View Full Version : The Pancake Incident
Ultralight
2-17-17, 8:45am
As you all may know from previous posts to other threads, I have what doctors call a "weight problem."
I have tried all sorts of things to drop some elbeez. I fight the fat, but the fat always wins.
I believe I may have finally hit rock bottom though. On Feb. 5th I was lounging around my apartment. Then I got it in my head I wanted some pancakes -- with real, organic maple syrup. So I decided to have this for lunch.
While I don't eat desserts (cookies, cupcakes, etc.) I have found pancakes to be nebulously defined because they are eaten as a meal and compared to Twinkies, they ain't that bad. Or so I thought...
Anyway, it was like a switch flicked in my brain. All I could think about was these pancakes and all the maple syrup. So I made a stack perhaps a foot high on my plate, this was maybe 20 pancakes. Then I poured most of the bottle of syrup on them.
Keep in mind I was alone in my apartment.
Then I proceeded to demolish that stack o' flap jacks.
In the middle of it I thought: "I am recreational eating alone -- is that like drinking alone?"
A couple minutes later I thought: "If someone saw me eating this way, I'd be ashamed."
But I just kept pounding those pancakes.
Then later that night, for dinner, I ordered a pizza and smashed the whole thing.
I was truly on a wild, intense, out of control binge.
This actually frightened me.
Then I did something I had never done before. I went through my cupboards and my fridge and tossed out everything I knew was bad for me. Butter, a tin of ravioli, the all-purpose refined flour, the remainder of the bottle of maple syrup, etc.
At that point I had a real conversation with myself. I said: "Usually I can white-knuckle my way to success. But I don't think I can in this situation. I think I am like a junkie, an addict."
As a straight edge, teetotaler this revelation crumpled my identity.
But I accepted it.
Since then I have had two regular appointments with a university health coach. Upon his suggestion I also made appointments with a therapist, to talk about this addiction. I also have ongoing appointments with my health coach. He also suggests I meet with a university nutritionist as well. I intend to do this.
The point being that I build up a social support network to be accountable to.
So I have been "clean" since Feb. 6th. I have not eaten butter, or refined grain, no pancakes or pizzas. I have two mantras that guide me:
1."If it tastes really good, then don't eat it!"
2."Remember the pancake incident!"
I have been eating veggies every day. They are horrible. I also eat a wide variety of fresh fruits, and these are nominally good. I eat some sprouted grain/whole grain bread with no added sugar (this also tastes bad). I eat eggs, some chickens, and fish. I also munch on some almonds and peanut butter.
It has been 11 days that I have been clean.
Hey UL, congratulations on staying "clean". I think I inherited the wrong genes as I've been on a lifelong diet and fight to stay close to my ideal weight range. I've gone mostly vegan for almost exactly a year and will not go on about it, but will say that cooking with and eating fruits and vegetables takes some practice to make them taste good. And that said they will never taste as good as a stack of pancakes with real syrup or a sausage pizza, but they can be made to satisfy the appetite.
I think everyone needs a little diet relief valve and sometimes my urges get overwhelming. At least for me indulging occasionally is better than constantly fighting the urges.
Chicken lady
2-17-17, 9:10am
Nice!
sugar is incredibly hard - it hides everywhere.
may I suggest mark Bittman's "food matters" for recipes. It is flexitarian and my dh has actually enjoyed some of the vegetable dishes. It also has a 30 day "diet" plan, but he does not eschew butter or refined grain. He does have some good recipes without them. Also some chicken and fish I haven't made and can't vouch for. I thought his bread pudding was awful, so there is ammunition against succumbing to that if you check out the book.
raw carrots are crunchy and sweet. They seem sweeter the longer you avoid sugar.
if you want support here, I'm happy to help. I'm still fighting my own yo-yo, although I'm on the down again without peaking quite as high. I find that for me regular exercise is critical. Eating healthy is easier for me than exercising.
Ultralight
2-17-17, 9:14am
Hey UL, congratulations on staying "clean". I think I inherited the wrong genes as I've been on a lifelong diet and fight to stay close to my ideal weight range. I've gone mostly vegan for almost exactly a year and will not go on about it, but will say that cooking with and eating fruits and vegetables takes some practice to make them taste good. And that said they will never taste as good as a stack of pancakes with real syrup or a sausage pizza, but they can be made to satisfy the appetite.
I think everyone needs a little diet relief valve and sometimes my urges get overwhelming. At least for me indulging occasionally is better than constantly fighting the urges.
Thanks!
And I am glad to hear that you can indulge sometimes. The thing for me, and I talked to my health coach about this, is that it is like an alcoholic taking one shot of whiskey. I'd probably be drinking straight from the bottle later that day. haha
Ultralight
2-17-17, 9:16am
Nice!
sugar is incredibly hard - it hides everywhere.
may I suggest mark Bittman's "food matters" for recipes. It is flexitarian and my dh has actually enjoyed some of the vegetable dishes. It also has a 30 day "diet" plan, but he does not eschew butter or refined grain. He does have some good recipes without them. Also some chicken and fish I haven't made and can't vouch for. I thought his bread pudding was awful, so there is ammunition against succumbing to that if you check out the book.
raw carrots are crunchy and sweet. They seem sweeter the longer you avoid sugar.
if you want support here, I'm happy to help. I'm still fighting my own yo-yo, although I'm on the down again without peaking quite as high. I find that for me regular exercise is critical. Eating healthy is easier for me than exercising. I sincerely appreciate the encouragement. I am exercising as well (more than just cycling around. My BIL gavee me two hand weights/dumb bells. So I am doing some weight-lifting. I am also just doing push-ups. When I started a few weeks ago I could do about 8. Now I can do 21. Slow, slow progress.
Thanks!
And I am glad to hear that you can indulge sometimes. The thing for me, and I talked to my health coach about this, is that it is like an alcoholic taking one shot of whiskey. I'd probably be drinking straight from the bottle later that day. haha
I understand. There is a difference between indulging and binging. When I get undeniable ice cream urges I get one of those small ice cream containers or if it's pizza I just get a slice or make my own veggie pizza. It seems to knock back some of the really strong food urges. For what it's worth.
ULA, I feel your pain. I, too, am a food addict. Fortunately, I love veggies and eat tons of them. But.....I just can't eat sweets, or many other carbs without it triggering a big fall.
For me, if I can go 3-4 days without sugar, I can get a good foothold on the problem. It always comes back though, when I feel too confident. All it takes is one brownie/cookie/taste of ice cream, etc., and I'm a goner.
Since you live alone, I think a good thing for you to do is never bring anything into your house that can cause you problems. If you absolutely, positively must have something sweet, then buy a one serving of it. But still.......even that might trigger your addiction.
I've found that when I'm home, I have a huge appetite. But when I go somewhere for the day, I don't think much about eating.......until I get home. I also know that if I have project at home (sewing/cleaning/jigsaw puzzle)........something I need to really concentrate on, it distracts my appetite.
But for sure........carbs beget carbs. I know how hard it is. It IS an addiction. What makes it hard is, unlike drugs and/or alcohol, you can't stay away from food. We have to have it a couple times a day. Bummer.
Good luck to you! And make sure you get sunshine and are getting enough vitamins and minerals.
Ultralight
2-17-17, 10:31am
ULA, I feel your pain. I, too, am a food addict. Fortunately, I love veggies and eat tons of them. But.....I just can't eat sweets, or many other carbs without it triggering a big fall.
For me, if I can go 3-4 days without sugar, I can get a good foothold on the problem. It always comes back though, when I feel too confident. All it takes is one brownie/cookie/taste of ice cream, etc., and I'm a goner.
Since you live alone, I think a good thing for you to do is never bring anything into your house that can cause you problems. If you absolutely, positively must have something sweet, then buy a one serving of it. But still.......even that might trigger your addiction.
I've found that when I'm home, I have a huge appetite. But when I go somewhere for the day, I don't think much about eating.......until I get home. I also know that if I have project at home (sewing/cleaning/jigsaw puzzle)........something I need to really concentrate on, it distracts my appetite.
But for sure........carbs beget carbs. I know how hard it is. It IS an addiction. What makes it hard is, unlike drugs and/or alcohol, you can't stay away from food. We have to have it a couple times a day. Bummer.
Good luck to you! And make sure you get sunshine and are getting enough vitamins and minerals.
I appreciate your kind words and insights.
I do take vitamins, multi and an extra D3.
For me it is less often sweets, the pancake with syrup thing is more rare, whereas pizzas and fried chicken are my drugs of choice. I also go bonkers on anything with a big pile of rice. I used to be a sweets junkie with I was a kid -- cakes, chocolates, cookies, etc. I still feel a craving for them. But it has been years and years since I had them. So I have been able to keep those wolves outside the gate.
My plan is to just keep focusing on staying clean each day, lean on my health coach and therapist, and just build a habit. Maybe over time I can acquire a taste for healthier foods.
catherine
2-17-17, 10:44am
I am usually a healthy eater.. I haven't had a soda in many years. If I eat sugar, I try to eat some decent chocolate rather than cake. Used to love ice cream but I never eat it anymore. After the fantastic results of DH and my "carb-free pre-son's-wedding-diet" I've tried to stay off processed carbs (breads, pastas etc).
But sometimes I get incredible pizza cravings, and I'll order a pizza and eat the whole thing--especially when I'm on the road. Or, I've broken down and EVEN had a McDonald's burger and a shake when I'm particularly vulnerable, such as when I haven't eaten in a while. I think it's my brain craving fats AND carbs.
In that case, I generally give myself a pass--since I'm pretty good most of the time. So it might not be some moral defect, UA--it's probably something biological that's out of whack, like the balance of macronutrients at that particular time.
Make sure you have nuts to snack on, or even a piece of organic chocolate.
Ultralight
2-17-17, 10:57am
I am usually a healthy eater.. I haven't had a soda in many years. If I eat sugar, I try to eat some decent chocolate rather than cake. Used to love ice cream but I never eat it anymore. After the fantastic results of DH and my "carb-free pre-son's-wedding-diet" I've tried to stay off processed carbs (breads, pastas etc).
But sometimes I get incredible pizza cravings, and I'll order a pizza and eat the whole thing--especially when I'm on the road. Or, I've broken down and EVEN had a McDonald's burger and a shake when I'm particularly vulnerable, such as when I haven't eaten in a while. I think it's my brain craving fats AND carbs.
In that case, I generally give myself a pass--since I'm pretty good most of the time. So it might not be some moral defect, UA--it's probably something biological that's out of whack, like the balance of macronutrients at that particular time.
Make sure you have nuts to snack on, or even a piece of organic chocolate.
I have almonds, but I don't do chocolate. It has caffeine, which I have not consumed since about age 20 (I am 37 now).
I also, since getting clean, have kept apples and citrus fruits around.
Which is interesting. I could eat 8 slices of pizza, and I have. But I could not eat 8 oranges -- no way! Isn't that interesting?
It sounds like you have a system that works for you. Glad to hear it!
catherine
2-17-17, 11:08am
I have almonds, but I don't do chocolate. It has caffeine, which I have not consumed since about age 20 (I am 37 now).
I also, since getting clean, have kept apples and citrus fruits around.
Which is interesting. I could eat 8 slices of pizza, and I have. But I could not eat 8 oranges -- no way! Isn't that interesting?
It sounds like you have a system that works for you. Glad to hear it!
