The Psychology of "Free" Stuff

[catherine]

Just a musing on how people think and respond to getting free stuff.

We just dropped DS off at the airport, and on the way back DH stopped at a convenience store. When he emerged from the store he had a big smile on his face and a large 24 oz coffee in his hand. He said, "It's free coffee day! Go on inside--get a free coffee!"

So of course, being a huge coffee addict, I did just that, but I picked a 16 oz size. When I got out DH asked me why I would get the 16 oz when you could pick any size. So I told him that I'm not going to drink more than 16 oz and I didn't want to waste it. His response was, "What difference does it make? It's free!"

I'm not demonizing DH for his POV vs mine--it just make me wonder about free stuff psychology. I saw some people with those little trays that you can fit 4 cups in, and they were also taking advantage of "free" by getting as much free coffee as they could--I consider this taking advantage of a goodwill gesture on the part of the convenience store.

The not-very-scientific conclusions I draw from this piece of ethnographic research was a) if it's free it's OK to waste it and b) if it's free you're entitled to grab as much as you can.

Why is that? Is that a function of our current system in any way? Do we only value what we have to pay for with money? If everything were ALWAYS free, i.e. the Gift Economy I'm so interested in, would we still have the same attitudes?

[Alan]

Is that a function of our current system in any way? Yes
Do we only value what we have to pay for with money?Yes
If everything were ALWAYS free, i.e. the Gift Economy I'm so interested in, would we still have the same attitudes?Yes

[iris lilies]

Yes Yes Yes
Hahaha. Yup.

[ApatheticNoMore]

There is a psychology to free stuff and people do act differently around it, but I doubt it is this simplistic. Does it lead to more waste? Maybe. I mean very little is actually free and yet we live in a system of absolute massive mind-boggling waste. Riddle me this. Many cultures did not necessarily put monetary value on things and yet had strong ethics of conservation (far more than we do , with a price on everything).

Food is not free (in sale or production) and yet vast quantities of the food supply get wasted, much long before it gets to the end consumer. We all know this. Maybe food while not free is "too cheap" as many argue (although this is relative, it's not too cheap for those who can't afford it. See I think a lot is too cheap like non-renewable resources, but not for people who are poor, so carbon taxes yes (and that is the logical way to make things more expensive), but you better make sure you help out the poor).

But very little is free in this world, and so getting something free can feel like some great reward. I had some free coffee in the lobby at work and I guess I took a lot of it, but only decaf, even free stuff doesn't make me insane enough to consume the fully caffeinated poison. But the thing is there's free coffee every day at work. But free coffee and chocolate in the lobby at work was something new (and they had actual milk not the creamer @#$# they have every day) and so everyone went down to get it, even though there's free coffee (without real milk sadly) at work everyday and I never touch the stuff.

[iris lilies]

Catherine, how in hell is The Gift Economy going to give everyone stuff for free? Is it just some stuff? Surely not all stuff. I cant fathom how that works. Will you give me a house?


The stuff itself is often not the real cost. The additional costs of delivery can be significant.

we will be facing into the excesses of our community garden this year as we observe lots of produce going to waste. There is the "food insecurity police" who get all twitchy at the idea that veggies lie rotting in the sun. "Someone must do something! Take them to a food bank!" Ok dude, go for it, just make sure that youve contacted all owners of those beds you are picking from. And its your gas. And time.

Me, I dont ascribe a huge value to items with vegetative dna if those items dont fit in with my value structure. Iris important, squash not important. Having lived with a farmer for 25 years who raises 3x the produce we can use I just put it in the compost bin when I am overwhelmed with the piles of veg on our kitchen counters.

[iris lilies]

Free coffe at work was one of the best perks evah. Ooooo! When the new director took over and said "i am making coffee in the staff room, get rid of all of the departmental coffee setups!" I was in heaven.

[Alan]

Free coffe at work was one of the best perks evah. Of course, the term 'free coffee' is a misnomer, along the same lines as free healthcare or free college. We provide 'free' coffee at work, along with hot chocolate and tea. It takes approximately $60K out of my annual budget for a workforce of approximately 400.

[catherine]

Having lived with a farmer for 25 years who raises 3x the produce we can use I just put it in the compost bin when I am overwhelmed with the piles of veg on our kitchen counters.

I agree. One of the great perks of being a part of the growing-composting-growing cycle of life is you don't feel like you're wasting if you know that this year's old cucumber is going to be part of next year's tomato.


Catherine, how in hell is The Gift Economy going to give everyone stuff for free? Is it just some stuff? Surely not all stuff. I cant fathom how that works. Will you give me a house?



