View Full Version : The choice at work
Ultralight
8-18-16, 5:17pm
We were informed today that a job is needed in our department. But they are not going to hire someone for it.
We have known this job was coming up for "bid" for several months. Everyone knows that this job will be horrible. The bosses are mean and petty and demanding (our own boss even told us this). The tasks are arduous. The position is not a promotion and it is technically a lateral move but with worse work and worse bosses.
So my boss told us in a meeting that if one of us does not volunteer for the position then they will lay one of us off and hire a new person.
No one wants to take on this job.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/trolley_problem.png
Teacher Terry
8-18-16, 5:28pm
What a horrible position to be in.
ApatheticNoMore
8-18-16, 5:43pm
If it's a temporary task they should hire a contractor. There might be some ability to counter negotiate (they are desperate afterall - have to be to be acting like that), ie make an offer "I'll take it but give me a raise", but it might still not be worth it. Sure they could punish for that if they are vengeful, but the fools are probably going to spend more finding a replacement and paying unemployment for doing layoffs than they would by offering a raise.
Ultralight
8-18-16, 5:50pm
It is not temporary. It is non-negotiable.
Ultralight
8-18-16, 5:52pm
They also just demoted someone. So that position is open too.
But it is also horrible and no one wants to apply for it. They want to hire someone totally new anyway for that one.
Chicken lady
8-18-16, 6:14pm
So, you're saying that you have a job you don't like, and you have to chose between taking a worse job at the same pay or taking a risk of collecting unemployment while looking for a better job?
(Edited to add: 45 years ago, my dad picked get fired. Metaphorically he pissed his way out of the building and threw a match as he left. When he got home and told my mom, she told him my brother was on the way. So, maybe don't do that.)
iris lilies
8-18-16, 7:20pm
Would you be busy 8 hours day? Would new skills need to be developed that could be parlayed into something else? Is it a position that is non-exempt, i.e. you work 40 hours and any more, overtime is paid?
How accurate is the information that the job is "horrible" with "mean and nasty" bosses?
Are all of these mean, nasty bosses women?
ApatheticNoMore
8-18-16, 8:08pm
I guess I took it for granted no useful skills would be learned, otherwise it wouldn't be a "bad" job and have no takers probably. People really do want to learn useful things of course.
sounds like a weird position to be in, I guess I don't fully understand it of course. So someone needs to take this job but they are leaving it up to you as co-workers to see who will take it, if you can't work that out then someone loses their job? Where are the managers in this? It seems that this is messed up not just because everyone knows it is a horrible job but because the leadership has told you it is horrible and then stepped out knowing someone could lose their job.
Just messed up way to handle it
ApatheticNoMore
8-18-16, 9:19pm
Oh it sounds completely nuts. Ok the reasoning from their end is probably: we don't need everyone who is working their existing jobs to work them as there isn't really enough work to go around. And we don't want to hire yet another employee when the existing employees are twiddling their thumbs part of the time. That makes sense.
But the end result is they have created some kind of sadistic game theorists situation where everyone has a little fear of losing their job, but one person would have to take on the full sacrifice so that someone which might be them or might not won't lose their job. It is game playing in multiple senses at that point.
So given what they want and what kind of beyond weird workplace situation their choice of tactics has created what should have been done? Probably sweeten the pot, give a significant raise for taking the position, make the position more desirable if at all possible (with pay if nothing else can be done to improve it), and for heaven sakes don't badmouth the managers, use a carrot not a stick. The problem is while a for profit business could do this (and it is cheaper than bringing on a whole new person), government pay scales may be far more tightly constrained.
Seems like if this scenario is true, anyone else they hire isn't going to stay long so the bosses threat seems pretty empty if they really need the job done.
What if the current employees can rotate in and out of the "horrible" job - maybe one week doing that work and then x weeks back in their regular position? That way there's limited exposure to the horribleness and everyone keeps their position.
Simplemind
8-19-16, 12:48am
This is a management problem. Too bad it seems like you don't have a true manager.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 6:57am
Would you be busy 8 hours day? Would new skills need to be developed that could be parlayed into something else? Is it a position that is non-exempt, i.e. you work 40 hours and any more, overtime is paid?
How accurate is the information that the job is "horrible" with "mean and nasty" bosses?
Are all of these mean, nasty bosses women?
My boss was the last person to work this job before her promotion. She has talked at length about how bad it was -- the volume of work, working nights and weekends, the super short deadlines, the rude and inconsiderate "customers" and so on. This says a lot coming from her.
No new skills, unless being a better punching bag is one.
