View Full Version : Central AC - a good investment? or not?
Last year I started thinking it might be time to invest in installing central AC. The several-years-long drought had taken a toll and we'd had a couple of pretty hot summers. When I asked some friends about their AC usage, they said that they usually set it at 78 degrees. Our house rarely gets that hot. We have lots of trees, an attic fan, a whole-house fan, and double pane Low-E windows. We also have good-sized Hunter ceiling fans in almost every room. All of this helps to keep the house cool, but I was having a hard time with the heat as anything over 75 felt very uncomfortable to me.
So we bought a DeLonghi portable AC unit at Costco for around $300 as a temporary solution. The unit has worked great and our house has never gone over 78 degrees since getting it, it usually maxes out at 77. I'm not crazy about having it sitting in the middle of the house with a plastic tube sticking out the window, but you can't beat the price. I don't know how long this unit will last though.
If we get central AC, we might as well replace the furnace which is at least 25 years old (although it still works fine and I have a hard time justifying the cost of replacing a perfectly good unit) but I know that it's the practical thing to do. We also have original 1961 ductwork which makes sense to replace, and we have asbestos that will need to be removed. I suspect they might need to do some electrical upgrades as well to handle the new load from the AC. Our all-inclusive quoted price last year was around $12-14K depending on the units selected. Labor cost is high in this region.
I've been thinking about whether this investment makes sense. We live in a low humidity area, the summer heat is relatively short-lived, and we have a single floor ranch house. On the other hand, doing it now has several benefits: I'm home so can take care of all the arrangements, dh is working so financially it's a good time, and being in our 40's means we would enjoy the benefits for an extended time. Still, it's a lot of money and this year the weather has been really nice. We've barely used the portable unit at all.
Can you guys help me think this through? Does it seem like a good investment?
I'd be interested to see what you guys set your thermostats at. In the past anything higher than 75 was very uncomfortable for me. But now that I'm working out and getting in a good sweat in the mornings I find that I can tolerate heat much better. Recently our house got to 78 and I still felt comfortable. I was pretty shocked.
ETA: We're in the SF Bay Area and will probably retire in this house.
WE got a portable DeLonghi 4 years ago when our central AC went out in August and we were on a 6 week wait list...it was a life saver! It still works great and we use it in our upstairs in our oldest son's bedroom. The upstairs is an attic remodel 500 sq ft with dormers. It's not hooked up to the central heat/air but instead has a heat/ac wall unit (like in a hotel) the DeLonghi portable is a nice addition because the hotel wall unit really is only made for 300 sq ft.
My brother in Oregon recently broke down and added central air. They didn't need it the first 15 years out there but I think weather patterns have really changed.
I personally can't imagine not having central air but I live in a humid region and don't handle heat well (I'm not a person who sweats or even glistens/glows...instead I trap heat and turn red and get hives) so to me it would be a worthy investment if I intended to live in the house 5+ years. Your resale would be higher because people just expect central ac regardless of the region norms. If it's not bothering you, you might consider setting aside and saving in a separate fund for a future possible install. It might be a better pay-off if you sell to have a brand new one installed at that time or you might have to consider selling with an allowance for central heat/air install.
I had central air--until it quit. But really, it's only usually noticeably hot here (western Washington) for a couple of days a year. I didn't even break out my fan last year.
It really depends on where you live and personal preference.
WE got a portable DeLonghi 4 years ago when our central AC went out in August and we were on a 6 week wait list...it was a life saver! It still works great and we use it in our upstairs in our oldest son's bedroom. The upstairs is an attic remodel 500 sq ft with dormers. It's not hooked up to the central heat/air but instead has a heat/ac wall unit (like in a hotel) the DeLonghi portable is a nice addition because the hotel wall unit really is only made for 300 sq ft.
My brother in Oregon recently broke down and added central air. They didn't need it the first 15 years out there but I think weather patterns have really changed.
I personally can't imagine not having central air but I live in a humid region and don't handle heat well (I'm not a person who sweats or even glistens/glows...instead I trap heat and turn red and get hives) so to me it would be a worthy investment if I intended to live in the house 5+ years. Your resale would be higher because people just expect central ac regardless of the region norms. If it's not bothering you, you might consider setting aside and saving in a separate fund for a future possible install. It might be a better pay-off if you sell to have a brand new one installed at that time or you might have to consider selling with an allowance for central heat/air install.
Aren't those DeLonghi units amazing? I'm so glad to hear yours is still going strong after 4 years. We use one to cool our 1500 sq ft house and it chugs along beautifully.
I'm surprised to hear that people in Oregon have AC. When I visited years ago it seemed so cool and pleasant.
You're probably right that most buyers would expect AC. I know we're one of the few last holdouts here. Most people we know have it. I'm thinking that come menopause I will want it pretty badly. :) And since we're going to retire here, it might be worthwhile. I'm just surprised at how little the heat is affecting me this year.
