
I don't care what language people speak as long as our country is not paying for things to be written in other languages.
I was unaware that the United States had an official language at the federal level.
iris lilies
3-23-16, 2:49pm
Which nation was she from?
Don't remember, but not Mexico. South America some place.
Teacher Terry
3-23-16, 2:51pm
But as you pointed out anything can happen (illness, accident, etc). I knew someone that went to Mexico for a vacation and a driver out of control ran up the sidewalk and hit him and he lost both his legs. Hopefully everything will be fine.
Ultralight
3-23-16, 3:02pm
I find it interesting how much some people from some other countries really, really want to come to the US.
Back when I was still dating, and mostly via the internet, I'd occasionally get messages from women in Asian or African nations.
There plan was to meet a guy on the internet, visit him/have him visit them, fall in love, get married, and thereby get some kind of immigration document that allows them to come to the US and stay for life.
After very brief conversations, these women all realized I was so, so not the guy to do all this with. haha
I wished them well and we both moved on to other profiles on the dating sites.
But I have stayed in contact with two of these women -- one from Kenya and the other from Cambodia. We discuss a variety of topics, but they continue to update me on their search for an American man.
They both really want to leave their respective nations and they seem willing to marry someone they have not known very long and move away from everything and everyone they know just to come to the US.
I find it interesting how much some people from some other countries really, really want to come to the US.
Back when I was still dating, and mostly via the internet, I'd occasionally get messages from women in Asian or African nations.
There plan was to meet a guy on the internet, visit him/have him visit them, fall in love, get married, and thereby get some kind of immigration document that allows them to come to the US and stay for life.
After very brief conversations, these women all realized I was so, so not the guy to do all this with. haha
I wished them well and we both moved on to other profiles on the dating sites.
But I have stayed in contact with two of these women -- one from Kenya and the other from Cambodia. We discuss a variety of topics, but they continue to update me on their search for an American man.
They both really want to leave their respective nations and they seem willing to marry someone they have not known very long and move away from everything and everyone they know just to come to the US.
Sure......why wouldn't they want to come.......to a rich place that has everything? (except all the poor people who need welfare to eat and no job). But come one! Come all!
I am leery to go along with "everyone speak every language." That is just too complicated.
But Spanish is so, so common in the US that I am open to it becoming a second national language (de facto or otherwise). And it is not that hard to learn the basics of it.
I would like to see us return to the time when educated people were expected to communicate in Latin and left the common rabble to their vulgar babble.
I don't quite get the language thing, except as an exercise in linguistic fascism. I grew up in a part of Ohio where most folks spoke German and/or Pennsylvania Dutch, and it harmed nobody. I have traveled frequently to regions of the US where in small villages Spanish is spoken, as it has been for hundreds of years before the US even got there... I have spent lots of time in various Native American/First Nations communities, and heard some of the stories of the efforts to take their children off to white schools to stamp out their languages and cultures.
Should white people in Hawaii be forced to use Hawaiian instead of English? Should I have to use Swinomish or Salish when I travel through the Swinomish nation that adjoins my county that I have to drive through now-and-then?
Piffle.
And Piffle to you bae. You're making poor comparisons. What if the Swinomish or Salish lived right next to you, but they refused to learn English? And they demanded that their kids' teacher taught them in Swinomish, and they wanted ferry drivers to speak it, and the local grocery, etc.?
With an "access denied" policy then who would fill all the positions in the US professorate? In the major research hospitals? The farmers' fields? The public university classes? And so on...
Maybe we need all those people because we've become an ever-less bright nation. Who cares about education and being intelligent? And why do we import people to work in the fields, when our own citizens can't find a job and are on welfare?
We are set up in a very weird way. And I don't think it's doing very well.
Ultralight
3-23-16, 3:36pm
Sure......why wouldn't they want to come.......to a rich place that has everything? (except all the poor people who need welfare to eat and no job). But come one! Come all!
