the Great Clean Out starts Sat!

[freshstart]

So my friend from Burlington arrives tomorrow night to start on dehoarding the basement. Her sister likes projects so she is coming too (which is good because we don't know her all that well so everyone will have to be on their best behavior). The cleaning lady (really, another friend) is helping, too. My VT friend plans on 3 weekends to do the job! I'm excited and dreading this all at the same time. My friend asked us to go through the basement together ahead of time and see if we could put post its on things to get rid of. That didn't go so well. My father is insisting on keeping two treadmills and this ancient rocker/exercise thing that used to be popular in the 80s (the last time it was used), there's no way he can fold his arthritic body onto this cramped piece of equipment. We have 3 sick people in this house but we need two treadmills? Arghhh.

One of the goals is to get rid of stuff I will not use or take with me when my parents pass and I move on. That sounds cold but really it was the only way to get through to them that this dehoarding needed to happen, that they should picture me calling 1-800-GOT-JUNK and having it all hauled away when they died. And yet they still refuse to get rid of anything remotely useful. Like a worn recliner that smells like dog that even they admit they wouldn't put in a room. "It was $800," well, they got $800 use out of it, let it freaking go. My mother wants to keep cheap lamps I bought over the years in case a lamp upstairs goes belly up, we're talking ten yr old $20 Target lamps with bent shades that are meant for a child's room. My mother didn't put a post it on one item and left the basement screaming and crying.

I know she's a hoarder but I think part of this is her facing her dying, too. Hearing me say, "keep the recliner, but it isn't coming with me when I move out of here," really means, "when you're gone, it's getting the heave ho," kwim?

this is going to be a very hard process. My friend said at the worst, we leave it all and when they die, they will help me get rid of it all. She is such a good friend.

oh and my mom refused to get any anxiety meds for this weekend, great. Whoever said that, that was a great idea if she wasn't such a PITA, lol. She's on the max dose of cymbalta for OCD, it's not working. We're going to have to treat her with kid gloves.

[iris lilies]

Well, I am tentitively thinking you may get rid of some stuff. But being the skeptic I am, I doubt this project will clean out your basement unless you all ignore the old folks and I don't see how that can happen. But I wish you well! And, I hope that it turns out to be a bit fun for the people coming from out f state because they will be spending a LOT of their time on what may turn out to be minimal outcome.

Here's to a good clean out! [clinking wine glasses] and I hope you have a way to remove immediately from your property any items approved for jettisoning.

[19Sandy]

I think the facing the death thing is spot on!

What would happen if your mother and father left the house for the day, and you just got rid of the stuff?

I know it is their house and stuff but maybe you just need to take charge since you live there and are a caregiver.

[iris lilies]

I think the facing the death thing is spot on!

What would happen if your mother and father left the house for the day, and you just got rid of the stuff?

I know it is their house and stuff but maybe you just need to take charge since you live there and are a caregiver.
Thats a good idea, having the parents gone.

[freshstart]

it will never happen because they are hoarders (one worse than the other), they both need to see what leaves the house. I offered to put them up in a nice hotel with a nice dinner if they would trust us to make good decisions, they looked at me like I have two heads. It wasn't well thought out as she is in a hospital bed. Even if they would go to the movies for two hours and let us get a good start. The sort of good thing is my mother will not last long down there so a lot will come up without her ok but I think she will insist on seeing anything that leaves.

my expectations are low that way I may be pleasantly surprised. I have lots of beer and good food and gifts for the people who help. I can't believe they are doing this, we are paying the cleaning lady.

[19Sandy]

Even on hoarders, the relatives or friends just throw stuff away. If your mother is in a hospital bed and dad can't get downstairs, then they can't stop it. It is like pulling off a band-aid, do it quick. Take a crowbar and smash that exercise equipment and use a knife to slash that chair. I know they will get mad and have a temper-tantrum but just get it over with.

[freshstart]

my dad can get downstairs, my mom can for short periods. I don't think smashing things is the right approach, rather gentle but with a firm back bone. They don't take input on this issue well from me but they do really well with my friend from VT and the cleaning lady. My friend from VT is just very practical and firm and will keep saying, "someone else could be using this," and the cleaning lady is so sweet, my mom trusts her to give her good advice. Like it's ok to throw away her mother's electric bills who died in 1988. That box is finally going or I am, lol.

[19Sandy]

When I am on the bubble about getting rid of something with memories that has no resale value, I destroy it completely. Very cathartic.

Rip, break, slash or burn - it has to go.

Sometimes, you got to intervene.

[Zoe Girl]

That has got to be painful, I really love to clean out and declutter! I would go nuts. And my personality would probably just ruin any relationship by dumping anything and everything. So I think you are doing great, but I get the heebies even thinking going over to my daughter's house.

