View Full Version : Anyone start an RNC discussion thread yet?
Ultralight
7-18-16, 11:18am
My thoughts: Things are going to be zany, in and outside of the festivities.
iris lilies
7-18-16, 11:56am
I would lke to instigate a No Radio Policy in this house for the next few days, but DH wont go,for that.
OTOH I do find Rush Limbaugh's commentary on GOP actions and events useful, so maybe I will have a Rush Only radio week.
To the extent I can, I'm ignoring both conventions this year for more uplifting material. Slasher films maybe.
Ultralight
7-18-16, 11:59am
...Rush Only radio week.
Ah! The stuff of nightmares! ;)
Ultralight
7-18-16, 12:00pm
Right now, somewhere, someone is trying to summon the spirit of Abbie Hoffman.
iris lilies
7-18-16, 12:02pm
Ah! The stuff of nightmares! ;)
I cant stand the idea of hearng NPR analyze the GOP convention. I wish they would just be completely silent on it. Yeah, thats the ticket.
On NPR this a.m. commentator Tucker Carlson said this is reminiscent of 1968: unpopular war overseas, racial unrest at home, and a law-and-order candidate. Ready or not, here we go..
Ultralight
7-18-16, 12:05pm
...I will have a Rush Only radio week.
I would say this qualifies as a simple living oriented solution. Bravo! We are on topic!
Ultralight
7-18-16, 12:05pm
On NPR this a.m. commentator Tucker Carlson said this is reminiscent of 1968: unpopular war overseas, racial unrest at home, and a law-and-order candidate. Ready or not, here we go..
Yippies?
On NPR this a.m. commentator Tucker Carlson said this is reminiscent of 1968: unpopular war overseas, racial unrest at home, and a law-and-order candidate. Ready or not, here we go..
With all due respect for NPR looking to appeal to their aging demographic's 60's nostalgia:
Afghanistan isn't Vietnam.
Black Lives Matter aren't the Black Panther Party.
Donald Trump isn't Richard Nixon.
Tucker Carlson is a conservative who is on Fox News. He was on with Cokie Roberts, so Tucker's opinion was not NPR's.
I'm pretty sick of all the news.........especially living in Indiana, where the news is all excited about "our" governor being chosen for Trump's VP.........asshole that he is. (Pence, that is. Oh.......and Trump too.) :~) Pence has made some horrible choices.......
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
Tucker Carlson is a conservative who is on Fox News. He was on with Cokie Roberts, so Tucker's opinion was not NPR's.
Still a big batch of NPR portentousness. I've been hearing more of the same on other shows locally, and we can probably expect more.
I'm pretty sick of all the news.........especially living in Indiana, where the news is all excited about "our" governor being chosen for Trump's VP.........asshole that he is. (Pence, that is. Oh.......and Trump too.) :~) Pence has made some horrible choices.......
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
Although concealed carry law wasn't stopped for the mobs outside the castle, I think it was for the convention itself. Something to do with insuring the safety of the people attending.
Ultralight
7-18-16, 12:40pm
Wow...
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
Should anyone have the ability to nullify a law just for the hell of it?
I find it interesting how gleeful my local progressive community is at the thought of potential open-carry/concealed-carry problems at the convention. It's almost like they can't wait for the blood to flow. It's usually one of the first "thoughts" out of their mouths at conversation.
Should anyone have the ability to nullify a law just for the hell of it?
Well, it just seems like we should have a little flexibility at reasonable times......considering the use of guns these days, and the numbers of atrocities that have happened.
Well, it just seems like we should have a little flexibility at reasonable times......considering the use of guns these days, and the numbers of atrocities that have happened.
Q: Historically, how many Republican conventions have been held in open-carry states over the last, say, 50 years?
Q: What do the violent crime statistics look like, over the that time period?
Q: Do we have rule of law? Or do we interpret laws day-to-day based on our feelings and whatever social media trends are sweeping the infosphere?
Ultralight
7-18-16, 1:16pm
So what is the deal here?
People are allow to pack outside by not inside?
So what is the deal here?
People are allow to pack outside by not inside?
You could probably Google that.
You could probably Google that.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/republican-national-convention-open-carry
Firearms will be banned within the Secret Serviceprotected Quicken Loans Arena, but guns will be permitted everywhere else at the site in accordance with Ohio state laws that prevent cities from imposing stricter gun-control laws, NPR reports. While canned goods and tennis balls are among the items banned by the R.N.C., the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms will not be abridged in the protest zones surrounding the convention floor.
Ultralight
7-18-16, 1:38pm
Seems odd that they would ban them anywhere. I thought they always want more and more good guys packing.
Seems odd that they would ban them anywhere. I thought they always want more and more good guys packing.
I Believe it was the mayor of Cleveland who asked for this since he has to keep order. And he'll probably get a lot of flack if anything happens.
Seems odd that they would ban them anywhere. I thought they always want more and more good guys packing.
It's interesting - it looks like the only thing you are allowed to bring into the area that could possibly be used to arm and defend yourself is a gun - and a gun is about the only thing that cannot be defined as a safety issue or danger to others:
http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.685951.1464312271!/menu/standard/file/RNC%20protest%20restrictions.pdf
) Within all Public Access Areas, the following items are prohibited
during the Convention Period:
(1) Lumber larger than 2” in width and Ό” thick, including supports
for signs;
(2) Metal, plastic, or other hard material larger than Ύ” thick and
1/8” in wall thickness including pipe and tubing;
(3) Any air rifle, air pistol, paintball gun, blasting caps, switchblade
or automatic knife, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in
length or longer, cestus, billy, blackjack, sword, saber, hatchet, axe, slingshot,
BB gun, pellet gun, wrist shot, blackjack, metal knuckles, nun chucks, mace,
iron buckle, axe handle, shovel, or other instrumentality used to cause
property or personal damage;
(4) Any dangerous ordinance, weapon, or firearm that is prohibited
by the laws of the State of Ohio;
(5) Any explosives, explosive device, or incendiary device;
(6) Fireworks and rockets;
(7) Sound Amplification Equipment;
(8) Drones and other unmanned aircraft systems;
(9) Containers of bodily fluids;
(10) Aerosol cans;
(11) Mace, Pepper Spray or other chemical irritant;
(12) Umbrellas with metal tips;
(13) Any projectile launchers, such as water guns and water cannons;
(14) Rope, chain, cable, strapping, wire, string, line, tape, or any
similar material, in lengths greater than 6’;
(15) Glass bottles, ornaments, light bulbs, ceramic vessels, and any
other frangible container, regardless of whether the container holds any
substance;
(16) Locks including, without limitation, padlocks, bicycle locking
devices, chain locks or similar devices, but not including: (i) an integral
component of a conveyance or structure; (ii) locks when utilized by the owner
of private real property to secure permanent or temporary fencing; or (iii)
locks attached to a bicycle;
(17) Any gas mask or similar device designed to filter all air breathed
by the wearer in an attempt to protect the respiratory tract and/or face
against irritating or noxious gasses or other materials. This prohibition on
gas masks shall not apply to any person wearing a medical oxygen mask that
fits over the nose and mouth of the person and provides oxygen from an
oxygen tank to the person;
(18) Tents and other shelters, sleeping bags, sleeping pads,
mattresses, cots, hammocks, bivy sacks, or stoves;
(19) Coolers or ice chests;
(20) Backpacks and bags exceeding the size of 18” x 13” x 7”;
(21) Lasers;
(22) Non-plastic containers, bottles, cans, or thermoses;
(23) Ladders;
(24) Grappling hooks, sledgehammers, hammers, and crowbars;
(25) Canned goods;
(26) Tennis balls; and
(27) Any other item determined by the Chief or Director to be a clear
and present danger to the safety of others.
