This dark side of the Internet is costing young people their jobs and social lives

[Ultralight]

You all are going to looooooove this one!

"A recent study by Common Sense Media, a parent advocacy group, found that 59 percent of parents think their teens are addicted to mobile devices. Meanwhile, 50 percent of teenagers feel the same way (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2016/05/03/teens-say-theyre-addicted-to-technology-heres-how-parents-can-help/). The study surveyed nearly 1,300 parents and children this year."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/for-many-young-americans-compulsive-internet-use-is-a-very-very-real-struggle/2016/05/20/be637a24-130d-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/for-many-young-americans-compulsive-internet-use-is-a-very-very-real-struggle/2016/05/20/be637a24-130d-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html)

I feel like Simple Living is the antidote.

[LDAHL]

Why syndromize a lack of personal discipline?

[Ultralight]

I think we are more animal-like in our impulsiveness than we like to admit. This varies person by person too.

And I think our impulses can be provoked and stimulated (think advertising).

Here is an example. I was out fishing yesterday evening for crappie (you might call them speckled bass). The sun was shining and the water was clear.

I'd quietly slide my canoe over a fallen tree, look into the water, and see crappies holding close to the submerged tree trunk and branches (this is disciplined behavior for a fish). Then I reach my pole out and drop the jig with a fakin' bait minnow on it about a foot from the crappie's nose. Sometimes this would stimulate the crappie's impulse to strike and gobble up the minnow.

But sometimes it would not be quite enough.

So I'd have to put that jig right in front of the crappie's nose and jiggle it around.

This is like putting a slice of pepperoni pizza right in front of a college kid's nose. He'll just not be able to control himself and start chomping.

The crappies strikes, gulps down the jig and minnow, I set the hook, and then I reel it in.


People, with their smart phones and laptops and other devices everywhere they look, are just like that crappie with me wiggling that jig in front of their face.

And like animals we yield to our impulses.

[LDAHL]

I think we are more animal-like in our impulsiveness than we like to admit. This varies person by person too.

And I think our impulses can be provoked and stimulated (think advertising).

Here is an example. I was out fishing yesterday evening for crappie (you might call them speckled bass). The sun was shining and the water was clear.

I'd quietly slide my canoe over a fallen tree, look into the water, and see crappies holding close to the submerged tree trunk and branches (this is disciplined behavior for a fish). Then I reach my pole out and drop the jig with a fakin' bait minnow on it about a foot from the crappie's nose. Sometimes this would stimulate the crappie's impulse to strike and gobble up the minnow.

But sometimes it would not be quite enough.

So I'd have to put that jig right in front of the crappie's nose and jiggle it around.

This is like putting a slice of pepperoni pizza right in front of a college kid's nose. He'll just not be able to control himself and start chomping.

The crappies strikes, gulps down the jig and minnow, I set the hook, and then I reel it in.


People, with their smart phones and laptops and other devices everywhere they look, are just like that crappie with me wiggling that jig in front of their face.

And like animals we yield to our impulses.

Yes. People have impulses. Growing up is in large measure a process of learning to control our impulses. People who fail to do so will probably be less successful in their careers and relationships.

That doesn't mean we are suffering an epidemic of some sort. It just means that there are a lot of undisciplined people who don't want to put down their toys. There is a limit to what you can do for someone (or at least there should be) who refuses to grow up.

[catherine]

Yes. People have impulses. Growing up is in large measure a process of learning to control our impulses. People who fail to do so will probably be less successful in their careers and relationships.

That doesn't mean we are suffering an epidemic of some sort. It just means that there are a lot of undisciplined people who don't want to put down their toys. There is a limit to what you can do for someone (or at least there should be) who refuses to grow up.

Don't worry. A pharmaceutical company will come up with a pill for it which should legitimize it. It's probably already in clinical trials. (Can you tell I'm still agitated by my post in the Trump thread?)

[Ultralight]

Yes. People have impulses. Growing up is in large measure a process of learning to control our impulses. People who fail to do so will probably be less successful in their careers and relationships.

That doesn't mean we are suffering an epidemic of some sort. It just means that there are a lot of undisciplined people who don't want to put down their toys. There is a limit to what you can do for someone (or at least there should be) who refuses to grow up.

Hey amigo, I get it. haha

Discipline is one of my favorite things. I have acquired a taste for it over the years, much like someone might acquire a taste for a really funky cheese.

I meditate daily. I unplug all weekend almost every weekend -- no computers. I don't even own a cell phone.

But I think through a genetic fluke I have more grit than the average schlub. I also developed it.

Others are born and/or nurtured to have less grit. I don't think sleazy advertisers or gadget-designers should take advantage of the grit-challenged though.

