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peggy
5-9-16, 9:34am
Well not really unwanted but un-needed and a bit awkward.
This next weekend we are having a bbq/party that some people may give gifts for but we never do. Still some people always show up with a gift no matter what we say. I know that their hearts are in the right place but it makes for an awkward moment for us and for anyone else who came without gifts, which is most of the guests.
Usually I try to open it quickly, thank them then move on but again, it's awkward for our other guests. I wonder if there is a better way to handle it? Acknowledge the gift and giver without making anyone else feel bad for not bringing anything, which we never want them to do in the first place.
Anyone have a good way to handle this?

Ultralight
5-9-16, 9:58am
A good way? A way that is not awkward?

That is going to be tough. :(

Are you good enough friends that you could really sit down with these folks and talk straight with them?

ToomuchStuff
5-9-16, 10:16am
An unwanted gift? You mean a burden?

iris lilies
5-9-16, 10:25am
Peggy, I agree with you on this, and I am always up for a discussins on obligatory gifting.

Anyway, I wonder if it is necessary to open the gift at the party? I would say brightly "Thank you so much! We'll open this later!" And set it aside. That will regulate the gifting to a very minor event.

Ultralight
5-9-16, 10:31am
Anyway, I wonder if it is necessary to open the gift at the party? I would say brightly "Thank you so much! We'll open this later!" And set it aside. That will regulate the gifting to a very minor event.

Tact in action.

catherine
5-9-16, 10:46am
Peggy, I agree with you on this, and I am always up for a discussins on obligatory gifting.

Anyway, I wonder if it is necessary to open the gift at the party? I would say brightly "Thank you so much! We'll open this later!" And set it aside. That will regulate the gifting to a very minor event.

That's exactly what I would do. If I bring a gift somewhere on a purely voluntary basis, I would have no expectation for my gift to be opened and acknowledged at the party.

Float On
5-9-16, 10:58am
Well...if I could tell it was a bottle of wine or a food item I'd open it right then to allow everyone to enjoy.


It use to be when we were invited anywhere I would box up a glass ornament we'd made and then I'd hide it somewhere in the hosts house for them to find later as a "thank you for inviting us to the party" gift. I don't think I would ever make a showy presentation in front of others. I think the funnest one was a dear friend who had her guest bathroom done tastefully in Zebra. We happened to regularly make a 6" tall zebra sculpture. I took a zebra to her next party and left it on a shelf in her guest bathroom. She didn't notice it for 3 weeks! That was a fun phone call when she finally realized what we'd done.

iris lilies
5-9-16, 10:58am
Last week there was a Miss Manners column about gifting. The person querying Miss
Manners started out by saying that there is a movement toward minimalism, and people do not want gifts or objects not of their choosing. I thought that Miss
Manners has missed the point, that when people dont want objects not of their own choosing, they dont want objects not of their own choosing! Period. I am not aware that this translates into "give me money, or fund my vacation."

Here is the text of the question, and Miss Manners' answer:


Q: As I’m sure you’re aware, there is a trend toward decluttering and minimalism. This has resulted not only in the idea that it’s rude to give a gift that wasn’t specifically asked for, but also that it’s perfectly acceptable to ask the prospective giver for “experiences” instead of things — e.g., gift certificates for dinner or a spa visit, or cash toward a vacation.
I feel that it’s rude in any case to make such requests, but what if the prospective giver asks what you’d like to have? Is it acceptable to answer honestly?
A: Yes, unfortunately, Miss Manners is all too aware of yet another manifestation of greed in the name of “gift-giving.”(And the irony that people are being covetous to avoid appearing covetous is not lost on her.)
That it should be considered rude to give a present that was not previously demanded is not only an affront to manners, but also to syntax. What else is a gift, but something that is given willingly?
But as you seem to be the rare creature who understands this, Miss Manners will help you to be honest and to demur, if the demurring is executed correctly.
Only when asked (preferably repeatedly), a celebrant may say, “Oh, I just have so many things, I’m really just looking to relax a bit after the graduation/birthday/wedding. Do you know any good places?”
If done correctly, this will appear to be merely conversation aimed at gaining expertise. However, smart listeners who are presumably on the alert for present ideas will see that they can facilitate the delivery. And you will have achieved your goal — without making rude demands.

catherine
5-9-16, 11:09am
I think Miss Manners' point is it's rude to put any conditions on gifts. To her point:


That it should be considered rude to give a present that was not previously demanded is not only an affront to manners, but also to syntax. What else is a gift, but something that is given willingly?

