Fentanyl: The new heroin, but deadlier

[Ultralight]

Well, this is scary.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/health/fentanyl-new-heroin-deadlier/

[freshstart]

we used this a lot in hospice in time released over 3 days patches. I had addicts in families steal them and lick them, I have no idea how they lived after ingesting 3 days worth of fentanyl in one go, but they did. We had several anesthesiologists get addicted to it at the hospital, one guy died. Very scary stuff because I didn't know that street level drug seekers can get homemade access, I thought it was a closely regulated drug that would have to be stolen or bought from someone with a script for it. Ugh.

[Williamsmith]

A familiar story with just a different lead actor. So let's see how this goes. Mexico and China are the sources. The drug cartels are the bad guys. DEA gets more funding. A contest to see who can seize the largest quantity begins. Everybody with pain meds is suspect. Law makers increase sentences for dealers and we build new jails to handle the overflow. This continues until we either run out of money or willpower. Change the name of the drug and sources. Repeat.

Right now an epidemic means only one thing. Many entrepreneurs are trying to figure out what piece of the public funding pie they can get their hands on and for how long. Solving the problem would be cutting off the growth potential of whole industries.

We are much too phobic about illicit drugs to ever allow everyone to have access to naloxone in order to save lives. And we have much more tolerance for our money to be poured into concrete and rebar for bigger jails than drug rehab facilities.

[Ultralight]

Did you see the dang space suit the cops have to wear because it can be absorbed through the eyes and skin?

Here is a frightening thought:

My mom takes Fenties. She has these patches she has to wear all the time. Very sad.

But she is also a hoarder with clutter all over. My concern is that she could leave a fent patch in a place sometime in the next few years and my sis's kid could find it...

Do you think this could happen? Is it something I should tell my sis about?

[JaneV2.0]

The Portland police are starting to carry Naloxone to administer to people who have overdosed--a step in the right direction.

What kind of idiots would distribute drugs in potencies guaranteed to kill a number of their customers. If anything, a smart cartel would cut the dose so people would need to buy more.

This country has a pill problem, at all levels and kinds of medications. I don't expect that to abate any time soon.

[Ultralight]

I often think the best that can happen -- which is not great -- is that the next generation sees what these types of drugs did to the previous generation or two and steer clear of them.

But this generation is lost.

[freshstart]

definitely tell your sis! it should be kept up high and away from where pets can get it. When my director was a nurse in the home in 80s, a young man on the patch died. She failed to pick up and discard the rest and his three year old brother got into it and died. We didn't have a hard and fast policy on getting drugs out of the home but it's what is generally done. I cannot imagine living with myself after that. Legally, the families can keep the narcs but I just present it as, "let's destroy these to be safe".

[Ultralight]

Oh jeeez... Fent works on pets too?

[Ultralight]

"The drug naloxone can reverse an opioid overdose. However, because fentanyl is so potent, it may require several doses of naloxone to bring someone out of a fentanyl overdose."

[sweetana3]

When my very elderly aunt died, Dad and his wife found a huge hoard of narcotics in her home. Everything from bottles of morphine to fentanyl patches. They brought them all to a local hospital for destruction. The funny thing was the hospital called the police. The police laughed at the hospital personnel when they heard the explanation.

Where else is there to take dangerous drugs to get rid of them? I thought the hospital was a good idea since they would have such things to destroy. It was amazing to me the number of people that said "they should have sold them". Like we would have even thought about doing anything like that. The world has changed. And I sure have a low opinion of those who said they should have sold them.

[JaneV2.0]

When my very elderly aunt died, Dad and his wife found a huge hoard of narcotics in her home. Everything from bottles of morphine to fentanyl patches. They brought them all to a local hospital for destruction. The funny thing was the hospital called the police. The police laughed at the hospital personnel when they heard the explanation.

Where else is there to take dangerous drugs to get rid of them? I thought the hospital was a good idea since they would have such things to destroy. It was amazing to me the number of people that said "they should have sold them". Like we would have even thought about doing anything like that. The world has changed. And I sure have a low opinion of those who said they should have sold them.

I believe you can take unwanted drugs to pharmacies for disposal; maybe that varies by jurisdiction.

[Ultralight]

The pharmacy at Krog's will take them and dispose of them.

[LDAHL]

The Portland police are starting to carry Naloxone to administer to people who have overdosed--a step in the right direction.

What kind of idiots would distribute drugs in potencies guaranteed to kill a number of their customers. If anything, a smart cartel would cut the dose so people would need to buy more.

This country has a pill problem, at all levels and kinds of medications. I don't expect that to abate any time soon.

Our County Sheriff's deputies are issued with naxalone kits, and a State law provides immunity from liability when it's administered by properly trained personnel. We are a generally affluent suburban county with a shockingly large narcotics problem.

I agree that we are an overmedicated society in general. I have no idea what can be done about it that hasn't already been tried. Maybe it's a cultural problem that defies policy fixes.

[Ultralight]

...it's a cultural problem that defies policy fixes.

