View Full Version : Trump A ‘Backlash,’ Dems ‘A Boutique Party of Fake Outrage and Social Engineering'
Ultralight
11-13-16, 9:14am
Bill Maher really hits the nail on the head for this one.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/11/11/maher-trump-election-a-backlash-dems-a-boutique-party-of-fake-outrage-and-social-engineering/
Bill Maher really hits the nail on the head for this one.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/11/11/maher-trump-election-a-backlash-dems-a-boutique-party-of-fake-outrage-and-social-engineering/
I'm not sure I'd agree with the boutique part. There's a pretty big market for fake outrage and social engineering out there.
He must be thrilled at how rapidly political correctness went out the window. Apparently in addition to everything I've been reading online there's also been a couple of guys in ski masks driving around the Castro every night since the election shouting assorted phrases involving the word faggot at people.
And his timeline is wrong. The democratic party gave up on working class voters exactly 24 years ago, not 8 or 10 years ago.
Zoe Girl
11-14-16, 11:49am
He needs to immediately use all his media savvy to remind people that hate crime laws are still on the books and when he is president he will be sworn in to uphold those laws. In my media feed and in the school system I work in this started happening the next day. Not sure if everyone is aware of this since media outlets pick and choose.
JaneV2.0
11-14-16, 12:35pm
Republicans don't recognize the classification "hate crimes."
Republicans don't recognize the classification "hate crimes."Sure we do, we just wonder why we must treat the same crime differently depending upon certain characteristics of the victim. Justitia isn't supposed to peek through her blindfold.
iris lilies
11-14-16, 1:23pm
He must be thrilled at how rapidly political correctness went out the window. Apparently in addition to everything I've been reading online there's also been a couple of guys in ski masks driving around the Castro every night since the election shouting assorted phrases involving the word faggot at people.
And his timeline is wrong. The democratic party gave up on working class voters exactly 24 years ago, not 8 or 10 years ago.
Jp it is too bad that idiots are acting out in your neighborhood. That is a crock of chit.
Jp it is too bad that idiots are acting out in your neighborhood. That is a crock of chit.
If they keep doing it for too long eventually they are going to live out a meme that keeps floating across my Facebook feed. "He called me a faggot. I called him an ambulance." I suppose the second amendment lovers should be happy. I've actually had two gay friends start discussions about whether they should buy guns and take training classes.
iris lilies
11-14-16, 1:49pm
If they keep doing it for too long eventually they are going to live out a meme that keeps floating across my Facebook feed. "He called me a faggot. I called him an ambulance." I suppose the second amendment lovers should be happy. I've actually had two gay friends start discussions about whether they should buy guns and take training classes.
Violence in your immediate area, if you are not accustomed to it, is certainly an occasion to evaluate personal possession and use of firearms.
see, the HRC voters are the resident shooters and illegal possessors of firearms and creators criminal mayhem around here. They are not emboldened by her however, I am not claiming that.
ApatheticNoMore
11-14-16, 1:50pm
Yea but I'm not sure there is that much evidence that Dems actually lost (and here we are counting winning the popular vote as losing fyi) BECAUSE they lost the white working class. It makes a good story, but I'm not sure the data actually supports it. I'm not saying there is not suffering in the white working class, just not sure it's causative of the election. The most suffering people in society have historically not voted in very large proportion. Trump got less votes than Romney or McCain afterall and didn't really seem to get any more white votes than them. But Hillary lost a lot of blacks that had turned out for Obama as well.
Are they a party of fake outrage? Well yea, but that is widespread in politics, like Republicans angry at deficits until they are in power. But as for some Dem partisans, that's because they are never outraged by their own policies even though I find these policies a horror show (I may well find Trump policies the same). Horrible, horrible, trade agreements that Obama kept pushing are dead (TPP, TPIP at least). Rejoice. Trump maybe was the final nail (although bad policy the elites wants tends not to die but be like a horror movie villain that keeps awaking from the dead - but we have a breather for now on that).
Teacher Terry
11-14-16, 2:34pm
Only half of eligible voters voted in this election which I find very sad. 4.3 million people have signed a petition to award the electoral college to Clinton. In many states electors can be faithless and vote what they want.
iris lilies
11-14-16, 2:41pm
Only half of eligible voters voted in this election which I find very sad. 4.3 million people have signed a petition to award the electoral college to Clinton. In many states electors can be faithless and vote what they want.
