View Full Version : Politically correct descriptions of perps
iris lilies
8-23-16, 5:54pm
http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/08/23/490950267/social-network-nextdoor-moves-to-block-racial-profiling-online
This npr article tells how Nextdoor, the web system that supports online communication in neighborhoods, is working to shape communications about crime so that they do not offend.
For those of you who dont know Nextdoor, it is a system where each poster is verified and invited by someone in their neighborhood. There are no anonymous accounts. Each person who posts has his first and last names and his street name appear by his posts.
So Nextdoor is workng on an algorithm to address " racial profiling" when posters give crime reports. Mentioning the race of the perp up front has always been a problem in my land of left leaning neighbors, so after watching several neighbors be castigated by social justice keyboard warriors for failng to list descriptors in the correct order required by the politically sensitive, I learned the lingo.
This is incorrect:
Neighbors, beware of two black youth who are walking West on Carroll Street. They are peering into cars. One has a red shirt, the other is wearing a grey sweatshirt. Both are around 15- 18 years old. I have called 911 to report.
This is correct:
Neighbors, beware of two youth who are walking West on Carroll Street. they are peering into cars. One has a red shirt, the other is wearing a grey sweatshirt. Both are around 15-18 yers old. They are black. I have called 911 for police to come and check out this situation which may be benign or may be a problem.
But guess what, two black youth peering into automobiles is a problem, it is never benign. They are looking for items of obvious value. So many neighbors get ramped up about watching and reporting problematic activity! Jesus Joseph Mary, the cops arent going to arrest anyone, they will (if they even get here in a timely way, which is doubtful) make inquiry as to what the kids are doing. Kids will learn "when we think about clouting a car on this street someone is watching us and calling the cops." Win.
Ultralight
8-23-16, 8:41pm
Could be two drunk college kids who accidentally left their cell phones in a car they are having trouble finding in order to call the DD at their frat.
Iris, your neighbors are calm compared to San Francisco. Someone here actually posted on nextdoor that people shouldn't be calling bike thieves criminals. After all, it shows a lack of sensitivity, doncha know? I realize I lean pretty far left but, man, even I don't get this one.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Political-correctness-San-Francisco-criminal-6598509.php
iris lilies
8-23-16, 9:10pm
Could be two drunk college kids who accidentally left their cell phones in a car they are having trouble finding in order to call the DD at their frat.
In my neighborhood you have to play the odds.
The odds of what you describe are 100:1 unless it is Mardi Gras week when the odds change to 5:1.
I once offered to drive a kid around the neighborhood the next morning after the Mardi Gras bender to help him find his car. He was too embarassed, but now i wish I would have insisted.
But whatever the activity, cops will sort it out.
iris lilies
8-24-16, 2:53am
Iris, your neighbors are calm compared to San Francisco. Someone here actually posted on nextdoor that people shouldn't be calling bike thieves criminals. After all, it shows a lack of sensitivity, doncha know? I realize I lean pretty far left but, man, even I don't get this one.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Political-correctness-San-Francisco-criminal-6598509.php
How I Love the Cyrils of the world on Nextdoor. Not. She is ridiculous.
I find it fascinating that some on our Next Door system will complain about security pictures or video footage being posted because it is not totally crystal clear. It at least let others make their own decisions. And it is amazing to me the number of cameras in our close neighborhoods that are getting info for the police.
We also had the sort saying we should understand the "criminals" and that they came from a bad background. Really? No one knows the background but the acts are still criminal.
It bugs me when our local news stations don't give the "color" of the perps. Many times, if they are white, they will say white, but they seem to intentionally avoid saying "black". To me, it's the easiest way to differentiate a possible suspect, if you're trying to be aware of them. It would be like saying someone stole a child in a car and they won't give out the color of the car. Giving the skin color seems to be a very quick way to zero in on who you're looking for.
Being PC is getting ridiculous. I think the news people think it will prevent blacks from objecting to their saying that. Why else would they omit that, if they usually give the color for white perps? And placing their color further down in the description, to me, is silly. I would want the most visually important info first.......not all the other stuff being reported, in order to avoid saying Black.
It bugs me when our local news stations don't give the "color" of the perps. Many times, if they are white, they will say white, but they seem to intentionally avoid saying "black". To me, it's the easiest way to differentiate a possible suspect, if you're trying to be aware of them. It would be like saying someone stole a child in a car and they won't give out the color of the car. Giving the skin color seems to be a very quick way to zero in on who you're looking for.
Being PC is getting ridiculous. I think the news people think it will prevent blacks from objecting to their saying that. Why else would they omit that, if they usually give the color for white perps? And placing their color further down in the description, to me, is silly. I would want the most visually important info first.......not all the other stuff being reported, in order to avoid saying Black.
I guess it depends on how you look at it - another way to look at it is that they aren't saying "black perps" because they are projecting it as the assumed default, while "white perps" is used because they want to project it as something more unique.
iris lilies
8-24-16, 2:07pm
I guess it depends on how you look at it - another way to look at it is that they aren't saying "black perps" because they are projecting it as the assumed default, while "white perps" is used because they want to project it as something more unique.
