View Full Version : New travel ban
flowerseverywhere
3-7-17, 8:11am
The new Muslim ban Is out, although they deny calling it that. If only Trump had consulted legal counsel and had a much better thought out and crafted ban the first time out there would have been way fewer problems.
It it looks like there is much less of an uproar in the media and congress over it, as green card holders and those with Visa's will supposedly be able to enter. And it gives a week for training and clarification to happen before it is enforced. The biggest question is will it have any effect on terrorist related activity in our country, good or bad.
I think this this has been a very valuable learning experience of our inexperienced executive branch. You cannot just wave a wand and make new policy. Now someone just needs to take his tweeter away.
Maybe people are relieved it isn't going to cause as much trauma as the first fiasco, but it still looks like an effort to reduce the dilution of the traditional white class with little evidence it will help national security.
Of course it won't bolster national security in the slightest. The "threat from abroad" is just trumped-up (forgive me) to divert attention from real threats. Like global climate change.
Trump is the biggest threat to national security I've seen in my lifetime, what with his blustering sword rattling, byzantine Russian connections, and embrace of Breitbartian nationalism. He and his henchmen can't be gone too soon to suit me.
Of course it won't bolster national security in the slightest. The "threat from abroad" is just trumped-up (forgive me) to divert attention from real threats. Like global climate change.
Trump is the biggest threat to national security I've seen in my lifetime, what with his blustering sword rattling, byzantine Russian connections, and embrace of Breitbartian nationalism. He and his henchmen can't be gone too soon to suit me.
It's impacting the tourism industry, though. People are afraid to come here. And it's going to affect a lot of jobs.
I think it's affecting the mental health industry, too. Suicide-related calls and psychotic breaks seem to be up; at least if my monitoring of police calls is any indicator. (Successful suicides too, sadly.)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/canadian-denied-entry-us-immigrant-visa-1.4011202
Our border agencies are a mess. Now I really think the agents are trying to sc**w over Trump. I am totally embarrassed by the whole thing. If I lived overseas, I would not even try to come to the US until we figure it out. Why pay $$$ for the chance of being turned away?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/canadian-denied-entry-us-immigrant-visa-1.4011202
Our border agencies are a mess. Now I really think the agents are trying to sc**w over Trump. I am totally embarrassed by the whole thing. If I lived overseas, I would not even try to come to the US until we figure it out. Why pay $$$ for the chance of being turned away?
It's one thing to be turned away - she was detained 6 hours before being turned away. Some folks have been detained and interrogated for hours. Who wants to pay $$$ for that?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/canadian-denied-entry-us-immigrant-visa-1.4011202
Our border agencies are a mess. Now I really think the agents are trying to sc**w over Trump. I am totally embarrassed by the whole thing. If I lived overseas, I would not even try to come to the US until we figure it out. Why pay $$$ for the chance of being turned away?
It is a little harder to want to visit than it used to be.
Teacher Terry
3-7-17, 7:01pm
My DIL is from Poland and decided to get citizenship here instead of just a green card considering everything that is going on here. She will also keep her Polish one too.
I ran across this article a couple of days ago. If we go down the road with Bannon and Trump to an Aryan paradise, this is what we'll be missing out on: https://tinyurl.com/h8pqgh2
And make no mistake, their Mexican and Muslim ban is just a taste of things to come. The dumbing down continues.
I ran across this article a couple of days ago. If we go down the road with Bannon and Trump to an Aryan paradise, this is what we'll be missing out on: https://tinyurl.com/h8pqgh2
And make no mistake, their Mexican and Muslim ban is just a taste of things to come. The dumbing down continues.I think it's been about 8 years since our discussions have broached Godwin's Law. I wonder what that signifies?
Referencing the white nationalist tendencies of Steve Bannon is now the equivalent of calling him hitler?
I think it's been about 8 years since our discussions have broached Godwin's Law. I wonder what that signifies?
It signifies a sort of intellectual low tide. All kinds of smelly, unpleasant things are being exposed.
Two victim-based mindsets are clashing, summoning up ideological monsters from the vasty deep. Which is worse? The travel ban guys, keeping us safe from Somali cancer patients? Or the Berkeley Berserkers and Middlebury Marcusians roughing people up in the service of tolerance and understanding?
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; and his justice cannot sleep forever."
Referencing the white nationalist tendencies of Steve Bannon is now the equivalent of calling him hitler?Is 'white nationalist' different from 'Aryan paradise'?
I think it's been about 8 years since our discussions have broached Godwin's Law. I wonder what that signifies?
Godwin's law is expanding to include references to Aryans, apparently. It signifies that we are treading waters that have been trod before. We ignore that at our peril.
Is 'white nationalist' different from 'Aryan paradise'?
Clearly, you misconstrued a reference to the people who drove the Dravidians out of northern India.
