View Full Version : advice, please- wedding drama
freshstart
5-22-16, 7:33am
I think you all know my brother is getting married in 2 weeks in his fiancee's parents B&B. It is small so the wedding guest list was only 25 people per side. Unless you were married, there were no plus ones. It is 3 hrs away. Ex did not feel comfortable with Adam driving up Sat, staying over and driving home Sunday. So he is driving them home that same night, I have no clue what he will do while the wedding is going but this was his choice.
Adam has asked me to bring his "GF", a girl he pursued heavily. Turns out she is a lesbian and they are best friends. Has known her 6 mos maybe. I asked my brother 3 times, and he ignored the question. Fine, GF not going, both kids are. Let me preface this by saying, neither child is super-excited to go to begin with. But I have explained this is the last big family gathering before their grandmother likely dies. We all want pictures of the family together one last time. I ask them to give up one night of their lives for their grandmother, she would be very upset if one of her two only grandchildren weren't there. So it seemed settled.
DD is at an overnight after prom and texts me at 5am that she is not going, the lesbian GF is instead. I am so disappointed in how my kids behave with family, they were not raised this way. I plan to ask my brother to squeeze the GF in and I will pay for her and hopefully he will do that. If not how do I get my kids to go without her and just do it out of the goodness of their hearts? You all have such different perspectives, I would appreciate any input.
Is it possible your daughter actually thinks she is doing the "right" thing by giving up her space for your son's GF so they can be together?
Chicken lady
5-22-16, 8:42am
I would simply say "no. The gf was not invited and you do not take people to a wedding who are not invited. It is rude and inconsiderate." The girlfriend isn't coming. Period. We are dealing with this with my Dd's wedding. I don't understand why people think they can bring uninvited guests to someone else's event.
wether or not your dd goes is a seperate issue. You can't force her to care about her grandmother's feelings or yours. You can only express yours.
her not going doesn't mean the gf gets to come. People are not interchangeable.
A person who is not invited should not attend. Sorry-this is the wedding of the bride/groom, and not a social event for your kid to bring a friend to hang out with. I would NOT allow/condone this behavior.
I agree your daughter should attend. I don't know her age. My response would be "there are no do-overs in this life. This is your Uncle's wedding. He wants you to attend. You are 1 of 25 people invited to attend this joyous occasion with him. AND this is likely your Grandmas' final social family event and this is very important to her as well. If you can't do this for yourself, please open your heart and attend for them."
After that, you've got to let it go.
freshstart
5-22-16, 8:47am
the plot thickens, it was DD who announced she was not going so DS invited the friend and got a hotel room. He said he is ok with DD going and not the GF. Now I have to get DD to go. WTH is wrong with her that she cannot give up one night for her only uncle's wedding?
freshstart
5-22-16, 8:51am
I'm going to say what Gardner said, that's perfect. And if she chooses to be a jerk, than that is that. She'll have regrets when she is gone.
You have received some really good advice.
I would only reinforce that it is the bride and groom's day, not your mother's. That may be the way that DD sees it as well.
Secondly, while weddings are important for so many good reasons, it still is just one day out of a lifetime of contacts that DD has had with her grandmother and the extended family. She will remember all of them far more than she will this one wedding as will you and your mother. Look at the family photos to remind her as some point when it seems appropriate.
Your motives are wonderful and credible based on your life experience but DD has not bought into them probably due to lack of exposure to life's fragility and the means of working through it by grabbing each moment at it comes along.
Hugs to you!
As far as the "last family portrait," if your daughter doesn't show up, fire up the Photoshop and patch her into it. A hundred years from now, your descendants won't know the difference.
rosarugosa
5-22-16, 9:40am
I think your DD is a teenager, right? That explains everything as far as I'm concerned. I pretty much sucked when I was a teenager too. If she chooses not to go, make the best of it and while it will be unfortunate not to have her in the photos, it won't be the end of the world. I hope you all can have a good time anyway!
freshstart
5-22-16, 10:46am
I'm starting to feel like I'm going to have to settle for she's not going. I am disappointed in both of their behaviors, none of this would be happening if DS hadn't insisted on a plus one when there's no room. They would've gone together and that would be that. I want to fast forward to 22 when they will be reasonable (hopefully) adults
If your daughter is a minor, MAKE her go. I did what my parents told me to do till I left home. At 55, I'm glad they did. YOU need to have NO regrets yourself!
