View Full Version : Politics and Friendship
Recently, I've seen pieces at both Slate and the New York Times talking about friendships strained or broken by differing political views. I remember this happening in past elections: people insisting, for example, that they couldn't see reconciling with anyone so morally bankrupt that they could vote for the arch-fiend Bush.
The difference this year, however, seems to be largely intramural, with Democrats arguing with Democrats and Republicans Republicans. I myself got into it last night with a Trump supporter. Him arguing his guy was a bold truth-teller who would defy ossified party dogma and PC orthodoxy. Me arguing that he was dangerously stupid. I've also seen some pretty heated stuff in comments sections with Democrats calling each other misogynists, sell-outs, dupes and "on the wrong side of history".
I was curious if others out there were seeing the same thing.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/the_democratic_primary_ruined_my_friendship.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/opinion/campaign-stops/friendship-in-the-age-of-trump.html?_r=0
catherine
4-29-16, 12:01pm
I think that this year we are bonding with the extremities of both parties--usually politicians are just politicians. This election cycle, two of them are potential saviors and the others are "Lucifer in the flesh" and talking about politics with friends is bad enough, but mixing it with "religion" is a double whammy.
My husband and I typically cancel each other's votes out, but my DIL bought DH a "Make America Great Again" hat as kind of a joke because she and he are the only Republicans in the family. DH refuses to wear it because a) he think Trump as president would be a disaster and b) he doesn't want to get beat up. We have a lot of liberal friends. Hanging out with our liberal/hippie friends wearing his US Marines hat is as far as he will go. Wearing a Trump hat is definitely crossing the line.
facebook..........I am always wondering how I can be friends with others who seem to lump all Democrats into the "crazy liberal" category.
Most Democrats in the south are pretty conservative.......
ApatheticNoMore
4-29-16, 12:36pm
b) he doesn't want to get beat up. We have a lot of liberal friends. Hanging out with our liberal/hippie friends wearing his US Marines hat is as far as he will go. Wearing a Trump hat is definitely crossing the line.
at least you don't have Mexican or Muslim friends ... whose ostracism of a Trump hat would be because the guy hates their very existence .... and other small concerns ..
Ultralight
4-29-16, 1:05pm
facebook..........I am always wondering how I can be friends with others who seem to lump all Democrats into the "crazy liberal" category.
Most Democrats in the south are pretty conservative.......
DINOs.
Ultralight
4-29-16, 1:09pm
I don't have any right-wing friends in irl.
In college I had a few. We'd have debates -- both formally and informally. We got along fine otherwise. I thought they were wackos. They thought I was a nutcase. All was well! haha
And back then I was extremely active politically.
I will say this. In 2004 I vocally toyed with voting for Nader. All my liberal friends dumped me.
I then went to them one-by-one and said: "Will you take me back if I vote for the very French-looking John Kerry?"
They all said:: "Yes, but you have to be public about your intent to vote for Kerry and to no longer vote for Nader."
For real.
iris lilies
4-29-16, 1:41pm
Im not surprised that intra-party fighting is heated.
The worst, mist vitriolic political fights happen during primaries. There are deep seated hatreds formed during same-party campaigns that do not go away over a lifetime. Weve had someheavy duty Republican in-fighting in the past 3 years. Two suicides were the result of that crap.
When pols are up against the other party, they all know thats just politics as usual, no one takes the rhetoric personally.
iris lilies
4-29-16, 1:52pm
I don't have any right-wing friends in irl....
Is that by design?
I really cant imagine limiting friendships to one political point of view. I find that most people are reasonable and are on a spectrum of wanting the same things for their country, their community, their family.
How we get that stuff is where we differ. When I look at what we all share as common goals, its not hard to figure them out when I broaden my view. I grow very tired of the silly characterizatins of the "other side" that I read and hear daily, from both sides. However, I think the Trumps, Fiorinas, Clintons, et al deserve every critiscism they get.
Ultralight
4-29-16, 1:58pm
Is that by design?
It is not by design. It is what I would call a confluence of circumstances. Columbus proper is a very liberal city -- especially socially. My social circles are based on atheism/secular humanism and voluntary simplicity/minimalism. These two areas tend to attract mostly liberal folks, and in a liberal city the effect is compounded.
There is one atheist guy I know who is right-wing, but we're not friends. We just don't have anything else in common.
I know a libertarian and we're nominally friendly, but we just don't have much in common.
