Death of a friend...

[Ultralight]

Yesterday a friend of mine committed suicide.

He had been depressed for years and years and "decided to check out of this life."

Talking to his wife, his family, and his friends about this in the upcoming days and at the funeral will be difficult navigation.

He was open about wanting to check out. His wife was a supporter of doctor-assisted suicide (for his sake).

His father is deeply Catholic but he was Atheist, as is his widow.

[Chicken lady]

I'm sorry Ultralite, will it be a secular funeral?

may I suggest some honest responses to religious comments from family such as "statement of how friend mattered to you, thing you liked about him", or "I'm glad your faith brings you comfort"

will your gf come to the funeral with you?

[razz]

My condolences to you, UA. What did you love about your friend? Focus on that both with your own thoughts and in conversation with others. For the rest of it, listening is the most important gift that you can give. We cannot know what drives the actions or decisions of others and have a full-time job dealing with our own. I have always found that commenting, speculating or judging or whatever else some do at such times to be counter-productive but YMMV.

[nswef]

I'm sorry UL. It's such an awful time for everyone....I agree with Razz that listening works best.

[KayLR]

My condolences to you and your friends, UA...it's so tragic when someone suffers so much they cannot bear to go on. Some good advice above.

[catherine]

I'm very sorry for your loss, UA.

[CathyA]

So sorry UL.....but it appears that it was choice he had been leaning to for awhile. I guess we have to let people choose, even if it's so sad to us.
I agree about what others have said. If someone says something "religious" to you, just nod and let it go. A funeral is no place for arguments about beliefs.
It makes me sad that some people are so depressed for so long, and haven't been able to find reason to go on. :(

[Ultralight]

The thing is that he may have wanted people to call BS on religious stuff at his funeral. He and his wife were both atheists -- he was very active and went to conferences and hosted meetings and so forth.

[Chicken lady]

The thing about "may have", is the uncertainty. If it were my friend, unless he left written instructions or spoke to me personally, I'd err on the side of kindness. Ymmv.

also, you don't have to agree with a persons beliefs to be glad they give that person comfort, you only have to care about the person.

[catherine]

The thing is that he may have wanted people to call BS on religious stuff at his funeral. He and his wife were both atheists -- he was very active and went to conferences and hosted meetings and so forth.

Remember that funerals are for the living. It will be up to his dad and wife to navigate those murky waters.

[Ultralight]

I have no intention to overstep my bounds. But he was a "firebrand" atheist. We shared much in our atheistic righteous indignation.

My plan though, is to follow his wife's lead. If she says to shut down the Jesus talk, I will. If she says "who cares" and to let it go, I will. My main intention is to try to support her through this tough time and to just gather with our circle of friends to remember and perhaps grieve.

[iris lilies]

This is a hard thing, sorry to hear it.

How old was he? What was his method of suicide?

[Ultralight]

He was 48. No idea how he did it, I just hope it was quick and painless.

[beckyliz]

My condolences, UltraliteAngler.

[rosarugosa]

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend, UA. I share your beliefs (or lack thereof) and I would find it challenging to shut up and be pleasant under those circumstances as well.

[Lainey]

This is tough, I can only imagine the pain that person was in, and also the pain of losing someone to suicide. I've had one relative in their 40s who basically committed suicide by alcoholism, but that's not how it reads on their death certificate of course.
I'm glad you will be able to support the widow in however she decides she would like things to go.

[Ultralight]

This is tough, I can only imagine the pain that person was in, and also the pain of losing someone to suicide. I've had one relative in their 40s who basically committed suicide by alcoholism, but that's not how it reads on their death certificate of course.
I'm glad you will be able to support the widow in however she decides she would like things to go.

So my friend's family (mom, siblings, etc.) took over the whole wake/celebration of life. They are making it a Christian memorial service. There will be a man of cloth there, plenty of prayers, and blessings.

[Chicken lady]

When my friend's partner died (in Ohio, which had just passed this great constitutional amendment that said we don't care what paperwork you have, if you're not married you aren't family) his catholic birth family took over the service. Their 17 y.o. son (we'll call him John.) had to take his grandmother to court to get the body cremated and returned to him as his father had directed instead of buried in consecrated ground. When the ashes came back, his family of choice had a second memorial around a big fire in his yard. So, something like that is always an option.

My son was part of the human wall of young men that surrounded John at the religious service so he didn't have to speak to anyone except by his choice. Hopefully you can be part of your widowed friend's wall.