It's interesting - it looks like the only thing you are allowed to bring into the area that could possibly be used to arm and defend yourself is a gun - and a gun is about the only thing that cannot be defined as a safety issue or danger to others:
http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.685951.1464312271!/menu/standard/file/RNC%20protest%20restrictions.pdf
) Within all Public Access Areas, the following items are prohibited
during the Convention Period:
(1) Lumber larger than 2 in width and Ό thick, including supports
for signs;
(2) Metal, plastic, or other hard material larger than Ύ thick and
1/8 in wall thickness including pipe and tubing;
(3) Any air rifle, air pistol, paintball gun, blasting caps, switchblade
or automatic knife, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in
length or longer, cestus, billy, blackjack, sword, saber, hatchet, axe, slingshot,
BB gun, pellet gun, wrist shot, blackjack, metal knuckles, nun chucks, mace,
iron buckle, axe handle, shovel, or other instrumentality used to cause
property or personal damage;
(4) Any dangerous ordinance, weapon, or firearm that is prohibited
by the laws of the State of Ohio;
(5) Any explosives, explosive device, or incendiary device;
(6) Fireworks and rockets;
(7) Sound Amplification Equipment;
(8) Drones and other unmanned aircraft systems;
(9) Containers of bodily fluids;
(10) Aerosol cans;
(11) Mace, Pepper Spray or other chemical irritant;
(12) Umbrellas with metal tips;
(13) Any projectile launchers, such as water guns and water cannons;
(14) Rope, chain, cable, strapping, wire, string, line, tape, or any
similar material, in lengths greater than 6;
(15) Glass bottles, ornaments, light bulbs, ceramic vessels, and any
other frangible container, regardless of whether the container holds any
substance;
(16) Locks including, without limitation, padlocks, bicycle locking
devices, chain locks or similar devices, but not including: (i) an integral
component of a conveyance or structure; (ii) locks when utilized by the owner
of private real property to secure permanent or temporary fencing; or (iii)
locks attached to a bicycle;
(17) Any gas mask or similar device designed to filter all air breathed
by the wearer in an attempt to protect the respiratory tract and/or face
against irritating or noxious gasses or other materials. This prohibition on
gas masks shall not apply to any person wearing a medical oxygen mask that
fits over the nose and mouth of the person and provides oxygen from an
oxygen tank to the person;
(18) Tents and other shelters, sleeping bags, sleeping pads,
mattresses, cots, hammocks, bivy sacks, or stoves;
(19) Coolers or ice chests;
(20) Backpacks and bags exceeding the size of 18 x 13 x 7;
(21) Lasers;
(22) Non-plastic containers, bottles, cans, or thermoses;
(23) Ladders;
(24) Grappling hooks, sledgehammers, hammers, and crowbars;
(25) Canned goods;
(26) Tennis balls; and
(27) Any other item determined by the Chief or Director to be a clear
and present danger to the safety of others.
I was wondering how you would "arm and defend yourself" with a ladder. But then I remembered seeing Jackie Chan do it pretty effectively.
Q: Historically, how many Republican conventions have been held in open-carry states over the last, say, 50 years?
Q: What do the violent crime statistics look like, over the that time period?
Q: Do we have rule of law? Or do we interpret laws day-to-day based on our feelings and whatever social media trends are sweeping the infosphere?
I'm sure there are many more gun owners now. What I have trouble with is that the second amendment is soooo out of context now.
We could probably destroy our nation with most everyone being shot, and gun owners would still refuse to say there's a problem....and cite the 2nd amendment.
And I don't think the media made up all the shootings we're hearing about today. I just don't understand some of you. You're so utterly inflexible to do anything however small, for the good of the whole.
Bae.........you're the one who eats his raisin bran with his gun next to the bowl. Really?
This world has gotten just too crazy. Why stick to a part of the constitution that is adding to such grief in this country? Why not change the constitution, if it would lead to a better society?
Bae.........you're the one who eats his raisin bran with his gun next to the bowl. Really?
Nope.
I don't eat raisin bran for breakfast.
And I keep my gun in a holster, not sitting on the table.
I forgot........you eat nails.
I forgot........you eat nails.
Pretty sure you're out of line there.
flowerseverywhere
7-18-16, 3:02pm
I'm pretty sick of all the news.........especially living in Indiana, where the news is all excited about "our" governor being chosen for Trump's VP.........asshole that he is. (Pence, that is. Oh.......and Trump too.) :~) Pence has made some horrible choices.......
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
no it would not be funny at all. It is never funny when people are subject to attempted murder or murder because they believe in a different God than you do, have a different color skin, have different political beliefs or work in a job you dislike. Regardless of my personal political beliefs I hope that both conventions do not result in any more violence and the candidate that is legally elected becomes our next president, whether or not I like them.
no it would not be funny at all. It is never funny when people are subject to attempted murder or murder because they believe in a different God than you do, have a different color skin, have different political beliefs or work in a job you dislike. Regardless of my personal political beliefs I hope that both conventions do not result in any more violence and the candidate that is legally elected becomes our next president, whether or not I like them.
I didn't mean funny - haha.........I meant more of "You live by the sword, you die by the sword". Of course it would never be funny. But Republicans are totally inflexible about any kind of any gun legislation. So......
We all have choices in this life, and we have to be responsible for those choices, and also see their potential consequences........to the society.
iris lilies
7-18-16, 4:41pm
I'm sure there are many more gun owners now. What I have trouble with is that the second amendment is soooo out of context now.
We could probably destroy our nation with most everyone being shot, and gun owners would still refuse to say there's a problem....and cite the 2nd amendment.
And I don't think the media made up all the shootings we're hearing about today. I just don't understand some of you. You're so utterly inflexible to do anything however small, for the good of the whole.
Bae.........you're the one who eats his raisin bran with his gun next to the bowl. Really?
This world has gotten just too crazy. Why stick to a part of the constitution that is adding to such grief in this country? Why not change the constitution, if it would lead to a better society?
You are free to change the constitution, go for it. Until you do, your opinion that the 2nd amendment as written is not useful in today's society is just your opinion.
And giving up more gun rights is not a "small" thing. You are not interested in recognizing that bigger picture and that is fine, that continues to be your opinion. There are plenty of well reasoned arguments that go against yours.
Ultralight
7-18-16, 4:55pm
Pretty sure you're out of line there.
Are you sure she is not just saying you're tough?
Ultralight
7-18-16, 4:56pm
Again, I don't understand why the GOP would ban guns anywhere in the festivities.
Again, I don't understand why the GOP would ban guns anywhere in the festivities.
Did the GOP have a choice to ban or not? I would think most states that have open or concealed carry laws permit private facilities to ban guns on their premises. I would also suspect few big venues would permit firearms (or various other items, such as glass bottles) to either limit their liability exposure or for marketing reasons.
Again, I don't understand why the GOP would ban guns anywhere in the festivities.
......because they know Karma can be a bitch? :~)
Ultralight
7-18-16, 5:45pm
I find it interesting how gleeful my local progressive community is at the thought of potential open-carry/concealed-carry problems at the convention. It's almost like they can't wait for the blood to flow. It's usually one of the first "thoughts" out of their mouths at conversation.
I you sure you are reading them right? This sounds a bit over the top.
Well, it just seems like we should have a little flexibility at reasonable times......considering the use of guns these days, and the numbers of atrocities that have happened.So, would you be in favor of someone like myself being able to nullify your individual rights such as due process, protection against unreasonable search & seizure or the right not to incriminate yourself? Should you be flexible on these points if I think it's reasonable?
iris lilies
7-18-16, 8:05pm
Did the GOP have a choice to ban or not? I would think most states that have open or concealed carry laws permit private facilities to ban guns on their premises. I would also suspect few big venues would permit firearms (or various other items, such as glass bottles) to either limit their liability exposure or for marketing reasons.
I wndered too if the weapns ban was the policy d the facility.
It's interesting - it looks like the only thing you are allowed to bring into the area that could possibly be used to arm and defend yourself is a gun - and a gun is about the only thing that cannot be defined as a safety issue or danger to others:
http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.685951.1464312271!/menu/standard/file/RNC%20protest%20restrictions.pdf
) Within all Public Access Areas, the following items are prohibited
during the Convention Period:
(1) Lumber larger than 2 in width and Ό thick, including supports
for signs;
(2) Metal, plastic, or other hard material larger than Ύ thick and
1/8 in wall thickness including pipe and tubing;
(3) Any air rifle, air pistol, paintball gun, blasting caps, switchblade
or automatic knife, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in
length or longer, cestus, billy, blackjack, sword, saber, hatchet, axe, slingshot,
BB gun, pellet gun, wrist shot, blackjack, metal knuckles, nun chucks, mace,
iron buckle, axe handle, shovel, or other instrumentality used to cause
property or personal damage;
(4) Any dangerous ordinance, weapon, or firearm that is prohibited
by the laws of the State of Ohio;
(5) Any explosives, explosive device, or incendiary device;
(6) Fireworks and rockets;
(7) Sound Amplification Equipment;
(8) Drones and other unmanned aircraft systems;
(9) Containers of bodily fluids;
(10) Aerosol cans;
(11) Mace, Pepper Spray or other chemical irritant;
(12) Umbrellas with metal tips;
(13) Any projectile launchers, such as water guns and water cannons;
(14) Rope, chain, cable, strapping, wire, string, line, tape, or any
similar material, in lengths greater than 6;
(15) Glass bottles, ornaments, light bulbs, ceramic vessels, and any
other frangible container, regardless of whether the container holds any
substance;
(16) Locks including, without limitation, padlocks, bicycle locking
devices, chain locks or similar devices, but not including: (i) an integral
component of a conveyance or structure; (ii) locks when utilized by the owner
of private real property to secure permanent or temporary fencing; or (iii)
locks attached to a bicycle;
(17) Any gas mask or similar device designed to filter all air breathed
by the wearer in an attempt to protect the respiratory tract and/or face
against irritating or noxious gasses or other materials. This prohibition on
gas masks shall not apply to any person wearing a medical oxygen mask that
fits over the nose and mouth of the person and provides oxygen from an
oxygen tank to the person;
(18) Tents and other shelters, sleeping bags, sleeping pads,
mattresses, cots, hammocks, bivy sacks, or stoves;
(19) Coolers or ice chests;
(20) Backpacks and bags exceeding the size of 18 x 13 x 7;
(21) Lasers;
(22) Non-plastic containers, bottles, cans, or thermoses;
(23) Ladders;
(24) Grappling hooks, sledgehammers, hammers, and crowbars;
(25) Canned goods;
(26) Tennis balls; and
(27) Any other item determined by the Chief or Director to be a clear
and present danger to the safety of others.
