View Full Version : Safety today
This is sad for me to even ask or think about knowing it is just part of life now.
How/What do you if you do carry to protect yourself when out and about by yourself. Such as Biking, hiking, running, walking in parking lots or in your home?
I am outside alone daily with my hobbies, on the trails and roads at least three hours a day just about every single day. These should be the simplest things to do. I used to be scared, then perhaps over confident or a false sense of security. This past two weeks in our area we have had three bikers, two of which were killed. One terrible terrible attack and killing of young lady on bike by what now looks like a serial killer>:(
Last week I lost my sense of safety again which is sad. I was actually only road the trails twice. I hiked not really out of the area. I know I will return to my normal soon, but now wonder again how to "watch out" for the crazies.
I know the best line of protection is awareness, the get out of the situation asap when something feels wrong or is wrong. I carry mace and an air horn. The air horn is actually for dogs to startle them long enough to get to safety. The mace is on my handle bars or on my wrist. Last year I asked a lady on the trail why she did not have mace on her, she lifted the side of her shirt and said " I carry a gun".You won I said. I do not want to reach that point of gun protection. Yes in house we have guns, I have grizzly bear spray that I would hope never ever to use.
Any other tips? I hate thinking the world is really that terribly bad:(
.380 and 9mm, depending on what I'm wearing.
I carry a Spydero Delica knife in my off-hand (left) pants pocket (pistol is on the right side). I had Fox Labs pepper spray that lived in my purse, but after a coworker has had some scary episodes walking her dog in her condo complex, I gave her my pepper spray and I've not yet replaced it.
CTG, get a carry pistol and get training on how to use it. I prefer Massad Ayoob's 40 hour MAG-40 class (I've taken it). You can do the 20 hour classroom legal portion in a weekend separately from the 20-hour live fire portion. $800 total, but it's well worth it. The legal portion was invaluable and the shooting portion vastly improved my shooting. I've taken a number of other defensive pistol and rifle classes. Just this year I've taken defensive pistol, defensive rifle, and a low light class.
You say there are guns in your home. Do you know how to shoot them competently? Do you go to the range on a regular basis? Shooting is perishable skill and you need to keep in practice.
Learn to pay attention to your spidey sense and keep your head on a swivel.
I'd like to discuss this more too. I anticipate taking up early morning walking after retirement next year, and my only hesitation is the personal safety factor. Our neighborhood is generally safe but I also know that's no guarantee of avoiding issues.
Lainey, even "good" neighborhoods in Chicago that have few if any shootings, have had an increase in armed robbery, burglary, and the like. I have friends still in the city who tell me about their neighborhood alerts from the police.
Most of these tools are of very little use without training and practice. Furthermore, most of the skills are perishable, so constant drill is required to maintain proficiency.
Also, my firm belief is that the single best tool for the job is "situational awareness" and learning to trust your instincts.
That said, I minimally carry *every* day, from about the time I wake up:
- high quality tourniquet and some gauze
- waved Spyderco Endura knife, also clipped off-hand, for defensive purposes only.
- Spyderco Delica, not clipped, in strong-side pocket, for cutting everyday items.
- Rohrbaugh R9 very small 9mm pistol in a pocket, or a S&W J-frame in .357.
I then upgrade depending on my situation/location with one or more of:
Knives:
- a small neck knife - for kayaking/boating/climbing, where I need easy access to a blade fast for safety, not particularly a knife meant for self-defense, though in a pinch...
- a Fällkniven fixed blade in a sheath on belt, with firesteel and magnesium tinder attached to the sheath, for outside hiking/rescue - small, medium, or large, depending on if I am carrying an axe as well. More of a utility knife, but quite handy for other purposes if need be. Slow to access though with the retention devices on the sheaths.
- a Bagwell-style Hell's Belle Bowie, ~11" blade, in a Southern Comfort inside-the-belt sheath - this is my preferred "sidearm" where legal to carry, it is concealable even with shorts and a t-shirt, it draws in the blink of an eye, it never runs out of ammo. I practice Bowie fighting about an hour a day, and have trained under the world's experts in the field. It is almost as good as carrying a cutlass or saber.
