View Full Version : Tax reform....
gimmethesimplelife
3-27-17, 10:08am
I am wondering what you'all here think? Given that Trumpcare didn't pass, do you believe that Trump can get some kind of tax reform passed through at this point? There is no snark here for me on this topic - honestly I will be hoping to learn something from all the jockeying and games playing that will be going on here. There will likely be editorial after editorial about this topic in the papers and business magazines at the public library, and since this topic is not survival based, it's not a have two bags prepped at all times and be ready to run kind of thing for me. This makes it much easier for me to step back and absorb and perhaps learn something.
So what do you think the chances are of meaningful tax reform passing? Rob
I think something will pass, if only because the majority party is more in agreement in this area, and it's relatively easy to call even minor adjustments "reform".
I will be willing to bet that whatever is passed will satisfy neither the people who think soaking the rich can fund Utopia while simultaneously making life fair, or small-government dinosaurs who regard bequeathing monster deficits to our children as immoral (like me).
iris lilies
3-27-17, 12:08pm
Here is my prediction: Alan will continue to pay, Rob will continue to dip in and out of health benefits provided by Alan, all the while decrying America and lionizing Mexico. Even though for Rob, a ratio of health dollars spent in Mexico to U.S. is something like 1:200 he refuses to acknowledge Alan's contribution.
CathyA wants me to express more "feelings" so here are my feelings: I am angry that Rob continues to bash the real, actual, concrete healthcare provided to him in the U.S. much of that from Alan. His posts feel very much like a guest at a party who complains about the efforts of the host. In that situation as a host I would be surprised and unhappy that my efforts were met with disdain. I would be resentful of that person and would not feel generous about offering more hospitality.
Several times I have thanked Alan for his contribution (now that I am using an ACA health insurance plan) and for my own selfish consideration, I hope Alan continues to pay. P.s. Alan, DH continues to use that commuter airline you subsidize to get him to his small home town in Iowa. Probably Trump will cut that program, and we will be sad that millionaire farmers can no longer fly around on those low low rates.
ApatheticNoMore
3-27-17, 12:17pm
Who pays for Alan's healthcare in reality? His ex-employer in reality is what I'm thinking is who is paying his bills (ie not him or he might actually have a stake in worrying about healthcare costs). But I don't know, could be the VA, Medicare or wait for it ... an ACA plan! (though without subsidy probably, cut off for a subsidy is really low. A truth is: if they wanted the middle class to like the ACA more, they should have included them in it! I mean duh, but the country is run by those who don't even want their proposals to succeed it sometimes seems)
Yea Rob is not going to leave the country. And if he was just honest about it: I'm not going to leave the country because I want to stay with my mom in her old age rather than leave, I find it utterly unobjectionable and understandable, I'd do the same, not everyone would, citizenship is not always so transferable as all that when one has ties is it? Meanwhile the benefits an American (not a Mexican, their's is just the legitimate experience of being a Mexican citizen for better or worse) experiences of living in Mexico are the legacy of unjustly having a stronger currency in the U.S. than Mexico, probably maintained by much U.S. imperialism.
P.S. if one really wanted to talk about tax reform, I'm going to drop a hint: many people think the healthcare proposal ITSELF was primarily a tax reform bill. It's biggest effects would be to cut tax rates on mostly wealthy people. Of course the effects on poor people would hurt more so it got more focus. But it doesn't mean it would be the largest effect.
Several times I have thanked Alan for his contribution (now that I am using an ACA health insurance plan) and for my own selfish consideration, I hope Alan continues to pay. P.s. Alan, DH continues to use that commuter airline you subsidize to get him to his small home town in Iowa. Probably Trump will cut that program, and we will be sad that millionaire farmers can no longer fly around on those low low rates.
We should vote to send Alan a case of Maker's Mark. With other people's money, of course.
Since the Freedom Caucus seems to want to vote against the sky being blue, I think there maybe problems. There has been talk about T trying to bargain with the democrats to get some of his policies though Congress.
In all of his efforts to streamline government, cut the money bleed, throw things back to the state level, and deconstruct the administrative state, it's interesting government farm subsidies have not been mentioned as some low hanging fruit.
