View Full Version : Amazon and Whole Foods
That was a wild development I'd have never seen coming. For whatever a person might criticize Whole Foods for, nearly every WF I've been in has had pleasant employees and higher quality produce, meats, cheeses, and baked goods than any standard super market. Two Whole Foods and my area have closed in the last year and I've read that their business hasn't been prospering. I don't shop there routinely, but it's a nice treat to occasionally pick up a few special things there. I wonder if some Amazon MBA will determine that high quality foods and decently compensated workers are not the best way to make money in the grocery business.
The grocery shopping options are sure changing in my region. Sprouts, Lucky's, Trader Joes, and natural Grocers all seem to be expanding and I've wondered if the old established supermarket chains will survive.
I never liked WF's owner/management, pricing, or general atmosphere, and I'm very happy with Amazon's products and service, so this came as welcome news to me.
ApatheticNoMore
6-18-17, 2:02pm
I liked Whole Foods, but since this merger I may never set foot in one again. It actually is too much monopoly power. Would that anyone actually cared about enforcing anti-trust.
Amazon wants to own the world, WF was trying to dominate the natural foods market it is true (to the determent of natural food shoppers. I prefered when had more choices such Wild Oats, though WF did a good job at least), but the world not so much. Amazon OTOH ...had it's hands in everything.
WF workers never seemed like happy campers at all to me, however probably better working conditions than in an Amazon warehouse from what we hear.
I wonder if some Amazon MBA will determine that high quality foods and decently compensated workers are not the best way to make money in the grocery business.
they probably aren't, although I guess Costco is doing ok (?). Don't shop at Costco as I'm usually shopping for one person kwim. Unless your going after the true rich, going after middle class people with disposable income (like me :)) is probably a losing proposition as there are less and less of them and more and more people barely keeping heads above water.
As for pricing WF never was in the looking for low prices food shopper market, it just wasn't. Amazon used to be the cheapest way to buy various things but their prices are increasingly not a very good deal anymore (and certainly no longer the best deal online), so I wouldn't expect them to necessarily improve WF pricing (maybe the Amazon of 10 years ago, but like I said their prices are going up a lot lately with them).
BikingLady
6-18-17, 2:23pm
Super excited here, Love both. I say I may never have to go to a brick and mortar store again.
If I can Amazon Prime groceries from Whole Foods, I'm a fan.
I liked Whole Foods, but since this merger I may never set foot in one again. It actually is too much monopoly power. Would that anyone actually cared about enforcing anti-trust.
Does Amazon have a monopoly on the overpriced hipster grocery market? I suspect it would be difficult to convince a judge that Amazon has monopoly market share at this time.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/240481/food-market-share-of-the-leading-food-retailers-of-north-america/
ApatheticNoMore
6-18-17, 4:13pm
it's not share of any one market so much as number of markets it's in.
- Online retail of products sold direct from Amazon
- online retail of used and 3rd party products like ebay (with amazon marketplace)
- electronics (to a limited degree with kindle etc. - can't really imagine anyone even using Alexa but ...)
- media (with Amazon t.v. shows plus ownership of the washington post)
- payment market (like paypal with "amazon pay")
- cloud computing (probably the biggest source of Amazon's revenues, so huge)
- software development (but not at the level of microsoft/oracle yet),
- labor market services (to a limited degree with mechanical turk etc.)
- and now groceries.
And I have probably left out A LOT of things. Amazon is an iceberg and mostly we only see the tip with Amazon.com.
it's not share of any one market so much as number of markets it's in.
So, not a "monopoly"?
We shopped at WF in its first incarnation as just one tiny hippie health foods store in downtown Austin. Their current downtown headquarters store is the polar opposite - so large, crowded and frenzied that it feels more like a wild gastronomical orgy and makes me want to flee. For greater insight on the Amazon purchase, read the recent Texas Monthly interview with John Mackey. He refers to the hedge fund majority investors as "greedy bastards" so perhaps his feet were held to the fire and he had no other choice but to sell or possibly go private. In reality, he takes no salary as CEO and lives a fairly frugal life for a multi-millionaire. Personally, I find Amazon's reach more than a little troubling. Also, I wouldn't doubt that many of the service jobs connected with Amazon distribution, etc will be robotized in the near future.
