View Full Version : Giving up...
Ultralight
1-26-17, 7:45am
Trump is sort of like the last straw for me. Though I will say Hillary played a big part in my complete and utter disillusionment too.
I have totally given up on thinking that America as a nation and as a culture will ever get its act together.
I think the decline of America is speeding up rapidly.
The smart folks have become ultra-cynical. The dumb folks believe anything. We are in a toxic state of post-truth.
So I have been mostly just mulling over ways to lessen the effects of the degradation on myself.
Any ideas? Suggestions?
UA, my ideologies are diametrically opposed to those of Trump, but I'm certainly not hopeless over the fate of our country. Keep it in perspective. We have a whole country full of really wonderful people who want to do right things, and have done right things. Government institutions may not be perfect, but nobody gets killed or jailed for complaining. In fact, dissent is supported in our Constitution. (True, Trump may have something to say about that: blackout on the Constitution anyone? ;) Look how far we've come in terms of civil rights for minorities, women, disabled, LGBTQ. Yes, we have more work to do, and yes, some of these rights may be set back a bit, but it's only one man, one term (so far).
We can't blame people for voting for Trump. He represents things that are important to THEM--like a better quality of life, a job, safety, security. Trump may be going about it the wrong way, but the needs and desires of Trump supporters need to be listened to, just as the needs of liberals and Democratic socialists need to be listened to.
The best way to lessen the effects are to work to resist them and/or change the things you don't like. Change can be made. Take action in your community. Heck--run for office!
Hang in there! There's a ton of good about this country.
Whistling has been proven to make people happy. Give it a shot.
flowerseverywhere
1-26-17, 9:15am
What specific issues bother you the most? Figure out how to work on those.
For or instance I was dismayed that the Democratic Party during the last election did not seem to get the message what people wanted. Despite fear (unfounded or not) the decision to let more refugees in pushed some people over the edge. Especially in light of the problems in Europe. They did not create dialogue how to improve the ACA, or at least not enough to let people know it was super important.
My response? I joined a liberal women's group as well as my local democratic group. If enough of us normal citizens do this we may be able to make an influence. I find it much more productive than being depressed, posting on social media or sharing on Facebook
several of my teacher friends are so dismayed by Betsy DeVoss they are banding together to work with teachers and parents to try and block her nomination.
I know many women whose focus is access to all forms of women's reproductive rights and medical care. They are finding each other and planning ways to move forward
Michael Moore, ACLU and numerous groups have info on things you can do. You might not agree with all of it, but there must be some issues you feel are important enough not to speak up.
Will any any of this make a difference? Maybe no, but at least we can say we tried. I am not going to spend the next 4-8 years making myself crazy. I will try to work on issues important to me to the best of my ability.
lastly, focus on your mental and physical health. Take a walk, cook a healthy meal, plant a native wildflower or a tomato or plan a garden. Look up at the stars. Enjoy life.
Ultralight
1-26-17, 9:15am
I think Alan's advice is pretty good.
Decline relative to what? What would be your vision of getting our act together?
I'm starting to notice that the people who are most despondent about Trump, are the people who have no one around them to share their feelings with. Do you have anyone around you to commiserate with? Taking action helps too........although I'm a very unsocial person......I can still make calls, write letters, etc. I think we feel the most helpless when we don't take action. The action might not make much of a change, but it feels good to try, and relieves a bit of the pressure.
The weather is always the worst at the beginning of a storm front moving through (unless it's a tornado...haha)......so I think we need to try to be patient, and hope that things will begin to even out a bit, and hopefully make more sense.
Just know that you are not alone in your exasperation/fear/concern. And though it doesn't make a difference on a larger scale, concentrate on those things in your life that give you pleasure, and lift you up.
catherine
1-26-17, 10:57am
I think Alan's advice is pretty good.
Sing along!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGS029Peq7k
goldensmom
1-26-17, 11:34am
We can't blame people for voting for Trump. He represents things that are important to THEM--like a better quality of life, a job, safety, security. Trump may be going about it the wrong way, but the needs and desires of Trump supporters need to be listened to, just as the needs of liberals and Democratic socialists need to be listened to.
