View Full Version : Paul Ryan is Serious
Much like William Tecumseh Sherman: if nominated, he will not run; if elected, he will not serve.
I think he means it.
I'll admit to being a little disappointed, but I can certainly see the importance of intelligent leadership for the House majority in the troubled years to come, given what the most likely outcomes of the presidential contest are looking like.
iris lilies
4-13-16, 11:45am
Much like William Tecumseh Sherman: if nominated, he will not run; if elected, he will not serve.
I think he means it.
I'll admit to being a little disappointed, but I can certainly see the importance of intelligent leadership for the House majority in the troubled years to come, given what the most likely outcomes of the presidential contest are looking like.
Oh exactly, I like Ryan and dont want him drafted into this fray. Just like
I dont mind that Rand Paul is still in the Senate, we need him there as a voice of reason in that relatively small body of power.
Ultralight
4-13-16, 11:51am
Don't neither of you two go worrying.
Paul Ryan will be your great white hope in about 8 years.
He will swing this nation so far to the right that every liberal's head will spin.
Don't neither of you two go worrying.
Paul Ryan will be your great white hope in about 8 years.
He will swing this nation so far to the right that every liberal's head will spin.
From your mouth to Gallup's ears...however...
Sadly, I fear we are embarking on a period of leftward drift that may last a long time. This will mean that bright, stalwart conservatives will be all the more necessary.
Ultralight
4-13-16, 12:20pm
...we are embarking on a period of leftward drift that may last a long time.
Your nightmare is my pleasant dream.
But I think this leftward movement will "course correct" a lot sooner than you think. I believe the US is a solidly center-right nation with occasional nutty swings to the hard right and rare moments of lucidity that move us left.
Your nightmare is my pleasant dream.
But I think this leftward movement will "course correct" a lot sooner than you think. I believe the US is a solidly center-right nation with occasional nutty swings to the hard right and rare moments of lucidity that move us left.
I think you spelled daft silliness wrong....
Ultralight
4-13-16, 12:31pm
I think you spelled daft wrong....
Haha!
I wouldn't have much of a problem with the right if it concerned itself (as it used to) with fiscal responsibility, conservation of resources, and a strict(er) interpretation of the Constitution. And I like the Paul's stance on foreign adventuring. But their Taliban-like Christian religious zealotry is a complete non-starter for me. The United States were never, ever intended to be a theocracy. It doesn't take much reading of the Founders' documents to figure that out. I see these wild-eyed lunatics and think of Cotton Mather and that bunch. Never again!
Ultralight
4-13-16, 1:00pm
I wouldn't have much of a problem with the right if it concerned itself (as it used to) with fiscal responsibility, conservation of resources, and a strict(er) interpretation of the Constitution.
Not much money in that.
Sadly, I fear we are embarking on a period of leftward drift that may last a long time.
We probably are. After all, pendulums tend to swing roughly the same distance in each direction. And assuming that this pendulum swings at a constant speed I'll be an old old man before we have to deal with it swinging right again.
Ultralight
4-13-16, 2:03pm
We probably are.
I hope you are correct. I would like to have a good decade in my middle age.
But I think this leftward movement will "course correct" a lot sooner than you think.
For that to happen, I think the left would need to overplay it's hand fairly egregiously. To slam into a wall of financial reality in trying to implement some of the mad schemes being bruited about. To become entangled in an ever more tangled web of intersectionality as the calculations of identity politics become increasingly complex. To go a bit too far in some moral crusade: plural marriage, perhaps, or prosecuting the Little Sisters of the Poor or Climate Change skeptics for some of the new thought crimes. Some truly calamitous back-down in the Baltic or the South China Sea. Some rising discontent over unchecked illegal immigration. A long 1970s style bout of stagflation. General across-the-board government heavy-handedness. There are any number of ways they could lose the public trust.
It could happen. That makes it incumbent on the right to be prepared with ideas, organization and leadership.
Ultralight
4-13-16, 2:35pm
For that to happen, I think the left would need to overplay it's hand fairly egregiously. To slam into a wall of financial reality in trying to implement some of the mad schemes being bruited about. To become entangled in an ever more tangled web of intersectionality as the calculations of identity politics become increasingly complex. To go a bit too far in some moral crusade: plural marriage, perhaps, or prosecuting the Little Sisters of the Poor or Climate Change skeptics for some of the new thought crimes. Some truly calamitous back-down in the Baltic or the South China Sea. Some rising discontent over unchecked illegal immigration. A long 1970s style bout of stagflation. General across-the-board government heavy-handedness. There are any number of ways they could lose the public trust.
