View Full Version : How advertising got (many of) us to actually pay for water
http://priceonomics.com/the-ad-campaign-that-convinced-americans-to-pay/
I usually get push-back on these forums when I suggest that we are all compelled to consume because of advertising and marketing campaigns. We simple livers are above it--we're smarter--we aren't consumers the same way everyone else is.
Maybe, maybe not. But this is a really interesting case study of how a lot of people out there wound up in the position of paying a LOT of money for something that's free.
Ultralight
7-6-16, 11:22am
I am above it! ;)
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-16, 11:39am
Well advertising and maybe the news. I mean can anyone really deny the people in Flint would be better off if they had consumed bottle water? How many people do you think Flint converted to bottled water? Best advertising the bottled water companies EVER got I'd say. Yea it's theoretically possible bottled water could have Flint levels of lead, it just hasn't happened yet.
Real problems like the people in charge of Flint water needing to be sent to jail for life are never addressed but people are mocked for their purchasing habits. Gotta love this country we live in!
I usually get push-back on these forums when I suggest that we are all compelled to consume because of advertising and marketing campaigns. We simple livers are above it--we're smarter--we aren't consumers the same way everyone else is.
well not owning a t.v. and not watching any movies has to limit one's exposure to advertising no? My bf doesn't own a t.v. either and hadn't for about a decade before meeting me. It pleases me greatly. Nah, I never see internet ads either due to ad-blocking software. And because I do think advertising has an effect I don't thumb through the store ads. I think couponing is a scam as all those ads coupons are attached to have to get you to consume more really. So how much advertising does anyone really even see if they live a no media life? I don't think I'm immune to advertising, I just don't consume any media at this point but ad-blocked internet and books mostly so I simply don't think I'm exposed to all that much advertising. I do see billboards, they annoy me, I'm quite sure I've never bought a product due to the billboards (it helps that they are mostly advertising movies etc.)
I remember reading long, long ago about coffee growers worried about the new generation's love of soda in the morning rather than coffee. How could they market to capture them? Starbucks, coffee drinks that are only milk, cream and flavoring. Then the soda companies became concerned....enter bottled water- now entire rows in the grocery store are filled with water and young kids think that's the only way to drink it. Great advertising I'd say. I still drink black coffee from PortoRico coffee company in NY and water from my tap...well water.
Well, to be fair, water from your tap isn't "free" - there are significant costs, even if it is from your own water source.
I help run my village's water system, serving ~1100 households and businesses. We just this year won the State's Award Of Excellence for our operation, and are just about the only system in the state with as lengthy a documented period of (voluntarily) greatly exceeding the water safety quality standards. We also frequently win "best-tasting water" competitions in the region. A single household receives an allotment of 5000 gallons per month, most end up using about 3000, and their cost is ~$39/month. We have real-time telemetry in place on our meters now for leak detection and useage monitoring. Our sources are 50% wells pumping (carefully) water from the small aquifer under the island, which retires a network of monitoring stations for well levels and saltwater intrusion. Our other 50% is rainwater, stored in a reservoir on the mountain in a large large we constructed. We have pumps, pressure reduction/boosting stations, treatment facilities, filtering facilities, generators for backup power, and a zillion other things to keep the system working.
None of this is cheap.
Well, to be fair, water from your tap isn't "free" - there are significant costs, even if it is from your own water source.
None of this is cheap.
That's for sure. The city I live in just finished several years getting authorization from the Great Lakes Compact signatories to spend a couple of hundred million on infrastructure to tap (and treat and return) Lake Michigan water. Our aquifer contains naturally occurring radium that causes our tap water to emit about 15 picocuries per liter. We get charged for water usage on a scale that increases the per-gallon cost as consumption passes certain limits.
Teacher Terry
7-6-16, 2:44pm
I have never been into drinking bottled water because it seems stupid to pay for it when I pay a water bill. But I know lots of people that do. It is such a shame what happened to those people in Flint. Officials don't care when something effects poor black people. They need to go to jail to set a precedent that this is not acceptable.
I agree that Flint is a tragedy and an unusual situation that calls for bottled water. But in general bottled water seems like such a waste of money and resources (manufacture of plastic bottles, disposal of plastic bottles).
I had an aha moment when traveling one time. I had gotten off the plane, didn't stop for water, and by the time I got to the hotel I was so thirsty. However, while usually there's a $7 bottle of water sitting in your room (which, frankly, I would have drank I was so desperate), this time--nada. No overpriced bottle of water to quench my thirst. While I was washing my face in the bathroom, I pleaded to the heavens asking, isn't there any way for me to get a drink of water?? And guess what--I noticed that the same stuff I was washing my face with JUST MIGHT be suitable for drinking! After all, I wasn't in Mexico. And, the hotel also conveniently had glasses in the bathroom for my drinking pleasure! Wow!