I'm not sure what specifically they plan to reform. Fewer tax brackets? Fewer deductions? Changing rates? If so who pays more and who pays less?
I'm not sure what specifically they plan to reform. Fewer tax brackets? Fewer deductions? Changing rates? If so who pays more and who pays less?
I think, like the AHCA, it will involve big tax breaks for the wealthy and less services for anyone who might need them.
At some point though, all those options will run out and they'll need to start raiding the middle class as well.
Teacher Terry
3-27-17, 4:36pm
You don't have to go to Mexico for cheap dental care. I am going to KS soon for implants that cost 33k here and 5k there. Plus the guy has done a ton of them for the last 20 years so lots of experience, etc. Yes I think the wealthy will be helped as usual for the Repub's. I have been to Mexico and you could not pay me to live there.
You don't have to go to Mexico for cheap dental care. I am going to KS soon for implants that cost 33k here and 5k there. Plus the guy has done a ton of them for the last 20 years so lots of experience, etc. Yes I think the wealthy will be helped as usual for the Repub's. I have been to Mexico and you could not pay me to live there.
I'd be very interested in learnin more about someone in Kansas who does implants so affordably.
Teacher Terry
3-27-17, 5:35pm
I can let you know how it goes once I have it done. I go this week for my consult and then fly back a week later for them to do it. I will stay a week in case I have any issues. I am having the entire top done with a snap in denture. They will use my top denture. Last year I had the bottoms done but the denture is permanent and does not come out and it costs 33k. Here they charge the same for permanent or snap in and out but there they don't. The snap in will not have the palate that covers the roof fo my mouth which will be great. My teeth were fine until I got a CPAP machine. Within 4 years they were destroyed. I read that this happens to 50% of people that do not have excellent teeth.
I can let you know how it goes once I have it done. I go this week for my consult and then fly back a week later for them to do it. I will stay a week in case I have any issues. I am having the entire top done with a snap in denture. They will use my top denture. Last year I had the bottoms done but the denture is permanent and does not come out and it costs 33k. Here they charge the same for permanent or snap in and out but there they don't. The snap in will not have the palate that covers the roof fo my mouth which will be great. My teeth were fine until I got a CPAP machine. Within 4 years they were destroyed. I read that this happens to 50% of people that do not have excellent teeth.
Thanks, Terry, that would be great, if you keep us posted. I have heard that about CPAP machines, too. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. 33k is crazy, but that's t he kind of pricing I have heard.
Teacher Terry
3-27-17, 6:14pm
I will probably wait a month until I go back to get a better plane ticket price. So if you have not heard from me by May I have forgotten about it and just remind me with a message.
I will probably wait a month until I go back to get a better plane ticket price. So if you have not heard from me by May I have forgotten about it and just remind me with a message.
Thanks, Terry!
I too take a dim view of tax reform done by someone who so obviously favors the ultra rich and corporations. One thing's pretty certain though: In a few weeks we'll see a whiney tweet saying "Nobody knew tax reform was so complicated!'' To which we'll all once again respond "Everybody knew; everybody but you!!!"
gimmethesimplelife
3-28-17, 8:49am
I too take a dim view of tax reform done by someone who so obviously favors the ultra rich and corporations. One thing's pretty certain though: In a few weeks we'll see a whiney tweet saying "Nobody knew tax reform was so complicated!'' To which we'll all once again respond "Everybody knew; everybody but you!!!"You are dead on, Mary. I can so see Trump tweeting this a few weeks from now.......he's getting that predictable at this point. Shudder. Cringe. Rob
The whole tax policy thing has become kind of predictable. Nobody's released a real plan yet, but all the usual shibboleths are already on display. We hear about corporate welfare and welfare welfare. We hear about the super-ultra-hyper-supersized-rich and their preternaturally gifted attorneys (Why never about their accountants?). We hear about the happy shiny Europeans joyfully feeding at the sweet teat of government. We hear about the poor honest working stiffs getting the annual shaft by those above and below. Soon we'll be instructed that roads are socialism and the AMT as the road to serfdom.
