View Full Version : coping but not adjusting
I am hitting mid-life I guess, I am fine financially. I have to work REALLY hard a lot of the time, not losing track of anything, and a big medical thing would be devastating, but I am paying things pretty well. Still there is part of me that is not adjusting to the reality of the overall economic situation. I keep automatically thinking that I can do more with just some hard work. I think I could find a cheaper apartment despite research to the contrary, or I think not eating out more than one semi-fast food a month will mean I get to do something fun or just thinking that I could take a vacation at some point and the numbers add up to no vacations (even cheap driving ones) for a very long time. I even have to think carefully about buying yarn for a project that costs $20. I have done the 2 jobs on and off for years, at one point 3 jobs, scrimped every thing I could, I know my limits and I need to respect that I don't have the energy to keep doing extra. I don't need to 'fix' anything, just re-adjust my expectations.
I just really expected something different at this point in my life. I am not the only one by far, it just is really difficult, so thank you for listening to me vent.
Teacher Terry
4-17-16, 6:15pm
I have found that thrift stores are great places to get yarn. I knit 100 scarves/year for the homeless and it was getting to be an expense when I had to pay full price. I think we all expect to be doing well by middle age. Women just don't earn the same as men so I think it is tougher for single women. I also think by middle age that it is too hard to work 2 jobs. Housing and transportation are the 2 biggest expenses for people I think besides health care. When I divorced in middle age I had $ from the marriage so I was able to buy myself a low cost of living by buying a small 2 br condo in an older building. That gave me a lot of additional $ to save, invest, etc because my mortgage was so low. I think your expectations are reasonable.
Teacher Terry beat me to it, but I think I've noted before that traditional pink-collar jobs pay squat--and I haven't seen signs of that changing any time soon. It appears that you're working twenty hours of unpaid overtime a week, or do I have that wrong? I would seriously be considering every well-paid option available to me. In a few years, you'll be aged out of the job market, unless you have some serious credentials built up.
Or you could take a leaf from UltraliteAngler, and hook up with some guy to help with the rent. Just kidding, I think. :cool:
Thank you for being in reality with me, I have not seen a dent in the 70 - ish cents on the dollar that has been the standard for sex based wage difference the last 20 years. It is just so fu**ing frustrating. For years I heard to not worry about my career because the baby boomers would retire, then they couldn't retire because the economy crashed, and now jobs are going to younger people, on top of the wage differences. I know I am in a female centered business but this is ridiculous. I am working hard on the unpaid overtime, last week was brutal but I keep hoping (I had a new staff quit with no notice due to mental health/life issues and had to scramble to cover that). I am stretching myself to do some training in mindfulness and work with an organization to get some additional work, plus open the door to careers in that direction. I will give it a few years, I also have an interest in data science as an outgrowth of my current work. I applied for a data type job in our department a few years ago but didn't get an interview. I do see women older than me in my line of work but I also see lay-offs that are poor excuses for getting rid of higher paid workers.
If I got a guy then I could at least have someone to see a movie with or go on a hike with, possibly, gasp, go out to dinner. I am not sure if it is super obvious that I have no social life beyond meditation groups and facebook but that is kinda the deal.
freshstart
4-18-16, 8:27am
I don't have answers except can you document how much unpaid overtime you're doing and see if there could be any recompense for that? However, when we nurses did extra hours of work, we did not get overtime and we were told we weren't doing the job efficiently if you had so much overtime. So speaking up can hurt you in the long run.
would you be willing to consider online dating? It's hard to meet a guy in your 40s the organic way. I did it ten yrs ago, met many interesting men (some were more "interesting" than actually interesting) and had a 7 yr LTR with a man I met online. Maybe it would be a good change of pace from your stressful job.
we were told we weren't doing the job efficiently if you had so much overtime.
That is such a load of crap. Sure there may be people who work inefficiently, but a lot of the time companies just expect people to do more than is possible during a normal shift.
In the insurance broker industry there has been a lot of consolidation of smaller firms into larger ones over the past 15 years or so. Typically the way it plays out is that the small firm finds an equity investor (like Mitt Romney's firm) who then helps them become more "efficient". The typical goal is to have a 30% profit margin in 5-7 years and then sell out to one of the big insurance brokers. The only way an insurance brokerage can achieve that kind of profit margin is to beat the crap out of their employees. The result is high employee churn and crappy customer service and a big payout for the equity investment firm and the original owners of the brokerage once they get bought out.