Guns:
- In an urban or boring rural environment, I stick to a 9mm semiautomatic pistol carried in a kydex IWB holster, generally either a Glock 19 with a red dot sight, or a H&K PSP P7.
- In a more wilderness or challenging rural environment where larger animals may be an issue, I switch to a 10mm Glock, or a S&W revolver in .44 magnum or .357 magnum depending on my destination. Some locations I will upgrade that to a .454 Casull. Bears are a thing...
- In certain rare places/situations, I will carry a carbine in a discreet bag, and a set of body armor. Generally a FN P90 or an Uzi.
- In wilderness settings with particular challenges, I will carry a rifle, generally a lever-action 45-70, but sometimes something more "tactical".
Oh geez............
Do you have something productive to contribute, Cathy? Please share!
I'm going with bae's situational awareness, and the odds--which are strongly in my favor. Though if I lived in an area where a serial killer was targeting lame old women, I might carry something like Tigerlady or wasp spray, or stick to well-traveled areas, which I'm likely to do anyway. I believe the odds of my having to defend myself with a weapon are minuscule.
I've told the story of my WWII vet father, who was mugged in his own front yard, in a nice neighborhood by a young man pretending he was looking for work. Should he have been wearing a sidearm? Probably not--the assailant could have just as easily snatched it away as he did my father's wallet. He wasn't as quick as he could have been, in his eighties. Paranoia runs deep in this country, and it is rarely justified by the crime statistics or anecdotal evidence. But whatever makes you feel safter, I guess--as long as no one gets hurt.
Oh geez............
You don't consider this a legit question, Cathy? Lots of women I know carry pepper spray, but unless you have it in your hand, immediately accessible, it's pretty much useless if you have to dig for it at the bottom of your bag. Within the past year or so, a woman jogger in Chicago was able to fend off a would-be rapist with pepper spray, but only because she was running with it in her hand.
Some people are comfortable with lethal means (firearms, knives) and others with less-lethal (pepper spray).
I'm going with bae's situational awareness, and the odds--which are strongly in my favor. Though if I lived in an area where a serial killer was targeting lame old women, I might carry something like Tigerlady or wasp spray, or stick to well-traveled areas, which I'm likely to do anyway. I believe the odds of my having to defend myself with a weapon are minuscule.
I've told the story of my WWII vet father, who was mugged in his own front yard, in a nice neighborhood by a young man pretending he was looking for work. Should he have been wearing a sidearm? Probably not--the assailant could have just as easily snatched it away as he did my father's wallet. He wasn't as quick as he could have been, in his eighties. Paranoia runs deep in this country, and it is rarely justified by the crime statistics or anecdotal evidence. But whatever makes you feel safter, I guess--as long as no one gets hurt.
Not necessarily, depending on how your father carried a pistol. I'm of the opinion that everyone who carries needs to take a weapons retention class. I took such a class last year, which my shooting instructor put together at my request. There were about 15 of us in the class, I was one of only two women. I carry in the waistband appendix, which is when you wear your pistol in front of your strong side hip. Everyone else in the class carried behind their hip or on their hip. Too easy for someone to come behind them and get a hand on their pistol. With the way I carry, you have to come at me from the front. No one in the class, including the instructors were able to get my pistol away from me. They said it was an eye-opener for them on appendix carry.
ETA: of course, when I carry my LCP .380 in my bra holster, no one is going to get it, because they don't know it's there. It's a surprisingly comfy way to carry.
Not necessarily, depending on how your father carried a pistol. I'm of the opinion that everyone who carries needs to take a weapons retention class. I took such a class last year,...
Exactly.
As it happens, I am a Lindell-curriculum-based weapons retention instructor and have taught lots of civilians and LE officers. I still do at the Seattle Police instructional facility from time-to-time.
This is one of the reasons why I am not a big fan of open-carry. Police officers, even with their retention holsters and retention training, have gun grabs attempted all the time, generally not successfully... And why I carry a knife off-hand, to cut someone off my gun if they make a grab. Most police officers I know carry a small blade similarly situated for that purpose.
But again, situational awareness and proper body positioning go a long way towards preventing gun grabs.
At that point, my father didn't have a "good hip." He managed to live into his nineties after laying down arms at war's end. Being mugged didn't slow him down much.
