View Full Version : boundaries and mom, just fed up
Okay the weirdest thing has triggered my old stuff with my mom. She has a good friend who is apparently doing a family tree for us. I already think that is a little weird, but whatever. My younger siblings know this couple but I was out the door going to college about that time. It was also the time when I was in a 'punky phase' so there are no photos of me for about 2 years. My interactions have been few with this couple, last time we had a family reunion that included them, and my parents 50th anniversary they came. Basically they drink and talk about drinking, I think that is pretty boring and I will admit some judgment around drinking. Meanwhile this is something she is doing to be nice for my mom.
So now they need my divorce date, something like 12 years ago, for her family tree of us. I just don't want to give it to her. Probably unreasonable but it really is bugging me. Most of my issues with my mom are around boundaries, and I keep making peace with it and still getting along with everyone. I show up to all the events, don't throw pissy fits, put the past behind me. But this just hit a nerve. I already know my mom talks about everything to everyone. If I want it private I just don't tell her. Meanwhile I probably talk to her too much for my personal privacy settings. I am very private, so I should keep it to myself if I don't want the book club and water aerobics to know my life. I don't define myself by my divorce, I really don't care, and I really don't want to spend my time to go through old paperwork to figure out when the 2 year process of lawyers and mediators and crap actually ended. I was also supposed to send photos which I didn't have time for, if my mom has photos that is fine. I already accept the bag of hand me downs every single f**ing visit for the last 30 years! Pretty much it goes to goodwill as she walks out the door. Then the disposable crap and everything she brings EVERY time, plus about 25 years of giving my kids complete Easter baskets and Christmas stockings that trumped mine, buying them new clothes for all the family photos the entire time they were growing up (yes I kept saying no, but put family peace and her good intentions ahead of it all the time).
To even start this conversation is likely to go into a lot of other areas, like boundaries and privacy. I need to go to meditation tonight and see if I can calm down.
Give her the wrong date. ;)
Give her the wrong date. ;)
Now that is just passive aggressive, but tempting ;) I would rather have an argument
Well, if it is your mom asking, just say you are too busy to track down exact dates and photos, etc. Keep repeating as necessary. Don't make up any additional excuses or it will be a constant barrage. Just repeat you are too busy...... No matter what she says, Sorry mom, I am just too busy.......
Separate issues: I really suggest you need something whether meditation or counseling to get over the past. I only know you from SLForums but it feels like almost every time you mention your mom it comes around eventually to all the things you disliked about her past actions.
Could you just sign your mom off?
Your divorce is already public information and was recorded at the local court house and in the local newspaper, and can easily be retrieved for the family tree. If not from you, then through other records. I've gotten these, and other records, many times in the past doing genealogy. It would just be simpler to get it from you, except somehow this really rattles your cage due to outstanding ancient family issues. It's a part of the "story" of your family, just like birth dates, death dates, marriages, baptisms, etc. It certainly shouldn't be so confrontational.
If you would have given the date when asked, I bet this would have all been over with. But instead, you have all this pent up angst..... It seems rather silly to me.
I would just tell her that you prefer not to give that information. I can relate on two levels:
--My DIL is extremely private. She won't let me have my GS's SS# (which is a moot point now because I no longer need it). She won't let any of us post pictures of GS on Facebook. I'm totally fine with that. It's her business, and her child, and I think she's probably right in keeping him away from Facebook attention. So even though she's far more private than I am, I respect her opinion and her right to whatever level of privacy she's comfortable with. That's her right, just like it's totally your right to refuse to give information to your mother's friend.
--I also am working on an Ancestry.com tree. In fact, I just wrote to my brother today asking him if he prefers to be listed under his biological parents (my aunt and uncle made him an orphan when they died very young) or under my parents, with whom he lived his life. His life with my parents is a sensitive topic and not in a good way, so I don't know what he's going to say, but whatever it is, it's fine with me. It's his life.
So, I don't think it's a big deal for your mother to be interested in creating a family tree--and I don't think it's a boundary issue unless she gets upset that you won't provide the information. I also believe in your right to refuse, and I'd just tell them it has to do with your desire for privacy. Period.
