View Full Version : The bottom fell out (part II).
Ultralight
6-9-17, 10:16pm
Over the past several months that I have been dating (mostly meeting women online, then meeting up for a date in real life) I have been developing a different mindset. Hmmm... maybe that is not the best way to explain it.
But I have gotten the feeling that is is just not worth it -- the expense in money, time, energy.
So I decided to just start doing things on my own -- things I was hoping to do with a significant other. And this started with my trip to the Middle East.
I am also thinking of taking a hot air balloon ride, going on a cruise, taking more international trips, learning to cook, going up to the Lake Erie Islands, and so forth. These are all things I would much rather do with a partner. But I know it is just not in the cards for me. So I am going solo.
I'm going to let my last online dating profile expire and just drop out of dating. It is not much fun anymore. And I can make just about any situation fun!
This will certainly simplify my life.
ToomuchStuff
6-10-17, 12:40am
Several friends of mine have stated over the years, it is when your not trying to find one/looking, that you tend to run into them.
Hasn't worked out so well for me, as the ones that I have had hit on me, are daughters of women that I have had an interest in over the years (young enough to be my daughter). Not looking my age has generally sucked.
I think there are singles groups you can travel with if you want. You are too young for Elderhostel, but a nice group of them came to my hometown once as an example.
I think there are singles groups you can travel with if you want. You are too young for Elderhostel, but a nice group of them came to my hometown once as an example.
I second this idea. You can enjoy traveling but be as social as you want, or not, depending on your mood that day. You get company when you feel like it and solitude when you don't.
I admire your continued inner review of your life, UA, and how willing you are to adjust and navigate life. Good for you!
Chicken lady
6-10-17, 12:19pm
So, you have been artificially putting yourself into situations that don't appeal to you in the hope of appealing to someone else, through that situation, who will then be interested in the things that to appeal to you?
i thought you were smarter than that.
the place you will meet people who want to do the things you want to do, is doing the things you want to do. Those people may or may not be date material, but at least if they seem to be you will start out with common interests!
i once dated a guy who I ran into at a conference. We hit it off, and I think he could tell I was interested. There was a live band playing that evening and he said "hey, I gotta go, but I'm going to see the band tonight, maybe I'll see you there?" I went, he wasn't there. I waited. I got into the music. 40 minutes in he appeared and offered me raisinettes. I said "oh, hey! I had decided you weren't coming." And he said "I wanted to make sure you stayed for the band."
if you're really looking for a life partner, you need to start with a woman who's into at least some if the same "bands"
iris lilies
6-10-17, 1:00pm
So, you have been artificially putting yourself into situations that don't appeal to you in the hope of appealing to someone else, through that situation, who will then be interested in the things that to appeal to you?
i thought you were smarter than that.
the place you will meet people who want to do the things you want to do, is doing the things you want to do. Those people may or may not be date material, but at least if they seem to be you will start out with common interests!
i once dated a guy who I ran into at a conference. We hit it off, and I think he could tell I was interested. There was a live band playing that evening and he said "hey, I gotta go, but I'm going to see the band tonight, maybe I'll see you there?" I went, he wasn't there. I waited. I got into the music. 40 minutes in he appeared and offered me raisinettes. I said "oh, hey! I had decided you weren't coming." And he said "I wanted to make sure you stayed for the band."
if you're really looking for a life partner, you need to start with a woman who's into at least some if the same "bands"
yep. When DH and I met, he was a member of the Men's garden club and I was a member of the regular garden club in the same town Two separate groups, yet having the same interests. We did not meet in garden club activities, we met in a singles group. But eventually we would've run into each other through the garden clubs.
My boyfriend before DH worked at a university library and I worked at the public library and we met through work activities.
boyfriend before that, I met at a cat show. I also showed cats. I think he may hold the world's record as being the only single heterosexual male who showed a cat.
CL is giving good advice. Be true to yourself and lead an authentic life. Maybe someone will come along, perhaps not, but your life will be better for it.
Ultralight
6-12-17, 6:52am
Several friends of mine have stated over the years, it is when your not trying to find one/looking, that you tend to run into them. I think this comes from watching so many romantic comedies and listening to so many loves songs. I doubt this pans out statistically.
Ultralight
6-12-17, 6:55am
So, you have been artificially putting yourself into situations that don't appeal to you in the hope of appealing to someone else, through that situation, who will then be interested in the things that to appeal to you?
What do you mean?
i thought you were smarter than that. I might be, it depends if you and/or know what you're talking about. ;)
the place you will meet people who want to do the things you want to do, is doing the things you want to do. Those people may or may not be date material, but at least if they seem to be you will start out with common interests!
i once dated a guy who I ran into at a conference. We hit it off, and I think he could tell I was interested. There was a live band playing that evening and he said "hey, I gotta go, but I'm going to see the band tonight, maybe I'll see you there?" I went, he wasn't there. I waited. I got into the music. 40 minutes in he appeared and offered me raisinettes. I said "oh, hey! I had decided you weren't coming." And he said "I wanted to make sure you stayed for the band."
if you're really looking for a life partner, you need to start with a woman who's into at least some if the same "bands" I like a lot of bands.
But also: please illustrate your suggestion a little more.
So, you have been artificially putting yourself into situations that don't appeal to you in the hope of appealing to someone else, through that situation, who will then be interested in the things that to appeal to you?
i thought you were smarter than that.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that comment, either. I don't get that from the OPs post. If you mean that online dating is "artificially putting yourself out there," it's very common practice these days. From what I can gather, t's not as easy to bump into your life partner as it used to be--plus the internet is just a tool.
Case in point, my DS broke up with a girlfriend a year or so ago, and he spent months and months trying to meet someone to no avail, even though he lives in a vibrant city and meets people all the time. We kept telling him to sign up for an online dating service and he refused over and over--he's very much a romantic and wanted to meet his next girlfriend in a way that would be written for a Jennifer Lawrence/Bradley Cooper movie.
Life doesn't happen that way. He FINALLY gave in and signed up for the online service, had two or three dates that weren't the right fit, but he just celebrated 3 months of dating a woman he is madly in love with, and the feeling's mutual. They fit together like a hand in glove.
There's nothing wrong with finding a partner online. You are not being "artificial"--my son is the most authentic person I know, and it's working for him.
And I don't think OP said that he was planning on doing all those other things like hot air ballooning just to meet someone--I get the impression he wanted to do them anyway, was just hoping for someone to do them with.
OP, I agree with the others who say just do exactly what you said--go out there and live your life, and life may surprise you.
Ultralight
6-12-17, 7:38am
I understand that online dating is "inorganic."
And I agree there is something to be said for dating "in the wild."
But my time "in the wild" is spent with atheists (who are overwhelmingly men) and the atheist women have so many choices that many actually have several partners concurrently (and the guys all know). I have never seen such fierce competition for women! haha
Now, they are not like rams locking horns. But there is lots of posturing, vying, arguing, emotional acrobatics, etc. Though compromising eventually wins out, which is why atheist women can have several concurrent boyfriends if they want.
My other hobbies, such as reading are solitary.
And school is not a good place to meet women.
Ultralight
6-12-17, 7:38am
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that comment, either. I don't get that from the OPs post. If you mean that online dating is "artificially putting yourself out there," it's very common practice these days. From what I can gather, t's not as easy to bump into your life partner as it used to be--plus the internet is just a tool.
Case in point, my DS broke up with a girlfriend a year or so ago, and he spent months and months trying to meet someone to no avail, even though he lives in a vibrant city and meets people all the time. We kept telling him to sign up for an online dating service and he refused over and over--he's very much a romantic and wanted to meet his next girlfriend in a way that would be written for a Jennifer Lawrence/Bradley Cooper movie.
Life doesn't happen that way. He FINALLY gave in and signed up for the online service, had two or three dates that weren't the right fit, but he just celebrated 3 months of dating a woman he is madly in love with, and the feeling's mutual. They fit together like a hand in glove.
There's nothing wrong with finding a partner online. You are not being "artificial"--my son is the most authentic person I know, and it's working for him.
And I don't think OP said that he was planning on doing all those other things like hot air ballooning just to meet someone--I get the impression he wanted to do them anyway, was just hoping for someone to do them with.
OP, I agree with the others who say just do exactly what you said--go out there and live your life, and life may surprise you.
Very glad to hear it worked out for your son!
Chicken lady
6-12-17, 8:07am
My impression from the original post was that Ultralite has been meeting these women on "dates" that involve things like going out to dinner - which he does not enjoy. My assumption being that if these "dates" we're opportunities to do things he enjoys anyway but with a variety of women, he would not be sick of the whole thing or resent the outlay of his "money, time, energy."
but perhaps I misunderstood and they have been meeting at the dog park to play with Harlan and he is just tired of the endless turnover.
Ultralight
6-12-17, 8:20am
My impression from the original post was that Ultralite has been meeting these women on "dates" that involve things like going out to dinner - which he does not enjoy. My assumption being that if these "dates" we're opportunities to do things he enjoys anyway but with a variety of women, he would not be sick of the whole thing or resent the outlay of his "money, time, energy."
but perhaps I misunderstood and they have been meeting at the dog park to play with Harlan and he is just tired of the endless turnover.I am indeed tired of the endless turnover. haha
iris lilies
6-12-17, 8:40am
Our singles group, back in the day, was really a good group. We had planned activities where an average of 10 people attended. Sometimes we had as many as 20 people. We went camping, we ate at restaurants, we went to bars for dancing and drinking. The drinking wasnt a priority. A singles group is a good way to meet people, casually, and not the intensive one-on-one encounter that is a traditional date.
Are there still singles groups? I would think there is a place for them even in the world of a online dating. We had the manual version of online dating back in the day, DH called it "newspaper dating" where singles replied to ads in newspapers. I had several short term relationships that were fun through that service and DH has a few dates that way.
And Harlan! Your pal to get women. Last night as I walked through our neighborhood I saw three young women walking their dogs and I thought of you, UL. Dog activities, an excellent way t meet people.
Are there still singles groups?
I noticed there are quite a few singles groups in the local meetup listings. My niece, also in late 30s, has been online dating for quite a while now. She finally met someone with whom she has clicked (at least I hope).
How can school not be a good way to meet women when they heavily outnumber men on college campuses?
Ultralight
6-12-17, 8:49pm
CL is giving good advice. Be true to yourself and lead an authentic life. Maybe someone will come along, perhaps not, but your life will be better for it. The dreaded "just be yourself" advice! LOL
Being myself (which I actually like being) is part of what isolates me.
Ultralight
6-12-17, 8:51pm
How can school not be a good way to meet women when they heavily outnumber men on college campuses?
Well, I am 37, so most women are like 21 years old on campus. But the women in my age bracket:
1. Have kids
2. Have the baby-rabies
3. Have mental health problems (very common in the social work program I am in; I know because the self-disclose all their mental health problems, and lifestyle problems for that matter).
