View Full Version : Massacre in Orlando......
Wasn't sure where to post this. It was a gay nightclub. So far, just a single gunman walked in and started shooting. 50 dead so far, and many more wounded.
This man's parents are from Afganistan, although he is an American citizen. Time/Invesigation will tell if it's just one person or others, or if he was radicalized....or if he just hated gays. I'm so sad.......again.
gimmethesimplelife
6-12-16, 11:42am
Wasn't sure where to post this. It was a gay nightclub. So far, just a single gunman walked in and started shooting. 50 dead so far, and many more wounded.
This man's parents are from Afganistan, although he is an American citizen. Time/Invesigation will tell if it's just one person or others, or if he was radicalized....or if he just hated gays. I'm so sad.......again.I just read this online. My SO had a breakfast banquet early this AM and left me a note and I just learned of this tragedy. I don't know what to say but I am feeling very world weary this morning. I am also reading this is the deadliest mass shooting in US history. Just crazy. No sense in this at all. Rob
world weary, that is a good word. My daughter posted about it (the one who survived Aurora). 50 people, overwhelming.
On the news this morning they were interviewing a poor lady who couldn't find her son. They wouldn't let her into the "crime scene" where all the dead bodies were, nor would they tell her if he was one of the dead bodies who died at the hospital, or if her son was in critical condition at the hospital. So sad. It reminded me of Sandy Hook and how those dead children had to lie there in that classroom for a day or more, and the parents weren't allowed to be with them. Breaks my heart.
But we'll just shrug our shoulders and move on........... :(
iris lilies
6-12-16, 1:56pm
On the news this morning they were interviewing a poor lady who couldn't find her son. They wouldn't let her into the "crime scene" where all the dead bodies were, nor would they tell her if he was one of the dead bodies who died at the hospital, or if her son was in critical condition at the hospital. So sad. It reminded me of Sandy Hook and how those dead children had to lie there in that classroom for a day or more, and the parents weren't allowed to be with them. Breaks my heart.
But we'll just shrug our shoulders and move on........... :(
I assume that law enforcement is most interested in saving lives, and once that first leg of triage is complete, then they secure the crime scene to preserve evidence. I wouldnt want the shooter to go free due to some rediculous technical glitch where somene screwed up evidence.
Then, law enforcement would be focused on notifying next of kin. Its not the first or second order of business and OF COURsE they are not going to let any tom dick or harry onto the crime site.
I would want any crime scene with my loved one handled objectively and professionally. Would it be painful to be in limbo not knowing? You bet. Does my pain trump rules and regs that have proven effective over time for the good of all victums in this mess? Of couse not.
Just to clarify, I'm not faulting law enforcement........I'm just sympathizing with how difficult it must be for the families of these missing people.
iris lilies
6-12-16, 2:36pm
Just to clarify, I'm not faulting law enforcement........I'm just sympathizing with how difficult it must be for the families of these missing people.
Oh ok. Yep, agreed, a very difficult time.
Yes, I'm assuming I saw the same woman as you CathyA. George Stephanopolos actually interviewed her for longer than a typical family member in a tragedy situation. Her heartbreak was almost too much to bear.
HIPAA policies have been relaxed by federal decree to help identify the dead and wounded.
This is a massive tragedy all right. There doesn't seem to be any direct link with ISIL, though they're indicating approval for the bloodbath. Probably the shooter was just a garden-variety religious fanatic homophobe.
ETA: Or maybe he was just a violent homophobe, using religion/politics as an excuse.
Same thing in Aurora, They did let people go in and get their phones and personal items within about 2 days as I recall. never thought I would see something so much bigger. But I have been wondering when everything that has been happening would start to explode. It is naive to think that we are done with mass shootings anytime soon.
Ultralight
6-13-16, 7:40am
I heard on the news that the guy was tied to ISIS by the FBI and that he called 911 and shouted an Islamic prayer before committing this crime.
I also heard that the shooter himself was gay.