The electoral college in my state had better honor the vote in my state. Why they would honor the votes of people in New York City is beyond me.
That said, if the shoe were in the other foot, I know with absolute certainty, that Trump supporters would be loud and annoying in crying foul at the bad, corrupt electoral college system.
If they keep doing it for too long eventually they are going to live out a meme that keeps floating across my Facebook feed. "He called me a faggot. I called him an ambulance." I suppose the second amendment lovers should be happy. I've actually had two gay friends start discussions about whether they should buy guns and take training classes.
I spent 15 years teaching people in the Castro about guns, knives, kubotans, tear gas, and unarmed combat...
That said, words alone should not draw a physically-violent response.
Teacher Terry
11-14-16, 2:49pm
Occasionally a few electors have been unfaithful in the past. That is one of the purposes of the electoral college. If people are too stupid on how to vote they step in.
I spent 15 years teaching people in the Castro about guns, knives, kubotans, tear gas, and unarmed combat...
That said, words alone should not draw a physically-violent response.
To be sure, it won't be me doing a violent response to words. If that was going to happen it would've happened in seventh grade biology class, the first time in my life that I was called a fag. If it didn't happen then it's not going to happen now that I'm a 49 year old man. If I feel physically threatened, on the other hand, I may finally use my dad's one piece of advice about fighting; go for the sucker punch.
Occasionally a few electors have been unfaithful in the past. That is one of the purposes of the electoral college. If people are too stupid on how to vote they step in.
There's a historical listing of all the faithless electors here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector , although I don't think you'll find any examples of their faithlessness being some imagined duty to protect the country from stupid people.
I also can't believe anyone would think that appropriate. If you want to take the responsibility of government out of the hands of the hoi polloi and assign the responsibility solely to the elites, just say so.
Teacher Terry
11-14-16, 4:57pm
No Alan, I want the electoral college gone and for the people to elect the President. In fact I signed a petition. If a Republican that knew what he was doing (for instance J Bush ) won I would not be upset. It is the fact that someone that has no clue what he is doing, incites violence, has turned all his business ventures into piles of s**t, etc is going to be running our country. It would make a great horror movie if it wasn't true.
The electoral college ensures that individual states are fairly represented, much like state primaries or caucuses are used to choose a candidate. If you get rid of one, should you also get rid of the other? If so, are you ok with the people of California, New York and Florida choosing your candidates for you?
The whole "Senate" business is a bit dodgy too.
I mean, California, with nearly 39 million people, only gets two Senators. Wyoming, with only 586 thousand citizens, gets two Senators as well.
Doesn't seem remotely fair....
(And that "super-delegate" stuff seems contrary to Democracy... Maybe I don't understand how it works...)
goldensmom
11-14-16, 5:36pm
The electoral college ensures that individual states are fairly represented, much like state primaries or caucuses are used to choose a candidate. If you get rid of one, should you also get rid of the other? If so, are you ok with the people of California, New York and Florida choosing your candidates for you?
State elections are by popular vote and in the state in which I reside, historically, 3 urban counties of 84 counties in the state have determined the outcome of state elections. Irritating for us rural county voters. If not for the electoral college in presidential elections, we voters in rural counties need note vote.
Teacher Terry
11-14-16, 5:51pm
One person-one vote-period. Bae, I think the super delegate is a bunch of crap. Originally there were no super delegates. I forgot what year this came into being.
iris lilies
11-14-16, 7:19pm
State elections are by popular vote and in the state in which I reside, historically, 3 urban counties of 84 counties in the state have determined the outcome of state elections. Irritating for us rural county voters. If not for the electoral college in presidential elections, we voters in rural counties need note vote.
We have two blue urban centers and they are q by the red rural dwellers, and the red suburban land.
so there's that, which is a nice counterpoint t to being a red voter in a neon blue city.
https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/883270108382513/
That link is a summary of why we don't have a direct democracy
Teacher Terry
11-14-16, 8:29pm
Yes I have seen that before. I signed a petition as did 4.3 million other people so far. I hope it becomes a movement.