If I can Amazon Prime groceries from Whole Foods, I'm a fan.
haha, that's exactly what I said to my DIL when she broke the news to me. Amazon Prime discounts on organic produce--I'm in! Maybe I should be upset because of the whole corporate thing, but Whole Foods was already a big corporation. I don't see a big difference between John MacKey heading up Whole Foods vs Jeff Bezos.
Now, if Amazon tried to take over Whole Earth in Princeton...then I'm protesting!
frugal-one
6-18-17, 8:07pm
Super excited here, Love both. I say I may never have to go to a brick and mortar store again.
This makes me totally sad/disgusted. I want to pick out my own produce and products. I want to interact with PEOPLE.
iris lilies
6-18-17, 8:20pm
This makes me totally sad/disgusted. I want to pick out my own produce and products. I want to interact with PEOPLE.
I have no interest in interacting with PEOPLE. No surprise there.
But buying items represented in a two dimensional way,on a digital screen, removes so much non-verbal information item that I wonder how subsequent generations will learn about physical properties of object. If you have never lifted a full, fresh, potatoe turgid with full cells, how will you know what a good and freash one is like?
I think often about clothes shopping online. I cant get the real heft and feel of fanric from an online description. And just because something is a higher price in that item class soes not mean it is quality fabric, it may just mean it is fashionable.
Yes, I have to touch, feel, smell, etc. to determine quality. Even saying cotton or wool is not clear enough to determine quality. It can be scratchy, cheap low end goods or silky smooth long lasting high end cotton goods. It could be thin woven wool or tight hand woven wool. I can only tell by feel.
Color is rarely shown clearly on screen. That is why I have large color cards of actual thread and fabric to order from. Costly for every product.
I only buy shoes online after I have already bought and worn from that manufacturer and even then it can be a crap shoot for sizing and feel.
I never liked WF's owner/management, pricing, or general atmosphere, and I'm very happy with Amazon's products and service, so this came as welcome news to me.
I'm pretty much the opposite. I do wish the days of the neighborhood food co-op were back, but in my region they are all gone. I have trouble faulting a company that promotes real food, treats their people decently on a relative scale, tries to source from local suppliers, donates some profits, and at least on the surface encourages some version of a healthy lifestyle. I know little enough of Amazon's business model to take sides, but they seem to fall into the traditional mega-corp model.
I also long for the days when Tom's of Maine might have actually been made by Tom, or Burt's Bees by Burt. I would tend to complain more about how the bulk of the successful small organic and health food businesses have been snapped up by Unilever, Coke, and Kraft Foods. I doubt there is much generous social responsibility to any of these companies business models.
Whole Foods may not be the old Wild Oats, or the Mom and Pop health food stores, or neighborhood coops, but what ever they have been is probably going to be less community oriented now.
I have no interest in interacting with PEOPLE. No surprise there. ...
I think often about clothes shopping online. I cant get the real heft and feel of fanric from an online description. And just because something is a higher price in that item class soes not mean it is quality fabric, it may just mean it is fashionable.
Haha--I'm with you on the people thing. Since I haven't been to my favorite thrifts lately, I've turned to ebay. I just got an excellent, pristine pair of (much needed) jeans and I couldn't be happier with them. I didn't take much of a chance, as they are from a manufacturer that I trust (Liz Claiborne) and that fits me. I paid $13.49 with shipping, which is maybe twice as much as they'd be at the thrifts, but they also didn't require multiple trips to find, so I think it's a wash. I love to browse, but if I'm going to have to forgo that, I'm glad there are on-line alternatives.
This may be a dumb question, but does this mean that Whole Foods will cease to be brick and mortar?
This may be a dumb question, but does this mean that Whole Foods will cease to be brick and mortar?
No, I don't think so.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/06/17/533239065/after-the-amazon-deal-what-will-shopping-at-whole-foods-feel-like
It just means Amazon now owns all their real estate. I don't think the stores will go away anytime soon but even here, they recently closed one. The grocery industry is undergoing huge upheavals anyway. Even Kroger posted a loss last quarter - first time after years of growth. I have looked at certain food items on Amazon but they are always more expensive that buying locally. I do however order my favorite Texas foods from the regional chain there only cause I can't get those things here in Colorado. I guess someday we will never have to leave the house for much of anything.
