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View Full Version : The biggest threat facing middle-age men isn’t smoking or obesity. It’s loneliness.



Ultralight
3-17-17, 7:38am
This article is worth a read.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2017/03/09/the-biggest-threat-facing-middle-age-men-isn-smoking-obesity-loneliness/k6saC9FnnHQCUbf5mJ8okL/story.html#comments

So much of what the author says has been my experience and my observations with other men as we got zooming into middle age. Though my experience as a divorcee might actually make my loneliness more profound.

There certainly is something deeply uncomfortable about admitting I am lonesome.

There is also something deeply uncomfortable in those to whom I admit my loneliness. It actually makes others withdraw more rather than reach out more.

Though I will say I am trying to figure a way to take advantage of his idea for reversing this awful trend.

flowerseverywhere
3-17-17, 8:06am
This is why so many people (men and women alike) live in Retirement communities. Easy to find golf buddies, arts and crafts friends, people who like the same team you do,and want to meet at the sports bar for a burger, or play poker or bowl or work towards a charitable cause.
I was skeptical when I moved to a large retirement community but seeing most of the men and women around me find their tribe has been great.

When you work work full time and balance family, home and work responsibilities it can be impossible to also have friendships with any regularity. Just no time. Some people have a church family or other similar interest, but religious affiliation has greatly decreased through the years. It is very hard to take the time and find the right people to form these bonds with.

So your question Ultralight was how to reverse the loneliness trend. What do you like to do? Are you a sports fan? What about inviting some people to the next game to a sports bar or your house to watch the game. Join a YMCA and I bet you will see the same people over and over who help each other get fit. Many members post about their interactions with friends and acquaintances through many activities. They might not have started by looking for buddies but it is the inevitable outcome of doing what you enjoy. I have my quilting, Others have their scuba diving, community gardens, racquetball or tennis games, card games, volunteering in the community as a first responder or in pet rescue, lending a hand at a soup kitchen and so on.

One thing I have seen about living in a retirement community is that if you wait until someone comes and knocks on your door you will remain lonely. You have to go out of your house and seek activities, no matter how painful it seems. And if your first idea does not work, find a different one. One step at a time.

catherine
3-17-17, 8:09am
I've read similar studies. I can kind of relate this to my own DH's experience, and he's past middle age at this point, but I've seen his dwindling social connections over the past 10 years. He's a VERY outgoing guy, and I've always been a bit concerned about him since his business dried up and he let his employees go and returned to working out of his home office. Not a great environment for an extravert.

So now, it places a burden on me because whenever I travel, he hates it. He hates being alone. I never felt this urgency to get home from a business trip even when my kids were teenagers!

Ironically, as outgoing as he is, he has a hard time making friends and nurturing friendships--I think that those skills are a little more natural for women. Plus, he always depended on his three sons for male companionship, but they are either too busy with their own families or they're 7 hours away. Plus, it's not right to depend on your own children to fulfill your social needs.

He used to golf a lot, but now his knee bothers him and he has some other medical issues that have pushed him away from regular involvement in "guy things."

UA, I'm sorry you are in that boat at this point in your life. I don't have any suggestions--if I did I would have offered them to my husband. Loneliness is a bitch, but at least it's not irreversible.

Ultralight
3-17-17, 8:21am
The author explained that men bond into friendship through going through something together, something challenging, like school, military, or some such.

catherine
3-17-17, 8:23am
One place where my husband has found some camaraderie (as have I) is our local permaculture farm. The "kids" who run it are much, much younger than we are, but they host pot lucks and there is a great diversity of people who hang out there. We volunteer and we see other people then as well.

So, I looked up volunteer opportunities for farming in Columbus, and here you go: http://urbanfarmsofcentralohio.org/be-involved/volunteer/

This would meld nicely with your "clean eating"! Just a thought.

Zoe Girl
3-17-17, 8:30am
Oh yes, I totally see this and as much as I struggle I see men struggle more. We just make it worse with so many little ways as a culture we work with this. If someone is not too perfect or annoying we avoid that. If our schedule is packed we 'take care of ourselves' at the expense of maintaining relationships. It seems we just expect that people will be there whether or not we put in effort, and then they are not.

I know that I have also had the experience of people withdrawing rather than reaching out when I take a risk and share a little. For me it is great that I have family, however those single parent years really took a toll. I was always having something with my kids or my multiple jobs, and not being a couple I didn't get the family friend benefit. Honestly I am pretty disappointed in my fellow humans on this. I am making very slow progress on this, and the years when I was not as much fun but still wanted to have friends are painful to recall.