What Chicken Lady said.
You might have inadvertently played into the drama by asking your brother 3 times if the GF could come, since you already knew the guest list limitations. It probably gave them hope and they took it as a done deal. Now it's hard for them to back off. Youth :)
I also agree with those who said that one event in a lifetime is not that big of a deal. The day is important for the bride and groom and hopefully they will have a wonderful wedding, regardless of who shows up. If your dd chooses to not attend, that's her loss not theirs.
Teacher Terry
5-22-16, 12:53pm
I would not let the GF go no matter what your daughter does. Make this clear to all 3 of them that she was not invited and then maybe your daughter will change her mind. I really feel for you having to go through all this drama.
It sounds like your son's friend is not particularly interested in attending the wedding, just in having a pleasant weekend away, so I wouldn't hang this on her. Your son can briefly attend the wedding, then bug out to spend the rest of his time as he pleases.
freshstart
5-22-16, 3:30pm
I'll present that to Adam, you come to the wedding for a decent amt of time while she waits at the hotel, then do whatever they want. DD is a minor but I've lost all authority since after I got sick, she moved in with her dad who will not back me on ANYTHING. He has no rules and consequences and we, despite over a decade of me trying, don't co-parent. I can't ground her because she doesn't live with me and he won't back it up anyways, same with taking away her phone, etc. He enforces nothing. So the only way she's going is if she agrees to it or I physically force her, which I won't. I hate this crap, all of my family is dysfunctional.
iris lilies
5-22-16, 3:32pm
If your daughter is a minor, MAKE her go. I did what my parents told me to do till I left home. At 55, I'm glad they did. YOU need to have NO regrets yourself!
No.
Believe it or not, I think that the daughter's point of view is reasonable. So is the point of view of OP. They are just different, and in conflict.
The daughter is old enough to decide how she will spend her time and despite an attempt to minimize it, a six hour drive and a lng event out of town is a big investment of time. She already lives in the same town as her grandmother so its not as if this wedding provides an important occasion to see her dying grandmother.
Its just one day, and the focus on a family portrait seems a bit skeevy to me as the OP, her brother, her daughter, her son, and sometimes her mother all are out of sorts with one another. While granny might want to pretend in a Happy Happy Family photo portrait, teens are very sensitive to this kind of hypocrisy.
If the OP expects her daughter and son son to come around in a few years, comng back into the family fold, she cant be doing things like "MAKiNG" the daughter go out of town. But she knows that.:)
one of the biggest WTF moments of recent years was when we attended our niece's wedding. Niece was not speaking to either of her parents. Why have a big to-do I thought, but whatever. Her parents attended, they did not speak to their daughter and vice verse, there were Happy happy Family photos and it was weird as hell. But the show must go on.
freshstart
5-22-16, 3:40pm
I just wanted one peaceful day where everyone acted like a normal, well-mannered guest and we got one freaking picture. It was too much to ask and I should have known better. Unless my brother oks it, that GF or whatever the heck she is, is not stepping foot into the wedding. DDs seat can remain empty or my brother can ask one of his many friends he could not ask because he only had 25 invites. This is not a social outing for Adam and this girl, no plus one, means no plus one. So once DD decides, I am done. If she goes great, I already RSVP'd for that because she originally agreed to go. If she stays home, I am telling Adam he has to get permission from my brother to bring the girl, I'm not involved in that hot mess.
In DD's defense, she is studying for finals and she is hyper focused on school right now.
mschrisgo2
5-22-16, 3:41pm
You've gotten some excellent advice here.