A friend commented yesterday that she is amazed at the amount of traffic coming each day into her little survey by UPS, Canada Post, etc. The one has to drive some distance for shopping, being able to order online with free delivery and easy return makes life much easier. Not sure how that works with groceries though although non-perishables would be no problem.
Sometimes the slightly higher price might be attributed to the cost of 'free delivery and return'. It also reduces the cost of going out to shop because it is easy to search online and the selection there is much greater than the 'brick and mortar' choices.
My needs are so little that I can shop within walking distance but do drive for picking up. I buy at a local supplier for meat year-round, and locally fruit and veggies when in season.
Another friend commented that I was not thinking of travel out of my country as much as before. I thought about it and realized in my response to her, "I don't need to as much. The world is coming to me." My HD productions of the Metopera, theatre, ballet and art galleries, Youtube presentations of great productions, online shopping/books/music, church services, ...
The world has changed dramatically. Sometimes I don't think that we are as aware of the huge changes as we possibly should be. I am not saying this is necessarily bad in any way but obviously can be, if misused.
My focus now is on my community and then the world which seems much closer.
Enough mental meandering:D
It's a rare week where I don't take advantage of my Amazon Prime membership. I'm not a big buyer of bean sprouts or tofu though.
It's a rare week where I don't take advantage of my Amazon Prime membership. I'm not a big buyer of bean sprouts or tofu though.
Me too. And I love Amazon Locker, where you can pick up your purchases at any hour of the day or night without having to worry about them being stolen off your porch. It's a bonus for Safeway, where mine is located, because it entices me to shop there.
Amazon Prime membership
Guess I'm an odd duck as I no longer see the value in Amazon Prime and will cancel when membership is up. I have tried to use it quite a bit this past year but my supposed 2 day delivery is only good on certain items which are often higher priced. I have ordered several items which were marked as made in USA but when arrived are labeled as made in China. And several that were obvious counterfeits of what they were supposed to be. It is like having a magic Genie though - I must admit - with the world of goods at your fingertips.
Guess I'm an odd duck as I no longer see the value in Amazon Prime and will cancel when membership is up. I have tried to use it quite a bit this past year but my supposed 2 day delivery is only good on certain items which are often higher priced. I have ordered several items which were marked as made in USA but when arrived are labeled as made in China. And several that were obvious counterfeits of what they were supposed to be. It is like having a magic Genie though - I must admit - with the world of goods at your fingertips.
Speaking of the world at your fingertips - I heard the Sears close to me is shutting down. Not surprising - not many people shop there. It's now weird thinking about millions of 3 inch thick catalogs mailed out several times a year, every year. And it actually being profitable.
Speaking of the world at your fingertips - I heard the Sears close to me is shutting down. Not surprising - not many people shop there. It's now weird thinking about millions of 3 inch thick catalogs mailed out several times a year, every year. And it actually being profitable.
Sears tried to rebrand years ago ("the softer side of Sears") but I don't think that was successful. Sears was never close to my top ten places to go clothes shopping. The only time I ever bought clothes there was when I brought my kids in for a photo shoot and I urgently needed a sweater for my son to wear in the picture.
Now it just seems very outdated as a brand. But I still like their appliances.
Speaking of the world at your fingertips - I heard the Sears close to me is shutting down. Not surprising - not many people shop there. It's now weird thinking about millions of 3 inch thick catalogs mailed out several times a year, every year. And it actually being profitable.
Not just the paper waste, but I was thinking about all those clip out order forms from catalogs and magazines. The processing labor savings has to be very large and I'd just guess the whole burdensome process might have served to reduce consumption. There was a certain pleasure of anticipation in receiving orders. I've never felt the need for the immediacy of Amazon Prime and usually keep a wishlist until I get enough for free shipping.
This makes me totally sad/disgusted. I want to pick out my own produce and products. I want to interact with PEOPLE.
Personally I don't shop to interact with people*. I invite a friend out for coffee or lunch if I want interaction. About the only bricks and mortar shopping I do anymore is food. We have safeway, a fruit and vegetable store and a great butcher all within a block of home so I doubt I"ll start amazon priming my groceries unless they make the pricing very enticing.