[Ultralight]

The widow is not going to the service. None of his friends will go either.

[iris lilies]

The widow is not going to the service. None of his friends will go either.
Well, my dad always said that these sevices for the dead are actually for the living. Its too bad that there appears to be conflict between the dead man's family and his widow.

You can always hold your own memorial event. Probably you are going to do that.

[jp1]

So sorry for your loss. As a fellow athiest I can only assume that his pain, whatever the cause, is finally over. Even though you may not agree with the family's choice of service, as others have said, funerals are for the living. His family may not understand his athiesm, but that doesn't mean they didn't love him and won't grieve the loss of him. They're not doing this to spite him, they're doing this to help themselves get through their grief. That said, hopefully you and his friends will have your own memorial event to remember him in a way that is better suited to your understanding of him and which will be more helpful to all of you in dealing with this loss. There's no rule that says there can only be one memorial event when someone dies. Sometimes one size fits all just doesn't work.

[Simplemind]

It is sad to see his circle fractured over his death. Everybody grieves in their own way and his widow must be taking the road of least resistance. I hope at a later time those of you who knew his heart will gather and honor him in the way he would have wanted. Death brings out the best and worst in people. Suicide put a whole other layer on it.
I am very sorry about the loss of your friend. So many questions and so few answers. I'm glad his widow has you in her corner.

[Kestra]

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. It's very sad for all involved. I hope those of you who wish to have a non-religious memorial are able to do so.

[Ultralight]

Well, my dad always said that these sevices for the dead are actually for the living. Its too bad that there appears to be conflict between the dead man's family and his widow.

You can always hold your own memorial event. Probably you are going to do that.

The atheist community will hold its own memorial/celebration of life. The widow and a couple of her atheist friends are coordinating it. I plan to help set-up and take-down. She apparently invited the family to this event, but I doubt they will attend because of its decidedly atheist tone. They will have also already held their religious memorial. I think she invited them to "take the high road."

[Ultralight]

So sorry for your loss. As a fellow athiest I can only assume that his pain, whatever the cause, is finally over. Even though you may not agree with the family's choice of service, as others have said, funerals are for the living. His family may not understand his athiesm, but that doesn't mean they didn't love him and won't grieve the loss of him. They're not doing this to spite him, they're doing this to help themselves get through their grief. That said, hopefully you and his friends will have your own memorial event to remember him in a way that is better suited to your understanding of him and which will be more helpful to all of you in dealing with this loss. There's no rule that says there can only be one memorial event when someone dies. Sometimes one size fits all just doesn't work.

I appreciate you saying this.

[Rogar]

My condolences. I have a friend who has been in chronic pain for years and at very low points has touched on the subject. I don't think any of us can imagine what long term mental or physical pain can be like, and there is no right or wrong judgement. I am not a subscriber to the passage saying the Lord will not deal out pain and suffering that we are incapable of handling.

[iris lilies]

I remember calling around to have people speak at my father's funeral. One man we approached, his former boss and retired principle of a school, said he would be glad to do so but understand that he gives a religious talk. Whoah. Since thats not what we had in mind and I didnt even know the guy was a Jesus guy, I declined. And it is great that he was so clear, that helped us avoid a not so great experience..

we ended up getting my mother's rabbi to talk and I dont remember much religious stuff,but it was probably there since he WAS a rabbi.

[catherine]

Yeah, honoring that line between what the deceased would have wanted and what the survivors need is not always easy. My MIL had been a very long-term member of a Presbyterian church--in name only. She gave a few bucks every year, but never went to church herself. When we took her there once, she noticed that the demographics were NOT represented by those she was used to seeing in a Presbyterian church--namely, white Scottish folk. In fact most of the people in the church at that point weren't white at all. She would say, "Why don't they go to their own church--they have their own church." She wasn't a racist--it was just that she couldn't separate religion from culture or from her own personal childhood "kirk" experiences in Scotland. It didn't matter to her that "they" actually WENT to church every week, while she barely stopped by for holiday services.

When she died, we automatically told the funeral director that we wanted the pastor of XX church, since she had been practically a life-long member and it was what she would have wanted. He said, well, the old pastor isn't there anymore, but we'll get the new one for you.

The new pastor was female--and Black. The look on my DH and BIL's faces was priceless, and we've laughed about the irony ever since.

[LDAHL]

The atheist community will hold its own memorial/celebration of life. The widow and a couple of her atheist friends are coordinating it. I plan to help set-up and take-down. She apparently invited the family to this event, but I doubt they will attend because of its decidedly atheist tone. They will have also already held their religious memorial. I think she invited them to "take the high road."