I'd estimate my circle at about 70/30 GOP/Dem, with a fairly large proportion of the Dems associated with the education industry or non-profits. We weathered Scott Walker's conflicts with the teachers' unions and university system pretty well, and I think they consider me more misguided than malicious.
My GOP acquaintances seem pretty well lined up behind Cruz, although I wouldn't say enthusiastically. The Dems seem pretty evenly split between populists for Bernie and feminist identitarians for Hillary (maybe along generational lines, as well). Being the hopeless case that I am, I seldom get drawn into intra-Dem arguments (probably don't want to give me the satisfaction).
It's funny how we tend to self-segregate.
I don't have any right-wing friends in irl.
If you ever decide to visit real life, we'll try to make you feel welcome.
Ultralight
4-29-16, 2:18pm
If you ever decide to visit real life, we'll try to make you feel welcome.
Likewise! haha
I can tolerate plenty of differences in political opinion. What I can't do is countenance fascism. Donald Trump represents a unique historical threat. His getting elected would be bad--not George W. Bush bad, but Fort Sumter, Great Depression, Pearl Harbor, 9/11 bad.
What's happening on the Democratic side in this campaign isn't remotely comparable to what's going on with the Republicans. The Dems are engaging in the usual sniping, and will kiss and make up in short order and field a candidate who is sane, whether you like her politics or not. The Republicans are about to nominate a demagogue who represents an existential threat to the country.
ApatheticNoMore
4-29-16, 4:33pm
Cruz/Fiorina almost makes Trump look good though - a theocrat and a war monger. But I wouldn't expect the targets of Trump's hate to be ok with it. If you think your white liberal hippy friends get offended by a Trump hat, wear it in front of one of the groups Trump hates - and no it's not them.
His getting elected would be bad--not George W. Bush bad, but Fort Sumter, Great Depression, Pearl Harbor, 9/11 bad
which to an Iraqi is George W Bush bad (actually death toll of Iraqis in the Iraq war is of course orders of magnitude higher than most of those, well I don't know how many the Great Depression killed maybe a lot but ...).
Williamsmith
4-30-16, 2:41am
I see an equal disgust for the lack of quality available in both parties. And I see a reluctance to open up a conversation any deeper than who is least likely to make things worse. The people I am with are normally very conservative but they even see themselves unrepresented almost like the train is off the tracks so no use complaining about the conductor. We are now just being entertained.
My defInition of friendship has possibly gone awry. It more closely resembles an alliance. Mark Twain mused, "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anyone will side with you when you are in the right." That kind of friendship while not inspiring romantic visions of sharing similar views will survive almost anything except being asked to lend money.
Still the next month or two might expose weak friendships because you can't continue to spread imbecilic rhetoric without a large group catching cold. California just might be the Petri dish where bacteria will grow.
I honestly don't have a lot of political diversity in my friends and family. I work in an urban school district in a community that is gentrifying. I also work under grant funding so my colleagues and I are in it for the impact we have on low-income, diverse communities. Pretty liberal, also supportive of bringing your lunch every day and shopping at goodwill. I think my brother and family are pretty conservative, my nephew posts on FB but doesn't appear to like Trump. I have one FB friend who supports Trump and I decided to keep that bit of diversity.
What I have been saying for months though is that the republicans and conservatives really have no one. I feel bad for them, there is no real debate about issues with Trump around. I hope that a lot of conservatives stand up for a real conservative agenda that is not about hate, then I have something real to argue against.
Aqua Blue
4-30-16, 10:08am
One of my brothers is VERY opinionated about his political views. EVERY family get together is one long dialog of his views, with name calling to me because I do not agree. I pretty much am not around him unless my other brother is there to handle him. Other brother is much more diplomatic, altho we don't agree 100% he respects that is the American way. The right to have your own opinion.
Unfortunately I can not think of a single friend locally who isn't of the party that "obviously ALL Christians" would pick... I try to keep my mouth shut and sit where I can leave if I can't stand it anymore. And I have slipped out on many occasions. I moved back to this very conservative part of the country 10 years ago. I knew it would be hard, but it has been harder than I expected. I can take differing opinions, but I get tired of feeling like I am not entitled to a differing opinion. It is a constant topic of conversation here, rarely not coming up at every get together and particularly bad during an election year when it is pretty much the only topic.
Edited to add: Luckly, my dog shares my political views. At least he never says anything against them.
