court did not go well

[freshstart]

DD moved in with her dad when I was sick and she was also living with her grandmother who has a hard to take end stage disease. It was supposed to be temporary but when I improved, she decided to stay there (there are no rules and dad spends most of his time at his GF's). Fine, that hurt and her behavior was very bad towards me for a while. She's slowly coming around but we don't have our old, very close relationship.

DS moved in with his dad at 15. From the age of 5, he bought every lie my ex has told about me and raising him was extremely difficult. For a long time we had no relationship. He has been at trade school in AZ since Aug and has not returned a single text. I was not involved in any of his school planning, nor asked to contribute. He took a year off from HS and worked full time. My lawyer says he emancipated himself from me.

Ex (makes over 100k and is about to receive a huge inheritance from an aunt who was married to a game show host) gets $982 a month in child support for DD from my SSDI. This is double what he would've got if I was working full time. He took me to court today because he wants more child support for both kids. We argued DS emancipated himself. They threatened to put DS on the stand and we would have to drill him on all the ways he emancipated himself and I would have to listen to him say what a terrible human being I am.

So because I will not risk any chance of a future relationship DS, we're not taking the emancipation route and having a trial. We negotiated. He settled for $350 more a month in child support. He wants half of the 18k he says he spent on the trade school. However, DD told me he used the 9k SSDI settlement he received and DS paid the rest. So my lawyer has to look into that and she said there is no way in hell we are paying half. I really like my lawyer and she was very upfront, she said that she as a mother herself would accept having to pay the money before putting her child through an emancipation hearing. (Please don't say I need a new lawyer, I'm just sad and bitching and moaning here)

I am sickened. The only way I can pay $350 a month is if I stop paying some of the household bills and my parents pick up the slack. I feel like such a loser taking money from them and for having ended up in such bad places with my two kids whom I love more than anything. But I know if Adam has to come home from AZ to testify at an emancipation hearing, I will lose him forever. I would never have spoken to my parents again if they had tried to say I had emancipated myself.

thanks for listening

[Selah]

I'm very sorry to hear this, freshstart. It sounds desperately unfair and complicated, and I'm so sorry the children have been used so maliciously by your ex. I have no practical advice to give, but I'm very sorry you're hurting.

[Tybee]

I am so sorry--this really sucks. Did the court order you pay more or was this a settlement between you? I am confused and I feel so badly for you. I am glad you have a good lawyer, she sounds very thoughtful and like she gets it. How old are your children, again?

[freshstart]

the court didn't order anything because I am trying to avoid a trial where my son would have to take the stand. So we are working with the other side to come to an agreement. So far the child support agreement did not go well. My ex is very greedy to not accept the almost 1k he gets from SSDI

thank you for your kind words

[rosarugosa]

I'm sorry, Freshstart. I would think your ex wouldn't accept anything from you given your current circumstances, let alone try to get more. Sounds like a real SOB.

[catherine]

freshstart, this is terrible--I'm so sorry.

I don't get it-Why do you have to give more child support given the huge disparity in your earnings?? Can you renegotiate when your ex gets his inheritance??

[freshstart]

In NYS there is a minimum based on income for the non-custodial parent that stands no matter what the other party earns. So I am lucking out at $350, the NYS minimum would be $549. Of course, I could roll the dice and see if the judge agrees the ex is being greedy and she takes into acct that half my income goes towards medical but then we go to trial and Adam and I testify against each other. And that I just can't do. I'd rather scrimp and barely limp along than lose any chance of him ever being in my life.

I'm not sure how the inheritance will come into play, I'm sure my lawyer will use it to our advantage.

[freshstart]

I'm sorry, Freshstart. I would think your ex wouldn't accept anything from you given your current circumstances, let alone try to get more. Sounds like a real SOB.

He really has spent the entire divorce trying to "get" me. I'd get sued for something stupid every year. He hated paying child support, I eventually had to get a ruling that the checks be mailed because he was so scary when handing them over. So all of this is sweet revenge to him. Any other man making 100k and getting almost a grand a month in child support from SSDI would be happy. He knows exactly how precarious my financial situation is and he is reveling in it. My shrink thinks he's a sociopath (without meeting him, lol) and I totally agree. A real man does not set out to destroy his kids' relationships with their mother. Yet if you met him at a party, you'd think, wow, what a nice guy! Not.

[CathyA]

So sorry to hear this freshstart. (((((hugs))))) I hope things can work out for you, and you can continue to work on getting closer to your children again.

[Teacher Terry]

I don't even know what to say. what a horrible person he is. How can he not have empathy for your situation? Sending hugs:))

[Lainey]

sorry freshstart. It's even more infuriating that the legal system is not able to block these crazy exes from inflicting financial and emotional damage. Hang in there.

[iris lilies]

This stinks, so sorry you are experiencing this.

[iris lilies]

What happens when your daughter goes to college? What if she picks a $60, 000/year school? Will you have to pay half? Do you get a say as to where she goes and how much you can afford?

I dont know how the court decides how much each parent has to pay, but for parents who have not split up, kids have to live within the means of the family household.

