View Full Version : Financial abuse issues
This story seems so sad but worth examining. I believe that CBC researched this quite well to avoid liability concerns.
http://http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/senior-claims-financial-elder-abuse-1.3876776
A 92 year old man, worth millions, allowed his daughter to be the accountant which was her legitimate business, then she and her brother allegedly later abused the trust placed. He is now poor.
How can one prevent this from happening?
Quotes:
Pete Stoopnikoff, 92, was a self-made millionaire, but now he says he can't afford to put gas in his car because two of his children took nearly all of his life savings.
He alleges his two oldest children drained his funds from a shared account that was meant to cover his living expenses and duped him into signing over two other multimillion-dollar accounts as well as properties.
His oldest daughter, Anne Filippone, became an accountant and started doing his taxes and later offered to take over all his bookkeeping.
"She was just wonderful to me," he said. "You couldn't ask for a better person."
In June 2014, Filippone suggested her father give her and her brother, Sam, enduring power of attorney to handle his financial affairs. Stoopnikoff agreed.
Stoopnikoff didn't become suspicious until June 2016, when he noticed a withdrawal from his joint account with the two children of more than $57,000 and phoned his credit union.
"And they told me, 'Your son has taken the money out,'" Stoopnikoff said. "I couldn't believe it, that my son would do that."
The cheque his son wrote to himself drew from an account that wasn't covered by one of the deeds of gift, but was specifically earmarked "for groceries, paying bills and living expenses."
But the biggest withdrawals from that account appear to have been made by Stoopnikoff's daughter, Anne Filippone, totalling more than $872,000.
On top of that, Stoopnikoff's name was removed from the two accounts covered by the deeds of gift he'd signed, denying him access to an estimated $3 million.
Stoopnikoff's story is part of a wider problem. A national report released last year estimates almost 250,000 elderly Canadians have been financially abused.
iris lilies
12-5-16, 1:01pm
Thats too bad, but your question about prevention? No one can protect vulnerable people if those vulnerable people turn over their assets to the unscrupulous. But if someone has doubt, having multiple people assigned to act in tandem for the person incapacitated is key (although will be a problem is actual adminstration.)
Its like a contract, it is only as good as the integrety of the people signing it.
If the old guy was right in the head, he should have been keeping an eye on his balances.
we are working on estate planning, again (third attorney!) and I will ask my sister in law to be one of my health proxies, but ahe will not have access to money. She is not good with money. She is completely honest, she would just not be prudent with it.
Teacher Terry
12-5-16, 4:42pm
When I needed to become medical POA for my friend her DH also made me the financial one too. I told him to also put his 2 adult kids on the account because at my age I could die and then it would be a problem to get her bills paid. I can't imagine stealing anyone's $ yet alone your parents.
That is a sickening story. Under these circumstances, it would be so much better if the person hired someone from outside the family, wouldn't it.
I have no concerns about my kids but DH and I decided to consolidate our assets in a credit union. After his passing, I gave our kids a substantial gift and them made joint POA with my lawyer and separate accountant aware. My CFP at the credit union knows my wishes and monitors my accounts. Beyond that, I don't know what one can do.
If the poor man had donated some of the considerable assets to family and charitable causes while he was in total control, it would have been less tempting/stressful, I think, but who knows?
ToomuchStuff
12-6-16, 2:12am
Doesn't surprise me. I had a friend, since passed, whose daughter stole his identity. (and been told by LEO's that identity theft from someone you know is common)
Have a couple other friends, who between their families (who seem to believe what is the ones, should be theirs), lost close to 2, million dollars.
That doesn't count the one that had probably a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff stolen, by a drug dependent kid, or the kid that decided his grandfather wouldn't know, and put Sacajawea quarters, in place of the 50ish Krugerrand he had.
All too often, love of money, reveals ones baser instincts.
FIL passed away in August leaving a mil plus to his wife. She is 82 and completely ignorant of their finances by choice so turned it all over to her kids. DH and I moved away so we have nothing to do with any of it so her daughter and other son are now paying her bills, moving money around, setting up accounts etc. There has also been a niece showing up all of a sudden to "help" with her daily matters. The daughter has been in dire money situations before so one wonders how this will all turn out. I keep trying to alert DH to get involved but he wants nothing to do with it.
He could've put his assets into a trust to take care of him - named a corporate trustee (bank or trust company). They have government oversight and liability insurance.
He could've put his assets into a trust to take care of him - named a corporate trustee (bank or trust company). They have government oversight and liability insurance.
That makes a good deal of sense. Even if your family is completely honest and has your best interests at heart, they may simply not know what they're doing. Also, it's a bit of an imposition if they're not being compensated.
In my FILs case, family didn't realize that he qas unable to tend to most financial matters in his last years. He should have known to put all in a trust.
iris lilies
12-8-16, 6:51pm
We are STILL in the process of estate planning. Our last attorney became unresponsive. he is a friend of ours, he is very busy. This is not his primary area of law and he seemed to want to branch out into it, but we are done with him. He is still our friend, he lives around the corner, we are all ok socially.
So, we have moved on to another law firm, a two man shop in the city that specializes in elder law and wills and trusts. We have our second meeting with them tomorrow and I am impressed with the clarity in which they lay out their services and our options. But to be fair, we had some training in these concepts from our previous attorney so we dont need as much hand holding as in the begnning, and we had most of our decisins made and data organized for the new attorney.
It is to your credit, IL, that you are having this conversation and planning. I am amazed at the number of people who were really shocked that my DH and I were so open in discussing and planning what we would do and then did. So many cannot face the topic of "when I die, I wish"....
It is to your credit, IL, that you are having this conversation and planning. I am amazed at the number of people who were really shocked that my DH and I were so open in discussing and planning what we would do and then did. So many cannot face the topic of "when I die, I wish"....
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous and not very responsible to not discuss and plan for these things. SO and I are only in our 30s, but have plans in place so the other isn't financially strapped by the death of the other.
iris lilies
12-8-16, 8:02pm
It is to your credit, IL, that you are having this conversation and planning. I am amazed at the number of people who were really shocked that my DH and I were so open in discussing and planning what we would do and then did. So many cannot face the topic of "when I die, I wish"....
Well, it is still silly that were are 62 years old and still dont havr the will/trust and end of life documents completed. As our attorney said, probate attorneys love people like us, without a will and with decent assets.
I don't know how we were so fortunate but one day I was searching the web for an attorney to help us with this task and saw one that advertised "free" services for estate planning. We made an appt and it turned out they had been offering their services to lower income city employees only but had not taken their website down in time so they honored our request. I guess they thought we were low income and I suppose by some standards we are. We received all recommended documents completed and notarized in their office for free. I have already changed all bank accounts to TOD (transfer on death) so that our only child will have immediate access. It is very sad that my FIL spent all those years investing and doing well but then didn't craft a good exit plan.
Iris, even with a trust, the whole estate thing can be complicated with end of life issues that are not contemplated. My dad married at 87. Even though we all agreed on most things, she hired an attorney which ended up needing a quick probate for everything not in the trust, like cash in bank and a couple of income items.
We need to sort out changes to our will and such.
iris lilies
12-9-16, 9:17am
Iris, even with a trust, the whole estate thing can be complicated with end of life issues that are not contemplated. My dad married at 87. Even though we all agreed on most things, she hired an attorney which ended up needing a quick probate for everything not in the trust, like cash in bank and a couple of income items.
We need to sort out changes to our will and such.
Yes, there will probably be something left out of the trust that will have to be handled with a will, but it is our goal not to have that, DH is pretty thorough about finanical paperwork.
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