View Full Version : Offer on BIL's house!
So we FINALLY put the house on the market a month ago, and today we got our first offer! It's in the ballpark of what we were hoping for. And the potential buyers are currently renting and want to close by April 28!!
Some mixed emotions--we hate in a way to give up this asset. Plus we feel we need to put in the contract deeded pooping rights for our dog, who ALWAYS makes a B-line for BIL's yard to do her business. (JK, but honestly, we need to do some serious re-training!)
But, it's such a plus for everyone involved. BIL doesn't even know yet--he's working.
We'll see what happens!
IMO, if you want to close in a month-6 wks which is wonderful, put no barriers about pooping rights or anything else to confuse the buyers and make them look elsewhere.
BIL will panic and will fight but, hopefully, you and your DH will prevail and stick to your guns to get you out of your situation. Don't waffle, You need to get out of that $$$$$$$$$$ schmozzle as no one else will do it for you and look to a sane future for yourselves. Your kids don't need money, your grandkids don't need money but you desperately do. Protect it with your life and don't give it away as you will need every penny.
haha, of course I'm not talking pooping rights! (Nessie might argue) I agree, razz. I had a bit of an "aha" the other day when BIL was b**ching about MAYBE having to draw down his $5,000 401K so he could go on vacation to Las Vegas. I don't know why it took so long, but I suddenly recalled how, for HIS BENEFIT and HIS MOTHER'S benefit I wound up turning my 75k 401k into a 0 balance. I still haven't recovered.
I think I've finally gotten it--my need to look after myself, that is.
IshbelRobertson
3-19-17, 6:00pm
Haaaaa. A lightbulb moment, Catherine. Well done!
Good for you Catherine- stick to your plan- and I hope the house sale goes through. BIL will survive or not. Not your circus.
Teacher Terry
3-19-17, 6:24pm
So happy for you! I can't believe in his situation that he is even thinking of taking a vacation. Eye opener for sure.
Congratulations! This is definitely good news! I hope everything works out and the sale goes through.
Hooray! Fingers crossed for a speedy closing--that is great news!
iris lilies
3-19-17, 11:27pm
Good news, close that deal.
ToomuchStuff
3-20-17, 1:58am
haha, of course I'm not talking pooping rights! (Nessie might argue) I agree, razz. I had a bit of an "aha" the other day when BIL was b**ching about MAYBE having to draw down his $5,000 401K so he could go on vacation to Las Vegas. I don't know why it took so long, but I suddenly recalled how, for HIS BENEFIT and HIS MOTHER'S benefit I wound up turning my 75k 401k into a 0 balance. I still haven't recovered.
I think I've finally gotten it--my need to look after myself, that is.
I don't know, a one way bus ticket/plane fare to Vegas, might be a pretty cheap way to get rid of him.:laff:
I love that short closing. Maybe DH can suggest that BIL move out May 1, getting his new apartment lined up before then.
Oh, well. That honeymoon period is over. The offer still stands and it is moving into Attorney Review. We got a very good offer--they came very close to meeting the price we hoped for, and they want to close fast.
So what's the problem? The two owners: DH and BIL. Our agent came over last night to have us sign the contract, and all of a sudden it seemed like this offer was the worst thing in the world--both DH and BIL had the oddest reactions to so many things.
1) DH is reading every single word in the contract and picking apart things that aren't even relevant. "Like why are the laws in NJ written this way? They're stupid!" In NJ the attorneys have 3 days to act on a signed contract, and they routinely reject the contract at hand so that they can work out the details. DH couldn't wrap his mind around that. Our agent had the patience of a saint as she tried to explain that it was OK for him to sign the contract because that would open the door for the discussion with the attorney.
2) DH was hell-bent on NO negotiation. The washer and dryer was in the contract as being part of the purchase. He wouldn't have it. He feels we should withhold the W/D and use it as a negotiation lever in case something comes up in the inspection report. Like, will the buyers REALLY give up on a request that we upgrade aluminum wiring if we offer them a 20 year old washer/dryer??
