View Full Version : Clearing Out Parent's Home
I wasn't sure where to post this, either in Organizing or Family but here goes. This a vent but also would appreciate any feedback.
My sister and I are in process of clearing years of stuff from my parent's home, a 3rd sister lives out of state. Dad is still living there, though not sure for how much longer, Mom passed away two years ago. Last year, Dad finally permitted us to start moving things out of the home but only Mother's stuff, however my sister is so aggravated at this point that she's dealing with his stuff anyway. Not anything he would miss, just the years of newpaper clippings, magazines, and bags of leaves that he insists he will use to mulch the garden but is still sitting there years later. Not sure that's wise, but her call (she will do it no matter what I say) and since she lives five minutes away, she deals with the brunt of it so I can see why she's taking matters into her own hands, but the family dynamic is something for another post.
Attic, basement, garage still with tons of stuff even after spending the last six months cleaning out. Dad continues to hoard things in his room and now he's taken over my mom's room which had been cleaned out to some extent. Sister and I did a major amount of cleanup in the basement all day yesterday (Dad was out) and at this point, I am just discouraged over how much longer this will go. I can't believe the basement has turned into what it has, it was always organized now stuff is just piled all over the place. Same thing with attic. Garage is a downright hazard. Plus not only are we going through parent's stuff, we are going through grandparent's stuff because when our grandparents died / moved out of their homes, where did it go? Into my parent's attic.
Aside from the difficulty of letting things go that my mother wanted us to have because there's too much for us to take on, sister is worried about money and is insisting that some stuff will be valuable such as antiques, depression glass, china. Not sure if any of that would net much, maybe it would, I don't know. Anyone here have any knowledge / luck with that?
Sister has suggested I go on and ebay the stuff (because I have an ebay account), but I refuse because I will not bring all of this into my house and furthermore spend more years of my life dealing with this stuff. DH and I have been decluttering our own house, because DH will be 62 (still working) in two months and we expect to move in a couple years to a smaller one level home to accommodate our own aging.
And there's the fact that Dad is still there so really don't think that selling things is doable, he will object and sister likes to get ahead of herself. But I am just so discouraged. I can't imagine doing all of this. Not to mention the dust levels are horrendous, I am coughing / sneezing for days afterward and I have no history of allergies. Am fine after a few days back home. I am wondering if we should just stop/slow down until Dad is out of the home which could be soon.
ApatheticNoMore
5-8-17, 1:44pm
sister is worried about money and is insisting that some stuff will be valuable such as antiques, depression glass, china. Not sure if any of that would net much, maybe it would, I don't know. Anyone here have any knowledge / luck with that?
Sister has suggested I go on and ebay the stuff (because I have an ebay account), but I refuse because I will not bring all of this into my house and furthermore spend more years of my life dealing with this stuff.
if it's really worth anything you could probably sell it on consignment (say nice furniture) or have an estate sale (if it's really worth anything). Otherwise I have to doubt whether it is really worth much.
I feel for you. The time and effort to put things on EBAY is not worth your time...or effort. If you find things worth value I'd probably make some donations to my favorite thrift shop and ask for a tax receipt cause I sure don't want to have a yard sale.
Its daunting and I'm sorry you are going through this.
Having done the severe downsizing 2 1/2 years ago after DH passed away,
- I chose what I wanted/needed,
- offered the kids and spouses their choice of what they wanted in one weekend,
- needed a massive clean-up so sold contents for a prepaid $$$ amount for clean-up of the large shed to a young man starting out,
- and then gave away the rest. Minimal hassle for moving a huge amount of old stuff.
My wonderful family helped with a simple move but it was still a lot of work. Happy with my choices and new home.
My personal philosophy is that I use/enjoy the purchases that I make and after that they have no value to me. Clear them out. If someone fixes them up and makes a little money, that is their gain. I have peace of mind which is priceless.
A friend went through something similar to you after his mother died. Lovely home with quality furnishings. Sibling lived out of area so my friend and his wife did the massive clean-up. After all their work, expenses of an auction, the two siblings gained $2000 each. He deeply regretted making all the effort for a poor return. He said he and his wife would have been further ahead to simply open the doors and let people take what they wanted and then get a dumpster for the rest.
If your father has used and or enjoyed whatever is in the house but no longer needs it, it has no value, get rid of it anyway you can. Wait until he had moved out and then clean out using a dumpster. Stop struggling in the dusty mess. It is not worth it.
Your sister may not agree but she makes her choices and you make yours; yours probably should be to protect your health.
We're going through this right now too, in my family, cleaning out Mom's house now that she's moved into an assisted living facility.
My older sister, like you, is majorly stressing over the whole thing. I keep telling her there's no urgency, no deadline, the house/stuff isn't going anywhere. It does help her get some perspective. She's a bit on the Type A side, me not so much. I told her maybe when mom is more settled (she's having trouble adjusting and older sis is dealing with her most of the time since she's not working) we can set a reasonable deadline in the future to try and have the place cleaned out.
As long as your dad is still in the home, I'd say just chip away at what you can; deal with the rest of the stuff later. At least you'll know what you're up against. Maybe just asking yourselves why the need to clean out is so urgent right now--- and fighting against dad--- might be helpful.
Chicken lady
5-8-17, 2:33pm
The flag for me here is "dad continues to hoard things in his room..." Is he bringing in more stuff or just holding on to stuff already in the house? If he is refilling the space you are clearing out, stop. You will only increase the total scope of the job. Also if he is actually hoarding, the cleaning out might be making that worse.
The only thing I would suggest is to find and take the things of your mothers that are important to you now. That way if you have to use a more extreme cleanout method down the road you won't be searching for or missing them.
iris lilies
5-8-17, 2:35pm
Echoing this others, do not try to sell this stuff on ebay, not worth it.. Do not fret it, it sll aint worth it.
My mother had moved a few times in her senior years and gave things away each tme she moved, yay! But still, she had stuff. I took the silver and an antique punch bowl and sold it all, splitting the money with my brother. I looked over her jewelry, 90% costume jewelry, and told mu sister in law she could have all of it. My mom had given me the one big family ring a few years prior.
My brother said he would eBay the rest. i told him "go for it, buddy, you keep all that of the miney you can get for it, I dont care." He and his wife would set up a garage sale, take it down and box up leftovers, open up shop again, rinse and repeat. in other words they were pretty obsessed with Stuff. he ended ip selling some of our mom's things on ebay, but when it came time to close on her house, most was chucked into a dumpster.
We've been going through this for 1.5 years now after my mother-in-law passed away.
It's hell, and I wish you the best with dealing with it.
What's holding us back is too many involved people either have emotional attachments to items, or "want to honor Mom's wishes".
Well, Mom should have dealt with this pile of junk while she was still alive - she had 90 years to do something about it. My first inclination was to hire a dumpster and the local football team, and spend a weekend throwing most anything out. The "treasures" inside this home are for the most part not worth significant amount of money, nor will they find a place in any of the relatives' homes - it's just old stuff. Too many people just don't want to let go.
(Really, who cares about 50 years of back issues of academic journals - every single character of those journals is now online... Yet some people have spent countless hours trying to find an institution to accept this "collection"....)
#screeeeeeaaaaaaam
I have dealt with this several times in my life and it was one of the main motivators in simplifying my life and possessions years ago. Having to go through other people's stuff is just so painful. When I moved here, I helped someone I met go through an entire house full of stuff after she inherited the whole mess. Basement so full you couldn't walk through it. Multiples of everything. She knew of my antiques background so I went and looked at all the glass and china. Truth is most of it is no longer collected even though just a few decades ago, it would have been considered valuable. She got merre dollars for it by having an estate sale. There isn't much you can really do other than chip away if there is still someone residing there as I see it.
iris lilies
5-8-17, 3:38pm
This reminds me, now that we have our trust and will in place, I need to write a letter to trust officers to assure them they should get rid of all of our STUFF as quickly and painlessly as possible. I have said this verbally, but it needs to be in writing, too.
I want them to NOT attempt to honor me in any way thru my STUFF.
This reminds me, now that we have our trust and will in place, I need to write a letter to trust officers to assure them they should get rid of all of our STUFF as quickly and painlessly as possible. I have said this verbally, but it needs to be in writing, too.
I want them to NOT attempt to honor me in any way thru my STUFF.
+1
My MIL has been cleaning out over the last few years. Has become downright minimalist. She started with condensing 50,000 slides onto CDs sent her children copies and pitched it all. By the time she is done the only thing left may be the barrel of ugly china that came over on the first ship and has been hidden in closets for the past 200 plus years. My parents will be a little harder, true farmer mentality of "that'll come in useful someday" but it's organized and not horded by any means. It will be easy to have a farm auction after we all get what we want including the land. Farm auctions in that part of the state are quite the event. Food trucks, reunions, friends buying in support/need/ or "that'll come in useful someday".
So sorry you have to go through this saguaro! What makes it more difficult is your sister and also having your dad still living there....hoarding. My mother rented a condo from us for like 25 years. She really trashed it. We had to spend a lot of money fixing it up to sell after she moved into a nursing home. But it was easy in the sense that I was doing it myself, and didn't find a whole lot of stuff with memories. But still.....it was a hard, disgusting job.
If your sis wants to keep things, then make her take them home with her. Just to make it easier on you after your dad is gone, throw out/recycle everything you can now. You can take things to Goodwill. We even had some charity organization pick up stove, fridge, furniture, etc.
Even if something there might have great value.....the question becomes...is it worth all your trouble to sort through everything and find it and clean it and keep it in your house or sell it? After your dad is gone, you and your sister take what you want, and then have everything auctioned off.
I feel a great need to not do that to my kids....so I'm always trying to clean out. And I tell them that unless they really want something, don't think you have to keep it for my sake.........'cause I won't know the difference!
Even though it might cost a bit for a few months after your dad goes, you could also rent a storage unit to keep things you're not sure you want to get rid of........then after a couple months, make the decision. Sometimes having things away for awhile helps you decide when you go back and look at it.
I don't envy you. So much junk to deal with. Good luck!
I understand what you are going through. I posted often three years ago several times of my struggles after mom passed and dad in house and still is. I tried the eBay thing. In the end decided the stress vs actual money to be made from the trinkets. For me in the end it was not worth the stress I was dealing with and then selling the prized possesions that really ended up not being that valuable. Breathe and take time to not stress,,,,I know hard to do when you are in the tornado so to say.
Having just gone through this with In-laws and elderly mom, I agree that ebay would not be worth the hassle. I was able to sell things like depression glass through a consignment store-not a lot of money, but was something. The rest was just donated.
I wasn't sure where to post this, either in Organizing or Family but here goes. This a vent but also would appreciate any feedback.
My sister and I are in process of clearing years of stuff from my parent's home, a 3rd sister lives out of state. Dad is still living there, though not sure for how much longer, Mom passed away two years ago. Last year, Dad finally permitted us to start moving things out of the home but only Mother's stuff, however my sister is so aggravated at this point that she's dealing with his stuff anyway. Not anything he would miss, just the years of newpaper clippings, magazines, and bags of leaves that he insists he will use to mulch the garden but is still sitting there years later. Not sure that's wise, but her call (she will do it no matter what I say) and since she lives five minutes away, she deals with the brunt of it so I can see why she's taking matters into her own hands, but the family dynamic is something for another post.
Attic, basement, garage still with tons of stuff even after spending the last six months cleaning out. Dad continues to hoard things in his room and now he's taken over my mom's room which had been cleaned out to some extent. Sister and I did a major amount of cleanup in the basement all day yesterday (Dad was out) and at this point, I am just discouraged over how much longer this will go. I can't believe the basement has turned into what it has, it was always organized now stuff is just piled all over the place. Same thing with attic. Garage is a downright hazard. Plus not only are we going through parent's stuff, we are going through grandparent's stuff because when our grandparents died / moved out of their homes, where did it go? Into my parent's attic.
Aside from the difficulty of letting things go that my mother wanted us to have because there's too much for us to take on, sister is worried about money and is insisting that some stuff will be valuable such as antiques, depression glass, china. Not sure if any of that would net much, maybe it would, I don't know. Anyone here have any knowledge / luck with that?
Sister has suggested I go on and ebay the stuff (because I have an ebay account), but I refuse because I will not bring all of this into my house and furthermore spend more years of my life dealing with this stuff. DH and I have been decluttering our own house, because DH will be 62 (still working) in two months and we expect to move in a couple years to a smaller one level home to accommodate our own aging.
And there's the fact that Dad is still there so really don't think that selling things is doable, he will object and sister likes to get ahead of herself. But I am just so discouraged. I can't imagine doing all of this. Not to mention the dust levels are horrendous, I am coughing / sneezing for days afterward and I have no history of allergies. Am fine after a few days back home. I am wondering if we should just stop/slow down until Dad is out of the home which could be soon. First and most important thing: I am sorry you have to go through this. It sounds like a nightmare of hoarder proportions. Vent on this thread as needed!
If I had any bit of advice I'd say be wary of succumbing to materialism. It is an urge we all have whether big or small. But it is not worth it. Let the stuff go -- no harm in selling a big ticket item or two. Just don't don't take that mountainous hoard onto your shoulders!
Godspeed and good luck!
I want them to NOT attempt to honor me in any way thru my STUFF.This right here is a million dollar insight! So smart and right on.
More people have been physically damaged and damaged their relationships over stuff that has little value. Sure there might be a $200 glass in there somewhere but it is going to take weeks and months of valuable time and effort to get any value from it. Do you want to work for $1 an hour? If someone does, let them but dont let them force you to participate. Tell them your time will be spent disposing of stuff in the quickest and easiest method possible.
When my Dad died, we told my brother to take whatever he wanted out of the tools and equipment and to take the harvest money since he did 100% of the work and we did not live on farms. He took 25 pickup loads of paper trash out of the house and all his work was a blessing and helped to sell the property. (Dad had every piece from 1949 to present). He deserved the money. We shared the sale of the property and that was more than enough.
Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies and perspectives. I know that I am not alone but it helps to hear what others have dealt / are dealing with.
Yes, I am getting stressed out with this. When we first started last September, when Dad decided he would allow us to clean out, I took it in stride but with the last couple of clean outs it's getting to me. There is no hurry but sister is very high strung, micro managing sort. She can't let it go. In part her personality but it's also family dynamics. There's arguments and fights between sister and Dad. Between the grimy / disgusting condition of the house and the tension, I hate going there.
It also doesn't help that I had a mishap tripping over some wood in the back yard that my Dad has been keeping forever. Sister flips out about Dad keeping the wood and proceeds to pick up the wood and pitch over the fence near the trash cans. Dad sees this and I have never seen a 89 year old man bolt out of the back door so fast. Immediately a fight starts over the wood even as I am lying there. Dad wins, sister puts wood back. it hit me right there that this is going to be an uphill battle and is it really worth to keep doing this, if he is going to undo our work. He will check out the trash and bring things back. His hoarding in his room is confined to mail and magazines that he says he will read but doesn't. Because of piles blocking access to the dresser, he's piling his clothes on the floor.