So to that point, any gift that comes across the transom at the party, IMHO, should be accepted with grace and gratitude, and then quietly put to the side.

razz
5-9-16, 11:35am
Could the gifting be managed discreetly? I am noticing that some organizations are collecting "twonies" aka $2 coins to support an local event or cause. If anyone feels inclined to donate a gift, please consider the twonie jar. Is there a better way to phrase this as it seems kind of clumsy?

ApatheticNoMore
5-9-16, 11:51am
Yea ask for food or wine if you can. And enjoy it yourself or share it.

iris lilies
5-9-16, 12:24pm
Could the gifting be managed discreetly? I am noticing that some organizations are collecting "twonies" aka $2 coins to support an local event or cause. If anyone feels inclined to donate a gift, please consider the twonie jar. Is there a better way to phrase this as it seems kind of clumsy?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

razz
5-9-16, 1:20pm
I'm not sure what you mean here.
If gifting is going on and accepted within a community, try to find a way of directing the gift to keep it modest, simple to do and meeting another's need to gift.

iris lilies
5-9-16, 2:02pm
If gifting is going on and accepted within a community, try to find a way of directing the gift to keep it modest, simple to do and meeting another's need to gift.

its nice in theory, but isnt practical a lot of times because

1) the gifter is hell bent on physical objects, it is an object or its not a fit gift in their minds

or

2) its not at all practical to direct people who are bringing small gifts to our homes--and thats where the majority of crap comes from

catherine
5-9-16, 2:15pm
I think a lot of people have been raised with different "rules" and they don't feel comfortable breaking with that. So if you mother always brought a hostess gift, you might field compelled to do the same.

Another example: I was at a college reunion and one of my friends married a managing partner of a big consulting firm and her son works there. I mentioned to her that one of my former colleagues' daughters just got a part time job there, with the probability of going full time in a few months. So my friend suggested that his daughter reach out to her son. I told my colleague about it and he was very grateful.

Right after that, he said, "by the way, I have a friend who needs market research help. Can I tell her about you?" My friend is Asian and I was wondering if perhaps this kind of quid pro quo is common in Asia. In other words, would he have connected me with his friend if I hadn't connected his daughter with my friend? Did he feel obligated to do so?

iris lilies
5-9-16, 2:19pm
I still like the attitude of the upper class Victorians: its rude to give gifts to people you don't know intimately.

ah, that we could return to that time and place.

catherine
5-9-16, 2:20pm
I still like the artitude of the ipper class Victorians: its rude t gift people you don't know intimately.

ah, that we could refurn to that time and place.

hear, hear!

Dhiana
5-9-16, 4:38pm
Sadly, I finally stopped inviting people over.

They were always bringing alcohol, which I think is a fine gift to bring over to share with everyone but I always had a lot leftover. We couldn't consume that much on our own nor do we have the space for all that.
Then I had a get together to have people drink it up, specifically stating we're moving, please drink/take as you desire. Plenty of unopened bottles to choose from, too.
We had even more after that BBQ.
Sigh.

That was it for me.

peggy
5-9-16, 4:45pm
I still like the attitude of the upper class Victorians: its rude to give gifts to people you don't know intimately.

ah, that we could return to that time and place.

Yes, yes. I do like the idea of thanking them and setting it aside to open later. I had actually thought of that except...isn't there always an 'except'...our crowd is a particularly global crowd, from all over, and I'm not sure if doing that would offend. Several are Indian, as in from India. Not sure of their protocol of gifting. I don't really know them very well, certainly not well enough to sit them down and assure them we don't need, or want anything. But I know of at least one couple who have indicated they have a gift for us. Any Indians here who can guide me on this?
The Germans are fine with their flowers...always appreciated. And hostess gifts are also fine. Several I know always bring a bottle of wine or food. The food i put out with the other food and the wine I put out if it fits the menu or tuck back for later enjoyment. I myself never go empty handed...childhood training. But it's almost always flowers or wine.

Thing is, this is an 'occasion' type party. Our anniversary actually, and a big one at that. I wish my hubby had just invited folks to a bbq without saying what we are celebrating. We really see it as our celebration, and the way we want to spend it is with our friends. (but to be honest, we would have found another reason to have a big party anyway) Too late now of course. Hopefully the ones who plan to gift come early so we can deal with it quietly and quickly.