[JayPee]

Thinking of how much things cost in the past is the worst thing you can do while dehoarding. Always makes a feeling that as you spend quite a bit money for it, maybe you should keep it for use someday. If you take a look at it a bit analytically, you see a different picture.

The money you spend for something is gone. Gone in the moment you paid it. You will never get it back, so forget about it!

If you look at some stuff some years later you have no use for anymore, you have several alternatives:

1. Keep -> Uses space, makes you a bad consience as you do not use it, might even cost you money (e.g. for the space)
2. Throw away -> Saves space
3. Donate -> Saves space, is useful to somebody else, gives you a good feeling
4. Sell -> Saves space, brings you some money, is useful to somebody else

So keeping stuff you don't need is obviously the worst alternative you can chose.

The problem is that most people are emotional not analytical when they are decluttering. I think it is the same with your parents. Currently, I am also decluttering and sold quite a few things my wife was not really convinced of. We had quite a few disuccions, but finally I made everything ready for sale. Only seeing that pile of stuff lying everywhere in our house convinced her, and now that most of it is out of the house she is revlieved about it. We will also be going out from the money we made ;-)

[greenclaire]

Good luck, sounds like you'll all need it!

I don't know if it'll help at all but you could share a story about an elderly couple who lives close to me. They had an extremely cluttered house and weer both mass hoarders. Their house actually caught fire and due to the amount of stuff they had it spread so quickly and because they had very little room to actually move in they didn't get out of the house in time. It's still being investigated by the fire team but from what I've read and heard locally it seems pretty sure that it was the hoarding that lead to their sad deaths.

[Chicken lady]

Freshstart, I just want to wrap my arms around you. You are so patient, and you never give up hope.

please make sure that anything they agree to let go goes right away. Even if someone has to make 5 trips to the thrift store and it slows you down. Send the recycling away, don't keep it for curbside pick up. Send the trash away if you can. That way, at least some of it will actually be gone. There will be no second guessing, and maybe they can see that getting rid of the stuff was ok. It's really hard at first, but if you really let the stuff go, it gets easier.

do you think it would help your mom to think of the old papers getting recycled and saving a tree? When I first started cleaning out, recycling was my life line.

[Ultralight]

I hope the clean-out is unprecedented. Be ruthless!!!!!

[sweetana3]

In business, it is called sunk cost. The money is spent. The value is what a willing buyer would pay not in any way what it cost or even a % of what it cost. Just pure and simple "what would a willing buyer at arms length pay for the item right now as it is?"

Buyers want the items to be in good condition:
Damaged (discolored, moldy, smelly from smoke or anything, broken) = value nothing
Heavy or hard to move = lots less value
Outdated = lots less value
Personal = probably worth nothing to anyone else

[freshstart]

thanks for all the advice and support!

one good thing is our town is having a massive recycling (including things like clothes and small appliances) day tomorrow so all that stuff can go go go

[19Sandy]

You know how some folks have nose blindness, some people have clutter blindness. However, if they see a photograph or video, it looks completely different.

If there is easy decluttering at a free or reduced price, then don't delay!

Now is a good time before the weather turns bad.

A home feels spacious, open and cleaner from NOT having piles of stuff that emit chemicals.

Your parents and your health will likely improve.

It is also good mentally.

Do It!

[freshstart]

you and I can do that easily, we're not hoarders. My mother (pretty significant hoarder, probably diagnosable as OCD with hoarding component) and my father (more run of the mill hoarder) cannot just let go of the stuff without their boundaries being respected and a lot of TLC along the way. Also, understanding and patience that I myself do not possess , but the rest of the team does.

we were just talking about it as a family and it started getting heated. We definitely need a team present to get anything done.

then my mother said the way my dad leaves magazines out on the ottoman for me really bugs her (clutter). So she launched into if we just buy the right storage options, we can keep everything. She was bemoaning that she had let my father get rid of his ugly magazine rack/end table, it was particle board and butt ugly and even he agreed to give it the heave ho. If only we had that back, she said. I stood up and placed the magazines on the totally empty shelves of the end tables. She still obsessed about that perfect magazine rack. She wanted me to take her to Walmart and look at storage options for the basement. I refused. I said we will look at storage options for the stuff we have left when we are done.

then the cleaning lady came in and that defused things. She stopped by to say how excited she is to be part of this and how good it will look and feel when we are done. That helped change the mood.

[19Sandy]

I can't wait to hear the results, you are in my thoughts freshstart.

[JayPee]

This inspired me a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7rewjFNiys

[freshstart]

so far, so not too awful. We established corners for each family member. Because I had purged before I moved, it was just a matter of finding my bins and arranging them. We laid down the ugly rug and my dad's treadmill and that crazy piece of exercise equipment are on it, he's happy. Two recliners went in my friend's van to be donated and the third (the most expensive one) went in the family room even though that makes it really crowded in there. 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Some other big pieces went out but my dad is insisting on keeping a big entertainment center that holds an old fashioned tv/vcr combo because he's sure he has videos he wants to see again. Even though all our family videos were converted to DVD years ago.

