View Full Version : Sandwich generation thread
freshstart
6-27-17, 7:22pm
post your struggles, your wins here.
After today, I think I should invent a diaper bag for the sandwich generation. I'm now the only driver in the household, 2 sick parents. When we travel I have to carry their medical histories and list of meds, a notebook to write down what the doctor says, calendar to put next appts in, their pills, their Nooks, their bottles of water, my father's Glucagon pen, my mother's ice packs, plus all my stuff. My biggest purse is so heavy, I really think it is going to break. I would happily buy a tote with the needs of geriatrics in mind. If only I could sew or design stuff, lol. Right now all of it just falls to the bottom of my bag and I can find nothing. I know these are already on the market, but I think I could design a good medical records notebook system, as well.
If you are in a similar situation, I highly recommend this cooler: https://www.ebags.com/hproduct/ebags/crew-cooler-ii/204851?productid=10110545&sourceid=ADWPRODLU&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+Travel+Accessories+-+Branded&adcampaignid=603427366&adgroup=Travel+Accessories&adgroupid=29138777298&addisttype=gpla&adid=112560548658&kw=&gclid=COvhs-KT39QCFUWewAodla4Cpg Goes on sale all the time, really well laid out cooler to leave in the car for in between MD appts. Has paid for itself in us no longer eating out while we're running around.
anybody have a bag they'd recommend when you have a ton of stuff to carry?
Not there yet but I will be. My son is disabled and may never get out on his own, and my parents while still independent are approaching 80. My baby brother lives with them and takes care of heavy yardwork/housework, but he does not have and refuses to get a license. My parents fortunately realize some of their limitations and will no longer drive at night or park where they have to back up, but soon I expect to be driving them everywhere. My other brother is half a continent away.
Some of my coworkers are in the sandwich and all their vacation days go for errands with the elders. One woman wants to retire but has custody of her grandson. I don't know if that is due to the opioid epidemic or what. It has hit our area pretty hard.
I'm sorry you are going through this freshstart. I have a lot of admiration for people putting others first when being self-absorbed would be so much easier.
I have planned my first in years flying vacation as my mother's health seems pretty stable after a couple of close calls, but it will probably be my last.
Simplemind
6-27-17, 8:18pm
The last few years have been a challenge. I still have my kiddo at home, although for months we have hardly seen him except when he comes home to do laundry and swap out clothes. His girlfriend was having issues at home and he asked if she could move in and I told them that if they were old enough to play house they were old enough to do it in their own home. My husband takes care of his mom who was very thoughtful in downsizing and selling her home and moving into independent living close to us. Things have changed, she went into assisted living, didn't like it and we found her a beautiful adult foster home situation where she is very happy. Still............ we or he is taking her to at least one appointment or more a week and running other errands. We spent the last four years cleaning, selling etc my dad's estate as we juggled him in his home, then independent living, then an adult foster home for dementia. When he was in independent living one of us was with him for most of each day. We patched it together as long as we could and finally had to move him. He was then diagnosed with cancer so we are not sure which issue is going to win the race. Although I no longer need to attend to my dad every day I am there at least every couple of days. We have many appointments and I bring him hone for meals or we go out to his favorite spots. We keep our fingers crossed that our health holds out. We were just talking about this today. Neither of us remembers our parents taking care of their parents. None of our three kids want kids. Hope they keep young healthy friends around in their future.
My SIL just got her kids launched and out of the house and within a few weeks became sole caretaker of her 83yo mom who doesn't want to leave home. She works full time but drives 75 mi each way twice a week, grocery shops for her and takes her to doctor's appts. Cooks a weeks worth of meals to take to her. Pays her bills and who knows what else. Uses vacation time to do all this. I am waiting for her to burn out since this has been going on for more than a year. I did it as a younger person in my 30s with a small child in tow and nearly lost it at the time due to stress.
ApatheticNoMore
6-27-17, 8:24pm
well what if she does burn out, there isn't necessarily anything much in the way of alternatives if the older person is helpless (and not just taking advantage but genuinely helpless due to age), and if there are no other siblings or they won't help. I mean you can hire people with money, but without great wealth, there just aren't a lot of alternatives (can hope for Medicaid to pay for a home maybe?)
freshstart
6-27-17, 9:01pm
it's good to know you guys are out there. Hugs to everyone going through this.
I worked in home or hospice home care for 23 yrs and only once saw an adult private foster situation. IDK if our state pays for formal ones, if not they should, so much cheaper than a nursing home. I'm glad your dad is in a good one.
today the cardiologist said he would try to get my dad into cardiac rehab to get some strength back, he has neuropathy and keeps falling. And his primary is sending him to ortho for the horrible hip pain he is having. I hope a hip replacement is not the next step, we need a break, lol. But then again I hate to see him suffer. We saw the arthritis specialist yesterday, my dad has a disease that causes the spine to fuse together bone on bone and is very painful, he's going to think about trying some of the new biologicals on him. And also send him to this school that helps disabled drivers get behind the wheel again. he cannot turn his head at all so he does not drive. If we could adapt the car that would be great. My dad has so much wrong with him but he has a great team.
freshstart
6-27-17, 9:02pm
I have planned my first in years flying vacation as my mother's health seems pretty stable after a couple of close calls, but it will probably be my last.
I hope this works out and isn't your last
ToomuchStuff
6-28-17, 1:36am
With all the stuff you take, and since I am not sure if you ever do stairs (wheel differences), as well as all the medical conditions, I would look at something like B06ZXSFNH6 from Amazon. It is a bag/cart/cooler/seat combo thing with stair climbing wheels.
https://www.amazon.com/Climber-Trolley-Shopping-Foldable-Tailgate/dp/B06ZXSFNH6/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498627934&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=trailer+stair+climber+seat
Too depressed about my personal situation in the club sandwich right now to post about details, but thank you for a wonderful thread idea, freshstart. Will work up to it.
BikingLady
6-28-17, 5:35am
I am sorry and fully understand. I was on the Crazy Train as I posted often here a few years ago(ctg492). TN to MI to TN to MI to the breaking point. I am now at the point for self sanity of telling myself it is what it is. I am the only one for Dad (89) who is now ""only"" a 6 hour round trip every other week from one side of MI to the other and the daily phone calls. Which I take a breath before the issue of the day.
WHY did each of us end up with this issue? Did our folks expect or what us to have this burden? Will we learn from this and keep our kids from this for us?
iris lilies
6-28-17, 8:08am
I watched our close friend launch her child ( so we thought) and finally have long days of freedom, then her father became frail, mother sick. Fortunately they moved to assisted living so at least she didnt have to care for their house. Then her mother went through a series of health issues and died. Then her father became more frail. Then, her daughter, unmarried, produced a baby.
Now she is caretaking the baby a fair amoint and running to take care of her father who is increasingly frail, injured, and refuses to go to the nursing home side of the assisted living center. He is just on the edge and they wont insist.
my Father in law is the only parent remaining of our parents. He has a girlfriend ten years younger who lives with him, so she does a lot of caretakng. A few months ago they were both hospitalized at the same time. They are still living out on his farm, and even though he has some dementia, his dr cleared him to sit on the tractor and till, but he cant plant.
the girlfriend wants to pit a bid in on a retiremrnt community place, but his youngest son (not DH) says "not yet." So, his son spends a faiir amount of time out at the family farm, ut that seems to be his choice. He cant stand the girlfriend, so that makes it a bit difficult.
freshstart
6-28-17, 8:43am
I ended up with this issue because I chose it. I did it all day long for other people so how hard could it be for my own parents? I was very wrong. Between the 24/7 nature of it, the family dynamics and the fact that I am unwell, it is way harder than I had imagined. My mother always said she didn't want to be a burden on her children and says she would go into a nursing home. But I don't think she means it. And we've gone this far, it would be cruel to uproot her now, plus the cost. I did put my foot down and said she had to hire someone for showers because the heat of my own shower makes me dizzy and often leads to falls. that ended up working out really well.
I will definitely keep my kids from this
I am sorry and fully understand. I was on the Crazy Train as I posted often here a few years ago(ctg492). TN to MI to TN to MI to the breaking point. I am now at the point for self sanity of telling myself it is what it is. I am the only one for Dad (89) who is now ""only"" a 6 hour round trip every other week from one side of MI to the other and the daily phone calls. Which I take a breath before the issue of the day.
WHY did each of us end up with this issue? Did our folks expect or what us to have this burden? Will we learn from this and keep our kids from this for us?
I am definitely learning already. I will never do what my parents did and refuse to leave an area that is far distant from all of their kids and lacks any reliable form of public transportation. We are already planning to move closer to one of my sons, and may try to buy a rental near the other to have an anchor there.
TooSweetForMe
6-28-17, 9:23am
I take care of my Mom now because I love her, and I want to. My sister lives about an hour's drive from us, and she helps us whenever needed but really can't do the day-to-day care because she and her husband have their own issues. My DD is about a 4 to 6 hour drive with 2 small kids, but she comes up about once a month when she can get a weekend off. My son lives in Iowa with his wife and family but tries to come in about 2x a year. His other grandmother is also unwell and he does stuff for her also when he is in town. My nephew (sister's son) lives in Texas and he also has young kids, so he's not able to come in as often as he would like. Although, all 3 dropped everything last year when my Mom had her aneurysm last year to be with my sister and I during the first critical few days.