Here in Central Texas, one would just about die without central AC. Hard to imagine living in a place where it is an option. I say that if it is your forever house and evidently global warming is upon us, go ahead and do it.
And of course, if you have the funds available.
In Indiana we pretty much need it due to very high humidity and heat combined. We keep ours at 76 and use a portable fan when we are sitting instead of cranking on the AC. We do sleep upstairs and use no sheet or blanket in the summer. Keep our bedroom ceiling fan on low all night. Just barely cool enough for comfort. We do have a power attic fan due to the structure of the roof to keep air circulating.
We have two window units, One is big and permanently in the kitchen and will do the living room and dining room well but not so good in the bedrooms. Two years ago we got a wee little window for the master bathroom- the only room with two windows and we put it in today in fact, keep it in through early September. It's a godsend on the week or two of sweltering heat and humidity here in Maryland Piedmont. The house with both on stays at 75 or so- kitchen cooler due to the unit being there. At 67 I am seriously considering central air for our small rancher that has baseboard heat. We plan to stay here as long as we can and hauling out that little AC is hard. I'm waiting for a newer system being invented for ranchers with no ductwork. My friend got the Mitsubici high on the wall unit, but I just think they are ugly. Not that the window unit is beautiful, but the kitchen one is covered with a curtain when not in use and the bathroom one leaves. I used to be able to handle the heat. No more. So, at 40 I would say go for it if you even have an inkling you want it.
I'm not sure what you describe would be a good investment--you'd have to check real estate sites to see what the typical return is. But if an extensive retrofit of your current system makes sense to you, I say go for it. I wouldn't suffer through yearly heat waves just to get my frugality badge. :)
I agree it's a personal opinion. We had central AC when we moved in in 1985, and I'm sure that made my house a 1974 McMansion when the house was built. I know I didn't grow up with AC.
It worked great, until it stopped working about 8 years ago. For 3-4 years I refused to buy a new unit--that was during our housing crisis and I had no money to throw at it. I enjoyed opening the windows and hearing nature sounds. When the heat got really bad, we relied on a window AC unit in my home office, and DH and I would bunk in there. We didn't have to do it all that often.
But when our furnace failed in fall 2010, we figured it made sense to replace the AC unit. We got a high-efficiency one and got a tax credit for it.
So the questions to ask are: how much are you suffering in the heat now? Are there alternatives for a whole-house system? Can you comfortably afford it? Since you're retiring in the house, I would consider your needs above any return-on-investment.
Sonora Shepherd
7-7-16, 10:10pm
We bought a house with an electric forced air furnace. We are on the coast in Oregon. We wanted more efficient heating and bought a ductless heat pump which has been amazing. Our electric bill went down half the first winter we had it. The plus thing we didn't plan on was the air conditioning that comes with a ductless heat pump. We have used it for two summers now because it has been so hot here on the coast. We only use it during the really warm periods. I would recommend one of these to anyone. Our house is 1,600 sq. ft. and have had no problem with a smaller unit to heat and cool. I edited this to add that the original cost of the unit was $3600, but with the local electric utility rebate and the state energy rebate we ended up paying only $1,200 for the unit.
ToomuchStuff
7-8-16, 1:43am
What size unit did you buy? The biggest portable one I have seen, is around 14K btu. That is only rated for (from memory) around 600-800 square feet. If it got real hot, you would be able to cool a large room or part of a house, but not the whole thing. You generally would have to upgrade to a larger window unit for something that might do a whole house that size (24K btu for up to about 1500 square feet).
Are you planning on selling your house soon? (doesn't sound like it, since you said you expect to be in it forever) Do you have the cash to pay for it? The reasons I ask, it I would think you would want an investment, that went up in value. This would just be a home "improvement", that costs, while taking money away that could be invested. You only get the value when you sell. (until then it is a fixed asset, money pit, or a box you live in) A twenty five year old furnace, is getting close to end of life, if it is the style with electronic components. If you have one that still uses thermocouples, then you could get a lot longer out of it. (I live in an area where people still have both gravity furnaces, and 50 year old forced air furnaces)
My dream home (monolithic dome), is different in construction, so that people tend to use radiant heat and buy a window unit, because of it super insulation values (cave like), it requires about 1/2 the btu of a normal place. (cheaper to go with just a window unit, flows as well, due to fewer angles/curved structure) Where your typical box house, you would be needing fans to circulate the air to and from the window unit, or the duct work does it for a central unit. (construction verses efficiency)
The reasons I ask, it I would think you would want an investment, that went up in value. This would just be a home "improvement", that costs, while taking money away that could be invested. You only get the value when you sell. (until then it is a fixed asset, money pit, or a box you live in)
Exactly. An investment has at least a chance/expectation of paying you off at some point.