[LDAHL]

Don't worry. A pharmaceutical company will come up with a pill for it which should legitimize it. It's probably already in clinical trials. (Can you tell I'm still agitated by my post in the Trump thread?)

Why not. I understand a fairly significant portion of American kids are being medicated into the right frame of mind on any given day.

[LDAHL]

Others are born and/or nurtured to have less grit. I don't think sleazy advertisers or gadget-designers should take advantage of the grit-challenged though.

What machinery of censorship would you put in place to protect them?

[Ultralight]

Why not. I understand a fairly significant portion of American kids are being medicated into the right frame of mind on any given day.

This is a tragedy of epic proportions.

[Ultralight]

What machinery of censorship would you put in place to protect them?

I dunno... some kind of Net Nanny.

[razz]

The same thing could be said of TV. Have you read "The Plug-in Drug"?
I cannot believe the number of people who take what is presented on TV as solid fact without doing some research or reflection on the content. It is only that cellphones etc are smaller versions for carrying around perhaps?

[LDAHL]

I dunno... some kind of Net Nanny.

We could call it "Big Brother".

[JaneV2.0]

Young whippersnappers today don't have any self-control. Why, back in my day...
:laff:

[Alan]

We could call it "Big Brother".
That would be doubleplusgood.

[Ultralight]

We could call it "Big Brother".

Very catchy. I like it!

Or should I say "Vercatch. Kindalike."?

[Ultralight]

That would be doubleplusgood.

Beat me to that joke and you outdid me! LOL

[Alan]

Beat me to that joke and you outdid me! LOLA joke might result in a facecrime, this was prolefeed.

[Ultralight]

A joke might result in a facecrime, this was prolefeed.

1984 is such a powerful book.

[LDAHL]

1984 is such a powerful book.

It was. Although Brave New World was more prescient.

[Ultralight]

It was. Although Brave New World was more prescient.

Brave New World was as powerful and as interesting.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Young people may very well use their devices too much. And if it costs them their jobs (are there really that many people who get fired for internet surfing or something? There is some epidemic of it or something?). Well on the other hand jobs also REQUIRE many people to have phone and internet connectivity and sometime smart phone capacity (why? oh duh, your doing stuff out in the field say if you have such a job and you have to report stuff back to the old headquarters, log onto a website etc.).

As for social life yea maybe. But for many people it also provides the best access to social life they would EVER have probably. Meetup.com, online dating etc.. Not everyone is some extrovert that's just naturally social but gets distracted from it by their screen. See this internet is destroying people's social lives meme has been going on for decades but every single person I know in person beyond my family or have known previously in person beyond them I met in some way that was initially connected to the internet. Every single person. If not for internet -> no social life at all pretty much. Now sure this is often JUST using the internet as a way to meet people in real life (finding out about a meetup say), but it's still using the internet.

People may be influenced by social trends but the people in that article are by very definition not within any any sort of social norm it seems to me. People who drop out of college due to internet addiction have to be so far outside the norm that .... (yes people drop out of college for all sort of reasons including needing to work too much to survive, but I doubt internet addiction is almost ever one of them).

As for discipline, can't excessive self-discipline, just like excessive self-sacrifice also be damaging to people's lives? Obviously so probably, even if it's less common than the reverse. The Jungians think if we are too good it will generate a heck of a shadow side that we will have to at least symbolically compensate for (if we wish not to act it out. Voting for Trump say is acting it out :) - ok, not in all cases, but you have to admit that man is a heck of a shadow side of the culture to be sure!). See acting it out isn't necessary, but some tribute paid might very well be. Seems some truth to that to me.

[RoseQuartz]

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[ApatheticNoMore]

Personally I suspect society had already completely been destroyed by t.v. by the time the internet came into use and before that it had been completely destroyed by the automobile before t.v. came into use. I mean the automobile itself destroyed communities, it's what it did. The television had people inside isolating and watching t.v.. The internet partly solved some of the problems caused by these two even if it introduced some new problems.

Paying money to go to a gym might not be a good solution, but I don't want a job of backbreaking physical labor, working 12 hours a day in some early factory. No thanks. A job of light physical labor maybe, but people who have to work to live seldom have good choices, they have to take what they can get. I don't think technology is all bad ... tell me how many women died in childbirth before all this technology? A lot.

[RoseQuartz]

.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I agree. I don't hate technology and I don't think becoming obese rather than joining a gym is a wise choice either.

I'm realistic about the gym, I know I wouldn't be able to make time to go so I just settle with walking will have to be it.


It just seems that we've been unable to resist abusing technology and knowing when it benefits us versus destroys us. And that's a great point about cars.

true we are sometimes unable to resist, that can be a problem.


I do miss pre-internet life.