So now I am thinking we should just stick to Mom's stuff and deal with the rest later. There is no hurry here good luck telling my sister that. Just because we have to do it, doesn't mean we have to do it all now. Nor should we have to do it the hard way, something that my family seems to like doing. Martyr complex runs strong.
Some boundaries have emerged however, on my part:
1. No traveling down the river Ebay. I know it's not worth it, far more hassle than what you get for it. If I did the Ebay thing, I would be at it for years, not worth my life energy.
2. No taking stuff home anymore to sort out. It gets sorted out at the house and goes straight to Goodwill. Sister is taking stuff to her home and cleaning it first. The first months I did take home my mom's quilt and knitting supplies to sort and be given to charity knit and quilt groups but that's all done. Not doing any more of that.
3. Refusing to deal with large furniture. Not killing my back over this. Sister wants to move dresser down from attic. No way, so now she wants to break up the dresser and bring down the pieces. Why? Anyway, not going to happen at least with me.
4. Summer is coming. Uninsulated attic is awful during summer months. Even last September while working up there I felt I was going to pass out. Told sister I am not going up there for any length of time during the summer. I pushed to clear out attic as much as possible during winter months for a reason. Luckily it was a mild winter so not too bad.
5. Being very choosy on what I do keep. Requirement is that it has be something I will use or enjoy which eliminates about 99% of the stuff. Much of it is junk, unuseable (from my perspective) or not my taste. Or I have it already. Best to pass along to others who will enjoy them. Keeping it just because it belonged to my parents is not only obviously counterproductive to my decluttering goals but it only kicks the can down the road.
More boundaries will follow, no doubt. Sister is not going to be happy and while I want to support her, she has made her choices around this situation. I have told her only she can make different ones that won't take so much of a toll on her, and I will support her establishing boundaries but only she can do it. It's not the end of the world if she does.
I hate that my parent's legacy is dealing with their stuff/junk. To be fair my late mother did make efforts to deal with it and she managed to some degree but it was too much and even she wanted to hold on to a lot of things because she thought we would all want it. Plus there was my Dad who made minimal effort.
I'm unclear why this is happening with Dad still there? It sounds like more emotional turmoil than is worthy of your time and your heart. If I were you, take the things of your Mom's that have meaning to you and step out. You could ask your Dad if there is something specific he wants you to manage for him.
Yes, I've been through it. I have 5 siblings. I cleared Dad's things per Mom's specific instructions. Then when Mom died, I was asked by my brother to take charge of clearing the house to take advantage of a 7d possession cash offer sale. Did it in 1 day with 3 pickups and 2 trailers to haul away furniture to the person who wanted items, 4 strong guys and my niece who drove back/forth to goodwill till we were done.
Let your sister spin if she likes but you do not owe anyone your emotional capital to chip away at this problem. It's a great time for some Tough Love.
I'm unclear why this is happening with Dad still there? It sounds like more emotional turmoil than is worthy of your time and your heart. If I were you, take the things of your Mom's that have meaning to you and step out. You could ask your Dad if there is something specific he wants you to manage for him..
Sister has been stressing for years over the big job of cleaning the house. She as well as my other sister lived under my parent's roof for far longer than I did and both saw it all piling up. I suspect she pushed Dad to OK cleaning it out but she's starting to overstep because she just can't help herself. Entirely possible that once Dad figures out what she's doing, he's going to call a halt to the whole business. That might not be a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
iris lilies
5-8-17, 9:23pm
OP, it sounds as though you have defined practical boundaries that are quite reasonable.Good for you! It is amazing how many senior citizens grapple with their elderly parents over Stuff. Life is too short, just wait for the oldsters to die and then chuck it all. Although it sounds as though you will have a battle with your sis. Well, if she wants to spend 2 years touchdown ng and fussing ver every object, let her. My guess is that your sib will want the estate settled quickly and sister-who-wants yes no and maybe piles wont be respected.
ToomuchStuff
5-9-17, 1:54am
You already figured out the glass and such. Market on all that pretty much dropped out long ago.
If your dad said you can start on mom's stuff, here is the way I see it.
Go through your mom's stuff and take what you each want. If there is something that multiple siblings want, then you can deal with that. Anything of your "mom's" you don't want, well technically, it isn't your mom's as she passed away and without a will or something specifically giving you legal authority over it, rule of thumb is it becomes the survivors property.
Eventually, you will have to do what we expect to do when one of my parents passes away, and bring shovels to move junk to the trash.
Good luck.
I have spent the last five years of my life working on this. I could write a book. Many, many, many sales. Items in several consignment shops. Dumpsters and multiple trips to metal recyclers. There was a lot in the house and a lot of it had value. It was going to take mucho research to get prices on it. Nobody wanted it but did want the value from it. I had to approach it as a full time job. I'm doing one more sale at the end of the month and then I'm done. I will say as trustee I get paid for my time. I never ever want to do anything like this again. We have learned so much and even though we don't have a fraction of what my folks had we are still clearing out much of our own with this last sale. I won't have our kids face this kind of a burden.
BikingLady
5-10-17, 5:53am
Simplemind. You have learned so much from this and don't want your kids to face the burden.
I would think most would learn this, yet it keeps happening with most. Did it not happen with the parents, parent's? Why did not they learn? Maybe most did yet forgot along the way. My Mom was a planner, she did the what she thought was correct, yet in the end it was a mess on all levels. From junk to medical, to leaving a husband who had never ever seen a bill or written a check, or shopped..... I can not even think of the dumpsters at my father's home when the time comes, the paperwork, the sales. I made a choice in my mind after doing it all with Mom and Dad so far that I will call my brother and say IT'S all yours, Meet me at the Lawyers and I will sign off. I realized the stress and work would not be worth the payout in the end. Brother has nothing and never will at 60 so, two birds with one stone so to say.
After the events of the the last three years we had the full trust set up for ourselves to make it that much easier on our children. This will not help with the possessions, but maybe if we make it till we are old >8)we will have liquidated.
@Simplemind, I cannot imagine doing this for five years even to be paid for it. The expenditure of life energy is not worth the money as you most certainly know. I am willing to walk away from anything that could be potentially valuable and like BikingLady, I am mulling my options on just signing off when Dad passes away. Sounds terrible I know. Won't make me popular but already sister is stressing over how much $$ to fix the house when it comes time to sell (again getting awaaaay ahead of herself and is assuming worst case scenario meaning Dad dies broke) but should that come to pass, frankly I do not have the money to fix when DH is on the brink of retirement and could be retired by the time it all happens. Sis has more money to do this sort of spending whereas we do not. DH lost a well paying job in the Great Recession and when he went back to work, he took a 45% pay cut. He's not going to recover at this point. It's bad enough I am taking the time and energy to clean and then to spend a ton of money? Can't do it. However, now I am the one getting ahead of myself, but it's something I just dread in the future.
Back to decluttering, DH and I have been decluttering our home for years but it had gone in fits and starts. Until last year. Now I have been absolutely ruthless and have chucked things I never thought I would. Even though we have no children, someone will have to deal with whatever is left and who will really need it? Two nephews will get plenty from my sister and another nephew and niece will be inheriting my SIL's unbelievable hoard. I won't add to their burden and they will have a big one because Momma keeps everything believing it will be valuable. So getting rid of stuff and giving to those who need / enjoy while I am around to do it.
If anything, I would like to get to be as minimalist as possible when it comes to the stuff.
Teacher Terry
5-10-17, 1:23pm
In my parents early 60's they decided to leave their home and move into a apartment because my Dad was very ill. So for 2 years my mom and I emptied out much stuff by having sales or donating. We had fun during that time as I was a SAHM and she was retired. They were not hoarders but had put everything down the basement such as us kids ice skates, snow shoes, etc. They then lived in 2 bedroom apartment and in her mid 80's she disposed of more. So not a big deal when she died. She let us 3 kids pick out pics we wanted and then she went to the dumpster and threw the rest away. That actually was a sad, sad moment for me to watch. On the opposite side I have cleaned out homes that were horrible, etc. I have been getting rid of stuff for years so not such a big job for my kids. My DH is the opposite so his kids will have to deal with his stuff if he dies last. I really feel for you. With all the family dynamics going on it sounds like a mess.
iris lilies
5-10-17, 1:52pm
Cautionary tale about fixing up dad's house in order to sell it, this happened to someone I know:
Her father lived in a little old house, needed work, he went to a nursing home. He died there. She insisted on"fixing it up" for better sale. Her siblings were not enthusiastic about contributing toward that, they just wanted the stuff out of it and it sold. I shoild mention that she is obsessed with physical objects and she and I have many clashes about Stuff vs Life Energy to deal with the stuff in our little club.
Anyway, she insisted it be fixed up, several issues came up that caused fixes to be a bigger problem than expected and it took longer time by a year than it should have taken. Anyway, the house sold. But, oops, the feds came after dad's estate to pay for his nursing home bill. There was no profit and in favt she lost money, because she had sunk money into the place for fixng it up.
Tldr: make sure the estate owes nothing to the feds before planning to fix up a house in an estate.
ApatheticNoMore
5-10-17, 1:59pm
Make sure he owes nothing to the feds, however I think laws recently have made it harder for the feds to actually claim a house from the estate for end of life medical expenses like nursing homes, so it's quite possible the feds have no claim on a house, even if Medicaid did indeed pay for nursing home care.
Or suffice that is what the estate lawyer I talked to said when I asked if they could come after a house for medical expenses and whether having a trust changes that in any way (the answer was no and no - trusts are mostly for avoiding probate for middle class people). So as always actually talk a lawyer, rumors online are just that, but the lawyer did assure me as much as I could be assured (hey I tend to worry).
Tldr: make sure the estate owes nothing to the feds before planning to fix up a house in an estate.
That's exactly how we lost my great-aunt's cottage I always talk about. My great-aunt, who was so together her entire life until she died at age 92, pleaded with my mother to take her to change her will so that the cottage would go to my mother instead of her sister (my mother's mother). My mother was slightly disorganized and didn't like talking about unpleasant things like wills, and then my aunt died and, just exactly as you said, the government wanted recompense for my grandmother's nursing home expenses. So we had to sell the cottage to do that.
Very good advice, IL!!
Teacher Terry
5-10-17, 2:47pm
When people die most of the homes are sold "as is" and I am sure that this is the reason.
IL, thanks for the cautionary tale regarding if money is owed for nursing home care. That was one of my concerns that if there's a lien on the house from the feds. All the more reason not to sink money into it. While Dad is still independent now, if he goes into a care facility there's very little retirement account money left, so decent chance there will be a lien involved unless he has a very short stay.
Even if there is no lien or money left over, I don't see doing any fixes because not only does the house need a ton of work it's also in an area where people are buying up old bungalows (like my parents house) and fixing them up to the point of tearing out the interior and completely rebuilding from the inside. Any fixes we do would most likely be torn out anyway.
So whether the house is sold to pay for care expenses or not, either way, it's not going to be worth fixing.
iris lilies
5-10-17, 10:27pm
Make sure he owes nothing to the feds, however I think laws recently have made it harder for the feds to actually claim a house from the estate for end of life medical expenses like nursing homes, so it's quite possible the feds have no claim on a house, even if Medicaid did indeed pay for nursing home care.
Or suffice that is what the estate lawyer I talked to said when I asked if they could come after a house for medical expenses and whether having a trust changes that in any way (the answer was no and no - trusts are mostly for avoiding probate for middle class people). So as always actually talk a lawyer, rumors online are just that, but the lawyer did assure me as much as I could be assured (hey I tend to worry).
Hmm, interesting. I skimmed Google articles and there is a major change in California that went into effect Jan 1, 2017. Is that where you are? But I did not get from the article the same info you got from your attorney. But he is the expert.
The Lookback period for Medicaid recovery of assets is administered by the states and those laws and practices vary by state.
Simplemind
5-11-17, 1:10am
Part of what has taken me years is that my folks owned properties and I had to sell those. Had to get renters out and do repair work. On the rentals and the main home we only did work that needed to be done for a loan to go through. Not a single upgrade. My son's dad is a contractor and has been hired time and time again to rip out new work for the taste of new owners. Told me it would be a total waste of money and to let new owners come in and upgrade. In the end it made no difference in what we asked for the homes and we weren't out money on a remodel.
I had two barns and two large shops filled with so much stuff I had to hire somebody who knew how to price tools and farm equipment. I had tractors, trailers, boats and vehicles to sell. It took us a long time to wade through what was obvious garbage and remove it to get to a place where stuff could be evaluated. My brother and sister were quite happy to sit back and let me handle it. Attics were filled to the brim. I had never been up there. I joked and said it reminded me of the end of Indiana Jones when they were storing the arc of the covenant.
Although I always knew this job was going to fall in my lap, I really thought my dad was going to be a huge part of taking care of it. It wasn't until my mom died that we realized that my dad had dementia as well. Her issues eclipsed his and we thought what we were seeing was stress and grief. His decline has been rapid and he could not help but thankfully he did not hinder. He was able to answer a lot of questions on the properties that I never could. We downsized him last. The crème of the crop went to his new apartment. That lasted for a year and a half until we needed to move him into dementia care. Now I have to sell those last belongings and I'm done.... we are liquid. What a learning process this has been. It uncovered so many family issues........
Never..... ever....... will our kids have to go through something like this.
This reminds me, now that we have our trust and will in place, I need to write a letter to trust officers to assure them they should get rid of all of our STUFF as quickly and painlessly as possible. I have said this verbally, but it needs to be in writing, too.
I want them to NOT attempt to honor me in any way thru my STUFF.
As a bank trust officer, I just gotta say - I love you!
Hello everyone, coming back to update and vent. A week ago, I went down to check on Dad and see if he needed anything as sister and family were on vacation. Expected to do some cleaning, maybe grab some items that my sister and I already sorted out, but mostly to visit. Not what happened. I came into the house to find it a disgusting mess. Counters and floors in dire need of cleaning, stuff piling up on the floor including the various household cleaners that Dad had pulled out from under the kitchen sink thinking to "sort it out and clean". Except it had been sitting there for days not to mention the tripping hazard. The bathroom was in a similar state with old shampoo, personal care items on the floor. He likes to buy things at Costco but it's too much plus he has no room so it all gets stored on the floor. Door to his bedroom was shut because he didn't want me to see the state it was in. Noticed things piling up in another bedroom.
Convinced him to let go of the household items / personal care stuff as most of it was old or he already had another bottle somewhere. Told me to pour it all down the drain (always been his solution wonder how the pipes in a 100 year old house can stand it) but I insisted I would take it to my county's household chemical waste dropoff. After gathering and boxing that stuff, I cleaned up the floors, countertops where I could, stovetop, bathroom, did some laundry, took out garbage / recycling, tried to deal with the Costco stuff, then quickly left as Dad was starting to question all that I was taking and was picking through it. So in spite of the promise not to take things home, I took two boxes of cleaning stuff and kept it until yesterday when I could get to the county dropoff facility.
Barely 3 days later, I called to check up on him and he thanked me for my work but rather sheepishly admitted he undid it already. In another attempt to "organize and clean" he took out more stuff, plus he decided to "reorganize his desk" by building new drawers by taking some old drawers a neighbor put in in the alley. He's doing this building work on the kitchen floor. Gah!! Good thing I took pictures after it was cleaned up as proof before it went away, I just didn't realize how quickly it would go away.
