View Full Version : Papers, please.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/23/1637032/-Are-federal-agents-checking-everyone-s-passenger-IDs-at-will-now-like-on-this-domestic-flight
I wish I could say that I'm surprised. But actually the only surprise is that it took a whole month of comrade trump being president before this happened.
This used to happen to us here when we took the ferry to the mainland. The ferry system is part of the WA State highway system, and the ferry here is an extension of State Highway 20/536. The ferry to the mainland from our county travels entirely within US waters.
Nonetheless, upon arrival in Anacortes, we were herded into a barbed-wire enclosure, and questioned. Sometimes they'd drag away a foreign national, or a US national with warrants outstanding.
This was in 2008.
The local community was a bit miffed at the whole thing.
You might want to look at how deep the "border region" extends inside the US, it's sort of scary.
The funniest memory I have of this time was when the fellow in front of me was a bit upset at the questioning.
"Are you a US citizen?"
"I'm a citizen of the Samish Nation, this is our land, the Treaty of Point Elliot says ..."
The least funny memory I have was finding out the guy in charge of herding us into the camps, who was telling us at public meetings "trust me, this is for your own good", was actually not quite such a good guy...
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/former-blaine-border-patrol-official-pleads-guilty-to-child-rape/
Until now I was not aware that the arbitrary 100 mile border area included the coasts. I was aware of the southern and northern parts of it, having watched a variety of checkpoint refusal videos on youtube a while back. According to the ACLU 2/3 of the US population lives within the faux border zone.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/2/23/1637032/-Are-federal-agents-checking-everyone-s-passenger-IDs-at-will-now-like-on-this-domestic-flight
I wish I could say that I'm surprised. But actually the only surprise is that it took a whole month of comrade trump being president before this happened.
One of the more amusing aspects of the early Trump administration is the way people are trying to convince us of all the evils that are originating with one obnoxious guy. Every officious customs agent, every antisemitic vandal, every schoolyard bully have "gotten permission" to act from this orange serpent in the garden. It's as if the prior eight year years were a time of edenic innocence that were suddenly plunged into darkness by the Electoral College.
Well, the cartoon in my local paper had a different view of Trump and I suspect that it is not unusual. It was a picture of a huge elephant with Trump's head followed by a very tiny Pence looking woebegone and dragging a dung bucket and a large pooper scooper. I wondered how long this go unchallenged and, sure enough, CBC http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-nuclear-arsenal-1.3996556 announced that:
"U.S. President Donald Trump says he wants to build up the U.S. nuclear arsenal to ensure it is at the "top of the pack," saying the United States has fallen behind in its atomic weapons capacity.
In an interview with Reuters, Trump also said China could solve the national security challenge posed by North Korea "very easily if they want to," ratcheting up pressure on Beijing to exert more influence to rein in Pyongyang's increasingly bellicose actions."
Not sure if that will convince North Korea and China but I have no answers and nothing else seems to have worked. Is the US falling behind in nuclear capacity? What will be the unintended consequences? Many of you are far better informed about such things.
ToomuchStuff
2-24-17, 11:16am
Fallen behind, no. We still can "blow up the world" (cause our own extinction), probably several times over. We removed several types of nuclear arms, via treaties (classes and locations of missiles).
Here, we have a facility that "makes non nuclear parts, for nuclear weapons", but you do have to have security clearances for several parts, and there is a trained staff of DOE police.
One of the more amusing aspects of the early Trump administration is the way people are trying to convince us of all the evils that are originating with one obnoxious guy. Every officious customs agent, every antisemitic vandal, every schoolyard bully have "gotten permission" to act from this orange serpent in the garden. It's as if the prior eight year years were a time of edenic innocence that were suddenly plunged into darkness by the Electoral College.
To be sure, life was not perfect pre-Trump. I wish I shared your optimism that he isn't going to attempt to make radical changes to the country. And given his well known opinions regarding immigration I seriously doubt that this event at JFK is just a fluke that happened to happen during his administration.
One of the more amusing aspects of the early Trump administration is the way people are trying to convince us of all the evils that are originating with one obnoxious guy. Every officious customs agent, every antisemitic vandal, every schoolyard bully have "gotten permission" to act from this orange serpent in the garden. It's as if the prior eight year years were a time of edenic innocence that were suddenly plunged into darkness by the Electoral College.
Wasn't that basically said by many of the previous administration? "Destroyed this country" I think was(is) a commonly used phrase.
To be sure, life was not perfect pre-Trump. I wish I shared your optimism that he isn't going to attempt to make radical changes to the country. And given his well known opinions regarding immigration I seriously doubt that this event at JFK is just a fluke that happened to happen during his administration.
As Bae points out, such incidents preceded Trump.
Where i do see some cause for (guarded) optimism is that despite his bombastic rhetoric Trump seems trending less authoritarian than the previous administration.
David French makes that argument here: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445185/trump-less-authoritarian-obama
As Bae points out, such incidents preceded Trump.
I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.