Yes I have seen that before. I signed a petition as did 4.3 million other people so far. I hope it becomes a movement.
Well, about half of American adults believe astrology is a science, so that'll end well.
Bill Maher really hits the nail on the head for this one.
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/11/11/maher-trump-election-a-backlash-dems-a-boutique-party-of-fake-outrage-and-social-engineering/
+1
Some of the social engineering is subsidizing student loan debt for people whose occupations they deem worthier than other people's.
Maher is right. The backlash did help elect Trump. Thank you for posting this insightful article UL.
Some of the social engineering is subsidizing student loan debt for people whose occupations they deem worthier than other people's.
Are you resurrecting every old thread you can find just so you can make yet another snarky comment about student loans and the people who have them?
Not all student loans and loan holders, only the ones I have to subsidize for people who earn more than me and jet around the world.
But don't worry, they say they enjoy being spend shamed, and are impervious to criticism since they also state they are superior to other people.
Not all student loans and loan holders, only the ones I have to subsidize for people who earn more than me and jet around the world.
Are you also outraged about the bank bailouts, the fact that powerful congressmen are able to steer pointless military spending to their districts, farm subsidies, and all the other money that gets steered to one group or another? Or the mortgage interest deduction that mainly benefits upper middle class and wealthier people? Or public schools for that matter. I don't have kids and never will, but I still pay a boatload of taxes towards that giveaway.
Not all student loans and loan holders, only the ones I have to subsidize for people who earn more than me and jet around the world.
But don't worry, they say they enjoy being spend shamed, and are impervious to criticism since they also state they are superior to other people.
You obviously are jealous. You did not do “due diligence” and now are paying the price.
Are you also outraged about the bank bailouts, the fact that powerful congressmen are able to steer pointless military spending to their districts, farm subsidies, and all the other money that gets steered to one group or another? Or the mortgage interest deduction that mainly benefits upper middle class and wealthier people? Or public schools for that matter. I don't have kids and never will, but I still pay a boatload of taxes towards that giveaway.
Yes. But those congresspeople aren't here, and if they were wouldn't be stupid enough to sneer that they are superior to other people, including those supporting them financially.
You obviously are jealous. You did not do “due diligence” and now are paying the price.
??
Are you saying I should earn even less, putting myself under the no tax threshhold, to avoid paying the price of subsidizing others?
...no tax threshhold...
What is this?!
It is $10,400.00 in 2018 for a single filer.
??
Are you saying I should earn even less, putting myself under the no tax threshhold, to avoid paying the price of subsidizing others?
No. You indicated that you have college degrees but have low wages. You did not maximize your education or get into a field that pays well. Did you go into the field you studied?
No, I am now in a more in demand field than the one I studied originally. So I have shifted to meet the market. My wages are above the national average of $29,999, but below what UL makes. His income as a single is almost what an average multi-earner household income is.
iris lilies
6-6-18, 10:19pm
Yes. But those congresspeople aren't here, and if they were wouldn't be stupid enough to sneer that they are superior to other people, including those supporting them financially.
So its the snearing. Well, I think UL can take that dislike in stride, he does like to provoke.
I thought maybe it was more his complainy-pants whining about being an indentured wage slave that set younoff. There is whining around here from several quarters about the good deal the good old U.S of A. provides to them. It gets tiresome.
I will never forget one poster here, someone who hasnt posted in years and
I cant even remember her name exactly, posted about how food stamps and whatever-welfare program it was helped her when she really needed it, and she was grateful. It was a lovely and sincere thanks to the citizens of America.
I remember her post because it is so unusual. It is far more common to complain about the handouts and hands up people get. That is just our human nature, I guess.
I am happy to help people less fortunate than me, but I do resent helping those who are more fortunate than me, yet look down on other people.
Pat Buchanan had a great line when the limousine liberals protested against him in 1996, "We have here the revolt of the overprivileged."
The Democrats absolutely lost to Trump because they lost the lower middle class. To recapture power they need to become the party of workers not whiners who collect above average salaries while sitting around watching sports games on the job etc.
No, I am now in a more in demand field than the one I studied originally. So I have shifted to meet the market. My wages are above the national average of $29,999, but below what UL makes. His income as a single is almost what an average multi-earner household income is.
