Online Shopping Makes Suckers of Us All [Archive]

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pinkytoe

4-22-17, 11:44am

I found this article to be very interesting about how the prices of things we buy online are manipulated constantly. Makes me more determined to buy used whenever I can:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/05/how-online-shopping-makes-suckers-of-us-all/521448/

ApatheticNoMore

4-22-17, 12:07pm

When at work I noticed the price of something online that was around $65 had gone down to $25, ok whatever indecisive about buying it before but going to do it, going to buy it, $25, what's $25 but will wait and do it when I get home. Then going online at home the price is back up to $65. So decided not to buy it (but I admit they could have me if it went back down to $25 haha - see I'm manipulatible too - but only for the right price :) ).

Buy used eh it depends. I think thrift shopping can tap in to possibly MUCH more addictive shopping behaviors than variable pricing ever can! Because it's intermittent rewards/reinforcement. Which is the exact same mechanism slot machines use to addict people. The thrift shop may be a bust and may have a bunch of junk (it often does) or have a whole bunch of nice things. Intermittent reinforcement. Btw no I do not think it is a deliberate plot by the thrifts so much as they get whatever donations they get, but I think it can work to their advantage and feed into addictive type shopping behaviors.

And of course garage sales are exactly the same intermittent reinforcement. Now if used means EBay or something then that is a huge enough market one WILL find what they want - no variability (but if it's bids the prices will also be all over the place and bidding is probably addictive in it's own way, but some stuff is just fixed price). Or somewhere like an antique shop that is a least less variable than the thrifts, but still.

sweetana3

4-22-17, 12:08pm

thanks for the article. I shared it with my friends. I have always know this about internet shopping for airfare. I still believe my search was manipulated to give me a one time search 40% discount on an expensive fare. Never appeared before or since.

Tybee

4-22-17, 12:36pm

I love online shopping--it seems that that is the only way to find exactly what I want! I wanted a simple financial calculator-- went to Staples, Walmart, Target, and Meijer to try to buy it, but no one had a good one. Was able to buy two different models to try out on Amazon.

Overall, I seem to save money doing it--if you can even find the thing! Went to Sears to buy a knob for my Kenmore stove and they actually laughed at me and said go online. Went two places, the first being Sears online to get part number. Bought it from an appliance online repair place ten dollars cheaper.

I always try to find something local first, but often, it just isn't available, and I live near a lot of stores, so for me, it works well.

Simplemind

4-22-17, 4:50pm

I do a lot of online shopping for things that are easier to find there. It is that old time is money thing, plus gas. Rarely is free shipping really free. If you know your prices many things on Amazon are a couple bucks more which is where the free shipping is coming from. I will leave things in my basket for weeks and watch the prices go up and down. Sometimes just a little and sometime quite significantly. If a good price comes up I have learned to jump on it. Spa chemicals, furnace filters, special size lightbulbs, vitamins, pond supplies....... quicker and easier on Amazon than driving around. Just bought some new luggage on Amazon after we had spent a couple weekends looking at several major retailers. Much better price and free shipping.

Gardnr

4-22-17, 9:29pm

I'm just not a consumer. Don't like shopping and really don't like online shopping-it's rare for me. Our spending tends to be meals out.

Lucky me.:cool:

flowerseverywhere

4-22-17, 10:33pm

Brick and mortar stores are closing like crazy. They cannot compete with the selection, price comparison and convenience of online. It will lead to unemployment and a local tax base loss.

Simplemind

4-22-17, 11:22pm

I worked in retail for years finally leaving in '86. So many of the stores and malls are now closing. Nothing like the consumerism of the late 70's and 80's. I always hated to shop unless I was getting paid to do so. Not a fan of traffic or parking lots. With the exception of things we consume we really have nothing to shop for. Now that we are both retired we never buy clothes with the exception of shoes since we are out walking every day. We know the fit of our brands so order replacements online.

ToomuchStuff

4-23-17, 2:55am

Online has benefits for local shops, as well as detriments for them, IMHE. I can go online and find if a store has it in stock, observe it over time to find out when is the best time to buy (off season) and sometimes even find out if the stores web price and store price match or not. This helps in planning off season purchases, once a year (example, desk/wall calendar for planning, late June, early July).
This also helps because sometimes I find out that prices are comparable online, to store prices, or sometimes one way or the other.
But in general, what online shopping has done for me, is make the world one big store, where you see everything and you realize you may want x, but then that leave no money for y, let alone you can buy it from this section of the world store for one price and another for another. I used to feel I had to buy something if I went into a store, it felt like an obligation. That feeling is gone as now I can find out if the store has stock, before leaving and then not wander the store to find it. Or I can decide it is cheaper for me to buy it and have it shipped, then to go into a store where I would make impulse purchases.
When it comes to books, or movies, I generally only go for used, as they are WAY under what a new one costs, and I generally one read a book once, and may get three uses out of a movie. There are other things I will buy used, or open box, etc.
Ebay has certainly changed since I first bought something from them in 96 (387 math co-processor). Now they are much more of a retail store then an actual auction site (I miss Yahoo as their competitor). When they started changing YEARS ago, they quickly taught me the lesson that some will offer "free shipping", which more often then not means your paying extra for the good and they expect to sell enough at a big enough profit, to cover what they may lose in shipping to some locations. Too many sites use gimmicks (Wayfair, "free shipping", or Deal Dash "the fair and honest auction site", that doesn't let you view their site to judge, without some kind of membership, etc).

