Accepting people for what they are... [Archive]

Ultralight

3-21-17, 7:10pm

Shocker!

I have had a hard time my whole life with accepting people for who they are. Sometimes I would try to change them (and even succeeded in a number of attempts). Other times I would just sign the person off as a lost cause. Other times I'd get on their case and drag them through the mud a bit.

But perhaps it is my descent into middle age or perhaps it is learning a thing or two over time; I happen to think I am learning to accept people for who they are.

I will confess that this does not feel good. It makes me feel distant from most people, like I am observing them from outside their fish bowl.

I find myself saying things like:
"They're just very provincial" or "Most people are willfully ignorant" or "This person and I differ; they are probably wrong; but nonetheless we differ" or "This person is like a rat in a cage" or "this person is like a hamster on a wheel" and so forth.

I hold my tongue now and merely think what I am thinking rather than say it. This is maybe my emotional reaction to a world that is incomprehensible to me and also out of my control.

Tammy

3-21-17, 7:12pm

It's the serenity prayer - "accepting what I can not change"

Ultralight

3-21-17, 7:14pm

It's the serenity prayer - "accepting what I can not change" Ha! Yeah. I can actually appreciate much of the sentiment of that prayer.

Chicken lady

3-21-17, 7:53pm

I'm not sure you're accepting them for who they are. I think it might make you feel distant because you are accepting that they are who they are, and then writing them off.

Alan

3-21-17, 8:10pm

bae

3-21-17, 8:34pm

UA, if you continue on your path to conservatism, you'll need to realize that if you want people to accept you for who you are, you have to do the same.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder726/500x/44872726.jpg

jp1

3-21-17, 9:32pm

bae

3-21-17, 10:21pm

If he turns into Ayn Rand I may have to just write him off...

I don't get the sense that he hates women enough to become Rand.

jp1

3-21-17, 10:25pm

True. If he becomes Ron Paul i'd probably be okay with the change.

iris lilies

3-22-17, 12:05am

True. If he becomes Ron Paul i'd probably be okay with the change.If he becomes Rand Paul I'll marry him.

ToomuchStuff

3-22-17, 2:20am

So your tired of being like your father in that regards?

rosarugosa

3-22-17, 4:44am

I think accepting people as they are is one of my personal strengths. I like almost everyone, because there are likable aspects to most people and I am able to focus more on those than the less likable aspects. I do think this makes for a happier life, since we can't really change other people, and we want others to accept us as we are.

Ultralight

3-22-17, 6:51am

UA, if you continue on your path to conservatism, you'll need to realize that if you want people to accept you for who you are, you have to do the same.

I'm enjoying watching your journey and rooting for you as you get closer to home.

This was a funny post, for sure. While I have experienced the very bizarre phenomenon of having to explain that I "lean right on about three issues or so" I will say I doubt I'd ever be a Republican.

The three issues are:
1. I support the 2nd amendment
2. I support free speech (which has, in some crazy way, become a conservative position)
3. I think fathers are a valuable part of society

Now, when I explain the above to SJWs I get eye-rolls and other typical reactions. haha

But look, I am a civil libertarian and I ideologically support things like universal healthcare, a more progressive tax structure, and more equitable funding of public schools. I am also an environmentalist. So still quite liberal. ;)

Ultralight

3-22-17, 6:51am

If he turns into Ayn Rand I may have to just write him off... Please do!

Ultralight

3-22-17, 6:53am

I don't get the sense that he hates women enough to become Rand. I like women, some I have loved.

flowerseverywhere

3-22-17, 6:53am

UA, if you continue on your path to conservatism, you'll need to realize that if you want people to accept you for who you are, you have to do the same.

I'm enjoying watching your journey and rooting for you as you get closer to home.

this is interesting coming from you, because reading your posts I would not have labeled you as being particularly accepting of others views. Just goes to show how little you know about someone from reading posts on the internet.

Ultralight

3-22-17, 6:57am

I'm not sure you're accepting them for who they are. I think it might make you feel distant because you are accepting that they are who they are, and then writing them off. Perhaps... But I think that accepting them for who he or she is (someone who is probably wrong about a lot of things or at least profoundly different than me) means also I am accepting that I will never be truly close to them. And this means the gap between us never closes. We stay distant. But they are accepted.