I don't know. I was much more isolated then. I didn't have many people to talk to online or in person. I learned much less about how others lived their lives. I was exposed to a lot less different ideas than I have gotten to know talking to people online etc.. Personally I'm of the age to think the best days of the internet are past though. Blogs, I loved blogs. Chat that wasn't corporate social media, I loved chat. The internet nowdays mostly bores me.

[Ultralight]

I miss pre-internet life so much that I travel back in time to 1992 almost every weekend. No internet. My phone hangs on the wall. And in my mind, computers are still just for nerds.

[Zoe Girl]

pre-internet life? Not sure when that was. My ex was really into computers early, so we had a home computer by 1990 I think and he first started using cell phones on the job by 1994 ish (huge brick type, used to take computer support calls anytime of the day). When i moved out of state the internet and maintaining long distance friendships was a lifesaver. I moved long distance before the internet age and so I know what that was like. Still good to be aware how it can go sideways but I find more use than not in it.

[Ultralight]

pre-internet life? Not sure when that was. My ex was really into computers early, so we had a home computer by 1990 I think and he first started using cell phones on the job by 1994 ish (huge brick type, used to take computer support calls anytime of the day). When i moved out of state the internet and maintaining long distance friendships was a lifesaver. I moved long distance before the internet age and so I know what that was like. Still good to be aware how it can go sideways but I find more use than not in it.

Before Al Gore invented it.

In 1992 I was not internetting or cell phoning and few people I knew were.

But pick a year that better illustrates "unplugged" to you.

[RoseQuartz]

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[Ultralight]

...I'm not going back on Facebook. I'm working at finding real people locally that want more than a newsfeed friendship.

Even my best friend starts many phone conversations with, "So, you're not on Facebook so you didn't see this, but let me tell you about....." Blah.

Stay strong! And yes, it is annoying when you get Facebook translated back into 1992-speak. haha

[ApatheticNoMore]

This year I've cut out social media (killed it December 15, 2015) and have found that I'm really lonely. I was hopeful that my IRL friendships wouldn't be affected by me not having a Facebook, but it turns out I was wrong. It's very lonely, but I'm not going back on Facebook.

I don't do social media, I've tried it at at times, but no I wouldn't go back to facebook particularly, but I don't really use any true social media (this site isn't social media)


I'm working at finding real people locally that want more than a newsfeed friendship.

yea they exist. If they are absolutely anti-technology they are frankly probably more interesting in some cause or other like that than just being with others as their primary motive though (being with others as the motive and end in itself). But if they are primarily interesting in friendship then that's ideal. I still wouldn't know any way to meet people that doesn't start with online friendship ads or online websites like meetup though.

[Ultralight]

I use Meet-up. Why?

Because it is all about actually meeting in person.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I'd still count stuff like that in trying to figure whether internet is good or bad for people's social lives, and all the people married to someone they met online etc..

[Ultralight]

I'd still count stuff like that in trying to figure whether internet is good or bad for people's social lives, and all the people married to someone they met online etc..

What about all the people that get divorced from someone they met online? ;)

For me, Meet-up is a way to manage my social life over the long term. But where it comes in really handy is when you move somewhere new and need to meet new friends. Or... if you are shunned from your social circle. Then Meet-up can help you find a new social circle.

[pinkytoe]

The thing I always wonder is what did I do with my time before the internet. I really don't remember but it scares me how much time I spend on it since I retired a few months ago. Sometimes it feels like a drug the way it pulls me in. It is like when I used to smoke and that urge would come every 30 minutes. I resort to checking with Grandma Google now everytime I need info instead of figuring it out myself.

[RoseQuartz]

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[Ultralight]

The thing I always wonder is what did I do with my time before the internet. I really don't remember but it scares me how much time I spend on it since I retired a few months ago. Sometimes it feels like a drug the way it pulls me in. It is like when I used to smoke and that urge would come every 30 minutes. I resort to checking with Grandma Google now everytime I need info instead of figuring it out myself.

Have you got any unplugged time set aside?

[Ultralight]

It's interesting. I've tried meet-up. I have some personality issues to work through though. :confused: Mainly my introversion and shyness. Once I'm acquainted with folks I do ok, but that initial leap....eek. I've had troubles at least here locally finding people with similar interests that aren't batpoop crazy. The peak oil meet up was so disturbing I canceled my account. Not a fan of fear based stuff, or tinfoil. I'm not into conspiracies either so it was a bad match. The most interesting people I've met are men (like 65+) at the bookstore. I have stuff in common with them and apparently read similar books. But how do you say, "Hey, will you be my grandpa?" without being creepy?

I am a 36 year old man. I spend a lot of time hanging out with women in the 60-70 age range. Ain't nothing wrong with it! We have values in common. We get along. We have fun and joke around.

My advice is to hang around those guys and talk to them as peers, not as a grandpa.