Zoe Girl

4-23-17, 9:26am

I am so happy that I can FIND the books I want reasonably. I recall looking for certain books and really struggling to find them at all, so online and used books are a great deal for me. Those very specific things that I really need but are not many places,

I also buy for work on-line when I can, I really hate shopping. It is usually walmart to get what I want anyway. So I have to compare crappy walmart to potentially crappy online.

However yarns and other things I really need to have my hands on I always buy in person, generally know how much they should cost and think it is a good deal

Zoe Girl

4-23-17, 9:39am

Teacher Terry

4-23-17, 12:47pm

I buy most things online. I rarely go to a store. We don't shop a lot because being semi-retired we don't need many things. My DH likes to grocery shop so he does that. If he didn't I would just order it online and pick up at the store. Yarn is one of the few things I will shop in person for but I also buy that online too.

Chicken lady

4-25-17, 7:57am

I had a small tool that the kids used often in class. It wore out. I originally bought it at Michaels, so I checked Michaels on-line before driving to the store. It had been discontinued. Found it new in the box on Amazon for about the same price I paid after cutting out a paper michaels coupon 8 years ago. Free shipping and had it in hand less than 24 hours after placing the order.

given where I live, that makes mail order faster and cheaper than "buy local". As the item is going to be the same made in China item no matter where I buy it, what possible motivation would I have to buy it in a store?

also, while shopping on line for the item, I found a related item made in the USA that will allow me to produce similar tools myself at almost twice the cost. (And I actually bought it, because "similar" is not "identical" and allows me to create desirable customizations.). And "almost twice the cost" is STILL less than I would have paid at Michaels without the coupon.

if other people are paying even less, good for them.

eta, I buy used as much as possible because I believe in making use of an existing item rather than creating demand for more uneccessary items, and it reduces packaging. (All of the packaging from my Amazon order will be reused except the factory packaging of the items. That is about half recycle, half trash - as it is not suitable for long-term storage of the items, I will be reusing other plastic packaging that would have become trash for that purpose.

iris lilies

4-25-17, 8:12am

catherine

4-25-17, 8:53am

I lament the decline of some of the brick-and-mortar stores, but at the same time, I shop online a lot--even though I live in the Land of Many Malls. For me, the money/budget trap I fall into is the ease of pressing that button. It is designed to make the purchase SO easy--you have the One-Click on Amazon, and PayPal--you don't even have to get out your wallet.

In the "old days" when you actually had to write a check and fill out a form and put it in an envelope and put on a stamp and send away and then dream of the two weeks away when it would arrive in your mailbox... it was all such a barrier to the spend. But now, hey, where I live I can get some Amazon Prime things before the sun sets!! And they're generally cheaper! And I don't even have to make sure there's gas in the car!

I KNOW I spend more than I would if online shopping did not exist.

Chicken lady

4-25-17, 8:57am

Given the impact of the Michaels store on my local environment and the nature of both the jobs (order processing for inventory, packing, shipping, stocking, running the register) and employees vs the impact of the delivery system (my usps employee delivered the box to my house) and the nature of the jobs (order processing, packing, shipping and delivery) and employees - my experiences prejudice me toward Amazon. Close the Michaels and reuse the building for something else. Or tear it down.

i try to buy local for things that are produced locally. Preferably directly from the farmer, artisan, chef, etc.

and *i* spend less, no gas cost, no impulse buys of other "great deals" I really didn't need - the second product was a "thing I didn't need until I knew about it" which I will actually use in class tomorrow. but the random "really cheap" clearance notepads or whatever I would probably have bought at Michaels for "later" or "just in case" would most likely have been bad choices.

pinkytoe

4-25-17, 9:17am

No denying that online shopping is often preferable. The gist of the article though is that we, the consumers, are at the mercy of the algorhythms. Prices are manipulated according to how and when we buy. In some future world, we will probably just have amazon and Walmart for online shopping. I bet they will swallow up all the smaller companies or third party their items.