At this point, I suggested to the one sister who lives out of state that other sister and I should scale back on the cleaning / sorting as our work is getting undone and then some. Do bare minimum until he's no longer in the home. She disagreed, we have to keep on going, it's just a part of dealing with Dad. I should mention that this sister did a lot of the housework before she left home, and she takes vacation time to come back, visit and.....clean. She has done this for years and while she complains that she has no time to do anything else, she feels she "has no choice" (yes, her words). Other sister will just keep on because she's so focused on the fact that "we have to do it". So I stand alone in deciding to scale back the effort. Should be interesting over the next few months, but I have been making a point of going down once a month to do this work since September and frankly, this is just turning out to be a crazy treadmill. I am so done.
Hello everyone, coming back to update and vent. A week ago, I went down to check on Dad and see if he needed anything as sister and family were on vacation. Expected to do some cleaning, maybe grab some items that my sister and I already sorted out, but mostly to visit. Not what happened. I came into the house to find it a disgusting mess. Counters and floors in dire need of cleaning, stuff piling up on the floor including the various household cleaners that Dad had pulled out from under the kitchen sink thinking to "sort it out and clean". Except it had been sitting there for days not to mention the tripping hazard. The bathroom was in a similar state with old shampoo, personal care items on the floor. He likes to buy things at Costco but it's too much plus he has no room so it all gets stored on the floor. Door to his bedroom was shut because he didn't want me to see the state it was in. Noticed things piling up in another bedroom.
Convinced him to let go of the household items / personal care stuff as most of it was old or he already had another bottle somewhere. Told me to pour it all down the drain (always been his solution wonder how the pipes in a 100 year old house can stand it) but I insisted I would take it to my county's household chemical waste dropoff. After gathering and boxing that stuff, I cleaned up the floors, countertops where I could, stovetop, bathroom, did some laundry, took out garbage / recycling, tried to deal with the Costco stuff, then quickly left as Dad was starting to question all that I was taking and was picking through it. So in spite of the promise not to take things home, I took two boxes of cleaning stuff and kept it until yesterday when I could get to the county dropoff facility.
Barely 3 days later, I called to check up on him and he thanked me for my work but rather sheepishly admitted he undid it already. In another attempt to "organize and clean" he took out more stuff, plus he decided to "reorganize his desk" by building new drawers by taking some old drawers a neighbor put in in the alley. He's doing this building work on the kitchen floor. Gah!! Good thing I took pictures after it was cleaned up as proof before it went away, I just didn't realize how quickly it would go away.
At this point, I suggested to the one sister who lives out of state that other sister and I should scale back on the cleaning / sorting as our work is getting undone and then some. Do bare minimum until he's no longer in the home. She disagreed, we have to keep on going, it's just a part of dealing with Dad. I should mention that this sister did a lot of the housework before she left home, and she takes vacation time to come back, visit and.....clean. She has done this for years and while she complains that she has no time to do anything else, she feels she "has no choice" (yes, her words). Other sister will just keep on because she's so focused on the fact that "we have to do it". So I stand alone in deciding to scale back the effort. Should be interesting over the next few months, but I have been making a point of going down once a month to do this work since September and frankly, this is just turning out to be a crazy treadmill. I am so done.
Sounds like you are right, the right answer for you is to step away and detach with love...
iris lilies
6-11-17, 12:57pm
Saguaro, I think it was here, and in one of these discussions about elderly parents, that someone gave a good guideline: we should concentrate on taking care of our parents, but draw the line at their stuff. our parents are not their stuff.
The stuff will eat us alive!
Actually, it is probably a good thng that your dad has a project involving drawers and consteuction. It occupies his mind. But yeah, you are right to draw that boundary about cleaning and organizing his place.
Hello Saguaro, I have two brief suggestions for you. One is that you can get art work, decorative items evaluated by an independent appraiser to get a disinterested idea if your items have significant value or not. Why argue over stuff that is not going to worth much in the marketplace. This can save some grief. The actual work of cleaning out the larger items like furniture is lot easier left to a clean out company. My Mother's house had an enormous amount of contents some of which were salable as antiques and some of it was unmarketable. A local antique dealer bought the better pieces and we hired a crew and two 30 foot dumpsters for the rest that the three of us did not want. We filled them! Hopefully, you can do things gradually and not have to rush, which we did but avoid the dust and leave that to someone who is equipped to remove it.
My mother just passed away May 20. We are in the process of cleaning out her house, too. So far it's been an ok process between all the sibs.
Since I am the one who has always done genealogy, they keep bringing me stuff they think I'll want to save. Some of it is helpful, other not. One thing has me a little befuddled. It's a family Bible from my dad's side of the family----from 1850!! It's about 5 inches thick, heavy, musty and stinky. There are names and dates written (beautifully) on a few of the back pages. I can simply scan those pages, but I feel kind of weird about just throwing it away. What would you do?
My sincere condolences on your mother's passing. Grateful to read that the responsibility of clearing up is being handled so well by the sibs.
When an inner feeling makes you stop and think as in this case, I would keep it until it feels right to do otherwise. That won't happen very often. I have found that items that I kept under these conditions often were needed or useful elsewhere.
iris lilies
6-12-17, 12:43pm
My mother just passed away May 20. We are in the process of cleaning out her house, too. So far it's been an ok process between all the sibs.
Since I am the one who has always done genealogy, they keep bringing me stuff they think I'll want to save. Some of it is helpful, other not. One thing has me a little befuddled. It's a family Bible from my dad's side of the family----from 1850!! It's about 5 inches thick, heavy, musty and stinky. There are names and dates written (beautifully) on a few of the back pages. I can simply scan those pages, but I feel kind of weird about just throwing it away. What would you do?
Well, depends on how musty it is, and it depends on how much other stuff you keep from your family.
but I would never throw away the oldest single artifact from a side of the family.
I had an old blanket that was said to have accompanied a great grandfather to the civil war. I researched blankets of that era and it did seem to hold up to that story, so I passed it on to the eldest son of the eldest cousiin while I was scanning photos and dividing up stuff. We had very little to pass on to the kids today and that is fine, but each kid got something.
Kay, my sympathies on the loss of your mom.
I am a DAR member and I know the DAR library has a large collection of family bibles; you might consider donating there:
http://www.dar.org/library/collections/dar-special-collections
Bumping thread with an update. At this point, no major cleaning out of stuff has occurred since my original post. The only kind of cleaning I have been willing to do is the standard upkeep with the three rooms my dad has been living in: kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and just enough to keep it clean and safe. This didn't cause the dustup I expected from sis as Dad has been spending the last two months mostly in the hospital (which has stopped the hoarding) and now that he has a cancer diagnosis, we have been focusing more on his care and not his stuff.
Bumping thread with an update. At this point, no major cleaning out of stuff has occurred since my original post. The only kind of cleaning I have been willing to do is the standard upkeep with the three rooms my dad has been living in: kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and just enough to keep it clean and safe. This didn't cause the dustup I expected from sis as Dad has been spending the last two months mostly in the hospital (which has stopped the hoarding) and now that he has a cancer diagnosis, we have been focusing more on his care and not his stuff.
The priority of basic safety and cleanliness makes sense. It can be a lonely process but good for you for doing this.
flowerseverywhere
8-31-17, 11:33am
I hope everyone is taking a lesson from this. Ask your kids if they want any item of yours. Unless it is something you use everyday just give it to them. Keep decluttering and cleaning. I imagine most of our kids want little. One DIL told me as an only child she knows she will have to deal with her moms stuff and it already overwhelms her.
We have very very little excess but in one of my closets are two big bins of old computer wires and so on. DH is afraid he might need them. I am thinking most is very outdated and should go. Oh well, not enough to cause discord about.
Teacher Terry
8-31-17, 12:19pm
I have given things to my kids that they wanted. I have gotten rid of so much that my things will not burden anyone when I die. I think it is a great idea to just focus and keeping your Dad safe and clean. Once he passes then the real work will begin.
Bumping up for an update and some ranting: Dad has now been moved out of the home and is currently in a rehab facility while undergoing cancer treatment. His time at rehab will be over as of this Friday, after which he will be moved to a nursing care facility. He is too weak to be living on his own between lack of eating and the treatment. His prognosis is not that great and there's a possibility that continuing treatment will be reevaluated since he refused chemo last week though he allowed it yesterday at a reduced dose. The lack of eating is a real problem but he is refusing a feeding tube, which is his right to do IMHO.
I have continued to focus my efforts on my Dad, taking him to treatments to help ease the burden on my sister and visiting him on weekends. However, now that we are facing care facility costs, my sister is back to going nuts over emptying the house, selling it and told me "we have to go in and clean out every weekend", which given the amount of crap in that place would take us years, makes no sense at all.
Now, there is still money in Dad's retirement account, enough to cover costs for a few months. At this point I have told my sister that my efforts are focusing on taking care of Dad and not his stuff but she continues to make a fuss over cleanup. When she starts in about cleaning, I emphasize care of Dad over stuff, lather, rinse, repeat. Yesterday I let her go on and just didn't address it at all.
Frankly I have enough in my plate with Dad and his care. I have to make a 2 hour round trip just to get to where he is on top of the trip to and from the hospital and sometimes I have had to stop at the house for things (feed cat, get some legal papers for sister and such). That is fine, but when the time comes to clean out the house, I am not making that same kind of trip on an ongoing and indefinite basis (I say indefinite, because sis insists we have to do it until it's done, whenever it's done, it's all very open ended). As far as I am concerned, hire a crew to help, there's too much stuff and too many hazards such as rusty stuff, terrible dust, and possibly a dead pet, a cat that went missing 20 years ago and parents though she may be somewhere in the house (yeah, that's when I knew they had too much back then).
Haven't gone there yet with sister who will not be happy but that will be my stance when the time comes. Get the cleanup crew, local football team, whatever, but we cannot go it alone with just the two of us. Will take forever which flies in the face of her saying it's urgent, which everything to her is.
Ok, rant mode over. Carry on.
sweetana3
10-11-17, 12:48pm
Totally understand. Agree with focusing on Dad.
Do you have any problem with telling sister to take care of the house? Would you accept what she does? We pretty much allowed our brother to clean and dispose of all Dad's property. Told him to take the tools and anything else he could use. He harvested the crop and we told him to take all the proceeds. It was so worth it to us to not hassle over the stuff. (Note: not all families are like this.)
Or can you give her a very specific time and a very specific amount of time that you can give her for this duty? If not, that is understandable.
SteveinMN
10-11-17, 1:22pm
I vote for the team approach. Hire it out. When my parents moved out here, they loaded onto the moving van the belongings they really wanted and the rest of it was consigned to a company that did estate sales. They would give to my parents anything they earned over their charge and any items left after the sale were sent to charity. Done and done. They didn't spend weeks/months going through stuff or cleaning. saguaro, if your parents have as much as you say they have, this will be a considerable effort but likely one which could be paid off by sale of items you and your sister (or any other sibs) don't want.
Or make a deal with your sister: you're taking care of Dad right now and that is where your time and energy are going (especially with a multiple-hour commute). When it's time to clean out the house, you'll make <fill in your desired number> trips to help clean out and close up and you are done. She can take the visits consecutively or you both can work the first weekend or two and then hold off remaining visits until there's a pile of stuff that requires your input or help in moving. If Sis wants to keep on after that, that's hers to do. But you are done.
I think you need to set your boundaries on this. It sounds like Sis' situation is substantially different from yours.
I came across this the other day:
http://www.businessinsider.com/swedish-death-cleaning-2017-10?r=UK&IR=T
My wife just got back from a month's stay at her recently-deceased father's house, simply shoveling through the "stuff". OMG.
Teacher Terry
10-11-17, 1:39pm
I would just take the broken record approach. Our focus is to take care of Dad and you can clean the house if you want or we can hire someone. I do not have the time to do this. Rinse and repeat until she gets it.
As far as I am concerned, hire a crew to help, there's too much stuff and too many hazards such as rusty stuff, terrible dust, and possibly a dead pet, a cat that went missing 20 years ago and parents though she may be somewhere in the house (yeah, that's when I knew they had too much back then).
Sounds as though you have your support level well defined. Too many people see things as of a certain value. I strongly disagree. If I had use of it, no longer need it, it has no value. No struggle to let go.
Old stuff is just that old stuff that has served its purpose. If someone comes in and makes a great find, good for them. You are not cleaning up the mess.
I'm with you. Spend the time with Dad. It's your priority. Tell her you'll discuss his home/belongings after he's gone. She doesn't have to like your response but you really should state it and hold your ground.
catherine
10-11-17, 3:01pm
Wow, how blessed I am that all my mother's belongings disappeared in a fire when she was recovering from a stroke. When she recovered from the disorientation she would ask, "What happened to my fur coat?" or "What happened to X, Y, Z." and I'd say either "It's gone now, Mom," or "I saved it!"
In any case, her demeanor was only improved by the lack of possessions in her life. She became a truly spiritual being of cheerfulness and acceptance. When she died, her "legacy" was, not a lot of IRS tax forms to fill out, but a heart of love.
It took my brothers and I exactly 20 minutes to sort her belongings, and that was a great inheritance.
In terms of the OPs question, I have no answers, but I think facing things like that reinforces the value of ensuring your own kids don't have to go through what you are going through, saguaro.
Do you have any problem with telling sister to take care of the house? Would you accept what she does?
There is really nothing in the house that I want or am especially looking for. I myself would have no problem having her take care of it, or even selling things and keeping the proceeds, especially since she's hellbent on doing it her way. But that would be in her words, "unfair" and "putting it all on her". But it would not occur to her that it's unfair for her to expect unlimited amounts of my time and life energy while she needs to touch everything in the house.
Sister has a thing for wanting things to be fair and is focused that I have not "put in my time" in her opinion. But this has to do with our own life choices and less to do with what is going on now. I moved out of the family home much earlier than my sisters, who stayed in what is best described as an enmeshed family situation which got more entrenched over time. I was concerned about the enmeshment as far as how that would play out when my folks were older because at the time they were still healthy and working, yet my sisters were doing a lot of "caretaking" for them while I was out and living my own life. Therefore this idea that I have not done enough.
I think you need to set your boundaries on this. It sounds like Sis' situation is substantially different from yours.
Sister lives 5 minutes away and my parents had her number on speed dial for everything, long before they needed care. I understand she has carried a lot of the burden but she has also made her own choices around this. I have told her over and over only she can make different ones, that I cannot change this for her, only she can.
Or make a deal with your sister: you're taking care of Dad right now and that is where your time and energy are going (especially with a multiple-hour commute). When it's time to clean out the house, you'll make <fill in your desired number> trips to help clean out and close up and you are done. She can take the visits consecutively or you both can work the first weekend or two and then hold off remaining visits until there's a pile of stuff that requires your input or help in moving. If Sis wants to keep on after that, that's hers to do. But you are done.
