the implications of a lift chair

[freshstart]

My father keeps falling. Often when standing up from a chair. The other night was bad, he took out two lamps and no matter how hard I tried I could not lift him at the angle he was in. after a while he was able to get onto his knees and get up. I said we were shopping for a lift chair the next day, I was done with face plants that were going to result in a fractured hip.

We go and quickly find a suitable chair. Then the fun starts. He has a leather chair in the LR that is "HIS" chair. However, it is uncomfortable and his hair has discolored the leather at the head rest. It looks really gross. and no one sits in it because it really is uncomfortable. So I said, ok that's the chair we''ll get rid of. Bear in mind, I "found" two recliners in the basement hoard that they were supposed to have been gotten rid of when we moved. They are in poor shape and there is no place to put them. He wanted to add the leather chair to the basement hoard. "oh no, that chair was expensive, we'll put it in the basement." then he gets my mom, hoarder, to agree. They might need it someday but can't explain what would have to happen that would cause them to need 3 recliners. They just "might need it".

This pisses me off to no end because they are members of a group who is trying to raise money and get donated stuff for a town that was decimated by a hurricane. It's been several years and people are still unable to return to their homes. These people lost everything. So they believe in the work of this charity, their meetings are one of the few things my mother leaves the house for no matter how bad a day she has had. And we are sitting on a wealth of stuff that we do not need in any way, shape or form. I kind of lost it and said it that chair ended up in the hoard, I was selling my share of this house and getting a 1 BR condo, I was done and when they died they should be aware that I was calling 1-800-GOT-JUNK and having every last thing hauled out of the basement and trashed. Then I walked away.

Later, my dad said the chair is going in the garage to be picked up by the charity when he had more stuff to give than just one chair. I said you have three chairs totally unused. He just couldn't see it, that that horrible day will never come that we need three raggedy recliners. I've stopped for now but I did say if that chair was still here by Christmas, I was leaving.

I've never said I would leave before because of the hoard, I think I shook them up a bit. Of course I can't really leave because they don't have the money to buy me out and I have to help with my mother's care needs. But I acted like I would pull that trigger and they bought it.

I have to face that hoard and do something about it or I am going to lose my ever loving mind. I feel like I think about it all the time. My shrink said to call 1-800-Got-Junk and get an actual estimate of how much it would cost for them to come and haul it all away so I stop worrying about how much that's gonna cost when the time comes. And that I should only work on the part of the hoard that is mine, leave the rest of it. I guess that's good advice except I know me, I'm gonna have to at least peek in every box when the Got Junk day finally comes. i could never let go of the hoard without poking through it. I'm as bad as them.

[bae]

My mother-in-law passed away around Christmas. She'd lived in her huge Victorian home for 60-ish years.

My initial opening bid of "let's either get 3-4 big dumpsters, or let the fire department burn the place down" was rejected.

We'll be another year more just removing enough BLEEEEP to be able to get rid of the place.

And my mother-in-law wasn't even over the "hoarder" line, but it's still madness.

[freshstart]

it really is. I know I'm worrying in advance about them dying and leaving me this crap but it's so soul sucking to be around. When they go, my brother will not come from Boston and help empty the house. So it will take me probably 6 mos if I go it alone. I know I should start now but I look at it all and walk back upstairs. At least if they are gone, I won't have to discuss the merits of every piece of Tupperware from 1974 that has no lid, I will be able to just trash it. I think that's what stops me now, I cannot deal with fighting over every piece of junk.

I will never leave crap for my kids. I'll let them pick what they want in advance and then get rid of what I don't use. I want to leave them with UA's level of stuff to deal with. And a dog, they better take my dog, lol

my aunt is coming Weds to stay for a while and de-hoard my mother's room yet again, this is at least the 6th time. I give her credit, I cannot do it

[Teacher Terry]

I would put things in the garage for the charity and when you have enough call them to take it away. I would include the 2 chairs in the basement. Maybe you can get someone to bring them into the garage.

[bae]

At least if they are gone, I won't have to discuss the merits of every piece of Tupperware from 1974 that has no lid, I will be able to just trash it. I think that's what stops me now, I cannot deal with fighting over every piece of junk.


A cousin came out this winter to help. He spent over a week "organizing the holiday wrapping paper". WTF. There's a fireplace there that can take 6 foot logs... Just...do...the...right...thing.