3) Our agent was trying to give a heads up as to what MIGHT come up in the inspection, and in her estimated closing cost she high-balled a $3000 amount to cover a couple of possible things that might be brought up. It was WORST CASE SCENARIO FIGURE. But both DH and BIL went nuts. BIL went on a rampage saying BUT WHAT IF I DON'T HAVE 3000?? I reminded him that he and Jim are getting a check for $337,000. He should be able to cover it with that.
Later DH told me that BIL doesn't want to talk to me about money anymore because "I don't understand." He's right--I really don't understand how clueless he can be, and how paranoid and anxious about this very easy and fruitful sale. HE'S the one that wants to move fast! What does he expect? That the buyers are going to rip him off and steal his inheritance? I don't get it.
DH feels that because the house sold quickly, maybe there are better fish in the sea. This is exactly the thinking that got us in HUGE financial trouble when we tried to sell his mother's house at the cusp of the housing crisis.
Now it was midnight and you could see our agent was clearly flummoxed and she told both of them. She said, "I thought we were going to be celebrating tonight. Help me understand why you're so upset."
I think emotions are playing a huge part. This is a big transition for BIL, and it's the last remaining asset of their mothers they have. They are driven by fear of "getting screwed", but that fear is so irrational. Unfortunately you can't reason with irrational fears. So I just have to let it take its course.
such a bummer. We are so lucky to be getting that price for this house in this neighborhood, and they are like the fox and grapes, ready to drop those grapes right into the water chasing their illusions that a buyer is going to just plop $400,000 in their lap.
iris lilies
3-24-17, 6:13pm
I wish I could stomp in there and knock their heads together for you.
You are right on point about the emotions. Rationality goes out the window. Sorry you have to deal with this.
iris lilies
3-24-17, 6:19pm
In my opinion, the thing you have which is a nicely presented new-on-the-market house with an offer close to your asking price is the best deal you will likely get. Do not under estimate the power of this house being new on the market, it is a huge selling point.
As housing stock on the market ages, it becomes used goods. Real estate agents think there something wrong with it and the new items on the market are more attractive and become the properties most shown.
take the damn offer.
I wish I could stomp in there and knock their heads together for you.
Me too. Good God.
Catherine, it is your DH that needs to look at this more rationally. BIL won't have a leg to stand on if DH gets it together.
You put yourself in huge debt to help his mother. Now it is their turn to get you out of it. It really is as simple as that. It is your, you and your DH's, future that is at stake. Give him some reality scenarios that we have shared with you to help him understand your deep concern and your reasons. Walk away and get your emotions under control, if you can which will be so difficult as I fully understand. Then came back to your DH. BIL not wanting to talk to you about money is one more of his manipulative attempts to control your DH, IMHO.
Catherine, it is your DH that needs to look at this more rationally. BIL won't have a leg to stand on if DH gets it together.
You put yourself in huge debt to help his mother. Now it is their turn to get you out of it. It really is as simple as that. It is your, you and your DH's, future that is at stake. Give him some reality scenarios that we have shared with you to help him understand your deep concern and your reasons. Walk away and get your emotions under control, if you can which will be so difficult as I fully understand. Then came back to your DH. BIL not wanting to talk to you about money is one more of his manipulative attempts to control your DH, IMHO.
What razz said.
I wish I could stomp in there and knock their heads together for you.
I have tons of frequent flier miles I could give you--and I'll throw in a hotel room in New York.
:help:
Thanks for the support, all. I guess it's weird, because BIL was so thrilled and anxious to seal this deal, and what happened?? As for DH, he's suspicious of the buyers (they're both lawyers); he's suspicious of the fact that the buying and listing agents are out of the same real estate office (they're colluding to just get the house off the market and collect the money) and he's suspicious of the attorney (she won't look out for his best interest bc our real estate agent recommended her). It's all SO bizarre.
Razz, thanks for the advice; IL, I'm going to use the "new on the market shine" thing.
Is it too late to bury St. Joseph? :help:
In my opinion, the thing you have which is a nicely presented new-on-the-market house with an offer close to your asking price is the best deal you will likely get. Do not under estimate the power of this house being new on the market, it is a huge selling point.
As housing stock on the market ages, it becomes used goods. Real estate agents think there something wrong with it and the new items on the market are more attractive and become the properties most shown.
take the damn offer.