You don't have to worry about me bringing anyone over here, CathyA. These women have no interest in a guy who does not want kids and has almost no desire for material possessions. haha
Ultralight
3-23-16, 3:39pm
Maybe we need all those people because we've become an ever-less bright nation. Who cares about education and being intelligent? And why do we import people to work in the fields, when our own citizens can't find a job and are on welfare?
We are set up in a very weird way. And I don't think it's doing very well.
Farm work and other tough manual labor is seen as distasteful and brutish by most all Americans, especially those middle class and up.
As for the medical researchers and so forth, maybe Americans just ain't got the juice to make it through all that learnin' and such.
And Piffle to you bae. You're making poor comparisons. What if the Swinomish or Salish lived right next to you, but they refused to learn English? And they demanded that their kids' teacher taught them in Swinomish, and they wanted ferry drivers to speak it, and the local grocery, etc.?
I'd be fine with any voluntary activities taking place on their own land. They were after all here first, and they have treaties granting them rights as a sorta-kinda-nation. And as it happens, they get to pass their own laws governing behaviour on their lands. They even have their own police and justice system. If they want their schools to teach their kids their own language and culture, I'm OK with that. Especially since we used to abduct native American children, truck them off to residential schools, and brutally stamp our culture onto them.
If there were a sufficient population of Coast Salish speakers around here, I'm sure even the English-speaking European immigrants would find it prudent to offer services in those languages.
Teacher Terry
3-23-16, 3:43pm
My DIL came from Poland to here for 2 years to work and see the country. She always wanted to go back home. She met my son on a train about 2 months before she was leaving. He was a confirmed bachelor at 33. He calls me after meeting her and says he met the woman he will marry. I was shocked. She went back home and they dated for 3 years meeting in other countries. She said most of the Polish women wanted to meet an American and stay but she did not. It was a big decision for her to move here. My son would be willing to live in Poland but there are not enough jobs for the people that are there.
Maybe we need all those people because we've become an ever-less bright nation. Who cares about education and being intelligent? And why do we import people to work in the fields, when our own citizens can't find a job and are on welfare?
When I was hiring engineers and scientists for a particular field a few years ago, there simply wasn't a sufficient supply of people with the needed specializations here in the US. The only way to get them was to import them, or to outsource the work to wherever they lived. Growing a local supply would have taken too long, though we sponsored research programs and positions here in the US to get that started - the lead-time for payoff was however 4-8 years.
I'd be fine with any voluntary activities taking place on their own land. They were after all here first, and they have treaties granting them rights as a sorta-kinda-nation. And as it happens, they get to pass their own laws governing behaviour on their lands. They even have their own police and justice system. If they want their schools to teach their kids their own language and culture, I'm OK with that. Especially since we used to abduct native American children, truck them off to residential schools, and brutally stamp our culture onto them.
If there were a sufficient population of Coast Salish speakers around here, I'm sure even the English-speaking European immigrants would find it prudent to offer services in those languages.
Like I said.........that's different than groups of people coming here and populating all over the country, and demanding they have their own culture and not "assimilating". We'd essentially grow to not be "united" anymore. Sure, it's nice to have an assortment of cultures, if everyone understands most of the rules. But if they're here to have the freedom to cause problems........well, then they should go elsewhere and not be tolerated.
I'm thinking of the problems that Brussels and France are having with fairly aggressive/uncooperative communities of middle easterns. Why were they even allowed to come and grow and then cause problems? And I'm not talking about communities of different cultures who, for the most part, get along.
And some countries that were so "liberal" about letting large amounts of immigrants in, are now having to rethink things. Duh!
I feel that liberals think with their hearts most of all. MANY times that's great!!...........other times, not so much.
Williamsmith
3-24-16, 6:36am
Liberalism isn't very popular at the scene of a terrorist attack.
Ultralight
3-24-16, 7:01am
Liberalism isn't very popular at the scene of a terrorist attack.
Right...
Liberalism = Letting terrorists do horrible stuff
Conservativism = Fighting terrorists
This is nonsense.