JP1- You've nailed it! Not just insurance- it seems every person I talk to has a job where the expectations keep increasing and the pay stays the same, the work is impossible to do in the allotted time so...take it home, stay late and the nauseating, demeaning statement "WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER".
Ultralight
4-18-16, 11:04am
JP1- You've nailed it! Not just insurance- it seems every person I talk to has a job where the expectations keep increasing and the pay stays the same, the work is impossible to do in the allotted time so...take it home, stay late and the nauseating, demeaning statement "WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER".
Same situation at my work, for the state gubmint.
JP1- You've nailed it! Not just insurance- it seems every person I talk to has a job where the expectations keep increasing and the pay stays the same, the work is impossible to do in the allotted time so...take it home, stay late and the nauseating, demeaning statement "WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER".
That is one of my top three irritant work cliches, along with "think outside the box" and "do more with less". Apparently, nothing is too hard for the people who don't have to do it themselves.
Ultralight
4-18-16, 11:33am
Apparently, nothing is too hard for the people who don't have to do it themselves.
Well said.
hahaha
I remember one manager (whose inexperience was showing) earnestly exhorting us to work harder so his boss could get a bonus. Really? (Where the hell is that ROFL smiley?) But at least we had a union, so we weren't expected to slave away uncompensated.
Ultralight
4-18-16, 12:39pm
But at least we had a union, so we weren't expected to slave away uncompensated.
Amen sistah!
It has been a huge year, and my sups are sympathetic and supportive to the extent they can be. I am going into a huge summer and my job is to learn to let go more! I am taking a field trip day off and asking for a lot of support.
One factor is that I have been short an aide until a month ago, and he quit without notice last week. Just a no-show and then a text saying he was moving home. I know he was dealing with some serious mental health issues but it is too late in the school year to hire a new person. Also I have been trying to hire an assistant since October and no one wants the job. I got close to hiring and 2 different people fell through, argh. Short staffing is a constant in our business. I have 5 weeks left in the school year and the school is helping by having paras work for me, I pay overtime after all! And one of my staff was helping more with the data and paperwork when we had an aide. I think the goal is to get creative instead of working more hours, holding my summer staff accountable will be a big factor! The camp may be up to 300 kids, that is larger than anything we have run before and I have authorization for 2 assistants.
(edited) I am thinking about putting up a babysitting sign at my apartment building and just seeing about picking up some spare money.
Teacher Terry
4-18-16, 1:47pm
People also pay well for dog walking/sitting for when they go on vacations or because they are too lazy to walk their dogs. Even professional professions that tend to mostly attract women pay much less then fields that attract men. My current hubby has a BA in civil engineering with a PE license and I have a Ph.D yet he always made about 30k more per year. When I was divorced in my 40's most of my friends found their partners by online dating. The average person had about 16 dates before they found the one.
Thank you TT, just wondering if I am generally too tired to date. I have tried, I met a really wonderful guy who lives 2 hours away, he works every weekend and I have very long week days. We agreed we really liked each other and it was super unlikely. So if he got a job in Denver like he was looking for I would love to see him more, we left it open like that.
ApatheticNoMore
4-18-16, 3:36pm
Don't women get paid less even doing the exact same job. So then it's not a profession change one needs if one wants a raise but a sex change >8)
I was paid the same as the men in my job title (there's that union thing again). Also, payscales were completely transparent--none of this secret salary crapola.
Ultralight
4-18-16, 4:24pm
In my place of employment men are paid less.
Chicken lady
4-18-16, 5:20pm
That's odd.
is it like my job (teaching) where the pay is based on seniority and the men keep leaving because they can do better, so they are all new (ish)?
freshstart
4-18-16, 6:09pm
I found in nursing that men didn't necessarily get paid more for the same job but they got promoted a whole heck of a lot faster.