The only thing I can add is that my very-respectful-of-family-and-mom's-wishes daughter told me well ahead of time that IF my brother had a big (fourth) wedding, she hoped I would understand that she would not go because of the exceedingly disrespectful way he had spoken to her at several family events. She was 30 at the time. Point is, our kids have their own relationships with family members.
freshstart
5-22-16, 3:48pm
this is true and my brother has a strained relationship with the kids, he would promise to be home for a bday and totally not come or give a gift, he would say he would take them on an outing and then not do it, but then for Christmas give an xbox and a pile of games. When he did that, Adam said, "you don't have to buy our love, we just want to do stuff with you." He was always really really great or really crappy. And it's been mostly crappy the last few years. So he shouldn't expect his teenage niece and nephew to have an interest in his wedding when he has forgotten umpteen birthdays and never does fun stuff with them at all. Never calls them or anything. So DD is justified in not wanting to give up her time for this.
DD is probably the most functional one at this point, as I want unrealistic happy family crap that is not going to happen regardless of DD being there or not. My thoughts about it are clouded by it being the "last big family event", that was the main reason I wanted everyone together. But as someone said all the small times matter, too and hopefully there are many more of those to come.
you guys give good therapy, lol
freshstart
5-22-16, 9:20pm
I decided one more move and then I am out of this wedding game. I texted DD she has to Weds to tell me if she is going. If she is or isn't I will tell my brother. I then texted Adam and said Uncle Matt will decide what happens to the extra seat and since the wedding is so small, he couldn't invite many friends, he may very well choose not to give the seat to Adam's GF. But once I give Claire's answer, I am totally out. They can hash it out without me. DD has been so obnoxious lately. neither of my parents care if she goes. That's saying something, even the dying person has been pushed to her limits and no longer cares. So why should I? I will be sad but I am stronger than my children think. Ahh, one more text about the wedding and then I am OUT, can't wait.
this is true and my brother has a strained relationship with the kids, he would promise to be home for a bday and totally not come or give a gift, he would say he would take them on an outing and then not do it, but then for Christmas give an xbox and a pile of games. When he did that, Adam said, "you don't have to buy our love, we just want to do stuff with you." He was always really really great or really crappy. And it's been mostly crappy the last few years. So he shouldn't expect his teenage niece and nephew to have an interest in his wedding when he has forgotten umpteen birthdays and never does fun stuff with them at all. Never calls them or anything. So DD is justified in not wanting to give up her time for this.
Well that certainly changes perspective a great deal and it most certainly changes my thoughts on MAKING her go. It makes a difference having a full story/background. I'm not irrational.
Ultralight
5-23-16, 7:26am
I think you all know my brother is getting married in 2 weeks in his fiancee's parents B&B. It is small so the wedding guest list was only 25 people per side. Unless you were married, there were no plus ones. It is 3 hrs away. Ex did not feel comfortable with Adam driving up Sat, staying over and driving home Sunday. So he is driving them home that same night, I have no clue what he will do while the wedding is going but this was his choice.
Adam has asked me to bring his "GF", a girl he pursued heavily. Turns out she is a lesbian and they are best friends. Has known her 6 mos maybe. I asked my brother 3 times, and he ignored the question. Fine, GF not going, both kids are. Let me preface this by saying, neither child is super-excited to go to begin with. But I have explained this is the last big family gathering before their grandmother likely dies. We all want pictures of the family together one last time. I ask them to give up one night of their lives for their grandmother, she would be very upset if one of her two only grandchildren weren't there. So it seemed settled.
DD is at an overnight after prom and texts me at 5am that she is not going, the lesbian GF is instead. I am so disappointed in how my kids behave with family, they were not raised this way. I plan to ask my brother to squeeze the GF in and I will pay for her and hopefully he will do that. If not how do I get my kids to go without her and just do it out of the goodness of their hearts? You all have such different perspectives, I would appreciate any input.
I suggest disengaging from your kids for a while. You seem tangled up in them in ways that trouble you deeply.
Something else to consider is this, let me paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld.
You don't do to a family event with the family you want, you go to a family event with the family you have.
Could you perhaps be trying to push your square peg family into a round hole?