Chicken lady

4-25-17, 9:46am

But I'm ok with the price being manipulated. I think it's a great concept. I just think the important parts of it aren't being fully utilized - the consumer needs to know that he is being charged based on the interaction of production cost and willingness to pay. And then we get to the important part - the part where the consumer thinks about what the product (from that source) is really worth TO HIM. It's interesting to imagine what our economy would look like if every consumer approached every transaction that way.

catherine

4-25-17, 9:48am

No denying that online shopping is often preferable. The gist of the article though is that we, the consumers, are at the mercy of the algorhythms.

Yes, very sophisticated market research. When price is set at what the market will bear, and there are all kinds of high-tech ways to figure out what that "sweet spot" is, any business is going to take advantage of that information. Value is very subjective.

Tybee

4-25-17, 11:25am

I do agree that online shopping has definitely changed my shopping patterns and my approach to shopping, although that may be age and stage of life, too. I am more interested in getting just what a want, and don't care about buying something new; I usually buy used for everything I can, including books, dishes, music, clothes, etc/ In fact, I use online shopping to return to my little time warp of when I could buy what I wanted to buy--so I might buy Midwinter china from the 70's or vintage Marimekko fabric. Online shopping supplements my estate sale shopping. Since I work at home, my wardrobe is pretty yucky at present. I do buy new things like hairbrushes and suitcases as needed wherever I can find them to my liking at a good price, and I always try local first.

creaker

4-25-17, 11:37am

If I think something is worth the price, I'll buy it - if I think it isn't worth it I won't. The advantage of online shopping is I can do it from my desk instead of wasting my time and resources going to a brick and mortar to see what they might have. And I have resources at my fingertips to research what I want to buy.

Also, a lot of what I buy used is also bought online.

JaneV2.0

4-25-17, 12:09pm

Camel Camel Camel is a useful tool.

I watched a set of Prismacolor pencils on Amazon go from eightyish to over a hundred dollars for months before I bit at the low end. I don't mind the game. Shopping in person is problematic, as many have pointed out, so I'm grateful to have a wide variety of goods at my fingertips--with the added bonus that Amazon is local. (Did I mention I came within an eyelash of working there in the nineties? I couldn't get past the hours/transportation issue.)

BikingLady

4-25-17, 5:12pm

I am almost at all online shopping except fresh food now. I dislike going into any store. If I think Oh I really need something now, I will head to a store and then grumble at the selection/price/people/service. I love Amazon Prime and Pantry. If only it had been around years ago when we lived Out There. I was eBay shopper for years, now I hardly ever visit there.

Old way of shopping has gone the way of the Dinosaur for me.

JaneV2.0

4-25-17, 7:22pm

And I think B&M stores are at least partly to blame. I've hit my local Bartell's Drugstore multiple times looking for common items in the last couple of years and came up empty-handed. Rather than dragging myself up and down store aisles, it's much easier to just pull up Amazon and let my trackball do the walking--complete with multiple choices and product reviews. I'm with BikingLady--about the only physical shopping I do is for food.

jp1

4-25-17, 9:18pm

i'm with bikinglady too. I go to safeway multiple times per week (it's right across the street) and the local butcher and fruit/veggie stand equally often. And costco once every couple of months. We don't even go to petsmart anymore after SO found an online place that has the same cat food cheaper. Walgreens.com sells the few toiletries I need cheaper than I can get them in their bricks and mortar store. Most of my clothes come from llbean.com. And for everything else my first go to store is amazon. If amazon doesn't have it I do a google search and end up buying from places like headsetpartsunlimited.com (yes, that's a real place, and yes, I've purchased stuff from them twice...)

ToomuchStuff

4-26-17, 1:40am

I think there are also different viewpoints that affect our shopping habits. I do not generally buy clothes or shoes online (with exceptions, aka specialty or not available locally) as I generally want to know things fit, and/or need them when I go for them. I also am not an online grocery shopper, although I keep getting CC offers where they would like to give you money back to shop at your local gas stations/grocery stores/restaurants (things that are used up before you get the bills, and that allow them to build a better profile of you). I am not signed up for those grocery store discount cards, where your offering them tracking.
Due to all the online shopping, a local business has grown in my lifetime. They are a damaged freight seller, who has gone from major discounts, to now, sometimes more then retail. (know what your looking for/at or you will get taken).
Books are better used. Movies as well, after they have been out a while (I really wish blockbuster would have stuck around as an OLD movie store, and give up competing in the new movie section).
Other stuff, is all over the place, from tools (New old stock, used, auction sites) to stuff at garage sales. (which are a little hard to buy from online)

Teacher Terry

4-26-17, 12:46pm

WE do a big grocery shop monthly and then go on a weekly basis to pick up fresh fruit, veggies, milk, etc. These little trips are super quick as we have most things we need. If I buy the same style/brand of shoes, jeans etc I buy online and have the dog food delivered to the door.