Professional development seminars, conferences, or networking groups then? Social work has a lot of women.
Ultralight
6-13-17, 7:35am
Social work has a lot of women. Very true!
But they come in two camps:
1. Provincial traditionalists who are engaged, married, and have the baby-rabies.
2. SJWs.
I don't think you are doing anything wrong by trying some new things while dating or anything else. This is just really hard! I have been single 12 years, it is getting to embarrassing. I don't stick with trying to date for long periods of time either, I go in spurts. Over this last school year I tried to join some more group type things in the Buddhist community. Not to specifically date but to build relationships. Being 50 and over the years I have found that guys think that things about me are cool and exciting, but then at some point expect traditional behavior of some type. I am not that strange in my own mind really. My last first date the guy was totally frustrated I didn't adopt his theory of genetics that night because basically he said so? Another just said as a statement, not a question, that I had a very clean house. And don't start me on the guys separated for a short time and can't wait to have sex again. I actually want someone single.
So take your break, I have learned to do many things on my own also.
Don't feel embarrassed about being single! There's pros and cons to both single and coupled lifestyles, and nothing to be embarrassed about with either one.
freshstart
6-14-17, 6:46pm
my recent foray back into online dating was a flop except for making one very good male friend, it was worth it to have met him. However, I didn't try very hard, I waited for the men to approach me and then went on boring dates with men I didn't actually like. Meanwhile, at home I have a mother with an end stage disease who really needs me, a sudden change in my dad's health status which has me picking him up off the floor a few times a week and I just plain feel like shit with my own illness. I realized I was just doing it to escape my real life. Well, for now, my real life is too time consuming for a man. If the timing gets better, I'll try again.
I think it's good you're so self aware. Take those solo trips.
Ultralight
6-14-17, 7:09pm
my recent foray back into online dating was a flop except for making one very good male friend, it was worth it to have met him. However, I didn't try very hard, I waited for the men to approach me and then went on boring dates with men I didn't actually like. Meanwhile, at home I have a mother with an end stage disease who really needs me, a sudden change in my dad's health status which has me picking him up off the floor a few times a week and I just plain feel like shit with my own illness. I realized I was just doing it to escape my real life. Well, for now, my real life is too time consuming for a man. If the timing gets better, I'll try again.
I think it's good you're so self aware. Take those solo trips.
I am sorry to hear you are going through even more of this tragic stuff...
Ultralight
6-14-17, 9:29pm
Welp, today my Match.com subscription expired. And I deleted my profile.
I won't say it feels good to give up on romance, but I will say it feels like the right thing to do. Perhaps I can put this time, energy, and resources into something that actually pays off.
ToomuchStuff
6-15-17, 12:43am
Welp, today my Match.com subscription expired. And I deleted my profile.
I won't say it feels good to give up on romance, but I will say it feels like the right thing to do. Perhaps I can put this time, energy, and resources into something that actually pays off.
Your just being a minimalist in relationships.
Ultralight
6-15-17, 5:54am
Your just being a minimalist in relationships. LOL! You mean an extreme minimalist. And I wouldn't entirely consider this a form of "voluntary" simplicity. ;)
I'll put in a good word for online dating.
What I like about it is the directness. The people there are willing to say they are looking for a relationship and what kind of relationship they are looking for. Also, I think if you're willing to be very specific in your profile - e.g. name specific books, movies, and music you like, say something about what you think makes a successful relationship - you actually can end up meeting someone you have a lot in common with.
I just started online dating again after an eight-year relationship. I met two interesting guys with whom I had a lot in common and have been dating the second one for about six weeks. Hard to know where, if anywhere, it is going, but we do have some good conversations.
Yes, you should follow your interests. What I say to myself sometimes is, "If I knew I was definitely going to be single for the rest of my life, how would I live now?" That sort of orients me. But I wouldn't make any rules about online dating or any other method of meeting someone. Just take care of yourself, follow your passions, and stay open. You never know.
Btw, I keep my profile hidden because I'm a community college teacher, and I can't deal with running into my students on one of those sites. Guys only see my profile if I message them. Many guys have told me that women almost never contact them, but they love it when they do, so women out there, consider taking the first step!
Ultralight
6-21-17, 6:02am
I'll put in a good word for online dating.
What I like about it is the directness. The people there are willing to say they are looking for a relationship and what kind of relationship they are looking for. Also, I think if you're willing to be very specific in your profile - e.g. name specific books, movies, and music you like, say something about what you think makes a successful relationship - you actually can end up meeting someone you have a lot in common with.
I just started online dating again after an eight-year relationship. I met two interesting guys with whom I had a lot in common and have been dating the second one for about six weeks. Hard to know where, if anywhere, it is going, but we do have some good conversations.
Yes, you should follow your interests. What I say to myself sometimes is, "If I knew I was definitely going to be single for the rest of my life, how would I live now?" That sort of orients me. But I wouldn't make any rules about online dating or any other method of meeting someone. Just take care of yourself, follow your passions, and stay open. You never know.
Btw, I keep my profile hidden because I'm a community college teacher, and I can't deal with running into my students on one of those sites. Guys only see my profile if I message them. Many guys have told me that women almost never contact them, but they love it when they do, so women out there, consider taking the first step!
I am glad to hear you're having good luck with online dating and that you are assertive enough to contact a guy. Though I actually don't mind being the first to contact.
I try to be direct, but leave a little mystery so that things can be discovered about me later, in person, the old fashioned way.
If I asked myself: ""If I knew I was definitely going to be single for the rest of my life, how would I live now?" then I might slit my wrists. lol (joking, sort of).
That would be a bit of an apocalyptic question that would lead me to possibly apocalyptic answers.
I am trying not to imagine myself single for life, though it is quite possible.
My last day on Match.com was about a week ago. On that last day I started having a conversation with a woman. She is 40, and according to her profile does not have kids or want kids. She is also an atheist. She was born in China, grew up there, then moved to the US for college. She ended up getting a job here and staying. She was married and divorced.
So she is either defective or quirky. That is how it is with us leftovers, we're either defective or quirky (or both, I suppose).
Anyway, we exchanged emails before my Match profile went poof. We chatted a little and we have a date tomorrow night.
ToomuchStuff
6-21-17, 9:45am
If I asked myself: ""If I knew I was definitely going to be single for the rest of my life, how would I live now?" then I might slit my wrists. lol (joking, sort of).
Don't you ask yourself that, no matter the condition? The rocking chair approach. (what kind of person did I want to be when I look back)
Reason being, you could fall for this gal, and get married, and she could die on the honeymoon. You can't live life for others in the end, you can share life with others, but you can do that both in and out of relationships.
Had a friend whose wife fell for someone else and left him. A year later, he is raising his kids and a week away from getting married again, to a wonderful woman, and drops dead suddenly. I could list about six more that I know.
Have fun on your date, but think about it.
If you go into the date perceiving yourself and others as "leftovers" and "defective," then things will probably not turn out well. Quirky, however, is probably good!
ApatheticNoMore
6-21-17, 10:31am
My last day on Match.com was about a week ago. On that last day I started having a conversation with a woman. She is 40, and according to her profile does not have kids or want kids. She is also an atheist. She was born in China, grew up there, then moved to the US for college. She ended up getting a job here and staying. She was married and divorced.
So she is either defective or quirky. That is how it is with us leftovers, we're either defective or quirky (or both, I suppose).
maybe lower your standards, accept defective and quirky (but never cruel).
(Truthfully in my case I see much of that as preordained, have a weird enough childhood, and the chances of total normalcy later on are much sparser - by that point weird enough oneself that ...).
So she is either defective or quirky. That is how it is with us leftovers, we're either defective or quirky (or both, I suppose).
As a 51-year-old woman doing online dating, I take offense at this (joking, kind of).
First of all, all of us are "quirky." NONE of us are "normal."
Secondly, I can't even count the objections I have to the word "defective." What I will say, though, is, especially for those of us who did not witness a successful relationship growing up (which, I would venture to say, is most of us), succeeding at relationships takes skills many of us don't develop until we've made a lot of big mistakes. I don't know if I will ever get it right, and I'm trying to make my peace with that. But I feel I have a much better sense now of how to be a decent partner than I had 5, 10, or especially 20 years ago. I also have a much better appreciation of the value of working out a healthy partnership for me as an individual.
I highly recommend this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/opinion/sunday/why-you-will-marry-the-wrong-person.html
And this:
https://onbeing.org/programs/alain-de-botton-the-true-hard-work-of-love-and-relationships/
And finally, I recently heard a novelist say that the journey to being able to love another is really a journey to loving ourselves. Emotionally, I still struggle with understanding this, but intellectually, I know she's right.
I hope you can be open to that woman, with all her quirkiness and foibles and imperfections, and that she can be open to you with all of yours. Because frankly, nobody is going to come along and fix everything you don't like about your life or about the human condition. But you might find a partner who can be by your side and hold your hand through it.
This is all meant with kindness and support. I know being single can be tough.
freshstart
6-21-17, 1:55pm
agree with the above, good luck on the date! try to remain open
First of all, all of us are "quirky." NONE of us are "normal."
+1
I have a sign in my kitchen that says "Remember, as far as everyone else is concerned, we are a nice, normal family."
I've tried so hard to "pretend" to be normal, whatever that means, in my cookie cutter neighborhood of soccer moms and commuter dads. Then I realized that everyone has a story, and none of us are "normal."
With regard to the "defective" thing, I remember when my mother divorced my father and married a very stable man, I used to think how funny it was that people considered us a "broken home" because of the divorce, when in my mind we were "fixed."
Have fun on. your date!
(BTW, nice post, ej)
Teacher Terry
6-21-17, 3:56pm
UL: people are not defective-only products are:))
Ultralight
6-21-17, 4:53pm
UL: people are not defective-only products are:)) I think you need to get out more. ;)
Ultralight
6-21-17, 4:58pm
Saying no one is defective is like saying everyone is unique and special.
Am I defective? Uh... yeah, I eat too much pasta for sure. I can't do even the simplest math. When it comes to relationships every woman has called me "cagey" or "guarded" and they are probably right.
My defects seem fairly small to me, even forgivable.
Get over yourselves, people! We have defects.
Think about a person with Borderline Personality Disorder. They are defective!
See how I just changed your minds? You did not see that coming. ;)
UL: people are not defective-only products are:))
Well said, Terry! I can see why you are in the mental health field--kindness and a positive attitude do a lot to change the world in a good way!
Ultralight
6-21-17, 5:32pm
Well said, Terry! I can see why you are in the mental health field--kindness and a positive attitude do a lot to change the world in a good way! So the world is defective and needs to be changed for the better? Makes sense. Wait... no, maybe the world is just quirky.
So the world is defective and needs to be changed for the better? Makes sense. Wait... no, maybe the world is just quirky.
I liked what Terry said and I liked how she said it. And yes, I think acting kindly towards others makes the world a better place.
