View Full Version : teachers not teaching
This has been an issue of mine for awhile. I think I want to start a facebook page to collect information on what is happening. Basically a lot of trained people are not getting teaching jobs, and we also have a lot of lower income schools who are using Teach For America, alternative licensure programs, etc. to get teachers for the apparent shortage. There are programs in my district to have 'apprentice teachers' working under a teacher for a year before getting a real job, you don't need a teaching degree. Meanwhile teachers who have been let go send out 50-100 resumes and applications to get an interview and a job (not all do).
My personal connection is that I sent out over 500 resumes/applications while substitute teaching and got almost nothing. I got one job and a variety of factors caused me to leave (my daughter was very sick, the principal told me in one month she was planning on firing me at the end of the year and I was going through an 11 month process of legally getting child support). I wasn't that great honestly, but I still think I was better than someone who had 6 weeks of TFA training. So maybe I am not the one who will ever get the job but I very much wanted and still want to be in a classroom. I finally let my license go this year, I am not sure I can ever get back into a teaching position so I am looking at developing my career other ways.
Every year I know a teacher who loses her job over test scores. Others seem to be let go at a certain age, there is no real requirement to show they are not effective teachers. Our district laid off 488 teachers and special providers this year and now is going to job fairs!
I am getting some feedback and advice from local teaching/not teaching friends before I jump in.
iris lilies
6-7-16, 9:12am
You are going to collect information on Facebook about unemployed teachers?
To what end?
iris lilies
6-7-16, 9:18am
My niece just got an elementary school teachng job in Jacksonville, Florida. She was out of college for a year and she worked as a school secretary to get her foot in the door.
Another niece who spent the weekend here with us is getiting her 2nd master's degree while teaching. She is 31 years old. She has been teachng for several years doing ESL work in NE Iowa.
I would say:
Put this project on hold and focusing on kicking the cancer sticks.
I spent 5 years applying, got a couple long term subs, then after a problem with my daughter went back to start again. I have not had one interview in the 5 years I have been applying as an internal candidate in our district. The principal I run after school programs for in my building won't even talk to me about it.
I am thrilled every time someone gets a job, and it is also really really hard to not be in the classroom. It is really hard to celebrate with them when I can't figure out what is so wrong with my application or credentials or what? So I am glad you know some people who got jobs, I hope that they love them.
Oh the purpose is to have a discussion about if there is a teacher shortage? Where are the alternative programs being used? Who is getting Rib'd and if it is based on teacher quality? Are there things people can do to increase the number of trained teachers as compared to TFA and alternative licensure teachers in high needs classrooms? Maybe why teachers are either leaving teaching or not getting jobs.
I would say:
Put this project on hold and focusing on kicking the cancer sticks.
They are not related at all, in fact I need intellectual stimulation for a healthier me.
They are not related at all, in fact I need intellectual stimulation for a healthier me.
Everything is related to everything else. But your choices are your own to make. I was just throwing out a suggestion.
iris lilies
6-7-16, 10:15am
I spent 5 years applying, got a couple long term subs, then after a problem with my daughter went back to start again. I have not had one interview in the 5 years I have been applying as an internal candidate in our district. The principal I run after school programs for in my building won't even talk to me about it.
I am thrilled every time someone gets a job, and it is also really really hard to not be in the classroom. It is really hard to celebrate with them when I can't figure out what is so wrong with my application or credentials or what? So I am glad you know some people who got jobs, I hope that they love them.
Oh the purpose is to have a discussion about if there is a teacher shortage? Where are the alternative programs being used? Who is getting Rib'd and if it is based on teacher quality? Are there things people can do to increase the number of trained teachers as compared to TFA and alternative licensure teachers in high needs classrooms? Maybe why teachers are either leaving teaching or not getting jobs.
I cant see how any of this as a Facebook discussion will yield anything other than gossip and anecdotal information that turns into a bitch session. But if you wish to use that as intellectual stimulation, go for it.
I would imagine that there are any number of controlled studies about employment of classroom teachers since No Child Left Behind and etc went into effect although perhpas those studies don't include Denver.