I'm curious why tennis balls made the list. It would seem like baseballs could do a lot more damage as thrown projectiles, and that any balls, in sufficient quantity, could hamper a law enforcement crackdown by tripping up the police.
Still a big batch of NPR portentousness. I've been hearing more of the same on other shows locally, and we can probably expect more.
I believe NPR was trying to be "fair and balanced." But if you think Carlson and his opinions are portentous, I agree.
Is anyone watching it on TV? Melania will be the key speaker.. Trump will introduce her.
Then there were the dissenters on the floor.
Compelling stuff...
Is anyone watching it on TV? Melania will be the key speaker.. .
No. But if any tennis balls start flying I'm sure we'll see it on the news!
Let me know if the mighty Cuyahoga catches on fire again. That's something worth seeing!
catherine
7-18-16, 10:16pm
Let me know if the mighty Cuyahoga catches on fire again. That's something worth seeing!
True, but the RNC is still great theatre.. as long as I can keep my blood pressure under control.
catherine
7-18-16, 10:42pm
You guys have to check out Donald Trump's entrance. All I can say is, Freddy Mercury is rolling over in his grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_v1FwosV_U
No. But if any tennis balls start flying I'm sure we'll see it on the news!
I hope they aren't going to start restricting tennis balls in carryon luggage. I could be wrong but I really don't think Serena Williams is a terrorist...
You guys have to check out Donald Trump's entrance. All I can say is, Freddy Mercury is rolling over in his grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_v1FwosV_U
OMG... My one question would be whether they purchased the rights to the song or are they going to be one of the many republican campaigns that gets nailed for copyright infringement after using a song that the writer (or estate thereof in this case) didn't want being used in said campaign.
Is anyone watching it on TV? Melania will be the key speaker.. Trump will introduce her.
Then there were the dissenters on the floor.
Compelling stuff...
Quite a marketing event. Melania's speech was OK and I'm sure she had no knowledge of any plagiarism, although I doubt that she actually wrote much of it. Donald's entrance was pretty darned interesting. It will be hard to top when he actually speaks. The whole theme was make America safe again, and I found little of it inspiring or deviating from the Trumpisms we've already seen. I may watch some more of it for educational purposes, but had to switch to 2 Broke Girls for better entertainment. Our Colorado delegates walked out in protest.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 7:22am
No problems in the streets either. Perhaps it will all be mellow outside and just silly and showy inside.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 7:46am
A GOP Congressman Just Made An Argument For White Supremacy On Live TV
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-king-white-people-western-civilization_us_578d5f34e4b0a0ae97c320ed?section=
A GOP Congressman Just Made An Argument For White Supremacy On Live TV
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-king-white-people-western-civilization_us_578d5f34e4b0a0ae97c320ed?section=
Making America America again ?!
I believe NPR was trying to be "fair and balanced." But if you think Carlson and his opinions are portentous, I agree.
You'll get no argument from me that Carlson is hardly the best representation of conservative thinking. That's why NPR uses him. The roster of "conservative viewpoints" they're willing to tolerate is pretty small. Carlson, David Brooks (also the New York Times idea of what a conservative should be) and the terminally pompous George Will. The days when someone like William F. Buckley could appear regularly in Public Broadcasting are long gone.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 8:47am
Making America America again ?!
Sad-lol
What he said was rather shocking...
Ultralight
7-19-16, 8:48am
You'll get no argument from me that Carlson is hardly the best representation of conservative thinking. That's why NPR uses him. The roster of "conservative viewpoints" they're willing to tolerate is pretty small. Carlson, David Brooks (also the New York Times idea of what a conservative should be) and the terminally pompous George Will. The days when someone like William F. Buckley could appear regularly in Public Broadcasting are long gone.
All the conservative pundits should turn down public broadcasting gigs on principle!
A GOP Congressman Just Made An Argument For White Supremacy On Live TV
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-king-white-people-western-civilization_us_578d5f34e4b0a0ae97c320ed?section=
Is speaking approvingly, even proudly, about Western Civilization just dog-whistle racism now?
Ultralight
7-19-16, 8:56am
Is speaking approvingly, even proudly, about Western Civilization just dog-whistle racism now?
Did you listen to the whole thing?
All the conservative pundits should turn down public broadcasting gigs on principle!
I don't think being offered air time is much of an issue. I think it's more a question of the gatekeepers being worried about someone shocking the sensibilities of their audience by implying that Western civilization is not the source of all evil in the modern world.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 9:03am
Dude: "sub-groups."
I mean... seriously.
Did you listen to the whole thing?
Mostly, it seemed to be the MSNBC guardians of truth blathering about "angry white people", and being shocked to hear someone who didn't share their ideology.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 9:08am
Less "shocked" and more "appalled" and/or "offended"...
And not so much about difference in ideology but by purposeful ignorance.
Mostly, it seemed to be the MSNBC guardians of truth blathering about "angry white people", and being shocked to hear someone who didn't share their ideology.
That was my take-away as well. Dividing people into groups and sub-groups seems to be very popular with progressives, maybe they think they own it.
Less "shocked" and more "appalled" and/or "offended"...
I think that's a virtue-signaling method on the left. Unless you're "appalled" or "offended" or better yet "terrified" by a contrary opinion, how can you be sure of your moral supremacy?
Ultralight
7-19-16, 9:30am
Do you find any opinions appalling?
iris lilies
7-19-16, 9:40am
Do you find any opinions appalling?
What is the practical use of signaling that one is apalled? What doesvthat accomplish?
Do you find any opinions appalling?
I find some actions appalling. For mere opinion, I have real trouble whipping myself up into a lather.
I do get a little emotional about the designated hitter rule sometimes, though. If you want to play the game, you should swing your own bat.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 9:48am
From opinions often come actions.
So, would you be in favor of someone like myself being able to nullify your individual rights such as due process, protection against unreasonable search & seizure or the right not to incriminate yourself? Should you be flexible on these points if I think it's reasonable?
Alan......I understand what you're saying, but my rights don't kill people so easily. I know the constitution is written in stone supposedly, but when should a society think about changing it, in order to get a handle on the violence? I mostly likely trust you and a couple of the others on this forum who own guns, and I wouldn't want to take your rights away. But there are so many bad people out there who are abusing the right. Can't we figure out a way to be just a little flexible in order to strive to work towards a less violent nation?
Alan......I understand what you're saying, but my rights don't kill people so easily. I know the constitution is written in stone supposedly, but when should a society think about changing it, in order to get a handle on the violence? I mostly likely trust you and a couple of the others on this forum who own guns, and I wouldn't want to take your rights away. But there are so many bad people out there who are abusing the right. Can't we figure out a way to be just a little flexible in order to strive to work towards a less violent nation?Yes, we should encourage people not to be violent. A good starting point might be to blame the actor rather than blame the tool.
Yes, we should encourage people not to be violent. A good starting point might be to blame the actor rather than blame the tool.
But there have become so many actors with the tools!
Is speaking approvingly, even proudly, about Western Civilization just dog-whistle racism now?
That's the thing about dog whistles. They contain enough plausible deniability that someone can come here and either with a straight face or feigning a straight face deny the racism and all I can do is be baffled at how it was missed because it's entirely possible that the straight face is legitimate.
For me, the part that turned it into dog whistle was the point that western civilization and christianity were called out to be noted as specifically better than everything else.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 10:34am
For me, the part that turned it into dog whistle was the point that western civilization and christianity were called out to be noted as specifically better than everything else.
How dare you question these two things!? ;)
From opinions often come actions.
I consider actions to be a more reliable and simpler benchmark for practical purposes. For instance, I think it easier to treat something as a crime based on the act committed rather than the motivation. Murder is murder, and labeling it as a "hate crime" doesn't add or detract anything from it's impact. Punishing people for "wrong thinking", as with certain university speech codes for instance, strikes me as a shortcut to tyranny (even if it's a well-intentioned, sensitive tyranny).
For me, the part that turned it into dog whistle was the point that western civilization and christianity were called out to be noted as specifically better than everything else.
Would you be equally troubled by someone claiming that Danish society is superior for any number of reasons to American society? Or would that be dog-whistling Danish chauvinism?
Would you be equally troubled by someone claiming that Danish society is superior for any number of reasons to American society? Or would that be dog-whistling Danish chauvinism?