No overtime, at least officially. No increase in salary.
No, the bosses are both women and men -- these folks are somehow both customers and bosses.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 6:59am
sounds like a weird position to be in, I guess I don't fully understand it of course. So someone needs to take this job but they are leaving it up to you as co-workers to see who will take it, if you can't work that out then someone loses their job? Where are the managers in this? It seems that this is messed up not just because everyone knows it is a horrible job but because the leadership has told you it is horrible and then stepped out knowing someone could lose their job.
Just messed up way to handle it
The managers... where are they you ask? Well, the person who told us of this "choice" is a manager. She and the people above her came up with this whole plan.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 7:01am
Oh it sounds completely nuts. Ok the reasoning from their end is probably: we don't need everyone who is working their existing jobs to work them as there isn't really enough work to go around. And we don't want to hire yet another employee when the existing employees are twiddling their thumbs part of the time. That makes sense.
Actually we have been overwhelmed with work since the reorganization about ten months ago. My boss has said this (and I quote): "We are drowning in assignments, just drowning in work."
My boss was the last person to work this job before her promotion. She has talked at length about how bad it was -- the volume of work, working nights and weekends, the super short deadlines, the rude and inconsiderate "customers" and so on. This says a lot coming from her.
No new skills, unless being a better punching bag is one.
No overtime, at least officially. No increase in salary.
No, the bosses are both women and men -- these folks are somehow both customers and bosses.
So being both customers and bosses, it sounds like it is internal support position?
I got a great book, Working With You is Killing Me, and it saved my career in some ways. So if you get put in this job I would check it out. I loaned it out right now.
So my boss told us in a meeting that if one of us does not volunteer for the position then they will lay one of us off and hire a new person.
Did they put that in writing? I'm not an expert on Labor Law, but that kind of threat sounds illegal-ish to me.
catherine
8-19-16, 10:17am
UA, what is keeping you from looking for another job? I don't know where you live, but even if it takes you a year or two to get something else, why not look for something better? In some situations, I'd advise looking at your job differently (i.e., choose a different attitude), but your job does seem oppressive. (Plus, you haven't ever seemed to enjoy it) So, I would say update your resume. You have nothing holding you back from doing that--you have no family responsibilities that tie you there.. just a student loan, basically, so why not "go shopping"?
Ultralight
8-19-16, 10:44am
I am applying to other jobs, and have gotten serious about it over the past couple months.
Some are for major change type jobs -- very different than what I do now.
So I have a few good leads.
But it can be tough out there.
And, worth noting:
IRL I come off pretty charismatic and I can usually clinch a gig with a phone interview or definitely in person.
Miss Cellane
8-19-16, 10:47am
I'm kind of in awe of a management style that recognizes a job is so awful that no one would possibly want to take it, and instead of reconfiguring the job, threatens to fire people over it.
Really, you should post this over at Ask an Manager, and get her take on this. http://www.askamanager.org/ It's not bad enough to be in the running for Worst Boss of the Year, but it isn't far away from that.
ApatheticNoMore
8-19-16, 11:25am
Well there is no reason for the manager not to at least post a job ad looking for a new person to fill the role? Think noone will take it. Oh in this job market they'll get resumes, have no doubt.
I think 2 years of hard job searching is probably realistic to find a new job. I've been looking on and off for over two years, but on and off might be why nothing (sure I've gone to interviews). But I'm not charismatic, I'm introverted which is the polar opposite of charismatic, hence I'm of no real use in this society anyway and I know it.
Ok the reasoning from their end is probably: we don't need everyone who is working their existing jobs to work them as there isn't really enough work to go around. And we don't want to hire yet another employee when the existing employees are twiddling their thumbs part of the time. That makes sense.
You think perhaps they've noticed how many of their employees spend half their work day trolling Internet discussion forums?
iris lilies
8-19-16, 12:41pm
You think perhaps they've noticed how many of their employees spend half their work day trolling Internet discussion forums?
Well, that was the elephant in the room. Leave it to an unrelenting capitalist to point it out. :)
Well, that was the elephant in the room. Leave it to an unrelenting capitalist to point it out. :)
Yes, I'm only surprised it didn't happen until page 3.
You think perhaps they've noticed how many of their employees spend half their work day trolling Internet discussion forums?
That couldn't be it. It was clearly stated a few posts back , "We are drowning in assignments, just drowning in work." There must be a disconnect somewhere.