Teacher Terry
7-31-16, 4:15pm
If I take the big dog walking where it is isolated I don't go alone. I am aware if going to a store, etc. If I walk the big guy around our neighborhood I know many of the people, etc and only go during the day if I am alone. When I was a SW and going into people's homes I had pepper spray and also when I went to grad school in a big city and had to walk to my car alone I always had pepper spray in my hand. I feel safe at home when my hubby is gone due to my 80lb husky/shepherd mix. He is sweet but very protective too. If we are walking when he is off leash when someone is approaching he gets between me and the person. He does this way before I am near the person. He also has been vicious when he has needed to be.
At that point, my father didn't have a "good hip." He managed to live into his nineties after laying down arms at war's end. Being mugged didn't slow him down much.
Past a certain age, simply waking up each morning is a great victory :-)
Teacher Terry
7-31-16, 4:18pm
When my Grandma was 88 she liked to walk to a store about 2 blocks away. One day 2 teens knocked her down and stole her purse. She was afraid to leave the house alone after that. It was sad they took away what little independence she still had.
Most of these tools are of very little use without training and practice. Furthermore, most of the skills are perishable, so constant drill is required to maintain proficiency.
Also, my firm belief is that the single best tool for the job is "situational awareness" and learning to trust your instincts.
That said, I minimally carry *every* day, from about the time I wake up:
- high quality tourniquet and some gauze
- waved Spyderco Endura knife, also clipped off-hand, for defensive purposes only.
- Spyderco Delica, not clipped, in strong-side pocket, for cutting everyday items.
- Rohrbaugh R9 very small 9mm pistol in a pocket, or a S&W J-frame in .357.
I then upgrade depending on my situation/location with one or more of:
Knives:
- a small neck knife - for kayaking/boating/climbing, where I need easy access to a blade fast for safety, not particularly a knife meant for self-defense, though in a pinch...
- a Fällkniven fixed blade in a sheath on belt, with firesteel and magnesium tinder attached to the sheath, for outside hiking/rescue - small, medium, or large, depending on if I am carrying an axe as well. More of a utility knife, but quite handy for other purposes if need be. Slow to access though with the retention devices on the sheaths.
- a Bagwell-style Hell's Belle Bowie, ~11" blade, in a Southern Comfort inside-the-belt sheath - this is my preferred "sidearm" where legal to carry, it is concealable even with shorts and a t-shirt, it draws in the blink of an eye, it never runs out of ammo. I practice Bowie fighting about an hour a day, and have trained under the world's experts in the field. It is almost as good as carrying a cutlass or saber.
Guns:
- In an urban or boring rural environment, I stick to a 9mm semiautomatic pistol carried in a kydex IWB holster, generally either a Glock 19 with a red dot sight, or a H&K PSP P7.
- In a more wilderness or challenging rural environment where larger animals may be an issue, I switch to a 10mm Glock, or a S&W revolver in .44 magnum or .357 magnum depending on my destination. Some locations I will upgrade that to a .454 Casull. Bears are a thing...
- In certain rare places/situations, I will carry a carbine in a discreet bag, and a set of body armor. Generally a FN P90 or an Uzi.
- In wilderness settings with particular challenges, I will carry a rifle, generally a lever-action 45-70, but sometimes something more "tactical".
Oh bae.......surely you have to appreciate that everything you said was a bit much. And who, besides you, has all that stuff? Do you really think ctg492 really needed a response like that? It was just bragging.
And whenever a post like this comes up, it ends up being a discourse on who has what kind of gun, etc.
You can think what you want, but I don't see how anything you said really addressed ctg's question, in a common sense way.
Ctg......like others have said, awareness is your first line of defense. Maybe you should change your course to avoid certain, more remote/known-to-be-more dangerous areas. I might carry a metal rod......but anything you have might be used against you too. I carry a hammer on my cart, but that's usually for a crazy dog that might come at me. I also carry a pry bar in the front of my car, in case I need to whack someone.
It IS very sad that our feelings of security/safety are slowly (or rapidly) being taken away.
It was just bragging.
Nope. I don't see why you feel a need to engage in a personal attack.