We also weren't unionized. Every time they tried to get in, managers would hold meetings telling us how bad unions are and we would make less, etc, etc. Which happens to be illegal. Sadly, my co-workers always believed what they were told, we never got close to getting one
iris lilies
4-18-16, 7:55pm
In my place of employment men are paid less.
These discussions about who is a bigger victim just bore me, but thanks for your contribution.
I worked for 35 years in a female dominated profession and have observations and anecdotal experience that may or may not support the premise that $.70 is what women are paid in comparison to men at $1.00' depending on how I spin it.
there are several arguments that explain most (not all!) of the differential women/men pay thing, and we've talked about them before , but no one really wants to change their minds because victim-hood is where it's at nowadays. I suppose no one would believe me that the latest measure shows young women out earning young men in urban centers, so I wont bother to look up the citation.
Teacher Terry
4-18-16, 8:09pm
IL: I believe you and i think it is great that things are changing. People need to be paid the same regardless of sex for the same work. Just fair.
I'd be interested in seeing proof of the 70 cents on the dollar meme. After 43 years in the workplace, I've never seen it when all things are equal, other than the sex of the employees.
Ultralight
4-18-16, 8:57pm
No, men mostly get stagnated in lower-end jobs. Women get promoted. In my area there were three promotions given out since I started. All three went to women -- one had only been there two years and was not especially experienced or highly educated. Gay men also seem to fair quite well.
The glass ceiling is very, very high. Only the top spot at the tip-top seems out of reach for women. And the stiletto ceiling appears to not exist at all.
For the most part, straight white dudes are an afterthought. So this is one workplace where feminism was overwhelmingly victorious.
Ultralight
4-18-16, 8:57pm
These discussisns about who is a bigger victim just bore me, but thanks for your contribution.
I worked for 35 years in a female dominated profession and have observatins and anecdotal experence that may or may not support the premse that $.70 is what women are paid in compsrison to men at $1.00' dependng on how I spin it.
there are several arguments that explain mst (not all!) of the differential women/men pay thing, and weve talked about them before , but no one really wants to change their minds because victimhood is where it's at nowdays. I suppose no one would believe me that the latest measure shows young women out earning young men in urban centers, so I wont bother to look up the citation.
I was just pointing out what might be an anomaly.
Simplemind
4-18-16, 9:00pm
I know a lot of people have problems with unions. I was covered by one and even within our group there was still complaints. That said, there was no overtime or salary BS. My sister is expected to work 20 or more hours a week on OT with no compensation. Her benefits have been stripped every year. She doesn't even get a cost of living raise. She is an accountant. For years I tried to get her to come work for the city when an opening came up. She couldn't/wouldn't leave out of loyalty. Look how she has been repaid (no pun). She was just saying that she will never be able to retire. She will have no pension and she hasn't been able to put much of anything away. Did I mention she was an accountant? She is afraid of trying to find another job in her 50's.
I went through years of not being happy at work for one reason or another but always knew that due to the untion I would continue to make money, I would not be fired and could retire comfortably. If got called at home or even e-mailed a question, I got compensated for it.
iris lilies
4-18-16, 9:25pm
No, men mostly get stagnated in lower-end jobs. Women get promoted. In my area there were three promotions given out since I started. All three went to women -- one had only been there two years and was not especially experienced or highly educated. Gay men also seem to fair quite well.
The glass ceiling is very, very high. Only the top spot at the tip-top seems out of reach for women. And the stiletto ceiling appears to not exist at all.
For the most part, straight white dudes are an afterthought. So this is one workplace where feminism was overwhelmingly victorious.
ah well, I guess it is our turn?
Seriously, do you think that your anecdotal information proves that white(non gay) men are the new victims? Hey, they may be for all I know if it is important to identify winners and losers, but I suspect it's more likely that the 3 women/gays you cite were a better fit than hiring team more than any straight men who applied.
I'd be interested in seeing proof of the 70 cents on the dollar meme. After 43 years in the workplace, I've never seen it when all things are equal, other than the sex of the employees.