Trivia question: Under which President's watch did Osama Bin Laden end up in a body bag?
Williamsmith
3-24-16, 8:22am
Right...
Liberalism = Letting terrorists do horrible stuff
Conservativism = Fighting terrorists
This is nonsense.
Trivia question: Under which President's watch did Osama Bin Laden end up in a body bag?
Osama Bin Laden is dead?
Teacher Terry
3-24-16, 2:01pm
The ski resorts depend on people coming from other countries to fill the menial positions. The locals don't want them. Also read that Brussels does not have enough police and they belong to many different agencies so coordination is difficult. Saw on the news that the wounded have been taken to military hospitals because the wounds are like that found in war. Also the bombs were full of nails, etc. They said it will take a long time to identify all the victims because there are pieces of people everywhere. For the people that survived that saw that type of thing I can not even imagine the trauma they are going to experience.
gimmethesimplelife
3-24-16, 11:15pm
The ski resorts depend on people coming from other countries to fill the menial positions. The locals don't want them. Also read that Brussels does not have enough police and they belong to many different agencies so coordination is difficult. Saw on the news that the wounded have been taken to military hospitals because the wounds are like that found in war. Also the bombs were full of nails, etc. They said it will take a long time to identify all the victims because there are pieces of people everywhere. For the people that survived that saw that type of thing I can not even imagine the trauma they are going to experience.Not to take one bit from anything you have posted.....I've always had such respect for Holocaust survivors. How they endured that level of trauma and moved on with life I don't know. But yes.....to have the illusion of peace shattered by being injured in the Brussels attacks......trauma for life. Rob
Williamsmith
3-25-16, 1:25pm
I wonder how Obama feels about watching baseball in Cuba and dancing the Tango in Argentina while Americans were being blown to bits in Belgium. Kinda bugs me.
Teacher Terry
3-25-16, 1:32pm
Gimme: I have read numerous moving books on the Holocaust such as: Night, Man's Search for Meaning and All But My Life. I have also been to the concentration camps in Poland-Aushwitz and Buchenwald and those camps are haunting. You can feel the people's souls and pain. I don't even know how to explain it. I am glad I went but would never go again. The survivors were very resilient indeed.
I wonder how Obama feels about watching baseball in Cuba and dancing the Tango in Argentina while Americans were being blown to bits in Belgium. Kinda bugs me.
I understand how you feel Williamsmith........but they had so much planned there for awhile, and I'm sure he didn't want to disappoint so many people. I'm sure he was in constant contact with people about the bombing.....and what could he do?
I can see both sides.
I just heard that an American brother and sister were both killed in the attack. I can't imagine the parents' grief.
I visited Dachau when I was younger and in Germany. It was extremely upsetting.
If President Obama had dropped everything and flown to Europe so he could stand around grieving and getting in the way, I'm sure the usual suspects would take him to task for cynically exploiting a photo op. As CathyA pointed out, he was on top of the situation and there was nothing he could do about it.
I wonder how Obama feels about watching baseball in Cuba and dancing the Tango in Argentina while Americans were being blown to bits in Belgium. Kinda bugs me.
But isn't that kind of typical American arrogance to assume we (our President) should be involved and in charge of everything that happens all over the world? I've been to that airport. It's kind of small, actually. He would have been in the way. And you know what? They probably didn't need him to sweep up glass, or whatever.
Now, tell me how you feel about Dick Cheney having his feet up on the desk as the twin towers came crashing down? Literally.
Williamsmith
3-25-16, 6:49pm
But isn't that kind of typical American arrogance to assume we (our President) should be involved and in charge of everything that happens all over the world? I've been to that airport. It's kind of small, actually. He would have been in the way. And you know what? They probably didn't need him to sweep up glass, or whatever.
Now, tell me how you feel about Dick Cheney having his feet up on the desk as the twin towers came crashing down? Literally.
Its funny....you all assume he needed to go do something or take a photo op........just go home and dont be seen yucking it up with a murderous dictator. Now so much to ask. Chaney was horrible, agreed.
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