You can think what you want, but I don't see how anything you said really addressed ctg's question, in a common sense way.
Perhaps you should reread it then.
I know 100% each and every one can be victims, sadly it is the way it is. I do not use guns, I made that point, to say I have no gun issue, husband has way to many. I have my Grizzly bear spray next to my bed, I suppose it is close to being a gun actually. I sure know I can grab it quicker. In my home I have large dogs that make me feel safe, it is not at home I have the concern really. I just lost my sense of safety last week :( I always rode/ran the gravel country roads to get my miles in. I love the feeling of the farms and gravel, then last year I became scared and quit which is probably best as it remote. SO that leaves city and trails, I am sure this week I will return to my normal routine, I hope.
I am going to add, I have no security system in my home. Hubby has a toy car that would be on the list to steal. I say if anyone comes for that car I will toss the keys from 50 ft at them. Neighbors moved in last spring and had the most elaborate security system installed, cameras around the outside, panel I can see blinking with screens in the lower lever. SO each is very different, I feel safe in my home guess they don't.
I am going to add, I have no security system in my home.
Our security system consists of a 100+ plus Black and Tan Coonhound, a similarly-sized Bloodhound, and a 40 pound Portuguese Water Dog. If they make it past that, the cat weighs 25 pounds or so, and rules the house.
80 pound Rott mix, 60 pound Retriever mix, 45 pound beagle Mix and worst of all the Jack Russell Terrorist.
iris lilies
7-31-16, 8:42pm
Not necessarily, depending on how your father carried a pistol. I'm of the opinion that everyone who carries needs to take a weapons retention class. I took such a class last year, which my shooting instructor put together at my request. There were about 15 of us in the class, I was one of only two women. I carry in the waistband appendix, which is when you wear your pistol in front of your strong side hip. Everyone else in the class carried behind their hip or on their hip. Too easy for someone to come behind them and get a hand on their pistol. With the way I carry, you have to come at me from the front. No one in the class, including the instructors were able to get my pistol away from me. They said it was an eye-opener for them on appendix carry.
ETA: of course, when I carry my LCP .380 in my bra holster, no one is going to get it, because they don't know it's there. It's a surprisingly comfy way to carry.
This s fascnatng. What s a "stong side hip," the side
i would pivot out?
The bra thng sounds good!
iris lilies
7-31-16, 8:45pm
Not necessarily, depending on how your father carried a pistol. I'm of the opinion that everyone who carries needs to take a weapons retention class. I took such a class last year, which my shooting instructor put together at my request. There were about 15 of us in the class, I was one of only two women. I carry in the waistband appendix, which is when you wear your pistol in front of your strong side hip. Everyone else in the class carried behind their hip or on their hip. Too easy for someone to come behind them and get a hand on their pistol. With the way I carry, you have to come at me from the front. No one in the class, including the instructors were able to get my pistol away from me. They said it was an eye-opener for them on appendix carry.
ETA: of course, when I carry my LCP .380 in my bra holster, no one is going to get it, because they don't know it's there. It's a surprisingly comfy way to carry.
This s fascnatng. What s a "strong side hip," the side
i would pivot out to bump somene?
The bra thing sounds good!
This s fascnatng. What s a "stong side hip," the side
i would pivot out?
"Strong-side" typically means the dominant-hand side, the side you will likely be drawing and using the weapon with.
"Weak-side" is the non-dominant side.
Top-notch trainers have been moving away from this language the past few years, as it seems to program people into ignoring their other hand, or thinking the other hand is weak. We now teach ambidextrous fire for a variety of reasons, and don't want people falling into a mental trap that impairs their abilities.
The bra thing sounds good!
The Marilyn holster
http://flashbangstore.com/products/copy-of-the-marilyn
Think as your belt buckle/belly button as 12 o'clock. i wear my pistol about 2 o'clock, about where the front pocket of your jeans is. I usually put the end of the holster clip in the wee little pocket.
At my wedding, I had a Walther PPK in my sporran, which is sort-of purse carry. And a sgian-dubh in my stocking. And a smallsword. Two of my groomsmen had more serious weaponry on their persons, but they worked for some unnamed federal agency, as did my dear bride.