Just this week I snapped at one of the teachers at my school. The first day of school we found out we had things in common, we have talked about meeting for coffee or going to a movie since then. All winter break I worked and still called her. I eventually saw once again I was doing all the calling in a friendship so I backed off. I went by her room to tell her something about a kid and she started talking about stuff (she will talk my ear off in her room, on her time, on her topics), and said I don't know what she is going through. I answered that was exactly why we should go to coffee, and it was her turn to try and call me.

pinkytoe
3-17-17, 8:52am
Having recently retired, I realize now thow many of my connections came from the work world. Prior to that, it was friendships around having kids. Once those two things are gone, it becomes much harder to find social connections. Moving to an entirely new area is forcing DH and I to get out there and look for new connections via classes and volunteer or community work. I see it will not be as easy for DH though. As much as I loathe the idea right now, I can see us moving to a 55+ community in a few years just for the camaraderie and support of people in the same boat. That being said, I think the media does a good job of finding topics that make us feel bad about ourselves. I don't think it so much about being alone (some of us love that situation) but how you decide to feel about being alone. I have always been a fairly solitary person - it is my nature - and once I accepted that, it doesn't seem like an issue - until I read another article about how bad it is to be alone.

LDAHL
3-17-17, 9:08am
The author explained that men bond into friendship through going through something together, something challenging, like school, military, or some such.

I think that's very true. Most of my oldest, most solid friendships date back to school or the military. I also have an equivalent of Wednesday night I try to keep as sacred as possible. Oddly enough, my wife often pushes me to spend more time with the guys. I suspect she sees things I'm blind to in the human relations realm.

iris lilies
3-17-17, 10:22am
DH, an introvert, still has no trouble making connections with others. His no. 1 persona is "gardening guru" so he joins up with people through that and is always welcome.Last week we had a small group on our yard here to be tutored on the science of pruning fruit trees. These people were from the Sustainable Backyard Tour organizing group. He also has inserted himself into the community garden group for a nearby neighborhood and he is welcome there for his expertise in vegetables and fruit tree growing. And or course, he is the garden leader for our own neighborhood's community garden where he gives advice, builds stuff, weeds for others, etc.

He also plays cards and goes to movies regularly with friends and without me. His social network is stronger than mine.

OTOH I have many small roles in our neighborhood and talk to people through that volunteer work. I just took on a new small job, one that that wasnt being done and it pizzed me off! So I volunteered to do it. I would bet that DH couldnt name all of the small jobs I have for this neighborhood, I just go out and do them, and a fair number of them are chiefly accomplished through a computer.

The big scary change is that many of our long held friendships end because our friends are moving away.

I love St. Louis but I do sometimes think about moving. My latest thought is about moving to a small town, but maintaining an aprtment in St. Louis. The small town would have to have small town activities like history/genealogy society, garden club, etc.

Alan
3-17-17, 10:46am
I thought everyone knew men were happier when they had the opportunity to flocculate.

LDAHL
3-17-17, 10:56am
I thought everyone knew men were happier when they had the opportunity to flocculate.

That must be why my wife refers to me as "clump nugget".

Alan
3-17-17, 11:09am
That must be why my wife refers to me as "clump nugget".You should pay close attention to her facial expressions and tone of voice when she says that. Take it from someone who knows!

LDAHL
3-17-17, 12:03pm
You should pay close attention to her facial expressions and tone of voice when she says that. Take it from someone who knows!

Good advice. Next time she says "Out of my house, you egregious clump nugget", I'll make a point of trying to parse the nuanced emotional subtext.

Williamsmith
3-17-17, 12:34pm
I have the opposite problem. I have always been solitary but forced into social interaction. I can fake it when I have to. Like last weeks purgatory on a wedding cruise with 2500 other tourists to Cozumel and Progresso. Most people find me interactive enough to like me but given the choice I would probably be on a small farm in the mountains of some state that doesn't tax my pension living a subsistence life with a dog, a stack of books, a camera, a guitar, a wreck the creation vehicle and some peace of mind. My life experiences probably have galvanized the way my DNA made me in the first place. I find myself to be very lonely amongst throngs of chattering people. Though, I wouldn't mind Winter company now and again. You would think I might have considered this before I married a social butterfly. Opposites attract.

Ultralight
3-17-17, 5:48pm
I am also the type of person who generally enjoys solitude. I can be alone long periods of time and really have fun -- even feel refreshed. But this is partly contextual. I love fishing alone, taking a bike ride alone, I obviously like to hide away and read books.

But what really, really hit home for me was when I got the flu about a month or so ago. I was really sick as a dog. And I simply had no one to count on.

No spouse. No friends. No family really. Sure, my sis was nearby but if I had a spiked fever and went into a delirium then I'd have been out of luck.

I had no one to check on me or watch over me. Granted, I am 37, so I bounced back. But imagine if I was 77. I could have been found dead weeks later and my poor dog would have died of thirst.

But throw on top of this the idea that when I am not doing the things I like to do in solitude (fishing, reading, etc.) I'd like to have some friends or a significant other. It'd be nice to go on walks or cook dinner with a significant other. It'd be nice to go on a long canoe trip with some good friends. It'd be nice to have cook outs and such with a circle of friends.

But I have nothing like that.

My atheist crew is all acquaintances. I can't count on them for things like taking me to or picking me up from the airport or for helping me move. Don't get me wrong, they are great folks. But the friendship bonds are simply not there.

Tybee
3-17-17, 6:23pm
Sounds like your forays into online dating are a good idea! There are definitely benefits of facing life with a long-term partner, especially if you suffer from loneliness.