I agree with lessisbest; it's a matter of public record. A complete family history should include it. When I was researching my family, I was surprised to find that my grandmother's parents and my grandfather's grandparents were both divorced, and sufficient information to surmise why. There's enough drama in life without going out of your way to create it.
One of my shirt-tail relatives was working on a genealogy and my mother wouldn't cooperate because of some long-standing beef with siblings--so silly. Enough family history is lost through the years without people demurring and stonewalling. At least that's the way I perceive it--from a genealogist's perspective.
If not from you, then through other records.
I dunno, my mortgage amount and when I paid it off is in public records, but something I've not shared with my mother because I know she would tell everyone she knows that I paid it off early. I got the indication from the OP that her mother is one to blab to everyone also. Just because something is in public records, doesn't mean I want to share it with anyone and everyone. Just another viewpoint.
Sign. Her. Off.
What do you mean? Disown her? I don't get it.
Yeah, cut ties.
Oh, you mean because she did the unthinkable?...
Then the disposable crap and everything she brings EVERY time, plus about 25 years of giving my kids complete Easter baskets and Christmas stockings that trumped mine, buying them new clothes for all the family photos the entire time they were growing up
ZG, I'm not minimizing your annoyance here. All parents can be annoying, and they all can override or dismiss what we want.
I'm addressing this comment mainly to ULA..you know what? My father didn't give me outsized Easter baskets, or new clothes for pictures. He cut US out of his life and he chose alcohol over us, and the only thing he gave me after that was a card that said he loved me. And if I could have him back to today I'd grab that chance and I'd embrace him with joy.
Parents aren't perfect, and unless we've been cruel and abusive, try to cut us some slack, OK?
I think UltraliteAngler just likes to cast a fly into the stream and wait for a strike.
What you say is, of course, the rational way to look at parenting--nobody's perfect. And that includes the offspring of these "unspeakable" families. It's that "serpent's tooth" thing again. So glad I didn't breed...
I'm just feeling grateful right now, because my son is coming down at the end of this week from VT for a visit, and he decided to pay an extra $130 to extend his trip another day because he knows the time with us will go too fast.
Yes, I'm feeling mighty grateful.
Yeah I am calming down, ate a snack, played with kids in afternoon program.
I really wouldn't have an issue so much if my mom was asking about this, but I have an issue that her friend is asking. All these people who really don't know me at all seem to know plenty about my life through my mom. I take a deep breath because this is important to her, but sometimes I just am not really into taking a deep breath today. We had one wonderful family vacation when my parents rented a house at the beach at South Haven, MI and as many of us who could join in came out. I remember sitting there with another couple that my parents knew forever, I had babysat the kids over many years when I was young. Finally after something like 5 hours of hanging out Mr. M looks at me and says 'wait, you are nothing like your mom', yup. It was okay but I felt some sadness that these people don't know me at all.
Honestly if this is my biggest issue with my mom, even the old angsty issues, that would not be anything worth cutting them out of my life. But other than that not taking the bait.
I've done some genealogy research for friends of mine; never thought anything of it. You could just remind your mom you like to keep your information private, and let her friend look up the divorce records on line. Drama averted.
I've done some genealogy research for friends of mine; never thought anything of it. You could just remind your mom you like to keep your information private, and let her friend look up the divorce records on line. Drama averted.
I never thought of it before, so this isn't that weird after all? I kinda want to know about my grandpa's family, they are all dead so it is safe.
I am thinking the best way is probably tell my mom that this is a bit uncomfortable since I have never heard of people doing genealogy for anyone else. And actually I would have liked to do it at some point. Then say I might be able to find it this week but I won't be home until 7 at the earliest all week so Saturday is the best we can hope for. Actually encouraging people to look me up online is more creepy, even though I know it is out there
I never thought of it before, so this isn't that weird after all? I kinda want to know about my grandpa's family, they are all dead so it is safe.