Bingo.

[catherine]

There are tamper-resistant/abuse-deterrent formulations, and more in the works--ways to prevent getting high off these drugs to reduce the appeal and the street value. But doctors are skeptical, because there are some pretty sophisticated underground chemistry labs that can figure out ways to get to the good stuff. And insurance companies aren't covering them because they're branded and generic opioids are dirt cheap.

I am appalled and sad over the number of deaths there are due to opioids. I am all for giving the police all the tools they need to prevent fatal accidental overdoses.

[JaneV2.0]

Then there are the pill mills that hand them out like Halloween candy in places like Florida. Maybe a few wrongful death lawsuits are in order.

[Ultralight]

Some might say this is Darwinism in action.

[freshstart]

fentanyl patches come generic. some have a liquid gel that addicts lick, others spread the med out in a safer matrix form but either way, you can get the whole dose at once. I can't tell you how many very sick cats I ran into because patients did not listen to the proper way to dispose of their used patch. There was enough active ingredient leftover to harm the pet, 2 died. Patients didn't understand that some drug remained active even though 72 hrs were up.

we may be an overmedicated society in some ways, but I saw a ton of patients with bony mets on freaking lortab until their oncologist suggested hospice. Only then would they agree to prescribe the truly needed and proper doses of opioids. And I don't think we manage chronic pain very well at all here.

[Ultralight]

The fact that this crazy drug can be absorbed through the skin and eyes makes me never want to touch anything at my parents' house.

[freshstart]

is she responsible with it, putting one on every 72 hrs and disposing safely of the old one? I don't think touching surfaces would be a problem unless you see a patch sitting somewhere and pick it up. It's probably worth having a convo with your mom about her safety. Like you don't have enough going on over there.

[Ultralight]

Is she responsible with it? My guess would be... not exactly.

My dad is a retired Nurse Practitioner. So I am sure he is reasonably careful. But they are both pushing 70 years. They are living in a disgusting hoard.

My mom is very absent minded and is generally irresponsible. She left the stove on when I was a kid and burned up much of the kitchen. Countless times she'd let something scorch on the stove -- almost daily. Dishes would pile up to epic sized mountains.

She also has a tendency to half-*ss things. Like when she would do the dishes she would not dry them off. She'd just put them in the cupboard wet. This, of course, rotted the wood. And back when my dad still had a little bit of fight left in him he'd get really upset when he'd reach up to grab a glass and then get splashed in the face. lol

But I am digressing here.

Suffice to say, I don't trust my mom with anything. The worst (for me) was a couple summers ago I went home to visit them. My mom promised to watch Harlan for about 5 minutes while I helped my dad move a picnic table in the yard.

After we moved the table I came back in to fetch Harlan.

He was nowhere to be found. I freaked out because not only is he a runner, but he was totally unfamiliar with the area and could not find his way back to me. And much worse than that, people in that little pillbilly town "own" pit bulls. And these pit bulls are vicious and have killed many other dogs -- a neighbor's bassett hound, another neighbor's husky mix, I could go on.

So all I could think about was that my Harlan was getting literally ripped apart by a pack of 3 or 4 pit bulls. No exaggerating. This is normal in my hometown.

I started calling for Harlan frantically! I shouted: "Where is my dog?!" over and over.

She said: "Oh, I thought he was with you."

Just five minutes before she was volunteering to watch Harlan while I helped move the picnic table.

I about lost it... then Harlan came darting out of the basement.

Man, I grabbed that dog and hugged him.

I said: "Mom, I ain't got nothing in life but this dog. He is all I really got. I will never trust you even for a minute with him every again."

So yeah, no trust for her. I will definitely talk to my sis about the fenties.

[bae]

The fact that this crazy drug can be absorbed through the skin and eyes makes me never want to touch anything at my parents' house.

Your parents' legal Fentanyl patches aren't going to kill you if you touch one. If you take their whole stash and convert them to another form and then consume it, you'd have to be a whole special sort of stupid, and it would still be easier to kill yourself with chemicals likely sitting under their sink.

As someone who receives many hours of substance-abuse training every year, who responds to these sorts of medical calls every week, who has an Ebola suit with my name on it sitting in our hazmat response rig, and who carries a naxalone kit, I'm going to have to weigh in with Williamsmith on this one. The original article is sensationalist pap and designed to hit all of the hot buttons to rile up folks and get funding.

[RoseQuartz]

I just read an article on "shoot up rooms" last night, and it seems like opiate addiction is everywhere now. Was this epidemic really caused by doctors overprescribing? It just boggles my mind. All of my doctors have been very slow to prescribe anything including antibiotics which I think is good. I guess that's not the norm.

[freshstart]

UA, that is heartbreaking about Harlan and thank God he was ok. I wouldn't trust her with anything either, OMG

[iris lilies]

The fact that this crazy drug can be absorbed through the skin and eyes makes me never want to touch anything at my parents' house.
Once my dog was on some kind of antibiotic that could be absorbed thru my handling of it, so I used plastic gloves.

