my ex is suing me again

[freshstart]

My ex is taking me to court for child support. He won, he turned both kids against me but that's not enough. The way he took DD, when I was at my sickest and he said it was temporary so she wouldn't have to see me falling all day long was despicable, he never gave her back and told her terrible things about me that are in no way true. At the end of our child rearing time together, he never co-parented, he took me to court over nonsense that I would win but still have to pay lawyer fees, he perfected alienation of affection to an art form and in the end, he "won". And that's still not good enough. I make approx 24k. I have already spent 12k this year so far on medical bills. He is getting double the NYS minimum he would've gotten based on my salary in child support from SSDI, $950 a month for DD. DS emancipated himself from me at 15, took a year off after high school and is now in a 6 mos trade school to make guitars. He plans to get a job in that field after finishing. I would say that "child" is an adult who is not in need of child support and because he emancipated himself from me, legally my ex is not entitled to it. But now I have to pay my lawyer to go to court to fight this. my lawyer said not to worry, the most the judge would give him is a "very small amt", perhaps nothing considering what he gets from SSDI. A very small amt, no matter how small, will be a lot to me considering my medical bills. Child support goes to age 21, DD is 17. But DD is on her way to emancipating herself from me as well, I've seen her once in 6 weeks and she is supposed to come weekly. The ex will catch onto the emancipation thing with DS and make sure DD comes weekly now. then there is DD's college. It was in our separation agreement that we would each pay half the value of a State school. If worse comes to worse and I am beholden to that despite my change in life circumstances, that would be 3k a year. As long as the judge says I only have to pay tuition, not room and board, etc. Besides the heartbreak of essentially having lost my children to a horrible man, who did horrible things, I now have to face an even more financially insecure future. I hate him and I don't hate anybody. He is pure greed, he makes a great salary, he is only doing this to watch me suffer. The worst and most painful part is that I am not somebody who would duck child support or paying for college. If I had my old job, this would be a non-issue, we wouldn't be going to court because I would be paying my share. I truly can't right now. I just needed to type that out, thx if you read this far. I am sorry this is one long paragraph, no matter what I did, the site would not take returns to make new paragraphs.

[freshstart]

I am on this site to learn to live more simply, that is impossible when stuff like this happens

[iris lilies]

I am sorry to hear this, this financial problem is not sometong you need now! Ugh.

Does child support obligation really depend on how often a child sees a parent? I am just wondering aloud, dont really need an answer. Was your son legally emancipated? Can a kid do that, become emancipatd legally from one parent but not another? These are just idle questions on my part, no real need to know.

I am sorry for your children in all of this battling between their parents. I hope that, with the exception of how he relates to you, he is a reasonably decent parent. I do think it is a good thing that your daughter had someone stable to take her in when your own health went down the tubes. I have to say that I think your choice of words is a little odd as in "he never gave her back." At this point, your daughter is making her own decisions where she lives.

But yeah, it is really stupid and mean of him to go after you for more financial support.

[merince]

Sorry to hear that this is happening. Detach and don't let him drag you in the mud with him. All of this has an expiration date. Just 4 more years. Keep your chin up!

In a way I feel sorry for him - seems like his focus is to make you "pay" or revenge - obviously you've had quite an impact on him if he still hasn't let go.

[freshstart]

I guess I do have to accept that it is her choice to stay there but it was a choice that was heavily influenced by him and i resent that. I should've known he was going to sue me because he has tried to do it every year since 2002. Luckily, we've had the same family court judge all these years so she is used to the nonsense. But it costs me money every time he does it and the stress of it is brutal on me.

apparently a child can emancipate himself because the last time we were before the judge she said DS had done that. So I should win on that account. But you never know which way the wind will be blowing and it wasn't written up in a legal document.

He is a reasonably decent parent except for the running down of me and even my parents. It was unnecessary from the get go and I don't do it to him. He hated paying child support so much that he would beg the kids to come live with him full time since they were small, even though he was admonished by the judge for trying to do this. It was horrible to do to them but in the end, they were convinced.