No, it's not a burden. Friendship is never a burden. Just a little awkward.

iris lilies
5-9-16, 4:47pm
Sadly, I finally stopped inviting people over.

They were always bringing alcohol, which I think is a fine gift to bring over to share with everyone but I always had a lot leftover. We couldn't consume that much on our own nor do we have the space for all that.
Then I had a get together to have people drink it up, specifically stating we're moving, please drink/take as you desire. Plenty of unopened bottles to choose from, too.
We had even more after that BBQ.
Sigh.

That was it for me.
I know!

We give dinner parties where I end up with more alcohol than when we started. Two friends have stopped drinking (weight control and medication are the reasons) and iris is always known for liking a bottle of red. Hence, they bring wine, but don't drink it.

and then, weve hosted big neighborhood parties where we end up with half drunk bottles of wine, and a couple of 6 packs. This, coupled with the alcohol we bought means we have too much damned alcohol, and the beer goes to sit in in our basement dor months.


We are a nation of excess.

peggy
5-9-16, 4:51pm
Oh, don't get me started on the beer! The husband always buys way too much beer and several folks brings some as well. My summer fridge is always stuffed with beer. I hate that. I don't drink the stuff and certain guys shouldn't since it seems to go directly to the waist.
Thank goodness we host several big parties during the summer and fall or we'd never get rid of it.

SteveinMN
5-11-16, 9:04am
Interesting how many people have no problem quickly purging any number of items in their homes which are no longer wanted or useful to them, but alcohol in bottles received from well-wishers warrants precious storage space and holding additional get-togethers to get rid of it. Why is that?

iris lilies
5-11-16, 9:12am
Interesting how many people have no problem quickly purging any number of items in their homes which are no longer wanted or useful to them, but alcohol in bottles received from well-wishers warrants precious storage space and holding additional get-togethers to get rid of it. Why is that?

I have come very close to driving the unwanted beer downtown to give out to the homeless guys hanging out in parks. I contemplate it. I haven't done it, I don't think. I've thought about it so often that it's hard to remember if I actually did that, or not!

Funny, I have no problem throwing out food. Well, liquor (spirits) lasts forever, so that's something.

Teacher Terry
5-11-16, 1:42pm
WE bring either food or drink when we go to a party if we bring something and we don't every time. Our friends do the same. If we don't drink the alcohol then we do another time. Our crowd doesn't do gifts and sometimes you just go and bring nothing. It is very casual and fun. We have people over a lot and I really enjoy it. More fun then going out and cheaper. Also yu don't have to worry about tying up a table for a long time.

Ultralight
5-11-16, 2:04pm
My BIL cannot resist free stuff. So when people (usually my parents) give me an unwanted gift, I say: "Hey, BIL... I don't want this. I think I might throw it away or donate it."

And then he says: "I don't want it or need it. But if you are just going to throw it away or give it away, then I guess I will take it."

Then it sits in his garage!

freshstart
5-11-16, 5:17pm
I always bring a dish (asking first), flowers or wine. I was raised that way and feel very uncomfortable going to anything but the most casual of get togethers with nothing. People are probably cursing my wine. Well, my friends? Probably not so much, lol

Gardnr
5-12-16, 7:10am
Here's my take (I think that your are hosting the party): Let's say I am hosting and you hand me a gift:

Peggy, it is so sweet of you to bring us a gift. I open it right then. Thank you so very much, this was very thoughtful of you and so very unexpected. We will certainly enjoy this.

It sends the message that it's unnecessary. It shows genuine appreciation. And if it's an item that can be used during this event you will see it used.

There will always be gift givers. Your other friends will hear genuine appreciation AND that they were not expected to bring a hostess gift. Everyone wins and no one has to feel bad.

We all need to be gracious receivers as well as gracious givers.

SteveinMN
5-12-16, 9:25am
We all need to be gracious receivers as well as gracious givers.
This. For some people, giving gifts is (part of) their love language. If someone is speaking to you, it's never kind to either seem like you're ignoring them or to tell them bluntly to 'shut up'.

Teacher Terry
5-12-16, 11:17am
UL: You would be doing your BIL a service if you don't tell him about the stuff you want to get rid of and just get rid of it. Otherwise you are contributing to a problem. Ugh!

Ultralight
5-12-16, 11:26am
Not my problem.