My apologies if I got off track on your original dating post. Good luck with your date; she sounds like a very interesting person!
Ultralight
6-21-17, 6:01pm
I liked what Terry said and I liked how she said it. And yes, I think acting kindly towards others makes the world a better place.
My apologies if I got off track on your original dating post. Good luck with your date; she sounds like a very interesting person! No problem! These conversations evolve.
And thank you. :)
Chicken lady
6-21-17, 6:01pm
Dh works in a product development field. They have very specific definitions for "defect" and "feature". These can be context dependent.
example: 3M developed a new ashesive. It did not behave as intended, it was still sticky and flexible after drying, but the hold was weak. This was a "defect". Then some guy spread it on little squares of paper and stacked them in a pad. Now it was a "feature", and tada, post-its.
often dh will inform me that some trait of mine is a defect (such as not eating meat), and I will smile at him and say "no. It's a feature."
so, if you are lucky, you will find someone who considers your particular defects to be features.
At our house we talk about foibles.
Everybody's got 'em.
freshstart
6-21-17, 7:44pm
I'm with Chicken Lady. A person with BPD is mentally ill, not defective, IMHO.
The word I use is baggage. Live long enough and you've got some.
DW was divorced at 28. I was divorced at 42.
I was foolish enough to start dating right away (for reasons I fully understood then as I do now). But, after a couple of years, I pulled the plug on dating, did "The Work", and tended to my life. I had long ago decided I was happier alone than wishing I were. Work was getting more and more demanding. So was a family situation for which I was the only family left. There wasn't much time for finding and going out on dates.
It wasn't easy. I missed dating and, umm, yeah, that stuff. :|( There were some events I would have liked to attend but didn't because friends couldn't go with me and I didn't want to "bother" to find dates for them or appear alone. But I needed that time for myself. And I got to try out some things that I'm guessing I could not have done with anyone I knew at that time ("Wasn't me. Nobody saw me. I wasn’t there.")
When I was ready to date I was all in. But I still was working a bunch of hours, there was my own house to take care of, and now there was the house I was renting to my mom. I was pretty fearless about asking out people at work (fortunately closer to my age than college age) or at other events. I told people I knew that I was open to qualified blind dates. I figured I was not everyone's cup of tea -- but, then, they weren't all going to be my cup of tea either. But ... nothing much.
Unknown to me, the woman who is now my DW was feeling many of the same pressures. Work kept her very busy as did her singles volunteer group (there still are some here in the Twin Cities) and she had plenty of friends in town. Still...
We both turned to on-line personals. The nice thing about on-line is that it's not so heavily dependent on appearance or free time. I could look at personals at 6 am and message the women I was interested in meeting. She could reply at 10 pm without worrying about using the phone (which she hates) or it being too late. I believe you can learn much more from a couple of minutes with an on-line profile than you can watching someone for that length of time in a store or at a concert. We've been married seven years last April.
UL, I can understand being reluctant to decide to stop dating. It's not easy. But it's also not permanent. The time you spend doing things you enjoy will make you a more rounded person whom you like better, and that's a key to being a good partner in a future relationship. And the more you do outside of your own place, the more people you will meet. Nothing wrong with advertising yourself, either. It's a big world. Good luck!
frugal-one
6-21-17, 8:52pm
DW was divorced at 28. I was divorced at 42.
I was foolish enough to start dating right away (for reasons I fully understood then as I do now). But, after a couple of years, I pulled the plug on dating, did "The Work", and tended to my life. I had long ago decided I was happier alone than wishing I were. Work was getting more and more demanding. So was a family situation for which I was the only family left. There wasn't much time for finding and going out on dates.
It wasn't easy. I missed dating and, umm, yeah, that stuff. :|( There were some events I would have liked to attend but didn't because friends couldn't go with me and I didn't want to "bother" to find dates for them or appear alone. But I needed that time for myself. And I got to try out some things that I'm guessing I could not have done with anyone I knew at that time ("Wasn't me. Nobody saw me. I wasn’t there.")
When I was ready to date I was all in. But I still was working a bunch of hours, there was my own house to take care of, and now there was the house I was renting to my mom. I was pretty fearless about asking out people at work (fortunately closer to my age than college age) or at other events. I told people I knew that I was open to qualified blind dates. I figured I was not everyone's cup of tea -- but, then, they weren't all going to be my cup of tea either. But ... nothing much.
Unknown to me, the woman who is now my DW was feeling many of the same pressures. Work kept her very busy as did her singles volunteer group (there still are some here in the Twin Cities) and she had plenty of friends in town. Still...
We both turned to on-line personals. The nice thing about on-line is that it's not so heavily dependent on appearance or free time. I could look at personals at 6 am and message the women I was interested in meeting. She could reply at 10 pm without worrying about using the phone (which she hates) or it being too late. I believe you can learn much more from a couple of minutes with an on-line profile than you can watching someone for that length of time in a store or at a concert. We've been married seven years last April.
UL, I can understand being reluctant to decide to stop dating. It's not easy. But it's also not permanent. The time you spend doing things you enjoy will make you a more rounded person whom you like better, and that's a key to being a good partner in a future relationship. And the more you do outside of your own place, the more people you will meet. Nothing wrong with advertising yourself, either. It's a big world. Good luck!
Nice that you are back on the forums Steve
Ultralight
6-21-17, 9:05pm
Nice that you are back on the forums Steve Agree!
Ultralight
6-21-17, 9:07pm
Yeah, unless something totally expected happens on my date tomorrow -- like we suddenly fall for each other -- then it will be my last date for quite a while, I think.
TooSweetForMe
6-22-17, 7:59am
UL, hope your date turns out well tonight.
I'm not dating at the moment but I really don't have the time or inclination to with being my Mom's primary caregiver. I have a few friends in the neighborhood that I chat with when I am able to get out for a walk (not much these days, need to start getting up earlier), and I have my friends that I chat with on my various forums. But not ready for all the "hoo-ha" that goes on with dating.
As for being "normal" - my favorite quote is, "I'm not normal - I'm Nermal". >8)
Ultralight
6-22-17, 8:07am
UL, hope your date turns out well tonight. Thanks. I have not heard back from her since Monday. So I would not be surprised if I get stood up and she ghosts on me.
I'm not dating at the moment but I really don't have the time or inclination to with being my Mom's primary caregiver. I have a few friends in the neighborhood that I chat with when I am able to get out for a walk (not much these days, need to start getting up earlier), and I have my friends that I chat with on my various forums. But not ready for all the "hoo-ha" that goes on with dating.
You are going through a tough time. I admire your sense of duty.
As for being "normal" - my favorite quote is, "I'm not normal - I'm Nermal". >8) LOL! :laff:
Ultralight
6-22-17, 6:20pm
Welp... I am getting ready for this date. Rolling the dice again...
Welp... I am getting ready for this date. Rolling the dice again...
Have fun!
Ultralight
6-22-17, 10:50pm
I went on the date. It actually went quite well. She is bright, well-read, likes foreign films, is an interesting person, and she is attractive.
But then I googled her after the date. I found her LinkedIn page. Turns out she lied about her age. She is not 40 like her dating profile said. She is actually 47.
Dishonesty is a major red flag.
freshstart
6-23-17, 2:39am
oh man, that sucks especially since she seems promising. Does the age difference bother you or is it just the fact that she lied? Are you going to confront her?
Ultralight
6-23-17, 6:05am
oh man, that sucks especially since she seems promising. Does the age difference bother you or is it just the fact that she lied? Are you going to confront her? I prefer to date older women. When I thought she was 40 I was concerned that she still might have baby-rabies.
So if she had been honest and told me she was 47, I actually would have been less hesitant about her. 47 is totally fine by me!
The lying is what bothers me. If someone lies about something, then they are totally likely to lie about other things.
I prefer to date older women. When I thought she was 40 I was concerned that she still might have baby-rabies.
So if she had been honest and told me she was 47, I actually would have been less hesitant about her. 47 is totally fine by me!
The lying is what bothers me. If someone lies about something, then they are totally likely to lie about other things.
Hmm.. I agree with you that lying is a red flag. At the same time, she probably assumes that you would be LESS interested in her if she were 47. Many women automatically think getting older is a death knell for relationships. Of course it also begs the question--if the relationship continued, when would she have told you the truth? You would have found out eventually. Maybe she was just trying to get her foot in the door so to speak.
How did you leave it with her (as far as future dates)?
Ultralight
6-23-17, 7:55am
Hmm.. I agree with you that lying is a red flag. At the same time, she probably assumes that you would be LESS interested in her if she were 47. Many women automatically think getting older is a death knell for relationships. Of course it also begs the question--if the relationship continued, when would she have told you the truth? You would have found out eventually. Maybe she was just trying to get her foot in the door so to speak.
How did you leave it with her (as far as future dates)?
As the date was ending I suggested we get together again, perhaps for dinner and something else (some activity or something, maybe a foreign film since we both like those a lot).
When we parted I was feeling cautiously optimistic. This is a rare feeling for me when it comes to dates.
Then I googled her, found her, and she is 47. I thought: "She is dishonest."
Who knows when she would have told me? Who knows if the person I liked on the date last night is the real person she is?
I also asked her when she came to the US and she said: "When I was in my 20s."
Obviously she was avoiding saying the year she came here.
Re the year she came to the USA: she might not remember! I've been here 17 or 18 years...I'd have to look it up to be sure.
She is not 40 like her dating profile said.
I'm not sure this actually qualifies as "lying". She may have intended to say 40's. Which she is. Depends on how the app is set up and whether it allows a range or if you have to pick a specific number.
I guess I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss, there could be a valid reason here.
As the date was ending I suggested we get together again, perhaps for dinner and something else (some activity or something, maybe a foreign film since we both like those a lot).
When we parted I was feeling cautiously optimistic. This is a rare feeling for me when it comes to dates.
Then I googled her, found her, and she is 47. I thought: "She is dishonest."
Who knows when she would have told me? Who knows if the person I liked on the date last night is the real person she is?
I also asked her when she came to the US and she said: "When I was in my 20s."
Obviously she was avoiding saying the year she came here.
If you feel she is dishonest, and you Googled her and found out something that convinces you that she is a liar, then I don't see going out with her again, as this seems to really bother you, and you are setting both of you up for anger and disappointment if you pursue a relationship.
TooSweetForMe
6-23-17, 1:21pm
You are going through a tough time. I admire your sense of duty.
I don't consider it a sense of duty so much as a sense of love and respect.
TooSweetForMe
6-23-17, 1:22pm
I went on the date. It actually went quite well. She is bright, well-read, likes foreign films, is an interesting person, and she is attractive. But then I googled her after the date. I found her LinkedIn page. Turns out she lied about her age. She is not 40 like her dating profile said. She is actually 47. Dishonesty is a major red flag.
Glad it went well but sorry she lied about her age. Are you considering Date #2?