ApatheticNoMore
8-19-16, 1:43pm
You think perhaps they've noticed how many of their employees spend half their work day trolling Internet discussion forums?
well he says he's one of the better and more productive employees at his workplace, and I have no huge reason to disbelieve this, so yea I kind of figured it was one of those workplaces where there was a fair amount of downtime, he's also said there is previously I believe.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 2:23pm
There was downtime. Now there is not. There was a restructure about 10 months ago. Our staff was cut in half. The other half was diverted to another department.
I am considered a most productive and "contributing" member of the staff. My metrics show this. They are currently the highest.
Also: When a senior-most staffer was demoted a few weeks ago I was given the majority of her work, which is considered to be some of the most important.
So I am no slouch here.
It just happens to only take a few seconds to post on here.
So ease up on the holier than thou stuff folks!
So ease up on the holier than thou stuff folks!Would your atheist support group approve of that kind of talk?
Ultralight
8-19-16, 2:34pm
Would your atheist support group approve of that kind of talk?
lol!
So I am no slouch here.
Sounds like your seat on the raft is dry then, and you should have no worries.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 2:59pm
Sounds like your seat on the raft is dry then, and you should have no worries.
That is possible. But it is important to note that I question things here. I question policies and procedures. I suggest different and alternative ideas for these things. I "manage up" and this is frowned upon. I am considered a problem in this regard.
I suggest different and alternative ideas for these things. I "manage up" and this is frowned upon. I am considered a problem in this regard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7GUjKv9qSI
That video explains exactly why my old alma mater stuck to their guns in the 70s to keep it a women's college when every other college was going co-ed. The motto was "We separate the women from the boys." And they had a point--we women were allowed to voice our opinions often and regularly with out any "mansplaining."
Unfortunately their strategy failed, so the 'boys" at Fordham University, which bought the college a few years back, closed the college. That shut our mouths.
frugal-one
8-19-16, 3:44pm
Did they put that in writing? I'm not an expert on Labor Law, but that kind of threat sounds illegal-ish to me.
if an "at will employment" state..... At-will means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 4:53pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7GUjKv9qSI
You have got to be kidding.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 4:56pm
Regarding policies and procedures that I have concerns about I simply ask things like "why?"
After some time of that my boss asked me to follow up with suggestions. So I started doing that.
She probably got more than she bargained for but...
But then I think beyond her the other bosses are not okay with this. They want "yes men" and "cheerleaders."
Regarding policies and procedures that I have concerns about I simply ask things like "why?"
After some time of that my boss asked me to follow up with suggestions. So I started doing that.
She probably got more than she bargained for but...
But then I think beyond her the other bosses are not okay with this. They want "yes men" and "cheerleaders."
If you know that, and you have no real interest in the job, why not just dummy up?
If you happen to be let go, you'll get unemployment--is it two years now?--and be able to spend more time looking for work and maybe honing new skills. And, most importantly, you'll be out of what you consider an oppressive environment. It sounds like a "can't lose" situation to me.
Ultralight
8-19-16, 5:26pm
If you know that, and you have no real interest in the job, why not just dummy up?
If you happen to be let go, you'll get unemployment--is it two years now?--and be able to spend more time looking for work and maybe honing new skills. And, most importantly, you'll be out of what you consider an oppressive environment. It sounds like a "can't lose" situation to me.
Dummying up is my plan. Though it goes against my very nature.
iris lilies
8-19-16, 7:29pm
If you know that, and you have no real interest in the job, why not just dummy up?
If you happen to be let go, you'll get unemployment--is it two years now?--and be able to spend more time looking for work and maybe honing new skills. And, most importantly, you'll be out of what you consider an oppressive environment. It sounds like a "can't lose" situation to me.can he meet rent and dogfood bills on unemployment payments?
If not, I'm sure his sister and BIL will let him bunk in the garage until he finds another job.
ApatheticNoMore
8-19-16, 7:48pm
my first thought about unemployment is "it doesn't pay the rent" (not on a studio apartment), that's what I remember about it, a months payments don't even pay a months rent so forget about any other bills (but it's better than nothing), and that was years ago, it's probably worse now.
Miss Cellane
8-19-16, 8:34pm
I think unemployment is for 26 weeks, unless UA's state has some extra money somewhere. The extended benefits were cancelled a few years back.
why are they not offering some kind of incentive for this job? If it is really that bad?
Ultralight
8-23-16, 10:33am
Incentives? LOL
That is so old fashioned.
iris lilies
9-23-16, 10:06pm
Incentives? LOL
That is so old fashioned.
so what is happening with this situation?
freshstart
9-24-16, 12:13pm
don't you get student loan repayment where you are? I would take that into consideration and probably dummy up and keep up my metrics. Just til that's re-paid, of course.
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