As for my step sisters........ don't EVEN get me started.
WHY did each of us end up with this issue?
In some cases...because we choose not to admit that we should prepare for older age issues. Some examples might be living way out in the sticks far from services (like my brother) or refusing to consider a move to assisted living even though the funds are there (like my MIL) or ignoring health issues while they are manageable (my neighbor with diabetes).
In some cases...because we choose not to admit that we should prepare for older age issues. Some examples might be living way out in the sticks far from services (like my brother) or refusing to consider a move to assisted living even though the funds are there (like my MIL) or ignoring health issues while they are manageable (my neighbor with diabetes).
The problem as I see it is not that we are not preparing for older age issues, it's my parents who did not and now seem unable to any longer. My husband's parents figured it out and there was only one scary time at the end where husband's step mother claimed they were broke and told the kids they would have to pay for the nursing home. She was wrong; he went into a VA home for exactly one day and then passed away.
I guess you can blame us for the kids' problems in a way, but I take no responsibility for my parents' refusal to plan and see the impact of their actions on the rest of the family.
I think everyone our age (60's and up) spends a lot of time trying to figure out the future, and how not to be a burden.
ApatheticNoMore
6-28-17, 10:20am
WHY did each of us end up with this issue? Did our folks expect or what us to have this burden? Will we learn from this and keep our kids from this for us?
in some ways it's just the continuation of how it's always been, selfish parents who can never really see things from the perspective of their kids and their well-being because they are too wrapped up in their own psychological issues AND who can't even really take care of themselves in many ways because of this either. That was true when I was 8 and maybe it will be true in the end.
Do wish my dad wasn't dead as he was always the more grounded one on practical matters. Not caretaking, but fear it. True it might never come to pass, it's not for us to know ahead of time how long anyone will live etc.. Not sure what I'd do maybe ask to work part-time (which is sometimes possible) but that has other problems (like lack of benefits often times etc.)
I guess you can blame us for the kids' problems in a way, but I take no responsibility for my parents' refusal to plan and see the impact of their actions on the rest of the family.
it really just boils down to: "you should have chosen your parents better" doesn't it? This is completely stupid! We need more social support for this period, many countries probably have a better social safety net for this, we are not preparing as a society for old age issues.
Nor is there likely to be much solace in thinking of one's impact on others as I don't even have any kids so who cares really. It's like worrying about clutters impact on kids, shrug, no I will have to deal with my parents hoarding, but whoever finds my rotting corpse can just clear it out as far as I'm concerned.
where husband's step mother claimed they were broke and told the kids they would have to pay for the nursing home. She was wrong; he went into a VA home for exactly one day and then passed away.
eventually that's the thing Medicaid might actually pay for. But maybe not if Republicans get their way. Yes fine our politics have most definitely failed.
I mean one may be an ordinary fairly successful person with a career, but that's really not enough success, to not fail at this, would need to be far richer or something, to save everyone else, who did not plan for themselves.
BikingLady
6-28-17, 10:38am
See my Mom was the great planner on everything, Bookkeeper, Budgeter,Frugal, Planning for when Dad passed because all men go before women...Then when mom got sick and near the end she said to me " It was not suppose to be this way". Mom went to every single assisted living home open house, she was a nurse in the nursing home, had that stupid Long Term Care insurance( cover zero). But when it was time nothing was done or planned as it was not suppose to end this way she thought.
What I hope I have learned is Don't wait too long to plan or move or whatever, make sure spouse or other knows the plan and how to do daily life without you. IF it all had turned out the other way, I actually think mom would have been harder to deal with then dad.
iris lilies
6-28-17, 11:31am
This year my sister in law, only 60 years old, mved into a retirement community and I am so glad she did. She lived on a farm with her hisband who has pretty serious dementia. But he drives. She wont ride with him and has not for years. (!)
He still farms, sometmes haphazardly. There was talk that he wasnt going into town with her to the retirement community, and I dont know where he is living. But
I am proud of her for picking herself up and moving. She jas many health problems herself. They have money to pay for whatever they want ro pay for, and it was making me crazy that they were still living outside of easy public transportation.
Good for her. I have told my parents, who do not want to go to assisted living, that we qualify for a senior community and maybe we'll move there, and they can move there to be closer to us!
I am a bit on the other side, my parents don't need care and my mom ran a senior daycare so she has super planned that they will not need us to care for them as much as possible. However she does need a knee replacement in fall. My kids are grown and I have 35 vacation days built up so I offered to come out. Okay we don't offer in my family, my mom just comes in and does things. She and her sisters nicknamed themselves the B-sisters because they know they take charge and take over anything in their path. I started by offering and then told her I could be just as bossy as she and her sisters are so plan on me coming out for awhile. I am not coming out for weeks, I know she has my dad and her sisters, however I do want to help a little. Geez,
Teacher Terry
6-28-17, 2:26pm
My Dad had a major stroke at 59 and my Mom cared for him for 14 years. E bought the house next door and Ihelped too as I was a SAHM. My Mom watched my 3 kids so I could go to college. It was a win-win for everyone. My Mom sold the house and moved into an apartment. For the 2 years before moving she and I got rid of 30 years of stuff. Not hoarders but had all our kids stuff in attic and basement. From 78-90 she had some major bouts of cancer and by then I lived across the country, my sister an hour away and my brother 6. I would use all my vacation to fly home as needed. The siblings also helped and by the time my Mom needed someone to stay with her for a month at a time they were both retired. They did not help with my Dad at all so I did not feel bad that they in the end did more for my Mom. After one major surgery my Mom went into a nursing home to rehab and they almost killed her a few times (wrong meds, etc) and she never went into one again. My Grandma ended up in a nursing home and my Mom and Aunt went everyday to see her. They alternated days so they each only had to go half the week. WE have downsized to a 1 story and as low maintenance as we can get.
freshstart
6-28-17, 3:17pm
don't get me started on hoarding, my mom has OCD with a hoarding component. I don't know how she even sleeps in her room. I will never do that to my kids, any clutter will be gone to the best of my ability.
She's OCD on taking meds and will stand there for an hour go over and over her pills. SHe's better if someone just stands next to her but this is the one thing I don't have much patience for. I understand it, I empathize wit it, I just cannot stand it.
Simplemind
6-28-17, 7:58pm
I had my son when I was 39. He has watched all I have gone through with my parents the last few years. He was pretty stressed about it one day and told me he didn't ever think he would be able to take care of me the way I have taken care of them. I told him that he would never have to worry about that. Even though we plan on staying in our home for at least another 10 years (we are in our early 60's) after having to go through all our parents stuff we have really started to downsize ours. We have also sat down with the kids and have gone over what is what, where it can be found and our wishes. Granted, my dad told me his wishes and it wasn't possible. He wanted to stay in his home and have somebody move in. He was out in the boonies, very isolated with dementia and I just couldn't do it. None of us could leave our lives to be out there and none of us were able to take him in due to various circumstances. Thank God he has savings and we don't worry about his care. He is in a lovely place and they even let him keep his cat to the tune of an extra $500 a month. I don't care, he loves his cat. At any rate, I don't ever want my kid to move me in or worry about what he should do. We will never leave a mess... He used to tell me that he would change my diapers when I got old and now he teases me and says he will make sure that I'm wearing the best damned diapers being changed by somebody else.
freshstart
6-28-17, 8:12pm
that's a good conversation you had
Is Loosechickens still participating? I think her idea of downsizing to an RV in retirement is looking pretty good.
I don't think I've mentioned it here because I haven't been back that long. But DW and I less-than-half-jokingly say that, when we get to that point, we're going to go on endless cruises. Meals provided in as social a setting as one wants, housekeeping several times a day, entertainment/activities, lots of options for exercise, different scenery, accessible rooms, a kind of enforced voluntary simplicity, ... If one isn't hung up on shopping, it's not hard to cruise for around $100 a day -- way cheaper than a nursing home or many assisted-living facilities. :~)
Not to make light of the situations people are in, though.
My "sandwich" time came about 15 years ago. It was not long after my divorce, work had kicked into an unsustainable gear (little did we know it would get even worse), and my mom and very ill brother were in crisis (this before both of them knew the extent of his illness). My sister was of no help; she "saved herself" by removing herself from the family for several years after that. XW and I never had kids and I was never the primary caregiver (not a personal strength; I know this about myself) but I was the one who got them both to doctor's appointments every week, got my non-driving mother where she needed to go for errands, fixed some of the things that managed to get broken in my mom's/brother's apartment, tried to figure out where they would go when they were evicted, and dealt with many of the issues they encountered once they'd moved. Thank goodness they were never more than one-half hour away by car. It was an emotionally-draining time that I know cost me a couple of longer-term friendships but I literally did not have the time to deal with more than I had on my plate.
At the same time, I have friends with elderly parents (or parents-in-law) who live in far-flung rural Minnesota or Wisconsin and kids in various stages of launch or re-entry along with careers and marriages they need/want to nurture. They have a somewhat different set of worries about the situation. Just not a great situation for anyone.
freshstart
6-29-17, 9:22am
I like the cruise idea and they are handicapped accessible!