And I had to,i struct the dog sitter to do the same.

First time for that, and not since then.

[freshstart]

I have a weird fentanyl story. Years ago I was doing Match, this much older man really pursued me so I finally met him. We had a few dates, but he was an old, controlling rich guy, not up my alley. He started out as a chemist and claimed he and his company co-founder made the first fentanyl patch and "you probably heard, we sold the company for 200 million", no, I had never heard that nor found proof of it. I was supposed to be his Eliza Dolittle hospice nurse, no thanks, pal. I forget his name but know I would recognize it on the wikipedia page and it ain't there.

[Ultralight]

I have a weird fentanyl story. Years ago I was doing Match, this much older man really pursued me so I finally met him. We had a few dates, but he was an old, controlling rich guy, not up my alley. He started out as a chemist and claimed he and his company co-founder made the first fentanyl patch and "you probably heard, we sold the company for 200 million", no, I had never heard that nor found proof of it. I was supposed to be his Eliza Dolittle hospice nurse, no thanks, pal. I forget his name but know I would recognize it on the wikipedia page and it ain't there.


Wacky!

[Williamsmith]

There has been a viable solution available for a long time. We are beginning to see progress made state by state but the Federal Government is to blame for the draconian laws against this beneficial substance.

Cannabis holds great promise for the treatment of neuropathy without the addictive and deadly side effects. But how does a country that has arrested 8.2 million of its citizens for simple possession between 2001-2010 admit that all the money spent on enforcement and incarceration could have prevented such a widespread catastrophe? Not easy, especially when African Americans are four times as likely to be arrested as whites.

I don't want to peel off into a discussion on police profiling. Suffice it to say that issues that involve African Americans don't get much political action. They get plenty of attention. But now that the heroine and opiod epidemic is hitting all races and economic classes equal, we have a chance that some influential business people or politicians family have been affected. Clinton said as much just recently.

Nabiximols , is a promising cannabis extract. It is being used in Canada and other countries to treat MS and is being looked at to treat cancer pain. Cannabis does not have to be smoked. It can be vaporized and at levels necessary for pain relief without causing people to "get high".

And interestingly if you combine cannabis with lower dosages of opiods....you get much better pain relief.

I am thankful that opiods were available when I was suffering in agony from neuropathic pain. But more thankful for a caring physician who was professional enough to monitor my usage and my pain levels. I do not need any medication at this point but if none had been available to relieve my pain I would have been suicidal with pain.

I hope we can decriminalize cannabis and start using it to save lives. Just in PA last year from heroine and opiods......@ 2500.

[freshstart]

I agree with the legalization of medical marijuana. Many types of pain meds used as adjuvants make pain less, often 2 or more different drugs are necessary.

[Williamsmith]

Thanks freshstart....and btw if I offended you in that other thread....my sincere apologies. I have a deep respect for you. Sometimes my dark humor is a little too dark.

[bae]

Sometimes my dark humor is a little too dark.

I sometimes find your humor to be depressingly similar to reality, which I suppose makes it all the more effective.

[freshstart]

I sometimes find your humor to be depressingly similar to reality, which I suppose makes it all the more effective.

this^^^, except upsetting instead of effective, lol

you could never really offend me I don't think anymore. Surprise me yes, but not offend me

[Williamsmith]

I sometimes find your humor to be depressingly similar to reality, which I suppose makes it all the more effective.

I would respond with one of my favorite dark humor jokes.....but I most certainly would be banned from this forum. The only way I could deal with the tragedy of my job.....was by laughing at the unlaughable. Is that a word? A plateful of spaghetti just minutes after leaving the scene of a 30.06 suicide. No problem.

[Williamsmith]

this^^^, except upsetting instead of effective, lol

you could never really offend me I don't think anymore. Surprise me yes, but not offend me

I wondered.....because the nurses I ran around with all had some really dark humor. So dark it sometimes worried me I might be arriving in the ER some night unable to defend myself. rrrrr

[bae]

"No problem" - alas, I understand :-( :-)

[freshstart]

dark humor was the only way to get through hospice. "You want me to put your (dead) dad in skinny jeans and spray cologne on his manly bits AND cowboy boots? Am I on camera? Where's the camera?" Except you were never on camera, lol

or the time an old timer funeral director insisted I put a diaper over the face of a woman going out from her BR through the LR past all her family "just in case of secretions" and tried to have me fired when I refused to cover her face with the diaper

[Williamsmith]

dark humor was the only way to get through hospice. "You want me to put your (dead) dad in skinny jeans and spray cologne on his manly bits AND cowboy boots? Am I on camera? Where's the camera?" Except you were never on camera, lol

or the time an old timer funeral director insisted I put a diaper over the face of a woman going out from her BR through the LR past all her family "just in case of secretions" and tried to have me fired when I refused to cover her face with the diaper

You deserve every penny of compensation available to you. You earned it kid.

[freshstart]

You deserve every penny of compensation available to you. You earned it kid.

so did you!