For sure this aging thing is real. We once bought a house for $75,000 under the original asking price. It was likely priced about $25,000 high to start off, then sat on the market a long time as a result. It had dropped by 35000 or so by the time we looked at it for the second time, and they took a moderate but not full-price offer.
You may tell them this cautionary tale with whatever embellishments you would like to add.
IshbelRobertson
3-24-17, 8:14pm
Knock their heads together! They are total NUMPTIES,
They have seller's remorse, which is really common. There's an old real estate saying, First offer, best offer. I think it's true.
With your DH, I'd start talking about putting your house on the market and moving on to Vermont! Show him pictures of great houses, like these
2018 Colchester point road, Colchester
21 Pines road n st albans
and my favorite:
306 Montcalm road, Milton
Tell him you really need to retire that debt to move on with your life. Maybe focusing on the future will help.
ToomuchStuff
3-25-17, 1:40am
Emotion is unreasonable.
The closest thing I could think of to do is possibly talk to your own attorney, then sit him down and show him the financials. But until they can view it in a non emotional state, you just won't get them to reason.
BTW. Jane is right, bury St. Joseph! Works every time.
rosarugosa
3-25-17, 6:59am
BTW. Jane is right, bury St. Joseph! Works every time.
But they got a good offer on the house, so I think they need to bury DBIL!
Just kidding - kinda :)
But they got a good offer on the house, so I think they need to bury DBIL!
Just kidding - kinda :)
Oh, Rosa, that is funny!
Naw, the reason you bury St. Joseph is because he is the patron saint of finding homes for people--think of him wandering around with Mary looking for a place for her to give birth! He is also the one you pray to for a peaceful, good death. Since what Catherine needs is for the guys to come to peace with the situation and the loss of their mom, and giving up the house, which is probably really hard given how it represents the mom, I think St. Joseph would be a very good saint to involve in the process at this point.
Anyway, that is my take on the situation. Our old hardware store in Illinois used to sell the statues right up by the cash register. I have also used the St. Joseph from my Christmas manger scene. You can buy the on Amazon, and probably get 2 day delivery.
I think the guys are just having a very hard time with processing the loss of the house as representing mom. It doesn't help that it's right next door, staring you in the face every day. That is why I would sell my house, too, if I were Catherine, because I think it would be too hard to look at MIL's house all the time. I think everybody could use a new start.
But they got a good offer on the house, so I think they need to bury DBIL!
Just kidding - kinda :)
That's great, rosa! (Love a little black humor to start the weekend off right!)
Jane/Tybee, I went to 12 years of Catholic school and never heard of burying St. Joseph! After reading Jane's post, I googled it! Very interesting. If I had known, I would have littered my MIL's NY house with dozens of St. Joseph potholes in the backyard to help with THAT sale back in 2008!
Tybee, thanks for those pictures.. I know--VT is definitely calling my name. I liked the first one in Colchester. It's very close to Burlington, and I liked the "vibe"--reminded me a little of a miniature version of my Aunt's house with the stone fireplace and exposed ceiling.
St. Albans has some nice homes for sale, but there are two potential problems with that town: heroin and green algae.
I am planning a reconnaissance trip to meet with my VT agent so she can drive me around the Champlain towns. I'm looking for a place that has some sense of community, and it's hard to see that in a picture.
Teacher Terry
3-25-17, 1:09pm
Catherine so sorry you are having to deal with all of that craziness.
Oh my word. If those two men ruin this deal i'd consider running off by myself.
iris lilies
4-9-17, 1:34pm
haha, of course I'm not talking pooping rights! (Nessie might argue) I agree, razz. I had a bit of an "aha" the other day when BIL was b**ching about MAYBE having to draw down his $5,000 401K so he could go on vacation to Las Vegas. I don't know why it took so long, but I suddenly recalled how, for HIS BENEFIT and HIS MOTHER'S benefit I wound up turning my 75k 401k into a 0 balance. I still haven't recovered.
I think I've finally gotten it--my need to look after myself, that is.
Hey, this will make you feel better:I have lost $30,000 in the past ten years through my own mismanagement and just doing what I wanted to do rather than the prudent thing. So you are not alone!
Hey, this will make you feel better:I have lost $30,000 in the past ten years through my own mismanagement and just doing what I wanted to do rather than the prudent thing. So you are not alone!