Alan

3-22-17, 7:51am

Just goes to show how little you know about someone from reading posts on the internet.That's true. Stereotypes are misleading.

this is interesting coming from you, because reading your posts I would not have labeled you as being particularly accepting of others views. I can see how confusing that might be for people who believe that anyone having an alternate view somehow means they're not accepting of yours. It helps to remember that diversity of thought is a good thing.

catherine

3-22-17, 7:53am

Perhaps... But I think that accepting them for who he or she is (someone who is probably wrong about a lot of things or at least profoundly different than me) means also I am accepting that I will never be truly close to them. And this means the gap between us never closes. We stay distant. But they are accepted.

So, if you can't take them on as a project, they're worthless to you? You're either on a mission to change them or they're "dead to you" (a TV show saying--Kevin O'Leary says it: If he offers an entrepreneur a deal and they decline he typically says, "Then you're dead to me.")

My AH tends to be like you. He recently had an AHA moment when he realized, "If someone is an a****e don't get mad, just enjoy them for being the biggest a****es they can be!" That sounds a little like your sentiment. It's an acceptance, but it doesn't necessarily forge relationships. He tends to think a lot of people are a****es. But maybe that's a step in the right direction.

Thich Nhat Hanh suggests trying to understand and appreciate what made people think the way they think and do the things they do. Everyone has their own life experience and "store consciousness" that made them grow to be the people they are, but we all started as cute little blank slates more or less. If you can try to discover the people they were before their upbringing, schools of hard knocks, and society got to them, you might find more common ground.

And you always have the opportunity learn something from anyone--even a****es.

Chicken lady

3-22-17, 7:53am

I think you are using "accepted" in "not trying to change them" instead of "accepted" in "this is ok."

my father opposes government social welfare but this is ok because he simply has different beliefs about how the problems it addresses should be solved. And he walks his talk. I think he is wrong because his approach is not scalable, but I do not think he is evil and I love him. I accept him as he is and we are close.

my neighbor opposes social welfare because other people are lazy and selfish and those who are not like him are "taking" from those who are like him. He doesn't even realize how much of his life my children are paying for through the government, I accept that I will never change him, and I avoid him because I don't need the negativity and arguements - live and let live.

LDAHL

3-22-17, 9:39am

UA, if you continue on your path to conservatism, you'll need to realize that if you want people to accept you for who you are, you have to do the same.

I'm enjoying watching your journey and rooting for you as you get closer to home.

Is there a difference between conservative and liberal views of human nature?

I would say that conservatives probably take a somewhat darker view of human nature. People need to be governed by law and hard-won custom, they aren't particularly changeable through education or propaganda, and should be allowed to compete with an acceptance of winners and losers as being inevitable. Rights are viewed in a negative sense as a scope of activity and thought that shouldn't be interfered with. The good in people and their institutions should be a source of gratitude. Fairness is a matter of process rather than outcome.

I think liberals view human nature more optimistically. Societies and attitudes can be engineered in positive ways, given the proper messaging. This means we may need to regulate speech for the public good. Compassion should overrule the strict application of law. Rights are viewed positively in the sense that they are duties to provide certain things through government intervention. Disparate outcomes are taken as evidence that processes require adjustment, so fairness is a matter of outcomes. True civic virtue requires resenting and attacking what is bad about our institutions rather than preserving what is good.

Zoe Girl

3-22-17, 10:05am

I guess I don't see the liberal/conservative part of this discussion. I think I am more liberal because I see people for who they are and know I am not going to change them, then I just need to decide what I can and cannot do about how they affect me and others. There are times I am in groups that are very different than me, like all 7 years in California, and I imagine that I am a cultural anthropologist watching how they work. UA it still sounds very judgy in the way you stated things. I was around a lot of conservative Christians those Cali years which was a huge culture shock and took some work. But I didn't say to myself 'oh they are that way because they are ignorant', I did sometimes tell them things directly that needed to be said but I know they had different experiences.

iris lilies

3-22-17, 11:10am

UL, I cant even understand your desire to change people. Why do you want that responsibility? Ugh, so hard!

I want to enjoy my life, and taking on the fixin' of others is just too mich work. No thanks! I am not their mother, haha.

LDAHL

3-22-17, 12:25pm

UL, I cant even understand your desire to change people. Why do you want that responsibility? Ugh, so hard!

I agree. I'm having enough trouble getting a dog to pee outdoors.