Plan A for me is team approach, get a cleaning crew, do an estate sale, afterward donate and done. Sister thinks there are things that are valuable and worth selling but really doesn't have a sense of what they are (nor do I) but is convinced there's valuable things. An estate seller could help with that. However, if she is hellbent on this "cleaning out ourselves" approach then the above is Plan B. I will help only so many times afterward she is on her own. If she decides she wants to sell items on her own, she can do so and just divide the proceeds with other sister, I am fine with that. I am not going down the River Ebay.
sweetana3
10-11-17, 3:14pm
Sounds like you have some good boundaries in place. There will be a lot of guilt trips. The big thing for them is that you moved away and they were stuck for their own reasons. You are never ever going to live that down. So decide on what you can offer, Plan A, and if they don't want to do that, then your help with Plan B is XXX. That is it choose or not.
With hoarders, everything is valuable. They have probably heard this over and over from your parents. Even if something might have some value, when time is factored in, the value becomes less and less.
Sounds like you have some good boundaries in place. There will be a lot of guilt trips. The big thing for them is that you moved away and they were stuck for their own reasons. You are never ever going to live that down.
To the bolded: that is really the heart of the matter. What's interesting is that while my parents were upset over my moving away and this attitude undoubtedly affected my sisters, however, at the end of her life, my late mother didn't care about any of that anymore. She was just happy that I was there. Same is now happening with my dad. But that doesn't stop the scoldings from sister on how I should "contribute". So I know that there will be guilt trips and yes, I admit it's uncomfortable for me but I also know that boundaries must happen here.
It's because I can't give over this much of my life over to stuff anymore. I have spent lots of time dealing with other people's stuff, both in my personal life and professional life as I was tasked with cleaning out whole departments after layoffs in my previous job. I am done with it and I am currently downsizing my own possessions as I want to handle it while I have the energy and willingness to do so.
I came across this the other day:
http://www.businessinsider.com/swedish-death-cleaning-2017-10?r=UK&IR=T
I read that article and I was interested in the author's advice over getting rid of embarrassing things that could cause your surviving family hurt or unhappiness. I actually just got rid of letters and cards from some old boyfriends. Not because of anything racy, far from it, but because some of them were very emotional and well, private. This was the article I read that finally made me destroy them:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/schmich/ct-mary-schmich-met-20170210-column.html
Bumping for another update. Dad passed away last Saturday. He took a turn for the worse the prior weekend, had to go to the hospital where he was treated for pain and a bedsore then moved to hospice care. Before that weekend he indicated to my sisters and I that he was done and didn't want to continue treatment. He was in hospice for about 3 days. I was with him when he passed peacefully in the early morning. A very profound experience for me.
Now the tough stuff: now that he has passed busy busy sister is taking her bereavement time to continue cleaning out. Sister who lives out of state is here to help and I am using my time off to help as well. Yesterday we boxed up tons of clothes to take to Goodwill and throw out tons of old food.
However, busy busy sister is highly emotional at this time and it's walking on eggshells around her. Frankly, she has become pretty abusive, especially yesterday morning when, long story short, she went off like a stick of dynamite when I didn't give the answer she was looking for. I got a litany of reasons of why I "don't help", "don't take initiative" and "it's not fair" among other things. All 48 hours after Dad died. She told me that maybe she should just "do it all and she will mail me the check". Was very tempted to say OK to that. Since that is a family issue and not a "stuff" issue, I will leave any further details for a post in the family forum, if I find the need to post.
Back to the "Mess Left Behind": both sisters are very resentful of being left to deal with it, as am I. The good news is that the busy busy sister seems to want to get through it quickly, hire an estate sale company and cleaning crew. I am urging her, whenever she stresses over whether something should be left for estate sale every other second, is to leave it there and see what they say, not make a judgement call on whether it will sell or not, thereby making us move it.
I will be so happy when this is done. The stuff is a major hassle but the family dynamics are far worse.
Float On
10-24-17, 10:16am
So sorry for both your loss and the family issues. I'd let her vent and yell...it seems to be how she deals with it. Maybe write both your sisters a letter when this is all done just thanking them for their efforts in this emotionally rough time dealing with stuff as well as loss. Use the "we are sisters through thick and thin" stuff and I bet after some time she won't even remember being so abusive. Be forgiving of yourself and others.
So sorry for both your loss and the family issues. I'd let her vent and yell...it seems to be how she deals with it. Maybe write both your sisters a letter when this is all done just thanking them for their efforts in this emotionally rough time dealing with stuff as well as loss. Use the "we are sisters through thick and thin" stuff and I bet after some time she won't even remember being so abusive. Be forgiving of yourself and others.
Ditto to this thought. It is a tough time to deal with it all.
My condolences on your loss, Saguaro.
Teacher Terry
10-24-17, 1:47pm
So glad you got to spend time with your Dad before he passed. It is so hard.
catherine
10-24-17, 2:10pm
So sorry for your loss, saguaro. You are fortunate to have had the chance to be with him. I was with both my mother and my mother-in-law when they died, and I agree that it is a profound experience.
Regarding your issues with your sister, grief can cause people to act in weird ways, so I think FloatOn's advice regarding your sister's outburst is correct. Hard to do. Families are difficult sometimes. But it sounds like you are each contributing in your own way to just getting the stuff in the house addressed.
SteveinMN
10-24-17, 10:35pm
My condolences, Saguaro...
Adding my condolences. Take care of yourself.
Thanks to everyone for their condolences.
Been on a hiatus online for the last few weeks, dealing with the memorial service which was over weekend following Thanksgiving and just overall trying to de-stress a bit.
One thing my sisters and I did was unload 700 books. We found a reseller who would pick them up for a $50 fee. If the combined value was over $50, you would get a check for the difference. Well, we got a $120 check, which we split 3 ways. Given my sister was stressing over the trouble it would take to haul these things over to Goodwill, this was definitely a win. All we did was bring the books down from the attic and various other places, pile them in the living room and the resellers took care of the rest. Plus we got a little money for it.
Sister seems to be a bit calmer (with me anyway) now though I understand things are now a bit tense between her and other (youngest) sister who lives out of state. In a nutshell, youngest sister stood up to her over demands on her time while she and BIL were here for the memorial service. Actually a long time coming as youngest sister has always had a problem setting boundaries, so we will see how this plays out over the next few months. Sister seems to be learning that maybe, just maybe we have both hit our limits with her so maybe she will modify her stance over having to go over every.single.thing in the house.
dado potato
12-4-17, 7:20pm
Adding my condolences also.
If an item does not have special sentimental value, nor is a dealer interested in buying it, then I would suggest the responsible sister donate it to a thrift shop.
happystuff
12-5-17, 9:08am
My condolences as well.
Bumping for an update. Things were going along and now it's come to a grinding halt.
Over the winter, got a good part of the main floor of house cleared (junk, clothes, bedding mostly) except for furniture and whatever is going into the estate sale. Basement was a mess and after one day after Christmas that my sister and I spent cleaning, pitching and trying to get some order out of the chaos, sister (who is executrix) threw up her hands and said "I am going to let the estate sale folks handle it as they told me not to throw anything away". Sister and BIL have been over there during the winter to do small amounts of cleaning with me getting there when weather permitted and sister was a point where she needed my input or help.
Things were looking like we were ready for estate sale plus sister was going to contact realtor about selling but now, she's telling both me and other sister (who lives out of state) that she won't sell for another year. Say what? And furthermore she won't get to the estate sale until fall. Selling season is in full swing here and it's pretty much a seller's market. I am surprised as I thought that she would want this off her back not to mention the money. Other sister and I are not happy about this, we both want this done.
For one thing, she's caught up with all the family photos that are still left in the house. So, we get them out (I have offered to take some) and we can deal with later but no, she doesn't want that. She convinced we need to organize, scan and get them to other family members as a lot of the photos belonged to my grandparents. Fine but she's making it into something that has to come first. And she wants make improvements to the house, her focus is on getting done the things that "Mom wanted done but never happened because Dad got sidetracked". There's no need to make the improvements Mom wanted, Mom is no longer living there. This is purely emotional on her part. My take is that now that she can pull the trigger on selling, she's finding reasons not to. I understand it's hard but it needs to be done and keeping the house empty for an extended period of time (and in a big city neighborhood) makes it vulnerable to theft and vandalism, a concern sister dismisses because "the neighbors are retired and always around". She forgets that the time my parents' house was robbed 25 years ago was in broad daylight with retired neighbors on either side of us who were "around" and didn't see a thing.
I have kept my mouth shut thus far because she does a lot of flip flopping and always changes her mind on what she's going to do next. Don't really know what my options are as she is the executrix and has the legal responsibility. I have indicated that I am willing to help to get this done as quickly and efficiently as possible but am not willing to put in more time if this is going to be dragged out.
iris lilies
5-29-18, 12:25pm
Omg, still dragging her feet with this! So sorry.
It is so freeking obvious that you all can pile all photos into a box or boxes and cart them to someone’s home to be carefully dealt with later. It is important to get the estate sale set up, sell crap, haul off the rest of it, and then sell this house.
If she wants to consider the family photos important assets of the estate, and not close out the estate until photos are copied and distributed, so be it. As long as all other significant resources are distributed, the status of photos probably wont matter much to you.
convince her that the photo project is a big one and it needs her undivided attention, so everythhing else must be done first.
Doing additional work on this house is ridiculous. Your position is reasonable.
Ypur sister is emotional and illogical in this situation which is fairly typical of people.
How frustrating this must be for you. It has been going on for some time. Is it possible to jointly discuss this with a realtor or lawyer or other professional that is known and trusted by all parties to give an objective perspective on the next steps? Sometimes this objective voice with no agenda or skin in the game, so to speak, can diffuse the emotions of everyone involved.
I just erased my post for privacy reasons, but Saguaro, I am going through it too and you have my deepest sympathies. I keep thinking this too shall pass, and we will have happy memories of better times.
But what a mess to live through in the here and now.
iris lilies
5-29-18, 1:07pm
I would like to add one recent observation of the estate sale process at my friend’s house:
I believe the estate sale company priced things way too high, and then, when they did not sell, their job was still done. The total household sale profit was $6,000 which my friend had to split with the company. And while that split is fine, their job was done on Sunday at 6pm while my friend was left with craploads of stuff to get rid of by his house closing 3 days later.
It took several friends with trucks, plus two charitable organizations coming into his place to load up on free items, to empty this house. Which was not huge, by the way, but it did represent 30 years of accumulation.
So I guess the lesson here is: be careful of your expectations of how much an estate sale will clear out this house.
@IL, you just echoed my thoughts about estate sales. Sister is convinced a lot of stuff will sell in the estate sale. She's now second guessing our selling of 700 books to the book reseller last October, thinking that "maybe we would have gotten more money in the estate sale". She was disappointed in the $120 we fetched after pickup fees. To me it was not the money, but getting those darn books out of the way. After the estate sale is done, whenever that is, the next thing will be calling junk people or the Goodwill truck. I don't think sis realizes how much is going that way.
@razz, my sister has an attorney. I don't know if she's talked about any next steps with the attorney or not. I do know she met with attorney a few months ago and the result of the discussion was that most estate stuff was taken care of, that "all that was left was to sell the house". Sister has a way of digging in her heels when I or other sister suggests things, which is why I agree that getting an objective perspective might be helpful and is also the reason I have kept quiet. Other sister flew in to attend a family event over weekend, is leaving tomorrow and just texted me she was unable to convince executor sister to sell now.
@Tybee, thanks for the good wishes. I am sure we will get through this, just it annoys me to no end that it was be done the hard way. Doing things the hard way seems to be ingrained (or hardwired?) in some members of my family.
My mom passed away in August. We went through the house and found important papers, etc. My brother and I and our families took momentos, furniture, etc. we wanted. I gathered up all the photo albums and geneology notebooks, etc. and brought them to my house. My 21 yo son had just moved out, so his old bedroom became the storage for that. We had an estate sale in October. The way they work here, the estate sale folks do all the sorting, pricing (and sometimes cleaning) for 40% of the gross. Saturday is full price, Sunday is half-price. They gave us the option of using a contact they had to come in Sunday after the sale and buy up what was left. We chose that option. We didn't make a lot of money, but we didn't have the time or energy to do it ourselves.
I spent the winter sorting pictures. I gave my brother stuff I thought he'd be interested in and I kept a couple of large totes that I'll go through again myself. The rest are going with me to a family reunion in July for family to take what they want (my mom had a bunch of old family pics, etc.). What they don't want will get pitched. I do have some stuff from my Dad's side to go through, too, but not near as much as from my Mom's side.
I hope your sister decides to do something similar. It's hard, hard, hard. I finally decided that my home is not the family museum and archive and told myself that even if an item was precious to my mom, it's okay to let it go. It's served its purpose by providing her joy and happiness and that purpose has been fulfilled.
Good luck and many hugs.
@beckyliz, thanks and I am sorry about the loss of your Mom. And thanks for sharing about what you are doing.
Sister and I have gone through some photos and did a rough sort. Sister does not want to do anything like having family go through things because, I am told, these same family members didn't want the stuff when grandparents passed, which is why my folks took it all. Not sure that story is completely true but it doesn't matter now. Now they are calling her asking about things but she's mad that they didn't want it before and now that particular can can no longer be kicked down the road, of course, now they want it. This is no surprise to me. My stance is just give it to them if we find it. Get the sorted photos (so far) out to respective family members. My uncle wants his parents' photo albums, I say box it and send it to him, they are sitting in the living room. There's some stuff that can be dealt with now, and save the rest for later.
iris lilies
5-29-18, 2:02pm
@beckyliz, thanks and I am sorry about the loss of your Mom. And thanks for sharing about what you are doing.
Sister and I have gone through some photos and did a rough sort. Sister does not want to do anything like having family go through things because, I am told, these same family members didn't want the stuff when grandparents passed, which is why my folks took it all. Not sure that story is completely true but it doesn't matter now. Now they are calling her asking about things but she's mad that they didn't want it before and now that particular can can no longer be kicked down the road, of course, now they want it. This is no surprise to me. My stance is just give it to them if we find it. Get the sorted photos (so far) out to respective family members. My uncle wants his parents' photo albums, I say box it and send it to him, they are sitting in the living room. There's some stuff that can be dealt with now, and save the rest for later.
aw OP, I can tell that you and
i could work easily together to clear out a parent’s house. Too bad I am not your sister.
aw OP, I can tell that you and i could work easily together to clear out a parent’s house. Too bad I am not your sister.
LOL! I agree. This house thing would have been done already.
After spending years decluttering my own home, I have become pretty ruthless about getting rid of stuff. It shocks DH sometimes. I haven't told him about the major photo purge I did just on our own photos (duplicates, bad shots, the "what is this?" photos, etc.) but he doesn't look at them anyway.
Teacher Terry
5-29-18, 3:01pm
I had to do this a few times and we sold everything ourselves. I didn't see the point of splitting with someone else. I also did this for a good friend when they massively downsized their home. My DH, son and I spent about 4 days getting everything ready and then a 2 day sale. Sold most of it but I know how to price things to sell. Sunday I put half price on everything left.
iris lilies
5-29-18, 6:10pm
At my friend’s estate sale there was an 8’ long antique bookcase, 4’ high, with leaded glass doors. A handsome old thing. But a little odd looking be ause it was of German origin and was in two kinds of wood. The dealer put a price of $2,200 on it.