In checking, the median household national average is $59,055 for 2018. Here is a breakdown ... interesting. Are you in a position that requires advanced education?
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-salary-by-education-level
My position requires college but not an advanced degree.
The $29K figure is for a single household, $59K for all households.
Since college graduates earn more on average than non college grads, having everyone support their education is regressive. So is the mortgage interest deduction, though it is not something I have benefitted from, because to counter this regressivity Massachusetts gives a rent deduction on their state income tax and I would have done better taxwise claiming that over my adult lifetime.
You obviously are jealous. You did not do “due diligence” and now are paying the price.
Or it could be that being younger and male that UL has not faced the discrimination I have, including losing a job when I hit my 50's and taking a 17% pay cut to get working again fairly quickly and not have the dreaded gap on my resume. But it turned out OK because the benefits package is better so my take home is about the same. Having my average earnings go down is hurting me with projected social security retirement benefits though.
So it's not poor me, it's relatively rich UL, who I don't enjoy subsidizing. I consider myself middle income not poor.
So its the snearing. Well, I think UL can take that dislike in stride, he does like to provoke.
I thought maybe it was more his complainy-pants whining about being an indentured wage slave that set younoff.
Yes. If I am subsidizing Zoe Girl, for instance, I don"t feel the same. She is doing social good helping kids (not academic research), has been a single mother, is still struggling, and lives a frugal non jet set lifestyle. I doubt she pulls down 49K and she works long hours. She doesn't post that she's going to watch the upcoming sports game on her employer's time.
My position requires college but not an advanced degree.
The $29K figure is for a single household, $59K for all households.
Since college graduates earn more on average than non college grads, having everyone support their education is regressive. So is the mortgage interest deduction, though it is not something I have benefitted from, because to counter this regressivity Massachusetts gives a rent deduction on their state income tax and I would have done better taxwise claiming that over my adult lifetime.
If you make $29k a year, why not go into a different line of work where you can make more?
Yes. If I am subsidizing Zoe Girl, for instance, I don"t feel the same. She is doing social good helping kids (not academic research), has been a single mother, is still struggling, and lives a frugal non jet set lifestyle. I doubt she pulls down 49K and she works long hours. She doesn't post that she's going to watch the upcoming sports game on her employer's time.
Yppej:
Do you think I do academic research?
I am a fundraiser for a university. The fundraising work that I do helps to fund everything from scholarships for disadvantaged students to cancer treatment research to veterinary medicine to football to creating new buildings and so on.
Some might say that single mothers (who are not widowed) simply made bad choices as individuals.
Some might also say that if you are 50+ and still struggling financially you simply made bad financial choices.
You seem to think I am a big spender living the jet set life.
Let me give you an illustration of my lifestyle, a reasonably comprehensive snapshot. Then tell me if you think I live the jet set lifestyle.
-I live in a small, one bedroom apartment.
-I sleep on a mat on the floor.
-I have one small love seat for furniture, along with a used kitchen table and chairs.
-I own a 2012 Nissan Versa which I bought new and paid off in 18 months by literally eating rice and beans every day for lunch and often for dinner too.
-I walk to work each day; I walk to the grocery store; I walk to the pharmacy; etc. to keep my mileage and gasoline costs down
-My meals are not extravagant (though I do like to get dinner or lunch out with friends a couple times a week or so); for instance today I will have yogurt, bananas, and a few walnuts for breakfast; I will have a salmon patty, a bell pepper, and a avocado for lunch; dinner will probably be fried eggs and potatoes.
-When I do go out to eat it is at small, ethnic restaurants on the "wrong side of the tracks" which have very reasonable prices, comparatively.
-My hobbies are reading books (I buy them used for a buck or two or get them from the library); drawing pictures (a new hobby that requires just paper and a handful of pencils), fishing from shore (got all the gear so I just get bait for a few bucks)
-My laptop is 4 years old and was a cheapy to start with; I don't own a cell phone and my home phone costs $27 month; I don't own a TV or a stereo or any gadgets like iPodPads or those watches you can talk to
-My clothes are almost all old and shabby, except my clothes for work and a few shirts I recently bought because my ladyfriend pointed out that my other shirts had big holes in them and I looked like a crumb bum.