It signifies a sort of intellectual low tide. All kinds of smelly, unpleasant things are being exposed.
Two victim-based mindsets are clashing, summoning up ideological monsters from the vasty deep. Which is worse? The travel ban guys, keeping us safe from Somali cancer patients? Or the Berkeley Berserkers and Middlebury Marcusians roughing people up in the service of tolerance and understanding?
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; and his justice cannot sleep forever."
There is such a thing as a legitimate victim, you know. Like the millions who will be without health insurance under this administration. I don't identify as a victim, and I doubt the rest of the millions who are working to resist this scourge do, either. So many fronts, so little time.
There is such a thing as a legitimate victim, you know. Like the millions who will be without health insurance under this administration. I don't identify as a victim, and I doubt the rest of the millions who are working to resist this scourge do, either. So many fronts, so little time.
There are many legitimate reasons to oppose Trump. There are also many legitimate reasons to oppose some of his opposition. There is little legitimate reason for calling people Nazis because you don't like them. It cheapens the real historical experience.
Ironically, the first Aryans were Iranian. Our White Nationalists use different descriptors now, perhaps thinking that muddies the waters.
I'm not inclined to tiptoe around an issue. Trump and his henchmen are not Nazis, but they are clearly cut from the same ideological cloth.
Ironically, the first Aryans were Iranian. Our White Nationalists use different descriptors now, perhaps thinking that muddies the waters.
My understanding was that pretty much nobody uses the word "Aryan" these days, unless they are being sly/dog-whistling. Or are actual Nazis.
Is 'white nationalist' different from 'Aryan paradise'?
Not being an insider with the white nationalists I have to admit that I'm not sure if they still use Aryan or if they've ever spoken of an Aryan paradise. It's possible that Jane was being politically insensitive of the white nationalists.
In any case, at this point Bannin isnt hitler, only a hitler wannabe so Godwin' law doesn't seem to apply here.
In any case, at this point Bannin isnt hitler, only a hitler wannabe so Godwin' law doesn't seem to apply here.
I think if you were to ask Mr. Godwin, he'd disagree: "Godwin's law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons."
Godwin's law is expanding to include references to Aryans, apparently. It signifies that we are treading waters that have been trod before. We ignore that at our peril.
Not to be silly, Jane, but if you have trod the waters before, doesn't that put us in such elite company that we would be able to solve these problems instantly? Or is your metaphor getting even subtler?
Are we now treading water when we used to walk on water?
I haven't personally trod (treaded?) fascist waters--i'm a bit too young for that. (And although I'm very buoyant, I'm not a water-strider. :cool:)
I would be thrilled if Jesus were to come back and let us know what He thinks of current events (He'd have his hands full with the money changers who are running the show, I suspect). But I'd be vastly surprised if he did, and would have to rethink my deism/agnostic/pantheist world view.
ToomuchStuff
3-14-17, 4:11pm
Is 'white nationalist' different from 'Aryan paradise'?
I would certainly think so. Any student of history, could look back at the USA before WWII, and see how the USA was filled with white men, who were nationalistic and wanting nothing to do with WWII as well as how much antisemitism there was in this country.
Where an Aryan Paradise was something the Nazi's strove for, and that in itself, could have eventually gone against Hitler, since he had a Jewish mother and as in all religions, some seem to believe if one has something in their blood (color, religion, etc), then they are tainted.
But what do I know, I only have talked to someone (neighbor) that grew up over there, during and after the war, as well as another friend, whose family was brought over because of the V2 rocket program (otherwise he would have been at Nuremberg for running the camp he did).
Now what about the black nationalists? (Nation of Islam, for instance) Where is the condemnation of them as well for their belief's? Be careful becoming the thought police as ones own thoughts would also be subject to someones else's view.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/hdvbPFusrUPerRrQt0qe-J4eyoauwg7Sae0Z0hXdn8fgu9WQW9NKkaWiPM74mkEwzCevseV L0N64Cf24SMudLUklr9E6cipx5whJUrPDmbDbsp-ew-Yo4XB2INnY=s0-d
I get the impression that some of you are skeptical about whether Steve Bannon is serious about his stated opinion that we're in the throws of a fourth turning and in need of a 'cleansing war' against radical Islam and that the war will likely be bigger than the last fourth turning war (WWII) since that one was bigger than the prior fourth turning war (civil war)and that one the one before it (the revolution).
I don't take Mr. Bannon seriously.
I don't take many of the people who take Mr. Bannon seriously seriously. Especially the ones who see jackboots in our future.
I don't take the Strauss-Howe Generational Theory seriously.
We seem to be living in a golden age of paranoid nuttiness and perfervid political fantasy.
Thus, I drink.