That is the most reasonable thing I've read recently. Everyone needs to realize that they are a 'THEM' to someone and not be so high and mighty thinking only they are right.
goldensmom
1-26-17, 11:35am
I also agree with whistling.
What does giving up look like to you?
ToomuchStuff
1-26-17, 12:16pm
I have totally given up on thinking that America as a nation and as a culture will ever get its act together.
I think the decline of America is speeding up rapidly.
America isn't one culture. (guess you have never heard of multiculturalism) The closest we ever came to that, was during WWII and that was a failure with our concentration camps for other cultures.
It IS one nation, because it was decided to go to war over being multiple nations. (telling others what they could/couldn't do, over the rights to tell others what they could/couldn't do, aka civil war)
Options
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rpu84-t2dI One video link per post....
ToomuchStuff
1-26-17, 12:17pm
Video number 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnrzB-W_Njw
Carlin was soooooo perceptive. I wonder what he'd have to say about how things are today.
He said a lot of things that I've said.........but it's really hard to think that what I do doesn't matter. What I mean is, I can't say "F*** it!" and not care about the environment, and do what I need to do, in my small part.
We all have personal relationships with the universe, and we have to do what we have to do.
But Carlin said some soooo true things.
iris lilies
1-26-17, 12:37pm
I liked that Carlin clip.
Politics is not the dispositive human activity. Anyone who views Obama as a sort of messiah or Trump as a sort of antichrist (or vice versa) is bound to be, and deserves to be, disappointed. Any spirit that can be deeply unsettled by the result of a single election needs to review the solidity of its moorings.
We few, we wealthy, free and pampered few in this time and place need to consider the enviable position we enjoy relative to most of humanity before we indulge in the selfish luxury of despair. We need to understand why so many risk so much to sneak in and steal a precarious place on the margins of our society. We need to understand why so many tyrants, nihilists, fanatics and criminals rightly view us as their greatest threat. We need to understand our own history to see how well-favored we are compared to our forebears.
The magnificent slave owning white men who so cynically crafted a system of checks on the power of a single person for either good or ill foresaw people like the current incumbent. We should be grateful for that.
The smartest people are not "ultra-cynical". The smartest people deal with reverses and consider what to do next.
Great Carlin clip. UA, maybe you should just grab a notebook, sit on the sidelines and enjoy the show.
Teacher Terry
1-26-17, 1:33pm
I have decided that I need to get active with a group that aligns with my values. This election may spur more people to take action which would be good.
As I've always said........I'm not sure we're all supposed to be together and alike and get along. And by "supposed to", I mean what our primitive nature is. Maybe we'll go back to that, but I highly doubt it. But I do think it's just always going to cause problems.
We're taught that it's WRONG to not accept everyone. It's WRONG to not all be the same. Maybe it's just the nature of Homo Sapiens to roam and take over and mix. Who knows.
iris lilies
1-26-17, 2:38pm
...We're taught that it's WRONG to not accept everyone. It's WRONG to not all be the same. Maybe it's just the nature of Homo Sapiens to roam and take over and mix. Who knows.
Oh for heaven's sake.
No one is telling anyone that we all have to "be the same."
There is much I could say to refute your post, but I think it is wisest to respond in a very broad way to your very broadly drawn conclusion.
freshstart
1-26-17, 3:07pm
I found I get too stressed whenever I have to hear and see Trump. So I am no longer watching tv news and instead trying (it takes me forever) to read the NYT, the Atlantic, New Yorker, New York with some BBC on tv mixed in. I get my news much slower due to my cognitive change but at least I don't feel like my head is going to explode every time I hear his voice.Micheal Moore gave a great speech at the Women's March about doing one thing a day. One of the things he suggested was to get up every morning, brush your teeth and call your congressperson, leave a message every single day. He gives out the number to call in the speech. I thought, I could do this. Then Trump made the White House phones closed to the public and I haven't followed up to see if he did the same to Congress. I don't think he did. But watch that speech, there was a lot of good advice about what to do now.