Ultralight
6-23-17, 6:03pm
I'm not sure this actually qualifies as "lying". She may have intended to say 40's. Which she is. Depends on how the app is set up and whether it allows a range or if you have to pick a specific number.
I guess I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss, there could be a valid reason here. The dating site requires you give your birthday. So the age is specific and it updates automatically.
Ultralight
6-23-17, 6:03pm
Glad it went well but sorry she lied about her age. Are you considering Date #2?
I highly doubt I would go for a second date.
Bummer about your date's indiscretion, UL. Will you let her know what cost the two of you Date #2?
Ultralight
6-23-17, 7:45pm
Bummer about your date's indiscretion, UL. Will you let her know what cost the two of you Date #2? I told her today that I enjoyed the date and getting to know her. Then I politely asked about the lack of truth regarding her age. No response yet.
ApatheticNoMore
6-23-17, 8:03pm
meanwhile she's thinking: "I'm taking down the age from my linked in, I knew no guys wouldn't want to date me if I knew my real age. I knew it!" :laff: The thing about age on a dating profile though is it's not just age of someone you meet socially but is used as a screening device, so people worry their profiles might NEVER EVEN BE VIEWED (no not even by a 47 year old man - he's probably seeking a 35 year old. and no not even if one doesn't look their age, real life would show that, but profiles aren't screened on that basis).
I really don't care if you date her or not of course, and I don't make up vastly fake ages (I do think I made myself a month younger briefly - a month equating to a year because birthday), just that's how it is with women and age ... though my dad lied to my mom about his age said he was considerably younger (closer to her age), she found out oh maybe a decade into marriage.
(it's hard to imagine age as a positive in the job market either though, so really shouldn't be on a linked in)
Maybe instead of screening by age you need to take a closer look at those SJWs you dismissed. Find one whose cause is population control and who doesn't want to reproduce.
ApatheticNoMore
6-23-17, 8:16pm
Maybe instead of screening by age you need to take a closer look at those SJWs you dismissed.
I don't think UL is screening by age but by lying. However screening by age is how the SOFTWARE WORKS period, it's a major criteria one puts in for searching and there aren't that many criteria usually (one can't demand only brunettes so easily as they can only 30-40 year olds), and when people are subject to the design of software ...
Ultralight
6-23-17, 8:17pm
Maybe instead of screening by age you need to take a closer look at those SJWs you dismissed. Find one whose cause is population control and who doesn't want to reproduce. There are shockingly few of those. And most of them outgrow it after college.
Ultralight
6-23-17, 8:18pm
I don't think UL is screening by age but by lying. However screening by age is how the SOFTWARE WORKS period, and when people are subject to the design of software ... If she was straight-up with me and said she was 47 then I would be like: "Game on!"
I have no problem dating a woman 10 years older than me. I would be happy to do so!
Ultralight
6-23-17, 10:41pm
This was her response:
"I enjoyed talking with you too.
Well, I guess you found out before I tell you. The reason I lied about my age is I wanted people to see me and talk in person before they shut the chances to meet because of my age (to increase my chances to meet the right person, I guess?). My plan is after I meet somebody for the first time and if we decide to go further I will let him know then. And if he thinks I am too old for him I wouldn’t have a problem at all. Believe me it was hard for me, but I feel it might be not bad as long as I tell him before we meet for the second time.
I am sorry that you might feel I deceived you, and I understand it might ruin the whole thing. Well, guess at least we met.
Thanks for complementing my mind and it meant a lot to me and you seemed to me to have a great mind… if we don’t see each other again I wish you good luck."
I'd give her another chance ...
TooSweetForMe
6-24-17, 7:42am
I highly doubt I would go for a second date.
Maybe it ended up or the best.
TooSweetForMe
6-24-17, 7:47am
If she was straight-up with me and said she was 47 then I would be like: "Game on!"
I have no problem dating a woman 10 years older than me. I would be happy to do so!
I don't know if that gives me hope for if I ever decide to get out in the dating world again or not - most men I've seen when I WAS looking to date were interested in 10+ years younger. I'm actually old enough to be your mom, UL - if you had a teenage mom.
I vote for a 2nd chance IF you would have gone out with her again without the lie. Just as I thought--she just wanted a foot in the door because most 30-something guys would be scared off by her age. She checks a lot of boxes for you, she's even better because she's older. I'm not convinced this little fib was enough to trash her character--yet.
I think the fact that you have deemed her "dishonest" means that any relationship is doomed from the start. She is already apologizing to you--this is not a healthy start to a relationship between equals; let her go, as this is a very negative dynamic for both of you.
Chicken lady
6-24-17, 8:29am
Remember the part where you said everybody in your dating pool is defective? You are extremely demanding. And I don't think it's necessarily that you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself, you just seem to find faults unacceptable. You should probably get one of the t- shirts that says "the more people I meet, the more I like my dog." Harlan isn't perfect, but that's ok with you, because Harlan is a dog. But people are also imperfect.
but seriously, I think you probably need to do some work on yourself before you go back to dating. And I don't mean push ups. You are either looking for a reason to sabotage every relationship, or you are so inflexible that you might as well give up.
what flaws would you find acceptable? And I don't mean "I can overlook this" I mean "this is ok." Because nobody deserves to be in a relationship with someone who is "forgiving" their shortcomings all the time.
ApatheticNoMore
6-24-17, 10:07am
most men I've seen when I WAS looking to date were interested in 10+ years younger.
of course this is often not what all women are looking for, all I ever wanted is close to my age, not seeking to rob the cradle, just my age. My mom married 15 years older (but again because my dad lied for a decade into marriage - she knew he was older but thought it was by 7 years), and she spent much time care-taking a MUCH older man, it more than scared me off that (and women live LONGER generally as well so if anything they should marry younger). Plus if a guy says he's 10 years older how do I know he's not really 15 years older? My bf is 2 1/2 years younger than me.
Remember the part where you said everybody in your dating pool is defective? You are extremely demanding. And I don't think it's necessarily that you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself, you just seem to find faults unacceptable. You should probably get one of the t- shirts that says "the more people I meet, the more I like my dog." Harlan isn't perfect, but that's ok with you, because Harlan is a dog. But people are also imperfect.
but seriously, I think you probably need to do some work on yourself before you go back to dating. And I don't mean push ups. You are either looking for a reason to sabotage every relationship, or you are so inflexible that you might as well give up.
I posted here: "consider lowering your standards", but I never meant it was not ok to have red flags of course. It was just starting to sound like he was finding *everyone* he dated defective. Should lying about age be a red flag or not? I have no idea frankly, because I don't think people generally make those decisions rationally anyway!!! They are drawn to a person (not necessarily "in love" but drawn) and things proceed from there, and flaws get overlooked despite worry about them etc.. And this may or may not turn out well in the long run, it is real risk to be sure (and I took more risk than I am always comfortable with - guy has a past - but not violence or anything). But maybe being a SJW though shouldn't be a red flag. There is no need to date anyone (singlehood is not a crime, it actually is a perfectly valid choice if not always an easy one), but if everyone one dates is "defective" in some way and yet one claims to want a relationship ....
You might want to read Rebecca Traister and Stephanie Koontz among others. Women are getting more degrees, getting better jobs, and no longer have an economic need for men. Increasingly I am hearing the phrase "happy wife happy life" as women are less and less willing to settle. It might behoove the OP to reflect on whether his mindset that he sets rules and screens people out has served him well. So basically what Chicken Lady said.
Wondering if a green singles dating site might be a better fit for someone looking for child-free mates and those wishing to stay that way.
freshstart
6-24-17, 8:51pm
I'd give her another chance ...
me too
SteveinMN
6-25-17, 10:51am
The reason I lied about my age is I wanted people to see me and talk in person before they shut the chances to meet because of my age (to increase my chances to meet the right person, I guess?). My plan is after I meet somebody for the first time and if we decide to go further I will let him know then. And if he thinks I am too old for him I wouldn’t have a problem at all. Believe me it was hard for me, but I feel it might be not bad as long as I tell him before we meet for the second time.
Two thoughts:
- These days, it's far more difficult to keep data like birthdates under wraps. I know how easy it is to find "public record" information for any ordinary person on the Web for free, never mind what you can learn with paid services. "Fudge-first-and-clean-up-later" as an MO is questionable even if it exposes or introduces this woman to a few more people.
- For me (as someone else pointed out) the approach would taint the relationship from the get-go. I have no problem with putting oneself in the best possible light in a dating profile (FWIW my avatar picture here is the one I used when I met DW [and the other women I dated on that site; n.b. it is not a full-body shot nor am I shown taming waves on a bodyboard or such -- and now you know that the picture is almost a decade old]). But making oneself out to be someone you're not? In this case, I would be wondering from now on whether what I was hearing was accurate or if it would be "corrected" at some future time. If that woman and I chose to date exclusively, could I be sure she really is dating only me -- or is there that guy she set up a date with earlier who seems interesting even though she doesn't think much will come of meeting him -- or that she's separated from her husband but "available"? If/when the infamous "Date 3" arrives, can I believe this person when she tells me she's free of STDs? If truth is that flexible, can she trust my statement that I am "clean"? Should we bring doctor's notes?
In seeking a partner everyone has their preferences and their deal-breakers, however worthy or superficial they may be. Ultralight, of course, decides for himself. But if it truly is the deception and not the actual age that is the issue, being someone who strongly values truth and accuracy and going on a second date would not be fair to either individual.
iris lilies
6-25-17, 12:56pm
This is a situation where it is too bad that UL and the woman cant in interact in a group, without the pressure of dating. In a casual group of people, in several encounters and over time, he could better assess her character.
For me, this age white lie wouldnt be a big deal, but I understand that for someone else, it might be and that is ok. Actually, I would probably think the white lie was stupid and unnecessary, and why do it! Makes no sense, 7 years isnt a big difference in the world of adults, so why risk credibility for such little gain? Ok, now I am talking myself into the position of this lie was a bogger deal than I originally thought. :~)
Regarding Date 3, many people carry STDs and are not aware of it. 50 to 75% of single women aged 45 to 50 in the United States are infected with genital herpes. Rates are also high for HPV and other diseases that can be asymptomatic. So if you want to be safe you should get a doctor's note or practice safe sex.
Teacher Terry
6-25-17, 1:50pm
I don't think that most men understand how hard it can be for women that are older to get a date. Most men want younger. I say it is a little thing but it only matters if UL can let it go or not.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 5:52am
I don't know if that gives me hope for if I ever decide to get out in the dating world again or not - most men I've seen when I WAS looking to date were interested in 10+ years younger. I'm actually old enough to be your mom, UL - if you had a teenage mom.
My questions for you would be these types of things:
Do we share the same values?
Can we make each other laugh?
Are our lifestyles compatible?
Are we sexually attracted to each other?
Do you like dogs?