Thank, IL. Yeah, I guess some money running through the sieve is inevitable, but it's frustrating.
Anyway, we're out of attorney review!! So we can now look forward to the inspection report and appraisal.
T
Anyway, we're out of attorney review!! So we can now look forward to the inspection report and appraisal.
Sounds like positive progress. Wishing you all success in finding solutions to the challenges.
Fingers crossed. This is going to free up so much energy, you won't believe the changes that follow!
ToomuchStuff
4-28-17, 9:48am
Bump to the top
Do you close today?
catherine
4-28-17, 11:16am
Thanks for asking!!
Well....
We got SO close and then they had the house inspected. There are a few things that we suspected might come up (old furnace, aluminum wiring, an uneven sidewalk) but they said that based on the report, they wanted $20k. We said no way, but we'd replace the electrical panel and buy them a new furnace (that would have been about 7000.)
They rejected our counteroffer out of hand and cancelled the deal.
What a bummer. Back to the drawing board, but we are going to replace the panel, because it's original and it sends a red flag to buyers.
Thanks for asking!!
Well....
We got SO close and then they had the house inspected. There are a few things that we suspected might come up (old furnace, aluminum wiring, an uneven sidewalk) but they said that based on the report, they wanted $20k. We said no way, but we'd replace the electrical panel and buy them a new furnace (that would have been about 7000.)
They rejected our counteroffer out of hand and cancelled the deal.
What a bummer. Back to the drawing board, but we are going to replace the panel, because it's original and it sends a red flag to buyers.
I am so sorry to hear that, but they sound kind of greedy, and it's a seller's market, so soldier on.
I don't now much about aluminium wiring--is it common in your neighborhood, and is it a deal killer? What has to be replaced?
Does your agent say you should adjust price with this new info? It sounds like they grabbed it because it's a great house but then did not want to work with you to come to a solution--I know they were an early offer, and I know you will get many more offers now that spring is here.
At least they have done your marketing for you, and now you know what to think about, as to whether you want to do anything about the issues. On their dime, too!
Update to add that I have googled aluminum wiring and I guess it can be a deal breaker due to insurance issues. Were they going to give 20k less so that they could rewire the house , get a new furnace, and fix the sidewalk? Hmm. I know you don't want to do all that.
Selling a house is so much harder than buying one, sigh.
ToomuchStuff
4-29-17, 12:48am
Aluminum wiring, is a cluster.
They use it outside, from the meter to the electrical box and they built houses with it inside from sometime in the 50's, through sometime in the 60's. It has a problem of arcing where it meets copper,brass, other metals used in electrical. It has to be pigtailed now, to copper wiring, with a purple wirenut, with dielectric gel to keep the air out to slow oxidizing. Special outlets and switches are required, and if you have a finished basement, it will be a cluster to tear it all out (every last stinking bit) and replace it.
Deal killer depends on the person as well as how much it has been messed with. (i'd much rather the original panel, then find one that currently works with that old wiring)
I am in the rip it out category, after knowing of a few houses that burned, due to arcing, because the homeowner did something at some point, without knowing what to do.
Aluminum wiring arcs because the aluminum expands and contracts as it heats up, eventually causing connectors to loosen. If it's pigtailed properly at all outlets and switches it shouldn't be a problem.
It became an issue in the mid 70's when the Beverly Hills Supper Club in Northern Kentucky burned to the ground during an event, killing 165 people.
catherine
4-29-17, 10:00am
We are thinking of pig tailing, which will cost $3000, but if we only replace the panel and outlets we'll spend $1600. I think we're going to leave it up to the new buyers to pigtail if they want to. DH called the township and there are no code violations associated with having aluminum wiring.
On other note, I hardly ever vent about DH, but he just pushed my buttons again.. He was talking about how if we reduce the price $5k, "that's a lot of money," leading me to believe that his "penny-wise, pound-foolish" mentality may continue to work against us. So I told him that it costs us $2500/month to carry the house, and he said, "no, it's $950." And I said, "but I am paying $1500 in debt payments that will be wiped away as soon as we sell the house."