I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.That sort of thing has been happening for some time. I believe most here consider Mother Jones to be a reputable source don't they? This from 2012: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/tsa-swarms-8000-bus-stations-public-transit-systems-yearly
"Not to worry: security isn't the only goal of VIPR. A recent VIPR operation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEiMvu6svgw&feature=player_embedded)/screening at a Tampa Greyhound bus station was conducted with US Border Patrol and ICE. "What we're looking for is threats to national security as well as immigration law violators," said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEiMvu6svgw&feature=player_embedded) Steve McDonald from US Border Patrol. An ICE representative said that they were also looking for smuggling, and Gary Milano from Homeland Security said that although that was the first time the Tampa bus depot had been screened, VIPR would be back again sometime in the future and was using the element of surprise as a deterrent to "the bad guys."
I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.
I've been stopped on the *train* in Glacier National Park, and watched the agents go from car-to-car doing their questioning. They've pulled off people each time.
I asked an agent WTF, and he told me that they didn't actually expect to catch anyone who'd snuck in from Canada through the Park's wilderness and gotten onto a train, but they were simply pulling off people who can come in elsewhere, who had then boarded the train in Seattle to get elsewhere, and that it was really really easy to reel them in off the train in the middle of nowhere.
Multimodal transport and all.
Another bunch of fun I have with our Border/immigration/customs folks....
My county is made up entirely of islands, on the border. Our county seat is the next island over from mine. I have to go over there with some frequency for meetings of various county governmental bodies.
I quite often, in my small boat, get stopped on the way, on the water, by at least one government agency for a "check". One day I completely missed a hearing of the County Planning Commission, which I was the Chair of at the time, because I got stopped independently by 3 different agencies on the water on the way over. Hilariously, the hearing was concerning the approval of some excessively complicated environmental protection legislation the State and the Federal government were requiring us to adopt... One of my fellow planning commissioners, who lives on one of the smaller islands, almost always got stopped by two different agencies on his way to our county seat.
America, Land of the Free.
(You can see perhaps now why I've been keeping an real estate offerings on Saltspring Island and Vancouver Island...)
I guess I see a difference between border checks that are actually near a border with another country and border checks at a border that is just open ocean and the people being checked couldn't possibly have come from the ocean they were getting off a plane that had just flown across the country. What's next? Border checks as people get off the subway at Times Square? Probably.
It's called a police state. It won't be just borders, either - sounds like the feds are getting direction to crack down on "legal" marijuana as well.
Teacher Terry
2-24-17, 4:18pm
I will be so happy when this administration is in our rear view mirror.
ToomuchStuff
2-25-17, 1:36am
It's called a police state. It won't be just borders, either - sounds like the feds are getting direction to crack down on "legal" marijuana as well.
Oxymoron. State legal, but still federally illegal, and you give up rights if you do it.
Oxymoron. State legal, but still federally illegal, and you give up rights if you do it.
Agreed - but it will be such a stupid waste of resources and effort.
Agreed - but it will be such a stupid waste of resources and effort.
Here in Colorado that could be a big issue. I probably could not accurately estimate the relative economic impact, but it seems large to me. Maybe a couple of billion in retail sales per year and millions in tax revenues. And beyond that are the greenhouse and other supplies, warehouse sales or leasing, and probably a little bump in tourism. The newspaper even has reporters dedicated to writing about the business. I was having dinner with friends and it came up that probably everyone at least "knows someone who knows someone" in some aspect of the business and I think they all knew the risk. Making something that impairs judgement more accessible does not go without problems, but I think everyone has been surprised at how few they have been and far less than the problems with alcohol use and abuse.
Spicer says it leads to opioid abuse, which is a throw back to the reefer madness war on drugs era and about as bogus as climate change denial. But throwing legal marijuana back to the black market and drug cartels that are also involved in hard drug distribution just might. It is no big secret that a, or the major player leading to opioid addiction is the misuse of prescription medications.
A lot of people here will be watching this closely. It seems like a good example of something that has worked out pretty well here, but might not somewhere else, as in a state's rights.
Yes Colorado will be a center of this. I know people in the business and people who have benefited greatly by being able to use it medically easily. I was a little nervous, having my young adult kids, but honestly I agree it has been rolled out so smooth and so few issues that I wish other states would do this. Now if the federal gov't pushes it Colorado economy is in trouble, plus we can put a LOT more people in jail for the stupid small possession charges that target populations.
I met people at a conference for collective impact that work in opoid addiction programs in rural Colorado, it is the opposite to them. Marijuana may have issues, I don't think a lifetime of it is a great idea and generally you lose brain cells, nothing like these drugs that people drop dead from, can't raise their kids, can't work.
ToomuchStuff
2-25-17, 12:36pm
It seems like a good example of something that has worked out pretty well here, but might not somewhere else, as in a state's rights.