I like ZG and hope for the best for her. But she made some major mistakes getting into the line of work she is in. Her job is literally destroying her. Read her posts. You don't mind your tax dollars going to her because she has what seems to be such a miserable life? That is sadistic in a way, Yppej. It really is.
Or it could be that being younger and male that UL has not faced the discrimination I have, including losing a job when I hit my 50's and taking a 17% pay cut to get working again fairly quickly and not have the dreaded gap on my resume. But it turned out OK because the benefits package is better so my take home is about the same. Having my average earnings go down is hurting me with projected social security retirement benefits though.
So it's not poor me, it's relatively rich UL, who I don't enjoy subsidizing. I consider myself middle income not poor.
I work in a female dominated field. It is literally like 6-1 female to male. My boss is a woman. My boss's boss is a woman. My boss's boss's boss is a woman. Men do not get promoted into management where I work. It simply does not happen. Men rarely get promoted at all where I work.
So you are a victim of discrimination? Or are you a victim of your own poor decision making? I would probably say it could be some of both, but mostly you seem to have just made bad choices.
Even if you made 17% more in salary that would only be, what, $35k? If you were 50 and your highest income job paid only $35k before your layoff and employment gap, then chances are you made some really bad choices.
I am no stranger to bad choices. I took out way too many loans as a college student.
So just because your bad choices were different than mine does not make me the devil and you an angel.
Also:
If you could tax white men for their white male privilege in the workforce, what would that tax rate be? The tax should also factor in that we never get discriminated against.
My position requires college but not an advanced degree.
The $29K figure is for a single household, $59K for all households.
Since college graduates earn more on average than non college grads, having everyone support their education is regressive. So is the mortgage interest deduction, though it is not something I have benefitted from, because to counter this regressivity Massachusetts gives a rent deduction on their state income tax and I would have done better taxwise claiming that over my adult lifetime.
Good volley! I was wondering if UL would strike with the mortgage tax deduction advantage idea, but you blocked him. He lost a point.
Yes. If I am subsidizing Zoe Girl, for instance, I don"t feel the same. She is doing social good helping kids (not academic research), has been a single mother, is still struggling, and lives a frugal non jet set lifestyle. I doubt she pulls down 49K and she works long hours. She doesn't post that she's going to watch the upcoming sports game on her employer's time.
Actually, I think she does pull down around $49,000. She has talked about her income rise. This is off the top of my head, so I could be wrong.
She does not sneer, however.
Also:
If you could tax white men for their white male privilege in the workforce, what would that tax rate be? The tax should also factor in that we never get discriminated against.
Taxing white privilege in general is an excellent idea!
Taxing white privilege in general is an excellent idea!
The IRS could establish a Bureau of Genealogy and contract with Ancestry.com to calculate the appropriate levels of taxable whiteness. Tax credits could be created for white people who feel really, really guilty about it.
iris lilies
6-7-18, 9:10am
The IRS could establish a Bureau of Genealogy and contract with Ancestry.com to calculate the appropriate levels of taxable whiteness. Tax credits could be created for white people who feel really, really guilty about it.
Oh, this is taking on steam! Great ideas!
I will bet there is more than one sci fi novel that has expanded on this idea.
Oh, this is taking on steam! Great ideas!
I will bet there is more than one sci fi novel that has expanded on this idea.
Cant we just self identify as someone else?
Oh, this is taking on steam! Great ideas!
I will bet there is more than one sci fi novel that has expanded on this idea.
Perhaps Elizabeth Warren was being financially far-sighted in her ancestry claims.
Yppej:
Do you think I do academic research?
I am a fundraiser for a university. The fundraising work that I do helps to fund everything from scholarships for disadvantaged students to cancer treatment research to veterinary medicine to football to creating new buildings and so on.
Some might say that single mothers (who are not widowed) simply made bad choices as individuals.
Some might also say that if you are 50+ and still struggling financially you simply made bad financial choices.
You seem to think I am a big spender living the jet set life.
Let me give you an illustration of my lifestyle, a reasonably comprehensive snapshot. Then tell me if you think I live the jet set lifestyle.
-I live in a small, one bedroom apartment.
-I sleep on a mat on the floor.
-I have one small love seat for furniture, along with a used kitchen table and chairs.