I'm sorry about your mom and brother
I recall reading an article about an elderly woman who lived on cruise ships. She thoroughly enjoyed her chosen lifestyle and as you said, it cost less than most assisted living places.
BikingLady
6-29-17, 4:11pm
Yes I have heard of the endless vacation so to say, I am sure there are so many options as long as health holds out.
I have a friend who remodeled her home to make it handicap accessible, roll in shower and such so she can stay home if the need be. Another friend 70, redid her bath and kitchen and I asked if that was what she had done too. NO she says if I am that bad off I would not be here. so to each their own I imagine. I watched my folks have a spotless home, dad's gardens were so wonderful. Now the place has not been kept up in so long, the gardens that were started in 1956 are nothing but weeds and grass. I say If I can not maintain then I do not want it. May I remember that.
Simplemind
6-29-17, 10:07pm
I tried to think back on when my parents property went from feeling vibrant and cared for to stagnant to neglected/Mrs. Havisham. I put the turn right around mid to their late 60's. So we decided to stay ahead of it and bit the bullet this month and hired a housekeeper. Granted, we are starting with once a month and it ups our game because of course we start cleaning before they are coming...... We spend the majority of our time outside on our yard. We looked at that and this year (we are in our early 60's) we hired a landscaping company to get it whipped in shape in spring and now we are maintaining. Spring is usually pretty hard on us with clean up and planting. Now we only have planting and then nurturing. We figure we can keep this patched together for at least 10 years and then assess where we are. I so wish my parents had done that.
BikingLady
6-30-17, 5:25am
Simplemind, good for you. This year I hired a lawn service. I felt weird the other day working my tail off with a chain saw ( my summer hobby) while the fellow cut grass.
TooSweetForMe
6-30-17, 7:57am
Mom was able to get half of her MRI done yesterday - they did the part w/o the contrast. She had 10 mg of valium before the MRI was done, and she was STILL freaking out and had to get out of the tube when the first part was done. We're going to go for another appointment one day next week for the 2nd part, maybe.
Williamsmith
6-30-17, 10:33am
My father and mother were living in a huge house when he passed away unexpectedly. Prior to that, they signed the title to the house over to my brother and I. I didn't realize the consequences when they came to me and told me this is what they decided to do.
My brother later informed me that he was selling his house and he and his wife and kid we're moving in with mom due to a financial crisis of some sort. My mother has survived ovarian cancer and colorectal cancer. My brother has basically taken her to all her doctors appointments and been primary caregiver although she is quite independent. She is 84 and still drives, cuts grass and gets around.
I live 100 miles away and visit a couple times a month. We talk on the phone a lot. On the surface things seem under control. But there are signs of problems to come. The house is in need of repairs. The SIL has accused me of accepting "rent" payments from mom when I visit. This is utterly ridiculous. There is a lot of jealousy about my personal financial security as compared to their tenuous life. I have offered to move my mother to her own condo in my retirement community and care for her. She refuses to consider leaving her mansion and the town she grew up in.
My brothers health is quite bad. This could go a variety of different ways but I know my wife would probably divorce me if I allowed my mother to move in to care for her. They both dislike each other. Time will reveal what tortures I have ahead of me.
ApatheticNoMore
6-30-17, 10:49am
I would worry about this less if I figured it would happen in my 60s (though true I may not be physically as strong then depending), I think it can instead force one to sacrifice much of their career in the 40s etc. which is actually major earning years (and my bf has such financially struggles - it's because there job sucks basically - that trust me I do need to support myself). But since it is just fear at this point, and not something I can actually change much either way anyway if it came to pass, I can merely do the usual sensible things, focus on my career and save money now etc .. Which isn't sufficient perhaps, but there are not necessarily any rabbits to be pulled out of hats here.
It's not fair and I don't deserve it because much of the problem comes from a sibling that in the past and currently is basically bankrupting my mom (while I get nothing from her now, pretty much ever, and will end up paying for this in the future probably), which will leave no money for anything anyway. Which is actually the root of my worry, that a sibling is actively right now bankrupting my mom with ever growing credit card debt etc. that I see no means to solve. And this really does bother me a lot, it's all so messed up that I dwell on it. But there is little I can do.
freshstart
6-30-17, 11:38am
it's really rough when siblings aren't on the same page.
Two years ago when I was first hospitalized, my father fell in the driveway and was in ICU with 3 brain bleeds. We both got discharged and it was a nightmare. I was falling when I stood up, my father was falling and was confused and became combative and my mother decided to take the train to crazy town in the midst of this crisis. I reached a point where I could not hoist my father off the floor one more time. I had been emailing and calling my brother, all with no response. I reached out one more time and begged for help, never responded. We've never spoken about those 5 days of utter hell but I haven't forgiven or forgotten.
He just started sending $500 a month to "help out" and now he is the Golden Child. Meanwhile, nobody mentions that he owes them over 15k that has borrowed over the years. I love my brother but he has no clue what goes on around here.
Here to read all of your good advice. My youngest just turned 18 and is going to college this fall. My mom is still in her own home (we live in the same town). My brother and his family are in the same town, too. My mother is becoming more and more dependent upon family to clean up after her, take her to appointments, grocery shop, etc. She is adamant about staying in her own home. The thing, is, however, it's going from just dirty to almost squalor. She in incontinence and spends 22 of 24 hours a day in her lift chair. She hardly ever gets dressed. My husband was there earlier this week and said he saw what he believes to be is a trail of feces from her chair to her bathroom.
My brother tried to hire a housekeeper, but mom kicked her out. It's time to have the "come to Jesus" meeting with her. Either she allows a housekeeper in (and perhaps some other help) or it's time to move. It's too much for the family to maintain her home (housework, yard work, etc.) and our own. She sees herself as independent in some weird way. I'm going to have to tell her that no one wants to come visit her anymore because of her home. Prayers and good thoughts accepted.
(I slipped on the steps in my own home Saturday and broke my leg, so I'm learning patience and some empathy for her mobility issues, however, that means I can't clean her house even a little bit for a couple of months. She still needs to quit being so damn stubborn, though).
Teacher Terry
6-30-17, 2:13pm
Becky: I am so sorry that you broke your leg and then have all this stuff with your Mom on top of it. I was lucky that my Mom planned ahead for her and my Dad. WE are doing the same for our kids.
freshstart
6-30-17, 2:24pm
Good luck with the come to Jesus meeting! I'm so sorry you broke your leg.
I lucked into my parents getting help. I got a cleaning lady twice a month when the kids were young and I had pretty bad depression and was working full time. It felt like after working and cooking and cleaning there was none of me left for the kids. Cost me $60 a month, best thing I ever did. She is incredibly helpful and kind, easy going personality, you can't help but like her. So when my parents were struggling with my dad doing everything and failing, I gently pushed my housekeeper on them and they accepted it. It was touch and go for a while because I was raised with their values- be independent and work hard, healthy, they would NEVER have hired help no matter how much money they had. They ended up loving her so much, she is truly a family friend, as well as her husband.
It worked out so well, that when it was time to hire an aide for showering for my mom that we approached the cleaning lady. She said yes and even though she doesn't have special training, she does a great job. As my dad has deteriorated quite rapidly over the past two years, I've gotten everything hired out, the lawn, snow removal, etc. He has a low cardiac ejection fraction and when he needed an implantable defibrillator, they told him he could drop dead any day. For some reason that was the first time what a doctor said about his prognosis clicked and from that point on he accepted help without giving me a hard time. He had to fail a lot though before he got to that point- falling multiple times while cutting the grass, chest pain while snow blowing, etc. I think sometimes they have to fail to see that they are fallible and need help. I cannot tell you how many times the words "if you fall and break a hip, it's all over, you go to a nursing home," have left my lips.
SteveinMN
6-30-17, 10:07pm
it's really rough when siblings aren't on the same page.
There were a few years I had some really choice thoughts about my sister for vanishing. But I came to realize that she was paying a price for being absent from the day-to-day crises -- and that she'd have to pay it when there was no longer any negotiating it (i.e., when my mom and/or brother passed on without her presence). Fortunately for me, things improved and eventually my sister came around and now it's kind of like she never left. (Though I know she did.)
Either she allows a housekeeper in (and perhaps some other help) or it's time to move. [snip] She sees herself as independent in some weird way. I'm going to have to tell her that no one wants to come visit her anymore because of her home.
Prayers, indeed. That whole "independence" thing is a tough nut to crack.
Most of us (and especially you right now, beckyliz, with your broken leg) understand that we're no longer as capable physically or mentally as we used to be. Time does not improve that. I think we adjust by sliding the measurement scale. Sometimes we move it; sometimes others do it for us. I know people not much older than I who no longer drive at night. Or on the highway. But they still drive. They're still "independent". Until they can no longer drive at all. Handing over those keys seems like a death sentence. Because, until then, you could choose to drive. If you had to.