Teacher Terry
5-12-16, 11:53am
I would think that due to your upbringing that you should not want to contribute to the same problem for your sister and BIL. My MIL was a hoarder and never did I give her stuff I didn't want. In fact she would offer me stuff and I would take it knowing it was going right to the thrift store. Also it seems to me that they have been kind to you in many ways like living with them. It does not have to be your problem-you can choose to be kind and thoughtful.

Ultralight
5-12-16, 12:18pm
I would think that due to your upbringing that you should not want to contribute to the same problem for your sister and BIL. My MIL was a hoarder and never did I give her stuff I didn't want. In fact she would offer me stuff and I would take it knowing it was going right to the thrift store. Also it seems to me that they have been kind to you in many ways like living with them. It does not have to be your problem-you can choose to be kind and thoughtful.

Hmmm...

That is a valid point.

My sis does not like when I give my BIL stuff because he always takes it.

Dhiana
5-12-16, 12:33pm
Interesting how many people have no problem quickly purging any number of items in their homes which are no longer wanted or useful to them, but alcohol in bottles received from well-wishers warrants precious storage space and holding additional get-togethers to get rid of it. Why is that?

I have yet to see a charity shop with a liquor aisle :)

SteveinMN
5-13-16, 9:25am
I have yet to see a charity shop with a liquor aisle :)
True. But I would not be beyond regifting or even pouring out the contents and recycling the container.

sweetana3
5-13-16, 9:43am
If we get white wine or hard spirits, we generally just give it to friends. Wont drink it, why keep it. Friends have adult kids that they can give it to if they don't want to drink it. Note: This whole thing is a rare occasion in our life.

Cypress
5-17-16, 9:33am
A simple thanks and put the gift aside to open later on. If you are greeting guests and doing bbq things, you have to focus on that task first. It's just a gesture of returning hospitality, they are grateful to be invited and show it with a gift.

I'd be thrilled someone took a moment to think of the hosts. I guess keep a mental note on the gift giver and return it in kind if invited to their house. Or, send a thank you note. I like old fashioned manners. It doesn't matter what it is, I believe it's the thought that counts.

Teacher Terry
5-17-16, 1:24pm
It is common with our group of friends to bring wine for a small dinner party and then we consume it right then. If we get too much we save it for another function or drink it. If we have a big b-bque people will ask what they can bring and i either say nothing or let them contribute like a salad, etc. Just depends how I am feeling. WE also sometimes do potlucks where the host has the main course and then the others bring the side dishes.

peggy
5-17-16, 4:00pm
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. It was a lovely party, although too cold and windy for my taste. (And in the middle of May!)
Several people did bring gifts ranging from wine/food to crystal. Fortunately, most just put them on a side table in the house and then went out to join the rest of the party. As I was buzzing in and out I peeked at them and made a point of quietly thanking the givers. Followed by a note the next day of course. (See, I really do know how to do it.)

We truly have such wonderful friends. I don't want to give the impression that I feel they or their gifts are a burden. Never. I just didn't want the 2/3rds who didn't bring gifts to feel awkward for not bringing anything. That was my only worry. I would hate for any of my friends to feel uncomfortable. Really, it never occurred to us when we invited folks to celebrate this with us that they would see it as a gift giving type occasion. It only came up when someone indicated they would be out of town but had a gift for us. This is when we realized the mistake we made and when I posted here.

Steve: Really? Pour it out? Come on...now that would truly be wasteful wouldn't it. Not to mention disrespectful to the giver.

peggy
5-17-16, 4:13pm
It is common with our group of friends to bring wine for a small dinner party and then we consume it right then. If we get too much we save it for another function or drink it. If we have a big b-bque people will ask what they can bring and i either say nothing or let them contribute like a salad, etc. Just depends how I am feeling. WE also sometimes do potlucks where the host has the main course and then the others bring the side dishes.

This is the usual MO for our parties.
We have hosted many birthdays, anniversaries, graduations, etc...for friends as our place is well suited for large parties, and gifts were given at these. But gifts for the honored guests, not us. This was the first time we were celebrating our own milestone, so to speak. (we prefer our birthdays, etc be small family things)
I never turn down a bottle of wine or contributed food, but those are usually understood as a contribution to the party. Really, anymore you can't throw a party without everyone bringing some sort of food or drink. Even if you tell them to only bring an appetite, they bring food. It's pretty much the norm now. Actually I do the same thing so I can't complain. Now when we have a party I let everyone know what's on the menu. That way they know what would go food and drink wise. it also gives the heads up to any with special dietary requirements. We have a few vegetarians in the group and I usually try to have at least one 'main' dish they can eat, but I don't go overboard with this.