I thought my divorce could be a clean break and I read all these books on how to co-parent and make a divorce as easy on the kids as possible. I had my head up my you know what. I was a fool to ever think he would co-parent.

[Selah]

From my dimly remembered paralegal studies I did years ago, this reminds me of the principles of "abuse of process" or "malicious prosecution." It concerns me that the judge is "used to the nonsense." She shouldn't be, and shouldn't tolerate it. It might be worth investigating--wasting the court's time and your time/money/peace of mind is not right, and not just.

[Float On]

So sorry.

[freshstart]

From my dimly remembered paralegal studies I did years ago, this reminds me of the principles of "abuse of process" or "malicious prosecution." It concerns me that the judge is "used to the nonsense." She shouldn't be, and shouldn't tolerate it. It might be worth investigating--wasting the court's time and your time/money/peace of mind is not right, and not just.

thanks, I will ask about this. Except this time I think he is allowed to take me to court to try to get whatever he can since it's in our separation agreement that I would pay for half of a State school.

[freshstart]

In a way I feel sorry for him - seems like his focus is to make you "pay" or revenge - obviously you've had quite an impact on him if he still hasn't let go.

he hated paying child support even though he made a decent salary, I think that rage at having to "pay" me (in his perception) just never went away. I became the focus of his rage and a project to take on that was an outlet for the rage

[Mary B.]

he hated paying child support even though he made a decent salary, I think that rage at having to "pay" me (in his perception) just never went away. I became the focus of his rage and a project to take on that was an outlet for the rage

So sorry this is happening, freshstart.

[razz]

You know what struck me is the thought that this degree of malice will enlighten your two kids - not to the extent that they will change but to raise their awareness of the character of their dad when they know that you are very ill. Not much comfort, I know.

At one point does the court say, enough, as this is abusing court time and resources? I am genuinely curious.

[Amaranth]

To start, I think we need to clarify that your ex-husband is an abusive man and an abusive parent. A good parent does not continue to abuse and torture his ex-wife, damage his children’s relationship with their mother and maternal relatives, try to squeeze money out of someone who lives at the poverty level and is already losing half of their money to medical bills. The fact that he may do a good enough acting job on the surface to uninformed acquaintances to appear to be a good parent does not make him so. (Disclaimer though so this thread doesn’t get into a discussion about his parenting behaviors. He is likely doing some things right though since your children are not completely derailed from a positive path.)

One place that might be able to help provide info to you is your local domestic violence organizations. They have probably seen many cases of the abusive ex-husband continuing to abuse his former wife with endless lawsuits and have some ideas about how to handle it. Also talk to them about how to protect yourself and your daughter till she is 21 and out of college.

I have heard of judges putting a stop to this by having the ex-husband pay the legal fees of the ex-wife every time he loses the malicious lawsuits. See if your lawyer can make this part of the deal.

It would be important to check the wording on the agreement as to whether it’s half of the expenses to go to a state school or half of the tuition.

It would be useful to find out if any scholarships or grants you can help her get would count toward your half. If so it will probably be necessary to require legally that your daughter and your husband cooperate with you to apply for and get these scholarships and grants. That should be spelled out in the new agreements.

You may want to provide to your son and daughter summaries/transcripts of your ex-husband’s attacks against you, your responses, the effects of his continuing abuse on your health and finances and ability to contribute to their college expenses. It’s important for it to be clear to them that you care for them, you are sick, and live in poverty.

Whatever happens in the above though, it is very important that your daughter go to a good school and major in something that will get her a really good job and do a good job academically while there. This will be the only way she can escape her father. Also since she has grown up being controlled and manipulated by an abusive man, she is at risk for having an abusive relationship/husband. I don’t know if it is possible, but it might be worth in the agreement to require that your daughter have counseling every other week till she goes to college and maybe through her first year to try and head off some of this.