There is NO WAY I could explain to you my limited knowledge of the gift economy in a forum like this, and I concede that it is a very idealistic point of view, and it is also true that you really have to be open to the idea that the economic model we currently operate in is perhaps not the only way. In fact, other societies have operated according to the gift economy with much success.

Here is an article from HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/beverly-bell/birthing-justice-the-link_b_1444884.html) that describes the attitude shift that would have to occur in order for the gift economy to work, and make no mistake--we are at least 7 generations away from even being able to wrap our heads around this, given how entrenched our mindset is with regard to a traditional market economy.

Here's an excerpt:


Who you are is very much defined by how much you give to others. And when you say give, that means everything. We give objects but they are only symbols. They’re just to materialize the links. The highest gift is recognizing people, giving consideration for who they are, and accepting to be linked to them.

The gift economy is a way of life. And it’s real; it’s not something that we dream about. If you go into any family here in Mali, you’ll find that most of the time, one person works and feeds twenty people. It’s not like we have governmental systems to take care of people. It’s not like we have a high rate of employment or like everyone has some money. There is nothing. If you interviewed any number of persons and asked them how they live, what they eat, where they get what they wear, you would easily notice that most of it has been given by someone. If there wasn’t a working gift economy, we would have a lot of people dead on the streets from hunger.

Our belief is that what we do always comes back to us. My mother, for example... Anyone who comes by, she will solve their problems as if they were hers. Her belief in doing so is that someone will do the same for her own children as they travel around. It is a real thing; someone really will take care of your children while you are caring for someone else’s. When you are in a community where everyone believes that, it really does work.

[catherine]

But very little is free in this world, and so getting something free can feel like some great reward. I had some free coffee in the lobby at work and I guess I took a lot of it, but only decaf, even free stuff doesn't make me insane enough to consume the fully caffeinated poison. But the thing is there's free coffee every day at work. But free coffee and chocolate in the lobby at work was something new (and they had actual milk not the creamer @#$# they have every day) and so everyone went down to get it, even though there's free coffee (without real milk sadly) at work everyday and I never touch the stuff.

So, that really supports the idea that because "free" is rare, it drives people to grab it when they can, even if they plan to waste it. If "free" isn't rare, i.e., ALWAYS free, people might NOT have a tendency to waste it, hoard it, or take as much as they can just because it's free.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I'm not sure to what an extent a gift economy would be a better society to live in (or better than those anonymous government programs that take care of people - the sheer anonymity guarantees a sort of protection from social ostracism leading to starvation that nothing else does). And I'm not sure how much that gift economy would work with existing high costs that exist in this country. Yea everything is gifted but how do you do that when necessities can be so expensive like housing. You can cram 20 people into a one bedroom apartment (and heaven knows that's the wave of the future) but ... I don't know if this is actually a positive development to be cheered.

Prices can signify scarcity but the thing is how obviously they have failed to signal to conserve what really matters. The whole world is proof. Sure farming is subsidized which may not help but even if it wasn't there would probably still be some problem with this. Market prices seldom seem to have provided significant signaling to think long term. So you go by "cannery row" in Monterey. There actually used to be sardine canneries there and they fished them to near extinction even though of course the businesses dependent on sardines there collapsed after that. That's what is happening now with many fish. Prices alone will not protect the last blue fin tuna from being fished to extinction. Now you can say that market prices are never going to be enough for this and try to slap penalty taxes on things as well (carbon taxes etc..) Maybe .... maybe that will work. Or maybe you just need an ethic of conservation. But it's so hard to manufacture that in this culture, although certainly an anti-conservation ethic has been preached for years (with planned obsolescence and advertising for people to regularly replace things etc.).

[iris lilies]

Of course, the term 'free coffee' is a misnomer, along the same lines as free healthcare or free college. We provide 'free' coffee at work, along with hot chocolate and tea. It takes approximately $60K out of my annual budget for a workforce of approximately 400.
Yes, true. And actually for me it as never the cost of the actual coffee that bothered me,it was the fussing with and maintenance of various coffee pots throughout depsrtment that bugged me. Fire safety and lack of electrical outlets were a problem.

it was more efficient in human labor to consolidate the coffee making function but the main gain was to control small appliances, fire hazards.

[jp1]

Of course, the term 'free coffee' is a misnomer, along the same lines as free healthcare or free college. We provide 'free' coffee at work, along with hot chocolate and tea. It takes approximately $60K out of my annual budget for a workforce of approximately 400.

Very true. but how many employee hours are preserved by getting people to not run out to Starbucks twice a day. It's probably money well spent. Although free is not generally free, in some cases it serves a good purpose.

[iris lilies]

Yes, the Gift Economy as practiced here in the western world is highly idealistic.