If Danish society had long been and was still currently the dominant society in the world, yes.
If Danish society had long been and was still currently the dominant society in the world, yes.
So you would view geopolitical dominance as a disqualifier for a society or culture claiming superiority without signaling crypto-racism? Similar claims by a Zulu or Japanese would be acceptable?
Ultralight
7-19-16, 2:25pm
After night one of the RNC I heard a pundit call the GOP "the party of lost causes."
In many ways, this seems like a near perfect descriptor, does it not?
After night one of the RNC I heard a pundit call the GOP "the party of lost causes."
In many ways, this seems like a near perfect descriptor, does it not?
I prefer the more upbeat "party of squandered opportunities".
Ultralight
7-19-16, 2:32pm
I prefer the more upbeat "party of squandered opportunities".
:doh:
That is certainly more upbeat. haha
Do you really feel like the GOP squandered opportunities? Which ones?
Part of my feels like the GOP did not have many...
How do you all feel about the potential first Lady's speech? Have you seen it side-by-side with Michelle Obama's speech in 2008? Pretty curious.
iris lilies
7-19-16, 2:47pm
Time for a speech writer to lose his job.sloppy.
I havent seen the two side by side, but I assume someone plagerized, probably unintentionally, but he still has to go.
In the big picture it is of no consequence but that wont stop the media from blabbering on about it.
Might be interesting to compare the moral character of Hillary's spouse with Trump's...
Ultralight
7-19-16, 3:03pm
Might be interesting to compare the moral character of Hillary's spouse with Trump's...
Don't go talking trash about the Big Dog! haha
How do you all feel about the potential first Lady's speech? Have you seen it side-by-side with Michelle Obama's speech in 2008? Pretty curious.
Both speeches were probably written by professional speech writers and I suspect especially Melania's, and probably Michelle's were rehearsed and coached about pauses, inflections, and style. They are both nice talks, but really did not say a lot and may not represent true feelings and intentions. They are planned candidate marketing and don't say much about the person. It would be more interesting to hear her talk extemporaneously or in a question and answer situation. Whether the two speeches are similar or plagiarized doesn't seem to matter.
Ultralight
7-19-16, 3:20pm
The first lady hopefuls for the next century could probably just say the same speech over and over anyway.
But there have become so many actors with the tools!
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/guns31.png
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/guns4.jpg
Ultralight
7-19-16, 3:44pm
Explain in a sound byte please.
How do you all feel about the potential first Lady's speech? Have you seen it side-by-side with Michelle Obama's speech in 2008? Pretty curious.
All the news outlets are rushing out histories of political plagiarism today (Obama, Biden, Harper, etc.). It's almost like they all had something in the can, and were waiting for the next incident to use it. I'm not terribly shocked. The ancient bards routinely cut and pasted new names into their best stuff to serve the market for epic grandiosity. Why should the teleprompter panegyrists of today be any different?
How do you all feel about the potential first Lady's speech? Have you seen it side-by-side with Michelle Obama's speech in 2008? Pretty curious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M6x1H08aFc
:doh:
That is certainly more upbeat. haha
Do you really feel like the GOP squandered opportunities? Which ones?
Part of my feels like the GOP did not have many...
Had the party got it's act together earlier to make sure we nominated a candidate who remotely resembled a Republican and didn't strive for universal offensiveness and vulgarity, I have to believe we could feel much more optimistic about defeating a Democrat who isn't even that well-trusted (and often despised) by other Democrats.
"of all the words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: 'Make America great again.'"
Ultralight
7-19-16, 8:49pm
Are you all watching this stuff?!
No, It has lost all sense of reality to me. So may big important issues yet Ms. Trump's speech has been the headlines.
I am scared how this will all turn out in November........
Ultralight
7-20-16, 7:24am
I am scared how this will all turn out in November........
It'll be business as usual.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 7:51am
You all are going to looooooove this!
The Response to Melania Trump's Plagiarism Is an Example of White Privilege
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/news/a61559/melania-trump-michelle-obama-plagiarism/
iris lilies
7-20-16, 8:33am
You all are going to looooooove this!
The Response to Melania Trump's Plagiarism Is an Example of White Privilege
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/news/a61559/melania-trump-michelle-obama-plagiarism/
You are right, this author's assertion that this is just another example of a black woman doing all of the work for a white woman is stupid and entertaining in its stupidity. But it is just Cosmo.
I found it to be an excellent, clear response.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 8:47am
You are right, this author's assertion that this is just another example of a black woman doing all of the work for a white woman is stupid and entertaining in its stupidity. But it is just Cosmo.
I was right that white privilege deniers would loooooooooove the article!
I was right that white privilege deniers would loooooooooove the article!I think you have that wrong. Your so called white privilege deniers aren't hung up on race. It's the folks who reject MLK's dream of being judged by the content of character rather than skin color that get excited about these things.
catherine
7-20-16, 10:06am
MLK's dream of being judged by the content of character rather than skin color.
Too bad it's still very much a dream.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 10:15am
Too bad it's still very much a dream.
Apparently the dream came true for republicans. Liberals though, not so much...
Apparently the dream came true for republicans. Liberals though, not so much...Liberals could be color blind, if they wanted.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 11:16am
Liberals could be color blind, if they wanted.
Tell me more.
iris lilies
7-20-16, 11:30am
Against my better judgement and in opposition to what I said I would do, I turned on NPR yesterday for a few minutes for one of the news shows. The commentators were focused on the subject of immigration. A correspondent from the Republican Party convention earnestly explained to the NPR audence that Republicans draw a distinction between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. Because, you know, that is such a foreign concept, illegal vs. legal immigration status. That needs explaining!
They also carefully explained that Melania Trump came into this country legally, the implication being "no those Republicans are not hypocrites, now let's all be fair here."
I could hardly turn it off fast enough.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 11:42am
I don't think it matters much if someone is an illegal or legal immigrant.
Tell me more.
It's simple. You could stop putting people into racial boxes if you wanted.
If you want to discuss it further, tell me why you do not.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 11:44am
It's simple. You could stop putting people into racial boxes if you wanted.
If you want to discuss it further, tell me why you do not.
Are you "color blind" when it comes to race?
Are you "color blind" when it comes to race?
I'm a content of character kinda guy.
Now, no more questions until you answer one.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 11:51am
I am also a content of character kinda guy.
You, Alan, may very well be completely and totally not racist. That is possible.
But that does not mean that everyone else is. That also does not mean that white privilege is not real.
Called it. Maybe he'll make America great again by doing away with copyright law too.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/queens-brian-may-denies-donald-trump-usage-of-we-are-the-champions-20160608
iris lilies
7-20-16, 11:59am
I don't think it matters much if someone is an illegal or legal immigrant.
ok! So you do not respect the rule of law in handlng immigration.
do you think, then, that all comers to our borders should just walk in?
why cant I just walk into Canada and stay? canucks are hard nosed about that too. Why so?
Lets carry your idea further: why dont you open up your apartment to house a few immigrants, along with their dogs? Harlan surely has no respect for the rule of law, being a dog. He would be happy to have a pack of dogs hangng out all day with him. Get bunkbeds, you could sleep another 2-3 men in your place. You should do it. Why ever not?
Ultralight
7-20-16, 11:59am
Called it. Maybe he'll make America great again by doing away with copyright law too.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/queens-brian-may-denies-donald-trump-usage-of-we-are-the-champions-20160608
Republicans just have no respect for the rule of law!
I am also a content of character kinda guy.
No you're not. You're obsessed with skin color.
You've told us that you prefer to date women of color and never told us that you like to date women of character. You apply race to virtually every subject, such as your recent declaration that simple living is a white thing and you keep us advised of the racial makeup of the various groups you're involved with to make you feel better about yourself.
You're not completely unaware of your fixation are you?
iris lilies
7-20-16, 12:01pm
Called it. Maybe he'll make America great again by doing away with copyright law too.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/queens-brian-may-denies-donald-trump-usage-of-we-are-the-champions-20160608
You did call it.
Did the limited number of bars played actually violate copyright law? I dont know, but it may have been within the allowed limit.
How does copyright law work as applied to songs? Is there some kind of clearinghouse system political campaigns, cover bands, radio stations, etc. use to pay royalties to the holder? It's hard to believe that each individual use is subject to a separate negotiation.
I've heard before about cases of artists objecting to campaigns using their material, but can't recall a case where one obtained some kind of legal remedy against it's use by somebody they didn't like. As long as they pay the same fee as anyone else, is the Trump campaign within their legal rights to tell Brian May to take a hike?
iris lilies
7-20-16, 12:24pm
How does copyright law work as applied to songs? Is there some kind of clearinghouse system political campaigns, cover bands, radio stations, etc. use to pay royalties to the holder? It's hard to believe that each individual use is subject to a separate negotiation.