[Tybee]

What happens when ypumdaughter goes to college? What of she picks a $60, 000/year school? Will you have to pay half? Do you get a say as to where she goes and hw much you can afford?

I dont know how the court decides how mch each parent has to pay, but for parents who have not split up, kids have to live within the means of the family household.
In my state yes div parents were compelled to pay for college while non divorced were not
Very unfair

[freshstart]

I'm only obligated to pay half the equivalent of a State school- tuition and room and board, which right now would be 10k

I hope I'm not ruining my financial future by agreeing to the $350 a month in support and a TBD amt of Adam's 18k trade school all in the hopes of having a future relationship with my son. He plans to return home to seek jobs after school so I have a shot at seeing him. Maybe I'm being foolish and should let the judge decide but putting Adam on the stand regurgitating all the lies my ex has told him about me would kill me and ruin any chance of a future after I get up there and say all the terrible things he's done. It's a no win situation. Well, it's a huge win for my ex.

I'm having a hard time swallowing his greed. He's getting almost 1k a month from SSDI and that's not good enough.

[catherine]

He's getting almost 1k a month from SSDI and that's not good enough.

So that doesn't go toward the NYS minimum? You still have to pay out-of-pocket? It still doesn't make sense to me.

[Tybee]

I know this isnt what you want to hear, and I totally get why, but if it were my call, I would say to heck with it and go for the court hearing and let the chips fall where they may. Just tell the truth and let the judge sort it out.

I would figure my son was smart and could figure it out that I loved him and I needed to tell the truth. It seems like ex operates through fear, including getting you afraid to defend yourself in court.
I can't imagine the court would grill your son or make him uncomfortable. I would think the court needs to see that you are disabled and that this guy is bullying you and using your son to do it, and I can't imagine that the court would like that.

But whichever way you decide will be the right thing, as you are listening to your heart.

[freshstart]

So that doesn't go toward the NYS minimum? You still have to pay out-of-pocket? It still doesn't make sense to me.

yes, the law states that the SSDI payments don’t have to count towards child support and they acted before the judge two cases of when the court agreed.

Tybee, my ex is brutal and he is coming for me like he hasn't in a very long time. I think I'm right to fear him right now. And someday, I want my son back, that won't happen if we say the things he did and he says the lies his father will tell him to say. I am not strong enough to go through that and come out the other side any semblance of ok.

[iris lilies]

OP, your strategy seems reasonable to me, I am just sorry that you have to do this.

The $350, or support for son, doesnt go on forever.

[19Sandy]

I didn't know SSDI payments even went that high. Most states have a percentage system and if you are disabled they can't go beyond a certain percentage.

[Tybee]

Tybee, my ex is brutal and he is coming for me like he hasn't in a very long time. I think I'm right to fear him right now. And someday, I want my son back, that won't happen if we say the things he did and he says the lies his father will tell him to say. I am not strong enough to go through that and come out the other side any semblance of ok.

Sounds llike you are making a very wise decision, then, as you know what you can bear and the effect it would have on your son.
Again, so very sorry you have to go through this right now.

[Mary B.]

Sounds llike you are making a very wise decision, then, as you know what you can bear and the effect it would have on your son.
Again, so very sorry you have to go through this right now.

You are making a difficult and thoughtful decision. So sorry you are experiencing this vindictiveness.

[iris lilies]

In my state yes div parents were compelled to pay for college while non divorced were not
Very unfair
Yikes, yes that is not reasonable.

[freshstart]

the problem is SSDI ends for him when DD graduates in June. I know he will take me back to court to cover that money and I truly don't have more to give. Hopefully, DS will have finished luthier school and found a job by then (he graduates in Feb) or we run into the whole "give me this much in child support or I'm putting Adam on the stand" crap again. To me once he finishes luthier school, he should be emancipated. I pray that happens so I'm only dealing with DD.

[Tybee]

the problem is SSDI ends for him when DD graduates in June. I know he will take me back to court to cover that money and I truly don't have more to give. Hopefully, DS will have finished luthier school and found a job by then (he graduates in Feb) or we run into the whole "give me this much in child support or I'm putting Adam on the stand" crap again. To me once he finishes luthier school, he should be emancipated. I pray that happens so I'm only dealing with DD.

What does your lawyer say bout emancipation in New York? Is it really 21, like I read somewhere? Seems very difficult.

Your point about him holding this over you and doing it again after Feb if your son does not get a job--that is why I said if I were in your shoes, I'd roll the dice and say be my guest. But again, I am not in your shoes, and you sound like you are comfortable with your decision.

It just seems like he is holding you and your son hostage, and I would rebel against that, since I would say, hey, in the long run, the truth will out and son will have to deal with that; I can't protect him against his father's lies anymore.

That was the reasoning behind my saying I would just go to court.

But again, you feel differently, I know, and you are the only one who can decide.

For context--in my situation I knew ex husband would manipulate the process, as he was a litigator. Ironically, I did better in court than in any kind of negotation between attorneys. In court,the judge ordered the kids be interviewed by a social worker, then he decided custody. Judge reprimanded ex husband.