AB, I feel for you. I know my parents think that I could just move to Iowa if Denver wasn't working (mostly housing cost) but I KNOW I could not. I have lived places like you have and it was terribly difficult. Even in the most conservative places I found a couple people that I could relate to. I also got a reputation in that small town for my views and personality. Sigh,
I can't imagine it being a constant topic, at least with my group I know which people want to have the conversations (and we mostly agree) and don't talk about it to others.
Chicken lady
4-30-16, 12:10pm
We live in a very conservative area. I have to pass two trump signs on the half mile drive to buy my hay.(from a guy who put out a trump sign)
When dd went to high school she got into a discussion about a political issue with a classmate. She made a comment that caused her classmate to say "Wait! Your parents are DEMOCRATS?!" To which dd replied " no, my father is a republican and my mother is insane." (Like Bernie Sanders, I think we can own guns and provide a social safety net!)
but here, dh is no longer a republican. Because he's not a Christian, and he believes in gay rights (only he calls them human rights and applies them to anybody who can score higher than a bonobo on a dna test) also access to health care for women. So the republicans don't want him anymore.
i'm not very good at being friends with anybody, so politics isn't so much a deciding factor.
AB, I feel for you. I know my parents think that I could just move to Iowa if Denver wasn't working (mostly housing cost) but I KNOW I could not. I have lived places like you have and it was terribly difficult. Even in the most conservative places I found a couple people that I could relate to. I also got a reputation in that small town for my views and personality. Sigh,
I can't imagine it being a constant topic, at least with my group I know which people want to have the conversations (and we mostly agree) and don't talk about it to others.
Thanks for the kind words. I have found myself becoming more and more a recluse here. It is easier than dealing with it.
I actually thought I was pretty middle of the road until I moved back here. I do believe that all persons should have the right to the pursuit of happiness, so I believe in gay rights etc. I am personally against abortion, but really think it is a rather non issue. The Republicans give lip service, but they were in office for 8 years and nothing at all changed. I don't think that every poor person is out to milk the system, some are just poor. I think there should be some safety nets available.. I like Obama and like Obama care, which is just about intolerable around here.
All I can say is don't go back to Iowa!!
Teacher Terry
4-30-16, 2:17pm
I lived in Kansas for awhile and it was mostly republican-ugh! However, when I lived in Wis most people I knew were democrat and where I live now I have a few republican friends and a republican hubby:~). We don't talk politics. Most of my friends here are democrats although the state as a whole is republican. We had a couple that we were friends with for years and never talked politics since we didn't agree. Then a few years ago the hubby starts to bring it up all the time and him and I get into a huge fight. Then his wife and i say no talking about politics. That works for awhile and then she bring sit up the last election and tries to convince me to vote for Romney. shortly after I ended the 16 year friendship. They also are against all social programs because other people will help poor people. Mind you they never help anyone and I have done much helping of others. people can't replace social programs. I got sick of hearing about that too. And what is really rich is that the wife was helped by a program when she was newly divorced that I worked in so she got free help/things.
iris lilies
4-30-16, 2:20pm
...All I can say is don't go back to Iowa!!
While I myself am an escapee from Iowa, there is nothing wrong with its political climate. Some of you must have forgotten that Iowans embraced your President Obama before others. No fan of Hillary were they. I recently read a political writer who lamented the fact that a few thousand voters in Iowa have more influence on World history due to the Iowa Caucuses than the entire country of France, but I don't think thats a bad thing. I trust Iowans more than the French with these important decisions.
The smug, self congratulatory posts here are funny, but I know that people on all political spectrums speak the same way so I will not pin it in any one political persuasion.
In closing, let me hold you all in the light, hoping that no one has to endure the ignoble experience of passing a Trump for President sign on the highway.That's gotta be brutal. Fortunately, I am safe from that here in my electric blue city. Here in the murder capital of the country our main n threat is simply being shot, there's not a Trump sign to be seen for miles.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 2:53pm
Honestly, given the area I live in, I don't really have this problem. To vote other than Democrat would be being disloyal and disrespectful to your friends and neighbors and family and also to social class. Most people are not going to cross party lines when it was the Dems who expanded Medicaid in states where that took place. I don't live on the street I used to at the moment but I live in a very similar area one bump up the ladder if that and it's the same here.
