New refrigerator or not?

[leslieann]

I am looking for your collective wisdom here. We got a letter from the electric company that indicated we're part of a project where they supply information to us about our usage in the hopes we can make a change. We were shocked to discover that, compared to 70 neighbors (houses similar sizes and ages, and all with electric heat) we use twice the average amount of electricity and 70% more than the most efficient 20% of home in that sample.

They listed ideas to economize but we do all of them already. So we are looking at what to change: the hot water heater dates back to 1985 so that is going ASAP. The power company will replace it with a new, energy efficient rental. We will be doing all laundry with cold water, and trying for fewer loads, plus taking advantage of the racks and line in the basement, to limit dryer use. The washer and dryer are old but they work, and I'm unwilling to change them. It is not like they run all the time, and we have discretion around their use. The heating system is old but pretty efficient: hot water baseboard heat with five zones, and we have all of them on automatic setback thermostats. I do work at home, so we keep the house warm more than the neighbors. (Also we both really like a warm house and maybe we need to work on enduring a little personal discomfort). However, the outstanding question is about the fridge, which does operate continuously. The refrigerator was built in 2002. The power company suggests that machines before 2001 are not energy efficient but does anyone know about 2002?

DH wants to replace it because he wants a new refrigerator with a bottom freezer. I want to be convinced we'll save money. Any thoughts? Thanks so much.

[Tybee]

I don't have any ideas about the fridge, but hot water heaters are not that expensive, so make sure you are not overpaying with a rental--if you own your house I can't imagine not coming out ahead by buying one?

[lmerullo]

If you're only asking about the fridge, I'd say no...per this link: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/refrigerators.html - the annual savings would be 0 on the chart. Of course, there are other reasons to replace, but to save electrical costs - does not appear to be worth it.

[pinkytoe]

We just bought a house in a cold winter climate but it has a tenant in it for a few more months. As we are paying the tenant's bills per the lease we inherited, I am able to compare her energy use with that of the house we are renting. She lives with her boyfriend and the house is a tad larger than the one we are renting but they are of similar vintage. Both have had old windows replaced and the appliances are older. Yet her utility bill is almost three times ours so I scratch my head over what the difference could be. I believe it is most likely the furnace/heater. We keep ours at no more than 62 and around 54 at night. We don't use the programmable thermostat at all but adjust as needed. It is cold but we wear lots of layers to compensate. I am guessing she keeps theirs at no less than 67 and most likely much higher. From reading the article about fridges, it doesn't sound like that is the culprit.

[lmerullo]

What I have a suspect is thermostat setting, as pinkytoe says. If the homes are similar vintage / builder, then I assume about the same as far as energy efficiency. Improvements to efficiency (thermopane. windows, attic and wall insulation, etc) can significantly reduce heating and cooling costs.

Additionally, you can check the temperature on the hot water heater. Lots of dishwashers and even laundry washers have a built in heater, so if the hot water heater is set for comfortable usage, any sanitize cycles are handled by the individual machines instead of the supply of household water at super hot temps.

Long term savings come from swapping bulbs to LED and increasing ratings on appliances, but again, I think the ROI is not immediate, but rather after many years...

[rosarugosa]

I know the focus here is on energy efficiency, but everything I read seems to indicate that newer appliances are crappier and have no longevity, so I am going to keep mine as long as I can.

[razz]

The change in heating costs is huge between old furnace and new. That is worth while investigating to get an idea of just how expensive it really is and whether worth replacing. Hot water tanks are much more efficient today and low-cost lighting is another big one.
My question is: what about your tech toys like TV's, games and computers. They are energy hogs, big time!

[jp1]

Regarding the fridge it might make sense to replace since it's so old anyway and not likely to last many more years. It'd be interesting to use a kill-a-watt on it to see if it's running at it's original efficiency level. Also, when was the last time you pulled it out and vacuumed the coils? Dirty coils make it use more energy.

Regarding heat the number I've always read is that every degree cooler lowers your furnace energy usage by about 3%. Obviously that will differ slightly up or down depending on how cold it is outside. Regardless, though, heating/cooling are typically the biggest home energy expense, followed by the fridge.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Bottom freezers usually rate lower in energy efficiency that top freezers by the way, so it's not optimizing energy efficiency. I did get a bottom freezer, eh it's nice, I wanted a change after owning a truly horrible piece of junk fridge, and so ...

I'm not sure fridges matter that much either, at least not in any predictable way, my smaller piece of junk 2010 era fridge supposedly used less energy before I got this one in 2016 which supposedly uses more energy. But the energy use has gone down when I expected it would go up with a larger fridge, go figure. So hard to predict what if anything you will save, plus of course it takes lots of energy to manufacture a new fridge.