-I own a 2012 Nissan Versa which I bought new and paid off in 18 months by literally eating rice and beans every day for lunch and often for dinner too.
-I walk to work each day; I walk to the grocery store; I walk to the pharmacy; etc. to keep my mileage and gasoline costs down
-My meals are not extravagant (though I do like to get dinner or lunch out with friends a couple times a week or so); for instance today I will have yogurt, bananas, and a few walnuts for breakfast; I will have a salmon patty, a bell pepper, and a avocado for lunch; dinner will probably be fried eggs and potatoes.
-When I do go out to eat it is at small, ethnic restaurants on the "wrong side of the tracks" which have very reasonable prices, comparatively.
-My hobbies are reading books (I buy them used for a buck or two or get them from the library); drawing pictures (a new hobby that requires just paper and a handful of pencils), fishing from shore (got all the gear so I just get bait for a few bucks)
-My laptop is 4 years old and was a cheapy to start with; I don't own a cell phone and my home phone costs $27 month; I don't own a TV or a stereo or any gadgets like iPodPads or those watches you can talk to
-My clothes are almost all old and shabby, except my clothes for work and a few shirts I recently bought because my ladyfriend pointed out that my other shirts had big holes in them and I looked like a crumb bum.
I like ZG and hope for the best for her. But she made some major mistakes getting into the line of work she is in. Her job is literally destroying her. Read her posts. You don't mind your tax dollars going to her because she has what seems to be such a miserable life? That is sadistic in a way, Yppej. It really is.
You must have quite a bit socked away. I assume your planning on early retirement.
You must have quite a bit socked away. I assume your planning on early retirement.
You're assuming he has socks.
Teacher Terry
6-7-18, 1:58pm
Yppej, it is hard to believe you need a degree for a job yet make less then 30k. You must live in a very low cost of living area. What is your occupation?
ApatheticNoMore
6-7-18, 2:22pm
I am not surprised some jobs pay poorly and require degrees etc, I've seen it, too many low wage jobs, lots of competition for decent jobs, not everywhere is booming economically.
But I am curious about Yppej path, what was the original degree(s) - liberal arts or social science? What was the second degree, accounting? I think Yppej does AR so an accounting degree is what I would guess at. Now one probably *should* be able to make more with an accounting degree, but here's the thing accounting salaries range ALL OVER the map it seems, and so what *should* happen and what does ... may be two entirely different things.
Of course I would not consider an individual income of 29k middle income around here, as it's not middle income here, it's actually considered "very low income" here by HUD. But maybe it is middle income somewhere inexpensive.
Yes. If I am subsidizing Zoe Girl, for instance, I don"t feel the same. She is doing social good helping kids (not academic research), has been a single mother, is still struggling, and lives a frugal non jet set lifestyle. I doubt she pulls down 49K and she works long hours. She doesn't post that she's going to watch the upcoming sports game on her employer's time.
Wow. I'm disappointed in this simple-living in-fighting. The idea of YMOYL is that you choose what you value. So who is Pontius Pilate here and asking, do we crucify Jesus (UL) or Barnabas (ZG)? Hey, ZG, you get a pass, but UL, who is living a very frugal lifestyle and who is walking his talk, gets crucified because he has sinned against the simple living religion by taking a cruise. No, not just one cruise, but a number of trips outside the US borders, which qualifies him as a simple living heretic.
We can judge each other's spending habits, but there is so much to admire in each of the unique ways in which we live out our simple living lives. I admire UL's minimalism and frugality; I admire ZGs commitment and passion for her teaching; I admire Yppej's independence and integrity.
God knows if stones were to be justly thrown in the simple living department, I'd better duck.
Teacher Terry
6-7-18, 3:40pm
Hindsight is 20-20 and when we make decisions with the best information we have at the time not knowing how things will turn out. If we got do overs in life no one would make mistakes.
No, I am now in a more in demand field than the one I studied originally. So I have shifted to meet the market. My wages are above the national average of $29,999, but below what UL makes. His income as a single is almost what an average multi-earner household income is.
I never said I make 29K. See above. I said that was an average that I am above, but that I earn less than UL. My first degree was in the liberal arts, and I didn't expect other people to pay for that impractical choice, or to subsidize it.
You're assuming he has socks.
😄😄😄
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