View Full Version : Total chaos
IshbelRobertson
2-4-17, 2:40pm
Mr Trump's decision To deny visa holders entry to the USA has been declared illegal and overturned by a Judge in ?Seattle.
The President says it stands?
:0!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38868571
Mr Trump's decision To deny visa holders entry to the USA has been declared illegal and overturned by a Judge in ?Seattle.
The President says it stands?
:0!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38868571
Yeah.....you should feel how it feels to be an American with this s*** going on! :0!
I am one of those people who is still in partial denial of Trump being the US President. I keep trying to see the other side of things but these daily executive orders are hard to follow. I've just never seen anyone at that level of power behave as he does. I cannot get past the bombastic language. I've been studying journalism at night and my teachers would have a serious talk with me if I posted in public media as he does. I mean I'd probably flunk the class if I talked like that, no substance, just blast away what comes into my head.
I am not sure he's ever been to even a Select Board meeting to understand basic governance. I have to remember all the people who voted for him. Obviously, I am missing something as I still think its a nightmare. I thought he might run into trouble over a business deal and his inability to separate our needs from his. Now, I think he might get the boot by his own party for other reasons. He has no filter and doesn't seem to listen to anyone but his own voice. There are experts with years of experience in all this, if it was me that's new to the job, i'd listen to my staff first. Don't think he has a clue.
I see the genius of the Founders' design playing out in all it's cynical glory.
Kudo's to the judge in Seattle. So many of these people followed the legal process, spent lots of money and time obtaining visa's (I don't remember the administration saying anyone would receive any sort of refund or compensation), already left their jobs, already moved out of their residences, had jobs and schools lined up in US - and boom - they were stranded. Hopefully most of them will be able to take advantage of this window.
This sounds like justice.
I guess no one told him about the judicial branch. Maybe he'll have Bannon draft a Presidential decree to do away with it now.
ToomuchStuff
2-5-17, 10:52am
I see the genius of the Founders' design playing out in all it's cynical glory.
Wait and see if his SCOTUS nominee makes it in, before the court has to accept one of these cases.
As that ends up being the final step, before becoming like an unenforceable law on the books that no one removes from the books. (except these aren't laws, so they wouldn't stick around, just be the unenforceable part)
Miss Cellane
2-5-17, 10:54am
I am one of those people who is still in partial denial of Trump being the US President. I keep trying to see the other side of things but these daily executive orders are hard to follow. I've just never seen anyone at that level of power behave as he does. I cannot get past the bombastic language. I've been studying journalism at night and my teachers would have a serious talk with me if I posted in public media as he does. I mean I'd probably flunk the class if I talked like that, no substance, just blast away what comes into my head.
I am not sure he's ever been to even a Select Board meeting to understand basic governance. I have to remember all the people who voted for him. Obviously, I am missing something as I still think its a nightmare. I thought he might run into trouble over a business deal and his inability to separate our needs from his. Now, I think he might get the boot by his own party for other reasons. He has no filter and doesn't seem to listen to anyone but his own voice. There are experts with years of experience in all this, if it was me that's new to the job, i'd listen to my staff first. Don't think he has a clue.
I could have written this, although my journalism courses were 30 years ago.
It's like watching a natural disaster as it happens, and not being able to stop the avalanche or the flood waters or the earthquake, nor being able to warn the people in the path of destruction.
And it is very, very clear that Mr. Trump does not understand how our government works. It is very clear that he does not understand that he does not have complete, total, utter power to do just as he likes. Nixon found that out through a painful process. Trump may be headed the same way.
The whole immigration ban? A) It should have been planned and written much more carefully, consulting with experts on both the subject and on the writing of executive orders. B) Once judges around the country started blocking it, the smart thing to do would have been to let the ban go, and spend a little time writing a new executive order that could stand up to challenges. But instead, he is so freaking sure he is always right (or someone behind him is so sure they are always right) that they are just pushing and pushing and pushing this order. Graceful compromise is clearly not in his toolbox.
In fact, it is this need of Trump's to always be right, to always win, and to always smash the loser as much as possible that worries me the most. He simply will not let things go. And in dealings with other countries, this attitude is, I suspect, not going to work very well.
Let us take a look at the word, "diplomacy."
1. the profession, activity, or skill of managing international relations.
2.the art of dealing with people in a sensitive and effective way.
synonyms: statesmanship, statecraft, negotiation(s), discussion(s), talks, dialogue; tact.
Trump leads with a heavy club, and continues to use the club. Many sovereign nations are not going to react well to this technique. Hence the mess with Mexico (why did he ever think they would pay for a wall in the first place?) and Australia.
He says whatever comes into his head that he thinks will get him approval and applause. And then, because he cannot be seen to be weak and back down, he has to stand by what he said. This is not typically how good government works.
iris lilies
2-5-17, 11:05am
Wait and see if his SCOTUS nominee makes it in, before the court has to accept one of these cases.
As that ends up being the final step, before becoming like an unenforceable law on the books that no one removes from the books. (except these aren't laws, so they wouldn't stick around, just be the unenforceable part)
One pundit who talked about Supreme Court nominee Judge Gorsuch said that Gorsuch is going to take the hardest line on Presidential executive ordrs than any other judge. That would be ironic.
One pundit who talked about Supreme Court nominee Judge Gorsuch said that Gorsuch is going to take the hardest line on Presidential executive ordrs than any other judge. That would be ironic.
I can imagine Trump's own nominee going on Trump's sh*t list the moment Gorsuch disagreed with him.
I can imagine Trump's own nominee going on Trump's sh*t list the moment Gorsuch disagreed with him.That's possible. He might even do something like a public chiding during a State Of The Union address.
That's possible. He might even do something like a public chiding during a State Of The Union address.