It's very hard to see myself supporting a Republican - though I did have nice things to say about Arizona's Jan Brewer - with people who I've done health care runs down to Mexico with and people with whom I'm on a phone tree with in regards to witnessing/reporting/recording any police contact/misdeeds.
Being in league with others in these ways, you lose all faith in America and you focus on what party may be best for your friends and family and neighbors. In the zip code 85006 that would be the Democratic party. (Though I want to be fair and state that I truly respect Republican Jan Brewer for fighting for Medicaid expansion in Arizona......that was pure class in my book, and yes, I did say that about a Republican.) Lol, call me radical. Rob
The smug, self congratulatory posts here are funny, but I know that people on all political spectrums speak the same way so I will not pin it in any one political persuasion.
In closing, let me hold you all in the light, hoping that no one has to endure the ignoble experience of passing a Trump for President sign on the highway.That's gotta be brutal. Fortunately, I am safe from that here in my electric blue city. Here in the murder capital of the countey, our man n threat is simply being shot, not a Trump sign to be seen for miles.
Yes, they are funny. To the uninitiated, this thread could go a long way towards convincing them what horrible people Republicans or Conservatives must be.
I learned my lesson about political signs during the buildup to the first GWB election when the local liberals shot up my sign, and my house, with paint pellets. It was probably justified though, I mean, who wants Republicans in their neighborhood?
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 3:09pm
Yes, they are funny. To the uninitiated, this thread could go a long way towards convincing them what horrible people Republicans or Conservatives must be.
I learned my lesson about political signs during the buildup to the first GWB election when the local liberals shot up my sign, and my house, with paint pellets. It was probably justified though, I mean, who wants Republicans in their neighborhood?Alan, I want you to know that I would not do this to you or any other conservative. In my book you get to believe as you wish.....without any hassle or direspect. All I ask is that you try to understand that whenever I see any Republican advertising, what flashes through my mind is fear of America, citizens not being worth access to health care - though Jan Brewer admittedly was an exception to this - and the inexcusable invasion of Iraq. With few exceptions, this is what the Republican party means to me. I can understand what drives people to paint pellet your property - I am not the only one out there for whom the Republican party is a source of fear - though I don't approve of your property being pelleted, if that's a word. Rob
Alan, I want you to know that I would not do this to you or any other conservative. In my book you get to believe as you wish.....without any hassle or direspect. All I ask is that you try to understand that whenever I see any Republican advertising, what flashes through my mind is fear of America, citizens not being worth access to health care - though Jan Brewer admittedly was an exception to this - and the inexcusable invasion of Iraq. With few exceptions, this is what the Republican party means to me. I can understand what drives people to paint pellet your property - I am not the only one out there for whom the Republican party is a source of fear - though I don't approve of your property being pelleted, if that's a word. Rob
Rob, thanks for not approving of the property damage, even if it is completely understandable. ;)
Gardenarian
4-30-16, 3:48pm
I don't really know any conservatives, but there is some tension between the Sanders and Clinton supporters.
The Sanders folks can be quite vicious about Clinton, whereas I see the Clinton supporters as more "I'd prefer Clinton, but I'll be happy to vote for Bernie if it comes to that."
If you say you support Clinton, people demand to know your reasons, explain why you are misguided, and try to convert you to Sanderism.
I don't think there is a great deal of difference among the democratic candidates, and I don't understand why some are so zealous about Sanders.
As for the Republicans, they are just all over the map.
My niece (dh's niece, no blood relation thank goodness) posted on Facebook a video of her and her fiance taking Trump bumper stickers and sticking them on other people's Sanders and Clinton stickers. I am glad she lives on the other side of the country. I don't get into this kind of stuff on FB (I hardly use it) but IRL I would certainly call her out on this kind of behavior.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 3:52pm
Rob, thanks for not approving of the property damage, even if it is completely understandable. ;)Alan.....please understand I didn't trivialize your property rights and I didn't say "completely" understandable. I said just plain understandable. Big diff. I have known fear of America (with all due respect, have you?)and I can understand the fear that compels people to such acts. Once again, I didn't say I approved. I will say that if you live close to me and had conservative signage in your yard, I would have the basic respect to completely leave you alone. It would be as if you didn't exist. That, to me anyway, having experienced what I have in America, shows a very high level of respect......as I said, with me, you get to believe as you wish. Fear would prevent me from being neighborly with you, though. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 4:00pm
I don't really know any conservatives, but there is some tension between the Sanders and Clinton supporters.