My mom fought using a walker, tooth and nail, until she was helped to realize ;) that it enabled her to remain more independent than just doddering around no more than 50 feet at a time before resting. "Independent" got scaled back to include the assistive device.
beckyliz, I suspect your mother considers herself "independent" because she still lives on her own and she probably has downgraded the importance of keeping the house really clean -- or feels she's keeping up with it as best she can. DW and I have had issues with that with both of our mothers (no fathers alive). Mine didn't realize that all the folks coming in to help my brother are mandated reporters and the place looked ... unclean and overstuffed and that that would affect his ability to stay in the house (which she wants). She's become surprisingly good about decluttering and has finally accepted some help in cleaning things like ceiling fans that she'll never reach again. DW's mother has adjusted by making her life smaller but it's finally become small enough that she realizes she needs some help. Even then, however, it's minimized: "I don't need much help. I can load the dishwasher. I just need someone to unload it."
I cannot tell you how many times the words "if you fall and break a hip, it's all over, you go to a nursing home," have left my lips.
Whatever we have to do, eh? Sometimes people need to see the choice very clearly. And I cannot tell you the number of friends I have who've had to issue ultimata like those to people they care about, whether it was about moving out of a farmstead or to getting a home health aide or moving to assisted living. Tough conversations. But we have to have them.
My folks do not want to leave their farmstead. I think this is probably the hardest move because you have become part of the land if you have been there long enough. I know they pray that they will be able to die there.
Speaking of independence, my dad is fighting oxygen as an assistive measure.
This is one reason I can't bring myself to move there--I would feel responsible, and they will not really listen to what I have to say, so its responsibility without any authority to make something happen.
freshstart
7-1-17, 12:43pm
my mother fought hard about oxygen and I remember thinking, "I'll never be like that." Then I had a sleep study and needed CPAP but also oxygen. I accepted the CPAP because I'm fat but oxygen, no way! Then they showed me that my oxygen level was in the 60s when I slept and I accepted it real quick, lol.
"This is one reason I can't bring myself to move there--I would feel responsible, and they will not really listen to what I have to say, so its responsibility without any authority to make something happen"- exactly this
my mother fought hard about oxygen and I remember thinking, "I'll never be like that." Then I had a sleep study and needed CPAP but also oxygen. I accepted the CPAP because I'm fat but oxygen, no way! Then they showed me that my oxygen level was in the 60s when I slept and I accepted it real quick, lol.
"This is one reason I can't bring myself to move there--I would feel responsible, and they will not really listen to what I have to say, so its responsibility without any authority to make something happen"- exactly this
Thanks, freshstart, I feel such guilt about this.
Glad you got the oxygen!
try not to feel guilty, often times people have to fail and have their own personal come to Jesus moment. I saw this in Hospice over and over- refusal of pain meds, refusal of oxygen and equipment, etc. Then something would happen to cause them great discomfort and they would suddenly accept all the things they had fought for so long. Nothing the nurse or doctor or family member said made a difference, they had to come to the realization that it was time for xy or z on their own.
you would think 3 brain bleeds from a fall then two years of repeated falls would've convinced my dad he needed to use a walker. He even had to have back surgery because of one of the falls, still no walker. Then he fell in the driveway, we didn't know he was out there. All of a sudden a group of 5 elderly women walkers came into the house dragging him, they had found him in the driveway. He fell again when he got inside. Being hauled in by all those women did the trick, he now (mostly) uses a walker. I ranted til I was blue in the face, at least 5 different doctors told him he had to use one and it took these women to make him finally realize. Don't feel guilty, you are not the problem
Teacher Terry
7-1-17, 3:46pm
We were very good friends with a couple and he had terminal cancer at 66 and she had 8 bouts of cancer over 12 years and early Alzheimer's. He had adult kids in another state and she had no family left. I told him more then once he had to find someone to become his wives guardian for when he was gone because being a ward of the state is not pretty ( I was a SW at one time). I offered to do it. Finally after months of him doing nothing -3rd conversation at this point-I said I will never bring it up again but you are dying and she will be in a bad place when that happens. A few days later he gets the papers and we all sign them. Within a few months he is too sick to care for her or himself and moves into his son;s home and I put her in a decent home. He died within a few months and we went to visit her often and took charge of her care. Her cancer came back and we did not treat it. Even hospice did things I told them not too. They were giving her a drug that I had told them not to because it made her neck and head pull down and to the side. When I noticed what was happening I confronted them and they claimed no other drug could be used. I fired them and got a new one that said of course there were other drugs.
yikes, Teacher Terry, that was very kind of you
Thanks, all, for your understanding and suggestions. My brother and husband took her into the ER today because she twisted her leg the same day I broke mine and was finally willing to go get it looked at. I'm not sure if they'll let her come home or make her stay or go to rehab, or what. My brother is thinking (hoping) that at some point soon, a social worker will become involved in her care and we can then have our "Jesus" meeting. I know that's perhaps taking a chicken way out, but, as you know, we can talk until we're blue in the face and it will fall on deaf, stubborn ears.
Good news for me today - x-ray this morning shows the same as it was last week right after my fall. I can start to put some weight on my right leg as I feel comfortable to do so. God bless whoever invented knee walkers.
glad you got good news for you and glad your mom is somewhere she can get help, fingers crossed on the social worker
glad you got good news for you and glad your mom is somewhere she can get help, fingers crossed on the social worker
Indeed. beckyliz, know that you can take your mother's doctor aside and tell him/her what you're seeing. It's your observation, not necessarily only your judgement. (S)He may be able to intervene with a social worker (who may not have more to do than start the conversation) or serve as someone your mother trusts.
And, beckyliz, I hope you recover quickly, too.
Simplemind
7-4-17, 11:48am
Tybee you are so right about becoming part of the land. I am still struggling with this. My parents also had the fantasy of living out their lives on their property and dying there. They were so attached to that fantasy they refused to have a discussion of any other scenario. Mom was able to die there but when dad started to go downhill I could not make it happen for him without it railroading my life. Still.............. I am so saddened about having to sell all the property. Many changes are going on there and many of them positive but I can't make myself drive out to look. Other family members keep trying to talk to me about it and I don't want to know. Thankfully my dad no longer asks. My husband rides out every month or so and takes pictures and says that if I want to see one day I can. He is fascinated with all the McMansion building going on. I just want to remember it as it was as I deal with the daily guilt of taking dad away from it.
it sounds like ignorance is bliss in this situation.
It is a crying shame how many of us feel guilty for our parents failure to plan or irrational choices. It's hard enough being a caregiver but to feel guilt on top of it is really tough.
we've been saying for months that we are going to sit down and go over the will, the insurance, determine if my mom and I could stay here if my dad died, where we would go if we could not, etc. But I cannot get them to sit down and do it. I could never be that sick and not have a plan in place if not for me, at least for my spouse. They have no MD appts Thurs so Thurs is D Day here.
Went to my dad's today. Husband did all the yard work and cleaned gutters. I did some inside cleaning. Took pie and muffins and fruit for him. Paid Property taxes and dad was happy. That was it then the three hours home, but better then most visits.
Posts like this that that perhaps now or maybe eventually affect so many, are good for the soul. It is in a strange way good to know we are not alone.Our questions of Why and How, our fears and quilt are not imagination, what will happen if...
We are an open-faced sandwich, so need to cultivate some of those healthy young friends that Simple Minds mentioned earlier. :)
We're just starting to deal with some stuff with my Mom, who is experiencing increasing memory loss. Luckily she, me and my sister are all on the same page with values and wishes.
DH's sister & husband live with DH's Mom, who always said DSIL would get the house, so the 3 brothers are a bit bitter and are like "fine, then she's all yours." MIL doesn't seem to understand what she is doing to the family dynamics, how come sons don't come over more often and why they have harsh words with their sister. I've always been close to DMIL and DSIL and DBIL, so I've tried to pull things together and keep telling DH that the relationships with the people he loves are the important thing. I wouldn't be estranged from my sister for millions, and certainly none of the legacies in our world will come anywhere close to that. We have two close friends who are brothers and have been estranged for YEARS over a lousy $3000. from their mother's estate. I would gladly fork out the $3000 if I thought it could make things right between them. Such a damn shame.
That is a sad situation. I can understand both sides. I hope they can come together and resolve it.
Because I'm on disability and took a huge income drop, the elder law attorney suggested my dad leave me as beneficiary to one of his insurance policies (about 90k). Partially to help me financially and partially because I will have shouldered the burden of their care with very little help from my brother. Since insurance is not part of the will, the attorney suggested not telling my brother this is happening (I'm the estate executor) so we don't become estranged from each other. My brother makes excellent money, close to 15xs what I make. But now my mother feels guilty and wants to tell him. On a good day, my brother would say, "go ahead, I am getting plenty from the rest of the estate," on a bad day, our relationship would end. It's a crap shoot and I personally think the less said about it the better. Like my dad said, "I don't see Matt picking me up from the floor." Tough call, at first I felt guilty. Then came the times when I begged my brother to come home for a few days because my dad was falling so much and was combative and he did not respond to any form of communication. Then I think, screw him, I deserve the extra money.
iris lilies
7-5-17, 9:56pm
That is a sad situation. I can understand both sides. I hope they can come together and resolve it.