Ultralight
3-17-17, 7:11pm
Sounds like your forays into online dating are a good idea! There are definitely benefits of facing life with a long-term partner, especially if you suffer from loneliness.

To be honest with you, I sometimes wonder if online dating actually makes me feel more lonesome. I can't really say why. It is like eating spongecake. You might enjoy it and momentarily feel energized and full by it. But it does not actually nourish you emotionally.

Tybee
3-17-17, 7:41pm
To be honest with you, I sometimes wonder if online dating actually makes me feel more lonesome. I can't really say why. It is like eating spongecake. You might enjoy it and momentarily feel energized and full by it. But it does not actually nourish you emotionally.

I think that is because we all need "irl" relationships. Hopefully, some of the online friends might become "irl" friends.

Ultralight
3-17-17, 8:07pm
You'd think they'd become "irl" but it ain't as easy as you think.

ToomuchStuff
3-18-17, 1:24am
NSFW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jaqBRsTQgI

I certainly understand where Williamsmith is coming from. I see that often in LEO friends. We visit and are cordial when around my work, or if we run into one another outside of it, but generally, we all just go our own ways. Then again, I have had a few UC LEO friends, and years ago, when I was a kid, I was told by one, if you see me out, don't acknowledge me, unless I acknowledge you first.
The closest I would probably have, outside of work are two relatives who are within 5 years of retirement. They both are looking forward to what we did in our 20's (spending time computer gaming), but they don't really have hobbies outside of that. I will be working, probably until I die. I know of several "friends", that while we rarely "hang out", we do get together when someone needs a hand and do stuff. Several of them are still working, past their 70's, because they enjoy it.
Years ago, I had a radiator fixed, by a guy on his last day, and he was finally retiring at 90. Another friend, who was "forced to retire" at 65, due to cancer, beat his cancer and asked me to bring him something, and when I did, I rang the bell, his wife answered, and I said "can Tommy come out and play?".
I seem to get along better with older people then with those my own age, who want to drink, get stoned, play on the computer all day, etc. I don't really share interests with those of my generation and there are some things I enjoy, that others don't want to do, because it is work (shooting for instance, a lot of cops don't want to spend a day off at the range).
But generally I think Chris Rock has it right. In some other act (couldn't find it), a comedian says if your single, you want to kill yourself. If your married, you want to kill them.

flowerseverywhere
3-18-17, 7:00am
I seem to get along better with older people then with those my own age, who want to drink, get stoned, play on the computer all day, etc. I don't really share interests with those of my generation and there are some things I enjoy, that others don't want to do, because it is work (shooting for instance, a lot of cops don't want to spend a day off at the range).


well I am in my 60's and a lot of people in my age group want to drink, get stoned, watch tv or play on computer all day. There are all types of people in every age group. The difficulty is in finding them with everyone's head buried in a cellphone or behind a screen.

I go back to my original suggestion. People are not going to come knocking at your door.

For instance, I go to the gym. Groups of people go at the same time and you see friendships form as they work out together and do things like races. Some work a few hours at the gym.
Golf, bowling, hiking and biking clubs, people who get together to root a sports team, gardening clubs, people who volunteer to organize the parades, rotary and lions clubs, the possibilities are endless. We have a biking friend who was single and childless, whose lovely wife died of a horrible cancer, who worked Saturdays at the local bike store. It was a perfect transition to his retirement as he was doing what he loved. Now he works part time after retirement and heads a charity to recondition donated bikes for disadvantaged teens. Some people docent at historical houses, gardens museums and so on. DH joined a model train club. A bunch of old guys playing with trains. He loves it. I belong to a quilt guild and work on my clay at a pottery studio. I am in heaven.

I volunteer at at the library one or two days a month. I cannot tell you how many older men hang around to talk to the volunteer on duty (there are two of us a day working the used book rooms.) . They are just plain lonely. I suggest they volunteer there and several have. They just didn't think of it.

Here's another thing. Dissatisfied with the current or past government? Find your local political party group. They are always looking for boots on the ground to make calls, fund raise, drive people to polls.

If if you try something and don't like it, don't do it again. Try something else. Baby steps.

Imagine what your life would be like with no phone, no TV, no computer. What would you do all day?

ToomuchStuff
3-18-17, 11:01am
I go back to my original suggestion. People are not going to come knocking at your door.
Yes they are, solicitors and Jehovah's Witnesses. (and you can have fun with them)
If if you try something and don't like it, don't do it again. Try something else. Baby steps.

Imagine what your life would be like with no phone, no TV, no computer. What would you do all day?

The activities that I am interested in, are or tend to be solitary ones. (or ones you wouldn't want someone else to muck up).
What your describing sounds like preindustrial society, or I would be back in the woodshop, building something. (again, not a group thing)
Some of us aren't wired for groups.
I have been in a room of close to 200 people that I know (some you would classify as friends, others long time aquaintence), and still feel alone, like an observer rather then participant (even though one is the later). Sometimes the feelings have nothing to do with reality.