I've heard before about cases of artists objecting to campaigns using their material, but can't recall a case where one obtained some kind of legal remedy against it's use by somebody they didn't like. As long as they pay the same fee as anyone else, is the Trump campaign within their legal rights to tell Brian May to take a hike?
yes, there are a couple of major brokers who handle song public performance rights.
It certainly is possible that the RNC paid the required fee.
See The Long History of Musicians Telling Republicans To Stop Playing Their Music (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-long-history-of-musicians-telling-republicans-to-stop-playing-their-music/):
A partial list:
Springsteen objected to Reagan’s use of the song “Born in the U.S.A.” during the 1984 election.
Reagan also got dinged in 1984 by John Cougar Mellencamp for “Pink Houses.”
Bobby McFerrin objected to George H.W. Bush using the song “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” in 1988.
Sam & Dave objected to Bob Dole using the song “Soul Man” in 1996.
Springsteen objected to Dole using “Born in the U.S.A.” in 1996.
Mellencamp didn’t grant any more leeway to George W. Bush than to Reagan. Mellencamp complained when Bush used “R.O.C.K. in the U.S.A.” in 2000.
Tom Petty objected to Bush using the song “I Won’t Back Down” in 2000.
That same election, Sting objected to Bush using “Brand New Day.”
In a rare bit of bipartisanship in 2000, Sting also objected to Al Gore using “Brand New Day.”
John Hall of the band Orleans objected to Bush using the song “Still the One” during his re-election campaign in 2004.
Boston objected to Mike Huckabee using “More Than a Feeling” in 2008.
Van Halen objected to John McCain using “Right Now” in 2008.
Mellencamp is back! He complained about McCain using “Our Country” in 2008.
In the same election, Mellencamp had a problem with McCain using the song “Pink Houses.”
Heart objected to McCain using “Barracuda.”
Jackson Browne objected to McCain using “Running on Empty.”
Bon Jovi objected to McCain using “Who Says You Can’t Go Home.”
The Foo Fighters stopped McCain from playing “My Hero.”
Tom Petty objected to McCain using “I Won’t Back Down.”
ABBA complained about McCain using “Take a Chance on Me.”
Sam Moore of Sam & Dave objected to Barack Obama using “Hold On, I’m Coming” during the 2008 election.
Survivor objected to Newt Gingrich using the song “Eye of the Tiger” in 2012.
Gingrich also was dinged by The Heavy for “How You Like Me Now.”
Also in 2012, Dee Snider of Twisted Sister objected to Mitt Romney using “We’re Not Gonna Take It.”
Silversun Pickups stopped Romney from playing “Panic Switch.”
K’Naan objected to Romney using the song “Wavin’ Flag.”
Survivor objected to Romney using “Eye of the Tiger.”
Tom Petty complained about Michele Bachmann using “American Girl” in 2012.
Katrina and the Waves objected to Bachmann playing “Walking on Sunshine.”
And finally, now we have Young’s complaint about Trump’s use of “Rockin’ in the Free World.”
Note that, according to my research, only twice have Democrats been asked to stop using a song.
does anyone except me find Tiffany Trump very strange? Beautiful mother and no expense spared for her upbringing. I found watching her speech unbearable.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 12:45pm
The whole GOP seems to be moving in the direction of "very strange."
Ultralight
7-20-16, 12:52pm
Quite an interesting read. I am not surprised by this delegate's assessment though.
One delegate's jaded impression of the Cleveland convention
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/288429-one-delegates-jaded-impression-of-the-cleveland
Quite an interesting read. I am not surprised by this delegate's assessment though.
One delegate's jaded impression of the Cleveland convention
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/288429-one-delegates-jaded-impression-of-the-cleveland
I have to say you seem to be digging pretty deep here.
The Donald's Freddy Mercury impression displays his contempt for the rule of law.
Mrs. the Donald's speechwriter pilfering from Mrs. Obama's speechwriter displays our culture's deep-seated prejudice.
The suspicious absence of weapons in the convention arena.
And now the unprecedented revelation that a delegate complains after losing a floor fight.
Clearly these outrages show our republic is confronting an existential threat.
iris lilies
7-20-16, 2:57pm
I'm pretty sick of all the news.........especially living in Indiana, where the news is all excited about "our" governor being chosen for Trump's VP.........asshole that he is. (Pence, that is. Oh.......and Trump too.) :~) Pence has made some horrible choices.......
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
I was right that white privilege deniers would loooooooooove the article!
what is "white privilege denier?"
i wont deny that there is racial prejudice against people of African descent worldwide. What that looks like in every instance and when it takes place are arguable points. Is this a position of "white privilege?"
Ultralight
7-20-16, 2:59pm
what is "white privilege denier?"
i wont deny that there is racial prejudice against people of African descent worldwide. What that looks like in every instance and when it takes place are arguable points. Is this a position of "white privilege?"
Google white privilege. You ought to know how to research this. I thought you were a librarian.
iris lilies
7-20-16, 3:29pm
I'm pretty sick of all the news.........especially living in Indiana, where the news is all excited about "our" governor being chosen for Trump's VP.........asshole that he is. (Pence, that is. Oh.......and Trump too.) :~) Pence has made some horrible choices.......
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
Google white privilege. You ought to know how to research this. I thought you were a librarian.
No, you used the term, I am engaging with you.
Am I a white privilege denier if I assert that there is racial prejudice worldwide against people of African descent?
Ultralight
7-20-16, 3:33pm
No, you used the term, I am engaging with you.
Am I a white privilege denier if I assert that there is racial prejudice worldwide against people of African descent?
You want a simple answer for a complex social/economic/cultural phenomenon?
You want a simple answer for a complex social/economic/cultural phenomenon?I think she'd just like to hear your description of a term you use to describe others. It seems to me to be a reasonable request for a person of good faith.
iris lilies
7-20-16, 4:05pm
You want a simple answer for a complex social/economic/cultural phenomenon?
You raised the issue.
so now, you arent willing to discuss it? Hmmmm.
If you would like to provide a complex response to a "complex [etc.] phenomenon" that is fine. I am not limiting your discourse on this topic.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 4:07pm
Let me finish some projects here at work. Then I will give you the answers you are so desperate for when I get home.
what is "white privilege denier?"
It's one of those drive-by click bait phrases.
Or a thought-terminating cliche.
Your pick.
About guns and violence (and Bae, your graphs).......Perhaps one might feel different when they live near constant homicides (whose numbers don't show people who survived them). How many gun homicides do you have on your island, Bae? I would bet maybe none. In the city next to us, last year there were 134. I believe that city had one of the highest homicide rates in 2015. When one hears of so much violence from guns, on a daily basis, one might feel different about the number of guns out there.
Then again, your answer might be "All the more reason to have one." :(
There has to be some compromise somewhere along the way..........
Ultralight
7-20-16, 4:57pm
About guns and violence (and Bae, your graphs).......Perhaps one might feel different when they live near constant homicides (whose numbers don't show people who survived them). How many gun homicides do you have on your island, Bae? I would bet maybe none. In the city next to use, last year there were 134. I believe that city had one of the highest homicide rates in 2015. When one hears of so much violence from guns, on a daily basis, one might feel different about the number of guns out there.
Then again, your answer might be "All the more reason to have one." :(
There has to be some compromise somewhere along the way..........
New gun rights video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-5V2ZbX4i4
Ultralight
7-20-16, 4:59pm
White privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country.
The biggest problem with white privilege is the invisibility it maintains to those who benefit from it most. The inability to recognize that many of the advantages whites hold are a direct result of the disadvantages of other people, contributes to the unwillingness of white people, even those who are not overtly racist, to recognize their part in maintaining and benefiting from white supremacy.
White privilege is about not having to worry about being followed in a department store while shopping. It's about thinking that your clothes, manner of speech, and behavior in general, are racially neutral, when, in fact, they are white. It's seeing your image on television daily and knowing that you're being represented. It's people assuming that you lead a constructive life free from crime and off welfare. It's about not having to assume your daily interactions with people have racial overtones.
White privilege is having the freedom and luxury to fight racism one day and ignore it the next. White privilege exists on an individual, cultural, and institutional level.
iris lilies
7-20-16, 7:11pm
About guns and violence (and Bae, your graphs).......Perhaps one might feel different when they live near constant homicides (whose numbers don't show people who survived them). How many gun homicides do you have on your island, Bae? I would bet maybe none. In the city next to us, last year there were 134. I believe that city had one of the highest homicide rates in 2015. When one hears of so much violence from guns, on a daily basis, one might feel different about the number of guns out there.
Then again, your answer might be "All the more reason to have one." :(
There has to be some compromise somewhere along the way..........
Oh please. I live in the midst of Murder City with multiple homicides in my zip code annually. Have you even had a murder within 3 miles of you within the past year?
I know without a doubt that gun control laws are flagrently ignored by the crimnal element. Why you think more laws will cause the unlawful to behave properly is beyond me. It is wrong to hamper law abiding citizens from protecting themselves.