Because I'm on disability and took a huge income drop, the elder law attorney suggested my dad leave me as beneficiary to one of his insurance policies (about 90k). Partially to help me financially and partially because I will have shouldered the burden of their care with very little help from my brother. Since insurance is not part of the will, the attorney suggested not telling my brother this is happening (I'm the estate executor) so we don't become estranged from each other. My brother makes excellent money, close to 15xs what I make. But now my mother feels guilty and wants to tell him. On a good day, my brother would say, "go ahead, I am getting plenty from the rest of the estate," on a bad day, our relationship would end. It's a crap shoot and I personally think the less said about it the better. Like my dad said, "I don't see Matt picking me up from the floor." Tough call, at first I felt guilty. Then came the times when I begged my brother to come home for a few days because my dad was falling so much and was combative and he did not respond to any form of communication. Then I think, screw him, I deserve the extra money.
Your mother will do what she can to exercise dysfunctional control in the lives of her immediate family members. There is nothing you can do about it. So sorry!
I think it is cool that there is a life insurance policy of some substance that will exist outside of any estate of theirs. Yes, you deserve it!
freshstart
7-6-17, 10:58am
after seeing that in print, I feel guilty all over again, lol
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-17, 1:36pm
No, you more than deserve that money (not that we get what we deserve in this life, but I hope you do get the money).
after seeing that in print, I feel guilty all over again, lol
You should not. The suggestion to name you was made by someone both your parents and you trust, presumably at no benefit to him/her. Your parents are of sufficient mind that they can make their own financial decisions, correct? So they've made the decision. For the sake of family peace I would not go out of my way to mention the decision to your brother. But you don't need to feel guilty about your parents' choice -- or your choice in taking care of them or your brother's choice in not taking care of your parents.
freshstart
7-7-17, 12:23pm
that puts it in perspective, thank you
I sort of see this both ways, freshstart. I am definitely of the mind as Steve that it is their money and they can do with it as they will. But I also think it is painful when one sibling is perceived as "getting more" for whatever reason. My mother is like your mother, of the mind that she should always do for one exactly what she does for the others. For her,that is fair, and she would never want to leave more to any one child, for reasons of fairness. Maybe your mom was raised like that, to think that equality of inheritance was very important. Even though my brother has been cruel to her at times, it is a point of pride with her that she would never disinherit a child or deviate from that even split, which to her is how she was raised.
So maybe that is why your mother feels guilty and wants to tell him. I can see my mother doing the same thing. I can't imagine her ever leaving more to any one child, even though as I said, it is not based on how they have acted or cared for her.
She may have different ideas of equity, that's all.
But I hope she doesn't tell him, because I can see him reacting exactly as you state (and exactly how my brother reacts!)
Teacher Terry
7-7-17, 1:56pm
FS: I totally agree with Steve.
I can see it from both sides, Tybee and yes, my mom is that kind of person. But my brother's complete lack of caring about what is going on with my parents, even to just be a sounding board to me, is frankly cruel and you get out what you put in in my father's mind. I just keep reminding myself of that week from utter hell and his non-response when I feel guilty.
I can see it from both sides, Tybee and yes, my mom is that kind of person. But my brother's complete lack of caring about what is going on with my parents, even to just be a sounding board to me, is frankly cruel and you get out what you put in in my father's mind. I just keep reminding myself of that week from utter hell and his non-response when I feel guilty.
Please don't feel guilty--there is absolutely no reason to feel guilty, and your parents are so lucky to have your help!
TooSweetForMe
7-9-17, 11:54am
We had a double decker sandwich generation this weekend - my DD and her family were here for the weekend. Her DF cleaned out the garage for Mom and me yesterday, and the next time they are here we will start on organizing what's left in the garage. 4 year old spent the day with her bio-dad and his family who live about an hour away on Saturday because her great-grandmother on his side was in town and had never had a chance to see her in person. But other than that, I had a 4 year old and a 2 year old in the house from Friday night until about an hour ago. Forgot what it was like.
I think people should reward those who were helpful to them, and leave the absolute minimum to the neglectful--even better with an explanation in the will. I say this, of course, from the position of a non-parent.
Jane, I think many parents are not wired that way, because of how they were brought up. I also think that sometimes parents can be neglectful, abusive, and cruel at times when children are growing up, resulting in children not being able to be around them as adults, and therefore meaning that they are not going to put themselves in a position close to the parent to be helpful, as they just can't, without destroying themselves. I think sometimes parents use inheritance as a way to continue to be abusive.
I think it is really, really complicated, and we never know the whole story, and the same children get different parents, depending on what is going on at the time they are small.
iris lilies
7-10-17, 10:10am
I think people should reward those who were helpful to them, and leave the absolute minimum to the neglectful--even better with an explanation in the will. I say this, of course, from the position of a non-parent.
Sometimes the "neglectful" one (i.e. Not interfering, not busy bodying their way into the senior's life) IS the most helpful one. I am sure a lot of elderly parents feel this way.
freshstart
7-10-17, 4:53pm
I wish my parents would sit down and say to my brother and I, "look, this is what we need. What are each of you willing or able to do?" Maybe if my brother knew they needed so much help, he'd throw money at the problem, say pay for my mom's twice a week aide to shower her. I don't think he has a clue how hard it is but he's also not asking to know, either. And not responding in crisis situations. So a meeting would probably be futile.
I wish they would, too, freshstart, a meeting would be really good. And if your brother wants to participate by paying for help, that would be aokay by me!
My brother just wants to start trouble and demand they do things, but he doesn't want to pay anything and he doesn't want to help himself; he wants to order me and my other brother to do it, since we "live closer." even though he is rich and not working.
Teacher Terry
7-10-17, 5:46pm
Sometimes the "neglectful" one (i.e. Not interfering, not busy bodying their way into the senior's life) IS the most helpful one. I am sure a lot of elderly parents feel this way.
A lot of old people would be in nursing homes without their kids help.
There's laissez-faire and there's neglectful. I don't have much trouble distinguishing between the two.
iris lilies
7-10-17, 6:52pm
There's laissez-faire and there's neglectful. I don't have much trouble distinguishing between the two.
There is a post over on the MMM website in recent days from a young man who is concerned about his grandmother's apparent spend Ng. He suspected she was sending money out to scammers. He said his father has access to grandma's ban accounts.
Just yesterday he came back on the ntread to relate hat his father checked the bank account and saw the granny had withdrawn $200,000 since January 2017 and wired it thru Walmart to places unknown. Somewhere in there a Walmart clerk talked to her manager about this and they alerted grandma's family.
But it is granny's money, no?
Actually, the best answer on that thread was the one that said: granny should,be able to make her own decisions about where to send her money. But if the reason for sending the money is fraudulent, time to set up barriers around her.
My mother with Alzheimer's disease loved vacuum cleaners and bought expensive ones she couldnt operate. But that wasnt fradulent, she got a solid product at an inflated price.
She ordered custom drapery for all of her windows, even the little kitchen window above her sink. Not fradulent, just excessive. And yes the nice lady decorators eho bisited her upsold her like crazy.
She liked to send money to one of those Native American Children's charities that advertises in the back of magazines. That isnt fradulent, exactly.
We had to sit on our hands/mouths while she thre away this money in her dotage. It was her money.
ApatheticNoMore
7-10-17, 6:59pm
If someone is able to legally declare someone mentally incompetent to manage their money then odds are they probably are. There is likely a reason such legal mechanisms exist. Of course even when it doesn't meet that full burden of proof, it might be their money, but if wasting it means they will require a bailout later on, the person who will do the bailing out has reasons to be concerned.
Teacher Terry
7-10-17, 7:31pm
Usually when people start spending $ like that they are getting dementia. I would definitely step in because the person is being taken advantage of. Yes if the person is bad enough you can have them declared incompetent. At that point it does not matter whose money it is. APN: is right that the worst thing would be if that person wasted all their money and then couldn't afford the care they would need down the road.
My dad has had a couple of strokes from brain bleeding. It has affected mostly his memory, but even he knows he has trouble with his finances. My sister and I have power of attorney which dad agreed to. So I make sure his bills are paid and his finances are in order. We make sure he has $500 or so walking around money so he can spend that as he wishes. Other than that we need to know about it. He had a problem with a former girlfriend taking advantage so we had to step in. We have a lawsuit about that going to court soon.
We plan on moving him into a retirement home soon, they are building two bedroom cottages, around 900sq ft, that look very nice. He will have a kitchen and washer/dryer, but can get all his meals provided and maid service once or twice a week. The place also owned the assisted living center next door if he needs more care in the future.
hopefully this will give him more of a social life and make things easier on my sister as she lives closer.
Thankfully the kids never came back after they went to college. So except for a little financial help here and there at the start for cars or rent, they have been on their own.
DMC, the cottage for your dad sounds really, really nice. I wish my parents would consider moving to something similar.
DMC, the cottage for your dad sounds really, really nice. I wish my parents would consider moving to something similar.
They are popular, we are waiting for the new units to be built. You have to be able to take somewhat care of yourself. But if you don't show up for a meal at least someone will check up on you. They are a bit pricey, depending on how much help with meals and cleaning you want. But he should have enough.
Here is a link.
http://www.americareusa.net/retirement_community/Cape_Girardeau_MO/zip_63701/americare/1333
ToomuchStuff
7-11-17, 4:31am
Saw someone today that used to be a customer at a friends restaurant I remembered. He has Alzheimer's and really had no business controlling his money and his family let it go on, too long IMHO.