As a taxpayer I think it is a good thng that teachers are not in a job for life and 486 teachers being swept out may be the right number, the bottom 10%. A quick Google showed the number of teachers in the Denver district to be 5,561, so less than 10% were cleared out. Its a tough job not suitable for everyone who has an interest, and the fact that there are mechanisms to remove ineffective teachers is reassuring as I write my check for real estate taxes that fund our local schools.
I agree (as usual) with Iris Lilies post. Personally, I would stay off Facebook about issues that can be very contentious. Regardless of good reasons. Would require total security, privacy, and an incredibly thick skin.
My husband's former company had a website for retirees and just had to take it down due to the increasing negativity and issues.
There are probably many websites, forums, and Facebook pages already about all kinds of teacher issues.
At a certain point in my hubby's Fortune 500 company, someone (a new consultant maybe) decided that at least 10-15% of employees in every organization and sometimes group had to be marked unsuccessful every year. Even if the whole group/organization was doing a great job. Husband got out of management when that happened.
Ultralight
6-7-16, 10:21am
Personally, I would stay off Facebook about issues that can be very contentious.
It can be a real time-sink too.
My guess is that older teachers are routinely forced out of some districts. And I doubt there are a lot of middle-aged people hired as teachers, despite their training. Young people are generally more tractable--and cheaper.
ApatheticNoMore
6-7-16, 11:09am
I like your project (whether it should be a priority for you I can't say, but curiosity doesn't require some practical end to justify it), although it's true Facebook may not be the best source of data, not a representative sample blah blah.
But if one has no better idea of where to get data I guess it's an idea (and frankly I wouldn't except maybe the Bureau of Labor Statistics, but it probably exists). Any number of things could have gone on with your job search, fields and the economy have ebbs and flows of course, and it may have just been a case of wrong place at the wrong time (yea life is largely luck sometimes, that's the way it goes). But what is going on in general, I don't know.
iris lilies
6-7-16, 11:19am
I like your project (whether it should be a priority for you I can't say, but curiosity doesn't require some practical end to justify it), although it's true Facebook may not be the best source of data, not a representative sample blah blah.
But if one has no better idea of where to get data I guess it's an idea (and frankly I wouldn't except maybe the Bureau of Labor Statistics, but it probably exists). Any number of things could have gone on with your job search, fields and the economy have ebbs and flows of course, and it may have just been a case of wrong place at the wrong time (yea life is largely luck sometimes, that's the way it goes). But what is going on in general, I don't know.
A real investigation to satisfy curiosity and to provide intellectual stimulation would start with a literature search. If the OP doesnt have library privileges at her academic institution it is likely Denver Public Library offers databases containing resources on education. The academic world loves to research itself. Keep in mind all of those master thesis that must be produced--original research is required for them, thousands and thousands of them. Its likely lots of data is out there, and if the OP is truly interested in objective data, she can find it.
Ultralight
6-7-16, 11:44am
I like your project...
It might be a fun project. It might be amusing to see all the wackiness on Facebook.
But what is the goal really?
And, I think of fun projects on the daily.
But since there are only a certain number of hours in a day (after work, after family, after chores, etc.) you have to prioritize.
The question is: Should this be a priority?
I'd say kicking ciggies in a bigger priority. But so also could be more daily meditation or time with family, etc.
It might be interesting to do some research on the subject, but beware of the process becoming just another source of frustration.
Ultralight
6-7-16, 11:54am
It might be interesting to do some research on the subject, but beware of the process becoming just another source of frustration.
Excellent point.
And any general info discovered may or may not have anything to do with the HR issues in one specific school district. Sort of like the school testing scandal that hit the Atlanta? area hard. Can we extrapolate their fraudulent actions to all school districts? No. Denver may have some unique issues.
There is a lot of info out there:
From a report by the Denver school teachers union:
PROFESSIONAL TREATMENT OF TEACHERS
The DPS teacher turnover rate in the 2015-16 school year was 22%, which is well above the national average and twice as high as Cherry Creek Schools which had 10% (CDE, 2016). The Charter School Institute, which is made up of 34 charter schools across the state, reported a turnover rate of 48% in 2013-14 (Chalkbeat, 2015).From our survey: 86% of respondents believe DPS is not moving in the right direction.