Williamsmith
6-13-16, 7:43am
HIPAA policies have been relaxed by federal decree to help identify the dead and wounded.
This is a massive tragedy all right. There doesn't seem to be any direct link with ISIL, though they're indicating approval for the bloodbath. Probably the shooter was just a garden-variety religious fanatic homophobe.
ETA: Or maybe he was just a violent homophobe, using religion/politics as an excuse.
"When you hear hoof beats behind you, think horses not zebras."
He was apparently an ISIL wannabe with a personal hatred of gays.
iris lilies
6-13-16, 11:04am
He was apparently an ISIL wannabe with a personal hatred of gays.
But ISIS is praising the shooter for his work, even though they put no resources into it.
edited to add:
and Westboro Baptist Church is praisng his work as well, so there's that.
But ISIS is praising the shooter for his work, even though they put no resources into it.
edited to add:
and Westboro Baptist Church is praisng his work as well, so there's that.
Yeah, the rabid fundy Christians are quoting Bible verses to justify execution of gay people, predictably. The Old Testament is hugely popular with those knuckle-dragging oafs. I don't think most of them have even read the New Testament, where Jesus says nothing about gay people at all.
iris lilies
6-13-16, 11:28am
Yeah, the rabid fundy Christians are quoting Bible verses to justify execution of gay people, predictably. The Old Testament is hugely popular with those knuckle-dragging oafs. I don't think most of them have even read the New Testament, where Jesus says nothing about gay people at all.
Are you talking about the Texas Lt.governor's quote?
Are you talking about the Texas Lt.governor's quote?
Primarily. There have been a number of legislators traveling to Africa to talk up anti-gay laws--that include executions--in the last few years.
Ultralight
6-13-16, 11:31am
Are you talking about the Texas Lt.governor's quote?
???!!!
Primarily. There have been a number of legislators traveling to Africa to talk up anti-gay laws--that include executions--in the last few years.Really?
Really?
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda
From the article:
Lively is not the only US evangelical who has fanned the flames of anti-gay sentiment in Uganda. As they lose ground at home, where public opinion and law are rapidly shifting in favor of gay equality, religious conservatives have increasingly turned their attention to Africa. And Uganda, with its large Christian population, has been particularly fertile ground for their crusade. Journalist (and past Mother Jones contributor) Jeff Sharlet has reported at length on the Family, a politically connected US-based ministry, which promotes hard-line social policies in the East African nation.
But, according to Ugandan gay rights activists, Lively has played an unparalleled role in fostering the climate of hate that gave rise to Uganda's anti-gay law. "The bill is essentially his creation," says Frank Mugisha, director of Sexual Minorities Uganda, a coalition of gay rights organizations. Mugisha's group has filed a first-of-its-kind lawsuit in US federal court, accusing Lively of international crimes against humanity on the grounds that he and his Ugandan allies allegedly conspired to deprive gay Ugandans of basic human rights.
Ultralight
6-13-16, 12:06pm
Really?
Dang! She showed you.
Williamsmith
6-13-16, 12:35pm
What's this got to do with an Islamic inspired terrorist gunning down gays in a nightclub simply because his God doesn't think they should be kissing?
It's demonstrating that his deadly bias is not confined to Muslims.
Dang! She showed you.
Not really. I couldn't find a reference to any US Legislators lobbying African Nations in the story linked.
I'm guessing you didn't read it though.
Williamsmith
6-13-16, 12:44pm
Isn't that like complaining about the Nazis on the morning of the Pearl Harbor attack?
Ultralight
6-13-16, 12:45pm
Not really. I couldn't find a reference to any US Legislators lobbying African Nations in the story linked.
I'm guessing you didn't read it though.
I am not bored enough to read it but I am bored enough to make immature comments. hahaha
I am not bored enough to read it but I am bored enough to make immature comments. hahahaTrue Dat!
Ultralight
6-13-16, 12:51pm
True Dat!
LOL!!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129422524
The American politicians here belong to a semi-secret organization called The Family, many of whom live together in a property on C Street in Washington DC.