Well, it works about 90% of the time. :) That's good enough for me.
Yeah, when your brain is craving fat and carbs, apples and oranges aren't going to cut it!
By the way, if you do get a craving for pancakes, at least go with Kodiak Cakes. I bought them at Costco, and they are GREAT! Made with whole grain and packed with protein, and they even taste good! I think they're a great alternative to the standard white flour pancakes. Target also sells them.
http://www.kodiakcakes.com
Ultralight
2-17-17, 11:09am
Well, it works about 90% of the time. :) That's good enough for me.
Yeah, when your brain is craving fat and carbs, apples and oranges aren't going to cut it!
By the way, if you do get a craving for pancakes, at least go with Kodiak Cakes. I bought them at Costco, and they are GREAT! Made with whole grain and packed with protein, and they even taste good! I think they're a great alternative to the standard white flour pancakes. Target also sells them.
http://www.kodiakcakes.com They taste good? Then I probably should not eat them. haha
catherine
2-17-17, 11:14am
They taste good? Then I probably should not eat them. haha
Hmm, I think you said you are a Stoic, but methinks you are an Ascetic.
It's good you don't use caffeine, since that really stimulates my appetite.
I used to make butternut squash pancakes for my kids....mostly squash.
I think for some of us, all carbs can give us cravings just has much as sugar. Too bad there are a lot of healthy things that you don't like.
My guess is that your family didn't offer many of those more healthy things when you were younger?
Rice is okay........but you can soak and rinse it, to help get rid of some of the carb in them.
ApatheticNoMore
2-17-17, 11:20am
I think it's just that certain foods are so highly addictive that it triggers the behavior really. Like pancakes are a super high sugar rush and one doesn't even need to have given up sugar entirely or anything more extreme to get that, they just need to have experienced it.
Now I don't think all fat people are eating nothing but addictive foods all the time (some do but), some people just slightly overeat healthy foods, maybe they eat for stress etc. - and even if it's fairly healthy foods that will add up, but it won't be binge behavior necessarily. Truthfully the human body probably at least in a basically sedentary social situation, where few of us had great diets growing up etc. (and it's easier to be overweight if one was overweight as a kid/teen), probably has some tendency to gain weight even in the best possible conditions unless it's very much fought. But binging is kind of separate from that and I totally think it's caused by the foods themselves in this case!
Ultralight
2-17-17, 11:26am
Hmm, I think you said you are a Stoic, but methinks you are an Ascetic.
Not entirely... I certainly enjoy and indulge in HCF.
But I also enjoy honeycrisp apples, Valencia peanut butter, sparkling water, baked chicken wings (with a spicy/peppery rub on them), organic grapes, and berries of all kinds. So that names a few things I enjoy and will continue to eat.
Ultralight
2-17-17, 11:27am
It's good you don't use caffeine, since that really stimulates my appetite.
I used to make butternut squash pancakes for my kids....mostly squash.
I think for some of us, all carbs can give us cravings just has much as sugar. Too bad there are a lot of healthy things that you don't like.
My guess is that your family didn't offer many of those more healthy things when you were younger?
Rice is okay........but you can soak and rinse it, to help get rid of some of the carb in them.
I have some whole grain brown rice, and I will eat that. Tastes bad and the texture is unpleasant, but it is apparently healthy! Shocker!
I asked what your parents fed you when you're young, because I think it sets our "wiring" for more of the same later. I used to breast feed my DD whenever she wanted it. I told my mother this once and she said "Oh, I only fed you ever 4 hours. If you cried the entire time before that, too bad." She also said when I was a toddler and would cry/fuss, she'd stuff a cracker in my mouth. Thanks mom, you doofus. So now I have a lifetime of eating problems. Just telling you that in case you're also struggling with the wiring that your parents gave you. I'm sure it's a combo of nature/nurture, but a cross-to-bear, nonetheless.
I have some whole grain brown rice, and I will eat that. Tastes bad and the texture is unpleasant, but it is apparently healthy! Shocker!
Well ULA, I'm not sure it's good for you to always eat "healthy" stuff if you find it distasteful! It might take some time and trial and error, but you need to find healthy stuff that satisfies your taste buds too!
Ultralight
2-17-17, 11:32am
I asked what your parents fed you when you're young, because I think it sets our "wiring" for more of the same later. I used to breast feed my DD whenever she wanted it. I told my mother this once and she said "Oh, I only fed you ever 4 hours. If you cried the entire time before that, too bad." She also said when I was a toddler and would cry/fuss, she'd stuff a cracker in my mouth. Thanks mom, you doofus. So now I have a lifetime of eating problems. Just telling you that in case you're also struggling with the wiring that your parents gave you. I'm sure it's a combo of nature/nurture, but a cross-to-bear, nonetheless. My mom has told me time and time again she ate lots and lots of rocky road ice cream when she was pregnant with me. She also smoked. But as a kid I would eat monster chocolate cakes, chocolate bars, double chocolate cookies, red meat like Italian sausages, pizzas, pastas, mac-n-cheese, huge buckets of fried chicken, and I would wash it all down with Pepsi. My parents always had cases and cases on hand.
IshbelRobertson
2-17-17, 11:37am
I have not eaten potatoes, rice, pasta or any bread other than rye flour crispbreads since 1 December. Despite making loads of mince pies, Christmas puddings, Christmas cakes, black bun and shortbreads for the Christmas/Hogmanay period, nary a one passed my lips! I have never been much of a sweetie, chocolate lover, so I Haven't really missed them.
My long-term, insulin-dependant diabetes has been quite unstable since November, with disturbances in my vision. I have had to up the insulin twice and I'm awaiting the results of tests.
I am not overweight, but it's amazing how the fear of losing my sight has the ability to stiffen my resolve!
Yeah, that's true Ishbel........unfortunately for many of us, it's hard to make changes if we don't also feel bad/scary things happening to us.....like diabetes, heart attack, etc.
I'm veering into ketogenic territory, diet wise. I gave up grains and sugar long ago. (Ketogenic diets are excellent for addressing food sensitivities and inflammation.) I'm a devotee of the famous Fat Head Pizza crust, made from almond flour. It's not the same as the real thing, but it makes a tasty substitute.
The SAD diet was pretty much sold to us by Ancel Keys and a vast band of enablers. Nina Teicholz wrote a book about it (The Big Fat Surprise)--the idea that fat is a bugaboo and hearthealthywholegrains are some kind of panacea, which couldn't be more wrong. Sugar and grains drive insulin, known as "the hunger hormone." which pretty much assures that if you eat them. you'll be constantly hungry--especially if you tend toward hyperinsulinemia already. The battleship is turning around, but a lot of the old-school proponents of starch- and sugar-heavy diets (most of whom are on the take from the food industry) will probably have to die before the truth gets a toehold. "Fake news" is rife in the nutrition community.
Ishbel, have you read Dr. Richard K Bernstein's Diabetes Solution? He's a type one still practicing medicine full time at eighty*--a real, solid role model and a strong proponent of very low carb diets for people with all varieties of diabetes.
*He was an engineer when he got his diagnosis, which inspired a career change. He went to medical school in an effort to better understand and treat his condition.
IshbelRobertson
2-17-17, 12:15pm
Jane
i hadn't heard of this writer, but I'll certainly look him up now.
I have been diabetic for nearly 20 years and had become pretty complacent as my twice daily bloods had been more or less stable after the intial difficulties. So complacent I more or less stopped testing for months as a time.
This past year has been very traumatic for me re family matters which are ongoing involving me in a longish trip Down Under last year and frequent emergency phonecalls and FT sessions. I started to eat more bread, my own delicious home-made wholemeal breads, comfort eating, all without testing..... A recipe for disaster, which I am trying to rectify. Since 1 December I have lost just over 8 kilos .... Welcome drop, but a bit more than I'd like.
Stress is kind of a double whammy--it raises cortisol, and it causes insulin to rise, if I'm remembering correctly. And then there are the delights of Getting Older, which means you don't bounce back like you used to. I think you're on the right track, Ishbel.
Ultralite, if you have to gag down vegetables, you might do best on some kind of low carb plan. There's a subset of "zero-carb" adherents who eschew vegetables altogether--kind of like modern-day Inuits. Personally, I like vegetables for the variety they offer, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary in a well-planned diet, and eating only meat and fat will get you into a ketogenic state quickly and easily. Then, in the words of a website "Butter makes your pants fall off," which I can attest to, since I'm having to hitch mine up constantly.
Great job! It is a hard road. I was a very unhelathy veggie teen, coke and fries and actually when I get stressed I do not eat enough. I switched over to total 'real food' back then and raised my kids that way. Overall I eat healthy but I know that sugar with fat is my thing, i keep to small portions. I really think that sugar does affect our brain in the way you are describing and can be highly addictive, it is also in so many foods that you often have to cook to get away from all those added sugars.
There is a theory I have of kid stomachs, there are different parts for dessert, dinner, etc. So if the dinner part is very small they are full with one bite, but the dessert part is huge and empty so of course they have room for dessert! So your fruit and veggies part needs to just get bigger and the dessert part smaller :)
Butter is not Bad- and it certainly makes a lot of veggies more appealing! I dress up steamed bland veggies with butter, freshly ground black pepper, freshly pressed garlic and, now and then, a squeeze of lemon juice.
Cauliflower tastes pretty good in a curry!
I agree about the butter. It's probably healthier than those substitutes with all their additives.
I can relate to both sugar binges and intense cravings for comfort foods. I can also relate to that scary feeling of being out of control around food. You are not alone, UL! I'm glad you've reached out for support. Through my insurance company, I was able to join a "Weight Management Support Group" that meets once a week, for free. Through that no-nonsense but very positive environment, I've made dozens and dozens of small, incremental changes in my diet and exercise routine (i.e. from "none" to "some"). The weight is slowly coming off, my cholesterol and BMI are reducing, and I'm feeling better.
I still have sugar here and there, but I figured out that I can't have access to it in the house, i.e. no bags of cookies in the cupboard. Instead, I'll have ONE thing a week from the grocery store bakery. It was very difficult at first, but now it's getting easier, and I don't find myself thinking about it as often.
Good for you for keeping at it...no effort is wasted! I just try to take it one healthy meal at a time--except for Friday night, when DH and I go out for dinner. At that time, I try to make healthy choices, but if I don't, then I don't beat myself up about it. Hang in there...change is possible!
I think our primitive bodies are finding it very hard to deal with all the excesses that abound in today's world. I believe we were meant to have "cravings"........which would have led primitive people to eat those things which would keep them alive. Can you imagine what a boost it would have been for primitive man to find a cache of fat/salt/sugar? It would sustain him for a week or 2, until he could find more to eat. I just find it curious how some of us have many more cravings than others. Seems like some people have shut-off points, and some of us don't.
Anyhow ULA.........my DH usually makes pancakes on the weekends......mostly because he knows he's going outside to do some hard work. But........he likes to add lots of stuff to them.
I let myself have one this morning. (I've learned to stay away from pancakes, since they usually put me into a stupor). But.....to the batter, he added more eggs, flax seed meal, ground walnuts and left-over pecans, a few raisins, a bit of raw old fashion oatmeal and cinnamon. And you can use jam or honey or real maple syrup....all of which are probably better than the "fake" maple syrup. What I'm saying is that there are adjustments you can make in some of the things you crave, that at least make them a little healthier. You could also use whole wheat flour......or other types of flour that are healthier than white.