Oddball
3-18-17, 2:01pm
Great article. You're lucky you're starting to deal with these issues at 37. That's 10-20 years earlier than many men. Countless others never tackle them. There are a thousand roads out, and you'll find your own when you're ready. I'm almost 50 and still traveling mine. If it helps to know you're not alone, check out "Understanding Men's Passages" by Gail Sheehy. In fiction, try "Steppenwolf" by H. Hesse. Also pay attention to the Tin Man in "The Wizard of Oz." There are lots of this archetype out there. Rick Blaine in "Cassablanca," Jules Verne's Captain Nemo, the butler in "The Remains of the Day." In real life, we had Elvis, Thoreau, Sinatra, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash. The list goes on. Some of these characters might seem so different on the surface, but underneath, they are and were all being eaten from the inside by the same disease.

flowerseverywhere
3-18-17, 3:00pm
The activities that I am interested in, are or tend to be solitary ones. (or ones you wouldn't want someone else to muck up).
What your describing sounds like preindustrial society, or I would be back in the woodshop, building something. (again, not a group thing)
Some of us aren't wired for groups.
I have been in a room of close to 200 people that I know (some you would classify as friends, others long time aquaintence), and still feel alone, like an observer rather then participant (even though one is the later). Sometimes the feelings have nothing to do with reality.

all well and good, but the situation the OP wrote about in post #15, about being ill and no one to call n to help, or check on him. It is not a bad idea to have some acquaintances that at least you could rely on someone if you had to. You don't have to be besties but it does not hurt to have some relationships. I think many of us are loners to some degree, but we do some social activities that are not our favorite just to keep,some contacts up. Most of us are far removed from small town living with lifelong neighbors, friends and an extended family.

Yppej
3-18-17, 5:41pm
I'm not going to pay 99 cents to read the article, but I was under the impression middle aged white men's life expectancy was going down as more die of suicide and drug and alcohol addiction due to declining real wages and the realization their generation is worse off than the one before whereas their expectations were the opposite, and that men of color aren't seeing shortened life spans because in the era of mass incarceration they never expected a fair shake from society to begin with.

razz
3-18-17, 6:38pm
While I have not read the article either, one comment that I would make is that older men often seem unhappy. I have wondered why as they have reached the stage where they have succeeded and are reaping the results. Their wives/partners seem to be quite content. What came to me was that women reach out to others to serve whereas men have difficulty doing so.
I watched DH struggle because he had trouble making a commitment to serve. Was it the fact of facing daily commitment to the job for so long that it was better to avoid commitment? Was it lack of social skills since the job had a defined role? There was nothing that he would not do for me or our children and the involvements that arose that we undertook. He would not do anything solo though or with others.
The tragedy is people then become self-centred in their unhappiness and start the addiction downward spiral.
Good thread, UL.

Ultralight
3-18-17, 6:46pm
I'm not going to pay 99 cents to read the article, but I was under the impression middle aged white men's life expectancy was going down as more die of suicide and drug and alcohol addiction due to declining real wages and the realization their generation is worse off than the one before whereas their expectations were the opposite, and that men of color aren't seeing shortened life spans because in the era of mass incarceration they never expected a fair shake from society to begin with.

It seems like some folks like to gloat over white men being lonely, suicidal, drunken, opiate addicts.

Like: "Ha! Your life used to be all steaks and Ferraris. Now you have to have a crappy life of relative poverty in rural Ohio! Serves you right!"

catherine
3-18-17, 6:47pm
The tragedy is people then become self-centred in their unhappiness and start the addiction downward spiral.
Good thread, UL.

So true.. I've seen that with BIL. It's always "all about him." He never asks how I am, or what was my day like? I'm not seeking his interest in my life, but I've found that the people who are the happiest are the ones who put themselves out there. My MIL was the same after she retired. We tried to get her to go to the Senior Center, but she just withdrew into her aches and pains and apathy toward life.

JaneV2.0
3-18-17, 6:57pm
I don't "put myself out there," and I likely wouldn't respond positively to an invite to the old folks, er Senior Center, either. My partner is a whirling social dervish. People are different, and have different motivations and needs. Mostly, I'm happy as a clam in mud here at home. I'm glad I don't have kids and in-laws tsk-tsking about my life choices, frankly.

catherine
3-18-17, 7:04pm
I don't "put myself out there," and I likelu wouldn't respond positively to an invite to the <s>old folks</s>Senior Center, either. My partner is a whirling social dervish. People are different, and have different motivations and needs. Mostly, I'm happy as a clam in mud here at home. I'm glad I don't have kids and in-laws tsk-tsking about my life choices, frankly.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was being judgmental, but she was not "happy as a clam" at all. She was very unhappy and probably depressed. Ironically, I remember her prodding her own mother to go out and meet people. I loved her, and I am not "tsk'ing" I would have loved for her to have enjoyed her life at the end, that's all. I'm very sorry she didn't.

ApatheticNoMore
3-18-17, 7:17pm
cook together hehehe, yea a little bit but for the most part in reality it's either go out or I do most of the cooking. Yea I'm a woman last I checked and so that's the way it goes I guess. It's work.

Ultralight
3-18-17, 7:19pm
I put myself out there. I am relentlessly social. I am actually interested in other people and I am curious about their lives, ideas, and experiences. Maybe I come off a little journalistic, but I don't know.