From the article:
"It was a very chilling moment, because I'm sitting there with this man who's talking about his plans for genocide, and has demonstrated over the period of my relationship with him that he's not some back bencher — he's a real rising star in the movement," Sharlet says. "This was something that I hadn't understood before I went to Uganda, that this was a guy with real potential and real sway and increasingly a following in Uganda."
And he has connections to American leaders. Sharlet explains that Bahati is one of the Uganda leaders of an American evangelical movement called the Fellowship, or the Family — the secretive fellowship of powerful Christian politicians who wield considerable political influence, both in Washington and abroad.
"I discovered ... that there was this very direct relationship," Sharlet says. "And [the Fellowship members] are emphatic and saying: 'We haven't killed any gay people in Uganda. This isn't what we had in mind. We didn't pull the trigger.' And that's true. They didn't pull the trigger. But there's a sense in which they built the gun, which was this institutional idea of government being decided by small groups of elite leaders like Bahati, getting together and trying to conform government to their idea of Biblical law. And this is what their American benefactors wanted them to do."
Sharlet has written extensively about the Family, whose members include senators and representatives. He's the author of The Family and the forthcoming book, C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy. Sharlet is a contributing editor for Harper's Magazine and Rolling Stone. His work has also appeared in The Washington Post and Mother Jones
iris lilies
6-13-16, 1:38pm
Primarily. There have been a number of legislators traveling to Africa to talk up anti-gay laws--that include executions--in the last few years.
From People.com
" Texas Lt. Governor r Dan Patrickfaced a social media backlash for what some perceive as anti-gay commentary after Sunday's mass shooting at a popular Orlando, Florida, gay nightclub (http://www.people.com/article/pulse-gay-nightclub-shooting-orlando).
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows," Patrick tweeted Sunday morning (http://www.chron.com/news/article/Texas-Lt-Governor-Dan-Patrick-tweets-reap-what-8076147.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter), quoting the Bible, hours after a mass shooting at Orlando's Pulse which left at least 50 people dead and 53 injured (http://www.people.com/article/orlando-mass-shooting-witness-outside-pulse-gay-nightclub). Officials have called the attack the deadliest mass shooting in American history."
but his tweet was not about the Orlando tragedy. The verse was programmed last week to go up on Twitter and Facebook on Sunday. An accident of timing. Not the malicious Fundy reaction people love.
It's true that these ugly, self-righteous pronouncements are made all the time; I don't know why we should be surprised when they coincide with tragic events.
iris lilies
6-13-16, 4:11pm
It's true that these ugly, self-righteous pronouncements are made all the time; I don't know why we should be surprised when they coincide with tragic events.
"A man reaps what he sows" seems to me to be the same message as "karma is a bitch" which many people seem to actually believe in, the karma I mean. Ive seen that belief expressed on this board.
"A man reaps what he sows" seems to me to be the same message as "karma is a bitch" which many people seem to actually believe in, the karma I mean. Ive seen that belief expressed on this board.
In the vanilla sense of the phrase, true. But you'd really have to compare it to what else he has said to get a flavor of what reaping and sowing he may have been referring to.
He was apparently an ISIL wannabe with a personal hatred of gays.Well it must have been a self-loathing kinda thing: http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-used-to-visit-orlando-gay-club-use-gay-dating-apps/
Well it must have been a self-loathing kinda thing: http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-used-to-visit-orlando-gay-club-use-gay-dating-apps/
Indeed. I had a suspicion or two before this news broke. I think a lot (all?) of rabid gay-haters fall into this category.
IshbelRobertson
6-14-16, 12:25pm
Westboro Baptists come to mind!
Williamsmith
6-14-16, 12:36pm
Indeed. I had a suspicion or two before this news broke. I think a lot (all?) of rabid gay-haters fall into this category.
As the Hildabeast once famously shrieked, "At this point, what difference does it make!"
Ultralight
6-14-16, 12:46pm
As the Hildabeast once famously shrieked, "At this point, what difference does it make!"