SteveinMN
5-19-16, 9:05am
Steve: Really? Pour it out? Come on...now that would truly be wasteful wouldn't it. Not to mention disrespectful to the giver.
Yes, really, pour it out. This site is chock-full of threads with people ridding their homes of 10, 30, 100 items in short periods of time. There often is advice given about accepting an undesirable gift and then re-gifting it out of that friend network or donating it to Goodwill or the like. People here seem to have no problem moving on items they don't want.

Trouble is, alcohol comes with all kinds of restrictions on where it can go. If you don't drink it and there's no one else to whom you can pass it on and Sally Anne won't take it, you're going to enshrine it in your house forever? The last resort is to empty the bottle and recycle it. Tact suggests you don't do it as soon as you get the gift. It's OK to wait.

As for "disrespectful to the giver", once a gift is given, it belongs to the recipient and they get to decide what to do with it. And, again, this does not seem to be a problem for other kinds of gifts; only for booze. I don't understand that. If you don't want it in your house, it shouldn't be in your house, whether it's a bottle of Scotch or a ceramic figurine or a Popeil Pocket Fisherman.

peggy
5-19-16, 10:12am
Well, you do have a point Steve. We do seem to make different rules for booze.
Since we do drink wine, and it keeps, the bottles will go into our wine rack to be enjoyed later. As for the beer, we're having another party in a few weeks and it should go for that. I just need to stand strong and convince my hubby we don't need to buy any more! He always worries about not having enough.

Teacher Terry
5-19-16, 3:20pm
i would think that if you don't drink you would know someone that did and gift it to them. If you get a figurine you don't want you donate it which is different then throwing it away. When we got married I bought a variety of liquor and bought a ton of beer. I was used to Wis weddings where everyone drinks beer. Well this is Nevada and not the case. We had beer for a couple of years.

Gardnr
5-20-16, 9:52am
Yes, really, pour it out.

This site is chock-full of threads with people ridding their homes of 10, 30, 100 items in short periods of time. As for "disrespectful to the giver", once a gift is given, it belongs to the recipient and they get to decide what to do with it. And, again, this does not seem to be a problem for other kinds of gifts; only for booze. I don't understand that. If you don't want it in your house, it shouldn't be in your house, whether it's a bottle of Scotch or a ceramic figurine or a Popeil Pocket Fisherman.

I concur with Steve. It is interesting that some people would consider specific items must be retained. I suppose you could let that stuff own you?

catherine
5-20-16, 10:04am
I agree that there should not be anything sacrilegious about pouring alcohol down the drain. That topic might be a great whole other thread: "Simple drinking"?

As most know, I have a strong family history of alcohol abuse/alcoholism, but I am not like some whose pendulum swung the other way after experiencing the negative consequences of alcohol. I'm not alcoholic, but I do have a glass of wine often during the week, very unapologetically.

But I have to admit, I saw this chart once, and it alarmed me to think that I'm in the 8th decile (some weeks, ninth) of alcohol consumption in the US!

This is definitely a thread hijack, so if anyone would be interested in responding let me know and I'll put make a new thread.

Seemed to fit in with Steve's reply and the reaction it got.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/10/141007_MEDEX_drinksChart.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg

JaneV2.0
5-20-16, 11:05am
I'm near the bottom, but I'm erratic. I buy a bottle of brandy; I may have a shot a few times a week--so maybe between the 4th and 5th decile. When the bottle's gone, I forget about alcohol for months. I haven't been tipsy since I was in my thirties. I don't drink enough for it to affect me for good or ill. That top decile is scary--I wonder what percentage of tipplers that represents. Also, it would be interesting to see how we stack up against other countries.

iris lilies
5-20-16, 11:58am
... That top decile is scary--I wonder what percentage of tipplers that represents. Also, it would be interesting to see how we stack up against other countries.

I drink 2 - 3 bottles of red wine a week. Thats in the scary 8-10 section.

While Im not actively worried about my relationship with alcohol, I DO pay attention to it.

I never drink and drive. We are at home or in the neighborhood, usually. And then, DH isnt a drinker so he is always designated driver whever we are.