I really gave myself a beating over that experience--especially since I was never a bottled water consumer. Yet, I couldn't believe how far I had gone over the brink to the Land of Dasani! Because municipal water systems vary, I don't think I trusted any old city's water and relied on bottled water for consistency in my travels.
But guess what--drinking water out of the Marriott taps didn't kill me, believe it or not. I've lived to tel the tale.
We carry (reusable) water bottles everywhere here in Colorado. Overall we have pretty good water so tap water tastes good. However my son realized very quickly why everyone in his high school carried their own water bottle, the water in the fountains was horrible. His water bottle had tap water from home in it, but school water was not good tasting.
Has anyone (outside of Flint) had this happen, I lived in a small town in an agricultural area and we sometimes got warnings about the water quality. We would get the larger bottles of water instead of the small ones but still we were not supposed to drink tap water for a week or so. It made me really aware of water, would I have to drive to San Jose to fill up water? Would a water filter on the tap be good enough?
Well, to be fair, water from your tap isn't "free" - there are significant costs, even if it is from your own water source.
I help run my village's water system, serving ~1100 households and businesses. We just this year won the State's Award Of Excellence for our operation, and are just about the only system in the state with as lengthy a documented period of (voluntarily) greatly exceeding the water safety quality standards. We also frequently win "best-tasting water" competitions in the region. A single household receives an allotment of 5000 gallons per month, most end up using about 3000, and their cost is ~$39/month. We have real-time telemetry in place on our meters now for leak detection and useage monitoring. Our sources are 50% wells pumping (carefully) water from the small aquifer under the island, which retires a network of monitoring stations for well levels and saltwater intrusion. Our other 50% is rainwater, stored in a reservoir on the mountain in a large large we constructed. We have pumps, pressure reduction/boosting stations, treatment facilities, filtering facilities, generators for backup power, and a zillion other things to keep the system working.
None of this is cheap.
How much of the cost is covered by the $39'fee? Obviously that's not free but it's certainly an order of magnitude cheaper than the cost of bottled water and almost certainly just as safe and healthy as bottled.
I recall reading recently about a college football stadium that was recently built that had no water fountains. The idea was to bilk fans for overpriced bottled water. Then, on opening game day, they ran out of bottled water because the weather was exceptionally warm. Numerous people suffered heat stroke, etc, because of dehydration. An uproar ensued and now there are drinking fountains.
How much of the cost is covered by the $39'fee? Obviously that's not free but it's certainly an order of magnitude cheaper than the cost of bottled water and almost certainly just as safe and healthy as bottled.
That covers our entire operational and production costs. Expansion of the system is paid for by healthy fees for new connections, we have a pretty firm "development pays for development" policy, and don't "tax" our members to subsidize development. A new connection, if there is a main in your area, is about $13000 these days, which is still a better deal than a well here. If there is no main in your area, guess what - you get to pay for the main extension. If you're clever, you work out a cost-sharing deal with your neighbors.
Our water probably is safer and healthier than J. Random Co's Bottled water, as we do real-time quality testing, have production facilities with redundant systems and error detection, and have to submit mountains of paperwork to the state and county health authorities. Probably why we just won the statewide quality award.
There's a company in town that bottles our water right out of the tap, marks it up, and sells it to the tourists. Sort of funny, as we have a free faucet at one of our facilities about a 2 minute walk from their store, where you can fill up for free.
There was a rash of articles not long ago saying that bottled water isn't necessarily safer or better than tap water. Of course if you live in Flint, bottled water is probably better. Then there's the plastic bottle, which with bottling and transportation costs is the majority of the price and has little to do with the water. I vaguely recall that the cost of bottled water per unit volume is more expensive than gasoline, although I'd rather drink water. Definitely a marketing ploy that has worked well.
iris lilies
7-6-16, 6:04pm
I agree that Flint is a tragedy and an unusual situation that calls for bottled water. But in general bottled water seems like such a waste of money and resources (manufacture of plastic bottles, disposal of plastic bottles).
I had an aha moment when traveling one time. I had gotten off the plane, didn't stop for water, and by the time I got to the hotel I was so thirsty. However, while usually there's a $7 bottle of water sitting in your room (which, frankly, I would have drank I was so desperate), this time--nada. No overpriced bottle of water to quench my thirst. While I was washing my face in the bathroom, I pleaded to the heavens asking, isn't there any way for me to get a drink of water?? And guess what--I noticed that the same stuff I was washing my face with JUST MIGHT be suitable for drinking! After all, I wasn't in Mexico. And, the hotel also conveniently had glasses in the bathroom for my drinking pleasure! Wow!