I am thinking the best way is probably tell my mom that this is a bit uncomfortable since I have never heard of people doing genealogy for anyone else. And actually I would have liked to do it at some point. Then say I might be able to find it this week but I won't be home until 7 at the earliest all week so Saturday is the best we can hope for. Actually encouraging people to look me up online is more creepy, even though I know it is out there
There are people who look up strangers' information for a living; I've thought hiring one--I have a couple of ancestors with dodgy pasts that I'm keen to dig up the dirt on :~) I don't think it's weird, your mom's friend may be more familiar with on-line sources, have an ancestry.com account or access to Mormon records, or the like. Genealogy is fascinating (BTW, Who Do You Think You Are is on TLC again--Sunday nights at nine, delving into celebrity ancestry, FWIW.) but it can be addictive. Don't say I didn't warn you.
ZG, just a different viewpoint. Somehow, I don't think it is about the divorce date at all. IMHO, it is more about trying to feel in control of your life and feeling someone else is intruding over whom you have no control.
Wondering what would work to give you back a sense of being in control of your life in general? What has given you the feeling of being in control in the past? Some people save money with a chart to show the control, some a strict diet, some take fitness classes and never miss or run each day? Whatever, it works for them.
iris lilies
4-4-16, 11:01pm
ZG, just a different viewpoint. Somehow, I don't think it is about the divorce date at all. IMHO, it is more about trying to feel in control of your life and feeling someone else is intruding over whom you have no control....
I can see this. I might be annoyed that crap from my past is dredged up and by people who have no reason to involve themselves in it. And I might even be annoyed that their query made ME think about my divorce and perhaps judgy-ness fem parental units and their friends at the time.
But OP's divorce is a simple fact. I personally think it is kind of stupid that the researcher cant use an estimated date, gleaned from Zoe Girl's mother. Surely the mom could come up with an estimated year, the month and day isnt terribly important. Now, birth dates and marriage dates are more important, especially if children issue from marriages.
Teacher Terry
4-4-16, 11:42pm
UL: parents and people are not disposable. If you think they are it will be a sad life. Yes in cases of extreme abuse, etc but otherwise no grow up your childhood is done and it is up to you to quit blaming your parents and have the life you want.
Zoe girl: Let them look up the date-it is public record. Sometimes difficult people have things to teach us:))
I had a nice talk with my aunt, the one my parents don't like, and we always agree to just not mention to my mom that we are talking. It is very rarely about her. But she was a good person to talk to. We can have these conversations that are balanced, not going to the 'mom is such a terrible person' (which I don't believe) or the route of ' it matters to mom and now her friend so I must do it or feel guilty'. Basically my mom is not someone who notices other people's emotions very often. My aunt doesn't spend time with her other than holidays because my mom just runs over people.
So really this isn't about how anyone else feels or thinks I should feel. It is simply that I do not want to share this, and I really don't want to spend my time digging up a meaningless date. So I texted my mom and told her the earliest I could get to it was Saturday however I would rather it was left off because it made me uncomfortable. She responded fine, she can put divorced. If they searched the internet now for the date I would consider it a problem since I made my feelings known. If they had done all this before and never checked with me I may feel awkward but I wouldn't consider it a problem.
If people want to research my family history go find out about all the dead people, leave me out of it until I am dead. It simply feels creepy to have someone researching my life right now.
I think you are actually in the mainstream norm on this one. I do a lot of geneological research and it is considered uncouth and unkosher to put dates like that on living people without their consent. Dead people are fair game, living people's details are considered private and are not visible unless the person allows it to be so.
Thank you! I know I can't be the only one who feels weird about being shared on a family tree by a non-family member while still living. I don't feel it is her business and not even my mom's. All the stories aside, it is an insensitive question to ask, especially in the 'mom tone' like did I write a thank you letter to grandma. Sometimes we ask insensitive questions, then we notice the body language or tone of the other person and drop it and/or apologize. But I am handling the anger/hurt part of this right now. It is not being asked to be supportive or caring or even kind, it is just to fill in a little blank on a sheet by someone who I have never had a real conversation with (sorry talking about drinking is NOT a conversation)
ZG, you took back control of the whole question. Well done! Good that you have the aunt to talk things through with you. Now let it all go. It is done and water under the bridge. If anyone brings it up again, simply say,"I dealt with it and there is nothing further to discuss."