But if focusing on a major age gap is a big worry of yours, then that is on you. ;)
Ultralight
6-26-17, 5:54am
I vote for a 2nd chance IF you would have gone out with her again without the lie. Just as I thought--she just wanted a foot in the door because most 30-something guys would be scared off by her age. She checks a lot of boxes for you, she's even better because she's older. I'm not convinced this little fib was enough to trash her character--yet.
She has 45-55 as the age range she is interested in on her dating profile. She is apparently not especially interested in younger men.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 5:57am
I think the fact that you have deemed her "dishonest" means that any relationship is doomed from the start. She is already apologizing to you--this is not a healthy start to a relationship between equals; let her go, as this is a very negative dynamic for both of you.
A person, through diligent work, can make up for a lie and thereafter build someone's trust. But it takes time and work.
Also: There is nothing wrong with apologizing. Apologizing for something you have done wrong and making amends is a sign of good character.
A long time female friend actually told me this once, and perhaps it is related to the reason you think this woman's lie to me does not warrant an apology.
She said: "Jake, I bet one of the reasons you are single is that you admit when you are wrong. Women don't like that in a man. They say they do, but they actually don't. You should reconsider this practice."
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:10am
Remember the part where you said everybody in your dating pool is defective? You are extremely demanding. And I don't think it's necessarily that you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself, you just seem to find faults unacceptable. You should probably get one of the t- shirts that says "the more people I meet, the more I like my dog." Harlan isn't perfect, but that's ok with you, because Harlan is a dog. But people are also imperfect.
Remember when I did not say that everyone in the dating pool is defective? I actually said they were either defective or quirky.
I don't find all faults unacceptable, but some I do.
but seriously, I think you probably need to do some work on yourself before you go back to dating. And I don't mean push ups. You are either looking for a reason to sabotage every relationship, or you are so inflexible that you might as well give up.
What kind of work on myself would you suggest?
As David Lee Roth once said: "The problem with self-improvement is knowing when to quit."
what flaws would you find acceptable? And I don't mean "I can overlook this" I mean "this is ok." Because nobody deserves to be in a relationship with someone who is "forgiving" their shortcomings all the time.
If someone had a weakness for cookies, I would be fine with that. Or if someone did not like interesting books and films, I would probably be fine with that. If a woman was overweight or too skinny, I would be okay with that, so long as they were generally healthy and active. I am fairly open-minded, I think.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:17am
You might want to read Rebecca Traister and Stephanie Koontz among others. Women are getting more degrees, getting better jobs, and no longer have an economic need for men. Increasingly I am hearing the phrase "happy wife happy life" as women are less and less willing to settle. It might behoove the OP to reflect on whether his mindset that he sets rules and screens people out has served him well. So basically what Chicken Lady said.
Women are getting more degrees? Great! I like smart women.
Women are getting better jobs? Excellent! I like women who are also resourceful.
Though I think an addiction to workahol is a bad rad flag.
Having and enjoying a relationship takes time and some focus. If you are at the office all the time or always on the clock, you're not going to be a good partner to me or anyone. Make sense?
I think both people set the rules and standards. Going into a relationship I have my standards, she has her's. Do they jive and merge well? That is part of creating a relationship.
"Happy wife, happy life?" Wow. There is a real sense of entitlement coming out. That saying is as old as the hills, by the way. How about this instead?
"Mutually happy life partners, happy life?"
I know it does not roll off the tongue, but I like the meaning better as it is gender egalitarian.
My daughter has played around with polyamory and open relationships. When she asks me about whether her she should or shouldn't, my answer is always "Relationships are about agreements. If both sides agree to a certain thing, whether it's how to spend household money or how many partners they have on the side, things will probably be fine as long as they agree to and abide by the terms."
So it's not about running around trying to make a woman happy, it's about finding the terms that both of you can live with. Sounds like you feel you and your potential partner are going to have to agree on total honesty, and anything else is going to break the relationship.
But I think Yppej has a point. As a general rule, I think both men and women bring higher expectations into a long-term relationship than they used to be and are gun-shy about marriage. Some have said it's a byproduct of having seen so many of their parents' marriages fail.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 7:19am
My daughter has played around with polyamory and open relationships. When she asks me about whether her she should or shouldn't, my answer is always "Relationships are about agreements. If both sides agree to a certain thing, whether it's how to spend household money or how many partners they have on the side, things will probably be fine as long as they agree to and abide by the terms."
So it's not about running around trying to make a woman happy, it's about finding the terms that both of you can live with. Sounds like you feel you and your potential partner are going to have to agree on total honesty, and anything else is going to break the relationship.
But I think Yppej has a point. As a general rule, I think both men and women bring higher expectations into a long-term relationship than they used to be and are gun-shy about marriage. Some have said it's a byproduct of having seen so many of their parents' marriages fail. Mine was the first divorce in my family -- uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. included. My parents are still together.
Mine was the first divorce in my family -- uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. included. My parents are still together.
I was just speaking in general. My mother divorced three times and I'm on year 40 of my 1st marriage. But I still believe that some people a) don't see as much value in marriage because of the failure rate and b) they don't "need" to get married, especially if they don't want children. But even then, some women would rather have just a child than a child+husband.
Check out this survey: https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/eickmeyer-gen-x-millennials-fp-15-12.html
"Two in five men and women indicate that marriage has not worked out for most people they know."
"Half of singles who have ever cohabited express pessimism toward marriage"
And this (http://www.gallup.com/poll/191462/gallup-analysis-millennials-marriage-family.aspx) from Gallup:
Most millennials have not yet married, and they are waiting longer to marry. For 34-year-olds, just over half (56%) are married, and of these, 83% have children. But a substantial number (46%) of those who have never been married and are well into their 30s have children. This may represent a seismic shift in the connection between marriage and child rearing because as recently as 2000, the comparable percentage of single/never married 30- to 34-year-olds with children was just 30%.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 7:37am
But even then, some women would rather have just a child than a child+husband.
I have known women like this. And it is incredibly selfish in my opinion. One is married and has said: "I would rather have a baby than have my husband."
Another woman I know, after struggling as a single mom for a few years, married a different guy and then had two more kids by him. She said: "The only reason I married my husband was because I wanted more kids."
Chicken lady
6-26-17, 7:38am
I misremembered what you said and didn't reread - my apologies. ;)
also, I appreciate it when my husband admits that he was wrong (but your friend could argue, maybe I am just saying that)
cookies, weight, books and films.
make yourself a comprehensive list look it over. What are your must haves? be honest with yourself. LIST those values that you need to have in common. "Honesty,..."
imagine this his hypothetical woman. What do you have to offer her? I think it was George burns who was supposed to have said that he wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have him as a member. I wonder if you are taking a similar approach to dating. Asking, no data. But if that is the case, you need to either become somebody your imaginary woman (a realistic imaginary woman) would want, change your standards, or resign yourself to being alone.
it seems like you put up with a couple of major incompatibilities in your last relationship, and yet, I am wondering if you are checking people off too quickly over minor ones in your dating experiences. Just wondering, again, no real data. I agree that if someone makes a mistake, an apology is in order. But do you come across as forgiving?
also give yourself and others room to be flexible. It's ok to have both hard and soft limits. A long time ago I think I told you that when I was dating, one of the things I led with was "I want six kids." I really meant that. But dh didn't want six kids. Which didn't stop him from dating me. And after a while I decided the fact that he wanted kids was enough. I avoided a relationship (with a guy who probably would have been open to six kids) because we started out with a dating profile type approach "this is who I am, this is what I want" - I was open to Buddhism, but couldn't see myself ever becoming vegetarian. Still not buddhist, but am vegetarian.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 7:43am
I know that there is nothing wrong with being single. There is also nothing wrong with sleeping on the floor. I just find both unpleasant in the long term.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 7:45am
CL:
LOL! I have actually said: "I am not sure I'd want to be in a relationship with a woman who'd have me as a boyfriend."
Obviously, I said it in jest. But still, funny!
I have known women like this. And it is incredibly selfish in my opinion. One is married and has said: "I would rather have a baby than have my husband."
Another woman I know, after struggling as a single mom for a few years, married a different guy and then had two more kids by him. She said: "The only reason I married my husband was because I wanted more kids."
My DDs best friend is another example. She auditioned sperm donors and found one. She owns a bakery in Brooklyn, so she's up at 4am, working all day in a stressful environment managing employees, then has to come home and be a mom. She has single-handedly put a dent in my daughter's desire for children, seeing how hard her friend's life is with no support from another adult in the family. But that's what she signed up for. I agree--it's either a naive move, or a selfish one, or both.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 7:51am
I agree--it's either a naive move, or a selfish one, or both. Amen, sistah!
I feel bad for the kids -- raised by strangers in day care centers or by relatives who may have apprehensions about being a pseudo-parent to their grandchild or what-have-you.
Also, as conservative a position as this is, I still think fathers are important.
TooSweetForMe
6-26-17, 8:00am
My questions for you would be these types of things:
Do we share the same values?
Can we make each other laugh?
Are our lifestyles compatible?
Are we sexually attracted to each other?
Do you like dogs?
But if focusing on a major age gap is a big worry of yours, then that is on you. ;)
The age gap thing doesn't bother me, I think of the Aaliyah song (or is it Missy Elliott) "Age Ain't Nothing But A Number". But I was just commenting that most of the males looking on the sites I was on were looking for youngers, maybe they were looking for potential family-making material. I agree with you on the questions posed, but would find out the answers as I got to know the other person better - and yes, I do like dogs.
TooSweetForMe
6-26-17, 8:07am
I think both people set the rules and standards. Going into a relationship I have my standards, she has her's. Do they jive and merge well? That is part of creating a relationship.
"Happy wife, happy life?" Wow. There is a real sense of entitlement coming out. That saying is as old as the hills, by the way. How about this instead?
"Mutually happy life partners, happy life?"
I know it does not roll off the tongue, but I like the meaning better as it is gender egalitarian.
UL, I agree with the first - a relationship (even a friendship or professional relationship) is a merging of standards. If they don't merge and/or jive well, then you back off, think about it, and decide if you should split and find something or someone else.
"Happy wife, happy life"? How about this - "Happy life partners, happy life experience"?
Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:10am
The age gap thing doesn't bother me, I think of the Aaliyah song (or is it Missy Elliott) "Age Ain't Nothing But A Number". But I was just commenting that most of the males looking on the sites I was on were looking for youngers, maybe they were looking for potential family-making material. I agree with you on the questions posed, but would find out the answers as I got to know the other person better - and yes, I do like dogs. If the guys are interested in making babies with a woman, they have a bazillion options to choose from.
But from an evolutionary stance, women look for wealth and status in men. Men look for youth and beauty in women.
I think since I don't want to make babies, I can see the beauty in an older woman. I also like wisdom and emotional maturity -- which come with age often.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:11am
"Happy wife, happy life"? How about this - "Happy life partners, happy life experience"? I like it! :)
TooSweetForMe
6-26-17, 8:24am
But from an evolutionary stance, women look for wealth and status in men. Men look for youth and beauty in women.