I found I get too stressed whenever I have to hear and see Trump. So I am no longer watching tv news and instead trying (it takes me forever) to read the NYT, the Atlantic, New Yorker, New York with some BBC on tv mixed in. .................... Then Trump made the White House phones closed to the public and I haven't followed up to see if he did the same to Congress. I don't think he did. But watch that speech, there was a lot of good advice about what to do now.
Be careful where you do get your news because what you're describing is false. http://www.snopes.com/white-house-comment-shutdown
iris lilies
1-26-17, 3:24pm
I found I get too stressed whenever I have to hear and see Trump. So I am no longer watching tv news and instead trying (it takes me forever) to read the NYT, the Atlantic, New Yorker, New York with some BBC on tv mixed in. I get my news much slower due to my cognitive change but at least I don't feel like my head is going to explode every time I hear his voice.Micheal Moore gave a great speech at the Women's March about doing one thing a day. One of the things he suggested was to get up every morning, brush your teeth and call your congressperson, leave a message every single day. He gives out the number to call in the speech. I thought, I could do this. Then Trump made the White House phones closed to the public and I haven't followed up to see if he did the same to Congress. I don't think he did. But watch that speech, there was a lot of good advice about what to do now.
Damn that Trump! Time for the pitchforks!
Trump and his office will not "close to the public" Congressional phone lines. WHat an hysterical reaction to your faux news source. But to allay your fears, does your congressman have a local office with a Phone? Can you send a letter? What about email? Do you really need Michael Moore to provide you with a contact number for your
Congressman?
On the topic of the White House phone comment line, Snopes is your friend. President Obama closed down the comment line as part of a planned transfer of authority. It Trump decides to open it or not, whatever. It is a "comment line." Your ability to send communications to the White House does not rest with one phone line.
The last few weeks have been quite enlightening about just how many people have simply no idea of how things work, but are perfectly willing to have full-blown anxiety attacks over how they *think* things might work.
Critical thinking/analysis skills have vanished.
iris lilies
1-26-17, 3:30pm
The Hysteria, it is rife.
Be careful out there!
The last few weeks have been quite enlightening about just how many people have simply no idea of how things work, but are perfectly willing to have full-blown anxiety attacks over how they *think* things might work.
Critical thinking/analysis skills have vanished.
Who was it who said it's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that isn't true?
I am surrounded by Trump Zombies......who fuel their hate fire by watching Fox News for hours each day......
When Trump first got elected I would wake up and groan and start the day off in a grumpy state. I have two friends in the green energy business and at least one and mayb both may lose their jobs. One is a single mother who has a struggle. And another who is low income and will probably lose his health insurance subsidies. It's hard to avoid a little bit of disparity when some new comes up, but I'm pretty much over much or all of it. I'm set against having a bonehead and his minions determine my mental well being. Outside of politics there is still a lot of good out there. A lot of very decent people, wonderful landscapes, interesting historical and scientific phenomena, and great technological and health advancements that have made our lives easier and richer than an previous generation has enjoyed. There is still a reason why people want to immigrate here.
In my older age I've come to think that nationalism is partially an illusion.
freshstart
1-26-17, 4:40pm
you could join one of these groups: https://www.indivisibleguide.comthere is a group in my town, I plan on checking it out
I am surrounded by Trump Zombies.........
They can't hurt you if wear a tin foil hat. That way they can't smell your tasty brain.
Well, it's true that we can't really know yet, what exactly is going to happen. But dang......can you honestly say that Trump is playing with a full deck? Yes, he might be brilliant. Yes, he might have many plans and will make them happen fast.......but dang.......can't you at least see that he's got a personality disorder?
Ultralight
1-26-17, 6:31pm
I said Trump was the final straw that led me to give up. There were and are many, many other straws. Huge. Heaps. Of. Straw!
frugal-one
1-26-17, 7:23pm
I am surrounded by Trump Zombies......who fuel their hate fire by watching Fox News for hours each day......
I know some like that too. Quite astonishing that they believe that BS.