What made them put a stop to it, was his wife got sick and he put her in a home, and when they asked what home, he had no idea.
He had a good day yesterday, and the day before. First in two years and I am guessing that is a sign he won't be around much longer, based on past experiences.
I knew one other person with that diagnosis, who had his license revoked via the doctor. Yet his wife still had him drive her everywhere and lied to the kids (until she got sick).
Some just can't face reality.
That said, this threads title, got me to looking up something I remembered years ago, and found again, and transcribed it....
I have a theory that a man's life is a long list of sandwiches.Like when your a kid, your peanut butter and jam...
Life is sweet, no crusts.
Then you get to be a teenager your a toasted clubhouse.
Got a little bacon going for you, but the girls still stay away...
Because their chicken, or your a turkey.
Then as a young man, you become ham and cheese.
More ham then cheese, but that will reverse as you get older.
Maybe now, you have reached the not so healthy sandwich years.
The big fat greasy corn beef on a Kaiser years.
Things are hanging out all over the place.
Your looking kind of rough and
you biggie sized yourself.
Your fat content is through the roof.
And if you don't start saving some bread up soon, you could end up open faced.
Ok, this is when you need your wifes help.
Your wife is the spoon full of cole slaw, that could save your life.
You be nice to her, bcause if she leaves,
you have had the bun.
And you are WAY too old to be holding the pickle.
Remebmer I am pulling for you, we are all in this together.
From the Red Green show, episode 257.
There was an interesting story on Alzheimer's on 60 Minutes this past Sunday featuring Antioca, Colombia, which has the highest incidence of the early onset version in the world, and research there.
DMC, that place looks really nice. I really wish my parents would consider moving to something like that where they live, or better yet, near one of their kids; the level of "intrusion" there sounds ideal for them. (That is how they perceive help, unfortunately.)
BikingLady
7-14-17, 5:24am
Poor dad having IBS or something and no doctor ever, he had an issue at Kroger Wednesday while there with his aide and never made it to the bathroom. I called yesterday and he was down, very down, probably more that then really still suffering from his stomach issues. I then called after lunch and said I was coming over to spend the night, if only to be company. NO I don't want to see anyone. Then I offered to take him to the doctor today, NO will not go. Just wants to be alone. Ok I know the aide comes today. I know this is the weekly issue he has, but this time and the reason I refuse to go out and about with him as I knew this would happen, I still now worry about his level of being sad over this:(
I really accept now that I can change nothing, he will not go to assisted living, so as my neighbor says about her 95 year old mom, nature takes it's course. Yet yesterday I thought if dad would go to the assisted living home on Lake Huron how he could be griping about life with other like minded men.
freshstart
7-14-17, 9:33am
I feel so bad for your dad and for you
BikingLady
7-14-17, 1:48pm
thanks, it is nice to vent and hear others experiences. All is fine when I spoke today. Two years ago I would have just driven over, today I breathe and think of the 6 hour round trip.
ApatheticNoMore
7-14-17, 2:21pm
I have a theory that a man's life is a long list of sandwiches.
Sans meat, sans cheese, sans taste, sans everything.
sorry too obviously asking for that reference.
We had to sit on our hands/mouths while she thre away this money in her dotage. It was her money.
In doing some cleaning of our parent's house (Dad still alive btw) sister and I discovered how parents (Mom in particular) spent their money. Just a lot of spending on clothes she never wore, crafts/yarn/fabric she never used, every kitchen gadget under the sun and not one but two of them. I now have a brand new ice cream maker that is like 10 years old. We never knew how much they were spending because my folks never would talk in depth about money, it was their business not ours, even when growing up when it would have been helpful to know something about their financial situation when things got tough, it was always treated as some deep secret. When my sister took over handling the finances during my mom's final illness, she was just livid over how they were spending (overreaction perhaps, but that's her). Dad continues to spend on things he doesn't need blowing his budget every month but I told my sis that she can't do much about it because the more she rails, the more Dad "hides" his expenditures which he is hell bent on doing anyway. And it is his money.
Well, hiding spending is not as unusual as hiding two previous marriages. Found out mom was married twice before she married Dad and was married to him for 61 years. My parents never ever talked about money. We got hints as we were much older that things were fine. Neither spent money and I wish they had enjoyed some of what they saved. They even refused to fill out the college financial aid forms so I told them they were then responsible for the whole cost and they provided it. (much cheaper in the 70s though.)
Well, hiding spending is not as unusual as hiding two previous marriages. Found out mom was married twice before she married Dad and was married to him for 61 years. My parents never ever talked about money. We got hints as we were much older that things were fine. Neither spent money and I wish they had enjoyed some of what they saved. They even refused to fill out the college financial aid forms so I told them they were then responsible for the whole cost and they provided it. (much cheaper in the 70s though.)
Sister's MIL found out after her Dad's death that not only was he married before, he had a whole family that everyone was in the dark about, including the mom. Other family discovered their Dad's whereabouts after he died, can't remember if it was obit or genealogy site, but MIL was contacted by her unknown half brother.
As far as college aid forms, my parents were the same way. I would have applied but they didn't want to disclose. They did pay their share as we had an agreement to what percentage they and I would pay, but it was frustrating that they didn't want to look into easing the burden on either of us all because $$ was some deep dark secret. This was late 70s / early 80s.
freshstart
7-16-17, 4:45pm
I cannot get my parents to sit down and talk about the future. Like if one of them dies, can we still afford to live here? Go over the will, insurance policies, wishes when they die, fill out a MOLST, etc, etc, etc. It has been at least 6 mos of me begging to do this stuff. I tell my dad he is being cruel leaving my mom to worry where she will end up when he dies. She is stuck in bed and should not have to worry about that. I told them tomorrow is D Day, we start by going over the will. But it rarely works when I tell them stuff. But if I wait for them, they're probably going to be too sick to tell me where everything is. At least they have a will, that's a start. And my mom has a DNR.
Teacher Terry
7-17-17, 2:59pm
If you can get them to show you where the documents are and what their finances are then you could figure out on your own if you guys could afford to stay there if something happens to one of your parents. Hugs:))
freshstart
7-17-17, 6:01pm
"paperwork" has always been a problem for my parents, my mother is a hoarder and my dad is just very disorganized, plus I need him to sit down with me and walk me through his online accts, passwords etc. It's going to be a project. But one I'd rather take on while he is still lucid than not.
Organization helps, but so does openness.
Siblings and I found out a couple of years ago, during my mother's final illness, how much was unplanned in spite of hearing from them, my Mom particularly, how they had things set up or were working on it. Well, they did set things up to a point such as will, trust and POA's but we were blindsided with no funeral plans, what bank accounts they had, bills, or where other important documents were. My mom handled this stuff, my dad had no idea as things like paperwork, bill and internet passwords were Mom's realm.
Even now I am not sure we have all the information/documents and given my one sister's penchant (she is handling the finances) for not sharing information unless she wants to, I don't have a full picture of what's going on with Dad financially. Being that it's looking like Dad will probably need a care facility soon or at least hired help at home, not knowing what resources Dad has (between disorganization and lack of information sharing) makes it very hard, more than it needs to be.
Poor dad having IBS or something and no doctor ever, he had an issue at Kroger Wednesday while there with his aide and never made it to the bathroom. I called yesterday and he was down, very down, probably more that then really still suffering from his stomach issues. I then called after lunch and said I was coming over to spend the night, if only to be company. NO I don't want to see anyone. Then I offered to take him to the doctor today, NO will not go. Just wants to be alone. Ok I know the aide comes today. I know this is the weekly issue he has, but this time and the reason I refuse to go out and about with him as I knew this would happen, I still now worry about his level of being sad over this:(
I really accept now that I can change nothing, he will not go to assisted living, so as my neighbor says about her 95 year old mom, nature takes it's course. Yet yesterday I thought if dad would go to the assisted living home on Lake Huron how he could be griping about life with other like minded men.
Hugs - I totally get it.
BikingLady
7-25-17, 5:08am
Thanks, This morning I am not feeling as accepting:( I am sitting here at 5 am thinking OH I have to drive over, Oh his car insurance is due and his drivers license, oh he should not be driving, he must surely be lonely today......
freshstart
7-25-17, 1:29pm
not a good feeling, sorry
we met with their insurance guy yesterday and my dad suddenly could remember that if he dies my mom gets half his pension, he had been telling me he thought she would get the same as he gets so I wasn't worrying. Now half is not enough to stay here which would be ok except my mother is a hoarder and I feel this huge weight on me as to how we are going to physically get out of here and financially. we're supposed to sit together and meet finally this week. I'll believe it when I see it. And the insurance money that was earmarked for me, is going to have to cover my mother's living expenses. these two live in denial, total denial, they both are at or near the end of end stage diseases and they plan nothing, not even for the one left behind
not a good feeling, sorry
we met with their insurance guy yesterday and my dad suddenly could remember that if he dies my mom gets half his pension, he had been telling me he thought she would get the same as he gets so I wasn't worrying. Now half is not enough to stay here which would be ok except my mother is a hoarder and I feel this huge weight on me as to how we are going to physically get out of here and financially. we're supposed to sit together and meet finally this week. I'll believe it when I see it. And the insurance money that was earmarked for me, is going to have to cover my mother's living expenses. these two live in denial, total denial, they both are at or near the end of end stage diseases and they plan nothing, not even for the one left behind
I am impressed you got them to meet with the insurance guy! I have given up trying to do that kind of thing as it creates too much stress and they become secretive--planning is not in their lexicon right now. As my cousin said, "Sometimes I think your dad will outlive us all."