I also observed, in the kitchen that is bigger than my living room, and full of drawers and cupboards full of "useful things" a lengthy discussion between some of the relatives about which spatulas ought to be sent to which people.... We're talking 40-50 year old ratty spatulas of no particular merit.

I did some math and concluded that with this method, the house wouldn't be empty for another 30 years. My wife and I are going out next week, with a terrible swift sword...

[freshstart]

I would've slapped someone silly with those spatulas! Good luck, Bae.

[19Sandy]

Big houses with lots of stuff are what estate sales are all about. Some people do an auction instead. Autumn is a great time for that too. Of course, these are older folks who grew up during the Great Depression times when you saved tin cans and foil. That is hard to get over as an adult. Now, people want to go back to tiny houses and fewer possessions, and then their kids will want to live in mansions. So is life!

[iris lilies]

This thread makes me insane. I just cannot, will not, be accomodating to people who value our life energy so little that they fuss endlessly, and expect us to as well, with cheap gewgaws and worthless physical objects.

OP! i feel for ya.

Deep breaths. Your elderly parents will not be around forever. When the day comes, you can jettison it all and be free. FREEEEEEEE!!! I want to come and sit on your lawn and help you drink the wine and watch the dumpster as hired brawny young men haul the crap to the dumpster. Then we will throw our wine bottles against the dumpster as it leaves your yard in a sort of christening of Your New Life. Yep!

[19Sandy]

I think you should show your parents endless hours of the hoarding shows on tv and see if they can notice the similarities. One thing that MK suggests is taking a photograph of each room and looking at it. Just like people have nose blindness, they can have clutter blindness but a photo is different. I am definitely not perfect in my decluttering efforts but when excess stuff is affecting you mentally, emotionally and physically, you got to do something.

What if you couldn't get your father up after a fall - what if you needed to call paramedics? Could they get to him quickly?

[catherine]

I'm not a hoarder, but.. 30 years in one place makes it easy to ignore the stashes here and there. Your post is a cautionary tale for all of us with children who will have to deal with it someday. And I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating, when my mother died, it took my brothers and I about 10 minutes to take care of her belongings. Of course, the reason for that was pretty tragic--she had a brain aneurysm, followed by a stroke, followed by a fire that destroyed all her belongings which were stored in my uncle's barn (although I've always suspected he lit the match--no one expected my mother to come out of her state of chronic disorientation, but she did--and the first thing she did after her "awakening" was ask about her fur coat).

But, if I could ensure that my kids could pitch in and get it all done in an afternoon, I be able to rest easy.

[19Sandy]

If someone rents an apartment, a landlord might only give a family a few days to declutter, and that is with arrangements and such going on. If you don't clear it out quickly, they toss the stuff and send a family the bill for the service. Heck, I might live for another 40 years but you got to have your important papers in one place and a limited amount of stuff in case the worse happens.

I was watching American Pickers over the weekend and a guy was showing them a house of his dads. His dad died when he was 6 and the house had not been cleaned or changed at all and the guy was in his 30s! It was definitely a hoard just like on the hoarding shows but not with waste or garbage. This guy didn't know what to do with all of the stuff.

[freshstart]

This thread makes me insane. I just cannot, will not, be accomodating to people who value our life energy so little that they fuss endlessly, and expect us to as well, with cheap gewgaws and worthless physical objects.

OP! i feel for ya.

Deep breaths. Your elderly parents will not be around forever. When the day comes, you can jettison it all and be free. FREEEEEEEE!!! I want to come and sit on your lawn and help you drink the wine and watch the dumpster as hired brawny young men haul the crap to the dumpster. Then we will throw our wine bottles against the dumpster as it leaves your yard in a sort of christening of Your New Life. Yep!

you have an open invitation

[freshstart]

I think you should show your parents endless hours of the hoarding shows on tv and see if they can notice the similarities. One thing that MK suggests is taking a photograph of each room and looking at it. Just like people have nose blindness, they can have clutter blindness but a photo is different. I am definitely not perfect in my decluttering efforts but when excess stuff is affecting you mentally, emotionally and physically, you got to do something.