It could happen. That makes it incumbent on the right to be prepared with ideas, organization and leadership.
They don't need that many ideas. They could do the predictable "privatize everything trick" again. It might be their only trick, actually. ;)
They don't need that many ideas. They could do the predictable "privatize everything trick" again. It might be their only trick, actually. ;)
It could be simpler than that. Look at the last big swing. The left pretty much dominated from the thirties through the seventies. Along comes Reagan, asking "are you better off with all this government?", and bang: it's morning in America. PATCO tries to hold the country hostage, and he wipes them off the board. He gets the country to swallow Doctor Volcker's Inflation Elixer. A real wall goes down. We get a generation of conservative dominance.
The idea that the Right is the party of small government is laughable. The only entities they don't want to micromanage are big business and gun owners. They've proved that over and over with draconian laws surrounding reproductive rights, heavy handed regulations to eat away at privacy--NSA, anyone?, laws that benefit the aforementioned businesses--like weapons programs even the generals say are unnecessary, the ever-increasing proliferations of for-profit prisons--we have incarceration that dwarfs anyone's but maybe China's--countless subsidies and laws that enable offshoring jobs and untaxed profits, unnecessary drug laws (see prison overpopulation.) There's no end to the ways they want to control us.
Yes, they're the worst political party in America from that standpoint. With one exception.
Yes, they're the worst political party in America from that standpoint. With one exception.
Maybe it's time for another sea change then.
Maybe it's time for another sea change then.
We may get one good and hard.
Williamsmith
4-14-16, 8:37am
The establishment and their profiteer buddies are a bit busy lately crafting a way to block Trump from the nomination. They have had to embrace strange dangerous bed partners to do it but of course they have had plenty of practice doing theses things in other countries. Look only back as far as Libya and a cackling Hillary Clinton's comment on poor Mr. Qaddafi's fate, "We came, we saw, he died!" LMAO. And John MCCain's tweet in 2011, "Qaddafi on his way out, Bashar al Assad is next."
Lots of our own tax money and probably student debt and all other kinds of onerous blood sucking dollar bills are being spent on bribes to keep the Trump infection from spreading. Politicians, judges, health administrations, college presidents, CEOs and generals alike are joining in the merriment. But they have to stay under the radar in order to remain helpful.
So what can a jobless, future less, hopeless, band of poorly educated but well armed disenfranchised segment of the vanquished American Dream do about it? They can go to their room, kick the door and scream, "I hate you!" Or when they calm down, they can sit on their bed and plan ways to exact revenge. They are doing both.
The establishment and their profiteer buddies have made a grand mess of many foreign nations and now they try to do the same to the homeland. More than just a little bit of rebellion is on the horizon.
Ultralight
4-14-16, 8:40am
I think Americans are rather docile. I don't expect much of a rebellion.
Williamsmith
4-14-16, 9:02am
I think Americans are rather docile. I don't expect much of a rebellion.
Would you count the political insurrection following Lincolns election otherwise known as the Civil War and taking the lives of over 600,000 as an outlier statistic?
Lots of our own tax money and probably student debt and all other kinds of onerous blood sucking dollar bills are being spent on bribes to keep the Trump infection from spreading. Politicians, judges, health administrations, college presidents, CEOs and generals alike are joining in the merriment. But they have to stay under the radar in order to remain helpful.
If they're under the radar then how is it you know about them?
I don't see a vast clandestine conspiracy to stop Trump. I see a lot of people pretty open in their opposition to his manifest stupidity. I know I voted against him with no expenditure of onerous blood sucking dollar bills required. I think that the Trump supporters have chosen a rather foolish way to thumb their noses at elite opinion and an increasingly sanctimonious PC culture, but I don't see them as desperate sans culottes.
Ultralight
4-14-16, 9:18am
It is much easier to drink heavily, get happy pills, go shopping on credit, stare endlessly at the TV, etc. than it is to rebel.
Williamsmith
4-14-16, 9:52am
If they're under the radar then how is it you know about them?