I think since I don't want to make babies, I can see the beauty in an older woman. I also like wisdom and emotional maturity -- which come with age often.
I think in the past, when it was the "norm" for the women to stay at home and take care of the household and child-rearing duties, the women looked for the wealth and status to make sure that they were taken care of in the instance that something happened to the male in the relationship, leaving them alone to take care of kids, house, & bills. The men, OTOH, wanted the women to be "young & beautiful" so that they would be looked upon favorably when they would show up at social events with the "arm candy".
Baby-making, for me, went out the window when I found out I had to have a c-section with my 2nd. My exH and I talked about it and decided that I would have my tubes tided because, at that period of time, 2 c-sections meant no Dr would let you try for a 3rd (whether natural or c-section). I also had pre-eclampsia with both my pregnancies (another no-no to try for a 3rd, at the time).
If the guys are interested in making babies with a woman, they have a bazillion options to choose from.
But from an evolutionary stance, women look for wealth and status in men. Men look for youth and beauty in women.
I think since I don't want to make babies, I can see the beauty in an older woman. I also like wisdom and emotional maturity -- which come with age often.
Gee, I could set you up with a 50 something woman who is amazing. She's single, very independent, no kids, is a physical trainer and hyper-healthy. Never married, but she came close to marrying one of my son's friends. She's beautiful, too. You would NEVER guess she's 50. She looks 35-40, from all that good eating and exercise. Born and raised in London.
From what I understand, she is a pet lover, and has two dogs--and her problem is, she sometimes puts her dogs first in the relationship--they go everywhere with her. Plus, she lives in California.
I could see you two getting along.
Thinking of UL's comment about fathers being necessary ...
Of course fathers are important. Kids need to be raised by both parents of whatever gender as much as possible. And they need extended family involvement as much as possible. And neighborhood connections as much as possible.
This "just me and my baby" thinking among young women is the epitome of radical individualism and it's not best for anyone, including the stressed out exhausted mom.
A person, through diligent work, can make up for a lie and thereafter build someone's trust. But it takes time and work.
Also: There is nothing wrong with apologizing. Apologizing for something you have done wrong and making amends is a sign of good character.
A long time female friend actually told me this once, and perhaps it is related to the reason you think this woman's lie to me does not warrant an apology.
She said: "Jake, I bet one of the reasons you are single is that you admit when you are wrong. Women don't like that in a man. They say they do, but they actually don't. You should reconsider this practice."
No, you misunderstood me. My point was that you have already judged this woman and found her dishonest, and are in a position of expecting apologies from her, which means you feel she has harmed you, and you have taken on a persecuted, victim role in the relationship and have assumed moral authority over her.
This is the unhealthy dynamic I am referring to.
ApatheticNoMore
6-26-17, 10:45am
Thinking of UL's comment about fathers being necessary ...
Of course fathers are important. Kids need to be raised by both parents of whatever gender as much as possible. And they need extended family involvement as much as possible. And neighborhood connections as much as possible.
yes. but realistically a woman is almost always going to end up doing more of the raising of kids than her husband, so I don't think that single woman's experience is all that alien to a lot of married women, life is going to be harried, a bit more economic security with two parents though.
ApatheticNoMore
6-26-17, 10:50am
Women are getting better jobs? Excellent! I like women who are also resourceful.
Though I think an addiction to workahol is a bad rad flag.
Having and enjoying a relationship takes time and some focus. If you are at the office all the time or always on the clock, you're not going to be a good partner to me or anyone. Make sense?
yea I used to think that comes about with guys that say they are ambitious and thus they must be working hard to make it happen right? I avoided that, but ended up with someone working a lot anyway. Because I'm not sure it really works that way. And there are other ways for it to come about, shitty blue collar job (oh gawd do these suck, I'm glad to do office work in comparison!), that works one massive hours of unpaid overtime etc.. That's how it can come up without any being ambitious or choosing to chase the money, but just as often driven by survival.
catherine
6-26-17, 10:58am
A long time female friend actually told me this once, and perhaps it is related to the reason you think this woman's lie to me does not warrant an apology.
She said: "Jake, I bet one of the reasons you are single is that you admit when you are wrong. Women don't like that in a man. They say they do, but they actually don't. You should reconsider this practice."
Your friend probably voted for Trump.
I disagree with her. Does she see admitting a mistake as male weakness? Submission? How can an equal relationship move forward if the man is "always right"?
. . . .
"Happy wife, happy life"? How about this - "Happy life partners, happy life experience"?
I've heard "Happy spouse, happy house."
Ultralight
6-26-17, 4:46pm
She auditioned sperm donors and found one. What does this mean?
What does this mean?
Well, she didn't audition them formally, but she just shopped around and found someone willing to donate with no strings attached.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 4:48pm
This "just me and my baby" thinking among young women is the epitome of radical individualism and it's not best for anyone, including the stressed out exhausted mom. You must be trying to pick a fight with the majority of women today.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 4:53pm
No, you misunderstood me. My point was that you have already judged this woman and found her dishonest, and are in a position of expecting apologies from her, which means you feel she has harmed you, and you have taken on a persecuted, victim role in the relationship and have assumed moral authority over her.
This is the unhealthy dynamic I am referring to.
What the heck are you talking about? She lied and admitted to lying. When someone lies it is acceptable to consider them dishonest. How else do you determine if someone is dishonest?
Can people change their ways? Yes. Will she do so? I don't know.
I expect one apology from her. And then I expect her to build some trust as time goes onward. I am willing to forgive and move onward with her on additional dates, as long as moving onward is in the right direction.
I could make mistakes too, probably not of the lying variety though. And I would apologize, hope to be forgiven by the person, and then hopefully move onward and upward.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 4:55pm
yes. but realistically a woman is almost always going to end up doing more of the raising of kids than her husband. Why is this the case?
Ultralight
6-26-17, 4:57pm
I disagree with her. Does she see admitting a mistake as male weakness? Submission? I am not sure, what do you think?
I think most women like strong men with at least somewhat dominant and decisive personalities.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 4:58pm
Well, she didn't audition them formally, but she just shopped around and found someone willing to donate with no strings attached.
Well, if the guy did not sign a TPR then she could easily go after her for child support. That might help ease her burdens -- pay for daycare and such.
Dude, I get it. (Ultralight). I think you are totally reasonable to expect one apology on the representing her age thing then move on with whatever you want out of the deal. There is a lot of pressure in many ways on people based on age, looks, ethnicity, etc. You have overall seemed open minded, a few things that are important to you however.
On the women do more thing, that may be changing quite a bit. my daughter is the bigger earner compared to her fiance. He has been doing most of the baby care the last 7 months and worked his career around her. However she is a team lead at Target which is not the big professional job so they are going to opposite shift work to avoid daycare costs for awhile. Not that I see anything wrong with daycare, I hear the 'raised by strangers' thing a lot, and as a provider I do not feel that me or my staff is anything like strangers to the kids. My kids went to daycare and I found nice people, warm home environments and built relationships with the care givers. Considering the complete lack of ability on the part of my in-laws the kids were much better off!
Truth wins my heart. Don't care if I offend. 😄😄😊
I don't get all the drama here.The way I see it is that she did you a favor, as you found out before dating her seriously that she did something that you abhor--lying. So if she did something you abhor, then why pursue a relationship? It seems doomed from the start.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:22pm
I don't get all the drama here.The way I see it is that she did you a favor, as you found out before dating her seriously that she did something that you abhor--lying. So if she did something you abhor, then why pursue a relationship? It seems doomed from the start.
Twisted logic. Wow.
I tell you what, if a woman said something like this to me while dating I would promptly say: "You are not my type. Best of luck to you. Do not contact me anymore."
iris lilies
6-26-17, 6:28pm
Yes, I think it wise that Tybee and UL do not date.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:28pm
Truth wins my heart. Don't care if I offend.
:D
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:29pm
Yes, I think it wise that Tybee and UL do not date.
!Splat!
Chicken lady
6-26-17, 6:31pm
Hey, ultralite, one thing I'm pretty sure if is that "the majority of women" are not interested in dating you (not meant to be offensive, just once you remove married, religious, and mommy types you no longer have a majority) so you probably shouldn't worry about what "the majority of women" think/do/want.
my rabbit likes papaya. That is probably not relevant to your life in any way. :)
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:35pm
Hey, ultralite, one thing I'm pretty sure if is that "the majority of women" are not interested in dating you (not meant to be offensive, just once you remove married, religious, and mommy types you no longer have a majority) so you probably shouldn't worry about what "the majority of women" think/do/want.
Valid point.
my rabbit likes papaya. That is probably not relevant to your life in any way. :) Ha! Well, Harlan likes papaya too -- loves it, really!
If I were online dating, and I went on a date, and the guy I went on a date with did something I found abhorrent--say he punched a dog--then that's the end of the date and the end of the relationship. I would not seek an apology, just lots of distance from someone whose behavior I abhor.
It seems kind of cut and dried that we're done, no more contact.
That's all I was trying to say. Apparently I'm not being very clear tonight, lol, too much grading papers, I guess.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 6:45pm
Watch this. I am about to rhetorically teach you a tough lesson you probably needed to learn a long time ago.
If I were online dating, and I went on a date, and the guy I went on a date with did something I found abhorrent--say he punched a dog--then that's the end of the date and the end of the relationship. I would not seek an apology, just lots of distance from someone whose behavior I abhor.
The way you see it, he'd be doing you a favor by punching that dog...
(See what I did there Tybee? I used your flawed thinking on you. Feel that? Yup. That sensation is cognitive dissonance.)
Wow, I am baffled by your post. I meant you no harm, no malice. If you get lied to and you don't like it, then you end the relationship. If you find out something bad about someone before there is a relationship, then you have dodged a bullet.
Not sure what you mean by your attack and your comment about "twisted" and "malicious" and insulting me about if you were dating me? That seems silly.
I hope you can go on a better date and find a better person to relate to. I wish you all success in your dating endeavors, seriously. I think you deserve to be happy.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:01pm
Not sure what you mean by your attack..."
Hyperbolic.
I hope you can go on a better date and find a better person to relate to. I wish you all success in your dating endeavors, seriously. I think you deserve to be happy.
Thank you. I wish the best for you too, sincerely.
rosarugosa
6-26-17, 8:04pm
I was a little baffled too, Tybee. I didn't see anything malicious in any of your comments.
UA: I think you need to go for a nice long walk with Harlan. Sounds like you are having a bad day.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:05pm
I was a little baffled too, Tybee. I didn't see anything malicious in any of your comments.
UA: I think you need to go for a nice long walk with Harlan. Sounds like you are having a bad day.
I changed it. I was being hyperbolic myself. My mistake.