It weighs a freaking ton.
No one bought it.
And when the time came, my friend could not even give it away. I refused to lift it and haul it around for our charity sale. Fortunately, the last minute solution was successful: the new owner of the house said he would take it, for free of course. So no one had to break their back lifting it.
Teacher Terry
5-29-18, 7:27pm
Il, you are so right that they priced everything way too high.
Il, you are so right that they priced everything way too high.
I have noticed this at estate sales lately, too. Pieces of furniture are priced at antique store prices, which will not work. People go to these sales for bargain, and will not buy even at the 50% on Sunday price offered.
I would price furniture at about 1/3 of what these folks are charging. To start, and be prepared to take less.
I have noticed this at estate sales lately, too. Pieces of furniture are priced at antique store prices, which will not work. People go to these sales for bargain, and will not buy even at the 50% on Sunday price offered.
I would price furniture at about 1/3 of what these folks are charging. To start, and be prepared to take less.
This is good to know. We have a fair number of antiques in the house as my mom was a collector for a number of years plus old furniture from grandparents. Hopefully the estate sale folks my sister got in contact with will price things to sell and not go for the "antique" prices. If we are stuck with them because they don't sell, sis will never just donate them, because they are antiques, belonged to Grandma, etc.
iris lilies
5-30-18, 10:22am
I am, this moment, putting up items on Nextdoor and Craigslist to sell for our Park Conservancy in a presale event. No bites so far.
the estate sale company priced our friend’s dining room set (pressed oak, table and six chairs) at $480 which went to half price on Sunday.
I am pricing it at $225 which is just a tad lower than Sunday’s price. We shall see if there are any bites.
I work with people in the Conservancy who love old china (pretty much worthless) and they price it silly high, and then store it from year to year. Never do they price any of this stuff at a value I think it should go for. Actually, my goal for this stuff is “wholesale” price so that other dealers at the event come by our booth, buy our crap, and cart it down the street to their booth. But this makes my fellow sellers mad. “Do you see how much they are going to get for that item??!!!”
Haha, let them get that price. If they dont, they have to cart the crap home.
Our sale is two days. tWO DAYS, people! Only TWO DAYS to offload it all.
Teacher Terry
5-30-18, 10:50am
I sold a ornate Eastlake double bed for 250 and it took 6 months. So IL you are what I call a realist
flowerseverywhere
5-30-18, 1:03pm
We recently held a quilters garage sale. We all bought stuff in to sell with the intention of using the money to buy batting and backing for charity quilts. Books went for approximately 10% of cover price. Fabric 15-20%. There were a few dozen kits that went for less than 20% of the original price. We had so many leftovers I took home about $1000 worth of quilt store quality fabric, books, unfinished projects and kits if they were new. We could not sell for even 10% of the original price,and people didn’t want them. I am busy making charity quilt tops.
Flowers, when we were buying and selling, hubby made the comment that most women do not want used (previously owned by someone else) things. I have found the same thing at craft/quilters/etc. sales. I personally don't care if new or used, I just want a fantastic price. Our guild charity group gets a huge amount of "stuff" that no one wants. Much of it is amazing.
Collected so much that I now have to say No when someone asks me if I am looking or want their stuff.
We went to several estate sales this weekend, and here is what we bought, if that helps you to figure out what might sell at your parent's sale:
DH bought several boxes of screws for a quarter and he was very pleased. Along same line, I bought some spools of thread for a dime each and some double point knitting needles for 50 cents.
I bought a curtain panel for 2 dollars and went home and cut it in two and replaced the bathroom curtains for summer.
I bought a Stickley type oak rocker (actually a Taylor rocker from Bedford Ohio, oldest continuous chair manufacturer in the country) for 10 dollars. It had been marked 60. It is in rough shape but will make a nice project.
On half price day at one estate sale, bought an Oreck vacuum , with twenty dollars worth of bags and belts, for six dollars. A vintage sled, medium size, for 12 dollars, and a pair of Norwegian wooden cross country skis for ten dollars. They will probably be decorative but they do seem as though one could use them for cross country skiing, if one bought boots.
I walked by many items that seemed overpriced to me. Other people were buying a lot at the estate sale, but were waiting until Saturday for 30% off, and we went back Sunday at 50% off.
One sale had box lots that were not selling to anybody, so they changed the rules that you could put together your own box for five dollars. That is where I got the Stickley type rocker.
People do buy clothes and shoes, which always surprises me, especially used shoes. So you might be able to sell a lot at your estate sale but I would really make everything a bargain, and do it in one day or at most two. You could do Friday full price and Saturday 8-1 half price. People will wait. They also took bids if you wanted something for a lower price and if it did not sell, they would call you. I have seen that lately at all the professionally run sales.
If it is a big house with a lot of stuff, I would seriously hire it out, as they know what they are doing, and you will be spared all of it. I am thinking about this in terms of my parents' house, which we may go through this summer or fall. I would like to get everything out that has sentimental value to any of us, and determine what will come with one of us and what will be sold, and then hire someone to come in and do a massive sale, except it won;t be massive as my mom and dad were emphatically not hoarders (thank God) and most of what they have is books. There is some furniture from my grandparents that I would like to have. There really isn't the fifty years accumulation I see in many of these houses, and we have thrown out much in the way of worn out clothing and stained stuff. But there is probably a week's worth of the siblings going through and dividing up what they do not want sold.
Our problem is my mom and dad are not ready to do this, so there it sits.
Bumping to respond to Tybee's post and say thanks for the heads up on estate sales. My sister had contacted one estate sale company a couple of months ago who advised not to throw anything out, you never know what will sell. She decided not to clear out the basement (thank goodness!) based on their advise as there are a lot of tools, boxes of screws, nails, stuff like that.
However, she's decided to wait on the estate sale and selling the house, so since it's not a priority for her at this point, then I am no longer volunteering to go down and clear out stuff with her like I have before. We have spent nearly 2 years going at this, since before Dad died actually. I pushed to help clean because she was anxious to get it done and put the house up for sale this past spring, but now she's changed her mind. No real reason but she has a tendency to spin all over the map, one day she's focused on one thing, then switches gears with no warning. I suspect because everything else in the estate is taken care of and all is left is the house, it may be hitting her that this is it: this is the house she grew up in and last vestige of the life we had with them and soon it will belong to someone else.
Teacher Terry
7-1-18, 10:42am
It is costing your sister money to hold onto the house. We always do it ourselves because professionals take a big cut of the profits and charge too much for the items so they don’t sell. I have done this 4x’s and with 2 people working all day things go pretty fast.
Bumping for an update again. Now it's Fall when sister said she would get a move on doing the estate sale and still no action taken as far as I know. I say "as far as I know" because sister is not communicating that much with me in spite of my reaching out to her and she is pretty much ignoring my out-of-state sister due to an issue (personal, nothing to do with estate) between them that I am staying out of. So the house is still sitting empty though she might be proceeding with her "house fixes" not advising either of us because she knows we will disagree. Well, she would be right about how we feel about the fixes if that's the case.
At this point, my stance is that she has a plan that she is actively executing (and communicates) and then we will have a discussion on how I can help her. Already, several "plans" have been abandoned because she constantly changes her mind, which has wasted a lot of mine and out of state sister's time.
I pretty much earmarked time to help sister this year but going forward, I think my time is going to be a lot more limited. I am pretty frustrated and sad 1) because this weekend marks one year since Dad passed and 2) nothing substantial has happened with the house. I honestly thought we would at least have the house cleaned out and on the market by now. I wouldn't have been concerned if no sale yet, just that having it ready for sale would have been progress all things considered.
I am getting contacted by family members inquiring about items they would like. A lot of the stuff belonged to our grandparents, and they would like grandma and grandpa's photo albums or grandpa's clock or the Name a Star star chart showing the star named after Grandma. Stuff like that, nothing that's greedy. And they report they have reached out to sister about genuinely wanting these things as momentoes and are getting put off or not getting responses.
Teacher Terry
10-17-18, 2:16pm
Well that’s terrible. Can she decide alone to spend money from the estate to fix the house or does it need to be the 3 of you? Better to sell the house as is. IL, posted a story about someone losing money by doing that.
Well that’s terrible. Can she decide alone to spend money from the estate to fix the house or does it need to be the 3 of you? Better to sell the house as is. IL, posted a story about someone losing money by doing that.
Yes, she can make the decisions herself, it was not set up to involve all 3 of us. I remember IL's story and it's why I have cautioned my sister not to do these fixes. There's no lien on the house for any nursing home care, but I have told her given the state of the house, it's not worth replacing the kitchen floor, or replacing the bathroom vanity or doing all the "things Mom wanted and didn't get done" which is a purely emotional and irrational decision IMHO. She doesn't want to hear that instead we may have to pay for fixes identified upon home inspection (who knows what those will be considering there's a lot of deferred maintenance on the house) so money should be held for that instead.
It's a neighborhood with a lot of old bungalows that are being bought, the interiors being completely torn out and rebuilt from inside. In some cases, the houses are torn down entirely. She doesn't want to hear that any new work we do could be torn out as soon as the sale paperwork is signed.
Teacher Terry
10-17-18, 3:11pm
If you sell “as is” you don’t make any repairs before closing. The inspection is just a tool to let buyers know what they are facing once they close. We bought our last house this way. If the house money is to be split among the 3 of you she is wasting all of your money. This really is awful since you have no say in it. Talk about designed to create family fights. Ugh!
iris lilies
10-17-18, 4:32pm
Our situation has changed a bit, although nothing is critical yet. DH’s father Is now in a nursing home and his house which sits on a farm that has many outbuildings all of which have 50 years accumulation of stuff Will have to be dealt with at some point.
I am not excited about this. Ha ha understatement. I am worried that at about the time that we will be downsizing to one house instead of two, DH will clear his dad‘s home along with his siblings and will come home with crap tons of the stuff. Oh joy, more Swiss cowbells and Swiss pictures of the family Homestead and Lederhosen and etc. etc.I am not clear what one is supposed to do with Swiss cowbells anyway.
He is there right now picking apples from his dad’s orchard because we cannot have too many apples! We have an entire refrigerator in our basement that holds apples. I did suggest to him that if his dad’s kitchen has a small mixing bowl or two to please bring Those home with him, but he is chary about that because he doesn’t want to start stripping his dads house of stuff without the knowledge of his siblings. And that is perfectly fine and perfectly reasonable. So I guess I will buy mixing bowls when I see them at Goodwill.
Because his dad’s farm is actively farmed by DH’s brother, and the brother is there every day to take care of farm animals, we know someone is looking after the place. But at some point it will be a giant PITA to deal with all of that. Fortunately the sister who is in charge of the estate is very practical and she values her family time at her own house which is out of state, so I do not anticipate That we will have to fuss over every tiny thing in that house. I imagine she will just want to get it sold
SteveinMN
10-17-18, 5:37pm
I am not clear what one is supposed to do with Swiss cowbells anyway.
Why, play them, of course!
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/more-cowbell-with-will-ferrell-on-snl-video-saturday-night-live-nbc/3506001
Oh joy, more Swiss cowbells and Swiss pictures of the family Homestead and Lederhosen and etc. etc.I am not clear what one is supposed to do with Swiss cowbells anyway.
LOL'd at this one.
Because his dad’s farm is actively farmed by DH’s brother, and the brother is there every day to take care of farm animals, we know someone is looking after the place. But at some point it will be a giant PITA to deal with all of that. Fortunately the sister who is in charge of the estate is very practical and she values her family time at her own house which is out of state, so I do not anticipate That we will have to fuss over every tiny thing in that house. I imagine she will just want to get it sold
Having someone around makes a big difference. Out of state sister and I both worry that the house will be broken into or vandalized one of these days. I decided that if that happens, I am leaving She Who Cannot Be Argued And Who Knows It All With to deal with it as I would consider it a consequence of her own making and could have been avoided.
Too bad, IL, that we can't clone your sister in law's spirit so she can take over the body of my sister. Your SIL is exactly what we need.
iris lilies
10-17-18, 6:43pm
Why, play them, of course!
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/more-cowbell-with-will-ferrell-on-snl-video-saturday-night-live-nbc/3506001
Ok then, we will Explore the Space!
SteveinMN
10-18-18, 8:05am
Ok then, we will Explore the Space!
:+1:
IL, I had to laugh at the mixing bowl conundrum. We have the same issue going on with my parent's house. No one wants to take anything but we need to to prepare for when it is emptied. But nobody wants to upset my parents, and more significantly, no one wants to lose the way they lived in the house--their things are so them, and we miss them so much in that house.
I took a little silver pitcher that my mom won playing tennis and polished it up and it is sitting with a bouquet of roses that were going to get snowed on from the garden--the last roses of summer.
Take the mixing bowls. If the brothers want them later, give them to them. But it will feel really good for DH to use their mixing bowls.
My husband took some blue jeans and an LL Bean jacket. It makes us all feel closer to them, and that their things are going to good use.
catherine
10-18-18, 9:05am
My husband took some blue jeans and an LL Bean jacket. It makes us all feel closer to them, and that their things are going to good use.
As I've mentioned, my mother had nothing to speak of when she died. We took all her clothes and put them in a bag for Goodwill, but I saved her emerald green reversible rain slicker, and every time I wear it (which I still do, 20 years after her death) I feel her presence.
As I've mentioned, my mother had nothing to speak of when she died. We took all her clothes and put them in a bag for Goodwill, but I saved her emerald green reversible rain slicker, and every time I wear it (which I still do, 20 years after her death) I feel her presence.
How lovely!
Teacher Terry
10-19-18, 6:38pm
That's cool CAtherine.
As I've mentioned, my mother had nothing to speak of when she died. We took all her clothes and put them in a bag for Goodwill, but I saved her emerald green reversible rain slicker, and every time I wear it (which I still do, 20 years after her death) I feel her presence.
That slicker sounds so cool, catherine!
My grandmother had this awesome green velveteen coat with big covered buttons. I got the coat after she went into a care facility and my mom, aunt and uncle had to clean out her apartment. The coat was pretty worn in places so I didn't wear it but when she died, I made a small pillow of that velvet fabric to be placed in her vault. I put one of those big buttons in the middle of the cushion and we pinned her favorite pins on it.
Lovely to read about these gentle memories.
Teacher Terry
10-22-18, 1:42pm
S, that’s so awesome!
Bumping for update. As of today, nothing has been done with the house since last May. Though sister who is executor said she would start working on getting an estate sale going last fall, nothing has happened. Nor has there been any communication from her regarding the estate. On other things but not the estate. Youngest sister and I are done chasing her down for information.
However, youngest sister has reached out to the attorney regarding the lack of action and communication. I learned from her a few days ago that she sent a letter but has not yet received a response. I am not sure if she will get one considering she is not his client but since she asked the attorney to reach out to executor sister on this issue, I suppose he may do that. I expect all hell to break loose if that happens. Things are very tense between the sisters, some of it is over the estate but there are other issues that have been bubbling under the surface for years and it all came out after Dad passed away.