Teacher Terry

3-22-17, 2:56pm

People only change when the pain of staying the same is worse then the pain of changing. I am surprised that you ever tried to change anyone. Talk about setting yourself up to fail. SW is about accepting people for who they are. You don't have to like them but you have to meet people where they are at the moment. Therapy is never about giving advice but helping the person figure out the solution to the problem. So 10 people with the same problem will have 10 different solutions.

ApatheticNoMore

3-22-17, 3:33pm

I don't think being that most people are poor at judging what will make them happy etc. most people can even know what the pain of various things will be. And pretty soon you end up believing pain is the only thing that motivates people, but it's not.

Maybe UL is surprised that other people are not converted instantly to whatever he thinks is how they should live their lives. But frankly why should they be? They evaluate as best they know how to live their own lives, maybe at best they could try more things if they don't (find out they actually love salad or something). I get wanting to change people in a relationship if that's the drift, there are a few reasons for this, mostly this is about getting one's own wants and needs met, but also in a relationship (and even friendships sometimes) one is encouraging, but encouraging isn't "trying to make someone else change" but rather just being supportive when they do things that are positive etc..

Mary B.

3-22-17, 3:38pm

I agree. I'm having enough trouble getting a dog to pee outdoors.

I do not think that my own experience in attempting to get people to change has ever been expressed so succinctly. Thanks, LDAHL.

flowerseverywhere

3-22-17, 11:19pm

That's true. Stereotypes are misleading.

I can see how confusing that might be for people who believe that anyone having an alternate view somehow means they're not accepting of yours. It helps to remember that diversity of thought is a good thing.

yet I have seen many arguments that you have been involved in involving healthcare, gun rights, police brutality and so on where I could say the same to you. I guess we all need to every day try to be humbler and open to alternative views.

iris lilies

3-22-17, 11:36pm

I do not think that my own experience in attempting to get people to change has ever been expressed so succinctly. Thanks, LDAHL.
I learned with a stubborn bulldog that while I can pick her up and haul her chubby butt outside, I cannot make her pee. She always won.

Alan

3-23-17, 7:47am

yet I have seen many arguments that you have been involved in involving healthcare, gun rights, police brutality and so on where I could say the same to you.
So, are you saying that debating, "arguing", or simply presenting an alternate viewpoint on any given subject equals non-acceptance of another person? Should I be concerned that you are practicing non-acceptance of me when you disagree? If so, I'm thinking we should just do away with the concept of a discussion forum and call ourselves a validation center.

Zoe Girl

3-23-17, 7:48am

I have had some deep thoughts on this topic actually. So when we get into the hot topics like guns I get accused of not wanting to listen to others because I run liberal. I honestly don't agree, I listened and learned from my ex-FIL about hunting and actually support it (still got bashed for being a vegetarian). I don't think the law needs to reflect my exact opinion or that people who disagree with me are bad people, however I stopped holding my breath that anyone from the other side would show compassion, curiosity, care, or anything about my negative experiences with guns.

From this, do I want to change people or do I want to be open to how they could change and we could all get to know each other better?

Ultralight

3-23-17, 7:49am

Growing up my parents more-or-less just let the cats and dogs do anything -- pee, poo, vom inside on carpet or bite me protecting some bone or chew toy when I simply walked past it.

They also let their dogs go without a leash and they had very little discipline or manners.

When I got Harlan I decided I was going to raise him right. I never hit him. I used positive reinforcement to train him along with the occasional spray of a water squirt bottle. He never needs more than a swift "No!" to stop doing something questionable in my presence or anyone's presence. I trained him to pee outside, poo outside, and believe it or not I also trained him to go outside when he needs to vom. He rarely barks.

Now, I am not saying he is perfect as he does not get along with most other dogs. He sheds too. He sometimes chews or shreds if he is alone too long or bored (but that is usually my fault for leaving him unattended at home). He also dislikes water and can be annoyingly aloof. But I accept these imperfections because they do not interfere with my life and because he is so good in so many other ways.

I cannot help but think there is a life lesson here.

Ultralight

3-23-17, 7:52am

So, are you saying that debating, "arguing", or simply presenting an alternate viewpoint on any given subject equals non-acceptance of another person? You don't interact with the ControLeft much do you?

Alan

3-23-17, 8:01am

You don't interact with the ControLeft much do you?Actually, I do, and enjoy doing so. I've been posting here for years haven't I?