I don't see a vast clandestine conspiracy to stop Trump. I see a lot of people pretty open in their opposition to his manifest stupidity. I know I voted against him with no expenditure of onerous blood sucking dollar bills required. I think that the Trump supporters have chosen a rather foolish way to thumb their noses at elite opinion and an increasingly sanctimonious PC culture, but I don't see them as desperate sans culottes.
Social media is a game changer. The mainstream cannot hold the narrative anymore. Information streams instantaneously now. In fact, the four year election cycle may be too long because it is like a large pot of foul smelling simmering stew constantly belching out offensive gases. When newspapers and even television network news ruled, the barbershops were filled with discussions not arguments.
On on line forums like this have replaced local social gatherings. Only now information is passed worldwide in an instant.
I can't make you see what is already plainly in front of your face. The fact that he is , "manifestly stupid". And still receives such support should indicate how deep the hatred is. You vote of course was only symbolic and has no effect on the nominee as has so often been explained lately by the Chairman of the RNC himself. Rules are rules and everyone knew what they were at the outset. Right.
The Trump supporters have "thumbed their noses" in the only manner they can. And I hate it when you use those French Ivy Leaugue terms .....sans culottes......and italicized for emphasis. It makes me feel like a stupid uneducated blue collar when I have to look it up.
Ha! To me, sans culottes means "without pants" - and I refuse to look it up. :D
So the conspiracy against Trump is both under the radar and plainly in my face? That is some fancy flying! If the majority of Republicans manage to save the general electorate the trouble of thwarting Mr. Trump’s ambitions, I would see that as yet another service to the country rather than the machinations of a sinister cabal.
I’m not sure what game the internet changed, beyond making it much less expensive and time-consuming to disseminate both information and it’s evil twin to receptive minds. As far as some great groundswell of hatred bursting into violence, I must be spending my time at the wrong websites. I’m not detecting the kind of enmity that would lead to an 1860s or even a 1960s level of political violence.
I only have a Big Ten education, so I look things up all the time. Perhaps if one of the Trump people had consulted Siri on Colorado caucus rules, they would not have come to such grief there.
Regardless of whether the colorado results were just a result of poor planning on the part of Trump, some of his supporters seem ready to burst into violence in their efforts to overthrow the establishment.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/colorado-gop-chairman-steve-house-is-getting-threats-from-donald-trump-supporters
Regardless of whether the colorado results were just a result of poor planning on the part of Trump, some of his supporters seem ready to burst into violence in their efforts to overthrow the establishment.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/colorado-gop-chairman-steve-house-is-getting-threats-from-donald-trump-supporters
That's how you can tell his base comes from outside the Republican party.
That's how you can tell his base comes from outside the Republican party.
Where have they come from? I doubt they're coming from the democratic party. And regardless of where they are coming from they do seem to have a strong hatred of what they consider to be the establishment, as williamsmith stated. You can't get much more establishment than a state party chairman.
Williamsmith
4-14-16, 1:45pm
So the conspiracy against Trump is both under the radar and plainly in my face? That is some fancy flying! If the majority of Republicans manage to save the general electorate the trouble of thwarting Mr. Trump’s ambitions, I would see that as yet another service to the country rather than the machinations of a sinister cabal.
I’m not sure what game the internet changed, beyond making it much less expensive and time-consuming to disseminate both information and it’s evil twin to receptive minds. As far as some great groundswell of hatred bursting into violence, I must be spending my time at the wrong websites. I’m not detecting the kind of enmity that would lead to an 1860s or even a 1960s level of political violence.
I only have a Big Ten education, so I look things up all the time. Perhaps if one of the Trump people had consulted Siri on Colorado caucus rules, they would not have come to such grief there.
You and I are clearly on different wavelengths even though I too received a Big Ten education. We never tossed about some of the nearly extinct terms which is a hallmark of your conversation. Kudos to keeping the language alive.
I dont believe I mentioned the Internet directly by name, I was thinking mostly about Twitter and such where otherwise discreet politicians used to protect their bias and prejudice but now feverishly post poorly thought out responses to breaking news. All to the disdain of public relations majors everywhere. Kind of a poor mans polygraph.
You do have to try to expose yourself to other opinions that probably will be in opposition to your own. There are plenty out there and many that would address the frustration of the oppressed by the oligarchy and duopoly (I learned that in the Big Ten school......as well as beekeeping 101.)