If the worst case scenario does occur, and you have to pay 3,000 or 12,000 or half of what is left after scholarships/grants each year for her school, see if you can set up a gofundme account to help pay for it. Check that things are set up in a way that gives you all the credit for the money but that it doesn’t count as income for you. The Gofundme might go into her college account for example, but check very carefully. Also have your lawyer check your gofundme wording so it doesn’t have anything any it that will backfire on you or could be used by your ex to sue you.

Alternatively, you could pay the tuition and gofundme your medical expenses. But ditto cautions as above. And that may not be as successful The I am seriously ill and have whopping medical expenses, but want to make sure my daughter has a good college education is more appealing.

Secondly talk to your daughter about other visiting times that might work better for her. High school kids have really tough schedules and it can be hard for even intact happy families to see each other. Also consider the likely probability that your ex-husband abuses your daughter psychologically or financially each time she visits with you. He may also set up things to sabotage her time, so that it’s more difficult to fit in a visit to you. To preserve her own ability to escape from him, she may need to withdraw from contact with you to reduce stress and have time to do really well in her school work. If he pays for the kid’s phones, he may be able to see/hear all conversations/emails/texts with you, so all of their contacts with you could be unsafe for them and you. Or he could have bugged the house.

Thirdly, are there other things your ex-husband is suddenly having to provide money for? Pregnant mistress, illegitimate children, alcohol/drug habit, etc? If so those choices of his might be considered in any decision making.

Fourth check with social services type groups to see if you are eligible for anything now and/or if you are paying more in support/school expenses/medical expenses in the near future. Check with your lawyer before you apply for anything though to see if having it will hurt you in any way.

Fifth, start now to improve your connections with civic/church groups. Do it in ways that don’t hurt your heath though. And don’t mention any of your problems other than just alluding to them by saying after so many people helping you as you’ve been sick, you want to start giving back some. This will also give you free happy things to do with other positive people. In worst case scenarios they may be able to help you do fundraisers to fund your daughter’s college education or help in other ways. In best case scenarios they may give you advice/leads/recommendations for local scholarships/grants.

[Tybee]

Amaranth, you raise many interesting points about the abusive nature of Freshstart's ex. I like your idea about contacting the shelter and getting some counseling based around the idea that he is abusing Freshstart.

I also like the idea of seeing if something can be done to protect her from these malicious lawsuits.

But honestly, as someone who was married and divorced from someone like Freshstart is describing, that is all I would worry about doing. I would not get involved in trying to figure out why he is being abusive--you'll never know, and it won't help. I would not worry about DD at this point, as she is currently distancing herself from freshstart, for whatever reason--and the reasons Amaranth suggests might be the case. I would not try to protect DD against ex--she can't at this point, and she will make herself crazy worrying about DD if she goes down the road you are suggesting here. DD can go to court if she wants and seek protection against ex but it is unlikely that she is going to do that.

Freshstart, I am really sorry that this abuser still has a way to try to hurt you. I would disengage from him and from your kids. I would let your kids know you love them and you are there for them and you will help them financially as much as you are able. I would let them know you are always there for them and ready to spend time with them. And then I'd step back and let them make the next move.

I sure as hell would not get any more involved with ex or thinking about him or how to stop him, etc. etc. I would try to put some money aside as college money if you can, and then try not to worry about it. I certainly would pay my med bills before putting aside college money. I very much doubt a judge is going to try to get more money from you, as you are severely disabled at this point and can't work.

When my kids turned 19, I took the position that we were done, done trying to get child support, or get him to pay what he was supposed to pay, and we left the state. It was one of the happiest days of my life.

Hang in there, Freshstart, your happiest day will come.

And your kids will figure out what went down and I am betting that you will have a good relationship with them again. That is what happened in my case, and in most of the alienation cases that I have heard of.