Ultralight
3-18-17, 7:20pm
cook together hehehe, yea a little bit but for the most part in reality it's either go out or I do most of the cooking. Yea I'm a woman last I checked and so that's the way it goes I guess. It's work.

I always contributed 50% of the cooking labor.

JaneV2.0
3-18-17, 7:25pm
I'm sorry if it sounded like I was being judgmental, but she was not "happy as a clam" at all. She was very unhappy and probably depressed. Ironically, I remember her prodding her own mother to go out and meet people. I loved her, and I am not "tsk'ing" I would have loved for her to have enjoyed her life at the end, that's all. I'm very sorry she didn't.

There are certainly things I would/could change about my life, but I suspect that's true of most people. Solitude isn't one of them--though I've thought seriously of moving closer to my loved ones--I'm in constant touch with them, so there's that. It would annoy me no end if people were trying to nudge me into being the extrovert I've never been.

catherine
3-18-17, 7:37pm
There are certainly things I would/could change about my life, but I suspect that's true of most people. Solitude isn't one of them--though I've thought seriously of moving closer to my loved ones--I'm in constant touch with them, so there's that. It would annoy me no end if people were trying to nudge me into being the extrovert I've never been.

I hear ya. I'm an introvert, too. Extremely uncomfortable in social situations, but have made do in the business world. OTOH, my MIL was a blazing extrovert and would disparage quiet people with the saying "still waters run deep"--which she used as an insult. So that's why it was sad for me to see her unhappy. She didn't retire until she was 75 and I think she really missed her purpose at her job.

JaneV2.0
3-18-17, 7:55pm
I hear ya. I'm an introvert, too. Extremely uncomfortable in social situations, but have made do in the business world. OTOH, my MIL was a blazing extrovert and would disparage quiet people with the saying "still waters run deep"--which she used as an insult. So that's why it was sad for me to see her unhappy. She didn't retire until she was 75 and I think she really missed her purpose at her job.

People make their own happiness, barring crippling depression. She probably did miss her job, but her unhappiness was her own.
Hypercritical people always strike me as miserable.

pinkytoe
3-18-17, 8:06pm
Just my armchair observation UL, but there are lots of thirty something women out there who don't really want kids but are absolutely in love with their dog children. Having dogs seems to be ice breakers at the park I walk at daily as I see all kinds of folk, young and old, stopping to chat about their dogs and compare notes. Do you go to dog parks often??

Alan
3-18-17, 8:07pm
It seems like some folks like to gloat over white men being lonely, suicidal, drunken, opiate addicts.

Like: "Ha! Your life used to be all steaks and Ferraris. Now you have to have a crappy life of relative poverty in rural Ohio! Serves you right!" If it makes you feel better, I just had a wonderful steak as part of my relatively prosperous and seriously happy life as an older white male in semi-rural Ohio. Buying into stereotypes is a waste of time.

Tybee
3-18-17, 8:24pm
Are there folks at school you can go out and socialize with--form a study group or something?

Ultralight
3-18-17, 8:37pm
Just my armchair observation UL, but there are lots of thirty something women out there who don't really want kids but are absolutely in love with their dog children. Having dogs seems to be ice breakers at the park I walk at daily as I see all kinds of folk, young and old, stopping to chat about their dogs and compare notes. Do you go to dog parks often??

Yup, I take Harlan to the parks. I spark up conversations here and there. As I said, I am a curious person and friendly. I have met a couple women at these places. Nothing came of it though.

Ultralight
3-18-17, 8:42pm
If it makes you feel better, I just had a wonderful steak as part of my relatively prosperous and seriously happy life as an older white male in semi-rural Ohio. Buying into stereotypes is a waste of time.

I am glad you enjoy your life. I don't necessarily buy into the stereotypes. But I have known some leftists that ought to have more compassion about white men with addictions and loneliness. But they just seem to barely contain their giddiness at the end of what they see as "white male privilege."

While I do believe there is some white privilege and some male privilege, I also think white men assume some risks too, and perhaps they negate much or all of the privilege. After all, more than 7 out of 10 suicides are white men. If that were any other demographic there'd be a massive public outcry. So that is what I meant, being a white dude ain't all steaks and Ferraris.

Ultralight
3-18-17, 8:43pm
Are there folks at school you can go out and socialize with--form a study group or something?

I have tried to get something like this together. One dude is down for it. So every other week we'll meet up for a meal at a restaurant. Good dude, means well, though he is a bit of a SJW.

Alan
3-18-17, 8:52pm
I am glad you enjoy your life. I don't necessarily buy into the stereotypes. But I have known some leftists that ought to have more compassion about white men with addictions and loneliness. But they just seem to barely contain their giddiness at the end of what they see as "white male privilege."