Another thing.........if you're anything like me and you eat bad stuff early in the day......you spend the rest of the day eating more bad stuff. So if you can have a treat late in the day, it might not cause that domino effect, and you can spend most of the next day not bingeing. they're all tricks. We all have them. Some work for some and not others. But hang in there!
Listeining to others struggles with food, I guess my mom did me a favor by severely limiting sweets when I was growing up. We were allowed only one soda a day and dessert was for special occasions only. To this day, I don't get cravings for sweets very often. However, I did recently buy a quart of Breyer's chocolate ice cream and enjoyed it immensely for 3-4 days.
Ultralight
2-20-17, 7:03am
I agree about the butter. It's probably healthier than those substitutes with all their additives. I have been using olive oil. Eventually, it seems, one acquires a taste for it.
Ultralight
2-20-17, 7:06am
Also: I am still clean!
Chicken lady
2-20-17, 8:12am
Really nice!
Olive oil is a good fat. How are you approaching salt? If you have an oven and a pan, you can use olive oil to make crispy salty veggies that should help with snack cravings.
Also salty encourages drinking more water, making you feel more full.
but if you're cutting salt too, that won't help.
have you found anything you like to eat?
Ultralight
2-20-17, 8:33am
Really nice!
Olive oil is a good fat. How are you approaching salt? If you have an oven and a pan, you can use olive oil to make crispy salty veggies that should help with snack cravings.
Also salty encourages drinking more water, making you feel more full.
but if you're cutting salt too, that won't help.
have you found anything you like to eat?
I put just a little Kosher coarse salt on this and that, not going overboard. I don't have the same profound weakness for salt, I don't think.
I like to eat: apples, natural peanut butter, grapefruits, bananas, and a variety of other fruits.
Though I will say I am developing a taste for green beans. I sort of sauteed some in a skillet with olive oil, salt, and lemon juice at the end. It is actually fairly palatable.
Chicken lady
2-20-17, 9:26am
The fruits are helping with your sweet tooth. The longer you stay off the refined goods, the more you will notice the sugar in them.
do you eat orange vegetables? Those and beets tend to have higher noticable sugar. And fresh raw peas - snow peas in the pod especially.
how many days has it been now?
leslieann
2-20-17, 10:40am
ULA, I am so impressed, and impressed with the other folks here who are addressing food related stuff. I am myself back on the wagon (lower carb wagon) for a week, finally, as it has taken me over a month to get started again. I did a lot of baking and eating through the fall and holidays and have been sick off and on for several weeks (no biggie, but irritating respiratory stuff). Anyway, I was taking stock this morning on day 7 of where I experience changes: I have no idea about my weight, as it is better for me to not focus on that, but I am sleeping better, digestion is easy and comfortable, a bit less brain fog, joints are starting to feel less tight and painful and I am happy when mealtime comes. I am also starting again to be able to distinguish thirst from hunger from craving.
I found some help in a concept endorsed by the Whole 30 people (at least this is where I first heard it). Some foods are super-palatable and actually do change your brain in the moment so that you have cravings, obsessive thoughts, whatever....and THOSE foods, which are different for different people, are the ones to avoid. So that makes sense. When I am careless, my trigger foods are obvious like Miss Vickie's original potato chips.....but when I am eating clean I ALSO have those shifts....for almond butter, for example, on an apple. I can't eat one serving, and then I have to keep going back. Walnuts are another food that seems benign but for me, when I am eating low carb and clean, they are a binge trigger. Anyway, the book suggested (and so does Judith Beck's book) that giving in to the craving continues to maintain and strengthen the craving pathway in the brain. So better to NEVER give in to the craving, but once your clean eating is well established and you feel confident, experiment with the trigger food when you are NOT craving it. Then watch and see what happens....if it stimulates craving you have to NOT give in, but that way you can possible begin to make peace with foods that really are not an enemy.
I like the ideas a lot. It is a mashup of the "clean eating" guru guys (whom we probably shouldn't take TOO seriously) and the cognitive behavioural approach to eating which may also have some guru flavor to it...Last week I bought some chocolate covered fruit things ostensibly for a book club meeting at my house. Of course there were leftovers (I didn't have any while the group was here, but afterward I did...telling me that I have lots of shame around this stuff). The next day I was planning to throw the balance away but then I noticed that I have lots of chocolate in the house and the other stuff wasn't calling my name...so I decided to see what would happen if I just let it be. So the stuff is in the house and at the moment has absolutely no hold on me. So that's where it is now.....I do have to feel confident and strong in my progress to stay here.
ULA, thanks so much for posting here....this is an ongoing matter for many. Certainly for me.
Since ketogenic eating involves mostly non-processed food, it's recommended to get more sodium--about two teaspoons full of natural salt. So I've taken to drinking a quart of salt water and salting my food heavily. I've never paid attention to salt one way or the other.
I've done Whole 30 in the past, and missed dairy products, which should tell me something...
ApatheticNoMore
2-20-17, 12:51pm
I have been using olive oil. Eventually, it seems, one acquires a taste for it.
I use it too, and the expensive stuff California stuff (go my state!). There is a limit to how much dairy I can handle and I spend my tolerance on cream in tea and small amounts of cheese (and then sometimes overdo it anyway with the cheese and pay for it physically - goat cheese is more digestible tho). Too much dairy and congestion and sore throats and so on. Which is supposed to be so wonderful and healthy and all I guess to hear people talk, ignore your body and eat food that makes you feel like bad apparently. But meh I don't know about that. Olive oil agrees with me.
ApatheticNoMore
2-20-17, 1:04pm
I like and thus allow myself to have some sweets (I know horrible, horrible me), I probably should eat less of them. But the only thing I truly CRAVE is mayonaisy things - like really crave that sometimes (oh just give me a tuna melt already or any sandwich. even a veggie one so long as it has a boatload of mayonnaise please). This is only occasionally, I eat plenty of good fats and mayonnaise isn't even a good fat, just sometimes ... it's the only thing I want.
Mostly I think the excessive overeating (i'm not talking about consuming 100 extra calories a day or something even if it does add up) is just those are very pure refined carbs in pancakes. Or well I think low calorie dieting itself can produce cravings all by itself, so people with runaway cravings, are they chronically on low calorie diets? Then uh duh. Not that one can't lose weight on a low calorie diet but it goes with the territory. Or sleep deprivation or extreme stress is cravings (if I'm severely sleep deprived, yes I want the carbs). But not much does produce cravings for me, except sometimes my kingdom for mayonnaise, or once in a while anything for cheese ...
I rarely use EVOO; I prefer the nearly tasteless extra light--which makes pretty good mayonnaise. I also use avocado oil, bacon fat, macadamia oil, butter, and coconut oil, both refined and unrefined--there's probably lard and tallow in my future. It's easier to come by now.
The "bad fats" are industrial seed oils, bad enough on their own, but processed with heat and harsh chemicals. Commercial mayonnaise is one of my weaknesses. So far, I haven't managed to make mayo that tastes quite the same. I've come pretty close, though...
Ultralight
2-21-17, 7:23am
The fruits are helping with your sweet tooth. The longer you stay off the refined goods, the more you will notice the sugar in them.
do you eat orange vegetables? Those and beets tend to have higher noticable sugar. And fresh raw peas - snow peas in the pod especially.
how many days has it been now? I eat some carrots. They are okay, raw or cooked. I would not call them good-tasting.
Ultralight
2-21-17, 7:25am
ULA, I am so impressed, and impressed with the other folks here who are addressing food related stuff. I am myself back on the wagon (lower carb wagon) for a week, finally, as it has taken me over a month to get started again. I did a lot of baking and eating through the fall and holidays and have been sick off and on for several weeks (no biggie, but irritating respiratory stuff). Anyway, I was taking stock this morning on day 7 of where I experience changes: I have no idea about my weight, as it is better for me to not focus on that, but I am sleeping better, digestion is easy and comfortable, a bit less brain fog, joints are starting to feel less tight and painful and I am happy when mealtime comes. I am also starting again to be able to distinguish thirst from hunger from craving.
I found some help in a concept endorsed by the Whole 30 people (at least this is where I first heard it). Some foods are super-palatable and actually do change your brain in the moment so that you have cravings, obsessive thoughts, whatever....and THOSE foods, which are different for different people, are the ones to avoid. So that makes sense. When I am careless, my trigger foods are obvious like Miss Vickie's original potato chips.....but when I am eating clean I ALSO have those shifts....for almond butter, for example, on an apple. I can't eat one serving, and then I have to keep going back. Walnuts are another food that seems benign but for me, when I am eating low carb and clean, they are a binge trigger. Anyway, the book suggested (and so does Judith Beck's book) that giving in to the craving continues to maintain and strengthen the craving pathway in the brain. So better to NEVER give in to the craving, but once your clean eating is well established and you feel confident, experiment with the trigger food when you are NOT craving it. Then watch and see what happens....if it stimulates craving you have to NOT give in, but that way you can possible begin to make peace with foods that really are not an enemy.
I like the ideas a lot. It is a mashup of the "clean eating" guru guys (whom we probably shouldn't take TOO seriously) and the cognitive behavioural approach to eating which may also have some guru flavor to it...Last week I bought some chocolate covered fruit things ostensibly for a book club meeting at my house. Of course there were leftovers (I didn't have any while the group was here, but afterward I did...telling me that I have lots of shame around this stuff). The next day I was planning to throw the balance away but then I noticed that I have lots of chocolate in the house and the other stuff wasn't calling my name...so I decided to see what would happen if I just let it be. So the stuff is in the house and at the moment has absolutely no hold on me. So that's where it is now.....I do have to feel confident and strong in my progress to stay here.
ULA, thanks so much for posting here....this is an ongoing matter for many. Certainly for me. Thanks for sharing your experiences too! I think that for many of us, and certainly for me, getting healthy and staying healthy is going to be a knock-down, drag-out fight. haha
Chicken lady
2-21-17, 9:21am
When my dad was 47 he became a heart patient. He lost about 100lbs. He changed his diet. He started running. Other runners would go on and on about how they loved running, and my dad would say "I hate it. I hate every minute of it." And they would ask why he did it. He said "there's this guy in a black robe with a scythe chasing me."
he is now 72. These days he does his running on a treadmill. He and Mom will be hiking through hot springs in Iceland this week.
I love the story about your father; I've read a number of testimonials from people who have turned their lives around in that way, and they never fail to touch me.
I think the secret is finding a plan you're comfortable with and sticking to it. That seems obvious, but if you don't enjoy what you're eating or force yourself to exercise, you're less likely to stick with it. You want something that is effective without feeling like punishment. For me, that's LCHF. It works with my wonky metabolism. There are many advantages to it, but perhaps my favorite is lack of hunger. Eating away from home can be tricky, but not impossible. Preparation is key.
Ultralight
2-22-17, 5:52pm
I made a meal that is mostly veggies. And by hell, it actually tastes good!
What is happening to me?
Vegetables have a lot of flavor and with a few good spices and cooking technique they are fabulous.
Tell me about your meal
Ultralight
2-22-17, 6:14pm
I put onions, carrots, green beans, redskin potatoes, and a couple chicken thighs in my small crock pot. I drizzled olive oil over them and sprinkled salt, pepper, and various seasonings on them. When I got home from work I took a bite.