At my wedding, I had a Walther PPK in my sporran, which is sort-of purse carry. And a sgian-dubh in my stocking. And a smallsword. Two of my groomsmen had more serious weaponry on their persons, but they worked for some unnamed federal agency, as did my dear bride.
Sounds like the wedding from All Heads Turn When the Hunt Goes By. or Hunger Games...Gives new meaning to the expression "shotgun wedding."
Glad you avoided mass casualties! (Where that armed Cthulu when you need him?)
Glad you avoided mass casualties! (Where that armed Cthulu when you need him?)
He was in the tank right behind us - we got married at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, right in front of the giant kelp-and-scary-monster tank.
At the moment of our wedding, my brother-in-law had already threatened to kill us all, and my wife's previous prosecutorial victims and their friends and associates were still...being ominous. The FBI guys there had some serious hardware at the ready...
Life is much simpler now. Thank you, YMOYL!
It sounds like the height of excitement--and I love the thought of a wedding at the aquarium.
And I guess that was Game of Thrones...I've never seen or read either of those dramas, but I knew there was a bloody scene in there somewhere...
I am sad we have reached a point of One Must Carry.
SO I am getting back normal this morning. I hiked my usual root, yes I mix it up so I am not predictable totally. Headed out biking in a bit to the places I love to ride. During the last week of events that I am sure bothered everyone who was an outside person, I worked my through the "it has always happened" today was no different than yesterday , so carry on and be safe on guard and alert.
Ultralight
8-1-16, 11:33am
I think situational awareness and evasive action are key to personal safety. I focus on these at the moment.
I think situational awareness and evasive action are key to personal safety. I focus on these at the moment.
That would be preferable to walking around accessorized by Tom Clancy. Carrying one weapon to deal with someone trying to snatch another part of my arsenal seems a little extreme to me.
Before I leave the bunker for the daily struggle for survival, I strap on my HP12C calculator, my Apple Iphone 4, my Pilot G2 Limited pen and an inoffensive demeanor. If I encounter truculent relatives or hostile special forces, I'll just have to improvise something.
If I encounter truculent relatives or hostile special forces, I'll just have to improvise something.Some people are natural sheep dogs, others are not. The good thing about sheep dogs is that they place your safety right up their alongside their own, so if you're in the right company improvisation may not be necessary.
Some people are natural sheep dogs, others are not. The good thing about sheep dogs is that they place your safety right up their alongside their own, so if you're in the right company improvisation may not be necessary.
If that happens, I hope my sheep dog has decent target discrimination.
If that happens, I hope my sheep dog has decent target discrimination.
Yes, always remember that when a sheep dog goes after a wolf on attack, it's best to stay out of the way.
Teacher Terry
8-1-16, 12:58pm
Bae, that sounds like Jason Bournes's wedding:)) No wonder you moved to a remote island. That is no way to live being armed to the teeth. That is one of the reasons I left SW after only 4 years. A SW that I worked with was murdered and it took them 20 years to solve it. Just as I suspected it was a horrible client that we shared in common. The town we lived in only had a pop of 100k. Life is too short for that kind of crap!
Miss Cellane
8-1-16, 1:18pm
This is not something I think about a lot on a day to day basis.
I'm lucky to live in a pretty safe city in a pretty safe state.
That certainly doesn't prevent someone from staging a mass shooting, but I suspect that there is little that could save one if one were among the first targets of someone with an automatic weapon and a desire to kill people. If I'm ever in that situation, I hope for a clean, quick death or a mild injury or escaping to safety. I think that in the chaos of a mass spree shooting, additional weapons in the hands of those not trained for combat or combat-like situations will only lead to more deaths and injuries due to "friendly" fire. Frankly, knowing that the stranger standing next to me in line might be carrying a gun makes me more scared and worried, not less, because I have no idea if they even know how to use it correctly, let alone aim it and have even a 50% chance of hitting what they are aiming at, let alone be able to keep their head in a crisis situation.
As mentioned, I think situation awareness is key. I know where I am going. I avoid the known bad places in the area--not necessarily in my town, but one town over, there's a known drug-dealing street, that sort of thing.