When we were looking at replacing our windows, window salespeople used the term "investment" as a justification for their prices. Perhaps if every window we had was ill-fitting, drafty, and a single pane thick, we might have made our money back in energy savings if we were prepared to live long enough in this house to die of old age in it. But even by that definition of "investment", for us, it was not a good investment. And it was made all the more complicated by attempting to value touchy-feely factors like esthetics and how much easier it would be to operate the new windows (put a dollar value on those).
I'm guessing there would be research available (on the Web and elsewhere) which would help you figure out how much more or less efficient a portable/room air conditioner is compared to central A/C. You probably could find estimates or guides which would let you SWAG the cost of duct modifications/replacements (or you could bring in contractors for estimates). You might even be able to guess at how often you'd use the A/C based on degree-days or rules like "when it's 90+ degrees outside, it's uncomfortable inside". But even if you could price A/C usage down to the day, is it worth that amount to you? Different people would have different answers.
A twenty five year old furnace, is getting close to end of life, if it is the style with electronic components. If you have one that still uses thermocouples, then you could get a lot longer out of it. (I live in an area where people still have both gravity furnaces, and 50 year old forced air furnaces)
The owner of a 25-year-old furnace would find themselves lucky, indeed, to find replacement parts, especially for those parts more prone to failure, like control boards. Around here, keeping a 25-year-old furnace is taking a real chance. But San Francisco is a different story. So long as it's not unsafe, replacing it is a choice.
It still makes sense to look at costs like comparable real-estate values, how much buyers would add on mentally for adding A/C to the home purchase (almost always a higher number than the real one), the energy costs you do pay, etc. and then to apply those figures to furnaces of varying efficiencies. More efficient furnaces will cost more up front. Except for statistical outliers, no furnace you buy today will last another 25 years. So the question is if there's any semblance of payback on a new furnace and how much that fits into your budget and priorities.
I guess a lot would depend on where you live and the climate. I grew up in a house with central a/c (built in 1968, a/c installed somewhere in the early 70s), which was somewhat unusual at the time (going by the homes of relatives and friends). But my dad's sister was married to a HVAC guy at the time, so my parents got it cost, which was the only reason they could afford it. The unit was huge and lasted until sometime in the early 90s.
Here in the Chicago area, homes without central air are unusual, unless you're in older construction in Chicago (lots of 1920-1940 bungalows). Here, if you didn't have central a/c, I think you'd have a harder time selling your home. Summers can be hot and humid here.
I should clarify. When I said investment, I meant in terms of enjoyment. I'm not really concerned with resale or financial returns. For example, in our area, water is very expensive and tier-priced. We use quite a bit of water during the dry seasons (which can sometimes be most of the year) so pay a lot for it. But the enjoyment we get from our outdoor spaces far outweighs the financial cost. We really enjoy our gardens every day of the year. Big return on investment.
Enjoying our house so much means we rarely have any desire to travel so we do have a financial savings as well, but that's secondary.
The thing with the AC is that we will probably only use it at most 4 weeks out of the year, and even then, only for a few hours each day. So the enjoyment is very limited. What I need to consider is how miserable I might be if I don't have AC during those potentially HOT days! And measure my investment in terms of misery avoided. For both dh and I. Dh doesn't mind the heat, but he does mind how cranky I get when I'm hot. :laff:
I got central air a couple of years ago after going back and forth between that and a swamp cooler. Swamp coolers use less energy and are less expensive, but require a little more maintenance and I hear they don't work well in humid climates, but have some limits on how much they cool. My basic rules for comfort are that if it's not over about 85 or 90 degrees outside I don't use it and can be comfortable. If it's on, I set it at 75 or 76. I got a newer AC unit that is "energy efficient" and with our weather here I really only need it 2 or 3 months of the year on hotter days, mostly in the afternoon and evening and not at night, so it hasn't added much to my utility bills. I have a smaller well insulated house, which helps. All told, I have considered it a very good investment by making my home comfortable. I had one of those smaller portable room units and central air is greatly superior, although a good window unit might have come close to doing the job.
What I need to consider is how miserable I might be if I don't have AC during those potentially HOT days! And measure my investment in terms of misery avoided. For both dh and I. Dh doesn't mind the heat, but he does mind how cranky I get when I'm hot. :laff:
So it's like keeping an old rusty pickup truck on the driveway, licensed and insured for the few times you might need to move something that size. I think most people on this forum would tell you to not keep something you don't use often, especially given the expense (there's not just installing it; there's periodic inspection and running it).
You probably could choose to go to an air-conditioned hotel on the really hot days -- maybe a number of them per summer -- for years and still be ahead of the thousands of dollars it would cost to buy, maintain, and run an air-conditioning system.