Their father lied to them consistently about me and they bought it for a while, I guess, but now 18 years later, they have no relationship with him at all, and a solid relationship with me. But then he is a lunatic, and they tried very hard to have arelationship with him, but that is their business, not mine. In a perfect world, kids would have a solid relationshi pwith both parents.

[JaneV2.0]

I'm with Tybee; you plainly can't afford to pay any more, and I don't see why that isn't plain to the court system--which should decide.
A legal emancipation should be on record. Have you investigated that?

[Ultralight]

I think you ought to see if the press could pick up your story.

[Teacher Terry]

If you are going to face this again in Feb I would just go to trial now. I am sure the judge will take into consideration your disability, income and your ex's, etc.

[iris lilies]

I think you ought to see if the press could pick up your story.
I am curious to know what you think is the "story" here? And the imagined outcome?

This would appear to me as ratcheting up conflict with a vindictive spouse, not a good idea.

[Ultralight]

My thought is that if the judge is not helping, the ex-husband is a psycho, and the kids treat her bad then maybe some bad press on them all might shame them into easing off her a bit.

[iris lilies]

I'm with Tybee; you plainly can't afford to pay any more, and I don't see why that isn't plain to the court system--which should decide.
A legal emancipation should be on record. Have you investigated that?

I think they are talking about her son's current status is one of being emancipated in a legal sense, but it hasnt been officially recorded legally, so there is nothing on record.

[JaneV2.0]

I think they are talking about her son's current status is one of being emancipated in a legal sense, but it hasnt been officially recorded legally, so there is nothing on record.

If it's not a legal emancipation, then there would be no point in having him testify, as there's no status change. It's a moot point.

[Tybee]

If it's not a legal emancipation, then there would be no point in having him testify, as there's no status change. It's a moot point.

Jane, I think it is different in NY, and they do not issue emancipation orders--this explains how it is handled, and it is different than a state in which a child would be declared emancipated in an emancipation order. The finding of emancipation can only come in connection with something else, according to this explanation:

http://www.lawny.org/index.php/family-self-help-140/other-family-law-self-help-75/142-emancipation

So a parent could go to court and say, I don't owe child support because child emancipated himself by refusing to obey rules, by moving out, etc. etc., and that would probably require testimony from the child.

At least that is the way I read it.

[freshstart]

what Tybee is saying is what I've been told. I am not willing to testify against my son in his presence and then have him testify against me with all of his father's lies. I would lose him forever.

I was upset about the possibility of going through all this again either when Claire graduates and he loses SSDI or Adam finishes school and doesn't get a job, how much am I on the hook? So I called my lawyer. When DD graduates and he loses the $1000 a month from SSDI, he can't get more than what he is getting because $350 a month is the legal max for my income in NY. If Adam finishes luthier school, he is obligated to find some full time work and I should be off the hook with him.

So I'm looking at $350 a month until DD is 21 (she is 17), 1/2 the equivalent of a State school for her and the only undetermined thing left is how much of DS's school my lawyer will be able to negotiate. She's saying it should be prorata according to our incomes, which would be good for me since I make 25% of what he makes. But I doubt they will settle for that. She also said when DD goes to college, we will go to court and ask the judge to reconsider my share in light of my financial circumstances, I have nothing to lose then except more legal bills.

my shrink just told me, however it all falls out, to accept it, let it go because dwelling on it is killing me. He thinks I have enough in retirement to make up for this set back (even though he's not my accountant, lol), my ex is not doing anything illegal, he's just being a greedy, enormous jerk. And in 4 yrs it will finally be totally over with him. He can never sue me again.

I hate my ex so much for doing this to me. Honestly, if the shoe was on the other foot and I was getting $1000 a month from SSDI, I would be thrilled and would leave him alone if I knew he was in bad shape. Especially if I made 100k and was about to inherit 1/3 of a huge estate. It's always bugged me how he did so many rotten things to me in our marriage yet he has played the aggrieved party for 14 yrs. He's convinced the kids that I'm the bad one. I don't think I'll ever get over that, maybe if I get my kids' hearts back but I doubt it. I can never forgive him for what he has done even though I know not forgiving him only hurts me in the end.

[margene]

Hugs to you Freshstart. Your ex sound like a horrible person. At some point I believe your children will realize what he has done to you.

[Zoe Girl]

I am just sending much metta. My answer to everything is meditation practice of course. There is a lot of work here though, I did eventually let go of bitterness towards my ex, I will say that yours sounds worse. Lots of compassion work, first for myself of course. Forgiveness is not about letting go of everything, it is about letting go of holding that pain in yourself. If you let go of the pain for a moment then you can have peace for a moment. Let yourself have those moments as they come up.

None of us goes into parenthood expecting our kids to turn against us, but you are not the only one by far. Sometimes connecting to others who have issues with grown or almost grown kids can be supportive.

[freshstart]

thanks, guys. I'm working on a meditation book on CD right now, I still find it very hard but I will keep trying. That's helpful advice about peace and pain.

[beckyliz]

Nothing to add, just more hugs.

[freshstart]

thank you