Its sortnof like how families operate, but spread further out.

[catherine]

I'm not sure to what an extent a gift economy would be a better society to live in (or better than those anonymous government programs that take care of people - the sheer anonymity guarantees a sort of protection from social ostracism leading to starvation that nothing else does). And I'm not sure how much that gift economy would work with existing high costs that exist in this country.

I agree--we are in no place to jump into the gift economy, but there are people who are putting their toes in the water. Some people have "pay what you want" programs. Common source is all "free" on the internet. There wouldn't be social ostracism based on what people don't have because money would not be the thermometer to measure worth. And a complete transition to the gift economy would NOT work with today's high prices--but our prices are inflated--for many reasons, and believe me, I'm not smart enough to speak to that, but I suspect that push for profit is one of them, and that would be irrelevant in a gift economy.

The main thing that works against us TODAY, though is our American desire for independence and high fences. You have to value connections with other people in order for the gift economy to work, and there are too many people who value the function of money to separate us.

[jp1]

This thread reminds me of an interesting opposite I read about. The teachers at a school with an after school program were frustrated with parents not picking up their kids on time. To try and fix this they started charging a fee for any kid that hadn't been picked up by 5:00 or whatever the time was. The theory was that now that there was a cost, maybe parents would be incentivized to be on time. The reality was that even more parents were late because now, instead of feeling guilty about being late, they felt like they were let off the hook since they were paying the late fee.

[catherine]

This thread reminds me of an interesting opposite I read about. The teachers at a school with an after school program were frustrated with parents not picking up their kids on time. To try and fix this they started charging a fee for any kid that hadn't been picked up by 5:00 or whatever the time was. The theory was that now that there was a cost, maybe parents would be incentivized to be on time. The reality was that even more parents were late because now, instead of feeling guilty about being late, they felt like they were let off the hook since they were paying the late fee.

Great example. Very interesting!

[catherine]

Yes, the Gift Economy as practiced here in the western world is highly idealistic.

Its sortnof like how families operate, but spread further out.

That's a great way to look at it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

And given how dysfunction the average nuclear family is .... well you can see why we distrust it :)

(although families might tend to be less dysfunctional if they were larger units - extended families and a village and so on - a larger set even of crazies might mitigate the impact of that concentrated parent brand of crazy).

[Chicken lady]

I'm contemplating this "free" thing today.

a store sent me two coupons $10 off $10 or more and $10 off $25 or more.

so I went to the store. My favorite pretty kitchen towel was $10, so I bought a second one for free. Then I looked around to see how close I could come to $25 with things I wanted, since I didn't have any needs. i found bath towels I like for $16, buy one get one for a penny, and then I discovered that the set of bamboo cutting boards I really like was on sale for 8.99 - bang! So for $16.05 (tax) I got two new bath towels, a tea towel, and the cutting boards I keep wanting bug not buying because they are always "too expensive".

The thing is, if the stuff had just been 60% off, I probably wouldn't have stopped at the store (ten minutes out of my way on my drive home) - they have a 70-90% off area and I never stop to look. But hey, $20 in free stuff!

[freshstart]

Talbot's sent me two $10 off $10 coupons. In the old days, when we had an outlet, I would've been able to come out with a work dress and pants off the deep clearance rack for free. Now, in the regular store, I don't think I can find anything anywhere near $10 and I'm not willing to spend much OOP. These will be coupons I give away.

[ToomuchStuff]

Catherine, you said common source. Do you actually mean Open Source?


Of course, the term 'free coffee' is a misnomer, along the same lines as free healthcare or free college. We provide 'free' coffee at work, along with hot chocolate and tea. It takes approximately $60K out of my annual budget for a workforce of approximately 400.
Besides the budget, it also is figured into the bills your customers pay. If it were not offered and you saved that, while realistically it wouldn't be dropped (extra profit or go elsewhere), the costs of your goods/services could go down. (so customers are paying for it)


Yes, true. And actually for me it as never the cost of the actual coffee that bothered me,it was the fussing with and maintenance of various coffee pots throughout depsrtment that bugged me. Fire safety and lack of electrical outlets were a problem.

it was more efficient in human labor to consolidate the coffee making function but the main gain was to control small appliances, fire hazards.
Besides the fire risk, it also probably increased productivity, as if someone is only a little thirsty, they are less apt to get up to walk a football field, then they are to walk 10 feet away and get away from what they are working on.
At some point, there is a productivity curve, where number of employees visiting and not working, meets the needs of addtional employees to get the same amount of work done, etc.

[catherine]

Catherine, you said common source. Do you actually mean Open Source?



Yes--Open Source. Thanks for the correction!