The Sanders folks can be quite vicious about Clinton, whereas I see the Clinton supporters as more "I'd prefer Clinton, but I'll be happy to vote for Bernie if it comes to that."
If you say you support Clinton, people demand to know your reasons, explain why you are misguided, and try to convert you to Sanderism.
I don't think there is a great deal of difference among the democratic candidates, and I don't understand why some are so zealous about Sanders.
As for the Republicans, they are just all over the map.
My niece (dh's niece, no blood relation thank goodness) posted on Facebook a video of her and her fiance taking Trump bumper stickers and sticking them on other people's Sanders and Clinton stickers. I am glad she lives on the other side of the country. I don't get into this kind of stuff on FB (I hardly use it) but IRL I would certainly call her out on this kind of behavior.I'm All for Sanders and his message very much resonates with me.....I can understand some of the zealousness of Sanders supporters as here we have a politician who "gets it" - Hillary not so much. That said, I'll take Hillary any day over any of the current crop of Republicans....the neighborhood Halloween party over on the street I lived on before getting married? Some of the women are talking of dressing up as Carly Fiorina and I think that's so.....appropriate. I mention this to show how here any Den will get the vote. Rob
Iowa politics are not bad, pretty strongly Democrat but mostly I am encouraged that the state takes voting seriously. Most of my family there is Democrat as well, lots of people who work in education and social services which tends to be liberal. Mostly I really like where I live, a diverse urban area (Denver is not as diverse as some places but still more than Iowa). A lot of it is social, I just feel more comfortable in a diverse area, that is as a white person. I like my meditation groups and my access to health foodie restaurants, everything. When I visit the mid-west I go back I feel out of place,
Alan, I have said before but I do want to say directly that I feel bad for traditionally conservative voters, I have had respect for people who differ politically. I feel that the party has been deeply affected by things that do not have to be part of a fiscially or socially conservative POV. However at this point I do feel afraid (I have not felt afraid of conservatives before this last year or so). Regardless of what other people think I have had transgender, gender fluid and racially diverse friends since I was a child. My family is from Iowa but I spent my formative years in Oakland CA, my friends were not all white then and they are not now. That does not need to be part of a conservative platform but Trump has been so obviously racist that I am called to speak up and say this does not need to be part of any party.
I don't really know any conservatives, but there is some tension between the Sanders and Clinton supporters.
The Sanders folks can be quite vicious about Clinton, whereas I see the Clinton supporters as more "I'd prefer Clinton, but I'll be happy to vote for Bernie if it comes to that."
.
I love Sanders, I am just so happy that someone who holds views like mine has survived politics for so long. Some of what I learned this last year tells me he can work WITH people to get things done by the number of bills he has been part of. No one gets a bill without working with a lot of other people. Still I am about to turn off the news feeds of some of my Bernie friends, I would definitely support Hillary. I was willing to support her when she was up against Obama.
Alan.....please understand I didn't trivialize your property rights and I didn't say "completely" understandable. I said just plain understandable. Big diff. I have known fear of America (with all due respect, have you?)and I can understand the fear that compels people to such acts. Once again, I didn't say I approved. I will say that if you live close to me and had conservative signage in your yard, I would have the basic respect to completely leave you alone. It would be as if you didn't exist. That, to me anyway, having experienced what I have in America, shows a very high level of respect......as I said, with me, you get to believe as you wish. Fear would prevent me from being neighborly with you, though. RobSo, if I ran into you at a party and attempted to exchange pleasantries, I'd be wasting my time?
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 4:22pm
So, if I ran into you at a party and attempted to exchange pleasantries, I'd be wasting my time?Where I live we wouldn't run in the same social circles and would thus be extremely unlikely to meet at a social event. I really could not see this happening in the 85006. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 4:26pm
Where I live we wouldn't run in the same social circles and would thus be extremely unlikely to meet at a social event. I really could not see this happening in the 85006. RobBut I didn't really answer your ?, did I? I respect you for the work you have voluntarily done here and hope that if we were to meet, we would understand we would BOTH be bringing very different perspectives and outlooks to the table. If you went too far politically, out of respect for your work here, I would disengage and run. Rob
iris lilies
4-30-16, 4:49pm
Alan, some people don't get out much, and diversity is a buzzword to describe only a certain kind of "differentness,", a palatable kind. That's what Im learning on this thread.