OMG - I forgot about the State of the Union address :-) I wonder if he'll bring up Arnold's TV ratings again?
Miss Cellane
2-5-17, 12:10pm
I can imagine Trump's own nominee going on Trump's sh*t list the moment Gorsuch disagreed with him.
This. I've been wondering what will happen when, as it inevitably must happen, one of Trump's cronies in the White House disagrees with him.
It's not that easy to just fire someone from a position that requires Congressional approval. I mean, it certainly can be done, and I'm sure Trump will do it, but then he has to go through the hassle of finding another nominee and getting them approved. And the way he runs hot and cold with people, we could see a revolving door on some offices in the White House.
This. I've been wondering what will happen when, as it inevitably must happen, one of Trump's cronies in the White House disagrees with him.
It's not that easy to just fire someone from a position that requires Congressional approval. I mean, it certainly can be done, and I'm sure Trump will do it......
A President cannot fire a Supreme Court Justice. They can be impeached by the House and Senate which provides the due process necessary for justice to be served.
I think most people don't understand how government works.
Kudo's to the judge in Seattle.
Yes. Judge Robart is a good Republican.
I suspect the most effective checks on Mr. Trump's excesses over the next few years will come from conservatives.
I hope so LDAHL. The one party president and congress concern me. I'm hoping the checks and balances are not so skewed as to allow free reign.
I hope so LDAHL. The one party president and congress concern me. I'm hoping the checks and balances are not so skewed as to allow free reign.
Slowing or halting overreaching executives (formerly known as obstructionism) is what conservatives are for. There is already sentiment among House Republicans to deny funding for a Maginot Line on the southern border. Opposition from people like Dent or Sasse or McCain or Graham will likely be more effective than Chuck Schumer's tearful histrionics or the House Progressives Caucus labeling themselves "reasonabilists".
I think a lot of the people they used to criticize for "preventing the President from getting things done" will be looked at in a different light. We'll probably hear less about them being "on the wrong side of history".
I think most people don't understand how government works.
It is clear that most don't have the vaguest clue. This is one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of democracy.
Teacher Terry
2-5-17, 1:48pm
All of the federal judges have lifetime appointments.
Bae- what governmental form do you like best?
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-17, 5:28pm
Some benevolent monarchy organized toward maximizing gross national happiness would be ok (see Bhutan), but what are the chances? Government chosen by lottery (if it could be guaranteed to be random) might be fair, you'd actually see a far larger section of the population represented. But president is really just too much power for anyone.
But of course democracy has absolutely nothing at all to do with the walking chaos that is Trump. Blame the electoral college for this one (which was supposed to somehow produce better results than democracy).
The First Nations of the New England area had a good system. The female leaders chose the male leaders to represent the tribe and could withdraw their approval for inappropriate behaviour of the male leaders. Everyone was represented and had to work together. I have read that a young Benjamin Franklin saw this system in operation and was very supportive.
Not sure how widespread this system was but the Haudesaunee still insist that their rights which were recognized by the Crown in negotiated treaties have been violated. When the white man moved in with his patriarchal legal systems, the Indian agent appointed individual members of the tribe to a band council often with bribery of alcohol to mark an 'x' to smooth the way and got the treaty rights signed away. This is what I have read and I am sure that there is much more to the story,
Was it Winston Churchill who said" Democracy is the worst political system except for all the other alternatives" or something similar?
Miss Cellane
2-5-17, 7:20pm
A President cannot fire a Supreme Court Justice. They can be impeached by the House and Senate which provides the due process necessary for justice to be served.
I think most people don't understand how government works.
I am aware that Supreme Court justices are appointed for life. I did not mention them in my post.
I was commenting about Trump's cronies/staff *in the White House,* many of whom, such as members of the Cabinet, require Congressional approval. He may find that it is not so easy to fire them as he has done with people in the past. The Cabinet is not a reality TV show.
I am aware that Supreme Court justices are appointed for life. I did not mention them in my post.
I was commenting about Trump's cronies/staff *in the White House,* many of whom, such as members of the Cabinet, require Congressional approval. He may find that it is not so easy to fire them as he has done with people in the past. The Cabinet is not a reality TV show.
Cabinet members serve at the pleasure of the president. So he can fire them at will. But why would he want to unless they prove to not be lying a-hole enough for him.
The First Nations of the New England area had a good system. The female leaders chose the male leaders to represent the tribe and could withdraw their approval for inappropriate behaviour of the male leaders.
Who chose the female leaders?
ToomuchStuff
2-6-17, 11:15am
It is clear that most don't have the vaguest clue. This is one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of democracy.
Bae- what governmental form do you like best?
I would expect he would say a Republic.;)
I would expect he would say a Republic.;)
Or an oligarchy made up of landed gentry.
And it is very, very clear that Mr. Trump does not understand how our government works. It is very clear that he does not understand that he does not have complete, total, utter power to do just as he likes. Nixon found that out through a painful process. Trump may be headed the same way.
The whole immigration ban? A) It should have been planned and written much more carefully, consulting with experts on both the subject and on the writing of executive orders. B) Once judges around the country started blocking it, the smart thing to do would have been to let the ban go, and spend a little time writing a new executive order that could stand up to challenges. But instead, he is so freaking sure he is always right (or someone behind him is so sure they are always right) that they are just pushing and pushing and pushing this order. Graceful compromise is clearly not in his toolbox.
I loved what our governor, Jay Inslee, said when the ban was implemented. He was absolutely and brilliantly P-O'd. His rant was classic: "These people couldn't run a 2-car funeral!"
I am trying to remember. I think the female leader of each clan was chosen by the women after observing how wisely she dealt with various situations. Each part had its built-in checks and balances, if i remember correctly.
Who chose the female leaders?
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