She has asked me to send a letter as well to backup her concerns. Not sure if I should or not. Frankly, I have been waiting for things to get to the point that sister finds it too inconvenient to hold on to the house and that will finally get things going. I don't want my sister to run into problems but I am afraid that is what it will take.
Simplemind
1-28-19, 2:28pm
It was very clearly stated in our trust paperwork that I had a legal responsibility to take action and get the most value for everything I was selling. If I didn't my siblings could take action against me. I took that seriously. My sister wanted to drag her feet and do the estate sale ourselves. I knew it would never ever get done. All items in the house were vulnerable while the house stood empty. Even though they weren't thrilled at paying for somebody else to do the sale I still convinced we ended up with more than had we done it ourselves. My brother would not come out to assist, my sister lasted two hours and left in tears, my DH and I lasted day and night all four days.
We are having our trust done now and it is critical to us to choose the right child who will do the right thing. You have to do things that you don't feel like doing. You have to do things that might cause hurt feelings and questioning. I'm thankful we were able to have many family meetings before my dad's dementia fully set in and as we were caring for him before he died. So thankful the house and contents were gone by then. Can't imagine dealing with all of that while grieving.
It was very clearly stated in our trust paperwork that I had a legal responsibility to take action and get the most value for everything I was selling. If I didn't my siblings could take action against me. I took that seriously. My sister wanted to drag her feet and do the estate sale ourselves.
Just to play devil's advocate, how was the task worded? Could Sister have been dragging her feet because she felt an estate sale without the expense of a third party managing it was the way to get the highest value for everything and she just hadn't gotten around to her part in it? When you look at most of the stuff sold at estate sales, very little of it (IME) has a value that will fluctuate greatly depending on being sold a few weeks or months earlier or later.
Never having been through this process (beyond the property agreement in my divorce, which did not require anything to be sold) I'm curious how that is specified in light of competing priorities and demands.
iris lilies
1-28-19, 2:51pm
Bumping for update. As of today, nothing has been done with the house since last May. Though sister who is executor said she would start working on getting an estate sale going last fall, nothing has happened. Nor has there been any communication from her regarding the estate. On other things but not the estate. Youngest sister and I are done chasing her down for information.
However, youngest sister has reached out to the attorney regarding the lack of action and communication. I learned from her a few days ago that she sent a letter but has not yet received a response. I am not sure if she will get one considering she is not his client but since she asked the attorney to reach out to executor sister on this issue, I suppose he may do that. I expect all hell to break loose if that happens. Things are very tense between the sisters, some of it is over the estate but there are other issues that have been bubbling under the surface for years and it all came out after Dad passed away.
She has asked me to send a letter as well to backup her concerns. Not sure if I should or not. Frankly, I have been waiting for things to get to the point that sister finds it too inconvenient to hold on to the house and that will finally get things going. I don't want my sister to run into problems but I am afraid that is what it will take.
How much is coming out of the estate to maintain this property? It HAS to be costing something.
I see this over and over and over. In a neighborhood close to ours are two houses that sit across the street from each other. I wanted to buy one of them badly. I sent letters to the out-of-state owners every six months. This was about year 2003. I watched as vandals broke into the garage and set up living quarters there. I notified the out-of-state owners. They would come to town periodically, wander around, Pile a few things into their truck and take off home. Finally, one of their relatives moved into the little house I wanted and immediately started cleaning it up. She even let me in to look at it it was a great little property and I wish I could’ve bought it because it hadn’t side yard for gardening and then it had a vacant lot next to it that I could’ve purchased. Anyway I am happy that she got this property because she is good for that block, it is a block that struggles. But the house across the street is still Empty after at least 15 years. They have missed one real estate run up, and could probably sell it now for a nice amount, but there doesn’t seem to be any action.
People are just paralyzed by the huge job of liquidating Estates. I do not know why it is so damn difficult, let me at it I can get it done!
My father-in-law’s estate will take a while to settle. His eldest daughter is in charge and she is telling everyone that it’s not going to be settled until the year 2020 which seems reasonable to me. She has a realistic view of what the house-only is worth (practically nothing) but there is farmland that has value. Someone is at this house several times a day, so it is not looking vacant.
It was very clearly stated in our trust paperwork that I had a legal responsibility to take action and get the most value for everything I was selling. If I didn't my siblings could take action against me. I took that seriously. My sister wanted to drag her feet and do the estate sale ourselves. I knew it would never ever get done. All items in the house were vulnerable while the house stood empty. Even though they weren't thrilled at paying for somebody else to do the sale I still convinced we ended up with more than had we done it ourselves. My brother would not come out to assist, my sister lasted two hours and left in tears, my DH and I lasted day and night all four days.
In our case, there is a trust and a will, set up by my folks years before they passed. I have never seen copies of either so have no idea what exactly is specified. I am working on getting a copy of the will through the county but the trust paperwork is solely in my sister's hands.
My sister has to be aware that as an executor, she could be legally liable for the estate losing value but thinks that neither one of us would ever take action. Maybe knowing my sister has written the attorney might send the message that she might not be off the hook if she messes this up.
How much is coming out of the estate to maintain this property? It HAS to be costing something.
@iris lilies, minimal utilities are still on: gas for heat, electric and water. Landscaping company maintain the lawns and yard during the summer months, however they might be doing snow removal as well. There's been one round of property taxes paid last year and 2018 taxes are due this spring (2 installments). There are two plots, one on which the house sits and the small side yard which is smaller so taxes are significantly lower on that one.
The seller's marked in the area last year was pretty good but there are rumblings that this year might not be so good.
I don't understand why sister is sitting on this, willing to pay the costs. Besides being the executor, she is also a beneficiary so she's opting to get less for herself. Furthermore, when she was in charge of our parents' finances (she had financial POA) the first thing she did was review and slash the costs. Stressed out about Dad running out of money. And yet, she's willing to pay to sit on the house? Boggles my mind. There's something else going on and I suspect it has to do with the issues between her and my youngest sister. Youngest sister has complained about the estate being "held hostage".
Teacher Terry
1-28-19, 3:43pm
I can liquidate and have a entire house empty in a few weeks. If people can’t do it timely they need to hire someone.
I can liquidate and have a entire house empty in a few weeks. If people can’t do it timely they need to hire someone.
AT this point, there's still so much left in the house and considering the lack of action taken, sister will need to hire someone to help empty it. We could have had the house completely empty by now, even if not on the market, had we continued working through last year. I was planning to spend a lot of time working with sister on this only to have her put the brakes on the whole operation. So now, once she gets moving, she will need various services to empty, clean and sell what's in the house. I have come to realize that this "we have to do this ourselves" insistence only gives her room to stall when she wants to, or change her mind when she wants to.
As it is, I have spent close to two years helping her clean out this place and this is where we are at after all that work.
Teacher Terry
1-28-19, 4:14pm
S, that’s sad and I understand why your other sister is running out of patience.
Simplemind
1-29-19, 12:29pm
I would also assume that she will collect a fee as executor/trustee. The longer she stretches this out the higher the fee will be for her unless you challenge it showing she wasn't doing anything to earn it. The attorney advised me to record time/effort and charge $30 an hour. I had that available at any time my dad or siblings wanted an accounting of what was going on. After all was said and done, the attorney sat down with my siblings and said when he advised me he had no idea how much work it was going to take. Had he known he would have advised 1% of the value of the estate per each year until everything was sold. That ended up being considerably more than the rate of $30 an hour BUT thankfully my sister and brother knew how much work my husband (who didn't get paid) and I did and didn't contest it.
I would also assume that she will collect a fee as executor/trustee. The longer she stretches this out the higher the fee will be for her unless you challenge it showing she wasn't doing anything to earn it. The attorney advised me to record time/effort and charge $30 an hour. I had that available at any time my dad or siblings wanted an accounting of what was going on. After all was said and done, the attorney sat down with my siblings and said when he advised me he had no idea how much work it was going to take. Had he known he would have advised 1% of the value of the estate per each year until everything was sold. That ended up being considerably more than the rate of $30 an hour BUT thankfully my sister and brother knew how much work my husband (who didn't get paid) and I did and didn't contest it.
I knew she could collect a fee but wasn't aware that there could be an advantage to getting a higher fee the longer this goes on. Perhaps now with my other sister writing the attorney, he might get an inkling that nothing is being done and that might come back to bite when the final accounting is done. Whether I contest it will depend on the final outcome and fast this resolves.
Right now we are facing down record cold in the next couple of days, both youngest sister and myself are worried about how the empty house will fare during that time. Not just frozen pipes but also the risk of break-in from anyone desperate to get out of the cold. And btw, both of us has expressed these concerns earlier to no avail.
She may be allowed a fee, however, she's also a fiduciary, which means she has a duty of loyalty and a duty of care to the beneficiaries. Presumably, that includes wrapping things up as soon as possible in the most economical way.
Well, another update. This one may be good in some ways but not in others. Youngest sister who wrote attorney outlining her concerns received a response from him. Basically she was copied on the letter attorney sent to executor sister advising that he received this letter from her sister, which was attached, and he recommended she see him to review the estate.
Neither youngest sister or myself have yet heard from executor sister but imagine she's pretty mad, but I fervently hope she takes her attorney's advice and meets him. I have my concerns she might double down instead, in which case I will be the one to take legal action.
The good news is that executor sister might just get moving, the bad news that likely the relationship with youngest sister is negatively impacted possibly beyond any hope of reconciliation. They have had some issues in their relationship that have been brewing for some time and certain things occurred between them shortly after my father's death that youngest sister and her husband considered going too far. I have stayed out of the whole fray but have been there for youngest sister to cry and vent.
Looks this is now for the Family Relationships forum rather than Organizing.
Teacher Terry
2-18-19, 12:22pm
That’s sad but at this point I don’t blame her for wanting the estate settled.
That’s sad but at this point I don’t blame her for wanting the estate settled.
I don't blame her either, both of us have waited long enough. To be honest, I had been considering what actions to take in order to speed things up, including possible legal action. However, my primary concern was the repercussions to relationships, I have to consider that. Youngest sister has a history of not wanting to rock the boat, she often had trouble standing up for herself and sticking with it in the face of pushback from family. She also tended to side with executor sister in conflicts, leaving me the odd man out. It's bad enough to risk the relationship with one sister but I could not bring myself to risk both. That she did this, by herself, is a huge change for her.
Simplemind
2-18-19, 3:01pm
Today my sister (now co-trustee that my dad has passed) is picking up the last few items from the consignment shop and Wednesday we go to do my dad final tax return. Once taxes are paid the rest of the funds can be distributed. I am thankful that even though there were some strong emotions everybody walked through this process feeling as good as possible. We are stronger now than we ever were when our parents were alive playing favorites. Totally unexpected based on past behavior. I watched them change considerably knowing the financial safety net was gone and they were now truly on their own.
Bumping for a quick update.
MS finally waved the white flag on insisting we do more cleaning and contracted with an estate sale company with my input, er, very strong encouragement. Keys were just turned over to estate sale folks a couple of days ago with the sale scheduled in August. It will take 4 weeks for them to sort through what is in their words "an abundance of items".
Went down to house one last time over the weekend to get the Mission style tiffany lamp plus managed to get MS to agree on me taking another smaller one at the last minute.
MS is still stressing over some artwork that my folks bought that she's convinced are worth some money, even though there is no secondary market after calling around. To sell on consignment means driving them to the one place who may try to sell them but it's a distance away and she doesn't want to do that. Estate folks have indicated they probably won't really sell or if they do it won't be much. I told her to just put it in estate sale and be done with it, she made a reasonable effort now just let them go. I was concerned she would put the brakes on the sale over this issue but fortunately she didn't do it.
I am just relieved that there will be no more cleanouts, constantly hauling crap to Goodwill, sneezing for a week afterward because of all the dust. DH went with me last weekend and within a half hour needed to get out of there, being in the basement nearly did him in. I have been keeping him out of all the family stuff including cleaning out the home, this is the first time he got to see just what me and siblings have been dealing with.
With this, I turn to being more ruthless in cleaning out my own home. I have been doing a lot of purging over the years and there's a lot more space than when we moved in 23 years ago but I can still identify areas that still need work.
Thanks to everyone for input and bearing with me on this home cleaning saga. I hope to never do it again.
Glad the closing is getting closer.
Teacher Terry
7-9-19, 6:19pm
Glad you are coming to the end.
Great news for you! The end is drawing near.
iris lilies
7-9-19, 9:08pm
Progress, good. Still have quite a ways to go though it’s gonna be at least another year I would think. That’s ridiculous this is been more than two years like 2 1/2 years.
Progress, good. Still have quite a ways to go though it’s gonna be at least another year I would think. That’s ridiculous this is been more than two years like 2 1/2 years.
It could be another year but I sure hope not. MS has complained about all the work so maybe telling her she's asking for another winter of running back and forth to shovel the sidewalks (they have to cleared 24 hours after a snowfall) and why in hell does she want to do it again. Because she's on her own with that, I live too far away.
It will be 2 years this October that Dad passed away. Though the cleanout efforts commenced 3 years ago because MS badgered Dad into allowing it. I knew it would be a PITA in any case but MS's handling of things has needlessly dragged things out.
MS finally consulted a realtor last week before the estate sale folks moved in. The house has to be empty before it can be listed but she got some recommendations on what fixes can be made, namely a coat of paint and some fixture replacements. MS tells me they will be done as soon as estate sale is completed, it is scheduled in one month. I am hopeful but not exactly counting on that as MS manages to complicate every step and is still hung up on the value of some items, namely some artwork my parents bought and she thinks has more value that it really has. If anything is left in the house, she will fixate on what to do with those things delaying any repairs or listing the house. The estate sale is already listed as "everything must go" and I hope that is the case. We are already looking at the end of the selling season in a couple of months. I think the house could still sell but it has to be put on the market pronto, no more dilly dallying.
iris lilies
7-11-19, 5:42pm
It could be another year but I sure hope not. MS has complained about all the work so maybe telling her she's asking for another winter of running back and forth to shovel the sidewalks (they have to cleared 24 hours after a snowfall) and why in hell does she want to do it again. Because she's on her own with that, I live too far away.
It will be 2 years this October that Dad passed away. Though the cleanout efforts commenced 3 years ago because MS badgered Dad into allowing it. I knew it would be a PITA in any case but MS's handling of things has needlessly dragged things out.
MS finally consulted a realtor last week before the estate sale folks moved in. The house has to be empty before it can be listed but she got some recommendations on what fixes can be made, namely a coat of paint and some fixture replacements. MS tells me they will be done as soon as estate sale is completed, it is scheduled in one month. I am hopeful but not exactly counting on that as MS manages to complicate every step and is still hung up on the value of some items, namely some artwork my parents bought and she thinks has more value that it really has. If anything is left in the house, she will fixate on what to do with those things delaying any repairs or listing the house. The estate sale is already listed as "everything must go" and I hope that is the case. We are already looking at the end of the selling season in a couple of months. I think the house could still sell but it has to be put on the market pronto, no more dilly dallying.