*I make an exception to this for the hot bear that works at the butcher shop... :) Unfortunately there are probably ten people who work at the butcher's so more often than not someone else assists me.
As a former wage-slave at the Wholefoods Deli, I am not really sure how I feel about the acquisition. I still have several friends that still work there, yet I don't know what they have told the employees. While I was there for four years, I could sense a big shift, yet didn't really know what it entailed, other than we all knew sales were down. It actually is a good company to work for, they paid their workers a decent wage for retail, full-time employees got health insurance and it has a pretty good vacation policy, but it is brutal, mind-numbing work and we were pertpeually short-staffed and finding quality employees was really, really hard.
I'm thinking I got out at the right time...
ApatheticNoMore
6-19-17, 9:49pm
Guess I'm an odd duck as I no longer see the value in Amazon Prime and will cancel when membership is up
never had a paid prime membership, but at times when I needed something fast (as opposed to my usual choice of slow shipping) have took on a trial prime membership, just cancel it before I was due to pay - something they expect people to do a lot, I'm sure.
ApatheticNoMore
6-19-17, 9:51pm
I'm thinking I got out at the right time...
oh yea was thinking about you today (thinking about the Whole Foods buyout) and thinking it's smart you got out. They're probably going to do layoffs, but who knows (as it won't be great for the customer experience if they do, no fun to shop somewhere understaffed, so it hardly seems a good move to do layoffs as far as keeping customers, but they might.).
It is a very different transaction when the purchase is financed by cash instead of debt. Companies that create huge amounts of debt buying other companies are most often the ones that later hit the news with their financial difficulties and slashed employees. This could be a very interesting situation.
I'm so glad I have the Market Basket chain in my area. It has good prices and happy employees who fought for and got the company president they wanted.
rosarugosa
6-20-17, 8:18pm
Yppej: I was thinking the same thing. Market Basket is a local treasure.
Read another local Austin interview and WF execs are actually ecstatic over the acquisition. Lots o changes coming no doubt.
Lots o changes coming no doubt.
Yep. Personally, I don't think Amazon wants to be full-bore in the grocery business; it's a tough business (ask Target, which has approached the business halfway for years now and is paying the price).
Going with WF gives Amazon a bunch of nice fairly-new brick-and-mortar locations and a brand that is somewhat insulated from rock-bottom pricing. It also gives Amazon a place to "showroom" -- I'll bet that, within a year or two, there will be a pickup desk for Amazon Now! (or whatever they call their one-hour service) and Prime orders; maybe a kiosk that sells Kindles, batteries, and memory cards; perhaps even a kiosk with fabric samples for their lines of clothing so you can, indeed, heft the fabric and check the color before ordering. You'll be able to pick up dinner or milk for tomorrow -- even if Amazon has to make those products loss-leaders, it may still be worth it to them. And who knows how WF will benefit from Amazon's knowledge of logistics and supply chains?
I don't know as I see this -- on balance -- as a negative. I'm a bit concerned about the "WALL-E"-ization of the world (muching 365-brand popcorn in front of the Amazon Prime TV series I'm watching on the TV I bought through Amazon...). But then I remember that, for everything they've done, Amazon has yet to turn a profit. Someday they'll have to and expositional moves like buying a grocery chain will have to justify themselves. It's easy to spend other people's money. :)
Me? I actually like food shopping because I like switching menus for what's fresh or on sale. But I know I'm not representaive of the rest of the U.S. in that regard.
Never Again
7-10-17, 2:44pm
I'm so glad I have the Market Basket chain in my area. It has good prices and happy employees who fought for and got the company president they wanted.
Yep...interesting to do price comparisons, especially when you can compare the exact item.
I just went to the new Whole Foods grand opening in Sudbury, MA. Bought a few good items that were at a DEEP discount for opening day. Jotted down a number of prices on things that WF sold that Market Basket also carries.
Went to my local Market Basket...about 30% cheaper for the exact same brands/items. And cheaper for produce - cut watermelon chunks $4.99/lb at WF, $2.49 at MB.
We got a Lucky's recently; the prices seem very high and it has really hurt the business of the local co-op.
I was hoping it would be more like Trader Joe's.
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