Some years ago I was outside observing cops who were trying to apprehend a perp. The cop called in his description as "medium skin tone" and etc such as 5'9" red shirt etc.
I thought to myself, what, are we assuming he is a black man? There is a lot of difference between Caucasian medium skin tone and African AMerican medium skin tone.
But in reality, it is a bit of a relief here when we have white perps. They arent common. There is a truckload of white suspects driving around alleys stealing tools this week. For a moment we get to step,away from the constant dance of appropriate race-speak.
As for terminology, I remember how bent out of shape Loosechickens got when I used the term "perp." She couldnt stand it and always responded withi a story about some relative of hers who was incarcerated for a white collar crime blah blah blah and how disrespectul that term is. So I try to make an effort to use it often. :) Another Cyril.
"Alleged perp," to be fair. ;)
Assuming no trial yet.
"Alleged perp," to be fair. ;)
Assuming no trial yet.
True - in the courts you're innocent until proven guilty. But on the street it's usually the opposite.
As for terminology, I remember how bent out of shape Loosechickens got when I used the term "perp." She couldnt stand it and always responded withi a story about some relative of hers who was incarcerated for a white collar crime blah blah blah and how disrespectul that term is. So I try to make an effort to use it often. :) Another Cyril.
I miss Loosechickens even though I used to get banned every time I responded to one of her posts. She's the only person I've ever known to single handedly turn a liberal into a conservative using nothing more than her online rants. Remember Ketchup Is A Vegetable?
Ultralight
8-24-16, 8:47pm
...I used to get banned ...
I heard this about you through the rumor mill! ;)
I heard this about you through the rumor mill! ;)
You're mis-characterizing your mill, it wasn't a rumor. There's at least a couple of us around who were banned a time or two, or twelve. Just goes to show the value of persistence. :cool:
There's at least a couple of us around who were banned a time or two, or twelve.
I used to get banned just for logging in.
Clearly I need to up my game. I've never been banned.
Simplemind
8-24-16, 9:50pm
I love Nextdoor. Our city has a huge homeless problem and there is a greenspace where hundreds have been camping. As time has gone by they have been coming into the neighborhoods and causing issues. We calls 'em as we see 'em. A couple of my neighbors have found squatters in their garden sheds. Some have taken to rousting camps and stealing their stuff back. Every day is something new.
Chicken lady
8-24-16, 9:51pm
My grandfather was very aware of the prejudices of his up bringing, and tried very hard to overcome them. As part of this, he always said "black gentleman" instead of "black man" (black was the preferred term at the time). Once he was telling my father that a "black gentleman" robbed the corner store, and I pointed out that anyone who robs a store is not a gentleman. My father said "maybe he robbed it very politely."
My father said "maybe he robbed it very politely."
I'm reminded of something that recently flowed across my facebook feed. It was a note, left on the windshield of a parked car that the writer of it had just hit. it said something to the effect of "I'm leaving this note because there's someone watching me to make sure I leave a note. Not gonna leave my insurance info because i missed the payment. Sorry about your car."
Maybe there should be an app to download to tell what is acceptable. I noticed somewhere that a news reporter was castigated for using the word negro, which is apparently incorrect? Black seems to be acceptable and African American is better? Mexican is out and Hispanic is in, which is probably more accurate anyway since so many immigrants are coming from central American. I used the word Oriental the other day and was corrected with something I can't remember. Native American is OK, American Indian is OK, but Indian is not? For us whities, I find Caucasian boring and possibly inaccurate. Honky is a little too strong, although gringo might be OK with me. White American might be what I would insist on when we become a minority.
White American might be what I would insist on when we become a minority.I've never understood why racial descriptors were necessary for everyday use. American would work for me.
I've never understood why racial descriptors were necessary for everyday use. American would work for me.
Sometimes when I get that question on forms I fill in "Mongrel".
This thread reminds me of an incident I heard about listening to the NJ radio station last spring.. I was able to find a link to it--the radio show question was "Was this couple racist, or was this mail lady overreacting?"
http://nj1015.com/was-this-couple-racist-was-this-mail-lady-overreacting-watch/
Chicken lady
8-25-16, 9:48am
I like "grade" it's a quality dairy goat of uncertain heritage. The quality part being required for the designation.
so it's "grade, whatever it most looks like" as in "grade honky". Alternately I might go with "whole grain cracker." As a fairly accurate description.
when giving a visual description, it would seem to make sense to start with the descriptors that differentiate the most. So, gender if apparent - eliminates about half the people, approximate age and size, eliminates a lot more, and then perhaps skin, hair, and eye color - unlikely to change. However, if we are in a high school for example, where the majority are the race of the descriptee, the red shirt is much more important because it jumps out. Male, red shirt, approx height, hair cut, skin tone.
although I remember reading an article by a security person who said almost every lost in a crowd child description starts with "(s)he was wearing a red shirt". I always made my kids wear their homeschool shirts in situations like that, and I wore mine, so I'd be able to say "he's wearing this shirt."
I've never understood why racial descriptors were necessary for everyday use. American would work for me.