Freakonomics did an episode of their podcast about this recently. One of the things they found was that women are less willing to take positions that require as much time/travel commitments. So a man will take an account management position that requires/expects him to be willing to go out of town on short notice or put out a fire at 4:45 that will take 3 hours extra office time to resolve, but women with family needs such as caring for children won't. So the woman who doesn't want to make that commitment to random, or significant overtime, and travel time requirements will end up taking a position that doesn't require that commitment but also doesn't offer the same salary as the position that requires it. And both jobs may have the same title. I doubt that accounts for the entire pay difference between men and women (men have been found to be more likely to negotiate for a better salary for instance) but it probably accounts for at least part of the difference.
Anecdotally this makes sense to me. I have a coworker who used to have my same role, but in the midwest. She HATED all the travel because she had a very small child at home. Personally I love the travel because a change of scenery is nice, being out of the office is nice, etc. And SO is at least somewhat capable of cleaning the kitty litterbox when I'm gone. Coworker ended up transferring to a different position that required no travel and no overtime. It's officially one job grade above mine (and her previous one) but she took the position for the same salary she was getting previously.
iris lilies
4-18-16, 9:48pm
Freakonomics did an episode of their podcast about this recently. One of the things they found was that women are less willing to take positions that require as much time/travel commitments. So a man will take an account management position that requires/expects him to be willing to go out of town on short notice or put out a fire at 4:45 that will take 3 hours extra office time to resolve, but women with family needs such as caring for children won't. So the woman who doesn't want to make that commitment to random, or significant overtime, and travel time requirements will end up taking a position that doesn't require that commitment but also doesn't offer the same salary as the position that requires it. And both jobs may have the same title. I doubt that accounts for the entire pay difference between men and women (men have been found to be more likely to negotiate for a better salary for instance) but it probably accounts for at least part of the difference.
Anecdotally this makes sense to me. I have a coworker who used to have my same role, but in the midwest. She HATED all the travel because she had a very small child at home. Personally I love the travel because a change of scenery is nice, being out of the office is nice, etc. And SO is at least somewhat capable of cleaning the kitty litterbox when I'm gone. Coworker ended up transferring to a different position that required no travel and no overtime. It's officially one job grade above mine (and her previous one) but she took the position for the same salary she was getting previously.
Since you are introducing facts into the discussion, other non-Freakonomics studies show that part of the gender pay disparity is tied to women being out of the workplace for some years while they do the SAHM thing. As such they do not gain experience nor do they build up seniority.
And then, it's not only travel-out-of-town jobs they turn down, it is stay-at-the-office-until-midnight managerial jobs that women choose not to pursue.
There is another major factor in gender disparity pay that influences the situation, but I can't remember it now.
So I will tell my gender pay story. I was much younger, and working as a supervisor. My peer, a man, was also a supervisor with the same pay grade, same span of control (budgets and personnel.) He made a fair amount more than I did. I guess that was discrimination.
Or was it? He had moved to that job from an organization that paid him more than the salary I made at my previous employer. So when he came in, they had to offer him more. When I came in, they didn't. I didn't negotiate either because it was a raise, I was happy with the offered salary, whatever.
Later the organization underwent gender review of jobs and I scored a 14% raise. For no other reason than the fact than I have certain body parts.
But we deserve it.
I'll also say that if the millennials I work with are typical of the whole generation this will resolve itself over the next however many years. They are all perfectly comfortable discussing their salaries with each other despite the fact that our employer discourages this. Personally I think this is a good thing.
Honestly I love that there are some shifts and changes in the workplace. I haven't felt like a victim, I did choose a more female dominated field and I know that pay is based on experience years, higher education, and performance. However the factors that personally affected me were personal. I just have difficulty seeing how I could have done male style work over the years. I didn't have support for it, and my ex was totally supported in what he did. This is not a victim statement because in the process of divorce I held my own and got a very fair financial settlement.
I guess I see 'soft factors' that I may have been able to work through but when faced with the stress level and lack of support from multiple areas of my life I just couldn't pull it off. I think I am really good at what I do, and I like it. It seems that it has taken a variety of shifts culturally and in business so that younger people have a better chance of being paid equitably.
...
I went through years of not being happy at work for one reason or another but always knew that due to the untion I would continue to make money, I would not be fired and could retire comfortably. If got called at home or even e-mailed a question, I got compensated for it.
Exactly. I whine a lot about my HSSJ, but had exactly the same experience, so I really have nothing to complain about.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.