It just occurred to me that a drinks and gardening event I am attending tomorrow is out in the county, and DH was called away. Hmmm, I will have one glass since
I have to drive.Hopefully, this will be an active event with interesting things happening.

iris lilies
5-20-16, 12:03pm
I have little family involvement in alcohol, I am 62 years old, and so its unlikely Ill turn into an alchoholic at this late stage.

just yesterday I was marveling to myself about how my sister in law had an alcoholic mother and sil doesnt drink at all. Same thing for my cousin. Then I learned yesterday that Donald Trump does not drink be ause he had an alcoholic brother who died early in life. Serving as a cautionary tale provides a useful role in society for thse heavy drinkers, somewhat mitigating the huge damage they do.

JaneV2.0
5-20-16, 12:06pm
There's a big difference between two drinks a night and ten. When I was a young drinker, I might drink several drinks over a five or six hour period, but if I had ten I wouldn't be walking. Looking back on my partying days, it's a wonder nothing disastrous happened to me.

Geila
5-20-16, 12:14pm
I agree that there should not be anything sacrilegious about pouring alcohol down the drain. That topic might be a great whole other thread: "Simple drinking"?

As most know, I have a strong family history of alcohol abuse/alcoholism, but I am not like some whose pendulum swung the other way after experiencing the negative consequences of alcohol. I'm not alcoholic, but I do have a glass of wine often during the week, very unapologetically.

But I have to admit, I saw this chart once, and it alarmed me to think that I'm in the 8th decile (some weeks, ninth) of alcohol consumption in the US!

This is definitely a thread hijack, so if anyone would be interested in responding let me know and I'll put make a new thread.

Seemed to fit in with Steve's reply and the reaction it got.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/10/141007_MEDEX_drinksChart.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg

How could someone have 73 drinks a week???

jp1
5-20-16, 12:36pm
How could someone have 73 drinks a week???

It's doable but not in any sort of healthy living context. Augusten Burroughs is an author who has written a number of autobiographical books about his very messed up childhood and the resulting effects it has had on his adult life. In his early adult years he was at first a functional alcoholic and eventually a full blown, seriously drunk 24/7 alcoholic. From the quantities mentioned in his books he was likely drinking quite a bit more than 73 drinks/week. Possibly double that or more. Needless to say, he would most likely be dead by now if he hadn't stopped drinking.

JaneV2.0
5-20-16, 12:50pm
Lung cancer statistics, by country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/lung-cancers/by-country/

Alcohol deaths, by country:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/alcohol/by-country/

iris lilies
5-20-16, 12:52pm
There's a big difference between two drinks a night and ten. When I was a young drinker, I might drink several drinks over a five or six hour period, but if I had ten I wouldn't be walking. Looking back on my partying days, it's a wonder nothing disastrous happened to me.

But two glasses of wine puts me into the 8th nearly 9th category. Part of this measure is: is it really every night, without fail? If it is, that may be a near-problem needing watching. That's where I am.

JaneV2.0
5-20-16, 1:10pm
But two glasses of wine puts me into the 8th nearly 9th category. Part of this measure is: is it really every night, without fail? If it is, that may be a near-problem needing watching. That's where I am.

I suppose that might be considered a dependency, worth keeping an eye on.
Nobody wants to be an addled oldster taking a tumble down the stairs.

I worry about younger people, hitting the booze hard and frequently and not thinking a thing of it--all in the name of "entertainment."

Teacher Terry
5-20-16, 3:09pm
My Grandma never drank because she had a father and daughter die of it. I never drank at all until my mid 40's because I was too busy raising kids, going to college and working. If we have more then 1 drink when out we either walk home or uber it. when we were in Italy people would have a glass of wine with lunch and then a nap and then go back to work. But because of the long break in the middle of the day they ended up working until 7pm.

Teacher Terry
5-20-16, 3:12pm
both times we were in Poland people can really put away the liquor and seem fine. They always do a lot of eating, snacking with it like meats, cheese and bread. They love their Vodka.

catherine
5-20-16, 3:32pm
But two glasses of wine puts me into the 8th nearly 9th category. Part of this measure is: is it really every night, without fail? If it is, that may be a near-problem needing watching. That's where I am.

I'll tell you where I am. If I ever have research in St. Louis, IL, you and I should meet at a wine bar!
:)

Teacher Terry
5-20-16, 3:33pm
I am coming too:~)

Gardnr
5-21-16, 9:50am
I'm between 7 & 8. Work nights I have 1 and occasionally a 2nd. Weekends I generally have 1 and sometimes 2 or 3. Yesterday I was off work to celebrate my double-nickel birthday. I had 3 drinks. Why? I bought myself a bottle of Irish Cream. I will have a shot in last cup of morning every day I do not work until it's gone. Then after work my usual Vodka/cran. And yes, sometimes a 2nd.