What if you couldn't get your father up after a fall - what if you needed to call paramedics? Could they get to him quickly?

the hoarding is contained to their spaces- their BR, my dad's office and then the rest of the basement, I keep the common areas relatively clutter free. So if he falls, odds are they could get to him. It would be tricky in the basement but I've seen houses much worse when I was a nurse. My father is an enabler but acknowledges my mom is a hoarder. My mom used to be ok talking about how hoarding has ruined her life but my dad recently went and got a social worker to come in and talk to her about being OCD with her meds and then lead into a conversation about the hoarding. My mother hit the roof and now we cannot talk about the "H Word" and she has remained furious in general the entire past week. $50 says she never tells the social worker (who will be sitting in her hoarded room) that she is a hoarder. It would be wonderful to have a social worker coming regularly to talk about her life of hoarding and how maybe with baby steps we can improve her quality of life but my mother would never let that happen. The First Rule of Fight Club theory applies here

[freshstart]

OMG, I can't stand it. I went in to to see how my mother was feeling today and she yelled back that she heard it had been decided without her that the old chair would go in the garage and she was furious she had not been consulted. I asked what she wanted to do with it and of course, she said put it in the basement. I pointed out there are already two recliners buried down there that someone could be using. She acknowledges the chair is uncomfortable and has an unsightly stain so why would we keep it? "Because I said so." So now we are past, "we might need it" and into because she says so. She was hysterical and there was no way to have a rational conversation but I lost my patience and said again if the chair is not gone by Christmas, I am moving out. She said "good".

I hate this tension but I signed up to be her caregiver and they ended up helping me so much. My father picked me up off the floor over and over when I was sick. They help pay for my groceries since I became disabled. I owe them so much. And fighting with my mom about the hoard feels like kicking a puppy. Why can't it just not bother me? It's like the old dynamics of when I was a teenager living with them, not 3 adults sharing a home. My dad is fine, he has better boundaries but my mom treats me the way she treated me as a child. Thank God I have therapy but sometimes it feels like I'm not the only one who should be going.

oh and my dad said the chair maybe shouldn't go in the garage because mice will get into it. That leaves the basement. I said it's not going to be there long enough for mice to get in it.

[iris lilies]

This is just an idle obervation on my part of minimal value, but if you are looking at your mother as "the puppy" then I think you are off base. Your mother has all the power in your household. The entire house revolves around her physical and mental illnesses. Because she takes no realistic steps to mitigate her mental illness or to relax its effect on you, SHE is the puppy kicker, and you are the puppy. I am pretty sure that the literature of mental illness shows how central is the person with the illness to the lives of family and friends, abnormally so. That person becomes huge in their circle because their ability to disrupt normal, peaceful life is disproportionately large.

I think you confuse her illnesses in your role as professional caregiver with your role as cohabitant in this house.

Sure, when you are the professional caregiver, you should look at her as a victim of her many illnesses, as someone to take care of, as a sick puppy. Then, you have more power because you can always walk away, that ismthe value of a professional role.

But when you live with her you are dependant on her 24/7 for cohabiting normalicy. I do think you all have come to a reasonable place with her room hoarded and shared spaces normal. That is good work! The basement has become the power center and she controls what happens to it because she has the most power.

my blatherings may or may nt be relevant, be of good cheer!

[Chicken lady]

Do your parents go down to the basement?

i ask, because, when things were really bad here, what happened was that everything that was not mine (remember, I'm the hoarder) came out of the basement. And my stuff got moved down to the basement until the other people were able to live in the house acceptably. Which meant the basement was literally packed wall to wall, floor to ceiling, with aisles in it.

so my thought is, can you go down there, start at one wall, and just pile up everything you want to get rid of. When the pile is too big, walk three feet and start another row. Bring your stuff upstairs and identify things that can go to the basement to make room for your stuff. Eventually, you will have all of your stuff upstairs, and you will know that you can call somebody and say "please remove everything in the basement" when the time comes.

this only works if you can keep your family from messing with the stuff in the basement.

[Teacher Terry]

You may have to wait for your Mom to pass before any real change is possible. Your Dad may be more agreeable once she is gone. So sorry you are going through this.

[freshstart]

IL, I think you summed it up perfectly, I'm looking at it from the wrong lens, that was helpful, thank you

CL, if she knows I'm down there going through stuff she will not take it well but I like your suggestion and I can do that without getting rid of anything just yet, I can have it all sorted and ready to go when she passes.

TT. you're probably right. It's hard with cardiopulmonary diseases because she could have a crisis and die tomorrow or live another 5 years, no one knows for sure.

I think I'm going to finish going through my DD's room (I'm getting rid of her desk to bring up a treadmill) and clothes, get that room squared away for exercise and guests and then make some sort of schedule with a commitment to working on the basement. And realize it may take me a year to finish it.

[Chicken lady]

Just tell her you're looking for your gazingamadoodles.