There's also the way you present yourself. Some people look or act more like victims than others. A friend of my brother's once told me that he had seen me the previous day, walking home from work. He did not stop and say hello, he said, because of the focused way I was looking and walking. Apparently, I was sending out massive, "Do not mess with me," signals. Which, since at the time I was living in a major city with a high crime rate, was not a bad thing. Although getting mugged or whatever was never on my mind when I was walking to and from work, so I have no idea why I was sending out those vibes.
If I'm mugged, I'm just handing over my handbag. There's nothing in there that isn't replaceable. And nothing that could be used as a weapon against me.
On a daily basis, I take walks in the city parks, I go to work, I walk downtown to the library and post office and bakery, I go to the beach, all without worrying about my safety. At night, in "bad" areas, I am more cautious, but if I were afraid, I simply wouldn't go to those places.
I get afraid at specific things--the man who was much taller/stronger than me who kept bumping into me while we were in line at the bank--there was a physical threat because of his size, and a worry that he was maybe trying to see the checks I was holding to get some information on me. I simply stepped out of line, went over to the receptionist, mentioned my concerns, and they called the security guard, who watched him and stopped him when he started bumping into the woman who was now in front of him in line.
I am more aware at night, in parking garages and such, but it's things like checking before getting out of the car to see if anyone is around. If there is, and I think they look shady, I'll just stay put until they are gone. Or I'll move the car, I guess, since this has never happened.
It just seems odd to me to live life in fear every single second. Yes, there are times and places we should take precautions. I used to live in a large city and behaved differently there, because there was more crime. But I still wasn't afraid to step out the door every single day.
my husband bought a pistol for me to carry. Seems I am a pretty decent shot. I still have to do an 8 hr class to be licensed to carry in TN. I am really afraid of firearms and know if put under pressure I will not be able to shoot so well. Also am trying to find a way to carry concealed and may end up just putting it in my bag. All that being said, I think pepper spray in the hand is a good solution when out and about.
Miss Cellane, you touched on the "personal space" aspect. As an average-size older woman, if I'm standing alone in a public area like a grocery store or other line, I've had multiple experiences with people who don't respect the concept of personal space. This is usually men but even sometimes distracted or clueless women, who are literally breathing down my neck, sometimes even trying to stand right over me as I'm punching in my ATM code. I always turn around and stare at them until they literally back off. They don't seem to do this with men or larger-size people, so what the heck is this? They can't wait 2 seconds until my transaction or business is done and that if they stand right up on my back that I'll be done faster?
I think that for anyone, defense of your personal space is a basic safety priority.
my husband bought a pistol for me to carry. Seems I am a pretty decent shot. I still have to do an 8 hr class to be licensed to carry in TN. I am really afraid of firearms and know if put under pressure I will not be able to shoot so well. Also am trying to find a way to carry concealed and may end up just putting it in my bag. All that being said, I think pepper spray in the hand is a good solution when out and about.
If you're going to purse carry, you need to put your pistol in a holster BEFORE putting it in your purse. Just having it floating around in your purse is a bad idea. There are some cute purses made for carry. I've got a couple. I like this company. http://www.guntotenmamas.com
What pistol did your hubby get you? Go out shooting more and you won't be so afraid.
iris lilies
8-2-16, 12:23am
I looked carefully at a couple of those purses. So, am I right in saying that they have built-in holsters? That is snazzy.
It seems you have to open the gun compartment with zippers. I hate wrestleing with zippers, I Would like to have that work with velcro.
It's a separate holster that attaches with Velcro so you can adjust it for your draw stroke.
Think about it - zippers are pretty quiet. Velcro is noisy. Would you really want to announce to everyone you're getting ready to draw?
iris lilies
8-2-16, 10:12am
It's a separate holster that attaches with Velcro so you can adjust it for your draw stroke.
Think about it - zippers are pretty quiet. Velcro is noisy. Would you really want to announce to everyone you're getting ready to draw?
Ok, I see that! :)
Yes, always remember that when a sheep dog goes after a wolf on attack, it's best to stay out of the way.
Especially if you're unclear on where each party falls on the wolf/dog continuum. And especially if there are multiple wolves and dogs present. Best to find a tree or portly person to hide behind until all the drama plays itself out.
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