And he could NOT understand that as a family, we suffer if we string out the house sale to the tune of almost $3000 a month, which wipes out his $5k in less than 2 months. He truly did not understand. He kept saying, "the house is separate from the debt" and I kept saying, "How can you say that when we are IN debt because of the house, and we can get OUT of the debt because of the house?"
But he still doesn't get it. Argghhh....is it because I don't make him go through the budget and pay bills with me every month, that he's so up there in LaLa Land, out of touch with our financial reality??
I can't WAIT till this albatross is off our neck!
We are thinking of pig tailing, which will cost $3000, but if we only replace the panel and outlets we'll spend $1600. I think we're going to leave it up to the new buyers to pigtail if they want to. DH called the township and there are no code violations associated with having aluminum wiring.
On other note, I hardly ever vent about DH, but he just pushed my buttons again.. He was talking about how if we reduce the price $5k, "that's a lot of money," leading me to believe that his "penny-wise, pound-foolish" mentality may continue to work against us. So I told him that it costs us $2500/month to carry the house, and he said, "no, it's $950." And I said, "but I am paying $1500 in debt payments that will be wiped away as soon as we sell the house."
And he could NOT understand that as a family, we suffer if we string out the house sale to the tune of almost $3000 a month, which wipes out his $5k in less than 2 months. He truly did not understand. He kept saying, "the house is separate from the debt" and I kept saying, "How can you say that when we are IN debt because of the house, and we can get OUT of the debt because of the house?"
But he still doesn't get it. Argghhh....is it because I don't make him go through the budget and pay bills with me every month, that he's so up there in LaLa Land, out of touch with our financial reality??
I can't WAIT till this albatross is off our neck!
Maybe make him watch one of those flipper shows where they show the amounts up on the screen and the flipper is racing to get stuff done so that don't have to make more mortgage payments--every month that goes by and you are carrying that house--that is where their business succeeds or fails. That carrying cost is very, very real, and can sink you if you don't get on top of it. I think that is why Dave Ramsey is always telling everyone to sell their rental property to get out of debt. . .
I am sorry this deal fell through, it must be so frustrating.
In late-breaking news, it seems that my son and DIL are seriously interested in buying the house!
On Easter, they were over, and DIL had never been inside, so I said, "you better go in and take a look because this will be your last chance." She stepped in and said, "Oh, wow, I didn't know it was going to be this nice!"
Fast forward two weeks.. she brings GS to the park that's adjacent to our house, and he says "I like this park!!" and we go looking for fish, ducks and turtles in the creek. Grandson #2 was due to arrive yesterday, but will probably be born this week or next.
Then the day before yesterday I get a text message that they are seriously interested in buying. They are renting a really nice home now, and their lease is up June 15th.
My mind is spinning..
iris lilies
5-2-17, 8:56am
Will they qualify for a mortgage?
DO NOT get all squirrelly and deviate from your expected price range to give them a gift. Do NOT. I mean it.
And I suppose this would change your plan to sell your current house with its ridiculous, out of control New Jersey taxes. Getting out from under that would be a very good move. Did you say your taxes are about $12,000 annually?
As a grandmother, for me, this would be the most like winning the lottery! We are trying to move to New England to be closer to our grandchildren. I so get why this would be wonderful!
On a side note, the house across the street from us sold, and then they got her parents to buy the house next to us! It is so nice for all of them--she said, "I want to be an involved grandmother" and they all seem really happy. It is seriously cool.
Will they qualify for a mortgage?
DO NOT get all squirrelly and deviate from your expected price range to give them a gift. Do NOT. I mean it.
And I suppose this would change your plan to sell your current house with its ridiculous, out of control New Jersey taxes. Getting out from under that would be a very good move. Did you say your taxes are about $12,000 annually?
I whole heartedly agree with IL- do not let them mess up your plans for economic freedom. Sadly many children will and do take advantage. You've had the BIL- don't need more of that .
I know--to both IL and Tybee's points, that's why my head is spinning!
While my son is adamant that this is a win-win for both of us, there will be some financial implications. To your point, IL, it will probably keep us tied to our house in NJ for a few years. And I appreciate your chiding me to not "get all squirrelly"--LOL.
But it is a dream to be able to be such a involved grandparent, to your point, Tybee.