While I do believe there is some white privilege and some male privilege, I also think white men assume some risks too, and perhaps they negate much or all of the privilege. After all, more than 7 out of 10 suicides are white men. If that were any other demographic there'd be a massive public outcry. So that is what I meant, being a white dude ain't all steaks and Ferraris.You've got a pretty good grasp on the obvious for a lefty. ;)

Chavez
3-20-17, 2:26am
I can't relate to being lonely and middle-aged, being a young guy, but I can relate to being lonely. I've come to realize that loneliness is a state of mind and not directly defined by the amount of people around. There are many, many times when I feel solitude rather than loneliness. Those are the times when I'm content by myself. I do like many solitary activities like reading, writing and nature photography. I'm still trying to find that balance: how much social contact do I really need and want in my life? I think it's great that in the last couple of years there has been more news coverage on loneliness. It really does take some of the sting away to know how normal and how common it really is.

My dad is 65 and about to retire later this year. I really don't know what he will do with all that free time. I think he became a lot lonelier when all of us kids had moved out of the house. He had depended on us for social contact. My uncle died recently at the age of 76, unmarried and childless. Hard to say whether it was a conscious choice on his part to live alone and not have a family. If it wasn't, then that's really sad. I'm determined to not end up like that.

Ultralight
3-20-17, 7:52am
I am currently reading Steppenwolf by Hermann Hesse. Someone on this thread mentioned it...

Zoe Girl
3-20-17, 8:35am
It is a complicated issue, I was at my nun's place with a group and when I left there was a very chatty guy who was in this situation. His youngest left home, he didn't have to work a lot, and he had just gotten divorced (but it sounded like they were separated a long time). So he was trying to make male friends and really struggling. He was nice and outgoing, but was finding it still hard to just connect with other guys. He found that through meetups he could do activities but wasn't developing the deeper friendships. Certainly not the ones who check on you when you are sick, for me it was not having someone who would be there if my car broke down for a ride.

I personally do not have any giddiness over white males having a rougher time with life, however I am baffled as to what to say or do. There is definitely a sense of not saying much because traditionally those are the people telling me how to live life, not the ones listening or having balanced discussions. I am struggling with how to say this because of course everyone is so different, but I have craved more male friendships my whole life and some of the difficulties are probably similar to why they are more lonely. I start to make friends and the 'fix it' thing is a huge barrier, telling me how to fix everything when I just wanted to share or talk. I had the best time as a teen/young adult with the punks. The worst was after my divorce when I wanted male friends and everyone thought I just wanted to sleep with them. I do love it when our meditation group is me and all men, I can be more direct with them however I also give up a little emotional closeness. There is one guy who talks about loneliness and how that leads him to bad choices. Sometimes he has had an ankle monitor but he does not tell us what he has done. So I have his phone number and need to take him to coffee, I won't go to his place because he is a smoker and I am doing good.

I think that more cross gender friendships may be the way to go. Women have different style of friendship that could be very valuable for men to learn.

Tammy
3-20-17, 10:23am
On Saturday at work I noticed that in our building we had 6 male nurses and 8 female nurses. I love how the changing face of nursing to include men is bringing balance to our profession. Diversity in any form strengthens us.

Ultralight
3-20-17, 4:56pm
On Saturday at work I noticed that in our building we had 6 male nurses and 8 female nurses. I love how the changing face of nursing to include men is bringing balance to our profession. Diversity in any form strengthens us.

Were they white males?

Tammy
3-20-17, 11:06pm
1 Black 2 hispanic and the rest white if I remember correctly

Tammy
3-20-17, 11:06pm
I work with nurses from all over the world. Every continent except Antarctica

Ultralight
3-21-17, 7:21am
1 Black 2 hispanic and the rest white if I remember correctly

I am not being snarky when I say this, but a straight white male doing anything in any field in any context cannot be considered diversity. It is the antithesis of diversity.

Chicken lady
3-21-17, 7:30am
According to Webster:

diversity:

: the condition of having or being composed of differing elements : variety (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/variety); especially : the inclusion of different types of people (as people of different races or cultures) in a group or organization programs intended to promote diversity in schools

my straight, white dh was bussed into an inner city school in his youth in order to improve the school's diversity.

in a thread related note, he may be past "middle-aged" but he is going to a concert with a guy friend tonight because he is trying to strengthen those relationships now that the kids are gone and retirement is on the horizon.

LDAHL
3-21-17, 9:29am
I am not being snarky when I say this, but a straight white male doing anything in any field in any context cannot be considered diversity. It is the antithesis of diversity.

Why is that the case? What is there about belonging to the minority of the straight, white and male that make them the "antithesis of diversity" in any conceivable situation?

Is it an ideological thing? As more and more of us demand treatment as victims, do we need to preserve an oppressor group for the sake of our narrative?

Alan
3-21-17, 9:32am
Is it an ideological thing? As more and more of us demand treatment as victims, do we need to preserve an oppressor group for the sake of our narrative?Sounds right.

iris lilies
3-21-17, 10:36am
DH and I have joked for years that we provide diversity in our politically blue neighborhood. There arent a lot of Republicans in this city.

But we are joking because as old, white, right leaning peoples, we are not a "minority" in the social justice sense of the word. We do know our true place in the world, The Enemy. :)

jp1
3-21-17, 10:42am
I am not being snarky when I say this, but a straight white male doing anything in any field in any context cannot be considered diversity. It is the antithesis of diversity.