I used to see it all the time in my neighborhood, little political diversity, and it worked well for the 99%. For 15 years everyone we knew were politically liberal with the exception of about 12 people. We all knew who voted Republican. Then, the housing boom hit and our neighborhood became toney. People with money and expectations about crime control and safety and community and polished public structures moved in. They had big jobs, they were concerned about the crappy public schools and taxes going up with no appreciable increase in services. And now there are many more people voting Republican than we know. I know this because the Republican committeeman sends out numbers for each Presidential election by ward and precinct.
So its no longer "safe" for my neighbors to stand around at a neighborhood drinks party and assume that they are with their own kind. The token diversity that DH and I used to provide here has been usurped by a bigger population. Gosh, I wnder if my "progressive" neighbors are feeling all of the "fear" expressed on this thread? Even though they are still the huge majority, is it scarey to them to be less than 99%?
Sorry, I can't relate to the seemingly constant level of fear that some of you express.
Sorry, I can't relate to the seemingly constant level of fear that some of you express.
My county is ~65% hard-core "progressives", and many people will cross the street to avoid interacting with you if they think you are a Republican. Apparently they'd like to put us on the sex-offender list or something.
When I went as a delegate to the Republican convention last presidential election cycle, a whole bunch of people stopped talking to me.
Wacky.
I still show up to put out their houses when they are on fire, cut them out of their auto wrecks, and provide emergency medical care. Maybe I shouldn't, it might be causing them additional stress...
There is at least one Democrat that I know of in the neighborhood. But most just ignore his rants. He's mostly harmless.
What I have issue with is not so much the difference of opinion, but that EVERY conversation turns to politics. It seems very disrespectful to me. They know that I have differing views, I never start the conversation, but we still end up there every time. When I know someone has differing views on something I don't bring it up every time, I try to talk about our common ground. There are so many other things to talk about, I try over and over to change the subject and no it goes right back. At a couple of things I attend it is pretty much the only topic of conversation.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 6:22pm
There is at least one Democrat that I know of in the neighborhood. But most just ignore his rants. He's mostly harmless.Just like I ignore the Filipino couple two streets over that are hardcore conservatives and pariahs at the neighborhood meetings and in the neighborhood in general. It's too bad as they are from Manila - a low cost city I'd like to know more about - but their behavior at the neighborhood meetings coupled with how rude they have been to the cashiers at the Hispanic grocery store a few blocks away? I am sure they are totally harmless.....
I'm almost certain of this. But major creepy factor.....I can find out about Manila elsewhere. I guess every neighborhood has such a couple or person....here they are Republican, where you are they are Democrat. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 6:41pm
While I myself am an escapee from Iowa, there is nothing wrong with its political climate. Some of you must have forgotten that Iowans embraced your President Obama before others. No fan of Hillary were they. I recently read a political writer who lamented the fact that a few thousand voters in Iowa have more influence on World history due to the Iowa Caucuses than the entire country of France, but I don't think thats a bad thing. I trust Iowans more than the French with these important decisions.
The smug, self congratulatory posts here are funny, but I know that people on all political spectrums speak the same way so I will not pin it in any one political persuasion.
In closing, let me hold you all in the light, hoping that no one has to endure the ignoble experience of passing a Trump for President sign on the highway.That's gotta be brutal. Fortunately, I am safe from that here in my electric blue city. Here in the murder capital of the country our main n threat is simply being shot, there's not a Trump sign to be seen for miles.I went to the big annual book sale this year at the state fairgrounds in mid February.....it's something I look forward to every year as it's basically Christmas for book loving introverts. Anyway, when I left I walked over to a bus stop outside the fairgrounds. I passed a booth giving out free t-shirts......there was a time in my life when basic clothes were very dear to me and I'm not one to forget this. But I passed up the free t-shirt. It said TRUMP on it and I couldn't justify wearing it, even if it was for free and even if I only used it for yard work or painting. Trump has just said too many scary things for me to take a freebie from his campaign, and given my economic background, that truly is an insult. Rob
I went to the big annual book sale this year at the state fairgrounds in mid February.....it's something I look forward to every year as it's basically Christmas for book loving introverts. Anyway, when I left I walked over to a bus stop outside the fairgrounds. I passed a booth giving out free t-shirts......there was a time in my life when basic clothes were very dear to me and I'm not one to forget this. But I passed up the free t-shirt. It said TRUMP on it and I couldn't justify wearing it, even if it was for free and even if I only used it for yard work or painting. Trump has just said too many scary things for me to take a freebie from his campaign, and given my economic background, that truly is an insult. Rob
I think there's probably just too many ways to arrange letters, we could use more very strict rules in that regard. If they're arranged improperly on our clothing or yard signs they're a threat to our well being and may even cause our neighbors to fear us.