Maybe something worthwhile is spending some introspective time and emotion on accepting your kids for how they truly are. Assess them on their behavior. Assess them on their actions. Then you can "do you" in a way that perhaps keeps you some sanity and tranquility.
I know this is hard. I have done similar things with family, friends, my own life as an individual, and so on. But it can help.
freshstart
5-23-16, 8:09am
Well that certainly changes perspective a great deal and it most certainly changes my thoughts on MAKING her go. It makes a difference having a full story/background. I'm not irrational.
I never thought you were irrational and I thought "if only I could MAKE her go", it's just futile
freshstart
5-23-16, 8:19am
Could you perhaps be trying to push your square peg family into a round hole?
Maybe something worthwhile is spending some introspective time and emotion on accepting your kids for how they truly are. Assess them on their behavior. Assess them on their actions. Then you can "do you" in a way that perhaps keeps you some sanity and tranquility. .
I am definitely trying to fit the square peg into the round hole because I always have a fantasy that "this time it will all be different" and I'm always disappointed when everything goes crappy.
I'm scared to accept my kids as they are as units in the family because if I assess them on their behavior and actions, well, those are pretty darn bad. Maybe disengaging from their actions and behaviors is what I need right now in order to "do me". I don't want to live my life as everyone's punching bag and I am not going to. After I hear from DD Weds on whether she is going, then I am done and disengaging. They know where to find me and they are good kids everywhere else, they know they treat me poorly. I'm done being kicked in the teeth and putting myself out there time and time again so they can keep doing it.
freshstart
5-23-16, 7:36pm
Claire decided she is not going. Well, her choice. I am deeply disappointed and disappointed at her selfishness but I am done. DS thinks GF will automatically get DD's seat. I am staying totally out of that. I am going back to keeping them at arm's distance, wall going up so they can't hurt me anymore. They know where I am if they need me.
Stay strong fresh start, change is hard and you are under stress right now so it is doubly difficult. They are old enough that their behavior reflects on them, not you! You're getting your mom and dad there and yourself. That's PLENTY in my opinion.
I just want to add that if the kids are "teenagers" they are usually totally self involved. I just hear too many tales of woe from parents of kids at these ages. It should be surprising when they hit 25-30 just how much nicer they become.
Maybe it's my particular bias, but I'm of the opinion that one is never obligated to go to any wedding but their own, regardless of pressure applied.
ApatheticNoMore
5-23-16, 9:50pm
It should be surprising when they hit 25-30 just how much nicer they become.
maybe it's just because they no longer have to live with their parents (by that age ...). Niceness comes easier when you don't share a roof.
iris lilies
5-23-16, 9:51pm
maybe it's just because they no longer have to live with their parents (by that age ...). Niceness comes easier when you don't share a roof.haha, that is true.
freshstart
5-29-16, 12:44pm
well, today is the first day I see her since she said "no". I asked her to take me to pick up my car at the auto place maybe 3 miles from the house and she refused since she'd have to use her gas. With that tone already set I didn't even bother to say I'd reimburse her the 58c in gas it would cost. So waiting for her to get here, knowing she is already in bitch mode. I will take none of that and she will be on her way back home soon after she gets here. My dad is going to try sitting down with her alone and talking about the wedding and how this is her grandmother's last big family celebration and everyone wants her there. Good for him but I'm going to be listening because if she is disrespectful to his respectful request, she is outta here. My parents, esp my mom, have done so much for her it's incredible. the one time she is asked to put herself out for others it all goes to shit. the word wedding is not crossing my lips. pray for us, this could get ugly
Teacher Terry
5-29-16, 1:07pm
So very sorry! I hope she is nice to your dad.
iris lilies
5-29-16, 1:38pm
well, today is the first day I see her since she said "no". I asked her to take me to pick up my car at the auto place maybe 3 miles from the house and she refused since she'd have to use her gas. With that tone already set I didn't even bother to say I'd reimburse her the 58c in gas it would cost. So waiting for her to get here, knowing she is already in bitch mode. I will take none of that and she will be on her way back home soon after she gets here. My dad is going to try sitting down with her alone and talking about the wedding and how this is her grandmother's last big family celebration and everyone wants her there. Good for him but I'm going to be listening because if she is disrespectful to his respectful request, she is outta here. My parents, esp my mom, have done so much for her it's incredible. the one time she is asked to put herself out for others it all goes to shit. the word wedding is not crossing my lips. pray for us, this could get ugly
I think you should stay out of it including stay out of any interaction your daughter has with her grandfather.