Being a white male nurse may not seem revolutionary to you now, but it certainly was within your and my lifetimes. My sister's wife went to nursing school with an older white guy. He had wanted to be a nurse his whole life but when he got out of the army after the Korean war he was not allowed to use the GI Bill to go to nursing school. So he became a real estate lawyer in southern California instead. Made a boatload of money. And then in his 50's he decided it was time to follow his dream. Quit his job and went back to school to become a nurse.

iris lilies
3-21-17, 10:58am
Being a white male nurse may not seem revolutionary to you now, but it certainly was within your and my lifetimes. My sister's wife went to nursing school with an older white guy. He had wanted to be a nurse his whole life but when he got out of the army after the Korean war he was not allowed to use the GI Bill to go to nursing school. So he became a real estate lawyer in southern California instead. Made a boatload of money. And then in his 50's he decided it was time to follow his dream. Quit his job and went back to school to become a nurse.

Nope, sorry, it is you who doesn't understand. UL is acurately representing the dominant point of view in the world of human services.

"Diversity" doesnt mean a variety of races, religions, gender/gender identifies and ages in any situation. "Diversity" deliberately looks for traditional minorities and the down trodden, and seeks to promote them and their interests.

99% of the white men in the United States could be wiped out by a man disease, and the remaining 1% would still be considered a representative of the dominent culture. In the immediate aftermath of the ravaging ng disease, anyway. I am sure that such a society would adjust after a while to a tiny number of men and would creaye new social norms.

Tammy
3-21-17, 11:04am
1. Within the historically female field of nursing it does increase diversity to have male nurses. You are wrong. 😊

2. Did you notice that 3/8 were men of color? Did you notice that I work with nurses from 6/7 continents on earth?

I stand my ground.

😄

Tybee
3-21-17, 11:07am
White males seem to be very well represented in nursing school these days. JP1, that is a nice story--and you are right, things have really changed.

Zoe Girl
3-21-17, 11:08am
1. Within the historically female field of nursing it does increase diversity to have male nurses. You are wrong. 

2. Did you notice that 3/8 were men of color? Did you notice that I work with nurses from 6/7 continents on earth?

I stand my ground.



I stand with you, and I am in education. The work and talk we do is about diversity in a very broad way. So we DO talk about more male elementary teachers. Lots of my family and friends are in social services and education, I absolutely do NOT hear that we should be wiping out white men.

iris lilies
3-21-17, 11:08am
1. Within the historically female field of nursing it does increase diversity to have male nurses. You are wrong. 




Of course it increases "diversity" in any rational thought process.

It is not me or UL who are not rational.

Let us hope that rational thinking will overtake human services/social justice warriors. I wont hold my breath for that, however.

Tammy
3-21-17, 11:16am
UL said "I am not being snarky when I say this, but a straight white male doing anything in any field in any context cannot be considered diversity. It is the antithesis of diversity."

It seems he disagrees with you Iris Lilies.

jp1
3-21-17, 11:18am
Of course it increases "diversity" in any rational thought process.

It is not me or UL who are not rational.

Let us hope that rational thinking will overtake human services/social justice warriors. I wont hold my breath for that, however.

If you hold your breath long enough you could add a new type of blue person to your neighborhood. Blue diversity is very important.

iris lilies
3-21-17, 11:19am
UL said "I am not being snarky when I say this, but a straight white male doing anything in any field in any context cannot be considered diversity. It is the antithesis of diversity."

It seems he disagrees with you Iris Lilies.

I agree with UL above in that he is representing dominant social work thought.

I didnt think he personally buys that point of view, but I could be wrong.

iris lilies
3-21-17, 11:27am
If you hold your breath long enough you could add a new type of blue person to your neighborhood. Blue diversity is very important.
Haha, well, ok.

ApatheticNoMore
3-21-17, 12:32pm
How much dominant social work thought actually influences anyone outside of social work is probably doubtful though. Yes of course many companies try to have some sensitivity, you think they want a lawsuit, yea noone does. Yea I know everyone thinks their profession is the very mostest important of them all. The I.T. dept is convinced they are the most important in the company. The social workers I guess are convinced everyone thinks like them. But it's a blindness when you see that the rest of the world may not think so.

Now if I was asked if workplaces are diverse that are mostly white, indian, and asian (and I have been), I'd say no not exactly ... If you want people to be completely color blind (perhaps poke out their eyes to get there) and not see the lack of say hispanics and blacks ok ... but we do perceive and will continue to do so.