And yum!
Roasted veggies with olive oil, salt, pepper, balsamic vinegar, thyme and rosemary are really yummy too.
Even though they're more expensive, I buy the skinless, boneless chicken thighs.
Ultralight
2-22-17, 6:28pm
I have my weekly appointment with my health coach in a few minutes... We'll see how this goes.
Roasted veggies with olive oil, salt, pepper, balsamic vinegar, thyme and rosemary are really yummy too.
Even though they're more expensive, I buy the skinless, boneless chicken thighs.
I try to buy the ones with skin and bones. They're less processed, have more nutrition, and make excellent stock. And--as you say--they're cheaper.
I try to buy the ones with skin and bones. They're less processed, have more nutrition, and make excellent stock. And--as you say--they're cheaper.
I used to do that, then I ran out of steam to skin them (don't eat that) and debone them. I usually use them in dishes that already have lots of work to them........so I cheat. :|(
The skin makes good gravy, is tasty when roasted, and contributes nourishing fat to bone broth. But I understand--I'm not an eager cook and I cut a lot of corners myself.
Ultralight
2-23-17, 7:18pm
I am going to a Somali restaurant tonight with a friend. It is going to be a knock-down-drag-out fight to stay clean. Knuckles already white...
iris lilies
2-23-17, 7:55pm
I am going to a Somali restaurant tonight with a friend. It is going to be a knock-down-drag-out fight to stay clean. Knuckles already white...
I wonder if they have that great spongy sour bread like the Nigerians?
Injera. That would be a real test of my fortitude, that's for sure.
Thanks Jane. I can attest to the fact that chicken fat does taste good and adds lots of flavor! :D
Ultralight
2-24-17, 7:38am
Here is what I would normally eat at a Somali restaurant:
-Pasta! (The Italians were colonists there for some time apparently)
-Yemeni flatbread (Yemen is so close to Somalia that the two share some aspects of their respective cuisines)
-Injera! (Again, Ethiopia and Somalia are close to each other)
-Lentils
-Chickpeas
-Chicken
-Goat
-Rice
And I would eat all of these items is huge quantities. I'd get an extra bowl of rolled up injera and stuff myself with it.
But last night I got a scoop of greens, a scoop of lentils, a scoop of chickpeas, a little bit of goat, and just one piece of injera. And I did not finish it all. My body said at a certain point: "You are full."
So I stopped. This took some white knuckling for sure.
Here is what I would normally eat at a Somali restaurant:
-Pasta! (The Italians were colonists there for some time apparently)
-Yemeni flatbread (Yemen is so close to Somalia that the two share some aspects of their respective cuisines)
-Injera! (Again, Ethiopia and Somalia are close to each other)
-Lentils
-Chickpeas
-Chicken
-Goat
-Rice
And I would eat all of these items is huge quantities. I'd get an extra bowl of rolled up injera and stuff myself with it.
But last night I got a scoop of greens, a scoop of lentils, a scoop of chickpeas, a little bit of goat, and just one piece of injera. And I did not finish it all. My body said at a certain point: "You are full."
So I stopped. This took some white knuckling for sure.
Good job UA! 👍
sweetana3
2-24-17, 10:29am
I love that injera. You are so right that it helps to fill out a meal and therefore smaller amount of the dishes can be enjoyed.
I know injera can be made from either a wheat/teff mixture or teff only. It looks pretty easy to make.
A ketogenic version is probably out of the question, though.
Ultralight
2-24-17, 9:06pm
I know injera can be made from either a wheat/teff mixture or teff only. It looks pretty easy to make.
A ketogenic version is probably out of the question, though.
I like when it has a sour hint to it, and when it is very dark.
Ultralight
2-27-17, 7:16pm
Total craziness: I roasted some cauliflower with olive oil and some herbs and spices. I'll be damned if it doesn't taste good!
What is happening to me?
ApatheticNoMore
2-27-17, 7:34pm
What is happening to me?
Few kids like veggies, lots of adults do so it's something most people mature into. The exceptions or those who can't learn to like veggies are probably supertasters, supposedly they really have more tastebuds than typical, and so hate anything bitter, so mild veggies for them maybe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster
Total craziness: I roasted some cauliflower with olive oil and some herbs and spices. I'll be damned if it doesn't taste good!
What is happening to me?
I did cauliflower, yellow and zuchini squash, and baby eggplant (they have them at whole foods, adorable) with Mrs Dash and olive oil. I put it on top of faro, never tried that before, and it was delicious. I am on day 11 of the patch, even though I am getting some nicotine my taste buds and lungs are recovering.
Ultralight
2-28-17, 6:56am
I did cauliflower, yellow and zuchini squash, and baby eggplant (they have them at whole foods, adorable) with Mrs Dash and olive oil. I put it on top of faro, never tried that before, and it was delicious. I am on day 11 of the patch, even though I am getting some nicotine my taste buds and lungs are recovering.
Keep powering through! :)
Cauliflower is versatile. One of my favorite uses for it is fauxtato salad--just substitute al dente cauliflower pieces for potato in your favorite recipe. I also like cauli-fried "rice."
I love the theme here of small successes! Learning to like vegetables is a skill with a lifetime of benefits.
I have found Jamie Oliver's stuff to be useful....he uses seasonings and also cooking techniques that are not in my everyday repertoire and what a difference they make! Have been having mashed boiled carrots and mashed boiled rutabaga (called "turnip" where I live). Boil and mash together (more carrots than rutabaga for my family) with unsalted butter and a bit of good orange marmalade, supplemented with grated orange zest. honestly, you could probably skip the marmalade...the orange zest makes the dish. Not the super low carb veggies but so delicious and so unexpected!
I found a mother lode of Jamie Oliver cookbooks at my local library and also a lot is available online. He's not low fat or low carb or vegan or anything...just delicious and focused on home cooking.
IshbelRobertson
2-28-17, 6:12pm
Interestingly, rutabaga is called turnip in Scotland, too. Must be the Scottish immigrants to Canada influencing the vernacular!
We do a dish of mashed neeps (rutabaga) seasoned with lots of pepper and butter.
Interestingly, rutabaga is called turnip in Scotland, too. Must be the Scottish immigrants to Canada influencing the vernacular!
We do a dish of mashed neeps (rutabaga) seasoned with lots of pepper and butter.
We love "neeps" but they are a pain in the butt to cut and peel! And the frozen ones are dreadful.
IshbelRobertson
3-3-17, 7:48am
We love "neeps" but they are a pain in the butt to cut and peel! And the frozen ones are dreadful.
I use a Chinese cleaver to top and tail and cut them into quarters before peeling! The quarters are then much easier to peel!
I use a Chinese cleaver to top and tail and cut them into quarters before peeling! The quarters are then much easier to peel!
I guess a cleaver is better than the French knife and sledge hammer we use!
Thanks for the tip!
I am starting to get appetite fatigue from eating many of the same things prepared the same ways... :/
FWP!
I am still clean. And I have an appointment with a nutritionist next week. My health insurance allows me 2 or 3 visits to the nutritionist per year. I plan to take full advantage and treat her as another component in my support network.
Today I am going to see a therapist. My health coach suggested this. His idea is that my therapist could also be a part of a support network for me, giving me several people to hold me accountable.
Chicken lady
3-7-17, 10:00am
That sounds great! Hopefully the nutritionist can help you make your diet more interesting.
how are you feeling?
iris lilies
3-7-17, 10:45am
I am starting to get appetite fatigue from eating many of the same things prepared the same ways... :/
FWP!
When I am doing the Weight Watchers program (which I am now doing in order to get into shape for our trip to Europe this summer--gotta be ready for all that walking!) I need to expand food horizons. I am more focused on what we eat, food we buy in the store, etc. it all takes a whole lt more planning, eating mindfully.
Oddly, I buy more prepared foods, a wider variety. Low cal cheese, low cal crackers, salsa are items I have purchased recently that are not the usual thing for us. ALso, I keep a variety of canned vegetables to plop on top of green salads.
So expanding your food horizon may be normal. If you don't cook much, you have to change that.
iris lilies
3-7-17, 11:03am
Also, relating to expanding horizons:
I have removed any financial restraint from food buying. I can afford whatever, so I am buying it if it aids my health quest. But even then, I refuse to buy sea scallops again at $27 per pound (see the rant thread.)
Last Sunday we had a community garden potluck brunch, and someone brought beautifully prepared, smoked salmon. It was about $15 worth of fish. He made a delicious horseradish sauce for it.
If I thought I could prepare an expensive cut like that,
I would buy it. But my fish cooking skills are limited.
I do like shrimp as an easy but expensive low calorie protein.
Also, relating to expanding horizons:...
I have removed any financial restraint from food buying. I can afford whatever, so I am buying it if it aids my health quest. ....
Good plan. I rarely limit myself when it comes to good quality food. I can scrimp elsewhere if I'm so inclined.
Ultralight
3-16-17, 7:04pm
Still clean.
Congrats! I admire your discipline.
Ultralight
3-16-17, 8:45pm
Thanks! haha
It ain't exactly fun.
Keep up the good work (aka struggle) UA! :+1:
Hey UA, I feel your pain.
I love not having a (strict) food budget! I think that is the very first place we start to cut whenever we need to adjust spending, and sometimes that causes worse food choices. I know that I had to let go of nit picking my food budget in my quitting journey, I found that just eating junk food, sodas, etc. made the quitting process harder. I remember many years ago when we were fairly broke all the time yet my ex and I ate good food. We got some grief for that, and my answer was that people spend a tremendous amount of care and money on what goes ON their body but paid no attention or reasonable money on what goes IN their body.
Ultralight
3-17-17, 7:34am
Hey UA, I feel your pain.
I love not having a (strict) food budget! I think that is the very first place we start to cut whenever we need to adjust spending, and sometimes that causes worse food choices. I know that I had to let go of nit picking my food budget in my quitting journey, I found that just eating junk food, sodas, etc. made the quitting process harder. I remember many years ago when we were fairly broke all the time yet my ex and I ate good food. We got some grief for that, and my answer was that people spend a tremendous amount of care and money on what goes ON their body but paid no attention or reasonable money on what goes IN their body. Some good points there for sure. :) I definitely spend more money at the grocery buying exotic fruits (like dragonfruit). This helps keep appetite fatigue at bay.
I also know/think you meditate? I am doing a 365 challenge and just starting to see a life in my mood (yeah day 72 before I saw that). One way I saw the lift was in tasting and appreciating food. I also noticed yesterday when I was rushed to eat due to some stupidity in my main office I wanted to eat junkier food, when I was able to wait until I could sit at a table and at least half focus I was more interested in my healthy food. So many factors here.
...
But sometimes I get incredible pizza cravings, and I'll order a pizza and eat the whole thing--especially when I'm on the road. Or, I've broken down and EVEN had a McDonald's burger and a shake when I'm particularly vulnerable, such as when I haven't eaten in a while. I think it's my brain craving fats AND carbs.
In that case, I generally give myself a pass--since I'm pretty good most of the time. So it might not be some moral defect, UA--it's probably something biological that's out of whack, like the balance of macronutrients at that particular time.
...