EDUCATION
Colorado has the 43rd lowest per-student funding in the country (CPR News 2015). (This was very interesting to me. Older more experienced hires cost more. Are hiring officicals only considering cost?
Ultralight
6-7-16, 12:56pm
At my high school back in the 1990s there were lots of teachers not teaching. But back then we called them "coaches."
At my high school back in the 1990s there were lots of teachers not teaching. But back then we called them "coaches."
I had one of those. He couldn't teach his way out of a wet paper bag. Complete waste of skin. They assigned him a chemistry class for some unknown reason. Only C I got in high school. Mr. Shewbert. He looked like a pug.
I had one of those. He couldn't teach his way out of a wet paper bag. Complete waste of skin. They assigned him a chemistry class for some unknown reason. Only C I got in high school. Mr. Shewbert. He looked like a pug.
We had a Mr. Shewbert too! He was a star baseball player in high school and later came back to be a coach. He "taught" math. I was in his class and did horribly. Everyone, including students and administrators, still called him "Shewbie." That was his baseball nickname. haha
Are you trying to satisfy a question in your mind about who is hired and who is not? Might you not better spend you time on mindfulness or coaching ideas and research which might give you some direction in current employment directions.
Teaching issues for you if you have surrendered your licence are water under the bridge, IMO anyway.
Are you trying to satisfy a question in your mind about who is hired and who is not? Might you not better spend you time on mindfulness or coaching ideas and research which might give you some direction in current employment directions.
Teaching issues for you if you have surrendered your licence are water under the bridge, IMO anyway.
Excellent question and excellent points! :+1:
Lots of excellent discussion, and I am still thinking about it and considering. I do a lot of connecting around Buddhist groups, causes, the teacher's union on FB so that is why I thought of it. Not a lot of cute cat videos for me, and I spend maybe an hour a day total on it managing the Buddhist and personal posts I have or just clicking on cute things to be honest. I don't see a huge time investment above what I am already doing, keep the wackos off of it. But it may not be the best forum for this so I will pause on it. Really I want to give support to teachers who aren't in teaching jobs but want to be, and see if there is anything we can do politically, if anyone at all is talking about this.
Maybe I need to let go, I have a high focus on social justice and it is hard to let go!! I appreciate the statistics on DPS. The per pupil funding is horrible in all of Colorado, and the pot tax money didn't go where we thought so we had better read the fine print better next time! I guess this is partially frustration to see people without licenses get teaching jobs while I know others who are highly qualified not get interviews. The teachers I see leaving or being let go are good teachers, and a few that were pushed out a couple years ago with a big transition really needed to be done. They wouldn't adapt or grow, and were burned out. However I don't think anyone leaving this year is a bad teacher, they are actually some of the best in the school. One had low test scores, several felt unsupported in serious behavior issues, and one is going to Cambodia. Only one is moving for a spouse. That means 12 are leaving, 2 for life issues, 1 being asked to leave (she worked for me as a tutor and coach for 2 years), and 9 are leaving because the school sucks. Out of 40 teachers I would say 6 are over 30.
So why aren't we helping teachers be better, giving them a year or 2 to improve, instead of hiring TFA grads who have 6 weeks of training over a summer in classroom management? They spend the entire first year or two learning while working with our highest challenge kids, and then we don't see improvements or closing the achievement gap. There are special grants and funds for TFA or the Americorps corps members I have worked with for 2 years, but not enough money to hire an extra para who has excellent training. Okay, it is an idea but not my life's work. And as you said UA, all things are connected. When I work on my job, ways to address the achievement gap, ways to address equity in our programs, what we get at the end of the day for behavior issues that carry over, tracking attendance and growth in school, etc. then this is part of my job. A teacher who has been doing this awhile knows how to communicate with us, what is important, how not to pass on a kid who is having a meltdown and think we can magically handle it at the end of the day. A teacher without good training is just barely making it, can't remember which kids go where so we have to search the building, tells me the last month of school that a child has never turned in homework, misses the deadlines for recommending kids for tutoring, and so on. It really is my job,
Maybe I need to let go...