The same should apply to symbols or images. I propose going forward we only allow images of Che Guevera on our t-shirts. His legacy is such a source of inspiration to many who fear that Republicans may line them up against a wall and execute them.
rosarugosa
4-30-16, 7:12pm
I have friends that span the spectrum from Trump to Cruz to Clinton to Sanders. I guess I can live with a diversity of viewpoints, although I am squarely in the Sanders camp myself. I would never be able to vote for Hillary and I'm amazed she has done so well given her low ratings for trust and integrity.
The guy across the street has a Trump bumper sticker, but a few years ago I helped him rescue a bunch of ducklings that had fallen into a storm drain, and he risked serious injury to save them.
The folks I know who support Trump are frightened - of ISIS, of 9/11 type events, and Trump somehow seems to offer them reassurance and safety.
Hey Rob, there's some irony there, don't you think? A different take on The Fear Factor.
We are pretty complex creatures, and apparently candidates can appeal to different voters for different reasons.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 8:26pm
I have friends that span the spectrum from Trump to Cruz to Clinton to Sanders. I guess I can live with a diversity of viewpoints, although I am squarely in the Sanders camp myself. I would never be able to vote for Hillary and I'm amazed she has done so well given her low ratings for trust and integrity.
The guy across the street has a Trump bumper sticker, but a few years ago I helped him rescue a bunch of ducklings that had fallen into a storm drain, and he risked serious injury to save them.
The folks I know who support Trump are frightened - of ISIS, of 9/11 type events, and Trump somehow seems to offer them reassurance and safety.
Hey Rob, there's some irony there, don't you think? A different take on The Fear Factor.
We are pretty complex creatures, and apparently candidates can appeal to different voters for different reasons.Thank You. Your post has really made me think. I honestly had not thought Trump supporters could be also coming from a place of fear. Yes indeed I see irony there. And I can also understand fearing 9/11 events.....I don't find that out there at all. My fears as I've droned on and on....not being worth health care so those at the top can be yet wealthier. Not having enough money to leave the US so that I don't have to work until death. Fear of the police and their excessive unchecked powers. I wonder if there is any overlap with Trump supporters fearing the same? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 8:42pm
I think there's probably just too many ways to arrange letters, we could use more very strict rules in that regard. If they're arranged improperly on our clothing or yard signs they're a threat to our well being and may even cause our neighbors to fear us.
The same should apply to symbols or images. I propose going forward we only allow images of Che Guevera on our t-shirts. His legacy is such a source of inspiration to many who fear that Republicans may line them up against a wall and execute them.I get the point you are trying to make here Alan though the problem is the name Trump is scary to some part of the population. It just is, like it or not. No rationalization or explanation will make this go away. Trump chose to draw lines in the sand that would attract some and that would repel some - consider myself and most people I know in the latter camp. No one forced him to draw these lines - that was his choice. And here is a consequence of that choice. Complete and utter disgust and distrust in the 85006 (and other Phoenix zip codes but yes I'll give you certainly not all). Rob
Williamsmith
4-30-16, 8:47pm
True friends don't argue about politics. Hell, they don't even discuss it. Now acquaintances get in fights every day.
gimmethesimplelife
4-30-16, 8:53pm
True friends don't argue about politics. Hell, they don't even discuss it. Now acquaintances get in fights every day.I would tend to agree with you. Where I live it's assumed you are a Democrat and some bonding is done with neighbors and people you know and don't know all that well about the latest Republican faux pas (nice way of putting it, no?) Certainly trashing Republicans is not the only thing people bond over, though. And the people closest to me know very well where I stand on things so there's much less need to discuss politics. Rob
I saw this posted elsewhere:
1944: 18 year olds storm the beach at Normandy facing almost certain death.
2016: 18 year olds need a safe place because words hurt their damn feelings.
i guess it's just not the 18 year olds that have a problem.
Certainly trashing Republicans is not the only thing people bond over, though. Probably not, although I'm sure it saves a lot of time and provides a great foundation for long term relationships.