My mother had an oxygen machine problem and had to stay upstairs awhile so we snuck a few things out that she thought were already gone. She came down and didn't notice. She has been horrible. Won't get rid of anything, not even a basket that is coming unweaved. Luckily, on some really obvious trash items, she'd say ok if my father agreed, my father didn't care and we were able to get rid of about half a trash bag. There is a whole wall with boxes stacked labeled "TO BE FILED". She wants to keep clothes 3 sizes down. It's bad. If I say word one she starts yelling. So finally I just left. To Molly and Aline she is perfectly nice to and they aren't pushing her too hard this time, they're just putting her stuff in her very large corner. Molly and Aline are sorting like items with like items and putting them in labeled bins. They said when she dies, the work is done and we just have to get rid of the bins. This makes sense to me and keeps my mom happy. But I'm sick of being treated like crap so I'm hiding for a bit.

[Chicken lady]

Freshstart, that is great really. Two big pieces of furniture gone, and you can find all your stuff!

and your friends are right, you will be able to just say "take everything in this corner."

maybe be when the basement is done, your sad will realize he doesn't have the videos, and then you can clean out another big thing...

[freshstart]

This inspired me a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7rewjFNiys

this just made my day, it helped me so much when at the end he said "love people, use things", not the other way around. I will be more patient. thank you, JayPee, I;m showing this to everyone

[JayPee]

Glad you liked it. http://www.theminimalists.com/ was one of the first websites I found when I started my minimalist journey. Helped me to see things from a different perspective: It is not about decluttering and what or how many items you have. It is about if your stuff adds value to your life or not. And the answer is up to you, it's your decision. Furthermore, it is not only about stuff. But money, time, relationships. And again, it's your decision. You don't have to be a vegan digital nomad with just 20 items in a backpack to live a simple life. It is about YOU, what YOU need and what adds value to YOUR life. Sounds a bit selfish first, but as Joshua said in the video also the people around you wil gain something from it.

Although not everything went the way you wished, it is a start. Keep going, fngers crossed ;-)

[19Sandy]

Good job. Maybe you all can read Marie Kondo's Spark Joy book to motivate mom. It is a tiny book.

I will have to check out that site JayPee. I plan to do more decluttering too.

[freshstart]

JayPee, you're so right.

I just spent dinner and conversation with everyone and when I see my mom around healthy people I realize I sometimes don't cut her enough slack. She really is very sick and I'm expecting her to act in a manner completely different than her norm when she is at her worst physically. What is the big deal if I have to haul crap out when she dies? Like my friends said, they will be there to help me when that time comes. Now that it's getting organized and shelved instead of falling out of broken boxes, I don't have the anxiety I had about it. I would love her to wake up and get rid of piles of stuff but the video reminded me of what is important first, the person.

[freshstart]

Good job. Maybe you all can read Marie Kondo's Spark Joy book to motivate mom. It is a tiny book.

I will have to check out that site JayPee. I plan to do more decluttering too.

she doesn't really read anymore but I explained the concept when I did my stuff. I might show her some of the youtube videos. Especially when we really get into her clothes.

[Teacher Terry]

It sounds like your friends did a great job and have a good plan. Also glad that you were able to get rid of some big items.

[freshstart]

done with the first weekend! I am really happy with my section that is organized, I have some more purging to do, things I haven;t used in a really long time. But it's all right there neatly stacked for me to work on. I'm thinking of donating all the free with coupons toiletries that I have a ton of but it will save us money to use them rather than have to buy more, IDK.

my parents really didn't do that great (3 sets of golf clubs and my dad can't golf anymore and 5 (!) really old printers), they kept a ton but it's starting to be organized at least

we found that butt ugly magazine rack/end table from the 70s that my mother was wishing she had in the LR the other day. When she wasn't looking, out the door it went since she already thought it was long gone. My father wants to set up the aquarium from the 80s but he never keeps them clean and they are a lot of work if you don't keep up with them. I might get him one of those beta fish swimming in a vase with a pretty plant on top instead.

done, we don't convene for 2 weeks, done, done, done, yay!

[Chicken lady]

Can you bribe your dad with the beta fish? "If you let the aquarium go, I will get you a beta fish when it is gone"?

I would use the toiletries, but if it's stuff with expiration dates, donate what you won't use up.

[pony mom]

I might get him one of those beta fish swimming in a vase with a pretty plant on top instead.


Please don't do that. They don't thrive in that environment and aren't as hardy as petstores lead you to believe. They do best in an aquarium at least 3-5 gallons; just as much work.

[freshstart]

I did not know that, thank you

[Chicken lady]

How is everyone today?

[freshstart]

good so far!