If it weren't for the position he currently has I wouldn't take him seriously either. And having read Strauss-Howe I don't think bannon has a terribly good understanding of their theory.
Drinking seems to,be a reasonable way of dealing it's current events. Although I suppose now is the time to point out that neither hitler nor trump drank/drink. Coincidence? Or...
Teacher Terry
3-14-17, 7:30pm
Hitler used drugs and maybe Donald does too. It might explain the bizarre behavior.
iris lilies
3-14-17, 9:14pm
Hitler used drugs and maybe Donald does too. It might explain the bizarre behavior.
There is a most interesting new book out about that era of Hitler's life and drug use in WWII. The author says that the
Germans perfected a drug that is the same as Meth-amphetamine and they fed it to their soldiers regularly.
Meanwhile, the Allies were shipping in red wine to make the French troops happy.
Guess whoch army was faster, more alert, less afraid, and didnt need sleep?
There is a most interesting new book out about that era of Hitler's life and drug use in WWII. The author says that the
Germans perfected a drug that is the same as Meth-amphetamine and they fed it to their soldiers regularly.
Meanwhile, the Allies were shipping in red wine to make the French troops happy.
Guess whoch army was faster, more alert, less afraid, and didnt need sleep?
And perhaps the overconfidence that often accompanies use of that type of drug is what lead hitler to engage on two fronts at once, costing them the war.
There is a most interesting new book out about that era of Hitler's life and drug use in WWII. The author says that the
Germans perfected a drug that is the same as Meth-amphetamine and they fed it to their soldiers regularly.
Meanwhile, the Allies were shipping in red wine to make the French troops happy.
Guess whoch army was faster, more alert, less afraid, and didnt need sleep?
But look at the final result. In the long run, I'll bet on the honest drinking man over a tweaker every time.
iris lilies
3-15-17, 10:01am
And perhaps the overconfidence that often accompanies use of that type of drug is what lead hitler to engage on two fronts at once, costing them the war.
Yes, that was covered by the author. Hitler regularly puzzled his generals because he ordered them onwards and upwards when all they saw indicated the Reich's military position was crumbling. They assumed he had insider knowledge. But he only had insider drugs.
Yes, that was covered by the author. Hitler regularly puzzled his generals because he ordered them onwards and upwards when all they saw indicated the Reich's military position was crumbling. They assumed he had insider knowledge. But he only had insider drugs.
If only Nancy Reagan had been there to helpfully tell him to "just say no" perhaps we'd all be speaking German right now.
So, now that we're nearing 60 days since the first muslim ban was implemented I imagine that trump's people have pretty much figured out the extreme vetting that they said they needed a 60 day ban to implement. I wonder when we're going to hear about what the new vetting procedure is? I keep checking twitter, but nothing...
iris lilies
3-15-17, 11:12pm
So, now that we're nearing 60 days since the first muslim ban was implemented I imagine that trump's people have pretty much figured out the extreme vetting that they said they needed a 60 day ban to implement. I wonder when we're going to hear about what the new vetting procedure is? I keep checking twitter, but nothing...
I would not expect, and do not expect, but there would necessarily be a whole new vetting process. I understood the point of a halt on immigration from problem areas to be that vetting procedure would be reviewed. A review might show things are OK.
I would not expect, and do not expect, but there would necessarily be a whole new vetting process. I understood the point of a halt on immigration from problem areas to be that vetting procedure would be reviewed. A review might show things are OK.
A legitimate review probably would show things are ok, considering what actually is already done. But of course we won't ever get that or a new procedure. Much more likely is that trump will still be talking about how we can't let these folks in because they are too dangerous and we aren't properly vetting them for about as long as he still has a twitter account. Or until he's impeached. Whichever comes first. After all, we can't really start vetting them before we stop letting them come in. Or something. (I can see a new slogan here! No letting before vetting!)
And now that the so called judge in Hawaii (I haven't fully read up on this latest judge to personally attack him. I wonder if he's also mexican despite his wholesome american sounding name...) has blocked his latest muslim ban we just can't possibly start to figure out who we're letting in.
A legitimate review probably would show things are ok, considering what actually is already done. But of course we won't ever get that or a new procedure. Much more likely is that trump will still be talking about how we can't let these folks in because they are too dangerous and we aren't properly vetting them for about as long as he still has a twitter account. Or until he's impeached. Whichever comes first. After all, we can't really start vetting them before we stop letting them come in. Or something. (I can see a new slogan here! No letting before vetting!)
And now that the so called judge in Hawaii (I haven't fully read up on this latest judge to personally attack him. I wonder if he's also mexican despite his wholesome american sounding name...) has blocked his latest muslim ban we just can't possibly start to figure out who we're letting in.
Wasn't the list of 7 countries compiled because the other countries themselves had no reliable way of assisting in the vetting process? How can the receiving country properly vet an immigrant without the assistance of the country of origin?