UL: parents and people are not disposable. If you think they are it will be a sad life. Yes in cases of extreme abuse, etc but otherwise no grow up your childhood is done and it is up to you to quit blaming your parents and have the life you want.
I was using hyperbole to illustrate that ZG's problem was really not that bad.
I say: "Just cut all ties!"
Then people can say: "well it is not that bad!"
And then the situation is put into a more accurate perspective.
There is a whole lot of space between cutting ties and just ignoring everything including your own emotions. That is actually the majority of our experience, somewhere in the middle where we can work on relationships or ourselves. It may be standing up and saying something, it may be talking it out with a friend, in serious cases it may be working with a counselor. It sounds very limited emotionally to put things in 2 extreme categories, and we are capable of so much more. From that much more we can build better and stronger relationships, take care of ourselves and get some of the junk out of the way so that we can be more caring and compassionate.
That is the leftover, we are not going to have a conversation, if we had any conversation based on past experience it would be about my mom's feelings or her friend's feelings. I doubt very much there is any space for my feelings or experience. And this brought up a lot of feelings for me,
I was using hyperbole to illustrate that ZG's problem was really not that bad.
I say: "Just cut all ties!"
Then people can say: "well it is not that bad!"
And then the situation is put into a more accurate perspective.
Sorry, UA! I'm embarrassed about my response to you now. After some of your posts about your dad, I assumed you really meant what you said.
:|(
Ah-ha, I looked up some information on the code of ethics around genealogy. It doesn't talk about living people, however there was some information about how to be respectful and ask permission when possible doing research. It also says that professionals should balance the freedom of information act with the right to privacy.
That is really the crux of it, no one contacted me or asked my permission, no one even considered this I am sure. To my family it would be totally not understood that I have a choice in this outside of what my mother says. Either they both never considered asking or my mom told her it was fine. Probably more like since I was born in this family and I haven't cut ties then my life is open. My mom's life is open, she will tell anyone anything. I am not the same. And I am also not the same because I don't share everything about my kids without their permission, they are adults and I can talk privately if I need to with a friend who also understands privacy, but this is their life and not mine.
Sorry, UA! I'm embarrassed about my response to you now. After some of your posts about your dad, I assumed you really meant what you said.
:|(
That is a risk I am willing to assume when I do wacky stuff that sort of makes sense -- not at the time -- but later. Usually... haha
iris lilies
4-5-16, 10:11am
There are people who look up strangers' information for a living; I've thought hiring one--I have a couple of ancestors with dodgy pasts that I'm keen to dig up the dirt on :~) I don't think it's weird, your mom's friend may be more familiar with on-line sources, have an ancestry.com account or access to Mormon records, or the like. Genealogy is fascinating (BTW, Who Do You Think You Are is on TLC again--Sunday nights at nine, delving into celebrity ancestry, FWIW.) but it can be addictive. Don't say I didn't warn you.
We loved that show when it was on network tv. I wonder if they have a dvd compilation? I will check.
We loved that show when it was on network tv. I wonder if they have a dvd compilation? I will check.
Doesn't your friend have cable? Invite yourself over, consult Comcast On Demand. The first episode was Aisha Tyler.
ToomuchStuff
4-5-16, 11:26am
It simply feels creepy to have someone researching my life right now.
You must get creeped out by all the marketing surrounding us as a society, then.
Also, remember the divorce isn't just about you, it also affected your spouse and kids. You might not want to provide that, but what if her grandkids gave her the information?
Ultralight
4-5-16, 11:33am
Also, remember the divorce isn't just about you, it also affected your spouse and kids.
Greatly underestimated.
iris lilies
4-5-16, 11:46am
Doesn't your friend have cable? Invite yourself over, consult Comcast On Demand. The first episode was Aisha Tyler.
hmm, maybe. I dont know if she has comcast, but likely she does.
UL: parents and people are not disposable. If you think they are it will be a sad life. Yes in cases of extreme abuse, etc but otherwise no grow up your childhood is done and it is up to you to quit blaming your parents and have the life you want.