It's not a moral defect (we're still Puritans at heart it seems), it's the siren call of insulin--it rises when you're under stress, as well as when you've eaten carbohydrates. It's really all genes and physiology, as much as we might like to pretend otherwise.
iris lilies
3-17-17, 11:23am
Some good points there for sure. :) I definitely spend more money at the grocery buying exotic fruits (like dragonfruit). This helps keep appetite fatigue at bay.
When I am in weight loss mode, I really have to think about food more often. Think about: do I have a supply of low calorie fast snack type food on hand? Do I have a big batch of veg in hand, veg that I can cook up into multi meals? Is there a fast food solution close by? not traditional "fast food" of course, but a grocery store salad bar, a deli with low calorie choices, etc.
This week I found another (expensive!) food I can add to my list, expanding what I used to eat:deli prepared green beans, made in the Chinese way with soy sauce. Although I suspect they have more calories than I would like due to oil, it is a great deli food. But expensive at $6 lb. Last week I was starving as we ran into the grocery store for one item, and I grabbed a small box of red raspberries. $2.99! Ugh. But it was a low calorie lunch.
So expanding on your standard diet is good. Not everything needs to be expensive. One of my favorite low calorie foods is cooked cabbage, sliced and sauted with onions, garlic tomatoes, and sometimes hamburger.
Congratulations! you are an inspiration. I know I've "powered through" food even though I'd gone way past the enjoyment stage and even the comfortable stage. Keep up the good work and please continue to post your progress.
Ultralight
3-24-17, 8:46pm
Still clean.
I have been working out too. Since January I have been doing push-ups every day. When I started I could do 8. I can do 31 now.
Chicken lady
3-24-17, 9:11pm
Wow!
i can't do a push up.
are you used to the food yet?
Ultralight
3-24-17, 9:14pm
Wow!
i can't do a push up.
are you used to the food yet?
The food is unremarkable, really. I like fruits. Veggies are still bland. I miss various breads. That sums it up. haha
Ultralight
4-20-17, 7:37am
I struggled a few days over the past few weeks and ate a few unhealthy things, and too much of them. But I did not go into a full-on binge. And I got right back on the wagon -- white knuckling it to get on track.
So I am still pretty clean, despite a few slip ups.
The problem is that I don't see much benefit to eating well and working out. If I saw some gains or some real progress that was meaningful, I'd perhaps not have slipped up those few times. And getting on track might involve less white knuckling.
So I am trying to find some reasons to keep on it.
Chicken lady
4-20-17, 7:49am
So, I'm assuming from your statement that you don't feel better, aren't any stronger, aren't sleeping better, haven't increased your stamina, and see no personally meaningful improvement in your appearance.
do you have a way to track your blood pressure?
Ultralight
4-20-17, 8:02am
So, I'm assuming from your statement that you don't feel better, aren't any stronger, aren't sleeping better, haven't increased your stamina, and see no personally meaningful improvement in your appearance.
do you have a way to track your blood pressure? Old Sawbones checked my BP. It is good. I feel physically better. I feel and look stronger. People have even told me so. I sleep pretty good, except for all the nightmares. But that is just my lot in life -- many, many nightmares most every night. But what I was getting at is that working out for three or four months has done nothing at all to improve my romantic life. I am still not getting any dates or any reasonable offers.
UA.....I can't remember if I brought this up before, but is it possible that you have sleep apnea? It can make you tired and increase your appetite a lot. Sometimes if you get up a couple times at night to pee, it can signal that you have sleep apnea....since stress hormones can cause the need to pee more. I used to get up a lot at night, but after I started using a cpap, it all stopped. My sleep isn't perfect, but the cpap has helped so much with other issues. Can you have that checked out?
UA, women do appreciate a man who's clean and in reasonably good physical shape. But we often are more attracted to men who're conversable, interested in us as individual people rather than providers of sex, have shared values, and are just generally nice. It depends on what you want from a date! A serious relationship takes time to build. Can you get to know women just socially, and build some friendships? Married women, old ladies, other non-date females? Once women get to seeing you as a nice guy, they'll start telling their unattached friends and relations about you, and probably doing a little matchmaking. In the meantime, you'd be making friends.
Teacher Terry
4-20-17, 12:02pm
I had a lot of nightmares when younger and also walked and talked in my sleep. I stopped dreaming completely before i was diagnosed with sleep apnea. They returned once I got on the machine.
Ultralight
4-20-17, 2:30pm
UA, women do appreciate a man who's clean and in reasonably good physical shape. But we often are more attracted to men who're conversable, interested in us as individual people rather than providers of sex, have shared values, and are just generally nice. It depends on what you want from a date! I am aware.
A serious relationship takes time to build. Can you get to know women just socially, and build some friendships? Married women, old ladies, other non-date females? Once women get to seeing you as a nice guy, they'll start telling their unattached friends and relations about you, and probably doing a little matchmaking. In the meantime, you'd be making friends. The vast majority of my friends are women from the 30s to the 60s in age range. None of them has ever offered to hook me up. Though a few have offered to sleep with me "recreationally."
I had a lot of nightmares when younger and also walked and talked in my sleep. I stopped dreaming completely before i was diagnosed with sleep apnea. They returned once I got on the machine.
Hey Teacher Terry.....you just reminded me that I dreamed a lot more once I was on cpap too. Unfortunately, I have alpha wave intrustion which wakes me up a lot, but at least I go back to sleep fairly quickly. Strange, how many people need cpap treatment.
Teacher Terry
4-20-17, 3:10pm
I was told that I have a very small mouth, airway, etc so that is why I have it. After I lost 40lbs I had another study to see if I could get off the machine but although I had many less episodes my oxygen level dropped to 74% while I was sleeping so on it for life. The good thing is that if I am going to be away for just 1 night I don't take it with me anymore like I used to. I used to feel horrible if I missed it for even 1 night.
I was told that I have a very small mouth, airway, etc so that is why I have it. After I lost 40lbs I had another study to see if I could get off the machine but although I had many less episodes my oxygen level dropped to 74% while I was sleeping so on it for life. The good thing is that if I am going to be away for just 1 night I don't take it with me anymore like I used to. I used to feel horrible if I missed it for even 1 night.
I bought a recording finger oximeter, to make sure my O2 doesn't drop during the night (even though the info on my machine says it's good).....but I can't figure out the software.. Maybe some day. I know my sleep doc offered me one to use, but I'll just try to get this one up and running.
Seriously UA......try to be tested for sleep apnea. It could make a big difference how you feel.
iris lilies
4-20-17, 4:47pm
UL, I passed an Indian restaurant at Patterson and High in Columbus and wondered if that was one of your go to places prior to this move toward healthy eating.
iris lilies
4-20-17, 4:59pm
I struggled a few days over the past few weeks and ate a few unhealthy things, and too much of them. But I did not go into a full-on binge. And I got right back on the wagon -- white knuckling it to get on track.
So I am still pretty clean, despite a few slip ups.
The problem is that I don't see much benefit to eating well and working out. If I saw some gains or some real progress that was meaningful, I'd perhaps not have slipped up those few times. And getting on track might involve less white knuckling.
So I am trying to find some reasons to keep on it.
Wait, you haven't lost ANY weight? Come now.
And your progress with pushups is a big gain.
Ultralight
4-20-17, 6:14pm
UL, I passed an Indian restaurant at Patterson and High in Columbus and wondered if that was one of your go to places prior to this move toward healthy eating. It probably was, but I only know them by name. Remember what it was called?
iris lilies
4-20-17, 6:32pm
It probably was, but I only know them by name. Remember what it was called?
Indian Kitchen. Looks like it is closed, didn't get good reviews.
well, don't waste calories on mediocre Indian food.
Ultralight
4-20-17, 6:35pm
Indian Kitchen. Looks like it is closed, didn't get good reviews.
well, don't waste calories on mediocre Indian food. Yeah, that place is not good. There are others in the area that are good. But on the other side of town, near Dublin, there are much better ones.
Ultralight
5-1-17, 10:31pm
I am definitely stumbling. My life, without any foods that taste good, has become largely joyless. My health coach is suggesting I have a couple of exceptions; essentially he thinks I should allow myself a few foods that I like.
ApatheticNoMore
5-1-17, 11:00pm
I am definitely stumbling. My life, without any foods that taste good, has become largely joyless. My health coach is suggesting I have a couple of exceptions; essentially he thinks I should allow myself a few foods that I like.
the danger there is certain foods are hyper palatable, they are binge foods (and no I'm not all that super eating disordered or anything, but I'm not willpower of steel either, and we live in an environment of foods that are more hyper palatable than people have EVER faced in all of human history, it's not natural, and I know some foods I "can't eat just one"). A lot of times it's simple carb foods (cookies, chips, pizza, the usual suspects) but for me it's definitely some super yummy cheeses just by themselves (just cheese all by itself can be addictive for me). So I don't know, there are no easy answers in navigating a difficult food environment.
See I suspect it might not even be "foods that taste good" alone that one misses but the VERY ADDICTIVE PROCESS ITSELF. One misses the addictive process, the being overwhelmed by hyper palatable food, the overwhelming and overstimulating of one's senses, the surrender to it. Yea in the same way that a drug might overload the dopamine receptors etc.. One misses the hyper palatable process that is confused with foods that taste good.
Food should taste good, but taste good does not equal hyper-palatable, that's kind of addiction talking in my view. If one hates all green veggies no matter what maybe one is just a supertaster. But generally even veggies should taste good if they are prepared with fat (unless one is trying to follow some kind of weight loss diet that specifically prohibits this - ie low fat) and some spices etc. (maybe small amounts of meat for the fat). But they are seldom an example of hyper palatable. Yes it's possible to gain weight on food even if it's not the hyper palatable sort just it won't come about through out of control binging, but maybe slightly overeating daily or something.
the danger there is certain foods are hyper palatable, they are binge foods (and no I'm not all that super eating disordered or anything, but I'm not willpower of steel either, and we live in an environment of foods that are more hyper palatable than people have EVER faced in all of human history, it's not natural, and I know some foods I "can't eat just one"). A lot of times it's simple carb foods (cookies, chips, pizza, the usual suspects) but for me it's definitely some super yummy cheeses just by themselves (just cheese all by itself can be addictive for me). So I don't know, there are no easy answers in navigating a difficult food environment.
I agree with you. Some foods make me want to BINGE! This is why I have been eating only foods that have no real taste to me, like steamed veggies, roasted veggies, beans, chickens, and so forth. Though I do like fruit, especially berries. So I eat plenty of those and they do taste good.
See I suspect it might not even be "foods that taste good" alone that one misses but the VERY ADDICTIVE PROCESS ITSELF. One misses the addictive process, the being overwhelmed by hyper palatable food, the overwhelming and overstimulating of one's senses, the surrender to it. Yea in the same way that a drug might overload the dopamine receptors etc.. One misses the hyper palatable process that is confused with foods that taste good.
Oh yeah, I hate to admit that I have an addiction -- pizza and pasta, for instance. I am a junkie for those foods. I'll overdose too, if you give me the chance. Experiencing this and admitting it has made me more sympathetic in a sense to people addicted to drugs and alcohol.
Food should taste good, but taste good does not equal hyper-palatable, that's kind of addiction talking in my view. If one hates all green veggies no matter what maybe one is just a supertaster. But generally even veggies should taste good if they are prepared with fat (unless one is trying to follow some kind of weight loss diet that specifically prohibits this - ie low fat) and some spices etc. (maybe small amounts of meat for the fat). But they are seldom an example of hyper palatable. Yes it's possible to gain weight on food even if it's not the hyper palatable sort just it won't come about through out of control binging, but maybe slightly overeating daily or something.