Regarding the Judge in Hawaii, from what I've read he's basing his legal decision on campaign utterances rather than the content of the EO. If that's true, it sounds ripe for reversal.
There are an awful lot of Circuit Court Judges out there. Do they all get a crack, or is there something unique about Hawaii relevant to immigration?
There are a lot of District Court judges out there. Do they all get a crack, or is there something unique about Hawaii and immigration?
Looks like the Supreme Court may have a different view.
gimmethesimplelife
6-26-17, 11:37am
Of course it won't bolster national security in the slightest. The "threat from abroad" is just trumped-up (forgive me) to divert attention from real threats. Like global climate change.
Trump is the biggest threat to national security I've seen in my lifetime, what with his blustering sword rattling, byzantine Russian connections, and embrace of Breitbartian nationalism. He and his henchmen can't be gone too soon to suit me.+1,000,000 Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-26-17, 11:39am
There is a most interesting new book out about that era of Hitler's life and drug use in WWII. The author says that the
Germans perfected a drug that is the same as Meth-amphetamine and they fed it to their soldiers regularly.
Meanwhile, the Allies were shipping in red wine to make the French troops happy.
Guess whoch army was faster, more alert, less afraid, and didnt need sleep?And still lost anyway, Thank God. I may be as Austrian as you can possibly be without holding the passport and living in the Homeland but I'm still glad the Germans were defeated in World War 2. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-26-17, 11:48am
It's impacting the tourism industry, though. People are afraid to come here. And it's going to affect a lot of jobs.My family in Austria is afraid to come here now.....they won't be visiting until "Your Orange Fool is Gone" (their words, not mine, though I do agree with the sentiment)......they tell me that of their friends, none wish to visit the United States at this time.....the big places now are Thailand, Canada, and Australia. This is going to impact tourism and international business travel to the US resulting in a loss of jobs in the 85006 (and many other zip codes, I refer to the 85006 as I have witnessed first hand the destruction of income Trump's policies have created in the reduction of hours endured by hotel workers in my zip code). Trump really is a disaster for the lower social classes and he can't be out of office soon enough. I only hope there is not a revolution while he is still in office - I can realistically see such happening with all the free floating intense fear of America that is part of the national landscape these days. Ay Carumba, what a mess. So much simpler it would have been to elect Hillary instead. At least I can honestly say that I did not vote for Trump and that I am part of the resistance in the 85006. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-26-17, 11:54am
There is such a thing as a legitimate victim, you know. Like the millions who will be without health insurance under this administration. I don't identify as a victim, and I doubt the rest of the millions who are working to resist this scourge do, either. So many fronts, so little time.At this point, if you don't have two bags packed and some basic plan in place to flee America......I really question your take on the world. I know this is a harsh statement to make and I'm not trying to stir the pot or create controversy - I am only injecting the take of the lower social classes into this discussion, and yes, as someone familiar with the take of the lower social classes - at least locally here in the 85006 - I can tell you this take is widespread. Fear and distrust of America and living day to day with no real goals as there is no faith that fleeing won't be necessary at the drop of a hat - this is America in the lower social classes now. One good thing I can say, and there is nothing but sincerity and no snark at all here - one good thing I can say about Trump being in office is that the world is getting to see more and more with each passing day what the United States is truly about - and we are being rejected more and more by the rest of the world. This can only be a good thing, methinks.......so it's not all bad. Rob
I may be as Austrian as you can possibly be without holding the passport and living in the Homeland ...
Do you speak Österreichisches Deutsch?
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/austria-targets-citizens-turkish-passports/
At this point, if you don't have two bags packed and some basic plan in place to flee America......I really question your take on the world. I know this is a harsh statement to make and I'm not trying to stir the pot or create controversy - I am only injecting the take of the lower social classes into this discussion, and yes, as someone familiar with the take of the lower social classes - at least locally here in the 85006 - I can tell you this take is widespread. Fear and distrust of America and living day to day with no real goals as there is no faith that fleeing won't be necessary at the drop of a hat
What kind of hat would have to drop to make you execute your plan?
What kind of hat would have to drop to make you execute your plan?
someone else to pay for it.
iris lilies
6-26-17, 1:10pm
someone else to pay for it.
Take up a collection?
A constant crying wolf is wearing.
I'm curious on what country's are accepting those from the lower social classes.
ive checked a few places in the past and most want skills or money. I read today that Canada has a big backlog, I guess they just don't open the doors for those crossing the northern border either. And don't try to get in if you've ever been arrested, that's probably keeping a lot of the Hollywood types from going.
ToomuchStuff
6-27-17, 12:21pm
I'm curious on what country's are accepting those from the lower social classes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2quonm59Kc
I think Mr Rodgers is its leader.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.