I said Trump was the final straw that led me to give up. There were and are many, many other straws. Huge. Heaps. Of. Straw!
What does "give up" mean exactly?
You could flee to Canada, but if we really do go full frontal fascist their days are numbered.
You could build a bunker in Idaho, but all the good spots are probably taken by now.
You could turn nihilist, but that's been done to death since the fifties.
Ultimately, you may not be interested in politics but politics is interested in you.
My advice: accept that we will have bad governance at times, okay governance at times, and maybe even good governance at times. You are 1/300 million. You don't usually get your way.
flowerseverywhere
1-27-17, 7:35am
I am surrounded by Trump Zombies......who fuel their hate fire by watching Fox News for hours each day......
i live in a sea of red. When someone starts going on about making America great again I like to ask what specifically do they expect to happen in this administration that will make that happen. Most often the answer is more good jobs, bringing factories back, killing the ACA for instance. Some want us to be a "Christian" country.Some simply want someone who will work to ban abortion. Some do not like the browning of America and want no refugees to come here and Want illegals to be deported and a wall to be built. So then I ask something related to their question, such as if more manufacturing is done in the US with high wages might that not make consumer prices rise? Just to get more information because I really want to understand. It is truly fascinating. Some people have clear and concrete ideas, that although they are not in sync with what I think, are sensible and based in reality and fact. Some have ideas That have not been proven to be true. Some people have no specifics, just vague Trumpisms.
I am registered as independent and I would have gladly voted for many of the Republican candidates. I see many of Trump's ideas not in sync with the Republican Party. I get the feeling a lot of the Republicans are trying not to be noticed and stand out. I do respect Paul Ryan, although I disagree with some of his ideas, and hope he survives the wrath of the twitter president
Unfortunately the internet has made many people "experts" in constitutional, immigration, economic, first and second amendment and economic law and policy. And while I do not think Trump is racist, his direct style seems to have emboldened many to take a more racist stance. I am not comfortable with his disdain for media that does not treat him like the exalted king. There are always two sides.
goldensmom
1-27-17, 7:40am
I am surrounded by Trump Zombies......who fuel their hate fire by watching Fox News for hours each day......
I know some like that too. Quite astonishing that they believe that BS.
They/Them. I read a statement recently, ‘why can’t people see what I see?’. It goes both ways. Have you tried to see what ‘they/them’ see? Or are you so sure that only you have the truth, the way and the light? Both sides need to give the other side some consideration and not be so obstinate and venomous.
What does "give up" mean exactly?
You could flee to Canada, but if we really do go full frontal fascist their days are numbered.
You could build a bunker in Idaho, but all the good spots are probably taken by now.
You could turn nihilist, but that's been done to death since the fifties.
Ultimately, you may not be interested in politics but politics is interested in you.
Or go 60s style, and join a commune. I'm currently reading a great book by Mark Sundeen, author of "The Man Who Quit Money." The name of this book is "The Unsettlers" and it describes 3 counter-culturalists who decided they couldn't live in the culture the way it is and completely created their own. For instance, The Possibility Alliance. I've heard of them through my permaculture readings and podcasts, but this book does a great job of describing their day-to-day lives, as well as their mission.
They eschew ALL technology. They don't have any food that's no local--so you won't find my daily breakfast there (banana and coffee). Don't try to find their website on the internet because they don't have one. And they run entirely on the gift economy. You can go there and stay a few days, and they won't ask you for any money. Of course, if you are moved to give them something in exchange, they'll accept.
UA, since you are such a minimalist, and your values seem (at least to me) to be very closely aligned with those of the Possibility Alliance, read about them or even go hang with out them for a couple of days. Watch the 12-minute video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNal2GyIH_g
ToomuchStuff
1-27-17, 10:05am
LDAHL, asked the primary question....
What does giving up look like to you.
Because you are still in a politics forum. Your still breathing. So it doesn't mean not commenting, or killing yourself, but does sound like others among us, who are cynical of all politicians (lie, make promises, etc, just to get power, then not do the job people expect). What does giving up mean for you?:confused:
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