And one final thing-- an abuser who tries to alienate kids from a parent is not a good parent. This is not providing a stable home for them, in any way shape or form. They will usually end up emotionally abusing the kids. And the kids will figure it out. And so in the long run, the abusive parent will lose that relationship, too.

[freshstart]

OMG, it's so overwhelming I don't know where to start to respond. I did get court ordered counseling for Claire and myself but she has her own court-appointed lawyer and she told her she hated it and wasn't going back and the judge ok'd that. So I got nowhere in trying to preserve some type of positive relationship with her. Since I got sick, almost all of our interactions have been ones where she is angry at me and when asked why it's "because I have to come here". She can pick the time to come, she just doesn't want to come at all. We were very close before I got sick so I really wanted therapy to work on that but she has rights now that she is 17, she doesn't have to do therapy.

And you are right, he is a shitty parent. But I'm not ready for the blinders to fall from their eyes until they give me some signal that THEY are ready to hear me. If not it will backfire into, "see, you just hate dad" type of thing.

my lawyer said he's within his rights to take me to court this time because the court does not know my situation has changed and that that might affect their decision making. Right now it looks like I am not following our separation agreement and we have to go in and show why I can't. she said she believes there is no way the judge is going to make me pay much once she sees my medical expenses. But she might make me pay a token amt.

there is no pregnant GF and I don't see him as a drug abuser. He has a steady, well paying job and has had the same non-live in GF for 8 or 9 yrs. Outwardly, he presents very well.

When I lose my lousy $170 a month from my employer's long term disability (which could happen at any time), I will be eligible for SNAP and HEAP. Right now, that $170 keeps me just over the line to receive assistance.

I'm not a big joiner. I need to give back because I am missing that piece that hospice gave me. Before I got hit with this mess, I planned to follow up with someone's suggestion to be a volunteer who calls the at risk elderly every day to make sure they are ok. I have some surgery coming up in Oct so I figured I would look into after that was over.

I got some help from the local domestic violence center when everything went down back in 2002. I was in a group for a while then decided to pursue private therapy. I'm not sure I can walk through those doors again, I've come a long way from there but I think going back there will put my brain back at the time everything was happening. That's a horrible place to be and it's taken years to get past it.

My lawyer has been with me since the beginning, she's pretty good at saying, "hold up, this is another nuisance law suit," to the judge. So far the judge has never made him pay my legal fees even though my lawyer has requested that. This time, I will definitely have to pay because he has the right to try to come after me since I am not following our separation agreement. But my lawyer assures me the judge is likely to be sympathetic in her ruling.

I've tried to help Claire with picking a college, a major, starting her applications and applying for scholarships. She slams that door right in my face, she has it all "handled". She plans to be a business major at our State Uni so she doesn't have to take out much in undergrad student loans and then get her MBA at a "better" school. I've sent her links to scholarships, etc and been ignored. She does not want my help in any way.

thanks for offering so much advice, I need to sleep on some of it. Domestic violence changes you as a person especially when you think you're above it happening to you. I was one of those women, I never thought my life would be like this. Ignorance is bliss.

[freshstart]

oh, thank God, it let me have paragraphs this time!

[Reyes]

Oi, sorry this is going on. Does your state link parenting time and support together? Here in Oregon the lack of seeing child does not dismiss a parent's obligation to financially support a child. Is that the case in your state?

I was surprised by the "abuser" language on this thread. Maybe you've posted in the past about abuse and I've missed that, apologies if so. I thought in your initial post it was about him looking for financial support for the kids (albeit when he may not need your funds as badly as you need it). Did I miss something previously?

[freshstart]

IDK the law regarding parenting time and support, I just know that the judge said when Adam chose to not see me, he had emancipated himself and I didn't have to pay. That was a sidebar to the issue I was being sued for at the time. But according to my lawyer, it does seem that if the teen chooses to spend no time with the parent, then support can be affected. I will find out for sure in the coming months.

yes, I have posted before that my husband was violent, there was one particularly bad session of violence, I don't think the details need to be hashed over, suffice it to say it was very, very bad

[Tybee]

Parental alienation and financial abuse are also forms of domestic violence.