For me, the idea of not eating fried fish in the spring is deeply depressing. The idea of not eating naan bread at an Indian restaurant ever again, that is deeply depressing. But the idea of not eating pizza or pasta, I feel okay about that. It is not thrilling, but it is not depressing. The way I expressed it to my health coach is like this: "If I can have Indian food with some naan that might be the like methadone that keeps me off the heroin."
And the thing about fried fish is that it is really seasonal -- it is something I usually only eat in the spring, and a few times in the autumn. So it is self-limiting in a sense.
So I am trying to decide if want to try this "methadone" method or if I want to keep trying to white knuckle it and stay totally clean (even though I have stumbled a few times and eaten naan, for instance).
I work out regularly now (with dumbbells and push ups) and have been doing so for months. I ride my bike. I don't eat desserts and have not for years and years. I don't drink soda pop of any kind and have not in years and years. So in those two senses, I am ahead of this game. But no-God help me -- life without fish fries or Indian food is nightmarish and devoid of joy.
I am aware.
The vast majority of my friends are women from the 30s to the 60s in age range. None of them has ever offered to hook me up. Though a few have offered to sleep with me "recreationally."
LOL!!!! And I thought this was the dream of most men.........I think I can honestly say that the happiest I've been was years ago when I was in a serious relationship and we both had our own places.....we could visit back and forth but always were able to retreat to our own nest.
Teacher Terry
5-2-17, 2:41pm
I think occasionally eating the things you love is better then total denial. I get the fried fish thing too so I indulge once in a while.
Still struggling...
I was reflecting (again) on how I was groomed since birth -- maybe before -- to be a junk food junkie. My mom told me she ate rocky road ice creme almost daily when she was pregnant with me.
Then as a kid -- from as early as I can remember -- candy, ice creme, pizzas, buffets, "pigging out," soda pop, and various other bad foods and bad habits were totally normalized in my family and in my environment. They were rewarded with praise: "You ate 40 fried shrimp! Good boy!"
Or: "It has been a rough week, let's order some pizzas!"
Or: "I am feeling blue... so how about Hershey bar with almonds?"
Totally normalized for my entire life -- until I started learning about nutrition when I was about 23 or so. Since then it has been a struggle -- with a few big wins but many, many losses.
I have not eaten desserts -- things like cake or cookies in literally years, like a decade or more. Same for soda pop -- it has been ages since I had it.
I have struggled a bit with eschewing pork -- off it, then on it, then off it again.
Obviously pancakes with real maple syrup have been a long losing battle for me. Same scenario with pizza, despite it's rather one dimensional appeal.
Anyone else having struggles like this?
I really think this ties directly to simple living though because of diet's interplay with cooking at home, spending, advertising, etc.
I am sorry you're going through this UA.
Reading this thread, it seems to me that depression is a major component of your struggle. Are you addressing that?
You are using addiction terms. Have you identified triggers? In your original post you mentioned you wouldn't eat pancakes like that if someone was watching. Can you honestly, truthfully control yourself, if for example, you ordered maple syrup pancakes at IHOP? Maybe this would be a way to occasionally indulge? Make it a special occasion and invite someone for a "treat".
I agree about the depression, which can definitely change one's relationship to food. I know I am definitely an emotional eater. What I am seeking now is to eat things I like, and realize it's okay to want to eat and to eat things that I crave, that my body has a wisdom if I will just tune into it.
I can only achieve change through positive means; self-punishment is not healthy for me, nor self-punishing thoughts.
ApatheticNoMore
5-3-17, 11:12am
I think it's all a matter of degree, so do I struggle with it? More than I'd like, it depends on how strict a diet one is trying to follow and even if not at all to lose weight but say for health (say something like Mediterranean, Paleo, or just real foods, or even something like trying to eat at home).
It depends on how often one binges and even if one almost never ever binges (I seldom do) how often they go off whatever diet they are trying to be on (again even if this is just a fairly lose health maintaining diet). And yea there are always rather unrealistic images of how one should look as well (yea especially women).
And when I'm off after the free potato chips in the break room, eh I AM unhappy. I'm not eating those when I'm happy I can tell you that. But life itself IS a struggle. Sometimes immensely so.
If you can eat fish fries without binging have some fish fries, if you know you always tend to binge on them - have baked fish or something :), sorry but can't say I recommend eating foods you know you will binge on.
I've found that when I'm tempted to eat something that I shouldn't, if I imagine how my stomach will feel afterward (I have GERD that had no symptoms if I follow the diet) - then I no longer want the food that tempted me.
I can get a visceral memory of stomach discomfort and it totally changes my desires.
I am sorry you're going through this UA. Thanks.
Reading this thread, it seems to me that depression is a major component of your struggle. Are you addressing that? Yes, depression is an issue. I have been going to therapy for a few years. Not sure that it helps.... I also meditate daily, exercise, spend time in nature, etc. So I think I am doing most of the things the research shows to alleviate depression, minus the pills. I don't do pills.
You are using addiction terms. Have you identified triggers? In your original post you mentioned you wouldn't eat pancakes like that if someone was watching. Can you honestly, truthfully control yourself, if for example, you ordered maple syrup pancakes at IHOP? Maybe this would be a way to occasionally indulge? Make it a special occasion and invite someone for a "treat". Triggers are usually loneliness or physical fatigue. At an IHOP, I could control myself, but mostly because I want the pancakes I make and I want real maple syrup. Usually, for me, a "special occasion" on a Wednesday is followed by another on Thursday and another on Friday and another on Saturday... There is always a reason to celebrate or to treat myself. This makes it very challenging.
Yes, depression is an issue. I have been going to therapy for a few years. Not sure that it helps.... I also meditate daily, exercise, spend time in nature, etc. So I think I am doing most of the things the research shows to alleviate depression, minus the pills. I don't do pills.
This reminded me of an article that I saw recently. Seems like the Mediterranean diet helps a lot with depression. Link: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/diagnosis-diet/201702/worlds-first-clinical-trial-finds-diet-works-depression
To sum it up, researchers split a group of people with moderate to severe depression in two groups. One group received social support, the other received nutritionist advice. In the first group, 8% achieved "remission" from their symptoms. In the second, 32% percent were in "remission".
Mind blowing to say the least. Keep on keeping on!
Chicken lady
5-4-17, 11:21am
Can you indulge yourself by buying a tiny bottle of maple syrup and only baking enough pancakes to go with it?
by bringing home one fish from your fishing outting and frying it?
i find it much easier to resist temptation at the grocery store than facing my pantry.
Ultralight
5-4-17, 11:36am
Can you indulge yourself by buying a tiny bottle of maple syrup and only baking enough pancakes to go with it?
by bringing home one fish from your fishing outting and frying it?
i find it much easier to resist temptation at the grocery store than facing my pantry. I can always make more pancakes! I can always use the whole bottle or walk over to the grocery and buy another bottle, a bigger one. This is what happens when I am really fiendin' for a fix. The fried fish is a little easier to control myself with, for a few reasons.
The "Mediterranean Diet" has a colorful history. Apparently that rascal Ancel Keys, who kicked off our obesity epidemic many years ago, liked to hold his nutrition conferences on the balmy coastline of the Mediterranean Sea, so he made up a diet to go fit his preferences--just like he made up his "Seven Countries Study," leaving out all the confounder countries that didn't fit his narrative. See Nina Teicholz.
I don't see how properly fried fish would be a problem. Just use a good quality oil like coconut or avocado, or lard, and dredge them in something less problematic than wheat flour. like an egg wash and Parmesan cheese.
OP, you might want to read Wheatbelly.
Hey UA, I don't often log on but when I do I'm always inspired by how much people on these boards sincerely want to help each other. I am impressed by your dedication to dealing with this issue and trying to be healthy. Do you have friends you enjoy spending time with, or volunteer activities, spiritual group, or other active social thing to be involved with? I feel like my church and my church friends and associated activities has saved me many times over from depression and sadness. Not trying to preach to you, just a thought about social networks and being part of a group--for me it's my church, but it could be a club or a meetup group for someone else. Good luck and hang in there.
Ultralight
5-6-17, 10:05pm
Hey UA, I don't often log on but when I do I'm always inspired by how much people on these boards sincerely want to help each other. I am impressed by your dedication to dealing with this issue and trying to be healthy. Do you have friends you enjoy spending time with, or volunteer activities, spiritual group, or other active social thing to be involved with? I feel like my church and my church friends and associated activities has saved me many times over from depression and sadness. Not trying to preach to you, just a thought about social networks and being part of a group--for me it's my church, but it could be a club or a meetup group for someone else. Good luck and hang in there. Thanks! I am very active in the Atheist community here in Columbus. And it is, as cheeseball as this sounds, the light of my life in many senses. We go canoeing, have potlucks, go out to dinner, host support groups, meditate, go cycling (a new event I am hosting), have game nights, and so on. The atheist crew has given me many acquaintances, though no truly close friends.
Ultralight
5-6-17, 10:05pm
OP, you might want to read Wheatbelly. I am open to reading it. I probably have a wheatbelly as I love naan and roti!
Over the past month, for a variety of reasons, I have slipped up very badly. I have not been eating well.
I feel like I can't beat it, like I cannot beat this addiction to unhealthy foods.
I seem to not care much about what my therapist would say or what my health coach will say or what the nutritionist will tell me.
Lost in the wilderness is how I feel...
Chicken lady
6-5-17, 8:42am
So, you have discovered your Achilles heel. The thing in Ua's life that cannot be overcome by willpower and intellect.
Someone I loved once came to me after a major dissapointments and said "this is the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my entire life." When I realized he was serious, I was torn between my desire to comfort him and my impulse to blurt out "you lucky sob." I'm feeling a similar way now.
welcome to the human race. The good news is that this has the potential to make you a better person.
the bad news is, this may be the thing you don't "beat" this may be the thing you live with, you manage, you accept as part of who you are.
so you do what you can. Try, fail, try again, fail better. Maybe you plan your meals for the week. Maybe you just make good choices for breakfast. You put one foot in front of the other and every day you start fresh. I'm not a big fan of the 12 step approach. I'm sure that as an atheist you aren't either. But some of our challenges really do have to be taken one day, one hour, one choice at a time.
Chicken lady
6-5-17, 9:03am
Btw, you inspired me to do push ups. Only I discovered that not only could I not do a push up, I couldn't even do a reverse push up - where you lower yourself slowly to near the floor. So I gave up.
then two weeks ago I told dd I couldn't do push ups. And she said "you can do push ups on the stairs." I said "what?" And she said, "you just find the lowest stair where you can do a push up and you do them. You keep moving down the steps until you can do a push up on the floor.....Then you put your feet on the stairs." I said "you are very funny."
but every day I put my hands on the edge of the fourth step and walk my feet back as far as I can and lower myself to the step. Then I try to do a push up. And I walk my feet forward a bit at a time doing as many push ups as I can until I find a place where I can do ten push ups. When that place is my starting point, I will move to the third step.
Incline push ups are great! I warm-up with them when I work out.
I am up to 32 consecutive push-ups. With every push-up the next one gets even harder to do. haha
I am aware that I am lucky to be addicted to pizzas and buffets and deep-fried food -- in comparison to heroin junkies or crackheads. I get it; I understand, really.
