View Full Version : 7-1/2 minutes of fame and our shrinking world
Random post...
I'm watching Dancing with the Stars and the NFL superstar Von Miller didn't know who Elvis is. Then of course there was that famous incident in which Kanye West's fans were happy that he gave the "unknown" Paul McCartney a chance at fame by singing a duet with him.
Yes, it makes me feel old, but I also recall criticism of the internet that that we now self-select our information and therefore miss out on the broad context of what is going on in the world.
I'm not saying that every young person needs to know Elvis or the Beatles--but it seems our worlds are getting smaller, and fame is more and more fleeting. Maybe there is no qualitative reason people should know John Hancock or Shakespeare or Elvis. What do you think?
Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.
Williamsmith
5-3-16, 12:03am
People have Facebook and social media to help them pretend they themselves are famous. They don't have time to admire other really famous people.
People have Facebook and social media to help them pretend they themselves are famous. They don't have time to admire other really famous people.
This.
Miss Cellane
5-3-16, 6:24am
That's a very good point, Williamsmith.
And also, there is access to so much more information these days that it is hard to pick and choose.
And the two people mentioned in the OP? Entertainers. I didn't know the movie stars my parents talked about. They didn't know the singers their children idolized. Unless you search out the history of entertainment, you won't know anything about it. It's not taught in schools. If those same people didn't have a clue who Herbert Hoover was, that's when I'd start to worry.
Von Miller may not know who Tchaikovsky is either. Fifty years from now, if civilization hasn't collapsed, most people will still know of Elvis, The Beatles, Glenn Miller, and Tchaikovsky but Von Miller's name will probably be lost. He's just a football player. Many of the younger people I know realize that music from the late 60's and early 70's was especially good. What I worry about is that football players are some of the last hero roles left for kids. Astronauts are commonplace, explorers have explored most everything, and presidents and politicians have sullied their profession.
I'm more concerned when I hear dribbles of tests and surveys where young people don't know who fought in WWII, why Nixon resigned, or what the Cuban missile crisis was about.
And the two people mentioned in the OP? Entertainers. I didn't know the movie stars my parents talked about. They didn't know the singers their children idolized. Unless you search out the history of entertainment, you won't know anything about it. It's not taught in schools. If those same people didn't have a clue who Herbert Hoover was, that's when I'd start to worry.
I agree--it was just startling to me to hear of these particularly famous entertainers just falling through a hole in the culture--when they actually were so instrumental in building the culture--at least the music culture.
And, yes, more concerning is the fundamental knowledge about people who have truly changed the world. Or even key dates in history. Younger people have absolutely no clue when the Declaration of Independence was signed--for us 1776 rolls off our tongue without thinking of it. Again, perhaps there's no reason that they NEED to know this.. but it seems to speak to the realignment of priorities--even in schools. My son is a history teacher in a community college, and history programs are being cut. And as shadowmoss said...
I agree that Facebook is a culprit, and is part of that self-selection process that is cutting us off from the rest of the world. It actually makes me think that I have to try harder to read more daily papers.
Von Miller may not know who Tchaikovsky is either. Fifty years from now, if civilization hasn't collapsed, most people will still know of Elvis, The Beatles, Glenn Miller, and Tchaikovsky but Von Miller's name will probably be lost. He's just a football player. Many of the younger people I know realize that music from the late 60's and early 70's was especially good. What I worry about is that football players are some of the last hero roles left for kids. Astronauts are commonplace, explorers have explored most everything, and presidents and politicians have sullied their profession.
I'm more concerned when I hear dribbles of tests and surveys where young people don't know who fought in WWII, why Nixon resigned, or what the Cuban missile crisis was about.
I certainly agree with you that there is a big difference between having an understanding of our core cultural foundation (although reasonable people might disagree about what to include) and pop ephemerata. I absolutely agree with you that we'd be a better, stronger society if we chose our heroes from our soldiers, scientists and philanthropists rather than ballplayers, pop-singers and actors.
And I absolutely agree that we would be well-served by a better general understanding of history. Perhaps that would have eliminated some of the rank nonsense being spouted in connection with our current electoral process.
ApatheticNoMore
5-3-16, 11:56am
Fame at 20th century levels is mostly an aberration. People used to entertain themselves by playing the family piano or making music together as a tribe. Probably far better, ok also better than facebook posting, although sometimes all people can make time for these days in facebook posting. Listen to Elvis and the Beatles, but you must go to see the unknown act playing locally next Saturday.