Hang in there, freshstart, you are a very strong person and of course this happens in all walks of life; it is not something you are "above" or something anyone deserves.

[Tammy]

Yes - if this deemed an abuse of court time I would think a judge could rule that he had to pay for both sides' lawyer fees and court costs.

Edit - Never mind -- I posted before I read to the end.

[Tybee]

I googled about child support and disability and here are to links I found that may be useful:
http://kyjustice.org/node/744
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-get-child-support-order-modified-because-disability.html

[freshstart]

thank you

[ToomuchStuff]

I am sorry to hear this, this financial problem is not sometong you need now! Ugh.

Does child support obligation really depend on how often a child sees a parent? I am just wondering aloud, dont really need an answer. Was your son legally emancipated? Can a kid do that, become emancipatd legally from one parent but not another? These are just idle questions on my part, no real need to know.



There seems to be quite a bit of armchair lawyering from people here, who may not be in or familiar with her state.
In my state, there is a kid, who at one time, could have been my stepkid (friend and I fought over this gal, he lost and married her). His mother had sole custody, and due to some violence issues (after my friend and her divorced), the Judge recommended the kid get emancipated and walked him through the process. So yes, in some instances at least, you can emancipate yourself from one parent, legally.
He moved in for a short bit, with his father, but didn't want to follow his rules, so he was kicked out and moved in with my friend, his stepfather.
IANAL
Money, in an account in "trust" (example, college education funds), the kid might be able to get, but would have to sue for (the legally emancipated kid, not the parent). But child support for that one should be over.
You don't have custody of either kid, correct? That would affect your income level (both state and federal poverty guidelines). Other factors would be, if in your state, the court can or not, count things like disability income. (your child support could even go down because of things like that) Bills, suck, but also may not be able to fully be counted. (legal verses accounting/credit, junk)
If I remember, your living with your parent, due to the medical issues. So is there rent, caretaker expenses, etc? Do they collect money from the state to take care of you? (that could even be an enticement for a kid to move in, get paid to help)
You say DD is on her way to emancipating herself as well. That would solve the child support issue, if she does it legally. I read that you entirely blame your ex for this, but both with your medical (and trying to keep the kids from seeing it) and them being teenagers, I see that as an issue, that a lot of parents deal with. (only time fixes that)
Honestly, you hate this, but this is stuff your should be discussing with your lawyer. You say it appears your not in compliance, well that makes in some states, him legally required to bring that to the courts attention. (doesn't always mean just hates you) There will always be those that will enjoy that, but this could (depending on what your lawyer says), end up being to your benefit. (court could ask for the kids as witnesses)

[Teacher Terry]

Your circumstances have definitely changed for the worse so I think your lawyer is right and you won't have to pay for her college. YOu are only 170 away from qualifying for SNAP for god sake. I am sure your lawyer can make the point that you would rather be working your good job and paying half of the college. REally a no brainier. Hugs:))

[Zoe Girl]

Sounds like your lawyer has your back, so much has changed for you since the last time you saw a judge. I would trust a judge would re-evaluate

And yes, parents use the legal system to abuse ex's and children all the time. I have seen some pretty horrible stuff and have not seen it legally called out, although it sounds like my friends' judge was disgusted and was limited by the law. Just simply taking the other parent back until they run out of money. I have also lived through the extreme anger over 'paying me', when he refused for years to adjust anything so I could work more or advance a career with kids who were always sick. That was the time the mediator told me to take what I really needed from the mediation and leave, and enforce the no-contact provision for my own safety. Sorry, It brings back memories at times.

[freshstart]

Thanks, TeacherTerry.