But unhealthy eating will put me in an early grave and diminish my quality of life. I don't want those to happen, at least not the diminishing of my quality of life. Heck with that!
I am thinking about two things I did "beat."
Desserts (I used to be a sucker for cookies, cakes, ice creme, and milkshakes).
Also: Soda pop.
I have not had either in well over a decade.
How did I beat these two of the "worst offenders?"
I focused all my energy simply on avoiding them. I spent a year or two kicking them, and not concurrently either, one at a time.
So another approach I am considering is picking another of the worst offenders and quitting it -- just focusing all my dang grit on it for a whole year. Then it might be like soda and desserts -- just a habit of not consuming it.
But I don't know. I will keep trying things until I get some success.
I don't mind working out. I have stuck to 3 work outs a week since January. It is not even a struggle to do it. I almost like it. haha
And I lead a fairly active lifestyle otherwise -- walking and cycling many commutes. I also take Harlan on walks too, for recreation.
I still meditate daily.
But it is the junk food that gets me every time.
ApatheticNoMore
6-5-17, 7:13pm
probably connected to the cooking thread, if you cooked more and liked it, the junk food might not be so tempting.
I don't know how not to resent cooking though, I like it when I feel I have a bunch of time for it, but given reality, how often is that? Not very! No most of the time, I resent cooking, I'm tired and I have little time and "ugh! I have to cook!", but I force it, or I eat whatever food is around when I can't even force myself because I'm just too worn out.
Williamsmith
6-5-17, 11:55pm
For me the key has been releasing myself from the "blame the victim" mentality. Too often we accept the notion that it is our fault we are getting or remaining overweight or obese. Despite the lack of evidence that undereating and/or exercise will contribute to weight loss. I can't think of a theory that has been repeated more often with the least success than the calories in/ calories out fantasy.
My observation and research convinces me that it has much less to do with "addiction" or mental weakness than biological condition. We should be no more guilt ridden for being obese than we should be for developing leukemia.
We should exercise because it contributes to overall well being, mental health and ability to perform daily tasks but to do it for weight loss is utter folly given the kind of time and effort it takes to burn a meager 100 calories. Plus, I personally experience an enhanced appetite after exercise and it seems consistent with the body reacting to burning calories.
Some of us tolerate the type of fat producing foods that permeate our food chain better than others. Learning to avoid those that harm us most is something best done slowly and gradually. After all, we put the weight on slowly and gradually. For me, removing most sugar from my diet worked well, followed by many carbohydrates. In addition, a 12 hour daily fast helped greatly.
ApatheticNoMore
6-6-17, 2:33am
I suspect UL is on the right track, most biological explanations don't by themselves accomplish anything. Because in order to stay on a diet, any diet, even if it's just avoiding sweets or junk food for one's health, probably does require sustained focus.
It's one thing to say pancakes and other junk food derail one for many biological reasons (take your pick) after one starts eating them and I believe this is true, that some foods ARE hyper palatable and so one just wants to keep eating more and more of them once one has started. But in order to avoid that VERY FIRST bite of junk food, does take focused attention. So it IS focused attention/psychology/willpower or whatever you prefer. It's not just biology, that is unless you start taking some kind of drug to block all pleasure from say pancakes or something (then and only then maybe it's just biology :))
Really I think the focused approach would work for me. And yes the temptation is psychological, having a sweet or something junky is often rather consciously medicating what is sometimes quite a bit of psychic pain, but focus could work. (although I may just be a perfectionist as I probably eat at least 80% healthy as is - still ...)
(Eh, there are simple hacks if all one wants to do is avoid binging, if they can't give up sweets, well I find for me binging on dark chocolate is unlikely, so it's way safer than say cookies. But that's just learning not to binge. It's not if one aspires to more than just to stop binging).
I think it's accurate to say we live in an obesi-genic society as they say (for many reasons, people go out to eat to socialize, etc.), but that's only moderately useful to know that, unless one is learning of the dangers of restaurant and processed food for the first time or something.
I am aware of our biology (or mine!) and how it makes me want to slam pizzas and crush pancakes.
One of the more psychologically difficult things for me is that I am gritty -- partly through luck, as it is a talent, and partly through dedicated cultivation.
And my grit not being able to overtake this addiction to junk foods like pizza is jarring to my identity and an experience of failure I am unaccustomed to.
So I am adjusting to that.
But I made this list of foods I am currently weak for:
-Pizza
-Jelly/Jam
-Chips
-White breads
-Buffets
-Maple Syrup
-French Toast
-Pancakes
-Deep fried fish
-French fries
-Pakora
-Particle meat (burgers, sausage, etc.)
-Honey
-Bagels
-Fried Chicken
Many of these I have not had in months, pizza and buffets and white breads are the ones that are kicking my butt lately though, and most often.
As I said, I have been clean of soda pop and desserts for over a decade (perhaps 15 years now that I think of it).
I suspect this could be a whack-a-mole game though, like if I kick pizza for a year, then during that year I might get more into bagels, of something like that.
Chicken lady
6-6-17, 7:05am
It might help to make list of things you want to eat and focus on that - like, when I am hungry I am going to eat these fruits and vegetables and drink x amount of water and if I am still hungry, I will eat...
i have discovered that that my chip and nut cravings are actually salt cravings. There is very little salt in my diet, so when I exercise a lot I crave chips and roasted nuts, but it appears to be from sweating out too much salt - a heavily salted inch thick slice of baked potato eaten slowly with a glass of water generally does the trick. So I try to keep a baked potato in the fridge.
It might help to make list of things you want to eat and focus on that - like, when I am hungry I am going to eat these fruits and vegetables and drink x amount of water and if I am still hungry, I will eat...
i have discovered that that my chip and nut cravings are actually salt cravings. There is very little salt in my diet, so when I exercise a lot I crave chips and roasted nuts, but it appears to be from sweating out too much salt - a heavily salted inch thick slice of baked potato eaten slowly with a glass of water generally does the trick. So I try to keep a baked potato in the fridge. Interesting thoughts on chips. I occasionally want to smash a bag of chips. Then afterward, I am like: "Chips are only a one dimensional flavor, kind of a let-down actually."
Williamsmith
6-6-17, 9:42am
If you have actually posted your height, weight and body mass index history maybe I have missed it or maybe that is not where you want to go with this.
You are talking in terms of a person unable to control his addictions to some foods that you deem harmful to yourself. It seems you have analyzed in depth your current condition but is there some way you can get at why these conditions exist?
Have you gotten any benefits from the counselors and dietitians you have seen? Is this a journey or are you really without clue as to how to find a satisfying direction? Thus, things occur like the "pancake incident".
ApatheticNoMore
6-6-17, 12:32pm
I suspect this could be a whack-a-mole game though, like if I kick pizza for a year, then during that year I might get more into bagels, of something like that.
yea you probably do need to do something broader like give up all junk foods (just like you gave up all sweets and not just say cake). I read the "focus on one thing at a time" with all one's determination more as don't try to do a dozen different kind of things at once, like try to give up junk foods and exercise (if one hates it) and take up fasting twice a week and ... yea probably don't do that :P
Awhile ago recently I decided both to give up sweets on weekdays and only eat meals and not snack even though by nature I am a grazer (so yes trying to give up even healthy non-sweet snacks). Needless to say although I did it for a week or so, of course I fell off the wagon and I think it might be because of trying to do too many things.
Research insulin and its relationship to hunger. It's mostly a physiological phenomenon.
Williamsmith
6-6-17, 3:05pm
Research insulin and its relationship to hunger. It's mostly a physiological phenomenon.
I agree with this. There is a lot of bad "science" related the the physchology of obesity which may take the view of this being a problem of consumption, weakness or inactivity. I lean toward more of an approach whereby there must be a malfunction of the physiology that stores energy in the form of fat, fails to utilize its savings as fuel and sends false signals to the brain indicating empty reserves and calling for acquisition of more fuel. Thus....binging and craving. In other words, the obesity and inactivity are not results of overeating but evidence of a biological cause.....like insulin resitance in the case of sugary food and hormonal imbalances which cause the system as it was designed to break down.
If that is true, then the shaming aspect toward obese, inactive and food addicted people is a double punishment. I think our culture is not only behind in the research and treatment of obesity.....we have been guided in the wrong direction for many years by people who have had wrong motives, publish bad research and worse ignore results of research because it didn't turn out the way they wanted it to.
It is significant that those who are the most poverty stricken in this country are seemingly the most prone to obesity. A walk around WalMart will provide ample evidence of that.
ApatheticNoMore
6-6-17, 3:49pm
that seems to have something to do with the struggles detailed here, it's about insulin and junky food triggering binging. Different people react to foods very differently, but junk food is a pretty slippery slope for most people. But if the question is how to avoid eating junk food in the first place, one still needs to say "no" to that, and so grit/focused attention or whatever ... Nancy Reagan is as good a diet guru as anyone at that point - "just say no" :)
It is significant that those who are the most poverty stricken in this country are seemingly the most prone to obesity. A walk around WalMart will provide ample evidence of that.
they can't afford healthy food maybe, but since poverty, especially if it's seen as PERMANENT, is probably REALLY fricking depressing, could they stick to healthy food, even if they could afford better? Can't say I know how those shoes feel. The really sad part is even if they managed to eat really healthy food, their health might indeed improve, but poverty itself is also an independent risk factor for health problems I believe. :(
If you have actually posted your height, weight and body mass index history maybe I have missed it or maybe that is not where you want to go with this.
You are talking in terms of a person unable to control his addictions to some foods that you deem harmful to yourself. It seems you have analyzed in depth your current condition but is there some way you can get at why these conditions exist?
Have you gotten any benefits from the counselors and dietitians you have seen? Is this a journey or are you really without clue as to how to find a satisfying direction? Thus, things occur like the "pancake incident".
I currently weight about 200lbs. I am 5'9".
ApatheticNoMore
6-7-17, 12:59am
I had a conversation today on how someone was derailed from a diet by others getting into a debate about diets with them. Yea not too constructive. I mean there are debates on diet because nothing is black and white at this point. But it's not helpful for staying on a diet.
Still think the building up grit approach sounds best (or I'm going to try it out).
If it's bagels and pizza heck if you can't give up a wider variety of other things maybe just give up gluten. Not because it's killing everyone necessary (that requires a great deal of belief that it is indeed doing so) but because it eliminates a lot of temptation.
Gluten in particular is problematic for some people. Additional proteins in wheat and other grains can set off all kinds of physical responses--like auto-immune disorders--in many more people, aside from the insulin surge caused by carbohydrate intake. There are also studies that seem to show grains and milk proteins connect with opioid receptors in the brain.
Gluten in particular is problematic for some people. Additional proteins in wheat and other grains can set off all kinds of physical responses--like auto-immune disorders--in many more people, aside from the insulin surge caused by carbohydrate intake. There are also studies that seem to show grains and milk proteins connect with opioid receptors in the brain.
I just came across a great article on this topic in New Yorker (spurred on to Google from this thread). I like this article because it discusses the complexity of our dietary choices, which we try so hard to make simple. It doesn't pooh-pooh the gluten-free trend, but it does add some layers of science to why all of a sudden gluten is verboten today.