If you have a specific regulation that you thnk will make a big difference to the death-by-gun problem, describe it. Otherwise, you are speaking in generalities that are not very useful.
White privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country.
The biggest problem with white privilege is the invisibility it maintains to those who benefit from it most. The inability to recognize that many of the advantages whites hold are a direct result of the disadvantages of other people, contributes to the unwillingness of white people, even those who are not overtly racist, to recognize their part in maintaining and benefiting from white supremacy.
White privilege is about not having to worry about being followed in a department store while shopping. It's about thinking that your clothes, manner of speech, and behavior in general, are racially neutral, when, in fact, they are white. It's seeing your image on television daily and knowing that you're being represented. It's people assuming that you lead a constructive life free from crime and off welfare. It's about not having to assume your daily interactions with people have racial overtones.
White privilege is having the freedom and luxury to fight racism one day and ignore it the next. White privilege exists on an individual, cultural, and institutional level.
Is white privilege universal? Does it exist in Canada, England or France?
Also, is the privilege implied really based upon skin color or might it simply be a reaction to local norms? I ask because I have a Caucasian niece who is a crackhead and affects ghetto speech patterns. Based upon your criteria, does she maintain a level of privilege simply by being white? I don't think so.
On the flip side, I work with a black Canadian. I can't refer to him as an African American because he is not American. According to your criteria, he walks, talks and presents himself as a typical Canadian adult and I would imagine he benefits from white privilege based upon your description. Would you agree?
Speaking of that, another co-worker is white and from South Africa. She recently became an American citizen and correctly refers to herself as an African American, which for some reason causes some of our more liberal co-workers no end of distress. This leads me to believe you guys stack the rules of race to benefit your twisted version of what you think racial division should be. I choose to disregard such nonsense so I guess you'd call me a white privilege denier. Now, if you'd like to change your outlook to one of economic or educational or class privilege I think we could easily agree, but your inability to look beyond race makes it difficult.
Is white privilege universal? Does it exist in Canada, England or France?
Also, is the privilege implied really based upon skin color or might it simply be a reaction to local norms? I ask because I have a Caucasian niece who is a crackhead who affects ghetto speech patterns. Based upon your criteria, does she maintain a level of privilege simply by being white? I don't think so.
On the flip side, I work with a black Canadian. I can't refer to him as an African American because he is not American. According to your criteria, he walks, talks and presents himself as a typical Canadian adult and I would imagine he benefits from white privilege based upon your description. Would you agree?
Speaking of that, another co-worker is white and from South Africa. She recently became an American citizen and refers to herself as an African American, which for some reason causes some of our more liberal co-workers no end of distress. This leads me to believe you guys stack the rules of race to benefit your twisted version of what you think racial division should be. I choose to disregard such nonsense so I guess you'd call me a white privilege denier.
It always falls apart when one tries to apply a group demographic to every individual. I suppose the concept of "responsible gun owner" should be chucked as something ludicrous since it doesn't always apply? "You guys" (who is "you guys"?) is the same thing as "white privilege" - they are a convenient way to tag a trait on anyone you decide to place in a group.
It's interesting you brought up someone from South Africa - I remember when her (depending on her age) "white privilege" was codified in law.
Of course if one paints it all in absolutes (from either side) it's going to sound stupid. But I expect my chances of having to interact with someone who would behave toward me in negatively racist fashion are much lower than someone of a different color or race. You can label that whatever you like but I think it's the truth.
Ultralight
7-20-16, 8:32pm
It always falls apart when one tries to apply a group demographic to every individual. I suppose the concept of "responsible gun owner" should be chucked as something ludicrous since it doesn't always apply? "You guys" (who is "you guys"?) is the same thing as "white privilege" - they are a convenient way to tag a trait on anyone you decide to place in a group.
It's interesting you brought up someone from South Africa - I remember when her (depending on her age) "white privilege" was codified in law.
Of course if one paints it all in absolutes (from either side) it's going to sound stupid. But I expect my chances of having to interact with someone who would behave toward me in negatively racist fashion are much lower than someone of a different color or race. You can label that whatever you like but I think it's the truth.
This is a smart response.
Now that Melania-gate has started to fade, I've been wishing in my political fantasy world that she would have started her speech by saying that given the events of recent weeks, it's more important to emphasize our commonalities as Americans instead of our differences as Republicans and Democrats. And that the values as expressed by Mrs. Obama including "that you treat people with dignity and respect even if you don't know them and even if you don't agree with them" are ones she also shares.
I believe, maybe naively, that by saying that it would have helped, even a little, in healing our fractured nation. I certainly would have had a lot of respect for her.
[QUOTE=UltraliteAngler;248082]White privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country.
The biggest problem with white privilege is the invisibility it maintains to those who benefit from it most.
Made me think of 2 recent quotes: - "I was an African-American before I was a police officer." meaning he brought that experience into his profession, and he will remain an African-American officer, instead of just an officer, to most of the people he interacts with. The "default" in this country is Caucasian, even though a state like Calif. now has the minorities as the new majority.
- also watching the issues with AirBnB and complaints of discrimination there were enough to get the attention of their leadership.
Now that Melania-gate has started to fade, I've been wishing in my political fantasy world that she would have started her speech by saying that given the events of recent weeks, it's more important to emphasize our commonalities as Americans instead of our differences as Republicans and Democrats. And that the values as expressed by Mrs. Obama including "that you treat people with dignity and respect even if you don't know them and even if you don't agree with them" are ones she also shares.
I believe, maybe naively, that by saying that it would have helped, even a little, in healing our fractured nation. I certainly would have had a lot of respect for her.
We'll never know since she didn't but considering that someone with a banner that said "No Racism. No Hate" was considered worthy of trying to be blocked and have the banner ripped out of her hands, I suspect that Melania would have gotten booed for expressing such sentiments.
It's interesting - it looks like the only thing you are allowed to bring into the area that could possibly be used to arm and defend yourself is a gun - and a gun is about the only thing that cannot be defined as a safety issue or danger to others:
http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.685951.1464312271!/menu/standard/file/RNC%20protest%20restrictions.pdf
) Within all Public Access Areas, the following items are prohibited
during the Convention Period:
(1) Lumber larger than 2 in width and Ό thick, including supports
for signs;
(2) Metal, plastic, or other hard material larger than Ύ thick and
1/8 in wall thickness including pipe and tubing;
(3) Any air rifle, air pistol, paintball gun, blasting caps, switchblade
or automatic knife, knife having a blade two and one-half (2-1/2) inches in
length or longer, cestus, billy, blackjack, sword, saber, hatchet, axe, slingshot,
BB gun, pellet gun, wrist shot, blackjack, metal knuckles, nun chucks, mace,
iron buckle, axe handle, shovel, or other instrumentality used to cause
property or personal damage;
(4) Any dangerous ordinance, weapon, or firearm that is prohibited
by the laws of the State of Ohio;
(5) Any explosives, explosive device, or incendiary device;
(6) Fireworks and rockets;
(7) Sound Amplification Equipment;
(8) Drones and other unmanned aircraft systems;
(9) Containers of bodily fluids;
(10) Aerosol cans;
(11) Mace, Pepper Spray or other chemical irritant;
(12) Umbrellas with metal tips;
(13) Any projectile launchers, such as water guns and water cannons;
(14) Rope, chain, cable, strapping, wire, string, line, tape, or any
similar material, in lengths greater than 6;
(15) Glass bottles, ornaments, light bulbs, ceramic vessels, and any
other frangible container, regardless of whether the container holds any
substance;
(16) Locks including, without limitation, padlocks, bicycle locking
devices, chain locks or similar devices, but not including: (i) an integral
component of a conveyance or structure; (ii) locks when utilized by the owner
of private real property to secure permanent or temporary fencing; or (iii)
locks attached to a bicycle;
(17) Any gas mask or similar device designed to filter all air breathed
by the wearer in an attempt to protect the respiratory tract and/or face
against irritating or noxious gasses or other materials. This prohibition on
gas masks shall not apply to any person wearing a medical oxygen mask that
fits over the nose and mouth of the person and provides oxygen from an
oxygen tank to the person;
(18) Tents and other shelters, sleeping bags, sleeping pads,
mattresses, cots, hammocks, bivy sacks, or stoves;
(19) Coolers or ice chests;
(20) Backpacks and bags exceeding the size of 18 x 13 x 7;
(21) Lasers;
(22) Non-plastic containers, bottles, cans, or thermoses;
(23) Ladders;
(24) Grappling hooks, sledgehammers, hammers, and crowbars;
(25) Canned goods;
(26) Tennis balls; and
(27) Any other item determined by the Chief or Director to be a clear
and present danger to the safety of others.
In case anyone was wondering I heard on NPR today why tennis balls are prohibited. Apparently it's a fear that they will have been turned into tennis bombs.