If I were online dating, and I went on a date, and the guy I went on a date with did something I found abhorrent--say he punched a dog--then that's the end of the date and the end of the relationship. I would not seek an apology, just lots of distance from someone whose behavior I abhor.
It seems kind of cut and dried that we're done, no more contact.
That's all I was trying to say. Apparently I'm not being very clear tonight, lol, too much grading papers, I guess.
Unless you like to be the good person by making the other person be the bad person and holding the power to forgive them or not, and maybe make them grovel a little before you do. If I were her I might apologize to the person who went digging up info on me online, but it would be an "as she rises to her apology" moment.
rosarugosa
6-26-17, 8:35pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBlXEGLXlV0
Ultralight
6-26-17, 8:47pm
Unless you like to be the good person by making the other person be the bad person and holding the power to forgive them or not, and maybe make them grovel a little before you do. If I were her I might apologize to the person who went digging up info on me online, but it would be an "as she rises to her apology" moment.
Dude. Wake up and smell the burnt toast. There is this thing called "The Internet." Googling someone is fair game these days. People who are afraid to get Googled have something to hide. Perhaps you are afraid of getting googled?
No I am not afraid of being Googled. I'm sure I was when I was job searching recently. But while you started this thread lamenting your poor romantic prospects it doesn't appear you are willing to look inwards as to why that may be. It's the women who are all flawed and not worth your money and time at dinner. Rigid thinking (I should only own 200 items - if I get to 206 I must throw 6 out), black and white thinking, and judgmentalism are probably better addressed by a professional counselor than these forums.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 9:07pm
No I am not afraid of being Googled. I'm sure I was when I was job searching recently. But while you started this thread lamenting your poor romantic prospects it doesn't appear you are willing to look inwards as to why that may be. It's the women who are all flawed and not worth your money and time at dinner. Rigid thinking (I should only own 200 items - if I get to 206 I must throw 6 out), black and white thinking, and judgmentalism are probably better addressed by a professional counselor than these forums.
So many people are judgmental of judgmental people.
So you are saying you don't judge people? Come on now. Tell the truth...
What is mind-boggling here is that I say: "It is important to tell the truth about who you are when entering into dating and relationships."
Then many folks are like: "You are a judgmental jerk! How dare you judge someone for lying to you and misrepresenting themselves to you!"
It is like I am in some bizarro world.
Ultralight, you're a quirky guy, probably more quirky than she is aware at this point. I think you should give her another chance in order to give her a more informed perspective of exactly who you are. You made a decision about her character after catching her in a white lie, you should give her a chance to better evaluate you as well. The problem of 'to date her or not to date her' would then probably go away all by itself. :moon:
Ultralight
6-26-17, 9:14pm
No I am not afraid of being Googled. I'm sure I was when I was job searching recently. But while you started this thread lamenting your poor romantic prospects it doesn't appear you are willing to look inwards as to why that may be. It's the women who are all flawed and not worth your money and time at dinner. Rigid thinking (I should only own 200 items - if I get to 206 I must throw 6 out), black and white thinking, and judgmentalism are probably better addressed by a professional counselor than these forums. Listen to yourself judging me in this very post! LOL
Judging me for my minimalist lifestyle, for owning less than 200 things, for needing a professional counselor. So, so judgey! Maybe you need to do some inner work, meditate on it. Then you won't want to judge me so harshly. Maybe you could do some Loving-Kindness meditation! It could really help you.
(See what I did there? I zinged you with your own rhetoric.)
But she isn't the only person you've found defective, and she wasn't so defective that you walked away. Instead you wanted to take the information you found on her and shame her with her lie.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 9:16pm
Ultralight, you're a quirky guy, probably more quirky than she is aware at this point. I think you should give her another chance in order to give her a more informed perspective of exactly who you are. You made a decision about her character after catching her in a white lie, you should give her a chance to better evaluate you as well. The problem of 'to date her or not to date her' would then probably go away all by itself. :moon:
You zinged me, Al!
But zinginess aside, I essentially agree. As she and I both get to know each other we'll both be deciding on our own terms if we are compatible for each other and if compromises are worth it. If either of us decides to call it quits, then it is my hope we simply wish each other luck and walk away. I know that is what I would do.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 9:19pm
But she isn't the only person you've found defective, and she wasn't so defective that you walked away. Instead you wanted to take the information you found on her and shame her with her lie.
Shame her? What the heck?
I don't want her to feel shame. I just want her to be honest about who she is.
I have no plan to make any more references to her lie when she and I are conversing. She explained to me what she did and why. I think what she did was wrong. I think she thinks what she did was wrong. I am hoping that we just move along and progress in getting to know each other.
You already brought it up. You elicited an apology. But I don't imagine you apologized to her for spying on her online. So already there is a power imbalance of sorts, in your favor.
Ultralight
6-26-17, 10:28pm
You already brought it up. You elicited an apology. But I don't imagine you apologized to her for spying on her online. So already there is a power imbalance of sorts, in your favor.
Only I know how to use Google. Right... buddy. Sure. lol
You know that considering googling someone "spying" is antiquated thinking.
You act like it takes some sleuthing to find someone's social media presence. Do you know how social media works? Do you know what "social" means?
Yes I know how social media works. You send an invitation to connect and if the person accepts then you look at their pictures or profile and ooh and aah and comment if you want. It's not a gotcha game.
Ultralight
6-27-17, 6:07am
Yes I know how social media works. You send an invitation to connect and if the person accepts then you look at their pictures or profile and ooh and aah and comment if you want. It's not a gotcha game.
Actually much of social media is entirely public.
You can't spy on things that are public. Apparently you're not sure what "public" means either.
Again, it is interesting how you defend someone's "right" to literally lie in order to misrepresent themselves and condemn someone else's ability to discover this lie with public information and then merely ask about it.
This is bizarro world stuff, Yppej, bizzaro world.
Ultralight
6-27-17, 6:11am
You already brought it up. You elicited an apology.
Actually I just asked why is there a discrepancy between her age on the dating profile and her age on another public social media site. I never asked for an apology.
Now, I did, in a subsequent email express my concern that she could be being dishonest about other things or that she would be dishonest about other things in the future. But you and I both know that is a legitimate concern.
I asked her to be honest with me going forward and suggested we start fresh on a second date.
I know, such villainy!
TooSweetForMe
6-27-17, 7:42am
I've heard "Happy spouse, happy house."
I like that one.
Ultralight
6-27-17, 7:48am
I like that one.
+1
Williamsmith
6-27-17, 10:03am
The gift of a second chance reflects positively on ones ability to preserve another person's honor and dignity. The problem with denying a second chance is that it is a denial that may act like a dripping water in its effect. It remains as a sort of impediment to your own growth.
In this instance, it is a minor infraction.
I googled my current son in law when he was dating my daughter and found out that he was a convicted felon. It resulted in a fractured relationship with my daughter that was only healed when I gave them my blessings to be married and told him that he deserved a second chance.
I think you ought to eliminate this fib from your evaluation and see what's left of your interest in the relationship. You might find something there. It doesn't have to meet certain standards to have been of value. If you walk away it should be over something more substantive. At least you will not add insult to injury if you approach it that way.
I kinda see that this is how it goes on boards. You bring something up, especially if it is struggle with relationships. There is always a certain amount of the tone of what is wrong with you, and even though I know I need to always consider my own actions it can be hard when you are already struggling with trying really hard to make things work. It is just the nature of it IMHO.
freshstart
6-27-17, 4:43pm
I agree with Alan and Williamsmith and am glad you are giving her a second chance. I also think it's the responsible thing to do to google someone you are about to date especially if you are getting in their car or going to their home. I think online daters expect to be googled.
Ultralight
6-27-17, 4:46pm
The gift of a second chance reflects positively on ones ability to preserve another person's honor and dignity. The problem with denying a second chance is that it is a denial that may act like a dripping water in its effect. It remains as a sort of impediment to your own growth.
In this instance, it is a minor infraction.
I googled my current son in law when he was dating my daughter and found out that he was a convicted felon. It resulted in a fractured relationship with my daughter that was only healed when I gave them my blessings to be married and told him that he deserved a second chance.
I think you ought to eliminate this fib from your evaluation and see what's left of your interest in the relationship. You might find something there. It doesn't have to meet certain standards to have been of value. If you walk away it should be over something more substantive. At least you will not add insult to injury if you approach it that way.
Nothing wrong with googling the dude. You were in the right.
She is an atheist who claims she does not want kids (and she is probably too old anyway, at 47). She is bright, well-read, interesting, and physically attractive.
I went back and forth about going on a second date. But then I figured that if the other things on her dating resume were true, then we have a lot of shared values.
Hopefully she is not a hoarder.
freshstart
6-27-17, 4:51pm
does she like dogs? I think anyone who likes foreign film is a keeper, I find this very hard to find.
Ultralight
6-27-17, 4:55pm
does she like dogs? I think anyone who likes foreign film is a keeper, I find this very hard to find. We'll find out tomorrow. I will ask her about dogs.
(Unrelated: I will start a foreign film thread to give each other suggestions on here.)
Teacher Terry
6-27-17, 6:10pm
My good friend loves foreign films so I went to a few but all of them were awful. It seems like people love them or hate them. Enjoy the 2nd date!
iris lilies
6-27-17, 6:39pm
I agree with Alan and Williamsmith and am glad you are giving her a second chance. I also think it's the responsible thing to do to google someone you are about to date especially if you are getting in their car or going to their home. I think online daters expect to be googled.
I like foreign films, but I would never use that as a measuring stick for character or compatibility. It just means that someone who likes foreign films might provide conversational content for our interactions.
it is noce to have something's ng in commn such as liking dogs and doreign films, it gives you something's ng to do.
Does UL pay to attend the cinema? Or, does the College campus provide film showing for free, of whoch I expect there are many. In college town film festivals are ubiquitous.
As you proceed - bear in my mind that I enjoy science lectures with a female friend, I talk science fiction with my son, I go to movies and out to eat with my husband, I have minimalism in common with my daughter and her husband, I adore the grandkids with my daughter in law, I talk gardening and home/car repairs with my other son, I discuss politics, nursing, and feminism with another female friend ....
I find only a few things in common with my husband of 36 years.
He doesn't have to be everything to me.
Ultralight
6-27-17, 7:42pm
As you proceed - bear in my mind that I enjoy science lectures with a female friend, I talk science fiction with my son, I go to movies and out to eat with my husband, I have minimalism in common with my daughter and her husband, I adore the grandkids with my daughter in law, I talk gardening and home/car repairs with my other son, I discuss politics, nursing, and feminism with another female friend ....
I find only a few things in common with my husband of 36 years.
He doesn't have to be everything to me.
I agree. But those few things gotta matter! :)
ApatheticNoMore
6-27-17, 8:15pm
don't think i'd want to be with anyone I didn't have anything of significance in common with, wouldn't see a lot of point in it. A relationship with one's clone probably won't work, but plenty of people in the world will always be totally alien to me, and I can't say I'd want a relationship with them either.