Teacher Terry
3-21-17, 1:50pm
SW's need to assist their clients in becoming independent in the ares that they are not adequately functioning. If you are working harder then your client you are not helping but are enabling. You need to balance empathy with expectations. The first few years in the field I worked with court ordered clients and I toughened up quickly.

gimmethesimplelife
3-21-17, 5:54pm
I read through some of the responses here and I wonder how true this holds for introverts. In my case, I really don't need (or even want) a lot of people in my life. Seriously. I have one very close friend from my college days that I can trust with anything, another close friend I met on this board actually that lives outside of DC, my husband and his family and my Mother and that's it, and that's plenty for me, personally. When I was younger and had even fewer people in my life, I never really felt lonely as I realized that in those days due to my sexual orientation I was persona non grata with many more people than I am today - this actually helped me in the sense that it forced me to find meaning outside of human relationships of any kind. Books, nature and art, especially books, have always been important to me and a way for this introvert here to be less reliant on/need human relationships less. Rob

Ultralight
3-21-17, 6:09pm
Being a white male nurse may not seem revolutionary to you now, but it certainly was within your and my lifetimes. My sister's wife went to nursing school with an older white guy. He had wanted to be a nurse his whole life but when he got out of the army after the Korean war he was not allowed to use the GI Bill to go to nursing school. So he became a real estate lawyer in southern California instead. Made a boatload of money. And then in his 50's he decided it was time to follow his dream. Quit his job and went back to school to become a nurse. When my dad came back from Vietnam in 1967 he got a job with the railroad and hated it. In the early 1970s he went to nursing school. He retired as a nurse practitioner about 5 years ago.

Ultralight
3-21-17, 6:11pm
My workplace is all women except for me. The boss is a woman and all my colleagues are women. This is a major victory in diversity, right?

JaneV2.0
3-21-17, 6:18pm
White men entering a field in any meaningful numbers generally result in higher wages. A rising tide lifts all boats, it seems.
But the converse is also true...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/upshot/as-women-take-over-a-male-dominated-field-the-pay-drops.html?_r=0

Ultralight
3-21-17, 6:24pm
Uh-oh! "The future is female!"

Ultralight
3-24-17, 8:51pm
I feel like the loneliness is crushing me.

Strangely, I am aware of how comparatively good my life is otherwise -- got an education, a decent job with benefits, a nice little apartment, a paid-off car, a bicycle, a great dog, some leisure time for fishing and reading, a sister and BIL that care about me, and a handful of acquaintances.

But it is like missing one vitamin, this loneliness. You miss just Vitamin C or D and your whole system is frickin' screwed.

Chicken lady
3-24-17, 9:09pm
Ÿou know, if you lived in Cincinnati instead of Columbus, I'd hang out with you. Maybe you could fish in my pond so you didn't have to look at the inside of my house.... But if i hadn't randomly "come here" I would never have "met" you, and the actual physical presence of you instead of the easily moderated on-line presence probably would have resulted in far less conversation, so odds are that invitation to the pond would never happen. - which is all about me and not at all about you.

i am feeling a need for more community lately and am going to take a Tuesday night gardening class at a local organic farm. I don't need the class, but it's free, and maybe I'll meet some people. But probably not. I'm not very good at creating social opportunities with the people I already know.

i like the people at the foodbank, and a couple of them live in walking distance, but they all ask me what church I go to by the third question. Somehow I don't think "none, but I'm having a bonfire for Beltane, would you like to come?" Is going to win anyone over.

Ultralight
3-24-17, 9:14pm
Thank you, Chicken Lady. That is very kind of you to say.

Chicken lady
3-24-17, 9:34pm
It wasn't meant to be kind. I find you interesting.

Zoe Girl
3-24-17, 10:35pm
Dude, I would totally hang out with you. Even if we irritated each other at times. Denver is a bit far but if you were ever traveling I would meet up. I am coming to southern Michigan this summer, not sure how many hours away Columbus is.

And I really feel you, I have been through times that were so painful with loneliness that I was not sure I could keep breathing. It has taken years to make progress. Recently I realized some of my potential friendships needed to be dropped. I was doing all the reaching out and not getting any real response. I also saw that there have been some possible connections that I have not followed up on, out of shyness or nervousness.

Yppej
3-25-17, 8:40am
UA I looked at your profile and noticed dog rescue. Have you tried volunteering at animal shelters? In my area they are full of women as are the animal rights groups out collecting signatures against puppy mills and the like.

Ultralight
3-27-17, 7:28am
Dude, I would totally hang out with you. Even if we irritated each other at times. Denver is a bit far but if you were ever traveling I would meet up. I am coming to southern Michigan this summer, not sure how many hours away Columbus is.

And I really feel you, I have been through times that were so painful with loneliness that I was not sure I could keep breathing. It has taken years to make progress. Recently I realized some of my potential friendships needed to be dropped. I was doing all the reaching out and not getting any real response. I also saw that there have been some possible connections that I have not followed up on, out of shyness or nervousness. Much Appreciated. Let me know when you are in MI.

Ultralight
3-27-17, 7:29am
UA I looked at your profile and noticed dog rescue. Have you tried volunteering at animal shelters? In my area they are full of women as are the animal rights groups out collecting signatures against puppy mills and the like.I appreciate the suggestion. I will certainly consider this.

rosarugosa
4-2-17, 2:19pm
1725


I saw this online and it made me think of this thread. :laff:

Ultralight
4-3-17, 7:59am
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1725&stc=1


I saw this online and it made me think of this thread. :laff: Number six really appeals to me!

rosarugosa
4-3-17, 7:28pm
Yes, #6 and #4 were my favorites!