[Tybee]

I actually think the puppy lens is probably not helpful for this situation. Anyone who is seriously ill is not going to function at their best. In your house, there are three adults who are seriously ill, and your mom's situation has been described by you as terminal, so I don't think it is helpful to see her behavior as calculated to be the center of attention or running the household through her mental illness-it sounds to me like she is just hanging on, and not capable of making the positive changes that you would like to see as your own health stabilizes and gets better.

If you want to leave and can leave, then maybe it would be a good thing, as it sounds like she will have other caretakers. Or as someone said, you could leave and still caretake but then have your own haven to go to. You could turn off the caretaking at a certain point in the day and be able to rest and recharge and take care of yourself.

It really helped me with my parents to realize that they aren't doing anything to be difficult, they are just doing the best they could and it is not really adequate by my standards for the situation they were in, or maybe by the professional standards you know from hospice, that you would see the situation as inadequate. The hoarded basement certainly does not sound like a good thing for anyone. Hours spent OCD over pills--not a good thing, and very frustrating for someone who knows this is abnormal and could be helped.

But realistically, I find I am not the best person to make suggestions to my parents, as they tune me out, the old dynamic makes it impossible for them to hear what I am saying--it is better when the message comes from others. That old hurtful dynamic keeps coming to life when we are together. It hurts when they will not listen or when they become angry and dismissive when I suggest something.

I wish you peace and healing, freshstart. Maybe a condo of your own would not be such a bad thing, and it doesn't have to be a move taken out of spite, right? Maybe your heart is telling you that the condo solution would provide you with a haven of your own.

[Zoe Girl]

The puppy dog thing seems like a way to explain your emotional state, but not realistic as others have pointed out. One thing I realized with a few of my most difficult kids I worked with is that mental illness can also be really manipulative. It took a long time to see how that functioned because of how they overlap each other. So even if your mom can't help it, it is also still trying to keep control of the situation. I think your getting to the end of your patience and saying you will leave is different, it is really where you are at and not trying to manipulate but honestly needing some things for yourself.

I was hopeful for some movement after your first post in this thread, but it is likely you will not get to do much until she passes. I would join you and IL for that celebration of the stuff being gone however!

[iris lilies]

I actually think the puppy lens is probably not helpful for this situation. Anyone who is seriously ill is not going to function at their best. In your house, there are three adults who are seriously ill, and your mom's situation has been described by you as terminal, so I don't think it is helpful to see her behavior as calculated to be the center of attention or running the household through her mental illness-it sounds to me like she is just hanging on, and not capable of making the positive changes that you would like to see as your own health stabilizes and gets better.
...
Yes, you are right. The puppy image isnt the best way to view this situation. I dont see OP's mother as being calculating, but I think she could make some efforts toward lessoning the impact of her OCD and hoarding behaviors. I guess she is too physically ill to do that.

I like the advice from OP's therapist, to realistically analyze how much it would cost to get rid of the basement hoard. i do that myself in my head with DH's stuff. He is not a hoarder but his shelves are all packed full with stuff. It really doesnt take much time to chuck it all out.

[Tybee]

Well, I do fantasize about burning down our shed. lol....

[freshstart]

thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

I can't really leave unless I move into housing for the disabled, which is in the inner-city and a good half hour drive from here. and it's horrible. Plus, they can't afford to buy me out. so it's an empty threat I should not be making, it's not helpful during the heat of the moment, it just feels good to say it. When I say it, I later regret it as it is childish behavior, much like my mother's.

the chair came and it is bigger than it looked in the store and my mom is having a fit. I finally said, "Stop. We all agreed he needed this, he has it, it fits him, the color matches the decor, it's done." And she backed off. Her sister arrives today to de-hoard her room again so it should be quiet for me on the mom front for a few days. I'm looking forward to it.

[iris lilies]

Well, I do fantasize about burning down our shed. lol....

My DH gave me such a gift recently. He told me that our falling down greenhouse is entirely mine to do with as I like. It and everything in it--if I decide it should go, it will go. Yay!

and yah, it needs to go.

[Zoe Girl]

Yes, you are right. The puppy image isnt the best way to view this situation. I dont see OP's mother as being calculating, but I think she could make some efforts toward lessoning the impact of her OCD and hoarding behaviors. I guess she is too physically ill to do that.
.

I think our stories, either waking ones or ones that come in dreams, are very informative. They just show us what is important on an emotional level. They get to be a problem when we get stuck in them being the one and only truth instead of something to guide us towards a better situation.