I would plan on the insurance money to be used to take care of your mother's living expenses. That way, you are not counting on any of that money.
You also cannot know which of your parents will go first. As I am in that boat, and they do not want to plan, I am waiting to see what happens and we will go from there.
iris lilies
7-25-17, 1:52pm
not a good feeling, sorry
we met with their insurance guy yesterday and my dad suddenly could remember that if he dies my mom gets half his pension, he had been telling me he thought she would get the same as he gets so I wasn't worrying. Now half is not enough to stay here which would be ok except my mother is a hoarder and I feel this huge weight on me as to how we are going to physically get out of here and financially. we're supposed to sit together and meet finally this week. I'll believe it when I see it. And the insurance money that was earmarked for me, is going to have to cover my mother's living expenses. these two live in denial, total denial, they both are at or near the end of end stage diseases and they plan nothing, not even for the one left behind
I hope your meeting takes place and you get facts out of your parents.
Do not bring being up anything about "the hoard" and how it makes you feel. There is no point to that. There is no ability on the part of your parents to be rational about it.
your concern about living on half of your father's pension is realisitc. Hang in there.
iris lilies
7-25-17, 1:55pm
My parents were realistic about money and never secretive. About 3 years before she went into a nursing home, my mother called me to her town and she and I met, along with my brother, to review her finances. We placed our names on her accounts as co owners, at her request.
and while this last thing isnt a good idea for many people and situations, it worked out ok for us.
My parents were realistic about money and never secretive. About 3 years before she went into a nursing home, my mother called me to her town and she and I met, along with my brother, to review her finances. We placed our names on her accounts as co owners, at her request.
and while this last thing isnt a good idea for many people and situations, it worked out ok for us.
You are very lucky. I think this is optimal. I do know that for many children of elderly parents, this is not their reality.
iris lilies
7-25-17, 2:27pm
You are very lucky. I think this is optimal. I do know that for many children of elderly parents, this is not their reality.
I know! But honestly, I know a fair number of people who had and have a similar relationship with their parents and parental assets. As I sit here and run theough friends my age in my head, it seems that all of them had access to their parent's finances As needed, and in some cases were all or partially responsible for those finances.
At the moment we have DH's elderly father in our circle. He has significant assets, they are in a trust, all of the trustees know the terms of the trust, there are no secrets.
My Mom and Dad had almost everything in a trust which protected us when Mom died and Dad got remarried. Turns out the trust became irreversible and could only go to the kids when Mom died. Dad could not override it although he never tried. We only found out when the new wife got an attorney. To her detriment because she paid a lot of money and we would have given her more without the attorney's input. So although they were secretive their whole lives, they did a good job financially.
My husband's mom lets him have access to everything so he can make sure there are no thefts on the accounts and issues can be fixed readily. She is 85 and does not have a good handle on the modern world. Lived in the same small town for 80 years and people, like bankers, were all friends of long standing.
Reading about such a lack of foresight planning for the survivors to cope with makes me really sad. Why do people do this?
DH and I consolidated everything in 2003 to make life easier for the survivor of either partner's passing and ease for our kids. When DH passed away, financial matters were so easily dealt with. Final very simple arrangements prepaid for both of us.
I took our two kids to meet the lawyer and accountant plus they know the CFP at our credit union. I plan on living another 25+ years with peace of mind as a priority.
What a mess leaving undisclosed information for the family to struggle with! Why do people do this?
iris lilies
7-25-17, 4:36pm
Reading about such a lack of foresight planning for the survivors to cope with makes me really sad. Why do people do this?
...
What a mess leaving undisclosed information for the family to struggle with! Why do people do this?
I suppose some reasons are that parents are simply not good with money themselves. Or maybe they are OK with money but they perceive their children to be flaky with money, and they are afraid children will come to them with their hands out.
Someone here talked about how she was not going to reveal to her kids how much money she had. And maybe that was the right decision for her, I think she perceived her grown-up child as being irresponsible with that knowledge.
It's funny how financial information is only interesting, to me anyway, if it is a secret. Once I know it I tend to forget it. About once a year I ask DH "hey how much is your dad worth again? " I honestly forget about it. I would regularly forget about how much my mother's assets were, or what her income was. I could find out if I wanted to but it just slipped my mind.
I should also note that my parents always knew my salary and how much money I had in the bank. When I was a minor, and then as a young adult, I didn't know what their assets were but I had a good idea of their income. During that same period they always knew how much money I was making and how much I had. It was a two way street with us.
I've been taking care of my dads finances for the last year. I'm still finding things out. He owns a old bank building, built back in the early 1900's. He still has some stuff stored down there and I'd like to sell the building. But dad thinks the stuff he has stored is still worth something. It's full of lumber and tools, all of which has been down there for at least 40 years. He also owns some other land and has no issue with selling that. I'd just rather tidy things up.
So I guess he will just keep the old building that he has been to once in the last year, it's 30 miles from where he now lives. I guess it makes him happy so we will just keep it, pay the taxes and maintenance.
Teacher Terry
7-25-17, 6:22pm
When my Mom turned 60 she had my name put on her accounts in case I needed to pay bills because my Dad was too sick to handle it. Then when I moved away she put my sister's name on the account. I have left instructions for both sets of our kids and we have dealt with the final arrangements/expenses so one last thing they won't need to do.
My wife and I have not set down and told our kids everything about our finances. But we both have wills and instruction where everything is invested, with them listed as beneficiary. The surviving spouse pretty much gets everything, with some exceptions made to the grandkids. Then our kids get everything else 50/50.
since we live very well off our investments I'm sure there will be something left, but if not, that's not my problem.
freshstart
7-25-17, 6:29pm
if I knew how much money my parents truly have, I never would've signed on to buying this relatively expensive house with them. I would've suggested an addition to the paid off ranch they had and made modifications to the BR for her illness. But they were so disorganized, I just believed them at the elder law attorney meeting who felt they had enough. Well, sure if my dad is saying my mom will still get his whole pension when he dies. Just by being disorganized and failing to make a few phone calls to verify their situation, my dad has made things very hard if he passes first. My parents both came from nothing and had no guidance what to do with basic finances. They muddled through, hopefully that will work out ok.
When my Mom turned 60 she had my name put on her accounts in case I needed to pay bills because my Dad was too sick to handle it. Then when I moved away she put my sister's name on the account. I have left instructions for both sets of our kids and we have dealt with the final arrangements/expenses so one last thing they won't need to do.
I opened a bank account for my dad and had my sister added to write checks as she is close by. She uses that to pay for anything that he may need. Dad took car of his funeral arrangements years ago, but of coarse I don't know where the paperwork is. He already has his plot and stone. And he has a life insurance policy that is still in effect. It still listed my mom as the beneficiary. She passed away 20 years ago. I was able to change that.
TooSweetForMe
7-26-17, 8:20am
My parents were realistic about money and never secretive. About 3 years before she went into a nursing home, my mother called me to her town and she and I met, along with my brother, to review her finances. We placed our names on her accounts as co owners, at her request.
and while this last thing isnt a good idea for many people and situations, it worked out ok for us.
Are you talking just bank accounts or all accounts (electric, cable, phone, etc)? I am on Mom's bank account because I am the one who writes the checks out and pays all the bills on the computer and other accounts have a copy of her POA naming me as her POA for everything, so I have no problems if I have to call with questions. Her insurance companies and SS/Medicaid also have copies of her POA along with her Drs/hospital.
iris lilies
7-26-17, 8:54am
Are you talking just bank accounts or all accounts (electric, cable, phone, etc)? I am on Mom's bank account because I am the one who writes the checks out and pays all the bills on the computer and other accounts have a copy of her POA naming me as her POA for everything, so I have no problems if I have to call with questions. Her insurance companies and SS/Medicaid also have copies of her POA along with her Drs/hospital.
I dont know if my brother, who lived in my mom's town, had his name on her utility accounts. I guess in this day, one has to have a name on the account to make changes.
freshstart
7-26-17, 6:34pm
I'm always saying negative things in here about my parents, well, this week I won't. I've had a persistent stomach bug that combined with the POT syndrome I have, has made my blood pressure very low because I just can't drink enough and I keep falling. My dad, even in his state, has been helping me when he can. He also went to the grocery store without me asking and got all the stuff you need for a stomach bug- popsicles, etc. My mother keeps calling me and checking in on me. They are both very sweet and despite their limitations, willing to help even when it's hard for them.
My dad started cardiac rehab. He said it's killing him because of his hip pain, but he will not give up. I'm so proud of him. He's been through so much. He's been driving himself which is not good because he can't turn his head, hopefully I'll be back to normal soon and back to driving them everywhere.
TooSweetForMe
7-27-17, 7:58am
I dont know if my brother, who lived in my mom's town, had his name on her utility accounts. I guess in this day, one has to have a name on the account to make changes.