I wish you luck with estate sale.If I am understanding you correctly the “everything must go” is an announcement to the public. They dont care. I hope you have an agreement with someone to haul the leftovers away.
I wish you luck with estate sale.If I am understanding you correctly the “everything must go” is an announcement to the public. They dont care. I hope you have an agreement with someone to haul the leftovers away.
The "everything must go" is in the public announcement though I know that won't likely happen. There will be stuff left, just a matter of how much.
As far as the leftovers, MS put it in the contract that anything left is not to be hauled off automatically so no agreement on that. I pushed her to allow for things to be automatically junked or donated to no avail. She wants to know what's left which is my next concern: depending on what's left she will get caught up on finding sellers. She already mentioned trying to sell leftovers on Craigslist, the estate sale guy was telling her "do you want a life?" I told her it was not worth it, I shut down my own Ebay account for that reason.
Ultralight
7-11-19, 6:08pm
To all of you cleaning out parents' homes I wish you the best of luck. You are doing tough work -- whether your parents are in the homes or not.
Teacher Terry
7-11-19, 6:58pm
I helped my mom clear out our house with 30 years of stuff stored in the basement. Not a hoarder at all but kept the stuff we outgrew through the years. It was fun because we did it together over 2 years. We had a bunch of moving sales. They wanted to move to a apartment. My MIL was a hoarder but only lived in a 2 bedroom trailer. She died unexpectedly but I was only 53 so easier than it would be now at my age. I have helped friends do the big clean out also.
The estate sale company that did my mom's sale cleared out everything that was left over. They asked us if it was ok to allow one of their contacts to come in and take what was left. We emphatically answered YES.
Simplemind
7-12-19, 4:04pm
The gal that did our estate sale worked with a charity that came and took everything, left us a clean house a receipt and a the key. I was so relieved.
Update: the estate sale was a two day sale this past weekend. We found a reputable local company that did an excellent job of staging the sale from what I could see in online photos. According to MS, about half of the items sold. Now it's clearing out the rest, I will take a couple of items that "survived" the sale, send some to YS, some larger items like furniture will be donated (looking at Habitat for Humanity, smaller items are headed to Goodwill) and the rest will be hauled away. The estate sale company could have taken out everything but MS wanted to know what was left before they sent the haulers in.
Trying to talk her out of trying to sell the framed prints that she still thinks will go for money on eBay but as long as she takes them out of the house so it can be listed for sale, she can have at it. I have told her that if anything did not go in the estate sale, with the considerable marketing done by the company that handled it, that it will likely not sell any other means. But again, the next thing is listing the house and she has had a realtor to look at it, finally.
Honestly, it's not that I don't think I'm going to get some thorny issues with inheritable stuff (already getting grumblings via gossip that one of my kids thinks my renting to DS#1 is a bad move)... but I am very glad I disposed of 2+ tons of stuff, which should cut back on SOME grumbling at some point.
When I had expressed to DH that I wanted to get rid of everything so it wouldn't be difficult for the kids, he essentially said "F the kids"--I think it was harder on him to dispose of all the stuff we did.
I figure if I can get through the next 20 years more or less of life without re-accumulating stuff, that's a great thing. If I keep my footprint small, maybe the kids will decide to keep this house in VT as a family get-away, or maybe they'll sell it. I just REALLY don't want them to stress over the minutiae of figurines and knick-knacks and furniture that means something to me but to no-one else. My DS#2 did take an old dresser that was my great-aunts, and I hope he enjoys it and isn't taking it out of some sense of family loyalty.
My mother dying with nothing gave me a profound message that the stuff we cling to just ain't worth it.
I just REALLY don't want them to stress over the minutiae of figurines and knick-knacks and furniture that means something to me but to no-one else.
Dealing with the many things that meant something to my parents, or my grandparents, even great grandparents (yep my folks kept everything and were too willing to let the house become the family storage unit) took the most time, stress and more importantly, far too much life energy, to be worth it. I had to be very particular on what I brought in because I already have spent years downsizing stuff, I like having more space, and the prospect of moving out of our home seems less daunting.
We don't have kids, so no concerns about who gets what, but this experience with dealing with generations of stuff has renewed my energies as far as downsizing, something that I have been doing, albeit gradually, for many years now. I am far more ruthless on what I will keep or toss including stuff taken on out of family obligation.
DH's parents are still living but when the time comes, he swears up and down, he will not go through what I did. Fortunately his folks have a lot less stuff than mine did, due to a flood in their basement years ago. SIL is a packrat, so DH's plan is to let her take whatever she wants, and if their house needs to be sold (assuming they stay and not go into assisted living), get estate sale in there ASAP, chuck the rest, list the house, done.
iris lilies
8-13-19, 5:54pm
I just had an idle thought * hit me as I read these last couple of posts: how do you know all this stuff meant anything to your parents or grandparents? I can’t believe that every single thing in their house had “meaning. That’s just not the way we all live. We all keep crap out of ennui, For the most part.
* Do you want to know what the dictation software wrote for “Idle thought“? What it wrote: auto fart.
Hilarious
We had friends who kept numerous storage units of mostly deceased relative's household "crap" because "the kids will need it to start out, etc.". Well, not a single child wanted a single thing of their parents. Three of them moved to the West coast to work in Silicon Valley and one was transient due to education (Chemistry PHd and postgrad work). None could be or needed to be weighed down with crap. Parents finally cleaned out the storage units but years of payments were made on those units.
iris lilies
8-13-19, 11:40pm
We had friends who kept numerous storage units of mostly deceased relative's household "crap" because "the kids will need it to start out, etc.". Well, not a single child wanted a single thing of their parents. Three of them moved to the West coast to work in Silicon Valley and one was transient due to education (Chemistry PHd and postgrad work). None could be or needed to be weighed down with crap. Parents finally cleaned out the storage units but years of payments were made on those units.
Isn’t it crazy when people do that? The millions and billions of dollars pumping into our economy to store dumb useless junk it’s just astonishing.
That's why I bought stock in storage REITs.
I was actually thinking of getting one for my dad, so we can bring some of his stuff up to where he lives now, and he can still have it.
It's probably a crazy idea.
but I am not looking forward to trying to get rid of everything down there, and at least it would give us a destination for a few things that seem to matter to sibs, and there are a few things like that.
Teacher Terry
8-14-19, 11:34am
Only one person I know had storage units and when he was dying we had to empty them for him and one of his other friends helped. He paid on it for years for nothing valuable.
Only one person I know had storage units and when he was dying we had to empty them for him and one of his other friends helped. He paid on it for years for nothing valuable.
For my dad, the idea was to move a small percentage of his goods and papers and books up to where he is now living, and put them in storage there rather than using his house and barn for storage, so we call see the house.
I have a storage unit. I've had up to 3. When it was at its worst, I had just closed the bookstore. I just arranged to rent space for one month, in September, to have a GOB sale, last hurrah sale, whatever you want to call it.
Six people got the email. One isn't coming. Another isn't coming because he's across the country! That leaves 4 people. I mentioned it to one other. Invite only sale. After it's done? Salvation Army or the local library will get a sizable book donation, or maybe both. I'm done. And this doesn't address the books in our attic, our kitchen, our living room or bedroom.
My dad met my mom because she sold him books; he collected books. I met my husband because I rented a 2 bedroom house -- was going to have a library. Got a short term roommate instead (he'd lost his summer job because he wouldn't do crap work on a construction job). We've been married 30+ years. His family are packrats too.
I'm more than ready to be done. Now all I have to do is figure out how to do it without the F'n panic attacks that I get with it. . . . Details, details!
I just had an idle thought * hit me as I read these last couple of posts: how do you know all this stuff meant anything to your parents or grandparents? I can’t believe that every single thing in their house had “meaning. That’s just not the way we all live. We all keep crap out of ennui, For the most part.
* Do you want to know what the dictation software wrote for “Idle thought“? What it wrote: auto fart.
Hilarious
@IL, that is hilarious!
But seriously, you do have a point about stuff having meaning, particularly all of it. No way can all of it have meaning, maybe some, but not all. Honestly not sure where it comes from. I guess it might come out of family lore, for example, Grandma collected a lot of Hummels, it was her thing, it meant something to her and that gets applied to everything Grandma owned. More likely, and what I think, it comes from the guilt surrounding getting rid of it or even thinking about it.
mschrisgo2
8-16-19, 3:51pm
In my experience, the things that have real meaning: the sugar bowl that sat on Aunt Mary’s kitchen table for 50 years, and the cake plate Grandma used for birthday cakes. The rest of the “matching” dishes? Meh, they can go.
But there is this notion that “sets need to be kept together” I think because they were collected piece by piece, and there was satisfaction in having completed the set. Then guilt at breaking it up ensues.
iris lilies
11-30-19, 11:50am
I constantly think about where things will fit in our Hermann house, and one big area of concern is all of my flower show “stuff.” Currently it occupies an area 10’ x 10’ in our current basement.
DH gets to control the entire basement of our Hermann house when we move there. I offered him that in exchange for me having complete control of decor and possessions on the first floor. Seems reasonable to me! I will never go down the basement there.
Anyway, it just occured to me that I can rent a storage space in Hermann for my flower show supplies since none of them need climate control. We do have enough land to set up a storage shed for just the flower show junk, but that may not happen right away. I have always thought that storage units are really silly, but now in my old age if they relieve some pressure I’m going to take advantage of them.
In Hermann there is a storage facility half a mile from our house.
catherine
11-30-19, 12:10pm
I constantly think about where things will fit in our Hermann house, and one big area of concern is all of my flower show “stuff.” Currently it occupies an area 10’ x 10’ in our current basement.
DH gets to control the entire basement of our Hermann house when we move there. I offered him that in exchange for me having complete control of decor and possessions on the first floor. Seems reasonable to me! I will never go down the basement there.
Anyway, it just occured to me that I can rent a storage space in Hermann for my flower show supplies since none of them need climate control. We do have enough land to set up a storage shed for just the flower show junk, but that may not happen right away. I have always thought that storage units are really silly, but now in my old age if they relieve some pressure I’m going to take advantage of them.
In Hermann there is a storage facility half a mile from our house.
I would go that route. If I didn't have my NJ garage that my son has allocated to me, I'd have brought stuff up here and stored it. I have a half-garage full of stuff I was "not able to emotionally detach from yet"--a phrase DH constantly derides me with. Sorry. I didn't want to be in the position of realizing I need a house twice as large and then I've given up some of the things I loved from my previous stuff, like heirlooms and expensive antiques that I'd have just given away.
I think when we downsize we have to recognize that we are choosing a much smaller living area, and so the $100/mo it might cost to store stuff off-site is better than the hundreds of dollars per sq ft you probably would have had to pay for the house, just for the storage.
But building an outbuilding at some point is great, especially if your stuff doesn't need climate control. DH and I have a "man-shed" and a "she-shed"--he keeps his tools and lawn stuff in his and I keep my planting stuff and kitchen equipment that I rarely use, as well as Costco surpluses and party plates and cups. I love my she-shed. Ours is a simple 10x 10, and I have shelving in there. It works great.
ToomuchStuff
11-30-19, 12:25pm
I really is after the time of the year, when Lowe's, Costco, etc. sell their store demo sheds, but I would certainly keep my eye out. Figure out how long you plan on renting a storage unit, then what a shed would cost. Also, what about shelving in the garage?
Teacher Terry
11-30-19, 12:27pm
Catherine, I think you were smart for keeping some of your stuff in case you decide not to stay in the tiny house. Our house came with a huge shed to hold DH’s junk that he wouldn’t part with.
iris lilies
11-30-19, 2:47pm
I really is after the time of the year, when Lowe's, Costco, etc. sell their store demo sheds, but I would certainly keep my eye out. Figure out how long you plan on renting a storage unit, then what a shed would cost. Also, what about shelving in the garage?
I will not be allowed any space in the garage other than, perhaps, one workbench a few feet long and storage under that.
The garage is The Man’s area, didnt ya know that? Haha.
ToomuchStuff
11-30-19, 3:45pm
I will not be allowed any space in the garage other than, perhaps, one workbench a few feet long and storage under that.
The garage is The Man’s area, didnt ya know that? Haha.
Knew a family where the wife did all the oil changes/car maintenance, etc. The husband was worthless on those.
Also known several situations, where things like Gorilla shelving was used, and seldom used stuff was up high, kids stuff was lower, and things like jack stands, floor jacks, etc. was on the bottom.
I would much rather a big shed with garage and woodworking space, with a small home, but don't want another mortgage, at least until I find the spot.
happystuff
11-30-19, 8:29pm
For me, personally, a storage unit just never made sense. If I want the "stuff", if it has value to me, I find a place for it in my home. If I don't value it enough to have it around me, I don't need to keep it.
iris lilies
11-30-19, 10:32pm
For me, personally, a storage unit just never made sense. If I want the "stuff", if it has value to me, I find a place for it in my home. If I don't value it enough to have it around me, I don't need to keep it.
The Flower show “stuff “are my tools. There are 50-60 containers and bins of dried plant materials as well as wooden things and metal things and round things and oddly shaped thrift store finds and odd bits that I use in making Floral designs for flower shows. Oh yeah and dishes and placemats and etc for the table classes. They aren’t things for display although certainly I can display some of them on shelves in my house, I just dont.
One main reason I love my hobby of flower show competitions is that I don’t have to keep a creation permanently. I can put it together, put it in the show, take a photograph, and bring it home and dismantle it. I think about how limiting it would be if I was painting a canvas I would have to keep the canvas around. Or, I suppose I could paint over it. What a bore to have to keep every creation I ever made, They would fill up my house so fast it wouldn’t be funny.
happystuff
12-1-19, 11:30am
The Flower show “stuff “are my tools. There are 50-60 containers and bins of dried plant materials as well as wooden things and metal things and round things and oddly shaped thrift store finds and odd bits that I use in making Floral designs for flower shows. Oh yeah and dishes and placemats and etc for the table classes. They aren’t things for display although certainly I can display some of them on shelves in my house, I just dont.
One main reason I love my hobby of flower show competitions is that I don’t have to keep a creation permanently. I can put it together, put it in the show, take a photograph, and bring it home and dismantle it. I think about how limiting it would be if I was painting a canvas I would have to keep the canvas around. Or, I suppose I could paint over it. What a bore to have to keep every creation I ever made, They would fill up my house so fast it wouldn’t be funny.
Then a storage unit works for you - congrats! Nice to see people who find something they can truly love.
saguaro, after reading all of your posts in this thread, which is a few years old now, I wonder if you would reflect on what you would do differently from the start? For instance, would you have set a bolder line with your sister and perhaps not done any of the physical cleaning out? And what about your father, would you perhaps have suggested moving him somewhere safe so that you didn't have to keep creating a safe space for him in the house? I believe these reflections would be useful to others finding themselves in similar situations, particularly since you were kind enough to continue updating your progress on the situation.
saguaro, after reading all of your posts in this thread, which is a few years old now, I wonder if you would reflect on what you would do differently from the start? For instance, would you have set a bolder line with your sister and perhaps not done any of the physical cleaning out? And what about your father, would you perhaps have suggested moving him somewhere safe so that you didn't have to keep creating a safe space for him in the house? I believe these reflections would be useful to others finding themselves in similar situations, particularly since you were kind enough to continue updating your progress on the situation.