Ultralight
7-21-16, 8:39am
Hey, that speech by Lyin' Ted was pure Ted! He was in fine form, for sure! LOL
Hey, that speech by Lyin' Ted was pure Ted! He was in fine form, for sure! LOL
I haven't watched any of the convention. That would have required a morphine drip. But I did hear some of the highlights. I will be interested to see if his "vote your conscience" stand will turn out to be very bad or very good for his political future.
Ultralight
7-21-16, 8:58am
I haven't watched any of the convention. That would have required a morphine drip. But I did hear some of the highlights. I will be interested to see if his "vote your conscience" stand will turn out to be very bad or very good for his political future.
Chris Christie took Lyin' Ted to task over it. His response was worthwhile. I also kind of found myself agreeing with Christie's rationale and assessment of Lyin' Ted's speech.
In case anyone was wondering I heard on NPR today why tennis balls are prohibited. Apparently it's a fear that they will have been turned into tennis bombs.
That makes some sense. Back in WWII, some grenades were designed to be the same size as baseballs because so many American boys grew playing the game.
Chris Christie took Lyin' Ted to task over it. His response was worthwhile. I also kind of found myself agreeing with Christie's rationale and assessment of Lyin' Ted's speech.
I found it simultaneously self-serving and inspirational, which is in some ways political oratory at it's best.
Ultralight
7-21-16, 9:10am
I am starting to think that Trump has a real chance of beating Crooked Hillary in Nov.
I am starting to think that Trump has a real chance of beating Crooked Hillary in Nov.
As we say in Wisconsin, it's a horse apiece.
Whether you prefer your dishonesty and incompetence straight up or with artificial flavoring added, it's much the same product.
I am starting to think that Trump has a real chance of beating Crooked Hillary in Nov.
I don't know how many voters actually pay attention to the RNC events, but all of the family and big whip politician supporters testifying in his favor have given him a bigger image of legitimacy, I think. Lyin' Ted's speech may actually play in his favor. Ted was not exactly universally popular. I could even start to think that the plagiarism issue was a secretly well planned publicity stunt to get more media attention and that he doesn't give a hoot about who approves the music they use. I predict his acceptance speech will be a grand theatrical production.
I could see him having a chance, too. I think the distance separating them has narrowed.
Lyin' Ted's speech may actually play in his favor.
It earned Lion Ted a write-in vote from me. Whatever his motivations were, I think it important that someone in that arena remind Republicans what it means to be a conservative.
Ultralight
7-21-16, 11:53am
It earned Lion Ted a write-in vote from me. Whatever his motivations were, I think it important that someone in that arena remind Republicans what it means to be a conservative.
You are thus committing to voting for Lyin' Ted?
Would a write-in vote for Lyin' Ted be a vote for Crooked Hillary?
You are thus committing to voting for Lyin' Ted?
Would a write-in vote for Lyin' Ted be a vote for Crooked Hillary?
Probably. But given the choice between equally objectionable options, I will make an impotent gesture toward principle.
It earned Lion Ted a write-in vote from me. Whatever his motivations were, I think it important that someone in that arena remind Republicans what it means to be a conservative.
As far as I'm concerned, Gary Johnson is the real Republican candidate.
As far as I'm concerned, Gary Johnson is the real Republican candidate.
The discomfort I sometimes have with the Libertarians is that they come across as the petulant teenagers of American politics: full of righteous criticism of the adults' compromises and failures, but light on practical, actionable ideas on governance.
I do agree with you, however, that Johnson is closer to a Republican than Trump.
iris lilies
7-21-16, 2:13pm
White privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country.
The biggest problem with white privilege is the invisibility it maintains to those who benefit from it most. The inability to recognize that many of the advantages whites hold are a direct result of the disadvantages of other people, contributes to the unwillingness of white people, even those who are not overtly racist, to recognize their part in maintaining and benefiting from white supremacy.
White privilege is about not having to worry about being followed in a department store while shopping. It's about thinking that your clothes, manner of speech, and behavior in general, are racially neutral, when, in fact, they are white. It's seeing your image on television daily and knowing that you're being represented. It's people assuming that you lead a constructive life free from crime and off welfare. It's about not having to assume your daily interactions with people have racial overtones.
White privilege is having the freedom and luxury to fight racism one day and ignore it the next. White privilege exists on an individual, cultural, and institutional level.
While I know that pervasive racial discrimination exists at the micro and macro level, I also know that some charges (such as mrs Trump breaking the back of yet another poor black woman by stealing her words) are ridiculous. Charges like this perpetuate race baiting, but of course that is really the goal.
I do agree with you, however, that Johnson is closer to a Republican than Trump.
And he's more of a Republican than a Libertarian :-)
Clever of them to run a non-moonbat.
Clever of them to run a non-moonbat.
This would be the year for that. Although he runs the risk of alienating the moonbat base.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 7:18am
There you have it. Trump is the new face of the GOP.
The GOP managed to mostly unite behind Trump during the RNC.
I just wish there were more to choose from. Neither of them makes me happy. We do need change.......but surely there's a better compromise of liberal/conservative. I'm a mix of both, which means there's no one for me.
at this point, I am missing John McCain, but not Sarah Palin. I like the old Republicans much better.
at this point, I am missing John McCain, but not Sarah Palin. I like the old Republicans much better.
One of my real problems with Trump was his statement that McCain wasn't a hero because he allowed himself to be captured.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 9:32am
Here is a question:
Will the GOP be worse off if Trump wins or if he loses?
One of my real problems with Trump was his statement that McCain wasn't a hero because he allowed himself to be captured.
Yep, all this happened about the same time Trump was wallowing in daddy's money........perfect example of why people do not have respect for him.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 9:41am
...people do not have respect for him.
Uh... he is the GOP's nominee. They respect him for the most part.
Here is a question:
Will the GOP be worse off if Trump wins or if he loses?
Much worse if he wins.
Spiritually: The Party of Free People will become more like the Party of Free Stuff, pandering to envy and petty spite.
Politically: When he fails to keep his grandiose promises (or perhaps if he does), it will tar the party at all levels for years.
Aesthetically: The party of Lincoln's simple eloquence, Coolidge's laconic wit and Reagan's cheerful humor will forever be associated with Trump's crude vulgarity.
Existentially: I think there is a moderate possibility that principled conservatives may look for a new home if the GOP becomes little better than the Democrats.
Uh... he is the GOP's nominee. They respect him for the most part.
I think you're confusing respect with resigned acquiescence.
How many Democrats are supporting Clinton out of enthusiastic conviction rather than more practical reasons?
Uh... he is the GOP's nominee. They respect him for the most part.
I disagree with this.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 10:05am
I disagree with this.
Do tell...
I just wish there were more to choose from. Neither of them makes me happy. We do need change.......but surely there's a better compromise of liberal/conservative. I'm a mix of both, which means there's no one for me.
Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 11:24am
Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states.
Pretty cool!
TVRodriguez
7-22-16, 11:51am
I think you're confusing respect with resigned acquiescence.
How many Democrats are supporting Clinton out of enthusiastic conviction rather than more practical reasons?
*raises hand* I am.
In the fall of 1992, the wife of a presidential candidate came to speak at my college. It was an informal event held outside on the green, and I wandered over because I was between classes. As I watched Hillary Rodham Clinton speak, I grew more and more impressed. Here was an intelligent, warm, funny woman who could speak with wit and enthusiasm, on point, in complete sentences without a teleprompter and without reading off a written speech. I remember thinking "she's a better speaker than her husband. I wish I could vote for her for president."
Now I can, and I will--with enthusiastic conviction. And I know of many others. I am not a unicorn. My then-future SIL was at the same event, and she came away similarly impressed. We only recently realized that we were both there. But both of us carried that conviction to this day. I'm with Hillary.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 11:52am
Charm can go a long way.
Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states.
But as in some other elections, if one votes with their "conscience", it may take away votes from the "lesser of 2 evils" out there.
I would really love to know the true Trump family dynamics. Is it possible that Trump was a very loving father? Is that a side of him he just never wanted to show?
Is it possible that one day, some of his children will write "Daddy Dearest"? I would really love to know what Trump truly feels inside, without all of his defense mechanisms leading him around.
Have you heard his son Eric speak? I had to turn it off. He talks like he's on amphetamines. But then his daughter was so calm. Maybe he treated them very differently........like some fathers do.
*raises hand* I am.
In the fall of 1992, the wife of a presidential candidate came to speak at my college. It was an informal event held outside on the green, and I wandered over because I was between classes. As I watched Hillary Rodham Clinton speak, I grew more and more impressed. Here was an intelligent, warm, funny woman who could speak with wit and enthusiasm, on point, in complete sentences without a teleprompter and without reading off a written speech. I remember thinking "she's a better speaker than her husband. I wish I could vote for her for president."