We need to create a worldwide culture where being LGTBQQIA is totally acceptable.
Williamsmith
6-14-16, 1:01pm
We need to create a worldwide culture where being LGTBQQIA is totally acceptable.
Knowing thine enemy and acknowledging that they are not just intolerant of LGBT....LMNOP......QRSTUVWXY and Z............but that they believe it is a criminal offense punishable by death. That might be a good start.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 1:03pm
Knowing thine enemy and acknowledging that they are not just intolerant of LGBT....LMNOP......QRSTUVWXY and Z............but that they believe it is a criminal offense punishable by death. That might be a good start.
LGBTQQIA actually stand for real people's orientations. Have some respect.
Williamsmith
6-14-16, 1:13pm
I'm a dumb hillbilly....have some tolerance. And dumb hillbilly has been an orientation around for a long long time.
LGBTQQIA actually stand for real people's orientations. Have some respect.
I fall under several of those letters, and did not find his words disrespectful. Perhaps a more productive path as an "ally" would be to engage in discussion about language/statements you find troublesome, instead of going into attack mode.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 1:29pm
I fall under several of those letters, and did not find his words disrespectful. Perhaps a more productive path as an "ally" would be to engage in discussion about language/statements you find troublesome, instead of going into attack mode.
Attack mode is way too strong an assessment. It was more like: "Come on, dude."
Attack mode is way too strong an assessment. It was more like: "Come on, dude."
"Have some respect." - Come now, we are men of action, lies do not become us.
You issued him an order, and accused him of not having respect. That's attack-mode. It shuts down communication. Doesn't bring about further understanding. Probably turns people away from the conversation. Bad ally-ship.
iris lilies
6-14-16, 1:37pm
Westboro Baptists come to mind!
No, thats an economic enterprise and their dislike for the LBGT lifestyle, if that dislike even exists, is secondary to the money they collect from actions of angry liberals who deny them freedom of assembly.
Westboro is having a field day with the Orlando tragedy, it pumps up their profile. Time to march and collect lawsuit awards!
Ultralight
6-14-16, 1:40pm
"Have some respect." - Come now, we are men of action, lies do not become us.
You issued him an order, and accused him of not having respect. That's attack-mode. It shuts down communication. Doesn't bring about further understanding. Probably turns people away from the conversation. Bad ally-ship.
bae:
Nope, really. If we were in person you'd probably have heard a tone accurate to what I described.
And puh-lease... issuing an order? LOL
And just because you were not offended does not mean that no one else in the LGBTQQIA community would not be. But I don't often make a big deal about being offended or offending people. Which was why I was like "Come on, dude"/"Have some respect."
But take it how you will. And deem me a bad ally. That is on you, amigo.
Has no one noticed that Ultralite is mostly about posturing, poking the bear, being the forum equivalent of an agent provocateur, then sitting back on his haunches enjoying the show?
Has no one noticed that Ultralite is mostly about posturing, poking the bear, being the forum equivalent of an agent provocateur, then sitting back on his haunches enjoying the show?
Oh yes! Lots of folks.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 2:45pm
Has no one noticed that Ultralite is mostly about posturing, poking the bear, being the forum equivalent of an agent provocateur, then sitting back on his haunches enjoying the show?
Uh... not so much on this thread, Jane. But others? Yes.
Has no one noticed that Ultralite is mostly about posturing, poking the bear, being the forum equivalent of an agent provocateur, then sitting back on his haunches enjoying the show?
Ayup.
iris lilies
6-14-16, 2:48pm
Has no one noticed that Ultralite is mostly about posturing, poking the bear, being the forum equivalent of an agent provocateur, then sitting back on his haunches enjoying the show?
Which is why they would eat him alive on the MMM site.
Here, teasing the old folks who are too feeble to run after him is better sport.
Which is why they would eat him alive on the MMM site.
Here, teasing the old folks who are too feeble to run after him is better sport.