Probably works in a lot of cases, but if you are wishing to describe a person to help identify them or distinguish them in a crowd, physical features are helpful and race is typically a physical feature as much as maybe what a person is wearing or how tall or short they are. In some cases it might be the most obvious and easiest feature to recognize.
Chicken lady
8-25-16, 9:58am
My reaction to that video is "why do people need to yell at each other?"
if there was a randomly repeating cast of mail carriers and she was the only one who was both black and female, I can see saying "black mail lady". I have been known to tell my dh "the mail lady was a guy today." As ours is normally one of two women. (The mail lady and the young mail lady) maybe I'm sexist or ageist.
We, here in the melting pot, have to do so many verbal contortions to make everyone appear the same. People come to the U.S. in order to have rights.......to be themselves. Then everybody starts complaining because they are pointed out as different. Then we have to do all sorts of funky things to deny that there are differences. My head is spinning.
ToomuchStuff
8-25-16, 12:08pm
Years ago, when I was a kid, everybody took some debate (middle school). One of the suggestions was to read a book called, Get your Point across in 30 seconds or less. That was to show kids what a summery should be, and then the arguments to back it up would follow.
That is also the way the LEO's I know, talk into their radio's and describe suspects. Situation, summary, eyes out.
Don't expect me to be politically correct, but efficient.
Years ago, when I was a kid, everybody took some debate (middle school). One of the suggestions was to read a book called, Get your Point across in 30 seconds or less. That was to show kids what a summery should be, and then the arguments to back it up would follow.
That is also the way the LEO's I know, talk into their radio's and describe suspects. Situation, summary, eyes out.
Don't expect me to be politically correct, but efficient.
I listen to police scanners occasionally (Broadcastify.com), and in the locations I listen to the dispatchers and officers provide as full a description as possible, complete with race, height, weight, visible tattoos, mental state (if known), clothing...The more, the better I would presume.
I listen to police scanners occasionally (Broadcastify.com), and in the locations I listen to the dispatchers and officers provide as full a description as possible, complete with race, height, weight, visible tattoos, mental state (if known), clothing...The more, the better I would presume.
Yes, when discussing suspected perpetrators it would probably not be especially effective to say "two perps, most likely American, are heading north on Main Street."
But getting back to the side topic, personally I figure it's easiest and politest to just call people whatever they'd like to be called. It doesn't seem like it should really be my place to tell people what they ought to be called.
iris lilies
8-25-16, 3:02pm
Yes, when discussing suspected perpetrators it would probably not be especially effective to say "two perps, most likely American, are heading north on Main Street."
But getting back to the side topic, personally I figure it's easiest and politest to just call people whatever they'd like to be called. It doesn't seem like it should really be my place to tell people what they ought to be called.
There is no monolithic "they" to determine what each group wants. That is part of the problem.
but the best I can do is pay some attention to the loud activists, try to remember the term of the day that they insist shows the most respect, and move on with me life. Any request for "dialog" and the like is something I ignore, having already spent my alloted time and attention on using correct terminoloyg.
Victims and their-ology get limited time in my head space.
iris lilies
9-11-16, 2:36pm
This thread reminds me of an incident I heard about listening to the NJ radio station last spring.. I was able to find a link to it--the radio show question was "Was this couple racist, or was this mail lady overreacting?"
http://nj1015.com/was-this-couple-racist-was-this-mail-lady-overreacting-watch/
i didnt watch the entire thing, all parties are acting like boors.
We had a fabulous and wonderful postman for 27 years who was black.Ironically, his name was Mr. White. We usually referred to hm as "Gary" because we knew his name, but most people arent going to know the name of their mail carrier in this area necause they switch them around.
It being the Post Office, he had scads of time off so we would often have substitutes. The majority of the subs were black.I suppose if we had subs of varying races and DH and I needed to converse about who was delivering at the moment, we would probably say "the black mail lady" but we would also have said "the white mail lady" if we had one.
iris lilies
9-11-16, 2:47pm
I finshd watching the video. I think the screaming couple were far more out of line than the mail lady. If a black person tells me "calling me black is racist" I would take her word for it that it is racist, to her. No point in arguing about what is her own definition of racist.
And I do think she is right that the incident that started this exchange (apparently) should have been avoided. The man of the household said "The black mail lady is afraid of our dogs" when he could have easily said "the mail man is afraid of our dogs."
freshstart
9-11-16, 4:16pm
I had to laugh, with my new progressives I read this as "politically correct descriptions of oreos". I was all "what????"
I finshd watching the video. I think the screaming couple were far more out of line than the mail lady. If a black person tells me "calling me black is racist" I would take her word for it that it is racist, to her. No point in arguing about what is her own definition of racist.
And I do think she is right that the incident that started this exchange (apparently) should have been avoided. The man of the household said "The black mail lady is afraid of our dogs" when he could have easily said "the mail man is afraid of our dogs."
Yeah, I net out on this incident the same as you did. Also, it makes me ashamed to say I'm from NJ, because their boisterous, loud NJ accents punctuating really bad behavior are really annoying.
On another note, I can't remember the thread where you mentioned you were reading Hillbilly Elegy, but I just got it for my kindle. Looks fascinating.
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