THere are days I don't have a cocktail in the evening but those days are few. Do I think it's a problem? No. The difference being: Do I feel I HAVE to have the cocktail vs, do I WANT to have that cocktail. There is a physical need for those with the alcohol gene (yes there is a genetic marker for alcoholism).

Gardnr
5-21-16, 9:52am
Not my problem.

Really? You feel great about giving him stuff and contributing to the problem you state that he has? That is called enabling.

Mary B.
5-21-16, 11:00am
I think a lot of people have been raised with different "rules" and they don't feel comfortable breaking with that. So if you mother always brought a hostess gift, you might field compelled to do the same.

Another example: I was at a college reunion and one of my friends married a managing partner of a big consulting firm and her son works there. I mentioned to her that one of my former colleagues' daughters just got a part time job there, with the probability of going full time in a few months. So my friend suggested that his daughter reach out to her son. I told my colleague about it and he was very grateful.

Right after that, he said, "by the way, I have a friend who needs market research help. Can I tell her about you?" My friend is Asian and I was wondering if perhaps this kind of quid pro quo is common in Asia. In other words, would he have connected me with his friend if I hadn't connected his daughter with my friend? Did he feel obligated to do so?

Catherine, I think a sense of obligation is one possibility, but not the only one. Here's a couple more. 1. The person you were talking to was reminded of you through the conversation -- "I like this person! And hey, doesn't she do market research? And hey, Friend was looking for someone to do that!" 2. The person you were speaking to was reminded that you someone who cared about other people -- enough that you have some idea of what a former colleagues' daughter is doing quite specifically, when a lot of people might have no idea that a former colleague had
a daughter -- and thought, "This is the kind of person I want to recommend to my friend."

I think quid pro quo arrangements are common most places, but as much as anything it's about strengthening ties in a network and coming to see each other a little differently, rather than a this-for-that obligation.

catherine
5-21-16, 11:46am
Catherine, I think a sense of obligation is one possibility, but not the only one. Here's a couple more. 1. The person you were talking to was reminded of you through the conversation -- "I like this person! And hey, doesn't she do market research? And hey, Friend was looking for someone to do that!" 2. The person you were speaking to was reminded that you someone who cared about other people -- enough that you have some idea of what a former colleagues' daughter is doing quite specifically, when a lot of people might have no idea that a former colleague had
a daughter -- and thought, "This is the kind of person I want to recommend to my friend."

I think quid pro quo arrangements are common most places, but as much as anything it's about strengthening ties in a network and coming to see each other a little differently, rather than a this-for-that obligation.

Thanks for your observations, Mary. You're right--maybe I made too much of the cultural connection. I think the whole notion of reciprocity is interesting. How obligated do you feel as a recipient? How expectant are you as a giver that your kindness will be returned in some form?

ApatheticNoMore
5-21-16, 12:12pm
I don't know how having a drink every work night doesn't permanently ruin one's sleep (and thus make one a wreck the next day), alcohol puts me to sleep and then wakes me up in the middle of the night, that every work night - ah yea sounds lovely and likely to work really well. At least the Italians drinking in the afternoon and then taking a nap have a good idea. But with an American work schedule, nah drinking regularly there oh no. There's probably a reason people drink on Friday and Saturday nights. If you do the weeknight drinking enough do you get used to it, so it no longer does that? I also can't tolerate caffeine past 2pm or so.

Gardenarian
5-21-16, 3:09pm
tl;dr

I always like getting gifts, and accept them with pleasure! If it's something I can't use, I still get the fun of receiving - and then giving it to someone who will like it.

Mary B.
5-21-16, 4:36pm
Thanks for your observations, Mary. You're right--maybe I made too much of the cultural connection. I think the whole notion of reciprocity is interesting. How obligated do you feel as a recipient? How expectant are you as a giver that your kindness will be returned in some form?

For me it depends on the circumstances. The kind of example you gave -- passing along a name with an introduction -- seems courteous but relatively minor. Writing a letter of recommendation (for grad school, for instance) or making a call on someone's behalf is more major. I don't honestly think that any of these actions incur an obligation, though -- to me they seem like part of working as a professional in a field.