Would you tell a client or patient of yours this?
Teacher Terry
4-5-16, 2:10pm
UL: you never tell a client what to do. 10 people can have the same problem and solve it 10 different ways. You help the person find their own solution that works for them.
UL: you never tell a client what to do. 10 people can have the same problem and solve it 10 different ways. You help the person find their own solution that works for them.
;)
You must get creeped out by all the marketing surrounding us as a society, then.
Also, remember the divorce isn't just about you, it also affected your spouse and kids. You might not want to provide that, but what if her grandkids gave her the information?
Oh yeah. I get really creeped out. I would love to find ways to shut all that down. I should probably learn about that and start closing off some loops of info, but I am also a public contact person for several meditation groups so that is hard. My phone number is not put out, an email address I have that is specific to the meditation group is published. I changed my name here after I went through a bad time ad felt I had shared too much, probably still sharing too much.
Divorce is about a lot of people, so my ex and my kids also would have a say in that information being shared. It not just about me. I mentioned what was going on to my son and he was as creeped out as I was, he does NOT want his information shared, does NOT want the divorce date on a family tree, pretty much as strong as my POV or stronger. Plus if my kids shared information that I already made clear I didn't want included then that would be a problem I would have an issue. I don't share things about them, and if I want to share something about them outside of a private conversation for my support only I ask permission.
We had a talk about when we lived in the suburbs, not fun. I thought it was a good place for the kids and for part of the time it was. Then they noticed that certain families didn't allow their kids over, one neighbor would close the curtains if they had a non-white friend over, really judgmental. We are much happier in the city. Of course I hear that 'this is just how people are', but they aren't people who share my values. There are not rules in the top 10 lists in Christianity about right speech or intoxicants. When I went to church I didn't hear sermons about using words in ways that don't hurt people. And drinking is only a topic for alcoholics in special groups that are hidden in the basement. There is advice and teaching in Buddhism about both of these things.
You must get creeped out by all the marketing surrounding us as a society, then.
The side-bar ads I get are really off-base and often wacky.
Zoe Girl, I'm finding myself in a very similar place regarding family tree stuff. At Christmas time I was at my mom's, brother and SIL were there, some where in the conversation family trees came up and my mom commented that I would be the ideal person to work on it, since I'm the oldest of the 21 grand children of her parents, and I'm familiar with the names of people going back 3 generations. I said I would do it when I'm off this summer.
Lo and behold, SIL started MY (our) family tree this week! For some reason it really is just rubbing me that wrong way! Maybe part of it is because my brother said, "she'll send you a pdf when she's done." I really was planning to do it, and kind of looking forward to it, so I feel like she took something away from me. And, Darn It! it is mine, not hers!!
mschris, that is super frustrating, especially since it was a conversation that everyone heard and you mom has more authority than SIL in making these decisions. So not cool, and definitely family stuff. Do you at least get editing rights? I would take those. Something like, "when you get some groundwork done please send it to me for edits". Maybe when she asks for info (and she will, she doesn't know all this) just respond that you have a lot of time over the summer and would be happy to work with her then. Or you could call your brother and just tell him he needs to stop his wife. Depends on your comfort level and the relationships here. If you have ANYTHING sensitive in the family I would butt in a little, not that doing your own family tree is butting in, however people just don't think. I am realizing that my bio-grandchild will be represented or not represented based on people who do not know my daughter and have never asked (or even f*ing considered) her feelings. How do his adoptive parents get represented, same questions as how do people who are divorced or never married with a child get represented? Oh yeah, and my aunt who had a baby and dad was totally out of the picture? Or does this all default into 'their' culture of what is acceptable in Iowa?
I realize I had what I am calling an 'anger fever' here. Lasted about a day and a half. Afterwards I was just exhausted. Still have a headache today.
I don't fully understand the fascination with family trees. They seem like a lot of work to be like: "Look! I am a distant relative to Grover Cleveland."
Though I think that if I were a more family-oriented person I might be more inclined to care.
I think of a family tree as a visual representation of a granfalloon, in most cases.
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