I think the problem here is our facade of politeness. It tends to stay the hand.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 3:12pm
Which is why they would eat him alive on the MMM site.
Do tell. But in a PM. I don't think that this is a matter for this thread.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 3:12pm
I think the problem here is our facade of politeness. It tends to stay the hand.
PM me if you like.
I think the problem here is our facade of politeness. It tends to stay the hand.
Which is why I didn't bestir myself after his Pygmalion riff.
I just thought he had his jerk pants on today.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 3:24pm
This is not the thread to zing me on. Zing in PM or even create a new thread.
iris lilies
6-14-16, 3:30pm
This is not the thread to zing me on. Zing in PM or even create a new thread.
Hey, you are right. I forgot whch thread we were on.
Ultralight
6-14-16, 3:51pm
Hey, you are right. I forgot whch thread we were on.
It is alright. I did earlier too.
This is a sensitive thread, that is all.
What's QIA?
Questioning. Intersex. Ally.
iris lilies
6-14-16, 7:22pm
What's QIA?
Its QQIA which means
Queer, Questioning,
Intersex, Affiliates
the test will be tomorrow, study up!
edited to add that I see I failed the freeking test already. Ally, not affiliates.
Once again I search for an eye rolling emoticon and cant find it. i need it.
So, tonight I have a mandatory joint-agency 4-hour "active shooter" training event. How timely :-(
I would encourage those of you who can to get some decent first aid training, and learn what you can do to help during this sort of thing. One of my regular partners was running the Boston Marathon when the bombs went off, and managed to help people just with his medical training and materials he scavenged from bystanders and his own clothing.
"If you save only one life, it is as if you have saved the whole world."
Ultralight
6-14-16, 7:29pm
This is worth reading:
Admit It: These Terrorists Are Muslims"There’s a lot of special pleading about Orlando from Muslims and liberals. It’s time to do away with that"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/14/admit-it-these-terrorists-are-muslims.html
This is worth reading:
Admit It: These Terrorists Are Muslims"There’s a lot of special pleading about Orlando from Muslims and liberals. It’s time to do away with that"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/14/admit-it-these-terrorists-are-muslims.html
If you're going to paint with that brush it's going to need a lot more religions on it than just Islam.
Added: Pastor refuses to mourn Orlando victims: ‘The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/06/14/pastor-refuses-to-mourn-orlando-victims-the-tragedy-is-that-more-of-them-didnt-die/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pastor-1250pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
If you're going to paint with that brush it's going to need a lot more religions on it than just Islam.
uh yeah, I would love to say the Buddhists got it right but they have their own issues in some countries.
Last night at our meditation group I could tell my grief is coming out sideways, during the quietest time there is a church across the street that does their musical part every week. So it isn't loud, hasn't ever bothered me, but last night something about all of this and I had a flash of wanting to go over there and tell them to just shut up. All religions just shut up, You just never know what you are getting with someone religious. They could be taking on the best of the lessons of their faith or they could be part of the constant commentary on other people's lives, judgmental and hurtful. I just want all of them to shut up right now, no offerings of prayers or anything, just let us grieve.
I have only cried twice in the last couple of days, but I have definitely cried, went numb, got angry, all of it.
So, tonight I have a mandatory joint-agency 4-hour "active shooter" training event. How timely :-(
I would encourage those of you who can to get some decent first aid training, and learn what you can do to help during this sort of thing. One of my regular partners was running the Boston Marathon when the bombs went off, and managed to help people just with his medical training and materials he scavenged from bystanders and his own clothing.
"If you save only one life, it is as if you have saved the whole world."
I did a FEMA with youth training a few years ago. It was really good, made me want to work with high schoolers since they got to do mock accident training (I work with elementary kids). Then I brought it back to my team and started by asking how many of them had a first aid kit in their car, maybe a blanket, gallon of water, etc. I work with a prepared group because we all had that, we go through FA/CPR almost every year, but I would like to take some more advanced training. Good to know that people have some skills in this area and are willing to use them.
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