Chicken lady
4-30-16, 9:38pm
dmc, maybe it's like the allergen theory - Kids have more allergies because their environments are cleaner and their bodies had no real germs to fight.
i really like republicans. I would probably really like Alan irl, but I mostly don't agree with them. Otoh, many of the people "on my side" drive me nuts. I have the same situation with gender.
early morning
5-1-16, 10:27am
I like some people all over the political spectrum, but not ALL of them.... I get along well with people who actually THINK about their political stance and have well-developed reasons for their beliefs, even if I don't agree. People of all sides who just parrot crap from FOX of HuffPo and are led by fear of whatever - they drive me nuts, even if they're ardent supporters of the candidates I support. I don't like the "my way or get out" types of any sort - that's not what this country is all about. I am a liberal, and an atheist, although I keep the later under wraps most of the time - it's not a safe thing to be here. Liberal is much safer, lol. But this is a very conservative township - for a while, I was one of only 6 registered Democrats. Then my kids reached voting age, DH dumped the Bush machine, and we almost doubled that count, lol. Now there are more of us, but it's still very conservative. My yard signs are stolen or defaced regularly. I've been run off the road (and I'm NOT a pansy driver!) twice. But nothing more drastic than that. I get along really well with the old local farmers - I grew up with old farmers so we speak the same lingo, though we don't farm. They are good, hard-working folk, and we have a tacit agreement to ignore politics. Religion, not so much.
True friends don't argue about politics. Hell, they don't even discuss it. Now acquaintances get in fights every day.
I value most my friends who challenge my beliefs, opinions and biases on any particular subject, politics included. Self-segregation or taboo topics only leads to the sort of intellectual poverty that results in idiocies like "safe spaces". Why live in terror of contradiction?
Williamsmith
5-1-16, 10:44am
I value most my friends who challenge my beliefs, opinions and biases on any particular subject, politics included. Self-segregation or taboo topics only leads to the sort of intellectual poverty that results in idiocies like "safe spaces". Why live in terror of contradiction?
I have friendships that don't require explanations of any sort. I know what they think of any political topic and how they would respond to new issues. Our friendship transcends politics. Admittedly, a friend like that is rare and few. Political topics are not taboo or self segregated.......they are immutably resolved. We may discuss what the best caliber for dispatching a white tailed deer is or the best rod and fly pattern to use for brook trout. We might even argue about it. But we long discarded political discussion as too unnecessary and frivolous to waste on our brief times together.
I think again we are suffering from a difference in definition.
ToomuchStuff
5-1-16, 10:50am
I think there's probably just too many ways to arrange letters, we could use more very strict rules in that regard. If they're arranged improperly on our clothing or yard signs they're a threat to our well being and may even cause our neighbors to fear us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
I listened to two of my family who agree more then they don't. This election they both agree there are no good choices, and both are on opposite extremes. One would vote for one who would "shake things up", that the other one would vote for someone more diplomatic, who the first person has dealt with and won't vote for that liar.
I think a vote of none of the above, a vote of no confidence, to tell both parties to remove the heads from their rectums. I see this as another Perot shakeup, only in "their" not our parties.
Teacher Terry
5-1-16, 4:27pm
Destroying property and crossing the street to avoid people just boggles my mind. People sure can be childish. With my republican friends we just agree to disagree and don't discuss it. Hopefully, there is more to a friendship then thinking the same way politically.
gimmethesimplelife
5-1-16, 5:41pm
Destroying property and crossing the street to avoid people just boggles my mind. People sure can be childish. With my republican friends we just agree to disagree and don't discuss it. Hopefully, there is more to a friendship then thinking the same way politically.I don't entirely disagree with you and on one level I'd even agree that such behavior is childish and that I am guilty of this myself. There, I've admitted it. That said, in my regular daily life I don't often run across conservatives - though if I were seeking them out they would be a short bus ride away, I admit that, too. Most of what I do in my life is done in areas that are democrat heavy even if I am in a red state for the most part. Another point I'd llke to bring up for the conservatives here - the Republic party for some of this country's population comes with a reputation which precedes it, much as American police in general do. That may not be very nice but I don't see Republicans making any real efforts to bridge this gap with the lower classes. That too said, once again, with me you get to believe as you wish. I don't believe in harassing people for differences - being gay I learned real quick that was not something that worked for me. Disagree with me all you want.....just don't expect me to agree with conservative thought very often. Rob
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