If he chooses to beat this wedding dead horse he may incur her rath. Thats on him and its on him what to do next. How many times does this girl have to say "no, I'm not going to my uncle's wedding?"
I remember a very wise piece of advice from an SLF poster which I thought was brilliant in this kind of situation. She suggested to a parent that this kind of pressure exerted on a kid teaches them that boundaries arent something to be respected. When they set a boundary and a parent badgers them to change it, that teaches an unhealthy way of interacting.
Of course, I realize that this is a teen who does not have all of the agency of a grown adult, and perhaps her grandfather's request isnt "badgering," exactly.
There are lots of nuances here.
Im curious--why is she coming to you house today?
I agree with the boundary thing. Also that she and grandpa should handle their own conversation and just let it happen.
freshstart
5-29-16, 2:38pm
they had their own conversation, she said she has 3 Regents exams on that Monday and despite having a tutor is doing poorly in physics so she is not going because she needs to study. Had this been explained to anyone before today she would've had a sympathetic ear. She said I sent her harassing texts (I sent one saying I was deeply disappointed in her decision), my dad asked to read them, read that one and said that is not harassment that is the truth. She said goodbye and left. They were both very calm. I looked on the school calendar, she does not have 3 Regents on Mon but she has 3 that week. As focused as she is on grades, I'll give her this one. I'd argue she could just come to the wedding, leave early, study in the car but she clearly does not want to be there. It's done.
looking back, had she mentioned the tests, I would not have pressured her, IDK why she was not upfront with that. Probably because she said she was going and then gave crappy reasons when she changed her mind. I'm left with disappointment that she won't be in the last set of family pictures. That's the main feeling I take away. Maybe in the fall, I could arrange for a photographer to do family pictures.
next time I am not going to tolerate the disrespect, give me the reason upfront, be honest and act with integrity, if you can't do that, do what you want since you clearly don't care.
freshstart
5-29-16, 2:44pm
I just hugged Bernice hard and thanked her deeply for not being my 17 or 19 yr old spawn. My best relationship is with this dog. And I am 100% ok with that!
freshstart
5-29-16, 3:19pm
Im curious--why is she coming to you house today?
she moved in with her dad when I was really sick, it was supposed to be temporary but she likes living with no rules or repercussions at Dad's so I see her on Sundays. She is a very dedicated student, does tons of clubs and volunteer work, she is a junior so this year is important. All I could get that would satisfy her was Sundays. The judge wanted to give me much more but Claire was really upset, she hates moving back and forth so I caved with the agreement it was temporary while I was so sick. When I got better, welp, she chose and I am not going to fight this hormonal, angry teen for any more time. She knows she is free to come here whenever she wants.
Teacher Terry
5-29-16, 3:25pm
By the teen years you have to let kids choose otherwise if forced you could ruin the chance of having a relationship later. When I was a SW they would force small kids to visit their parents if the parents wanted it but not the teens. It was supervised visitation because the parents could not be trusted. So what I am saying is that not even the county was stupid to try to force teens to do something so I think you are also smart FS.
iris lilies
5-29-16, 3:28pm
Ah Bernice! She appreciates you!
I didnt know if this was a regular visit by your daughter that was kinda/sorta mandated, or if ahe was there for another reason.
Your solution of a professional photograph of the family is an excellent one, freshstart! :idea:
Teacher Terry
5-29-16, 4:32pm
Or photoshop her in later. My friend's ex refused to be in a wedding pic with his ex and kids on their big day so the kid photoshopped him in later. You could not tell and was he mad when he came to their house and saw it. Serves him right for being a jerk.
freshstart
5-29-16, 4:33pm
thanks, Jane. It turns out my cousin is having a professional photog at her son's summer party for leaving for bootcamp so we have a second chance. But Claire will probably bail on that, too, lol.