I'm sorry, Zoe. It sucks that we're even robbed of good memories because it feels like the bad are so much closer to the surface

toomuchstuff- he doesn't have to sue me to work out a deal, he could choose to mediate it through the lawyers, he always chooses not to. Last year, on my birthday, I was pretty sick. A florist's van pulled up in the driveway. I stupidly thought I was getting birthday flowers, only to be met by a process server. That was totally unnecessary. When the other party knows you have an attorney, they are supposed to serve the attorney, he never has. This is fun for him, he loves having me served.

I don't entirely blame my ex. I recognize that both kids are at an age when developmentally and psychologically they need to separate from their parents in order to be adults. I have to let them do that. And I blame myself more than you will ever know.

[Tammy]

Toomuchstuff - I find it funny that you talk about all the amateur lawyers and then you write a long post doing the same thing. :)

Aren't discussion boards a wild and crazy place! :D

But yes - your point is good - these questions are for her lawyer. We are here for emotional support only.

[Tybee]

Wow, the process server on the birthday--he's not a lawyer, is he? What a tool.

Please don't feel that you have to justify to the forum that you were abused. People who don't get it, don't get it. For some reason, people like to tell people that what they experienced wasn't abuse, or cast aspersions on them, or tell them it has nothing to do with whether someone is a good parent or not. Not sure why this is; but it happens; I think it makes them more comfortable if they can say, "well, it didn't happen," or "she probably deserved it."

Ugh. Welcome to the nasty world of DV.

[ToomuchStuff]

Toomuchstuff - I find it funny that you talk about all the amateur lawyers and then you write a long post doing the same thing. :)

Aren't discussion boards a wild and crazy place! :D

But yes - your point is good - these questions are for her lawyer. We are here for emotional support only.

Exactly. And while she has had the lawyer for a while, it is good to know your strategy and have discussions, going into it.

[freshstart]

all ideas welcome and thank you for all the support

[Reyes]

yes, I have posted before that my husband was violent, there was one particularly bad session of violence, I don't think the details need to be hashed over, suffice it to say it was very, very bad

Ah, I missed that thread/posts. And of course no need to rehash. Sorry you are going through this. Court processes are stressful all around and generally not a good use of money. I hope this passes quickly for you.

[freshstart]

thank you, I hope so too. He doesn't see that if we worked it out between the attorneys, the savings in lawyer and court costs could be spent on the kids!

I got served by a clown once, I'm waiting to see how he tops himself, maybe a magician, that would be fun! He is such an idiot, lol

[margene]

I have nothing to add. I'm just sorry freshstart that you are having to deal with all this.

[catherine]

freshstart, I also can't offer you any decent advice. It must be so painful for you to be in this position. The only bright spot I can offer is that I had two friends who coincidentally both had similar experience: they were both female and had initiated divorces, the consequences of which were that they became estranged with their children. In one case, the children chose to live with their father and hated their mother. I can't imagine the pain of that. However, both of my friends now have re-bonded with their children. The teen/young adult years are so tough for everyone, but there is hope for light at the end when and if they grow up.

I also don't know HOW they are going to expect you to pay more in child support given your financial situation.

[beckyliz]

Hugs.

[freshstart]

thank you, everyone. I am heartened when I hear of adult children coming back around. I hope dearly for that, especially with my DD. Up until I got sick we were so close. In the thread about sending a care package to my estranged son at school, someone recommended the book, When Parents Hurt. I just got it from the library, it's about when there is strife with your grown children. It's going to be a hard but necessary read. Thank you, whomever recommended that.

[Tybee]

thank you, everyone. I am heartened when I hear of adult children coming back around. I hope dearly for that, especially with my DD. Up until I got sick we were so close. In the thread about sending a care package to my estranged son at school, someone recommended the book, When Parents Hurt. I just got it from the library, it's about when there is strife with your grown children. It's going to be a hard but necessary read. Thank you, whomever recommended that.

I did. It's a great book. It really helped me with my young adult children.

[freshstart]

thanks, tybee