BikingLady

4-26-17, 1:15pm

Clothing, Best guess is just under 100% online. I buy from the sites that I know and the sizing of. Shoes are almost to that % now. I may be the reason B&M stores are fading. Today is blood work day for my beloved mix Polly. I will get the script and order online also. I know WM can fill pet scripts but one click and done.

Yarrow

4-28-17, 1:41pm

Being disabled, I order everything online, including groceries from my local store. I thank God I'm living in this time of technology as it makes my life so much easier, and I don't have to ask my kids to shop for me.

dmc

5-25-17, 9:00am

Rogar

5-25-17, 10:11am

I like to give business to local B+M stores, but big box stores have come to dominate retail and for me it's a pretty fine distinction between big box stores and online shopping. One of my beefs with online shopping is the amount of packing materials. At least the local recycler separates corrugated cardboard to recycle. In a lot of cases online is probably more efficient than driving around trying to find something. I also think that some things on Amazon are from generic places that pick up warehouse deals that include lesser quality or seconds and have no interest in repeat customers. I also am trying to pay cash for at least some of my shopping and do not like to spread my credit card info around to too many places. I also think about the people who work the big supply warehouses filling orders and stuffing boxes, and what a monotonous job that must be. Mother Jones recently did a feature called, "I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave". http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor

In spite of everything I do end up buying a lot of things online, but always try to consider local retail options and will even pay a little extra for local. I especially like finding used books on Amazon. My favorite nursery was recently sold to make way for a housing development and I'm even considering buying some garden plants online from a supplier a state away. They carry a lot of xeric plants that are had to find and have friends who have complimented their service.

JaneV2.0

5-25-17, 10:26am

I always look first for used CDs (yes, I'm a dinosaur--I like to have a hard copy) and books at Amazon, as well as bargain e-books. I subscribe to BookBub, so I get suggestions every morning. It they're too expensive--say, $1.99 and up--I check the library.

ToomuchStuff

5-25-17, 10:59am

I love buying online. It seems like we have packages on the front porch daily. I made my first purchase of a handgun this week online. Very easy, ordered on Monday and had it Wednesday at noon. Local gun shops did not have the one I wanted and I was able to save some money also, so it worked out great.

But i do probably buy more than I would otherwise since it's so easy.

LEO friend recommended both an online place to me as well as one of the cheapest/easiest FFL transfer places. The one I wanted hasn't been readily available for some time, so I found a used like new for a good price, then with recent rebates, a larger sized new one for less then that, and a couple hundred off the local big box stores. (didn't see it at smaller ones around here)
That savings effectively paid for probably a years worth or practice rounds.

I like to give business to local B+M stores, but big box stores have come to dominate retail and for me it's a pretty fine distinction between big box stores and online shopping. One of my beefs with online shopping is the amount of packing materials. At least the local recycler separates corrugated cardboard to recycle. In a lot of cases online is probably more efficient than driving around trying to find something. I also think that some things on Amazon are from generic places that pick up warehouse deals that include lesser quality or seconds and have no interest in repeat customers. I also am trying to pay cash for at least some of my shopping and do not like to spread my credit card info around to too many places.
In spite of everything I do end up buying a lot of things online, but always try to consider local retail options and will even pay a little extra for local. I especially like finding used books on Amazon.

So many mom and pops have given away to big box stores, and now locally, we have always had a run of multiple building center stores in close proximity, that all are hurting now that Menards moved in.
You paid a lot more at the old neighborhood hardware stores, but you were paying for convenience. That always lead to the question what is a "little bit more" when comparing online to store shopping.
Then it would depend on the item/items you order as that packing you deal with, may be the same packing the stores you go to have to deal with. This is especially bad with restaurants/grocery stores as how much food contact packaging can/does get recycled?

Most of my used books are from Amazon, but I think I probably have too esoteric tastes to find them locally. (technical books typically)
I agree with the cash part, as my CC info was stolen twice, once from the CC processor (not the businesses I dealt with but their back end), and most recently my info was used, on an not yet activated card to buy some scam insurance, so that had to be on the CC companies end.
My debit card info was stolen once and expect that was through the backend from another particular store. It was quickly caught.

JaneV2.0

5-25-17, 11:33am

Mom and Pop can sell on Amazon now. Or eBay.

ToomuchStuff

5-25-17, 1:07pm

Mom and Pop can sell on Amazon now. Or eBay.

They have been able to for a number of years. There have been a few that went to that method and eliminated the store front/rent expenses and operate out of their houses. Local regulations will have an effect on then having human business though.