[Tybee]

You might find this list of energy star refrigerators of interest:

https://www.energystar.gov/most-efficient/me-certified-refrigerators

[leslieann]

The rental water heater thing was new to me in moving here to Canada, but apparently it is pretty typical at least in the Maritimes. The monthly cost is minimal but yes, I'll check into purchasing one instead.

[leslieann]

Thanks for all the replies. I am sure that the primary problem is that we keep the house a lot warmer than many people do. We have the daytime use areas set at 20 degrees C, dropping to 16 or 17 when they are not in use. We sleep under a warm duvet and the house is very cool at night, but the thermostat is programmed to go up at 5:30 am. I already have my wool socks, two sweaters, and hot beverages but I think it is probably a matter of getting used to cooler temperatures (again). I grew up in extreme frugality in Maine and my childhood memories of freezing floors and ice on the inside of the bedroom windows still resonate! That is, I know I can survive that but I do resist.

We are careful with our electronic toys, too...don't have many and they all are on power bars that are turned off most of the time. I was a little shocked at how much power is used by that function that permits things to turn on quickly.

Thanks again, all. (I may still end up with a new refrigerator but DH has backed off a little and I think we will focus on hanging the laundry and putting on more sweaters.

[razz]

An electric water heater is cheaper and usually the customer can install it. A gas heater requires a certified gas tech and more costly.
If you have hard water, your heater may fail within a warranty period. Usually heaters last 10-12 years.
Don't have anything bigger than a 40gal tank. DH and I had a 27 gal tank. If we had company, they had to wait and space their showers which caused no big issues.
Replacing our fridge, freezer and water tank made a huge positive difference in our electric bill. Freezer alone was $5/mth.

good source of info:
https://www.lowes.ca/articles/water-heater-buying-guide_a2059.html

[ToomuchStuff]

So structurally the houses are of similar size and vintage, but do they go over the upgrades? What about family sizes and ages etc.
You mention hot water heat, what are the neighbors using? Why are you looking to RENT an appliance? It seem that you want to raise your bill, not lower it. Running the heat hotter then the neighbors, means your using more electricity to get it and keep it to that temperature. Are you unplugging all those power leeches? (tv's, computers, disc players, etc)
What has changed between the 2001 energy standards (of which your refrigerator is one) and current on the refrigerator and how much more would it change if you replaced it later on?

[leslieann]

Good questions, ToomuchStuff.

Our neighborhood is one of post-WWII government-built houses, all tiny two bedroom 1.5 stories originally but subject to 60+ years worth of renovations. We built an addition so our house is larger than many, and as I said, I operate my practice from home, so we heat during the day. We have updated windows, insulated, weather-stripped, and insulated the basement over the years, so the house is pretty tight. But we do heat a bit luxuriously (I make sure to take an extra sweater and fleece slippers when I visit friends) and have plenty of hot water. The sample wasn't stratified at all; just geographic, but the neighborhood is mostly small families, older couples, and single folks. I think mine is the only home-based business in the section.

It is interesting to be a part of this program, though, as I think I've become more sensitized to our use and I am very interested in changing the outcomes. DH will be retiring in 11 months, and we will need to be frugal wherever we can in order to play at the things we want to enjoy. So this is good practice.

What we've done since last week: switched the laundry from warm to cold. Become more conscious of lights on (or off). Combined loads to make fewer washer loads. I'm working on DH to hang clothes in the basement but he's not biting, at least not yet. He hangs outside very readily, so come on, spring!!! (only six months to go). Confirmed the plumbing needs to update the water heater.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Razz, I never thought about the freezer. Mine is a tiny little chest freezer which is probably less energy-consumptive than the top compartment of the refrigerator but I have both of them going. I do use it and try to keep it mostly full.

Still looking at hot water and refrigerators. We both got a cold so that has slowed the forward movement a bit.

[sylvia]

We got new meters install from our power company automatically the bill went up 30 percent. We just got a second fridge but well worth paying the extra power bill. I can do my two week grocery shopping and now have room for extra milk juice and eggs.OUr kitchen fridge is small as we live in a small house built in the 60's. Strangely we bought ours from our pediatrician''s office. Didnt know what to do with it and kept it unplugged. Imagine the joy when we got it! Only 3 years old and very clean! We also have original Montgomery Ward crawl space central heating system from the 60's still working and original air conditioning unity. Both working good. They are not as efficient but we offset by using our thermostat settings wisely and opening windows in the summer. Its really the new meters right now that suck money out.