Zoe Girl

3-23-17, 8:09am

I can agree or disagree with someone and still think they are an a**hole. One of the teachers in my tradition admits he was a total jerk for many years. I probably agreed with him on many things, wouldn't be the first time. Accepting that and opting out of talking to someone may look like I am disagreeing with your opinion, when in fact it may be I just don't like your personality.

Ultralight

3-23-17, 8:10am

Actually, I do, and enjoy doing so. I've been posting here for years haven't I? Take a couple classes at the nearest public university. I think it is free at your age. :devil:

Then you will get a real glimpse at how my beloved left wing is self-destructing.

Alan

3-23-17, 8:22am

Chicken lady

3-23-17, 9:02am

Ageist! ;)

Float On

3-23-17, 9:30am

My husband woke up this morning and the first thing he started talking about was complaining about someone and how he thinks they should change. I would of liked to of said "sometimes the only thing that can change is yourself" but I've been saying that 27 years and it obviously hasn't made a change in his way of thinking so I just stared blankly.

Chicken lady

3-23-17, 9:45am

Good job changing yourself float on!

ToomuchStuff

3-23-17, 11:37am

I've been singing that song for years.:+1:

Float On

3-23-17, 11:37am

Good job changing yourself float on!

Thank you for noticing! :treadmill:

flowerseverywhere

3-23-17, 8:22pm

So, are you saying that debating, "arguing", or simply presenting an alternate viewpoint on any given subject equals non-acceptance of another person? Should I be concerned that you are practicing non-acceptance of me when you disagree? If so, I'm thinking we should just do away with the concept of a discussion forum and call ourselves a validation center.

no, I think sometimes in an Internet forum you are getting a one dimensional view, void of inflection, tone, body language and so on. I am betting if you and I were speaking face to face I would see a different communication style than typing on a keyboard. To some extent we are all intolerant and frustrated with the limits of these new communication styles.
Funny that you mention people seeking self validation, because that is something that has really been happening. For instance if you are pro trump you are likely to watch Fox News, read Breitbart and get the Presidents tweets and so on. Likely a liberal most likely to watch CNN, read the New York Times and read Bernie Sanders and so on. On Facebook people tend to have like minded people. When Trump was elected I remember watching on election night amazed that so many people would vote for him. So when the subject came up I asked why people did so. It was very interesting as some people heard such a different message from him than I did. One thing a lot of people missed was they really did not think he was serious about building a physical wall, repealing the ACA and expected him to act much more presidential.

So I think presenting alternate views is important, but in a forum like this the intent is easy to misconstrue as putting others views down.

Alan

3-23-17, 8:54pm

Funny that you mention people seeking self validation, because that is something that has really been happening. For instance if you are pro trump you are likely to watch Fox News, read Breitbart and get the Presidents tweets and so on. Likely a liberal most likely to watch CNN, read the New York Times and read Bernie Sanders and so on. What if you were simply anti-Clinton? In your view, would that person still be lumped into the Fox/Breitbart box? It's possible that they could start their newsday with MSNBC's Morning Joe and end it with Fox's The Five, with their local newspaper and the Wall Street Journal in between. Is there a stereotype for that?

Ultralight

3-23-17, 9:05pm

What if you were simply anti-Clinton? In your view, would that person still be lumped into the Fox/Breitbart box? It's possible that they could start their newsday with MSNBC's Morning Joe and end it with Fox's The Five, with their local newspaper and the Wall Street Journal in between. Is there a stereotype for that? I was anti-Clinton. I voted for Bernie in the Primary and then Jill Stein in the general. I read Fox news online, but I don't believe much of it. I also check out NPR, CNN, HuffPo, Breitbart, the BBC, etc. I skim the Columbus Dispatch too.

flowerseverywhere

3-23-17, 9:57pm

What if you were simply anti-Clinton? In your view, would that person still be lumped into the Fox/Breitbart box? It's possible that they could start their newsday with MSNBC's Morning Joe and end it with Fox's The Five, with their local newspaper and the Wall Street Journal in between. Is there a stereotype for that?

me and many others. I watched O'Reilley tonight and CNN this afternoon. I was referring to tendencies we have to validate their own opinion. I did not like Clinton but voted for her. Lesser of two evils. Like others who voted for trump for exactly the same reason.