That sounds like the most sensible way to handle things. No point in getting into a battle over someone's memory, especially if they weren't explicit about their wishes.

I know someone who for reasons of her own refuses to attend an internment with military honors. She told me she wouldn't be coming to mine. My response (after asking if she'd heard anything I should know about) was that she should show up for as much as she could stomach, and that there would be no hard feelings on my part.

Very sorry for your loss.

[Ultralight]

The new pastor was female--and Black. The look on my DH and BIL's faces was priceless, and we've laughed about the irony ever since.

lol!

[Tenngal]

sorry for your loss. He was at the point where it was more painful to stay alive.

[Ultralight]

sorry for your loss. He was at the point where it was more painful to stay alive.

I know. I just wish there had been a better way for him to have done this.

[freshstart]

I am sorry for your loss and that his final wishes weren't recognized by his family. I hope your ceremony gives you some sense of comfort

[catherine]

I saw this and thought of you, UA. I hope that people respected this breast cancer victim's wishes NOT to tell her daughter that Mommy was in heaven.

http://beyondblindfold.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/breast-cancer-death-mother-letter-heather-mcmanamy-fb.png

[early morning]

catherine, I hope so too. . .

UA, I am sorry for the loss of your friend. I am a huge proponent of Dr. assisted suicide for those in great pain. My father, in a terminal illness, took his own life. He died, as he had lived, on his own terms, and I cherish that thought.

[Ultralight]

I saw this and thought of you, UA. I hope that people respected this breast cancer victim's wishes NOT to tell her daughter that Mommy was in heaven.

http://beyondblindfold.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/breast-cancer-death-mother-letter-heather-mcmanamy-fb.png

Thank you.

[Ultralight]

catherine, I hope so too. . .

UA, I am sorry for the loss of your friend. I am a huge proponent of Dr. assisted suicide for those in great pain. My father, in a terminal illness, took his own life. He died, as he had lived, on his own terms, and I cherish that thought.

Your dad sounds strong; he must have been very strong.

Some folks think things like depression are not terminal.

[Teacher Terry]

I just got back a few days ago from a 2 week vacation and saw this. I am so very sorry for your loss.

[Ultralight]

I saw this and thought of you, UA. I hope that people respected this breast cancer victim's wishes NOT to tell her daughter that Mommy was in heaven.

http://beyondblindfold.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/breast-cancer-death-mother-letter-heather-mcmanamy-fb.png

Can you link me to this so I can share?

[Ultralight]

I just got back a few days ago from a 2 week vacation and saw this. I am so very sorry for your loss.

Thanks, he is in a better place now.

[catherine]

Can you link me to this so I can share?

Here you go:

http://www.beyondblindfold.com/after-his-wife-passes-away-husband-posts-her-goodbye-letter-thats-both-funny-and-touching/

[Gardenarian]

I'm sorry you have lost your good friend.

This may seem odd, but I recommend you see the movie Captain Fantastic, if you can. In a large part it is about an atheist family trying to honor the (very explicit) last wishes of their wife and mother, and battling with her parents. Like your friend, the woman also committed suicide due to depression.

It is an inspiring and sometimes very funny film - definitely something your atheist group would enjoy - if not now, at some time.

[Ultralight]

Friday night I went to the Celebration of Life for my friend who put a .45 long colt in his brain.

The event was secular, beautiful, fun even.

The widow read from The Good Book (https://www.amazon.com/Good-Book-Humanist-Bible/dp/0802778372).

Truth be told I had to leave a few times, just to go outside and stop myself from crying.

But I think my friend would have been moved and so powerfully impacted by how many atheists showed up to celebrate his life, his irreverent humor, and his insight.

A close friend and the widow made a slide show of pictures -- and there was my friend at the Reason Rally and in pics with Hitch and other famous atheists. There he was giving blood, volunteering, and enjoying himself at parties.

That collection of pics would have made it seem the guy was thoroughly happy, not so depressed that he eventually killed himself.

[freshstart]

UA, I'm really sorry but I am glad he did get that atheist send off

[rosarugosa]

UA: I'm glad you were able to have a fitting send-off. As an aside, I had never heard of the Good Book, so I followed your link. I have to wonder, do we really need a "bible" of our very own? I would be interested in hearing your perspective.

[SteveinMN]

Late to this, but I'm sorry for your loss, UA.