The whole tax policy thing has become kind of predictable. Nobody's released a real plan yet, but all the usual shibboleths are already on display. We hear about corporate welfare and welfare welfare. We hear about the super-ultra-hyper-supersized-rich and their preternaturally gifted attorneys (Why never about their accountants?). We hear about the happy shiny Europeans joyfully feeding at the sweet teat of government. We hear about the poor honest working stiffs getting the annual shaft by those above and below. Soon we'll be instructed that roads are socialism and the AMT as the road to serfdom.
If the government decides where roads should go, directs the money for it and builds and maintains them, I'd call that socialism. There's no reason they could not all be privately owned and maintained, other than that's not the way we chose to do it.
That was definitely an oversight on my part. Clearly the crafty accountants come first, then the crafty attorneys. My bad. :~)
If the government decides where roads should go, directs the money for it and builds and maintains them, I'd call that socialism. There's no reason they could not all be privately owned and maintained, other than that's not the way we chose to do it.
National Review published a wonderful, sputtering-with-indignation piece on this topic a couple of years ago.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425799/notes-ridiculous-meme-charles-c-w-cooke
That was definitely an oversight on my part. Clearly the crafty accountants come first, then the crafty attorneys. My bad. :~)
Thank you! Someday accountants will get the credit they deserve fo making civilization possible.
Thank you! Someday accountants will get the credit they deserve fo making civilization possible.
My grandfathers were one of each; they would have made a dynamic duo. Both Republicans, too. Back when that was an honorable thing. ;)
You'd probably have an argument about which group made civilization possible: women, artists, farmers all have a claim. Muslims made numbers possible--or at least useful, so don't forget them.
And my Scottish clansman Napier invented the logarithm, so don't forget the Scots.
IshbelRobertson
3-29-17, 11:02am
Edinburgh has a university named after him!
National Review published a wonderful, sputtering-with-indignation piece on this topic a couple of years ago.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425799/notes-ridiculous-meme-charles-c-w-cooke
"1. any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425799/socialism-united-states-meme"
Last I checked it was pretty tough to distribute goods without roads.
And my Scottish clansman Napier invented the logarithm, so don't forget the Scots.
With all due respect to Laird John, it was a glorious day for me when I replaced my slide rule with a clunky Texas Instruments calculator.
Muslims made numbers possible--or at least useful, so don't forget them.
I thought they swiped the idea from some clever Hindu. Goes to show what a silly concept "cultural appropriation" is.
Thank you! Someday accountants will get the credit they deserve fo making civilization possible.
Damn straight! My dad was an accountant on the committee that created direct deposit. It was originally started by the Air Force to make it easier to pay far flung employees who might be in places without much in the way of banking services and families in other places. I'm thankful for this improvement to civilization 26 times a year when I don't have to go to the bank and stand in line for a teller to deposit 80 hours of life energy.
National Review published a wonderful, sputtering-with-indignation piece on this topic a couple of years ago.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425799/notes-ridiculous-meme-charles-c-w-cooke
Agreed, lots sputtering with indignation in this article, but it really doesn't present a solid argument. It's just picking out what the author chooses to call socialism and what the author chooses not to call socialism.
One can drag out a dictionary and argue semantics - but the real argument, I think, is what would work better collectively under government control and what would not. And some things do.
Even the author argues that prisons need to be owned and run by the government - but in many cases they are not.
Agreed, lots sputtering with indignation in this article, but it really doesn't present a solid argument. It's just picking out what the author chooses to call socialism and what the author chooses not to call socialism.
One can drag out a dictionary and argue semantics - but the real argument, I think, is what would work better collectively under government control and what would not. And some things do.
Even the author argues that prisons need to be owned and run by the government - but in many cases they are not.
I think he made a good point when he said:
By pretending that all government action is socialism and that we are thus haggling only over degrees, the meme’s makers hope to imply that there is a certain hypocrisy at play. “Given that you support roads and the sewage system,” this line of argument goes, “one has to wonder why you oppose nationalizing the health-care system, as has been done in Britain.”
I think he made a good point when he said:
By pretending that all government action is socialism and that we are thus haggling only over degrees, the meme’s makers hope to imply that there is a certain hypocrisy at play. “Given that you support roads and the sewage system,” this line of argument goes, “one has to wonder why you oppose nationalizing the health-care system, as has been done in Britain.”
It all depends on what you think should be run by the government - after 2001, we nationalized the US airline security industry - I'm not sure I agree with that one.
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