I really gave myself a beating over that experience--especially since I was never a bottled water consumer. Yet, I couldn't believe how far I had gone over the brink to the Land of Dasani! Because municipal water systems vary, I don't think I trusted any old city's water and relied on bottled water for consistency in my travels.
But guess what--drinking water out of the Marriott taps didn't kill me, believe it or not. I've lived to tel the tale.
I arrived at my lily conference in Chicago to find that registrants are given the typical canvas bag PLUS a bottle of water.
Double waste.
But the canvas bag has the logo of the conference! That is SO worth it. Not.
someone who likes to spend money was in charge of these bags, they are unusually sturdy and I have no use for them and now my household has two of them. Yay us.
There was a rash of articles not long ago saying that bottled water isn't necessarily safer or better than tap water.
My dentist recently told me that she had someone in to do a lunch and learn for her staff who told them that Dasani water, specifically, is less good for you than tap. Not because it's contaminated with bacteria or anything, but because they put a small amount of citric acid in it to make it taste better. And I will admit it does taste really good... But that citric acid changes the ph to from a neutral 7.0 that water normally is to an acidic 5.2 (I think is what she said.) Acidic things are harder on one's teeth. Drinking it once in a while most likely doesn't hurt, but if you drink it every night at bedtime you're probably going to have dental issues over the long run as a result.
I think the EPA standard for drinking water is a pH of 6.5 -> 8.5. A pH of 5.2 is about what you'd expect to find in black coffee. Yipes!
Simplemind
7-7-16, 12:01am
I grew up with weird food issues handed down from my mom. She never let us get beverages on the rare times that we went out to eat. Food was only consumed at breakfast, lunch and dinner. To this day if makes me nuts to see food and drink as "entertainment". You never used to see people walking around carrying a beverage unless they were wearing hiking boots going up a mountain. No people have a cup or bottle attached to their hands for their minute by minute hydration needs. People munching on snacks while walking or driving. Big gulps?? How in the hell could anybody be that thirsty? I worked with several people who would go through a six pack of Pepsi in a shift. WTH? These were the same people who always complained about being broke. Um, your Starbucks habit is costing you a fortune but God forbid should you drink a cup of coffee at home before you come to work. I'm sure its just me....... mom wouldn't let us come in for a drink of water. she would have us stay outside and drink from the hose.
I arrived at my lily conference in Chicago to find that registrants are given the typical canvas bag PLUS a bottle of water.
Double waste.
But the canvas bag has the logo of the conference! That is SO worth it. Not.
someone who likes to spend money was in charge of these bags, they are unusually sturdy and I have no use for them and now my household has two of them. Yay us.
I know what you mean about those conference bags! And it also annoys me that sometimes the bags people buy to bring to the supermarket are resource-heavy, too. Either they're made oversees, or they're made with some type of plastic, but people feel they're being "green" by buying them at the check-out.
There's a company in town that bottles our water right out of the tap, marks it up, and sells it to the tourists. Sort of funny, as we have a free faucet at one of our facilities about a 2 minute walk from their store, where you can fill up for free.
Makes me think about that old device that went the way of pay phones: water fountains. They used to be ubiquitous--in school hallways and parks and all over.
Not sure how true this is, but I've read that Nestle is exploiting the little water the West Coast has, and that they feel no misgivings about privatization of all water. I do believe there is some truth to this--if anyone knows more, I'd love to hear it. The president has been quoted as saying that water is NOT a human right. ETA: I've just done my own looking on the internet, and as is usually the case, there's a wider context to the statement he made over 10 years ago. He has consistently said that he believes access to water is a human right. But at the same time, I believe that any time corporate giants set their sights on the money to be made from things that are naturally free, like water, air, let the buyer beware.
I grew up with weird food issues handed down from my mom. She never let us get beverages on the rare times that we went out to eat. Food was only consumed at breakfast, lunch and dinner. To this day if makes me nuts to see food and drink as "entertainment". You never used to see people walking around carrying a beverage unless they were wearing hiking boots going up a mountain. No people have a cup or bottle attached to their hands for their minute by minute hydration needs. People munching on snacks while walking or driving. Big gulps?? How in the hell could anybody be that thirsty? I worked with several people who would go through a six pack of Pepsi in a shift. WTH? These were the same people who always complained about being broke. Um, your Starbucks habit is costing you a fortune but God forbid should you drink a cup of coffee at home before you come to work. I'm sure its just me....... mom wouldn't let us come in for a drink of water. she would have us stay outside and drink from the hose.
Your mom had the right idea. Constant intake of food and beverages, and the resulting insulin production, have wrought havoc with peoples' metabolisms--diabetes type 2, anyone? In response, some doctors and researchers recommend intermittent fasting as a means to bring insulin production back to baseline. Everything old is new again.