TooSweetForMe
6-28-17, 8:15am
UL, hope the 2nd date turns out good.
I've never had an opportunity to see a foreign film - will be looking for the thread to come about so I can maybe get a suggestion or two of where to start.
Fingers crossed for a fun and pleasant second date. It's kind of cool you guys have already dealt with one potential issue!
Ultralight
6-28-17, 4:59pm
Thanks. I am hoping it goes well. If not, at least I know the food is good. haha
Ultralight
6-28-17, 9:06pm
I just got back from the date. It was fine. But I don't think there is that electricity, that chemistry. You know?
Oh, well. By the second date you usually know. I hope you had a good meal at least, and not a lot of dead air.
Ultralight
6-28-17, 9:11pm
Oh, well. By the second date you usually know. I hope you had a good meal at least, and not a lot of dead air.
Food was good. Conversation was alright. Just... didn't feel like much zest.
Williamsmith
6-28-17, 11:32pm
Food was good. Conversation was alright. Just... didn't feel like much zest.
So you and 60 million other married couples in the US had about the same experience tonight.
Best date night is Saturday. Conversation is highly overrated. Zest is a soap.
Im beginning to think atheists have a more difficult time imagining human love because of the scientific basis of all their beliefs. Magic in a relationship is hard to quantify in those terms.
Ultralight
6-29-17, 6:29am
So you and 60 million other married couples in the US had about the same experience tonight.
Best date night is Saturday. Conversation is highly overrated. Zest is a soap.
Im beginning to think atheists have a more difficult time imagining human love because of the scientific basis of all their beliefs. Magic in a relationship is hard to quantify in those terms.
Magic is an illusion. ;)
The date being a bit boring is not a deal breaker. I find most other people to generally be boring -- so it is no sin.
What I noticed was that she did not really ask about me. I'd ask her a question and then she'd go on and on about herself. There was not much of a volley.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy learning about other people and hearing their stories and ideas and finding out about their experiences. But it seemed a bit odd to not return the volley when opportunity after opportunity presented itself.
TooSweetForMe
6-29-17, 7:49am
Maybe she hasn't been back in the game long and isn't sure how to return the serve.
Then again, she may just be about herself.
Ultralight
6-29-17, 8:16am
Maybe she hasn't been back in the game long and isn't sure how to return the serve.
Then again, she may just be about herself.
Yeah, it could be either of those. The chemistry we seemed to initially have felt like it was no longer there.
But a lack of chemistry should probably not be deal breaker for me.
ToomuchStuff
6-29-17, 11:22am
It could also be a response to the whole age thing. Wants to be forthcoming and afraid to start asking questions back.
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-17, 12:31pm
Well I do think some (doesn't have to be overwhelming - not that that is not nice to find mind you, but it may not be the ultimate criteria in a life partner - but does have to be there) physical attraction is needed if that's what is meant by chemistry. It ebbs and flows so every date even with the same person won't necessarily be fireworks (or that is a woman's experience, quite possibly not a man's) but some turn on should be there.
Ok that's just physical attraction, lust etc.. but as for magic ....
Looking for magic probably doesn't work for everybody. In fact for some it probably DESTROYS potential good relationships. It may work for certain personality types but some of us aren't that type, we are more thought than feeling (sure in Jung's typography), more prosaic, more depressive, more dissatisfied, more analytical. And the being overwhelmed by "magic" is more likely for those who have a more direct visceral relationship with life generally than a more detached analytical one. They are maybe more certain of A LOT of things from just gut experience, what career to do (although even if one never finds a career they like, not working is seldom the option that being single is), what hobbies to take up etc.. And if there is magic for the rest of us, maybe it's over time, and too subtle to meet most ordinary definitions.
I don't of course advocate anyone getting involved with someone they have no draw to whatsoever (one must marry the first member of the attractive sex that agrees to a date with them!), no that's just pointless, just realistic expectations ...
"Maybe love for her shouldn't burn that bright
But shine with a lean warm and steady light" - john gorka
catherine
6-29-17, 12:50pm
I've used the example of my high school best friend when counseling my kids. My high school friend was going out with a nice guy who wanted to marry her. She told her mother, "I don't know if I love him." Recognizing this guy's potential for being good marriage material, her mother said, "you'll learn to love him." Sounds old-fashioned and boring mom advice, but they've been married as long as I have, so I guess her mother knew best.
I told that story to my own son who said basically the same thing to me about the woman who is now my DIL. And he is now madly in love with her and they get along great. ETA: Yes, I ADORE this girl, always thought she was right for him, but couldn't come out and say "Get off your butt and MARRY her for God's sake!" because your parent telling you to do something almost guarantees you'll do the opposite. so I used this little parable and it worked!
Sometimes I don't see anything wrong with arranged marriages. You can't always trust chemistry. It's one factor, but not the only one that will ensure long-term success in a relationship.
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-17, 12:57pm
Oh I've long thought arranged marriages were PREFERABLE in many ways. They fail if relatives try to arrange a marriage for someone ALREADY in love with someone else who they would rather be with! That is when they show their really dark side, it's not the hooking up two completely unattached people who might not otherwise be that is the dark side ...
Ultralight
6-29-17, 4:53pm
We still do quite of bit of arranging -- that is internet dating! We let computers do the arranging but we are not technologically advanced and trusting yet to let them pick (or be) our life partners.
I've used the example of my high school best friend when counseling my kids. My high school friend was going out with a nice guy who wanted to marry her. She told her mother, "I don't know if I love him." Recognizing this guy's potential for being good marriage material, her mother said, "you'll learn to love him." Sounds old-fashioned and boring mom advice, but they've been married as long as I have, so I guess her mother knew best.
I told that story to my own son who said basically the same thing to me about the woman who is now my DIL. And he is now madly in love with her and they get along great. ETA: Yes, I ADORE this girl, always thought she was right for him, but couldn't come out and say "Get off your butt and MARRY her for God's sake!" because your parent telling you to do something almost guarantees you'll do the opposite. so I used this little parable and it worked!
Sometimes I don't see anything wrong with arranged marriages. You can't always trust chemistry. It's one factor, but not the only one that will ensure long-term success in a relationship.
"You could learn to love him" was what my realtor said she did with her husband--in reference to my comment that I wasn't sold on this house. I'm still not; I never learned to love it. And I would never go into a relationship trying to force myself to love someone only marginally appealing, either. Thank heavens I didn't have to. Time has taught me to go with my instincts. They haven't failed me yet. Yes, I think arranged marriages can work, if you view them as you would a business deal. Very practical. Not for me.
I am reading a book now where the author thinks we have become a culture of "matching" in all our endeavors, likes and dislikes because of the internet. It has its advantages but also causes us to become complacent about accepting situations or things that aren't just right. We sort ourselves by class, income, likes and dislikes. It is comfortable and safe which apparently is what we want.
"You could learn to love him" was what my realtor said she did with her husband--in reference to my comment that I wasn't sold on this house. I'm still not; I never learned to love it. And I would never go into a relationship trying to force myself to love someone only marginally appealing, either. Thank heavens I didn't have to. Time has taught me to go with my instincts. They haven't failed me yet. Yes, I think arranged marriages can work, if you view them as you would a business deal. Very practical. Not for me.
There are pitfalls to just falling into relationships that feel comfortable and right. If you've been raised in less than stellar surroundings you're likely to repeat unhealthy patterns. A little bit of self-awareness and analysis and, yes, logic, could serve you well in making decisions about life partners.
There are pitfalls to just falling into relationships that feel comfortable and right. If you've been raised in less than stellar surroundings you're likely to repeat unhealthy patterns. A little bit of self-awareness and analysis and, yes, logic, could serve you well in making decisions about life partners.
My parents had a great marriage, but apparently I didn't learn much about being in a good marriage from watching them. :|( I knew what a good marriage was; I just could not get there the first time. But that self-awareness and analysis and logic have served me very well for the second time around.
A good friend of ours has a daughter on marriage #3. She posts on Facebook that marriage is just tough and ugly and super-hard (but worth it). Maybe it's my personality type. Or something else. But, understanding that "stuff happens", if my marriage has been tough and ugly and super-hard, maybe I married the wrong person?
Ultralight
6-30-17, 9:39pm
My parents had a great marriage, but apparently I didn't learn much about being in a good marriage from watching them. :|( I knew what a good marriage was; I just could not get there the first time. But that self-awareness and analysis and logic have served me very well for the second time around.
A good friend of ours has a daughter on marriage #3. She posts on Facebook that marriage is just tough and ugly and super-hard (but worth it). Maybe it's my personality type. Or something else. But, understanding that "stuff happens", if my marriage has been tough and ugly and super-hard, maybe I married the wrong person?
If a marriage sucks that bad -- then divorce.
Ultralight
6-30-17, 9:40pm
I told the woman from my most recent date that we were not a good match. I wished her luck. She did the same.
I read an article yesterday about how after age 38 men's chances of finding a life partner drop dramatically.
I will be 38 in a week.
Simplemind
6-30-17, 9:50pm
I met my current partner in '99 and we married in '01 at 45 for me and 46 for him. Better the second time around for both of us. I didn't think I would ever get married again and didn't care. I wasn't looking, he fell in my lap.
Yeah, I think a lot of people marry more happily the second or even third time, and far after 40. I don't put much store in those statistics; if you want to get married at 38 or 58 or 88, you can certainly find someone.
I don't think marriage should be ugly and tough, but it certainly is not as easy as I would prefer, or what I dreamed of growing up. I just wanted a low conflict, happy, supportive relationship. It seems that is tough to find these days, with so much social change so quickly.
Yeah, I think a lot of people marry more happily the second or even third time, and far after 40. I don't put much store in those statistics; if you want to get married at 38 or 58 or 88, you can certainly find someone.
I don't think marriage should be ugly and tough, but it certainly is not as easy as I would prefer, or what I dreamed of growing up. I just wanted a low conflict, happy, supportive relationship. It seems that is tough to find these days, with so much social change so quickly.
I agree. That's why this is one of my favorite Elton John songs. It speaks to the truth: If you want love, you gotta take some messiness with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufbexgPyeJQ
I saw an interview with Donald Trump the other day in which he said he liked Melania because he did not have to put any work into the relationship, it was easy. Nice if you can find it.
Catherine, where was that filmed? That location is huge with so many rooms but an enjoyable one to watch.
freshstart
7-1-17, 12:37pm
I saw an interview with Donald Trump the other day in which he said he liked Melania because he did not have to put any work into the relationship, it was easy. Nice if you can find it.
I'd like to hear her perspective
I saw an interview with Donald Trump the other day in which he said he liked Melania because he did not have to put any work into the relationship, it was easy. I guess it all depends on what each wants out of the relationship. But if both partners are happy with their marriage, then it's a good marriage.
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