This is an excellent idea. Perhaps just make it a one year experiment. After the year, see if you want to go back to frantically clinging to all these ideas and causes and issues.
It really is my job.
But it does not have to smother you.
This is an excellent idea. Perhaps just make it a one year experiment. After the year, see if you want to go back to frantically clinging to all these ideas and causes and issues.
u.
Edited because I was feeling snarky.
So we each assume a certain amount based on our background. What you have shared about your mom ruining her health in a low wage menial job. When I say I am tired or overworked I am sure that is a lot of what you assume. Also your own personal job situation is a big factor.
My background is watching my mom run a senior daycare starting from scratch, developing a board and a program and sustaining it for 12 years. She ended up hiring a housekeeper just so she could focus on her program. She still volunteers now that she is retired to help people to work with medicaid, plus is on the board for the food bank. My dad did a sales job forever and now he drives blood as a volunteer and is delivering lunches to kids in the park over the summer. So I saw my mom get tired and overwhelmed, grad school for her was almost a 2 hour drive, and she did amazing things. Tired is part of the deal with pretty much any job, but I have a choice to do something meaningful.
Being politically and socially engaged is not frantically clinging I can work on these things and look for ways to connect and not let it take over my life. I have been working on equity a few years, pretty low key but I know what I am talking about and have evidence of working on it. I have stress but I actually love most all of my job ( I really need to fill the assistant position next year). I am not talking about it being a soul sucking waste of time that has no importance in the larger scheme of things on a regular basis.
Okay. Again, the choices are yours to make.
I am just making suggestions.
Something to consider is spreading oneself too thin. I know this phrase is uttered often, and it is ignored as often.
But when we spread ourselves too thin, even with the best of intentions, we dilute the effectiveness we have in the things we do.
I know this from personal experience as a recovered hobby hoarder. I used to do archery, sporting clays, bowfishing, fishing, hunting, foraging, reading, playing an instrument, writing, various forms of activism, documentary videos, origami, gardening, meditation, and on and on and on.
And I found that I did not spend enough time on a particular thing to get good at it. But the times when I "decluttered" my hobbies (on purpose or through circumstance) I got much better at those I really focused on.
Meditation as taught me so much about this issue of focus and going deep on something -- one thing, or just two or three things.
Okay edited my post but you had already replied.
Teacher Terry
6-7-16, 3:17pm
IN NV there is a teacher shortage. The pay is low and we usually are 1 from the very bottom in pupil spending. Only 1 southern state is worse. However, the teachers like the state employees have protections even though there is no mandatory union and striking is prohibited. So teachers here spend their careers teaching if they want to. I don't know why a district would hire people that are not teachers over teachers if they had the choice. Sounds crazy to me. But at point when I lived in the Midwest and the town had a local private teaching college that was excellent and students came from all over to attend the district only hired teachers from out of state instead of the locals. No clue why.
Zoe, is it possible that you didn't get a teaching job due to performance in the position you had? You mentioned that you did not do well and were going to be let go. Teaching can be a small community and maybe word got around that you didn't perform well. Also, you've mentioned that you have had poor performance evaluations in your current district, and if that is so, I think explains why you have not been interviewed/hired in your district.
I do think teaching jobs are to be had, but you may need to relocate quite a distance to get one. So you have to weigh the options...stay and not teach, or move far and teach.
Maybe why teachers are either leaving teaching or not getting jobs.
I'm not a teacher but as a music major I was friends with a number of people in college who became teachers. Based on conversations with pretty much all of them the real question is why have not every single teacher left teaching. Absolutely zero of my teacher college friends enjoys teaching anymore. They all are either keeping their heads down and clinging to their jobs until retirement or they've already escaped and do something else now.
Just MHO, but if you want a teaching job, keep the teaching discussions off social media. Employers can and do check FB, Twitter, etc.