He will be able to get a mortgage, and I would plan on charging him fair market value. The other big BUT is, we may co-own for a couple of years, with the expectation that he would buy us out at that point.
I certainly can't afford to gift him a house or a down payment for a house or anything like that, if for no other reason what I would do for one I'd have to do for the others, and that clearly is out of the question. So it's really a question of, do we want to gift him a couple of years to buy the house outright? He would buy out BIL and give us a good chunk. It defers my own goals and aspirations for a short time, but would it be worth it to have my family right next door!
nwsef, I hear you, but my kids have been a strong support, and they never ask me for anything. They haven't shown themselves to be "takers" so far.
Head still spinning..
Teacher Terry
5-2-17, 11:19am
When my kids were little we bought the house next door to my parents and it was awesome. My Dad had a big stroke young (59) and I was able to help my Mom and in return she would watch the boys. AFter school the kids would go right to her house for snacks and fun even if I was home. My husband also loved it as we could spend time together and when he wanted to go home he did. I have a lot of good memories of those 14 years as do my sons.
iris lilies
5-2-17, 11:20am
Your son can get a mortgage? Then--cool! Go for it, your son is right that IS a win -win--you unload the house, you get money to retire your debt, you have son and family next door. If that means that you stay put in your exisitng house for a while, well, ok.
I cant understand what you mean about co-owning. You cannot mean that about the MIL house. If you mean that, catherine, sweetie--I despair for you.
ps I spent ages 5 to 18 with my grandparents either in the back yard or across the alley. That is all fine.
Your son can get a mortgage? Then--cool! Go for it, your son is right that IS a win -win--you unload the house, you get money to retire your debt, you have son and family next door. If that means that you stay put in your exisitng house for a while, well, ok.
I cant understand what you mean about co-owning. You cannot mean that about the MIL house. If you mean that, catherine, sweetie--I despair for you.
ps I spent ages 5 to 18 with my grandparents either in the back yard or across the alley. That is all fine.
Don't despair yet! I'm in a low emotional point at the moment, with more subterranean anger than I usually feel, most likely because in the past 4 months I've executed, by myself, $100k worth of business. I'm Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. (Emphasis on the Tired). So I'm hoping to make the anger work for me, and enable me to put my needs first, with no guilt. I am doing serious reflection on this situation. "Co-owning" would not be the give-away that BIL had--my son would pay all the bills/taxes/maintenance etc. and give us a chunk of money, and then completely buy us out in a set period of time--I imagine 3-5 years. He just got a very good job working as an attorney in renewable energy for the State, and he's becoming a regional expert. We expect he has a good career ahead of him.
ETA: I know it seems bizarre that I'm even thinking of this, but I wouldn't be living in the house I've lived in happily for 31 years if my MIL, (who was a clerk in Macy's from the time she was prematurely widowed) hadn't gifted us $70k of her mother's inheritance TO HER for us to buy this house. When we had rough times, she was ALWAYS there to back us up. Maybe that was enabling, but she did it, and I will be forever grateful. She had a small pension, and she lived frugally and sensibly and met all her needs on her SS and pension. When she died she had about $200k in the bank. She practiced "financial flow" among family members, and I don't think that's a bad thing. It's bad when it's only one way, but I don't think it was in this case, which was one reason we took on the financial risk to move her down here. Yes it bit us in the butt, but if the recession hadn't happened, we'd all be a lot richer. Who knew?
iris lilies
5-2-17, 11:55am
If
Don't despair yet! I'm in a low emotional point at the moment, with more subterranean anger than I usually feel, most likely because in the past 4 months I've executed, by myself, $100k worth of business. I'm Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. (Emphasis on the Tired). So I'm hoping to make the anger work for me, and enable me to put my needs first, with no guilt. I am doing serious reflection on this situation. "Co-owning" would not be the give-away that BIL had--my son would pay all the bills/taxes/maintenance etc. and give us a chunk of money, and then completely buy us out in a set period of time--I imagine 3-5 years. He just got a very good job working as an attorney in renewable energy for the State, and he's becoming a regional expert. We expect he has a good career ahead of him.
Then, he cannot get a mortgage now apparently. (?) He is making the co-owning proposal you outlined and calling it "win-win?"
Oy vey.