Corporate giants absolutely want to take over things like water and try to make big profits off of it.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/04/08/leasing-the-rain
Corporate giants absolutely want to take over things like water and try to make big profits off of it.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/04/08/leasing-the-rain
Of course.
ToomuchStuff
7-8-16, 2:00am
If water was a human right, then we would be doing things like paying for importing it into third world countries, desert regions, etc. We might also at this point, have built multiple desalination plants around the world.
But bottled water does serve useful purposes; disaster area's, emergency crews for things like fires, etc). I do however always think of the joke, what does Evian spell backwards?
I know what you mean about those conference bags! And it also annoys me that sometimes the bags people buy to bring to the supermarket are resource-heavy, too. Either they're made oversees, or they're made with some type of plastic, but people feel they're being "green" by buying them at the check-out.
I have been using re-usable bags for over 25 years, I was in Boulder after all. Some of my best ones are the oldest canvas ones. i got one from the grocery check out and it really wasn't great. However at those events I usually get more than one bag because other people know I will use them. I shop for snacks and supplies for summer camp and these can be big shopping trips. Most all of the time I use no plastic one-use bags because I have my bags and some cardboard boxes with me.
The biggest thing I see is people buying the bags and the re-usable water bottles since it looks cool at check out and then not actually using them! Grr,
I doubt any sturdy bag would go to waste these days. I can never find them at the thrifts.
Mine, after years and years of use, will need to be replaced soon. I may break into my fabric stash and actually make a set...
With the new sewing machine I bought myself for my BD.
ApatheticNoMore
7-8-16, 9:45am
Yea I'd give the person purchasing bags props for at least getting the sturdy canvas type not the cheap flimsy type. Despite the money it's a better choice if they think for some reason they have to give bags, the flimsy ones fall apart in the wash, they may be cheap, but they are super wasteful.
I doubt any sturdy bag would go to waste these days. I can never find them at the thrifts.
Mine, after years and years of use, will need to be replaced soon. I may break into my fabric stash and actually make a set...
With the new sewing machine I bought myself for my BD.
Why are you whispering? :) Congrats on the sewing machine AND happy birthday!
Why are you whispering? :) Congrats on the sewing machine AND happy birthday!
Because I already have sewing machines (In my defense, I need to find homes for two of them), and I bought this one mostly because of its color. It does have a couple of utility stitches that my newest old machine (circa 1975) doesn't have.
https://smile.amazon.com/Janome-13512-Hello-Sewing-Machine/dp/B00EA08JN6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467985400&sr=8-1&keywords=Janome+hello+kitty+red
That is a GREAT color! I think you're due for a new machine. Your previous one is just a couple of years older than mine--I got mine in 1977. When I bought my daughter an entry level machine a couple of years ago, I was thinking how nice it would be to get a new one.
That is a GREAT color! I think you're due for a new machine. Your previous one is just a couple of years older than mine--I got mine in 1977. When I bought my daughter an entry level machine a couple of years ago, I was thinking how nice it would be to get a new one.
:thankyou:Allow me to enable you right back. I don't thing buying a new machine every forty years or so is excessive. :D
"Cute" is not really my style, but this machine makes me smile. Definitely cute.
ApatheticNoMore
7-8-16, 11:10am
Because I already have sewing machines (In my defense, I need to find homes for two of them)
have you put all your sewing machines in a pile and seen how many sewing machines you really have? Probably more than you thought ...
have you put all your sewing machines in a pile and seen how many sewing machines you really have? Probably more than you thought ...
I can count them on one hand...unless they multiply like coat hangers, I should be good.
I travelled to Italy last year for a vacation and it is common to provide the guest with bottled water. They have a strong preference for bottled mineral water. It's commonly served with meals with or without bubbles. It's a habit I brought home. I love the fizzies. So, I am a culprit. I find the taste refreshing. There are trace minerals and salts in the water. I love Perrier and San Pellegrino water.
I fill my travel jug with tap water, but at home relaxing, it's l'acqua minerale per favore :)
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2012-06/how-copy-great-mineral-waters-europe-home
iris lilies
7-13-16, 6:34pm
Jane, I jus read about yur new acquisition. red is a wonderful color!
So, the thing actually sews decently for that price? Wow! It is probably great for quilters wh ise light cottj fabrics.
I thnk it is quilters who are keeping the fabric stores in business these days.
The reviews are pretty good; Janome is a solid brand, according to those who use them. I don't plan to make any tents or horsewear with it.
I love red too--here in the control center :~), all my accessories are red--phone, rolling step stool, filing cabinets. So Kitty will fit right in.
I think the entry-level Bernina is $1000 now, with other models reaching astronomical levels. Glad I got mine early; it still sews like a champ, but doesn't have some of the stitches modern machines come with.
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