ToomuchStuff
7-15-16, 1:22am
Along Steve's line of thoughts. Trucks can be rented. An inexpensive, room a/c could be installed for much less then the cost of central air, and you could either pull it out of the window, or sell it locally, and not have possible headaches from lack of use. Just another option.
i could get by with just heat here in the winter and even that i don't turn up very high we have turned on our window ac about once a week mostly just use fans
We're going through a hot spell (nineties) here in the Seattle area. Like last year, I haven't even broken out the fan. I have (non-functioning) AC and I don't miss it. Being uncomfortable in the Summer makes the arrival of Fall that much sweeter. I would only have central AC if I lived somewhere the heat was relentless and unbearable.
iris lilies
8-20-16, 11:37am
We're going through a hot spell (nineties) here in the Seattle area. Like last year, I haven't even broken out the fan. I have (non-functioning) AC and I don't miss it. Being uncomfortable in the Summer makes the arrival of Fall that much sweeter. I would only have central AC if I lived somewhere the heat was relentless and unbearable.
that would be here. :~)
Most houses in my neighborhood, being tall and skinny, have multiple
HVAC systems for efficiency. When we renovated our house 25+ years ago we put in a system only on the third floor to cool that floor and the 2nd floor bedrooms, but we put in vents for the eventual 1st floor system.For years we couldnt have people over for dinner in the summer unless we were outside because inside was too hot. Well, outside is often pretty damned hot, too!
Then a few years ago we installed AC on the first floor and to this day, I still experience it as a luxury. It is wonderful to cme into a cool kitchen after working outside.t
Our dogs ,appreciate it, too. They live on the first floor, and bulldogs need to be cool. Before we got the 1st floor system the cold air from upstairs would drop down into the first that was coolish, but not great. Durng that time we had an older bulldog who was suffering from the heat, so DH put in a window unit just for her, in "her" room. She had cooled air for the last two years of her life.
There are houses here that still,have no central heat, let alng central AC. We just sold a tiny houses that had never had central systems. Guess they went from a fireplace to electric baseboard heat.
sweetana3
8-20-16, 12:14pm
It is the humidity in Indiana that kills me. The last few weeks it has been like walking into a sauna outside. The AC at least keeps that down to a reasonable amount. We keep the thermostat at 76 because we are home most of the time. If we need more cooling, we turn on a fan.
I just got my electric bill for July and yikes due to the hot and humid weather!
I'm responding to this again as we have decided central air is the way to go for our comfort and to make the house easy to sell when we need to do it. Mainly, comfort. We've had 5 estimates, 2 from larger companies, 1 from a small company and 2 from individuals- all pretty much in the same ball park except the one big company that was 2x as much as any of the others. We're not putting a furnace on it as we have baseboard heat that I find very useful. Now to choose. I have recommendations for two of them, but not doing the same work, just their work ethic. It's a big expense but that's why we've been frugal. It is very humid here most of the summer.
It's been a hot, dry summer here, with today's temperature predicted to be in the nineties. Even so, nights cool down, and I've only been uncomfortable a couple of times the last few months. I haven't even deployed a fan. I would say that here, in the PNW, you could get along pretty well without AC--but I can absolutely see the necessity in other parts of the country.
I have thought about this since my furnace is over 25 years old. But I probably would not spend that kind of money, even though putting in and taking out the window units, and sealing them to prevent insects from getting in the house, is a real hassle.
107 degrees at 6 pm tonight in phoenix. I'd live here without a furnace but never without AC.
Chicken lady
8-27-17, 9:53pm
Late to the party here.
we just replaced the entire hvac with a zone system while doing the addition. We now use the ac a lot more, but with the more efficient system, the electric bill is only a couple of dollars more (literally, $6 in July) humidity is an issue here, so often I will close up the house, "cool" to 76 to lower the humidity, and then change it to 78 or even off.
we have had years in the past where we never used ac, or only a couple of weekends when we had our parents visiting (the heat is harder as you get older. Now I am getting olde.)
we are crafting our house to live in - this is our vacation destination. When the kids were young, going to the 75 cent movie theatre for two hours of ac, or the library for an afternoon, or the pool, was no big deal. Now, I want to stay home. Sometimes I get groceries in the afternoon.
also, I HAVE a rusty old pick up truck in the driveway. The plate renewal arrived yesterday.
My kids have two electric cars and a Ford Focus from the early 90s. in part because they know they can use the pick up any time.
I have a hard time justifying the cost of adding AC when it is only really hot in the daytime 2-3 weeks a year. Back in Austin, we would have been miserable without one. Used to be, very few here in CO had AC but either people have gotten used to being the perfect temperature at all times (even in the car) or it really has gotten a lot hotter. I suspect the first is the case. I enjoy hearing birdsong and breezes too much to close up the house.
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