is this a middle age thing

[Zoe Girl]

I am not sure where this belongs but this is the best place I can figure out. Basically in meditation group tonight I hit a moment that is sticking with me, I have not lived up to my expectations for myself. I know my expectations are pretty high for myself, however I still am hitting that wall. I ended up with a very traditional female life, and I am not sure I wanted it like this. I know that I hit a lot of points of fear where I backed off, and a whole lot of circumstances. I realize how much caregiving I have done and continue to do, but going into the empty nest stage (okay one kid lives with me and I really like it, it would be lonely by myself) is a let down. If I changed one thing about raising my kids I would have not taken time off work. Even if all I did for a few years was pay for childcare I would have worked. And I actually really liked many aspects of being home, I did a good job at it, I just realize that it is part of what set me up for this situation I am currently living in. When opportunities came up I always erred on the side of taking care of my family.

I also see those moments that are prime moments, that moment that things can go either way. You can take a chance or stay limited and fearful. Without playing victim I realize that the message I got was very much to not take the risk. There are other times when I realize even a small amount of encouragement would have had a huge impact. People around me have their own issues, playing it safe means I have always had a job during all the recession and following years. It means I am careful with money. It means when I had a bad year at work I acted maturely and just learned instead of stomping off angry. I still also need those moments of encouragement in my relationships at work. I think I am seen as very self-sufficient, a little aloof, and not someone that needs a lot of support. I am always willing to help, more caregiving, and yet it has not been that satisfying at times. I keep watching opportunities go to other people. So I am dealing with not taking the fearful route, and it isn't making a difference. I know, patience.

I have a mentor who is very helpful, I am also ready to tell my supervisor that I have this mentor (I checked with the mentor and it is up to me to tell her if I want, and totally okay to have a mentor without getting permission). I also want to ask for more support in more challenging training for me. I feel I have a lot of leadership qualities, and yet I feel they are mostly used in counting on me always being helpful rather than leading. My supervisors can't seem to remember the things I have done over the years. I have done this with friendships, letting people give me advice when I was more than capable but caring about their feelings so much that I didn't say anything. I do things like own a coffee maker but I don't drink coffee just for when my mom visits, but it isn't noticed. Or more likely people don't think I need to hear it when they do notice.

Okay that was a super long post, I do think this is middle age, where you realize the other paths you could have taken, and some empty nest. But what is sticking around is that I expected more from myself.

[ApatheticNoMore]

It's not always better to take risks (whoever says it is is blowing smoke). Now if the risks are just social embarrassment or something then yes maybe it is better to take risks sometimes (what's the worst that can happen? etc.), but if we're talking real economic risks, it's not always better to take risks. "Strategic" economic risks, but most have a very hard time knowing what risks really are "strategic" or making any rational sense of risks at all (and if they are - are they really risks at all?), maybe oftentimes this is often only knowable in retrospect.

Not living up to expectations, oh we may be told the task of middle age is to have a mid-life crisis about our expectations, but maybe the task of middle age is humility and realizing we don't need to meet all those expectations anyway (the reverse of adolescence).

Of course improving your work situation might be doable if it's really what you want.

I'm not sure the type of personality that would be more risk taking is the type of personality with such a need for specific results to begin with (specific results in the form of success in some form or other). As there seems a very basic contradiction there: between 1) life seen as well controlled to achieve our goals or 2) life as uncontrolled adventure/surprise. "I should take risks" and "I must succeed" may be psychological contradictions ("I must succeed" -> don't risk it). A certain reality perhaps of middle age might be realizing that it's often evades our best attempt at control anyway, the results of our paths can not be entirely foreseen.

[Tammy]

I'm increasingly feminist as the years go by. I'm surprised I was ok without it 20-30 years ago. I wouldn't be now. I see some of those threads in your post.

I'm glad I keep changing. To do otherwise would be boring and stale.

Does it help to think of it that way?

[Zoe Girl]

You are both bringing really helpful perspectives to this. I think I can be okay with not being a big risk taker in many ways. One thing that comes up is seeing how things have changed for women and ways that they haven't. It is amazing sometimes to see how men are joining the issues we can have, and it is something that I didn't know I was missing until I saw things change.

A risk I am glad I didn't take, stomping off in righteous anger and writing a novel instead of staying employed. That was a VERY good thing.
A risk I wish I would have taken, staying in more math classes past Calc 2, and doing more things that used that part of my intelligence.

and another take away, i think everyone who is divorced has moments of wondering what the heck they saw in that person. Part of this process was to realize my ex was okay with me being smart. That was a big deal in the early 80's. A lot of guys walked away when they realized I was smart, in a higher math class for example. Then at some point I moved away from science largely because I couldn't handle the way it was so competitive and met the needs of the guys but not comfortable for me. I also stayed home in large part because I was sick of the sexist stuff in the workplace and went towards female dominated work.