The 1860s and 1960s both included a good dose of conspiracy and assassination which I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss as old history. It is amazing to me that some of the same people so cynical against big government for social programming, ravenously support big government militarism and downplay any governmental conspiracy theories. Seems incongruous to me.
Ha! To me, sans culottes means "without pants" - and I refuse to look it up. :D
Ha--me too! (I know there's a story there somewhere, so I'll look it up later.) I love languages, and using just the right phrase--no matter what language--and I decry today's lazy-ass culture that tells us no one reads above an eighth-grade level, so dumb it down (as we were counseled in tech-writing classes). Have you ever read nineteenth-century schoolbooks? I'm sure their idea of "eighth-grade" was more like undergraduate level. We're devolving apace.
I believe I learned the phrase "sans-culottes" in history class in public middle school in rural Ohio.
Back when schools taught things.
Ultralight
4-14-16, 3:40pm
I believe I learned the phrase "sans-culottes" in history class in public middle school in rural Ohio.
Back when schools taught things.
I too am from rural Ohio. I went to school there back in the 1990s. And they taught me things (directly or indirectly), like:
-All that matters is FOOTBALL!
-Sneaky ways to skip class
-The best learning I'd ever do was on my own
-Teachers are often incredibly flawed people
-Life ain't fair, and it is really unfair in middle school and high school
I went to school in rural Ohio back when we could still walk on the moon.
Ultralight
4-14-16, 3:46pm
I went to school in rural Ohio back when we could still walk on the moon.
FOOTBALL!
You and I are clearly on different wavelengths even though I too received a Big Ten education. We never tossed about some of the nearly extinct terms which is a hallmark of your conversation. Kudos to keeping the language alive.
I dont believe I mentioned the Internet directly by name, I was thinking mostly about Twitter and such where otherwise discreet politicians used to protect their bias and prejudice but now feverishly post poorly thought out responses to breaking news. All to the disdain of public relations majors everywhere. Kind of a poor mans polygraph.
You do have to try to expose yourself to other opinions that probably will be in opposition to your own. There are plenty out there and many that would address the frustration of the oppressed by the oligarchy and duopoly (I learned that in the Big Ten school......as well as beekeeping 101.)
The 1860s and 1960s both included a good dose of conspiracy and assassination which I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss as old history. It is amazing to me that some of the same people so cynical against big government for social programming, ravenously support big government militarism and downplay any governmental conspiracy theories. Seems incongruous to me.
I get exposed to other opinions all the time. That's half the reason I come here. UltraliteAngler alone is worth the price of admission. I don't always buy them. In this case, I don't think a conspiracy theory is required to explain the opposition to Donald Trump. We don't require the baleful influence of an oligarchy jealous of it's privileges to see that he would be bad for the future of both the Republican Party and the United States. It's obvious every time the man speaks. I don't need to posit unseen string-pulling to explain it. I agree with the guy who said history is more the product of chaos than conspiracy.
Nor do I buy the theory that the boorish behavior of some of Trump's supporters signals a violent revolution in the making. I've heard similar threats and bluster at Little League games. We've seen worse violence after NBA championship games than anything we've seen the Trumpkins do.
http://alphahistory.com/frenchrevolution/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/radicalsarms.jpg
Ultralight
4-14-16, 3:57pm
UltraliteAngler alone is worth the price of admission.
Likewise. haha
I believe I learned the phrase "sans-culottes" in history class in public middle school in rural Ohio.
Back when schools taught things.
Yeah--I looked it up, and had my memory jogged--the brave French Revolutionaries. I went to a singularly undistinguished state university; mediocrity is my middle name.
Ultralight
4-14-16, 4:06pm
I went to the University of Toledo and The University of Alabama. I am mediocre too. haha
ApatheticNoMore
4-14-16, 4:08pm
Look it up, it's good for you (just have safe search on or prepared for the horrors of French pron - just kidding :)). I look up things all the time, but I actually see those as the deeper intellectual values, admitting one's ignorance (everyone is ignorant about many things) rather than trying to show off how much one knows as some type of social signaling. But hey this is not a new line of thought.
If you actually know something someone else doesn't (as opposed to just different value systems which might never be resolved that way) should you hold it against them (and it may very well be their comparative lack of privilege that has lead to their lack of knowledge) or try to explain to them what you know. Yes there are sometimes cases where you can lead a horse to water ... but that's not always the case. Generally the latter, knowledge is a commons to be shared, or should be right?