Bernice is truly the best dog ever
Or photoshop her in later. My friend's ex refused to be in a wedding pic with his ex and kids on their big day so the kid photoshopped him in later. You could not tell and was he mad when he came to their house and saw it. Serves him right for being a jerk.
I thought of that; you can do wonders with Photo apps these days.
iris lilies
5-29-16, 5:33pm
An expressive photograph of your daughter and her grandmother in a setting where they are relaxed and happy would be a great thing for your daughter and you to have down the road.
I realize that for some people the formal photographic portrait is the thing. And it serves a purpose. But those become outdated so quickly due to hair and clothing. We had very few of those in my family, actually only one I can think of. I have no special feelings toward it. Perhaps there were familynphotos at my brothers wedding but I dont have any of them.
But a photo showing genuine emotion lasts longer. Those are hard to get, though.
iris lilies
5-29-16, 5:34pm
Or photoshop her in later. My friend's ex refused to be in a wedding pic with his ex and kids on their big day so the kid photoshopped him in later. You could not tell and was he mad when he came to their house and saw it. Serves him right for being a jerk.
That is hilarious!
freshstart
5-29-16, 6:19pm
An expressive photograph of your daughter and her grandmother in a setting where they are relaxed and happy would be a great thing for your daughter and you to have down the road.
But a photo showing genuine emotion lasts longer. Those are hard to get, though.
I would actually value this more, thanks for the suggestion
Professional photographers can be very creative these days. A friend of mine had a series of shots taken all over town, in their house, with their pets, in color and black and white. They turned out well--none of those American Gothic poses (unless you want them, of course).
freshstart
5-30-16, 8:47am
I'm gonna have to do that because she will be in NYC the weekend of the family party. I'm starting to not care and that's not good
I'm starting to not care and that's not good
Do you really not care, or have you started to accept what you cannot change? Detachment or nonattachment can be quite healthy, actually.
freshstart
5-30-16, 5:43pm
I care, I'm de-attaching. The two of them have been awful about so many things, I'm detaching from them both for a while. so maybe it is good
wedding chaos is in full swing here. Before she was sick, my mother was a notorious person for freaking out about getting ready for a trip, drives me bananas and takes the fun out of the trip listening to her shrieking. Well, add in illness and pain and whoa, I did it all day but since around 7, I've been DONE. She even hired the cleaning lady (who is coming to the wedding to be her assistant) to help pack and I don't know how she can stand it. My father is finally acknowledging the nigh before that gee, most of his clothes are 2 sizes too small! thank God I made him buy two sweet suits. Packing for a trip does not have to be like this, IDK why she has always done this.
I went to my room where sweet Bernice was already hiding out, laid down beside her and put my arm around her and my head on her chest and just listened to her breathe and softly snore for 20 mins. I think that counts as meditating because every time my mind wandered to the chaos, I went back to Bernice's breathing. Maybe I will be better at meditating than I thought. I feel a million times better and am so happy that trips don't freak me out like my parents, life is too short.
iris lilies
6-2-16, 9:23pm
Well, Im glad you were able to step back, out of the chaos.
I have to say, your mother seems to be a locus of swirling dark dysfunction that colors your entire household.
I went to my room where sweet Bernice was already hiding out, laid down beside her and put my arm around her and my head on her chest and just listened to her breathe and softly snore for 20 mins. I think that counts as meditating because every time my mind wandered to the chaos, I went back to Bernice's breathing. Maybe I will be better at meditating than I thought. I feel a million times better and am so happy that trips don't freak me out like my parents, life is too short.
So sorry you have such negative stuff swirling, but glad you have Bernice. Bernice will be a GREAT meditation coach if you decide to really give it a try. Dogs just have the "be here now" stuff down. They get it. My dog has taught me a LOT about living in the present and enjoying the moment.
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