[Ultralight]

...I have not lived up to my expectations for myself. I know my expectations are pretty high for myself, however I still am hitting that wall. I ended up with a very traditional female life, and I am not sure I wanted it like this. I know that I hit a lot of points of fear where I backed off, and a whole lot of circumstances. I realize how much caregiving I have done and continue to do, but going into the empty nest stage (okay one kid lives with me and I really like it, it would be lonely by myself) is a let down. If I changed one thing about raising my kids I would have not taken time off work. Even if all I did for a few years was pay for childcare I would have worked.

I am, on the daily, flabbergasted by how little attention parents pay to their kids. Seriously. I am just shocked at how little time parents actually put in with their kids.

I think you ought to be grateful to have been able to take time off work and stay home to parent your kids.

My dog, Harlan, gets more individualized attention and focus than the kids of my colleagues get.

These women work crazy hours. They are on the clock from 9am to midnight, by their own admission. They are working on projects, answering work emails, being late to their kids' birthday parties and doctor's appointments so they can work.

And I always come back to this: I spend more time with my dog than these parents do with their kids.

Why have kids if you don't want to be around them? Why have kids if you'd rather pay someone else to raise them?

[Zoe Girl]

UA, it is more about balance. I feel as unbalanced as I probably would if I went super high powered career. It has just been all about caregiving and not very much about using the other part of myself.

[Ultralight]

UA, it is more about balance. I feel as unbalanced as I probably would if I went super high powered career. It has just been all about caregiving and not very much about using the other part of myself.

What is the other part (or parts) of yourself?

Most people who have never had a kid are unaware of what it takes to raise a kid -- the time, the energy, the care, etc.

Really, it takes up a lot of those things. Can you just chalk it up to being unaware?

Which is why I have avoided it so far and been lucky when I was careless.

Here is the thing: What do you mean by balance?

How many years did you stay home with your kids? It takes at least 18 to raise them. So would nine years caring for them at home be balanced with nine years of having them institutionalized during your work days?

[JaneV2.0]

I regret not taking fuller advantage of my college years; I skated along, studying what was easy for me (mostly language arts); wish, wish, wish I had studied more math and science. Like you, wish I hadn't been so risk-averse--although that was how I (and most females then) were raised. (That said, I did take some risks--like the scary ;) non-traditional field, and moving to a city where I knew no one--just because. (Since this is Seattle, I still know no one--see the "Seattle freeze." :~)(

You're not too old to turn it around now, although I find that the older I get the less adventurous I become. You have to fight that.

[margene]

I"m kinda there right now too. Realizing I usually chose the safe road. The thing I regret is that I didn't just go with the flow but instead fought to keep things comfortable. Caregiving I never regret. I think it's one of the better female qualities not saying only females can do it. But I see that you have taken risks. Taking time off work to care for kids is a risk, getting divorced, changing careers.

[ApatheticNoMore]

How many years did you stay home with your kids? It takes at least 18 to raise them. So would nine years caring for them at home be balanced with nine years of having them institutionalized during your work days?

almost no teenager wants parents breathing down their neck anyway, it's against the natural process of being a teenager - so it's not really a full 18 years per kid. Time with kids matters but it's far from the only thing that matters as how good is a parent that deeply regrets giving up everything else for kids anyway, that's not balanced but unhappy, it's mostly emotional maturity of a sort that matters probably.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I can do without male dominated fields in many ways (compete, compete, compete, work long hours, show you are better than others etc.). Math I do wish I knew some more but mostly I'm interested in it as a tool to understand society, so basically I want to use math for sociology or something :~)

[Ultralight]

almost no teenager wants parents breathing down their neck anyway, it's against the natural process of being a teenager - so it's not really a full 18 years per kid. Time with kids matters but it's far from the only thing that matters as how good is a parent that deeply regrets giving up everything else for kids anyway, that's not balanced but unhappy, it's mostly emotional maturity of a sort that matters probably.

I fail to see how someone who works 9am to midnight every day is actually parenting at all.