The thing about schools teaching things is I'm not sure that's even exactly how the human brain works. We were all taught a lot that we don't remember (alright maybe a few people with photographic memories exempted), so it's about what you remember as much as what you are taught.
I believe I learned the phrase "sans-culottes" in history class in public middle school in rural Ohio.
Back when schools taught things.
Some of that hardnosed Ohio spirit apparently survives at OSU, where a campus building occupation ended in a most atypical manner.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/04/07/OSU_protest_at_Bricker_Hall_xNoendsNOW.html
I read about this, and thought that somewhere Woody Hayes is smiling.
The thing about schools teaching things is I'm not sure that's even exactly how the human mind works. We were all taught a lot that we don't remember (alright maybe a few people with photographic memories exempted), so it's about what you remember as much as what you are taught.
Sometimes it's about how scary the nun doing the teaching was.
Even though I took French in several for several years I can't speak it worth a damn but have always been extremely fascinated with language and wish that I were bi-lingual--in French particularly. I love the sound of it. In addition to sans-culottes, how could you NOT love (don't have time to figure out how to do the accents):
joie de vivre (my favorite French phrase)
coup de grace
denouement
femme fatale
faux pas
raison d'être
trompe l'oeil
nouveau riche
noblesse oblige
menage a trois
force majeure
comme ci, comme ca
bon vivant
Although the candidate seemed to have a joie de vivre that came from his successes in the business world his actual business record was comme ci, comme ca, with some people saying that he’d have been more successful if he’d just invested his inheritance into an index fund. He fancied himself a bon vivant, but many in the establishment felt that he was just nouveau riche and that he lacked the understanding that he should at least give the appearance of noblesse oblige as they did. His campaign was inconvenienced by a femme fatale who refused to suck up to him during the debates, about whom he made many derogatory remarks. It was believed by some that he actually was frustrated by his desire for a menage a trois with her. He made many faux pas in the minds of the establishment, who considered him a force majeure who must be stopped at any cost. In their minds the coup de grace would have to be delivered at their convention, the denouement of a long and exciting campaign season, when his opponent from Canada would learn that his raison d’etre was not to be the leader of the party, but instead just part of a grand trompe l’oeil, designed to keep the sans culottes from obtaining power at any cost while the establishment nominated exactly who they had intended all along.
iris lilies
4-14-16, 7:21pm
Although the candidate seemed to have a joie de vivre that came from his successes in the business world his actual business record was comme ci, comme ca, with some people saying that he’d have been more successful if he’d just invested his inheritance into an index fund. He fancied himself a bon vivant, but many in the establishment felt that he was just nouveau riche and that he lacked the understanding that he should at least give the appearance of noblesse oblige as they did. His campaign was inconvenienced by a femme fatale who refused to suck up to him during the debates, about whom he made many derogatory remarks. It was believed by some that he actually was frustrated by his desire for a menage a trois with her. He made many faux pas in the minds of the establishment, who considered him a force majeure who must be stopped at any cost. In their minds the coup de grace would have to be delivered at their convention, the denouement of a long and exciting campaign season, when his opponent from Canada would learn that his raison d’etre was not to be the leader of the party, but instead just part of a grand trompe l’oeil, designed to keep the sans culottes from obtaining power at any cost while the establishment nominated exactly who they had intended all along.
Hahahaha! Good one!
Bien fait! Tour de Force!
Although the candidate seemed to have a joie de vivre that came from his successes in the business world his actual business record was comme ci, comme ca, with some people saying that he’d have been more successful if he’d just invested his inheritance into an index fund. He fancied himself a bon vivant, but many in the establishment felt that he was just nouveau riche and that he lacked the understanding that he should at least give the appearance of noblesse oblige as they did. His campaign was inconvenienced by a femme fatale who refused to suck up to him during the debates, about whom he made many derogatory remarks. It was believed by some that he actually was frustrated by his desire for a menage a trois with her. He made many faux pas in the minds of the establishment, who considered him a force majeure who must be stopped at any cost. In their minds the coup de grace would have to be delivered at their convention, the denouement of a long and exciting campaign season, when his opponent from Canada would learn that his raison d’etre was not to be the leader of the party, but instead just part of a grand trompe l’oeil, designed to keep the sans culottes from obtaining power at any cost while the establishment nominated exactly who they had intended all along.
MDR!
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