We all can play a game of "what can go wrong" with the scenario you lay out. I'll start:
1) son looses job, cant pay catherine, financial woes ensue
2) real estate market tanks, catherine has hard time holding son to buy-out agreed upon price because son would be upside down, she caves, more financial woes ensue
3) DIL dumps son to go with a new squeeze, wants her share of house money, financial woes ensue
Those are the scenarios that leap to my mind immediately, other people can come up with alternates.
I need razz here for backup!
ToomuchStuff
5-2-17, 12:08pm
I agree with IL. He either qualifies for the mortgage, buys BOTH parties out of the house, or doesn't get the house (as he would be buying more then he could financially handle, aka taking example from parents). If he gets the house the other way, then your stuck in the same situation, with your b-i-l probably wanting to stay bouncing between you two.
If you let him buy your b-i-l out, then how would you even go about it? Just transfer your b-i-l's name to his, or provide him with a deed, which gives him control of the house, with an unsecured debt to you? (BAD IDEA, BAD IDEA, BAD IDEA, BAD IDEA)
You need to think with your head on this, and realize being so close to family, which owes you a lot of money and your in debt on, will just eventually turn your stomach to deal with them.
If
Then, he cannot get a mortgage now apparently. (?)
He could get a $200k mortgage on his own. He would pay it to the bank, like any mortgage.
But I appreciate your "worst case scenarios." I'll definitely keep them in mind. My head knows you are right. Bad thing is, my heart usually wins.
iris lilies
5-2-17, 12:19pm
He could get a $200k mortgage on his own. He would pay it to the bank, like any mortgage.
But I appreciate your "worst case scenarios." I'll definitely keep them in mind. My head knows you are right. Bad thing is, my heart usually wins.
catherine, your son cannot afford this house. I am sorry he cannot complete your dream.
catherine, your son cannot afford this house. I am sorry he cannot complete your dream.
I have a lot of dreams, so if this one falls through, I'm sure another will take its place. ;).
Thanks for the sage advice
iris lilies
5-2-17, 12:30pm
I have a lot of dreams, so if this one falls through, I'm sure another will take its place. ;).
Thanks for the sage advice
Dude! i KNOW you have lots of dreams! It will all be ok.
Dream that you are out of debt, have a few hundred Thousand $k for old age, and are STILL crankin' out $100,000 of quarterly business! Then you can give son and DIL money to move next to you. It can be done, just in the right order of events.
Ok, I will stop for a bit, gotta go weed while the sun is out.
I completely forgot that BIL owns half the house. That complicates things for sure, since he needs a place to live and probably needs that income to live off of in retirement.
This is really complicated, with more than one owner of the house, as there are then 3 parties to the deal. Hhm. Not sure what to think, now that I remembered that part of the equation.
My family tends to work like you describe, with each generation helping out the one that follows, like your MIL did for you guys. And it definitely goes both ways. I am very comfortable with that dynamic, and I did give my kids downpayments for their houses, and for me, it was an investment in my grandchildren's futures. Makes me very happy, and feels right.
But I so forgot that BIL owns half the house.
Maybe your anger is there to guide you in reaching a good decision?
If
Then, he cannot get a mortgage now apparently. (?) He is making the co-owning proposal you outlined and calling it "win-win?"
Oy vey.
We all can play a game of "what can go wrong" with the scenario you lay out. I'll start:
1) son looses job, cant pay catherine, financial woes ensue
2) real estate market tanks, catherine has hard time holding son to buy-out agreed upon price because son would be upside down, she caves, more financial woes ensue
3) DIL dumps son to go with a new squeeze, wants her share of house money, financial woes ensue
Those are the scenarios that leap to my mind immediately, other people can come up with alternates.
I need razz here for backup!
IL, I'm with you. I had to run without responding earlier because I needed to,get to the office for s conference call that got cancelled.
Catherine, The co-owning strikes me as a huge red flag, for all the scenarios IL pointed out. If you really want your son there I'd recommend becoming his formal landlord with a formal lease agreement for market priced rent. And then re-evaluate in 2-3 years. the downside s are obvious. You take the risk of a tanking real estate market. You take the risk of having to be the one to evict your son if he gets behind on rent. Or you take the risk of him becoming BiL v 2.0 if he loses his job. (While one would hope that a renewable energy attorney has a solid future, one would also hope that one didn't have an idiot president that thinks dinosaurs are a better energy future than sunshine. But that's where we are.)