ToomuchStuff
5-21-16, 7:15pm
I don't drink, but some thrift stores are run by religious groups (so that is an issue). Then you have licensing requirements to either dispense or sell liquor, and these involve both state and federal agencies (BATF, states ATF). Local laws may also have an effect (local restaurants within so much distance of churches must get churches OK for liquor sales).

Ultralight
7-6-16, 8:39am
Dealing with an unwanted gift at the moment...

Tenngal
7-6-16, 12:29pm
I have become a regifter.......unclassy, I know. But the gifts I receive that are unwanted or simply not my style go into the gift pile. When I am invited to something that requires a gift, I look through these gifts and select something appropriate. I'd say at least 50% of the time there is something I can use for someone else.

sweetana3
7-6-16, 1:07pm
Let us be unclassy together.

Ultralight
7-6-16, 1:54pm
I can't regift anything, well I can and have, but clandestinely.

Every little thing my dad gives me he later asks about -- several times -- even years later.

freshstart
7-6-16, 4:51pm
I do the same thing as Tennegal

Teacher Terry
7-6-16, 5:04pm
UL: I can't believe your Dad asks you about stuff he gives you-too funny!

Ultralight
7-6-16, 5:19pm
UL: I can't believe your Dad asks you about stuff he gives you-too funny!

A few weeks ago he asked about the ten speed bike he gave me when I moved to Alabama -- ten years ago! Like: "Do you still have it...?"

Teacher Terry
7-6-16, 6:22pm
No worries-some day he won't be able to remember what he gave you:))

iris lilies
7-7-16, 4:14am
To those who re-gift: just stop the madness. Why foist off on someone something that you didnt want?

Think of all of the bath salts and little bars of artisan soaps that get passed around by women.

;)

Ultralight
7-7-16, 7:06am
To those who re-gift: just stop the madness. Why foist off on someone something that you didnt want?



LOL

Tenngal
7-13-16, 4:44pm
LOL I love bath salts and soaps..........my castoffs are nice things, just not my style.

ctg492
7-16-16, 5:51am
Gifts are gifts and my feeling is they are given to make the giver feel good. I say this because I had a mother who had to give, did not matter what the reason. I always had a hard time taking gifts from anyone. Mom's gifts always came with a price tag, How much excitement or happiness the person responded with. Next was the questions of how did you like it, did you hang it up or use it, where in the house is it?? After many years she stopped giving me gifts for the most part, for that reason my lack of response. She always said to never to return a plate empty, cookies came on it, cookies return on it. I feel maybe the person just wanted me to try their cookies that day.

I now have a neighbor who gives for the same reasons, the response. I am not ungrateful, but she buys costume jewelry sets and does not what the earrings, so she wraps them and gives them to me. Then comments on have you worn them? I don't ware these type jewelry. But yes I put a pair on sometimes to walk by her home with my dogs so she can see them and respond. Now there is a sight dog walking and dangling earrings!

SO i just take a gift and leave it at that, because I understand it means more to the person than it does to me.

freshstart
7-16-16, 10:38am
your last line sums it up well

pony mom
7-16-16, 9:33pm
I'll regift if the gift suits the receiver.

My friend knows I've been decluttering for quite some time, and has just given me a brass horse statue for my birthday. It's nice, but I don't want it. Her birthday is close to mine and she knows I haven't started my new job yet and don't have extra funds to buy a gift. I've mentioned that I'm not spending money on anything but necessities and now I feel bad that I can't get her anything. And I've got nothing suitable to regift to her.

freshstart
7-16-16, 9:46pm
maybe make a date to take a long walk together to catch up and stop for ice cream after, not all bday gifts have to be things

Tradd
7-17-16, 8:02pm
I agree with the "accept gift, say thank you, and put it aside to open later" thinking, unless you're in a one-on-one gathering and the person wants you to open it then. Still say thank you and deal with gift later. I'll donate it, or pass it along to someone (who doesn't know the gifted) who says they want said item when I mention it.

SteveinMN
7-18-16, 10:43am
We are great believers in "asynchronous gift-giving". I know my neighbor really likes my fermented pickles and I like the guy, so I make sure he gets a jar or two of pickles when I have cucumbers and the time to make pickles. That may or may not be the time he gives us tomatoes from his garden or some of his fishing catch. We'll watch his dog without expecting a thank-you -- we do it because we can and we like too, not out of obligation. People who know us know we just don't try to equalize the reciprocation. ("I gave them a grocery bag of tomatoes and they only gave me a gallon jar of pickles...")