I'm sitting here thinking about how I knew about my parents' references. I am thinking a lot of it comes down to just plain and simple conversations and listening to each other. We actually sat at a table and talked with each other. We saw our parents' record albums. We saw the books they read. My kids know who my idols were because I talked about them and they saw my tapes and records and CDs. Heck, my youngest daughter gave me a beautiful collector album of Leon Russell's she found last year for my birthday.
I watched baseball with my dad and know many names of players from the 60s and forward because of our shared interest.
Now, we're more isolated within ourselves, staring at our individual screens, eating on the run and listening to downloaded music with earbuds.
That's a very good point, Williamsmith.
And also, there is access to so much more information these days that it is hard to pick and choose.
And the two people mentioned in the OP? Entertainers. I didn't know the movie stars my parents talked about. They didn't know the singers their children idolized. Unless you search out the history of entertainment, you won't know anything about it. It's not taught in schools. If those same people didn't have a clue who Herbert Hoover was, that's when I'd start to worry.
Of course everyone knows who he is. The maid uses his invention every week when she comes to clean.
ApatheticNoMore
5-3-16, 2:12pm
It used to be much better, when your parents taught you all their pop cultural influences but the music you liked was Satan's tongue (or at least complete garbage). Ah the good old days ....
I had a reminder today of family musical groups. My father played trumpet and I was a horn student. Mother played piano. Our next door neighbor had a small band that was similar with an accordion. I had friends and families of friends I would visit and play a little music. I don't think any one was unusually good, but just enjoyed playing music together. Those were fine family events I don't think face book can ever top.
An educated person knows a little bit about a lot of things. It depends on a persons level of curiosity and the tools they use to learn. I became fascinated with modern Italian culture in the last three years, I knew little at first, but by reading, watching, listening and doing, I've acquired some knowledge. I learned about Italian wines by going to wine tasting classes. I learned about Italian cooking the same way. I read many modern stories based in Italy by expatriates. I study the language. I took several courses in music appreciation about classical music and opera. I finally made a trip over. I still have a lot to learn. I've attended several operas and love it. I am not fluent in language at all, but so what?
It's up to people to motivate and educate themselves by podcasts, dvd's, talking to people and the public library. I am not unusual, just motivated to know and fill in the gaps. I knew almost nothing about Italy's role in the 2nd world war, now I have basic knowledge and am fascinated with what the people went through. I learned by reading and listening.
Rather than saying, I don't know about a topic, get off FB and use the great tools all around us to expand the mind.
An educated person knows a little bit about a lot of things. It depends on a persons level of curiosity and the tools they use to learn. I became fascinated with modern Italian culture in the last three years, I knew little at first, but by reading, watching, listening and doing, I've acquired some knowledge. I learned about Italian wines by going to wine tasting classes. I learned about Italian cooking the same way. I read many modern stories based in Italy by expatriates. I study the language. I took several courses in music appreciation about classical music and opera. I finally made a trip over. I still have a lot to learn. I've attended several operas and love it. I am not fluent in language at all, but so what?
It's up to people to motivate and educate themselves by podcasts, dvd's, talking to people and the public library. I am not unusual, just motivated to know and fill in the gaps. I knew almost nothing about Italy's role in the 2nd world war, now I have basic knowledge and am fascinated with what the people went through. I learned by reading and listening.
Very cool! :+1:
I was intrigued by conversations I heard about Muhammed Ali this week. Some only knew him as that guy who lit the Olympic torch some years ago, but didn't really get why it was a big deal. Others (the majority older athletes and activists) shared what an influential personality he was, the Greatest.
I agree, the world does seem smaller, but I think it's more that our perspectives are narrower somehow out of necessity (too much to absorb).
My hometown is quite the shrunken world. There are about 3 main families. Multiple generations of them live in this town. There are a total of about 235 people there.
They bumble around aimlessly, working dead-end jobs mostly. They hunt, fish, grow gardens. They ride bikes around town to visit family and friends and family/friends. They are clannish and avoid leaving town. They don't make friends with outsiders. They keep it white and right, though some are Democrats -- conservative ones.