If
Then, he cannot get a mortgage now apparently. (?) He is making the co-owning proposal you outlined and calling it "win-win?"
Oy vey.
We all can play a game of "what can go wrong" with the scenario you lay out. I'll start:
1) son looses job, cant pay catherine, financial woes ensue
2) real estate market tanks, catherine has hard time holding son to buy-out agreed upon price because son would be upside down, she caves, more financial woes ensue
3) DIL dumps son to go with a new squeeze, wants her share of house money, financial woes ensue
Those are the scenarios that leap to my mind immediately, other people can come up with alternates.
I need razz here for backup!
OK, IL;)
Catherine, you haven't told us about DBIL as yet. Is he part of your responsibility still? A continuing liability? Or is that one expense that will disappear from your life?
Can you make the sale terms in writing as part of the purchase that will address IL's concerns? If it is to belong to both DS and DIL, they will both be held accountable for following through. Will you share the terms with the other kids so that they can help hold their siblings accountable, the house price fair and avoid hard feelings later on?
By selling them the house, are you giving up the idea of moving to a cheaper place of your dreams?
If they buy and you stay and he gets transferred elsewhere for a better job, what will the long-term impact be on you?
(FWIW, I deliberately chose my future after my DH passed away and gave my children the freedom to go wherever they wanted knowing that we were all free to do so and it was very wise in retrospect. DD2 and her DH did move.)
It is time to protect yourself, Catherine and you have the smarts to do so. I have this niggling sense that DS and DIL were feeling pressure (not from you) to consider making the purchase -why? If this is true, it is the wrong motive for them.
Teacher Terry
5-2-17, 1:15pm
Catherine, sadly it appears that you can not afford to help your son. I agree with IL that you need to sell both homes. I totally forgot about your property taxes being 12k/year. Ugh! I know you are around my age (62) and realistically how much longer can you work f.t? Yes it could be 10 more years but honestly it may not. Do you want to keep working until your health fails and then you never had any time to do the other things in life? Also if your work is stressful this definitely takes a negative toll on your health. When I semi-retired at 58 my health got much better. At this time in your life you need to put yourself first. If you don;t youwill be a burden to your kids and I don't think anyone wants that. When I read the Mr MM forum many boomer parents are a burden to their children. Hugs:))
So.. in answer to some questions..
BIL would be paid in full and give up rights to the house. In my mind, what he should do is find a cheap condo in FL and find a golf course to work at. He could buy a condo outright, from the prices I've checked out, and still have money left over to pay off debt and buy a cheap car in cash. So he's out of the picture at that point (unless we have to evict him from our house :)
Our taxes aren't 12k, but they're not great: 8k.
I would DEFINITELY put everything in writing. I may be dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb.
Yes, I would have to put dreams of a cheaper, nicer place on the back burner. That is a big drawback.
The biggest drawback is not being able to shed these handcuffs of debt--being shackled for another 3-5 years.
I don't think DS felt pressure to buy at all. I truly think that they were smitten with the same dream I have of being next door, and, yes, this would be the most affordable entree into home ownership, if they can co-own and move toward total ownership.
There are many pros and cons, I heartily admit. None the least of which.. what if they buy here and they don't like it? Then I'd feel almost responsible for their happiness.
There are many pros and cons, I heartily admit. None the least of which.. what if they buy here and they don't like it? Then I'd feel almost responsible for their happiness.
Tell them that. I don't think you should feel responsible for anyone's happiness but your own. But I can sure see why this would be worrisome.
ETA: I did not see this quote the first time through:
"The biggest drawback is not being able to shed these handcuffs of debt--being shackled for another 3-5 years."
If I felt that way, that I was shackled with handcuffs of debt, I would do everything possible to get out of that situation. So in my case, I would say I would not do it, because getting out of debt is so important to my mental health. But that is something only the individual can decide--how she feels about debt. But these words do not sound happy and okay with debt, so that's something to consider.
Catherine, have you ever thought of buying a duplex in VT? A smaller, cheaper place AND you'd be able to have family next door.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.