[RoseQuartz]

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[RoseQuartz]

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[Ultralight]

I do talk to them as peers, and they see me as potential mate material. I'm not interested. I guess I don't know how to navigate that.

Oh... I see. Hmmmm...

And you are not interested in dating any of them?

[LDAHL]

Personally I suspect society had already completely been destroyed by t.v.

It's not that bad, surely? I think some pretty interesting things have been accomplished since the invention of television. People inclined to waste time on frivolity have always had no shortage of outlets (if less leisure). Rat-baiting, epic poetry, bardic sagas, professional sports, music or any number of other pastimes have always "destroyed society"; yet here we are.

[RoseQuartz]

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[Ultralight]

It's not that bad, surely? I think some pretty interesting things have been accomplished since the invention of television. People inclined to waste time on frivolity have always had no shortage of outlets (if less leisure). Rat-baiting, epic poetry, bardic sagas, professional sports, music or any number of other pastimes have always "destroyed society"; yet here we are.

I think society can be FUBARed and yet we can still exist as a species.

[Ultralight]

Would I date a man older than my own father? Hmm, maybe if they had a canoe and really liked cats.

I'd date a woman in her 60s.

[Alan]

Having gotten to the age of 40 or so before the World Wide Web opened up the internet to casual users, I appreciate it for the mass communication medium it is although I can assure all you youngsters that in-person social interactions took place before home computers and smart devices, and still can.

[Ultralight]

Having gotten to the age of 40 or so before the World Wide Web opened up the internet to casual users, I appreciate it for the mass communication medium it is although I can assure all you youngsters that in-person social interactions took place before home computers and smart devices, and still can.

I mostly use the intarwebz at work. On the weekends I go IRL! :cool:

[ApatheticNoMore]

It's interesting. I've tried meet-up. I have some personality issues to work through though. Mainly my introversion and shyness. Once I'm acquainted with folks I do ok, but that initial leap....eek.

actually it's not my favorite, most groups I've joined that I liked better were advertised once on craigslist, but that's all spam now, so no longer a good site for such things and many of those things would now advertise on meetup. Also I've done much better meeting people placing friendship ads (oh I do mean friendships ads not a dating service - yes I've used dating websites for dating but not for friendship) than with group meetings, but that seems to get harder over time. So it's not easy. I just think it would be harder if no such thing as the internet existed but all other technology was the same.


I've had troubles at least here locally finding people with similar interests that aren't batpoop crazy. The peak oil meet up was so disturbing I canceled my account.

haha, I've gone to peak oil meetings but I don't think they were that crazy but I'm not really convinced in peak oil at this point (basically there is enough oil to fry the planet several times over and that's probably what will happen - have a nice day :)). Ok maybe I found it a bit extreme, the discourse when I went was on how all property is evil (but ...even personal property, even your own dwelling, etc.?), so yea that seemed a bit extreme at the time (oh and these were in more innocent times as well, before 2008 even).


The most interesting people I've met are men (like 65+) at the bookstore. I have stuff in common with them and apparently read similar books. But how do you say, "Hey, will you be my grandpa?" without being creepy?

I do talk to them as peers, and they see me as potential mate material. I'm not interested. I guess I don't know how to navigate that. I meant grandpa as in non-sexual. I'm not looking for a hookup with anyone, and those overtones tend to make things really awkward.

I've gotten along with much older men (if the age difference is extreme it's sometimes much easier to navigate it being platonic, it's kind of more obvious why you aren't hooking up romantically - oh just a 30 year age difference ...). But I suppose it's always difficult to navigate being friends with the opposite sex.

[RoseQuartz]

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[ApatheticNoMore]

Well that's a lot bigger than the internet. Do cultures lose their flavor because of the internet or because McDonalds moves in, because of television and advertising and global investments and money flow (globalization) etc.. The internet could be used for that. But if McDonalds didn't have internet to advertise in Okinawa I'm sure they would find another way. Okinawa of course is also pretty tired of U.S. military presence at this point I think (which many of them have long viewed as damaging to their culture).

Young people using their devices too much these days might be true, it's just that the meme: "internet etc. is destroying the youth" is 20 years old by this point or something.

[Teacher Terry]

UL: I am shocked that at 36 you would even find someone attractive enough to date at 60. I have known people to do it with maybe 15 years different or of course if they were very rich:))

[Ultralight]

UL: I am shocked that at 36 you would even find someone attractive enough to date at 60. I have known people to do it with maybe 15 years different or of course if they were very rich:))

Not about money. The thing is, I don't want kids. So what difference does it make if a woman is 60? My bigger questions would be:
-Do we share values?
-Do we have fun together?
-Is there mutual physical attraction?
-Does she like my dog?

Stuff like that.