[Teacher Terry]

My friends that did not stay home with their kids have double the pension I do but I don't regret taking that time when the kids were little. That part of my life I would not change if I had to do it again. I also spent years helping my Mom take care of my Dad and she took care of my boys a lot so I could get through college. I don't regret any of that or flying back home often to take care of my Mom when she needed it. She had 3 bouts of cancer between ages 78-90 but always recovered and was able to live on her own. I have one professional regret but who knows if things would have turned out the way I expected if I had taken that path. Life is all about making the best choices we can at the time. Also the more responsibilities we have the less able we are to take risks due to having to be able to take care of our kids, etc. Hugs:))

[JaneV2.0]

I can do without male dominated fields in many ways (compete, compete, compete, work long hours, show you are better than others etc.). Math I do wish I knew some more but mostly I'm interested in it as a tool to understand society, so basically I want to use math for sociology or something :~)

I was fortunate in that when I switched from female-dominated jobs to male-dominated, the pressure of being constantly monitored with many picky little rules essentially vanished. Of course there are always the go-getters who want to impress and move up, but there weren't many of those. Until the profit-at-all-costs eighties, my job wasn't bad--and it always paid adequately. But I wasn't in management and turned it down more than once. The money was a wash and the politics were of no interest to me.

[Gardenarian]

I don't think it is a middle-aged thing; it is as life thing.

Doesn't everyone have existential crises now and again?

I need to evaluate my life and set long-term goals on a regular basis.

My current goals are to improve my art and writing skills so I can make truly rewarding work; to strengthen my body and mind for the long haul; to become more adept at the skills I can share with my community (emergency training, permacuture, and others); and of course to support dd as she moves into full adulthood.
All these things require many small actions, many steps and secondary goals (drawing a picture every day, working out, meeting people, reading, taking classes, and so on.)

One of my teachers at ashram recommended that Americans not meditate too much. She said that it is at odds with our culture and can leave you feeling empty and lost. She thought chanting, moving meditation (walking, yoga, dance) more helpful for Americans, and said 10 minutes of meditation twice a day should be the limit.

[Gardenarian]

And a P.S.
As to being a SAHM, that should come with a medal of honor! try not to look back too much, you probably wouldn't have been doing calculus anyway.

I worked part-time from dd's birth; I just couldn't handle being home with a kid all the time. No day care; dh worked part-time too.

UA, I never wanted anyone else to bring up my little girl, but I needed to be my own person too. And I couldn't do that AND be mommy 24/7. Unless it is your true calling (and I expect even then) it demands enormous sacrifice, usually from the mom. Luckily my husband was (and is) a true co-parent. We homeschooled till she was 15, and I'll always be grateful for that choice.

[Zoe Girl]

Yes, BTW that comment about institutionalizing kids. Well my career is before/after school care and summer camps. We rock! No joke, even on a national scale our programs are excellent. My summer camp had kids who didn't all need it for childcare but who wouldn't want to come dissect an owl pellet with other kids. I think my kids would have been better socialized with some more programs and high quality care by someone other than me. Kids who spend a lot of time with us and at school, who are with us both before and after long days, are still their parents' kids. You can see the personality and the influence of the family. I don't have any parents who work until midnight however. I think kids develop their own identities and that is part of a group effort, not just parents.

What I have noticed with a few of my friends who are really honest with me, is that those of us who had really tough teenager years have a hard time looking back at parenting as positively. I would still have some empty nest stuff but I didn't go to their sporting events or deal with lots of activities, we went to counselors, truancy meetings, and every day was a battle at times. Thank goodness I was working then! It saved my sanity to have other things to do. I have moments when I recall the struggle, but all my kids are pretty great people right now. I do see however that all those years at home did not prevent mental illness and difficult teenage years,

I do think it is a middle age angsty thing also, I feel much better today now that work is getting less of a limbo. I have an assistant so I can do more work on the math side of it all, budget and plans. Also data is a lot of fun, so I will be looking for ways to develop that.

[LDAHL]

As I have reached the “mostly over” stage of life, here is what I’ve come to believe.

People are not bees. Nobody is born to fill a particular role that will make them happy and fulfilled. Compromise and balance are more important than a single-minded, damn-the-consequences rush toward what you believe is the one thing that will make you happy. It tends to change over time anyway. When the 50-something version of me compares notes with the 20-something version, he’s glad 20-something is no longer in charge.

Your life is basically a DIY project. Even if your parents, teachers, society, etc., didn’t give you the support you feel you deserved, you are responsible for the final product.

Sunk costs are irrelevant. Regret is unproductive in planning out the balance of your life. Spilt milk and all that.

Hollywood and cheesy novels notwithstanding, big gambles seldom pay off. That’s what makes them big gambles. I’m not sure “fearful and limited” isn’t generally the better path in most situations.

Money is important. It’s not the most important thing, but it can make a lot of things possible. Grinding away at work you don’t necessarily love may seem unromantic and even a bit cowardly, but if the result is a measure of security for the people you care about, I think there are worse ways to spend your time. Each of us has his own point of diminishing returns in that respect, however.