My take-away goes back to my own personal dietary trend to try as HARD as I can to eat NOTHING processed, including bread, which is processed--at least if you buy it in a store, it's processed. As I've said before, eating as close to real food as we could had innumerable health benefits for both my husband and I. I am totally suspicious of any food that comes out of a lab.
For instance, despite the fact the the following is 100 calories, non-GMO, zero trans-fat, preservative-free, no artificial ingredients, and gluten free--I'm avoiding it like the plague
1758
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/03/grain
Well, after a very bad binge last night I have awoken this morning with a resolve to get clean again. Nothing to do but get back on the wagon.
After the binge, when the junk food high faded away, I did some introspection.
I came to some of the same conclusions I have before, but maybe with some nuances. And who knows? Maybe there was a new conclusion in there too.
For some reason, I can't get my simple living values (minimalism/voluntary simplicity) to apply to food and eating. Why? I have no idea.
It is like the people at the minimalist meetings who love the idea of minimalism, but they just cannot get themselves to declutter.
Also related to the simple living tie-in is how my problem with food is partly an addiction borne of my own affluence. There were times when I was poor that I ate significantly better -- rice and beans, cabbage and noodles, peanut butter & banana sandwiches. But now I have enough money that I can go out to eat often and eat most any food I like in huge quantities.
But I think the bottom line is emotional. When I was in Israel and had no stress and no emotional distress (other than a bit of loneliness) I ate surprisingly well -- and in very reasonable portions. I even ate a few slices of pizza -- but they triggered no binge.
I need to find something I love (and perhaps someone who loves me) more than food. I need to find something that comforts me more than food, something that entertains me more than food, something that is better company than food.
But what?
For now I am going to dig my heels in and white knuckle it, along with making an appointment to my rent-a-friend (therapist). I have a call next week with my health coach. And next month I meet again with my nutritionist. I am also considering going back to Over-eaters' Anonymous. I went to one meeting but the prayers annoyed me.
Williamsmith
6-13-17, 8:47am
Let me propose something radical. What you have done in the past to resolve your weight concerns has not reaped permanent solutions. So why return to any of them?
Your list of foods which you ate when you were self described "poor" really fed your obesity. Rice, beans, noodles, peanut butter and banana on bread are all foods that people predisposed to fattening should avoid. In fact, I would consider that an excellent way to fatten up any livestock I might intend to slaughter and eat someday.
Historically speaking, we are genetically developed as "hunter-gatherers". It has only been the last less than one per cent of human existence where we became an agricultural society and existed in the industrial processed food age.
If your finances have improved....use them to purchase simple foods and food ingredients, bring them home and make meals of meat, fruits and vegetables. Eat as much as you want of this stuff and your hunger will be satisfied. Stay away from processed food with carbohydrates and sugar. That is simply all it takes.
Or you could move to the Alaskan Frontier where you can't walk into a pizza shop at will or grab a Reese's peanut butter cup at checkout.
Ultralight, I was intrigued by what you said about not being able to apply your practices of minimalism and simplicity to your diet. I recently realized I have a similar problem. I have a tendency to hoard, which I have worked mightily to rein in, all with the help of my DH who keeps me in check. However, I realized that on some level, COOKING (and buying ingredients, cookbooks, and appliances) was the one "legitimate," sneaky way I could use to continue hoarding. For awhile, I was baking too much--justifying it to DH that since he has celiac disease, me baking him gluten-free desserts was the only way he could have affordable GH treats. Of course, I was eating those treats, too! Now that I've spotted the tendency, I've tried to apply the same awareness about controlling hoarding to shopping for food, picking out recipes, etc.
I have no real insight here, just an observation about my own experience. Also, if ANYONE knows how to generate a desire for exercise, please pass on the secret! I don't mind exercising at all...it's just getting started that confounds me!
iris lilies
6-14-17, 2:36pm
Getting started execising--one of my tricks when I am not in the mood to exercise is
to tell myself "self, just walk out the front door onto the sidewalk, turn, and walk to the corner. If you want to turn around and come back after that, its ok to do so. "
only 1 time in 50 do I actually turn around.
Hetting started execising--one ofmy tricks if
Im now t in the mood is to tell myself "self, just walk out the front door onto the sidewalk, turn, and walk to the corner. If you want to turn around and come back after that, its ok to do so. "
only 1 time in 50 do I actually turn around.
That's a great tip. One of my favorite productivity gurus suggests starting a new habit by doing it 1 minute a day, and slowly working your way up.
Ultralight
6-14-17, 4:50pm
Ultralight, I was intrigued by what you said about not being able to apply your practices of minimalism and simplicity to your diet. I recently realized I have a similar problem. I have a tendency to hoard, which I have worked mightily to rein in, all with the help of my DH who keeps me in check. However, I realized that on some level, COOKING (and buying ingredients, cookbooks, and appliances) was the one "legitimate," sneaky way I could use to continue hoarding. For awhile, I was baking too much--justifying it to DH that since he has celiac disease, me baking him gluten-free desserts was the only way he could have affordable GH treats. Of course, I was eating those treats, too! Now that I've spotted the tendency, I've tried to apply the same awareness about controlling hoarding to shopping for food, picking out recipes, etc.
I have no real insight here, just an observation about my own experience. Also, if ANYONE knows how to generate a desire for exercise, please pass on the secret! I don't mind exercising at all...it's just getting started that confounds me! Interesting insight about yourself! I appreciate you sharing it.
I thought I did not like working out. Then in January I started (part of this unFATification process). And lo and behold: I actually like it. I am about to work out now. I especially like push-ups. I can use my own fatness against itself!
Hey UL, just came across this article and thought of you: http://www.breakthetwitch.com/simplifying-meals/#more-3163. Its about simplifying meals.
Ultralight
6-21-17, 7:06am
I don't seem to have a problem with working out. I woke up at 5:30am today to work out.
Amusing story: I am doing this challenge to be able to do 100 push ups in a row. I am currently at 32. My coworkers know this. So the other day, a couple of the young whippersnappers were teasing me about my push up challenge.
The one guy, who is like 27 and lean, was like: "Come on! Let's do push ups. Lets see how many we can do!"
And a 23 year old woman who is a fit, muscular rock climber was like: "How many can you do? Let's see!"
They think I am just some doughy, balding, middle aged, out of shape schlub.
After several minutes of this kind of prodding and teasing I was like: "Okay."
So I dropped and rapidly started doing hand-clap push ups. I did a whole bunch of them. Afterward I could see they were both taken aback. The dude was like: "Wow... I didn't actually think you could do those."
The rock climber was like: "I guess you can do a lot of push ups..."
Another coworker came out from her cube and was like: "Was that really him doing those clap push ups?"
When I first started back in January I could not do 20 "girl" style push ups.
Getting started execising--one of my tricks when I am not in the mood to exercise is
to tell myself "self, just walk out the front door onto the sidewalk, turn, and walk to the corner. If you want to turn around and come back after that, its ok to do so. "
only 1 time in 50 do I actually turn around.
Excellent advice! I can't tell you how many times that's gotten me moving. And, of course, once I've done one minute, I can do five or more. And having done it many times before makes it easier to get up and do it.
Somebody ought to tell Yppej to un-ignore me. She'll love reading this update.
Well, I really fell off the wagon. Actually, I fell off a bunch of times since June 1st. I was going to restaurants and buffets alone, I was engaging in "bonus eating" (where you eat meals in between or shortly after other meals). I was eating fast food -- burgers, fries, and chicken fingers.
I ate pancakes numerous times. Huge stacks. Gigantic stacks, even! At pancake houses (the opium dens of us fat bodies).
But things really came to a head on Monday -- dime-a-dog night at the minor league ballpark. I ate 7 hot dogs covered in ketchup and mustard. I also ate a boat of cheese fries. I had to wait in loooooong lines for my hot dogs. So I missed most of the game and during this time my ladyfriend was sitting alone.
Afterward I chugged a half gallon of whole milk before bed.
The next day I went to a Mexican restaurant and ate two big-ass bowls of chips and salsa. Then I ate my meal. I also ate unspeakable numbers of slices of pizza virtually around the clock.
But my ladyfriend saying "You spent more time waiting in line for ten cent hot dogs than you did with me" really hit home.
I also noticed I was spending lots of time thinking about getting my next fix -- what will I eat next? And getting and taking my fix was taking up lots of time. So I had barely been reading more than a few pages a day. I was only drawing one picture every couple of days.
My dog -- poor Harlan -- was getting so few walks and was spending too much time home alone while I was out smashing drumsticks at Bogey's All Night Chicken Shack or while I was destroying an Indian buffet.
In short, my food addiction was really getting in the way of the things that are important.
And I have, over the past couple months, spent so much money on restaurants and take-out that I have new debt: Doctors' bills that I should have already paid off, by all rights! But the money I should have put to that debt went to chicken wings and brunch buffets.
Perhaps the most shameful of all. I don't have the money to pay for Harlan's annual dentist visit. He usually gets a thorough cleaning and such in the summer. Now he won't be able to get this until autumn, maybe even winter.
This is a new low for me. I cannot properly take care of my dog because my food addiction got so spendy.
Many people find help with overeaters anonymous. You might want to check into it, as it sounds like a 12 step program might really help.
Teacher Terry
8-1-18, 7:43pm
That sounds horrible and I would worry about gaining weight with all the high calorie eating. Hope you can get it under control.
That sounds horrible and I would worry about gaining weight with all the high calorie eating. Hope you can get it under control.
I am worried about gaining weight. I am almost 200 lbs. as it is. I am only 5'9", so 200 lbs. is A LOT!!
Ultralight
10-25-18, 7:20am
So I was thinking more about this issue.
And something shifted in my mind.
I remember some of my buddies back in the old neighborhood were wild drunks or stoners.
And being lushes or potheads was a big part of their identity, perhaps the biggest part of their identity.
Being a foodie is actually a big part of my identity. I am the guy people come to about restaurants and ethnic cuisine. I always know the coolest and latest African or Asian restaurants in the city. I know the names of all the entrees and sides and say: "Oh, try the Kuku Paka at Wycliff's!" Or: "Addis has the best injera, go there!" Or: "If you want a good sampler of Somali food then go to Hoyo's -- Hoyo means mother in Somali."
And so on.
Perhaps as long as being a foodie is a huge part of my identity I will continue to have problems with weight and unhealthiness and overspending.
In March I did a "vegan month" with a friend of mine. She really needed to get healthy and lose weight.
She watched Forks Over Knives and decided to convert to veganism.
As a show of solidarity I did the first month with her -- all vegan, all whole foods diet.
My insane food cravings went away after the first week. My urge to overeat compulsively was almost entirely vanquished.
Though I did feel like I was missing out on my favorite foods -- like white basmati rice and various Indian foods.
But what I noticed is that the closer I am to a vegan whole foods diet, the better I am at curbing my compulsive overeating. Right now I am definitely holding my own by eating a diet that:
-Largely avoids diary products (I will eat Indian foods when creme or yogurt is an ingredient).
-Totally avoids eating cows, goats, pigs, birds, and fin fish.
-Mostly avoids eggs
I can eat raw oysters, enjoy them, and not feel compelled to go overboard.
I eat white basmati rice and naan, and can still go overboard, but not insanely.
Abstaining from basmati rice just feels like emotional torture. haha
A meal is just not a meal without rice.
So a "near vegan" diet seems to really diminish my addictive and compulsive overeating.
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