Now I can, and I will--with enthusiastic conviction. And I know of many others. I am not a unicorn. My then-future SIL was at the same event, and she came away similarly impressed. We only recently realized that we were both there. But both of us carried that conviction to this day. I'm with Hillary.
I'm not saying you don't exist. But polling seems to indicate you are outnumbered by Democrats who will be holding their nose when they vote for her.
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/190787/clinton-image-among-democrats-new-low.aspx
Ultralight
7-22-16, 12:30pm
I know a whole bunch of Dems who don't want to vote for Crooked Hillary, but they will.
Their rationale is intriguing to me...
But as in some other elections, if one votes with their "conscience", it may take away votes from the "lesser of 2 evils" out there.
You stated: "but surely there's a better compromise of liberal/conservative. I'm a mix of both, which means there's no one for me." Gary Johnson pretty much fits the bill.
So the question before you is - do you vote for someone who more closely aligns with your beliefs and who can do the job, or do you play the absurd game the two main parties have placed before you?
Don't fall for that "lesser of 2 evils" argument - there are more than two choices out there.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 12:39pm
Jill Stein?
I'm not saying you don't exist. But polling seems to indicate you are outnumbered by Democrats who will be holding their nose when they vote for her.
In my area, there are a lot of very committed, very vocal Hillary supporters, who do not get along at *all* with the Bernie supporters.
The Hillary supporters tend not to speak of character, or accomplishments, or philosophy. They offer reasons like "it's her turn" or "it's time we had a female President, vote for Hillary or you are a sexist pig" or "Trump is the devil, vote Hillary."
Many of them are so committed that they will cast you out of their social circles if you are not all-in-for-Hillary.
It's sort of spooky.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/288546-poll-libertarian-johnson-beating-trump-clinton-among-active-duty-troops
Jill Stein?
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/19/24362128/dan-savage-on-jill-stein-just-no
I know a number of committed Hillary supporters. In general they have not appreciated my attempts to point out her flaws. I've unfollowed a number of them on Facebook because despite our disagreement on this topic I would like to remain friends with them. Once the election is over I will probably re-follow most of them. In the meantime our interactions will mainly consist of them commenting on the nearly daily pictures I post of my cat. (He wants to do his part to rectify the shortage of cute cat pictures online...)
... the nearly daily pictures I post of my cat. (He wants to do his part to rectify the shortage of cute cat pictures online...)
http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/kritzer_01_15/
What I find ironic is the mayor of Cleveland wanted to have the concealed carry law stopped during the convention. But no. they won't do it. (There might not even be enough time to do something like that). But wouldn't it be funny if the republicans ended up reaping what they sowed??
Guess your hopes of violence didn't pan out....
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/07/22/how-many-people-were-shot-by-open-carriers-at-the-rnc/?singlepage=true
iris lilies
7-22-16, 1:36pm
I know a number of committed Hillary supporters. In general they have not appreciated my attempts to point out her flaws. I've unfollowed a number of them on Facebook because despite our disagreement on this topic I would like to remain friends with them. Once the election is over I will probably re-follow most of them. In the meantime our interactions will mainly consist of them commenting on the nearly daily pictures I post of my cat. (He wants to do his part to rectify the shortage of cute cat pictures online...)
Our formerly close friends, a gay couple, are coming to visit from California where they moved a few years ago ( that's why we are no longer close.) One of them has already warned that discussion of politics is off limits. :) So we are forewarned! He and our mutual close friend had a little tiff on FB. One of the couple often votes Republican but this time he is not and I wont blame him for that. I do treasure the Log Cabin Republicans.
He and our mutual close friend had a little tiff on FB. One of the couple often votes Republican but this time he is not and I wont blame him for that. I do treasure the Log Cabin Republicans.
My father and his husband have generally voted Republican, but they will not be doing so this time. I have trouble imagining any member of the LGBTQ... community doing so for the foreseeable future.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 1:44pm
I know a number of committed Hillary supporters.
You spelled "crooked" wrong.
But as in some other elections, if one votes with their "conscience", it may take away votes from the "lesser of 2 evils" out there.
I'm cynical enough to generally practice the LO2E philosophy. However, this year there's more in Heaven and Earth than was dream't of in my philosophy, and I have to account for equivalent magnitudes of evil.
iris lilies
7-22-16, 1:57pm
I will add in The Donald's favor that there is a fair amount of evidence he was friendly to gay issues before this political run. He evolved before Barack Obama, and he is a generation older than our enlightened President.
Guess your hopes of violence didn't pan out....
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/07/22/how-many-people-were-shot-by-open-carriers-at-the-rnc/?singlepage=true
Well, there was that one guy who set himself on fire trying to burn the flag. One of those brutal cops said "You're on fire, stupid". That was sort of violent.
I know a number of committed Hillary supporters. In general they have not appreciated my attempts to point out her flaws. I've unfollowed a number of them on Facebook because despite our disagreement on this topic I would like to remain friends with them. Once the election is over I will probably re-follow most of them. In the meantime our interactions will mainly consist of them commenting on the nearly daily pictures I post of my cat. (He wants to do his part to rectify the shortage of cute cat pictures online...)
Who does your cat plan to vote for? I've heard the feline demographic polls favorable for fishy candidates.
You stated: "but surely there's a better compromise of liberal/conservative. I'm a mix of both, which means there's no one for me." Gary Johnson pretty much fits the bill.
So the question before you is - do you vote for someone who more closely aligns with your beliefs and who can do the job, or do you play the absurd game the two main parties have placed before you?
Don't fall for that "lesser of 2 evils" argument - there are more than two choices out there.
I've read his polling numbers aren't falling far short of the 15% or so he'd need to be invited to televised debates.
iris lilies
7-22-16, 2:34pm
Well, there was that one guy who set himself on fire trying to burn the flag. One of those brutal cops said "You're on fire, stupid". That was sort of violent.
That cop's attitude toward stupid people was in need of a light shined n it.
Ultralight
7-22-16, 2:47pm
It's Trump's Party now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-republican-nominee_us_579167e1e4b0bdddc4d3f03c?section=
"Trump tied most of these woes to a “rigged system” ― but then suggested his experience in manipulating that system through the years would now work to the country’s advantage. “Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it,” he said."
Guess your hopes of violence didn't pan out....
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/07/22/how-many-people-were-shot-by-open-carriers-at-the-rnc/?singlepage=true
Yes, I was sooooo disappointed. You know how I love bloodshed. :cool:
It's Trump's Party now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-republican-nominee_us_579167e1e4b0bdddc4d3f03c?section=
"Trump tied most of these woes to a “rigged system” ― but then suggested his experience in manipulating that system through the years would now work to the country’s advantage. “Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it,” he said."
The race to the bottom continues next week.
Who does your cat plan to vote for? I've heard the feline demographic polls favorable for fishy candidates.
After he learned the story of how the Clinton's abandoned Socks to the secretary because of his disagreements with Buddy, despite his being the older pet, my cat has vowed never to vote for Clinton. Plus I think he likes the idea of voting for the candidate with coloration that most closely matches his.
After he learned the story of how the Clinton's abandoned Socks to the secretary because of his disagreements with Buddy, despite his being the older pet, my cat has vowed never to vote for Clinton. Plus I think he likes the idea of voting for the candidate with coloration that most closely matches his.
I had almost forgotten about Buddygate.
Fact checking the science in the Republican party platform:
http://www.livescience.com/55481-analysis-of-rnc-2016-platform.html
Ultralight
7-22-16, 4:14pm
Fact checking the science in the Republican party platform:
http://www.livescience.com/55481-analysis-of-rnc-2016-platform.html
Science is for sinners!
Here's the 2016 GOP Platform:
https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL[1]-ben_1468872234.pdf
More incoming, but there's the text....
Teacher Terry
7-22-16, 4:29pm
I found it truly disgusting what Trump said about McCain. McCain could have had a get out of jail free card by disavowing the war since his Dad was an admiral but didn't and ended up staying I think about 6-7 years in captivity. That is a man with convictions. I wish McCain was the repub candidate this time. Also I saw a video of a man with a very small company that was just about bankrupted by Trump refusing before he had no financial problems. Yeah, and Trump says he will help small business-right!
Comment One: They forgot to take a position on the 3rd Amendment.
But seriously, I'm wading through this disaster, and it makes my skin crawl.
Also:
http://www.logcabin.org/pressrelease/a-message-on-the-gop-platform-from-log-cabin-republicans-president-gregory-t-angelo/
iris lilies
7-22-16, 7:13pm
Comment One: They forgot to take a position on the 3rd Amendment.
But seriously, I'm wading through this disaster, and it makes my skin crawl.
Also:
http://www.logcabin.org/pressrelease/a-message-on-the-gop-platform-from-log-cabin-republicans-president-gregsory-t-angelo/ (http://www.logcabin.org/pressrelease/a-message-on-the-gop-platform-from-log-cabin-republicans-president-gregory-t-angelo/)
The RNC makes its platform prior to the convention? I am surprised by that.
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