I still am expecting at some point in places as Colorado, or California, some federal bust and claims made, tying up the money, while the states rights, verses federal rights thing, goes through courts. (after all seizing bank accounts is a bigger headache, then seizing cash that couldn't be banked, due to drug laws)
gimmethesimplelife
2-25-17, 8:36pm
I read the beginnings of this thread and clicked on the news link and what can I say? I have been working a lot lately as it is peak banquet season and I am over my illness and I think I've been working even more than I normally would as so many things are happening in this country and at such a rapid fire pace that cause me great fear that I've been working more to save every last penny against whatever calamities may fall this country and also to try to keep myself occupied due to my fear of Trump/Turbo Charged Capitalism/Issues Having Taken Place Since Trump Was Sworn In. Given that I'm a moderator here I have to keep myself (somewhat) in line and I've been lurking more than posting for awhile as I found myself unable to stay within acceptable behavior for a moderator. To the OP, all I'm going to say is I'm very afraid for the future of America, and for all of us. My only advice - money saved, two bags packed, and a plan to flee. I can't read the future but what I'm seeing now does not inspire hope or faith in me. Thankfully I have my mother who totally agrees with me, and my husband and in laws (all Mexican nationals, all here legally) that see things this way, too. And thankfully I live in the infamous "85006" where most everyone is going to see the wisdom in my advice, too.
All the above helps as I find this country so divided in those instances I step out of the 85006 for anything other than work - I may be very opinionated but even I get that an employer is temporarily renting my labor and not my opinions/political viewpoint so I keep it zipped in the workplace. But I have run across several instances lately that really make me think this country is in for hard times as I believe America is now too divided for bridges to be created between the opposing sides/points of view. My fondest wish is that California does separate from the US - it would be a possible chance for those who don't fit into America very well (such as myself) to start over in a more liberal friendly nation.
I can't change anything but I can try to be a sane voice of reason - such as when I tried to talk some neighbors out of engaging in violent acts at a protest in Tempe (a suburb) - violence solves nothing, I firmly believe this. I can save money as best I can and I can drop all pretense of a future in America - right now I'm filling space and saving money as much as I can. Also I'm trying to see to it that my Mother's later years are fairly smooth and not full of stress. But I no longer even am agitating for a future here - I no longer have hope that such is possible in the United States and under the current social and political climate. For those reading this shaking their heads and not getting it - I have one non-aggressive, non snarky news flash for you - I am far from the only one out there who thinks/believes/feels this way. I'm far from isolated in this. Rob
PS Came back to add that here's a positive spin that just came to me - should California exit, it would be a chance for those in California for whom liberalism doesn't work to move to the US and live in a more conservative friendly climate. Seriously, maybe overall California separating would be a GOOD thing.....though I still can't realistically see it happening. What does give me a trace of hope is that every day Trump remains in office carrying on in his current manner means more and more Californians moving towards psychologically wanting to break free from the United States. So.....ironically enough, perhaps Mr. Trump might end out giving me something that works for me - a chance to start over in another country without a great deal of hassle. Who knows?
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
gimmethesimplelife
2-25-17, 10:24pm
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zoneI'm very grateful that Phoenix is not within the 100 miles this applies to. Though I am doing absolutely nothing the government could get me for, I still feel as if I've dodged a bullet by ending out outside of this zone. My question, however, is this: How much longer until this zone, due to government overreach, constitutes the entire United States? Anyone want to place bets that this changes before Trump's time in office is over? Rob
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
It looks like the feds could "police state" the bluest part of blue states pretty effectively under the guise of "protecting our borders". I hope it does not come down to that.
How long has the 100 mile zone existed?
How long has the 100 mile zone existed?
1953. I think the practice of not stopping enforcement right on the painted border line predates that significantly.
2008 however is the first time the people of my county were consistently herded into barbed-wire enclosures while travelling.
I think I see where this is going...
"Bannon says that the post-World War II political and economic consensus is failing and should be replaced with a system that empowers ordinary people over coastal elites and international institutions." (Washington Post)
"Papers please," indeed.
I think I see where this is going...
"Bannon says that the post-World War II political and economic consensus is failing and should be replaced with a system that empowers ordinary people over coastal elites and international institutions." (Washington Post
"Papers please," indeed.
Upcoming - my on-the-ground research report from The Channel Islands :-)
Ha! I think I'll just volunteer for house arrest. At least until the cozy for-profit detention camps are ready for occupancy.
Ha! I think I'll just volunteer for house arrest. At least until the cozy for-profit detention camps are ready for occupancy.
http://www.greatbritishchefs.com/restaurants/channel-islands-restaurants
http://www.greatbritishchefs.com/restaurants/channel-islands-restaurants
You have to know when to jump; I know the drill--I've read many accounts of the Holocaust. Pack your bug-out bag.
You have to know when to jump; I know the drill--I've read many accounts of the Holocaust. Pack your bug-out bag.
I'll save you a seat at the bar :-)
IshbelRobertson
2-26-17, 6:37pm
I love Jersey and Guernsey, I've even visited Sark.
Incan vouch for the cuisine!
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