They have no desire to leave the US, to visit exotic places, to encounter interesting and different cultures. Their world is really just that little town, their provincial hobbies, their kin, and seemingly unreal entertainment on screens.
My hometown is quite the shrunken world. There are about 3 main families. Multiple generations of them live in this town. There are a total of about 235 people there.
They bumble around aimlessly, working dead-end jobs mostly. They hunt, fish, grow gardens. They ride bikes around town to visit family and friends and family/friends. They are clannish and avoid leaving town. They don't make friends with outsiders. They keep it white and right, though some are Democrats -- conservative ones.
They have no desire to leave the US, to visit exotic places, to encounter interesting and different cultures. Their world is really just that little town, their provincial hobbies, their kin, and seemingly unreal entertainment on screens.
But they do get to enjoy being mocked by their betters, there's lots of good entertainment value there.
ApatheticNoMore
6-8-16, 4:34pm
It sounds like if everyone lived like they did the U.S. wouldn't use more resources than most other countries in the world. So maybe their politics is a problem, but their lifestyle certainly isn't and should probably be emulated.
But they do get to enjoy being mocked by their betters, there's lots of good entertainment value there.
Who are their betters?
Miss Cellane
6-8-16, 5:04pm
I was intrigued by conversations I heard about Muhammed Ali this week. Some only knew him as that guy who lit the Olympic torch some years ago, but didn't really get why it was a big deal. Others (the majority older athletes and activists) shared what an influential personality he was, the Greatest.
I agree, the world does seem smaller, but I think it's more that our perspectives are narrower somehow out of necessity (too much to absorb).
I grew up knowing Muhammed Ali as a draft dodger.
Who are their betters?The phrase itself is something of a misnomer, implying those who look at a group of several hundred people, see into their souls, their dreams and aspirations as a group and makes pronouncements about them as if they were nothing more than a redneck version of the Borg. Someone like that probably considers themself their better.
My hometown is quite the shrunken world. There are about 3 main families. Multiple generations of them live in this town. There are a total of about 235 people there.
They bumble around aimlessly, working dead-end jobs mostly. They hunt, fish, grow gardens. They ride bikes around town to visit family and friends and family/friends. They are clannish and avoid leaving town. They don't make friends with outsiders. They keep it white and right, though some are Democrats -- conservative ones.
They have no desire to leave the US, to visit exotic places, to encounter interesting and different cultures. Their world is really just that little town, their provincial hobbies, their kin, and seemingly unreal entertainment on screens.
Perhaps you're confusing basic contentment with provincialism?
Perhaps you're confusing basic contentment with provincialism?
Maybe... but I am not certain that provincialism is always a good or bad thing. I think it depends which province you are in. :)
Here is what I mean: I think often about being more rooted in place, developing a sense of place (home even...).
I could perhaps emulate the better parts of these folks from my hometown. By not flying to other nations I leave a smaller carbon footprint. By biking around I can further conserve the environment and get a work out. I could get a community garden plot again.
But I could also excise the undesirable parts from their lifestyle. I could lay off the screen-staring. They love screens. I don't.
Have you read the book Ecotopia? I'd call most Ecotopians provincial. But in a good way.
I'd call most rural West Virginians provincial in a bad way. I say this not absolutely though, I say it illustratively.
I'd call most rural West Virginians provincial in a bad way. I say this not absolutely though, I say it illustratively.
Illustrative of what? That they're more interested than you are in television and less interested than you are in redistributive politics?
Illustrative of what? That they're more interested than you are in television and less interested than you are in redistributive politics?
That mostly, yeah.
I grew up knowing Muhammed Ali as a draft dodger.
When I was growing up that was my parents' main opinion of him as well. Now that I'm an adult and have learned more about that war I think it was rational for people to refuse to serve. Given the ease with which people from families with money could get out of serving I don't think there was anything good or right about agreeing to be cannon fodder for a stupid war. Thankfully I was too young to potentially have to make a decision like that. If I had it might well have permanently destroyed my relationship with my father, a vet from the Korean War (although he served in Germany, not Korea) who at that time was of the opinion that people should serve, no questions asked, if drafted.
I grew up knowing Muhammad Ali as a draft dodger.
I remember thinking it was strange to have to start calling him Muhammed Ali after we had all known him as Cassius Clay. I didn't pay that much attention to him at the time because I was never into boxing, but looking back, I have a lot of respect for him.
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