PS- I'm happy to share more in PM if anyone wants to chat.
Zoe, is it possible that you didn't get a teaching job due to performance in the position you had? You mentioned that you did not do well and were going to be let go. Teaching can be a small community and maybe word got around that you didn't perform well. Also, you've mentioned that you have had poor performance evaluations in your current district, and if that is so, I think explains why you have not been interviewed/hired in your district.
I do think teaching jobs are to be had, but you may need to relocate quite a distance to get one. So you have to weigh the options...stay and not teach, or move far and teach.
ZG is losing her job?
I am not sure I am eligible to get another job, and that is fine. However it did take almost 5 years of subbing, working a 2nd job and applying to 500 jobs to get that one. So it was soo painful to leave it. I didn't have a good diagnoses for my own condition so I have to accept that maybe that door is closed. However I just wanted to look at more and bigger picture, I know weird things in getting teaching jobs, like the place that hires out of state. Or my district that is laying off teachers and hiring low trained ones. I did all the right stuff to get that first job, volunteered, kept learning, etc. Then I heard that volunteering doesn't matter from some admins.
I am only thinking about this since I have let my license go and therefore I am not at risk of looking bad to a principal.
UA, I am not losing my job. I am not a teacher, I am a site supervisor for before and after school programs and summer programs.
UA: Zoe said the principal was going to let her go from a previous teaching position. Not the position she is currently in (running after school and summer programs).
I'm not a teacher but as a music major I was friends with a number of people in college who became teachers. Based on conversations with pretty much all of them the real question is why have not every single teacher left teaching. Absolutely zero of my teacher college friends enjoys teaching anymore. They all are either keeping their heads down and clinging to their jobs until retirement or they've already escaped and do something else now.
I talked to some of the teachers who are leaving and specifically asked about work load. They put in tremendous hours if they want to keep doing things they think are best as well as keep up with the required data, testing, professional development. It is exhausting. My fave teacher is going to another expeditionary learning school and teaching multiple grades. She has the classroom with all the plants, hands on materials, really engaging and lovely. She also teaches the kids self-regulation. It is typical for her to tell kindergartners to take 3 minutes to meet their needs and come to the carpet. That means clean up, fill water bottles, etc. They really do learn to do this! And work load is her primary reason for leaving this public school.
So, I have to pay for a new sub license, pay for my own background check and work for less than minimum wage in my area (or the surrounding areas) Basically, it takes 3 days of work to pay for the fees!
Hopefully, I will find another job before the sub license is approved.
I did this job off and on for more years than most of you have been alive. Trust me - you have NO IDEA how stressful it is to sub. It isn't just the students, the teachers and administrators are so hostile.
Folks, little children are bringing knives and guns to schools nowadays. I had some really frightening experiences and really don't want to go back to this job.
By the way, I am good at it - but too much danger.
I am thinking Walmart or McDs would be a better choice.
Subs in my state can't be in the union and no benefits either.
Wow Sandy! I feel for you. I taught for 31 years then subbed a bit when I retired, but only for one school that was much easier than my professional school. It is HARD work and the pay stinks. Good luck finding something that pays better.
Ultralight
9-2-16, 12:07pm
Summers off -- never forget that!
greenclaire
9-2-16, 12:33pm
Folks, little children are bringing knives and guns to schools nowadays. I had some really frightening experiences and really don't want to go back to this job.
By the way, I am good at it - but too much danger.
Eeeek! I'm a high school teacher in the UK, I've been teaching since 2005 and haven't come across anything as dangerous as this yet. I really hope we don't go down this track too as I love my job but wouldn't want to face that danger on a daily basis.
I think it is because guns are so easily available and not as highly regulated in the USA. My county is poverty stricken too so that might have something to do with it. I know my neighborhood is getting really bad. Classes sizes are too big and so many kids have special needs. I talked to some teachers and almost all of them are on anxiety meds to cope. No wonder they don't seem bothered by the danger. Maybe the administrators are doing the same thing. Unfortunately, subs don't get insurance so we can't afford meds.
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