Came back to the site today after being away a bit and this thread bumped up in the meantime. My apologies @farmgrrl for not seeing it sooner.
I am not sure if @farmgrrl has seen my estate thread in the Family section but in summary the house got fully cleared out in late 2019 and sold by the end January 2020 just before Covid hit. I became special trustee for selling the house the saga of which is detailed in that thread.
So, the last 2 years, yes I have reflected on what could have been done differently, if possible, as well as the things that really couldn't be changed because of certain personalities involved, namely my Dad and my sister (Middle Sister or MS for short).
The very first thing I would have done differently, and sadly, this is harsh but true: I should have never trusted MS. She stole from the estate. I have proof. With my special trustee role, she had to disclose certain financial details in order for me to finalize the sale and some of those details came out a mere 24 hours before closing, as a result of an urgent phone from my attorney. Some other details came out later when younger sister and I finally forced a accounting from her. What she took was not enough to go after but it was theft all the same. Despite all the delays, excuses, and red flags I still wanted to believe that she was being honest through it all. Because of what younger sister and I discovered, there are now some very big questions around what she did with my father's money when she had financial POA in the 2 years between our parents' deaths. I want to think that insisting on knowing more on his financial picture might have made a difference, possibly clued me in earlier but not sure. I was involved enough as it was, but MS covered her tracks in part because our father just allowed her to run the ship, looked to her for everything and would have not tolerated any questions about what she was doing. After Dad passed away, both younger sister and I were pretty much dependent on a dishonest person who wasn't even listening to her own attorney.
But outside of the trust/financial issues here's probably what I would have done differently, some of which is in light of those same issues:
1. Setting limits years in advance might have tempered the parental expectations. All of us siblings should have set limits on what we were willing to do/not do long before any of this happened. My parents had expectations of what their "3 little girls" would do for them that bordered on the fantastical because basically they didn't hear "no" from us enough. It wasn't enough that one of us (yep, me) who said it, was necessary that all of us say it. MS lived nearby and for years prior was on "speed dial" for just about everything and not just emergencies. Younger sister lived 1200 miles away but would fly back whenever parents demanded a visit, during which she did everything they wanted and not what she wanted, like visiting old friends. If Mom and Dad had heard the word "no" for years prior they might have had different expectations and plans for when they needed help. That is not to say we would not have helped them, but it would have not gone to the extremes it did.
2. Waiting. Would have waited on the house cleanout until Dad died or had moved out. Because cleaning out while he was still in the house eventually stressed him out to the point that it was counterproductive. I thought that could happen, it eventually did and I stopped going over there except to check on Dad or take him to appointments.
3. Once house cleanout commenced, limiting my time to one/two/three big cleanouts over several days in a row (like take a few vacation days) instead of this dribble of weekends and start/stop process that went on for years. I should have been more willing to be the bad guy on this, telling her this is all I can do and that's it. I ended up being the bad guy anyway and for a lot more trouble, quite frankly. Should have gone for Bad Guy status right off the bat.
4. Different living arrangements for Dad earlier: This would have been a tough one given MS' hand wringing over his money, which now is up to serious question. Plus Dad pretty much only listened to her. But maybe pushing more on getting him into assisted living / senior apartment in spite of MS' insistence that he had to stay at home? He had the money and my view was money in his accounts / home equity was for him to use when needed. This was a time when it was needed. If we spent it all, so be it but it would have taken years for him to get to that point. I would have like to think that would have worked but not sure, MS and Dad were very much alike meaning both of them were stubborn as hell. FYI, Dad did go into a nursing facility during his cancer treatment and was expected to move into assisted living after he completed treatment but passed away before that.
Those are the 4 takeaways at this point. Incidentally over the last year DH and his SIL are dealing with MIL who had to move into assisted living (dementia) after FIL became ill in early 2021 and died last August. MIL is in a good facility and is happy (well most days anyway LOL) but one big difference here is both DH and SIL have set limits on what they can do while still making sure she is safe.
iris lilies
3-8-22, 5:19pm
I hear you about setting a time limit on the amount of time you will help to “clean out the house. “
I’ve been on the fringes of several of those, and learned after the first one to walk into the house clean-up with a smile on my face and announce “hey I can spend four hours here today. Then I will have to leave.“
…and then leave after four hours.
And yes they will talk about me after I leave because I didn’t help to the end. But when it is obvious that no one is going to honor any sort of timeline, no one is going to make any decision about any object in the house in any kind of timely way, and when I’m not in charge of the entire clean-out process, I will merely lend a hand And that hand is carefully defined with enforced boundaries.
Saguaro: I'm so sorry for the difficulties and trust issues with your sister. I count it as my greatest good fortune that my sister and I have such a good relationship and are able to work together so amicably.
I feel like we're dealing with the stuff in layers. I've gone through things with Mom in the past where we reorganized stuff but very little was relinquished. Sis and I did a big cleanout a couple of years ago when Mom was staying with her friend. We got rids of lots of stuff, and Mom was actually relieved and glad for what we had done. That was kind of low-hanging fruit though. This pass, we are getting rid of lots of very nice things, so that's a little harder. But they are things that have not been used or touched or looked at for years, so they really should go to new homes where they will be used and enjoyed.
Depending on what the future brings, there could be a final big cleanout after this one, or a couple more layers peeled away. After this cleanout, although we are getting rid of so much, we are still far from minimalism. We got rid of loads of vases for example, but she still probably has about 30.
It definitely encourages me to keep my own possessions under control.
iris lilies
3-8-22, 6:25pm
When it comes to vases, I don’t find 30 to be an outlandish number! Ha ha, just kidding you but true for my household.
@rosarugosa, it is good you have a good relationship with your sister. I can't tell you how extremely painful it was to know that MS stole from us. On the other hand, I have a good relationship with youngest sister, who had complete trust in me when I took over the special trustee role. What a difference there was. Part of that trust came from that I was completely transparent with her and MS during the house sale, with email updates or phone calls as needed. To this day, MS claims she did nothing wrong.
And yes they will talk about me after I leave because I didn’t help to the end. But when it is obvious that no one is going to honor any sort of timeline, no one is going to make any decision about any object in the house in any kind of timely way, and when I’m not in charge of the entire clean-out process, I will merely lend a hand And that hand is carefully defined with enforced boundaries.
This reminds me of the time DH and I went to help a friend pack up his moving van along with a few other friends. We had a commitment for that evening so could only stay for several hours. Just as we thought we were done with packing up stuff from the house and done, friend says "oh wait, there's the garage". Opens up the garage and it's packed floor to ceiling with stuff. This was right as we had to leave. Let's just say, we imagined the grumbles from everyone else after we left over our timing but friend and his wife had made no effort whatsoever to start any packing up before we all showed up. This was a move planned for months but when we all walked into their condo and saw they had done absolutely nothing to prepare. I was packing up their clothes straight from their closets and drawers. their kitchen items from the cabinets. We at least expected to see some packing boxes ready to go but nope. No planning, no timeline, just completely open ended packing (and cleaning) job. We later learned the job didn't get finished until midnight and they were still having to hit the road for their move from IL to Colorado.
Saguaro: It's great that you have a good relationship with your younger sister at least.
IL: I think my point was really more a matter of illustrating that we are far from leaving Mom bereft without any earthly possessions, lol, but now I am off to count my vases!
OK, the number is 42, which coincidentally is, in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, the "Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything," calculated by an enormous supercomputer named Deep Thought over a period of 7.5 million years. But I digress.
This includes some cheap florist vases that are just passing through, since I like to keep some on hand for gifting bouquets. It also includes small antique bottles that I use for vases all the time, perfect for my little old house. It does not include antique bottles or other containers, such as pitchers, which are occasionally used as vases.
If you often have flowers in your home, you need a variety of vases because flowers come in so many sizes, shapes and colors. Same thing with pots if you have a lot of houseplants.
Teacher Terry
3-8-22, 8:15pm
I have one vase:)).
I have something under seven, not sure--I brought back two from my mom's house that I am thrilled with, as they are Swedish from the 1960's.
I sold my two Waterford vases when I got divorced but I'd like to replace them. As Rosa says, you need several vases because you have different kinds of flowers. I wish I had not sold the Waterford rose bowl--that was very cool.
happystuff
3-8-22, 11:54pm
I have various size canning jars. :)
I have various size canning jars. :)
I use those for vases too sometimes. They are nice for a rustic bouquet, and another good container for gifting.
Terry: I think it also makes a difference if a person has a garden or not, and IL will obviously need more containers than the rest of us because she does competitive flower arranging.
Farmgirl, I found this book really helpful:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0751FBVB7/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0
I actually read it after my parents' house had been dismantled, in a way that was quite traumatic and wrong, shameful, really. But if you want to read about how the process might happen, in a better universe, this is the book.
Much will depend on whether you are dealing with siblings. That is what blew up any plans for a productive process in my case.
If you are an only child, or if you have healthy siblings who are not dishonest, the book is a godsend as to how you might proceed.
iris lilies
3-9-22, 11:09am
Honestly, I’ve not counted my vases, but I would not be surprised if I do not reach Rosa’s hnumber of 42. Who am I to argue with Douglas Adams? I may have to buy more. :D
Please understand that I make floral designs out of things that are not vases/containers. I was just in Hermann arranging flower show stuff on shelving there. Next time I go I will count containers, if I remember to do that. What if my number is a Magic 42? Does that signal something happening in the universe?
Well, I think IL is entitled to her inventory of vases for obvious reasons.
When we moved from NJ, I had a bunch of those cheap glass vases I collected over time from bouquets people gave me as gifts. What dust-collectors those were! Now I have two vases, handmade by potters at a Vermont Priory. And pitchers double as vases as needed.
I am sad that I don't have my parents around at this stage of my life, but I do feel for those who are struggling. It's one struggle I'm spared by their early passing. However, I'm taking saguoro's take-aways to heart when thinking about what my kids may have to face.
Teacher Terry
3-9-22, 12:21pm
When I lived in my house I had 3. When I moved into my condo I wanted everything to easily fit without closets being packed. It’s a real joy to open a closet and not have to move anything to get something else. I understand IL having so many of course.
happystuff
3-9-22, 12:28pm
I figure as along as I have a drinking glass, I have a vase. People put flowers in anything these days.
iris lilies
3-9-22, 12:35pm
I was an absolute bear about people collecting stuff at my workplace. I had 25 people at one time in my department and 3 or 4 treated their work area like their own hidey holes where crap was piled on their desk and in their drawers and cubbies and etc.
Those stupid glass containers, the cheap floral ones, were typical. At one time we had a dozen of them in my department, stored in the general area. And of course being the boss I got to throw them out. But what if we need them? someone said. Fine, I said, we will keep two. which we never used of course.
A couple of my proudest work moments were the two times we had to move my department out then back in, and the big boss said you will need some time to clean out stuff and I said no. We do not have Hidey holes, we do not have “STUFF.” We are ready to move this afternoon, just tell us where to go.
I go to the thrift store and I see the stupid cheap glass vases being sold on the shelf for 3 to 5 dollars. I’m thinking people if you would put one dollar price on each one you might actually sell a whole shelf. Ut maybe they know what they’re doing, maybe the dumb public actually spends that much money for them.
I figure as along as I have a drinking glass, I have a vase. People put flowers in anything these days.
Vases...yikes, I used to have a ton of them including the cheap ones from flower arrangements. I got rid of all of them except for 2 larger vases, one of which belonged to my grandmother, to use with larger flowers/arrangements. For smaller ones, I use an antique milk bottle or old blue mason jars. For the mini roses or gerberas I usually grow on my deck I bought a couple of small pottery vases from the local community college art department. A lot less space to store and some of the items are multipurpose, like the masons.
I was an absolute bear about people collecting stuff at my workplace. I had 25 people at one time in my department and 3 or 4 treated their work area like their own hidey holes where crap was piled on their desk and in their drawers and cubbies and etc.
You sound like me. I was not the boss but due to my role within the proprietary information protection team in our office location, I was always tagged to oversee department interoffice moves. I was NOT popular with the folks who had crap all over their cubes and we had a lot of them. I don't know what it is with my workplace but it seems to be a common enough issue that I wonder if the tendency to collect crap / hoarding is asked in the hiring interviews.
Those stupid glass containers, the cheap floral ones, were typical. At one time we had a dozen of them in my department, stored in the general area. And of course being the boss I got to throw them out. But what if we need them? someone said. Fine, I said, we will keep two. which we never used of course.
I had people who not only needed to collect stuff in their cubes, they insisted on having extra filing cabinet space in the common area for their "important" stuff. When we had to move to much smaller cubes a couple of years ago, they had to give up their extra cabinet space so I got to see what was "important". Those 3 important things were christmas decorations (tossed), old computers that no longer worked on our network (returned to IT) and vases (tossed).
Yikes! I am an absolute minimalist compared to my coworkers when it comes to personal stuff. When I started a year ago, the only things I brought were my customs broker license (must display), my favorite preferred pens, and a notebook. Now, all I’ve added are some tea and a few cans of soup for lunches. The stuff hanging on my cube walls are documents for quick access (stuff from Customs and the like). I have a shipwreck calendar I keep forgetting to bring from home. The personal crap coworkers have is amazing.
Yikes! I am an absolute minimalist compared to my coworkers when it comes to personal stuff. When I started a year ago, the only things I brought were my customs broker license (must display), my favorite preferred pens, and a notebook. Now, all I’ve added are some tea and a few cans of soup for lunches. The stuff hanging on my cube walls are documents for quick access (stuff from Customs and the like). I have a shipwreck calendar I keep forgetting to bring from home. The personal crap coworkers have is amazing.
I typically did not keep personal stuff on my work desk, most of it is work related to the point I have been asked why I don't "personalize" my space with family pictures, etc. No, not everyone needs to see the face of every family member / pet that I have or see what vacations I took. Currently I have some things on the wall and my 10 year company anniversary thingy on the desk, these are items that I acquired at work and didn't bring home. I have one personal calendar because due to Covid, we couldn't get the company ones. Space is probably the most "personalized" it's ever been and it doesn't come close to the "displays" that some other folks have.
ToomuchStuff
3-9-22, 4:06pm
I figure as along as I have a drinking glass, I have a vase. People put flowers in anything these days.
Or they drink out of anything.
We have used vases as beer mugs before, LOL.
Honestly, I’ve not counted my vases, but I would not be surprised if I do not reach Rosa’s hnumber of 42. Who am I to argue with Douglas Adams? I may have to buy more. :D
Please understand that I make floral designs out of things that are not vases/containers. I was just in Hermann arranging flower show stuff on shelving there. Next time I go I will count containers, if I remember to do that. What if my number is a Magic 42? Does that signal something happening in the universe?
What would be the chances??? I think you should go count them right now! :laff:
Or they drink out of anything.
We have used vases as beer mugs before, LOL.
And I have used Pilsner glasses for vases!
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