You're right there. Before they had the POA's and my name was on the account, every time Mom would get me to call or something they would want to talk to her before they would tell me anything. But as more places started having account access on-line, it got easier for me to make changes.
The Oak Tree, that is the topic currently with Dad. The 100 plus year old tree in the front yard. Since I was little Dad would say it would fall in a storm and land on his bedroom while he was sleeping and kill him. I know, how weird to tell a kid! Well the tree drops twigs often and he tells me every single call about picking up and filling the yard waste bags. My thought is great gives you something to do! I finally say YOU want it down? My guess is a $2,000. Oh I guess not he says, so we go back to the forever complaining of the lovely old tree.
That' today's vent:|(
ToomuchStuff
8-1-17, 4:40pm
The Oak Tree, that is the topic currently with Dad. The 100 plus year old tree in the front yard. Since I was little Dad would say it would fall in a storm and land on his bedroom while he was sleeping and kill him. I know, how weird to tell a kid! Well the tree drops twigs often and he tells me every single call about picking up and filling the yard waste bags. My thought is great gives you something to do! I finally say YOU want it down? My guess is a $2,000. Oh I guess not he says, so we go back to the forever complaining of the lovely old tree.
That' today's vent:|(
The John Cleese move, would be to offer to have someone come over and cut the tree weaker, so it would fall on his bedroom at night, if that is what he wishes.>8):D
I understand ;) That tree is part of the old oaks in the neighborhood called "Colonial Woods". Honestly my thought is please let that tree out last Dad for so many reasons. The last day I leave my childhood home forever, I want to drive out and look at that tree one last time.
Each day I try to remember the saying I read that parents listened to the child recite the ABC's over and over, now it is the Child's turn to listen over and over!
Today was the day after letting dad think about IF he wanted a his drivers license renewed and he said yes. I took the drive there and then the hour wait at the Sec Of State. Honestly he should not have been given a license. The kind lady had to help him understand the eye test, explaining he was looking for green flashes of light, not once but 4 times! Helping him by telling him there were more letters to read! Showing him where to sign. UGG. When we left with the renewed license, I smiled and said he does not really drive. Kind lady said I know it the need he feels for it.
This left me feeling WATCH OUT if you see an elderly senior on the road! I however had a nice time and knew the days like this would not happen again.
I've done some sort of home care nursing since the 90s, the driving question would drive families apart. Sometimes I would ask the doctor to please have a conversation with the patient about it but they rarely would get involved. One guy was so bad, he rove right through the front of a grocery store. It's such a hard conversation to have. Glad you got through it
This week I've been feeling the sandwich squeeze. Mom is scheduling surgery and my son is getting his heart broken, and there isn't anything I can really do to help either of them other than listen. She is more resilient than he is.
Williamsmith
8-4-17, 8:12am
This week I've been feeling the sandwich squeeze. Mom is scheduling surgery and my son is getting his heart broken, and there isn't anything I can really do to help either of them other than listen. She is more resilient than he is.
Listening is perhaps the best thing one can really do but the hardest.
BikingLady
8-4-17, 12:28pm
Williamsmith, very well said and so true.
Teacher Terry
8-5-17, 8:15pm
If i was your parents I would appoint you the executor, etc. That is terrible that he went behind their backs.
freshstart
8-6-17, 12:12pm
that is truly terrible, it must be very painful if a parent doesn't recognize you but to react that way helps no one and is selfish
Sorry you are dealing with such a difficult situation, Tybee. My Mom is getting quite forgetful and she is undergoing some testing. It is scary stuff, but at least Mom, my sister & I all think alike, have similar values and I am confident my sister and I will work together and support each other every step of the way. Mom has taken care of others all her life, and we want to do well by her now that she needs some help.
On the other hand, my mother-in-law broke her hip about a week ago and that is going to turn into a real nightmare, I fear. She is expecting to come home this week and have DSIL care for her, and DSIL has no interest in doing intensive care-taking. However, she and her husband live with DMIL and make only a token financial contribution, so did she really think there would be no strings attached? And since DMIL has always said daughter would get the house, her 3 brothers are like, "good, then Mom is all yours, little sister." My MIL wasn't really much of a caretaker when my FIL was failing, and was unwilling to make any modifications to the house that could have kept him home longer (which would now make the house much more livable for her current circumstances if she had). My SIL broke both ankles last year, and her husband did all the caregiving; DMIL didn't help to take care of her. So her expectations for the care she should receive from her family aren't in alignment with what she has been willing to provide for them. I love all the people involved in this sorry scenario, so it's just a really sad state of affairs.
Among my social circle the scenario rosarugosa describes is much more common than the one Tybee describes. People try to avoid sending relatives to the nursing home because they don't want the house to be sold to pay the costs. They want to inherit it.
Williamsmith
8-7-17, 6:28am
Among my social circle the scenario rosarugosa describes is much more common than the one Tybee describes. People try to avoid sending relatives to the nursing home because they don't want the house to be sold to pay the costs. They want to inherit it.
Some families begin to break apart over this,point. Some, mine for instance, the children have already been given title to the property many years ahead. When the time comes, the house cannot be considered assets by nursing facility admissions. However, it is agreed that the house will be sold at the appropriate time to pay for services and needs. Maintenance on the home can be a sticking point. Many go into disrepair. Outright theft from parents financial,investments also,occur. It can get very distasteful and ugly.
freshstart
8-18-17, 7:44pm
so I'm really heading into the thick of it. My mother, who is in the end stages of a complicated disease but has lived much longer than anyone thought, is really suffering with inability to breathe and chronic terrible, unmanaged pain. She is now at the point where she is crying at times and saying she is ready to pass. But at the same time she has chosen to have surgery on her arm and hand because they are so painful and the surgeon thinks he can provide some relief. So she is going to require even more help than usual. 2 weeks later, my dad is having a total hip replacement. Then my dog has been having trouble getting up and down the deck stairs and the vet fears he has a torn ACL and needs surgery but he has to be carried up and down those stairs in recovery and he's too big for me to carry. I don't know what the heck I'm going to do about him. I hope my kids settle well into college because I think I will go over the ledge should any problems crop up with them, lol. Just a vent.
OH Freshstart, that is almost more than one can cope with. There must be some help somewhere that you can call upon as an act of mercy.
Maybe a dog walker (or in your case dog lifter) in the short term?
Yeesh, freshstart, that's a lot going on and bearing on your shoulders. I hope you can find help of some kind -- and some time to care for yourself.
I second the dog lifter suggestion, freshstart, there is no way you should be lifting that dog. Our golden retriever tore her ACL at Christmas and it was a slow recover, and for a while my husband was carrying her up and down stairs, not fun and not safe, as he needs a hip replacement.
So sorry you are in the thick of it.
freshstart
8-19-17, 7:25pm
thanks guys, I didn't even think of something so simple as a dog walker, I'm too in it to see my way through it
Coming back to report that Mom passed away on the 22nd.
She cancelled the home health group that I had brought in (quelle surprise), but did ask a friend of hers from church who is an LPN to come in a couple of times a week. All well and good. The problem, however, was that Mom's afib caused her to be weak and dizzy and so she would consistently cancel her INR appointments where she was to get her blood tested for her Coumadin. That, plus the fact that she insisted on taking full-strength aspirin, (in my humble opinion) led to a nose bleed on the 21st. She told me it wasn't bad and that her friend would take her to the ER the next morning. I told her to call me back if she changed her mind and wanted me to take her that evening.
I called the next morning to check in, but didn't get an answer. I assumed her friend (Ginny) had taken her to the ER. Ginny called me a while later and said she'd called three times with no return call and asked if I'd meet her at Mom's house. I got there first and found her sitting in her chair. Without going into the gory details, I think she became weak from blood loss (perhaps an aneurysm also?), and went asleep and never woke up.
SO, she got what she wanted - staying in her own home until the end. No assisted living or nursing home for her. Damn stubborn Swede :~) We had the funeral Saturday. She did give us the gift of preplanning and prepaying for the funeral - even wrote her own obituary. We had all kinds of family come in, which was wonderful. Now on to the hard work of getting the house ready to sell, shuffling paperwork, gathering assets, paying bills, etc.
Still can't believe it.
Oh, Beckyliz, I am so sorry for your loss.
iris lilies
8-30-17, 4:20pm
Beckyliz, that must have been awful fir you in finding your mother that way. I hope it is of some comfort that she probably had no pain and probably no panic, if her blood loss was steady.
I'm sorry Becky Liz for your loss. It's so hard.
Teacher Terry
8-30-17, 5:24pm
I am so sorry. But I can think of a lot worse ways to die then going in your sleep. My Mom was stubborn like that too. My Dad used to call her a stubborn old German:))
freshstart
8-30-17, 8:38pm
oh, Beckyliz, I'm so sorry to hear this. But glad that it sounds like it was peaceful It was good of her to give you the gift of pre-planning.
Sitting in her own chair at home and falling asleep --- so much better than on a ventilator in a hospital. She had a good death, compared to so many. I'm glad you continued to give her autonomy until the end. May you find peace throughout this process of grieving and settling her estate.
TooSweetForMe
8-31-17, 8:09am
Beckyliz, so sorry to hear of your loss. She was at peace when she went, though, it sounds like. My mom says she wants to go like that, also, in her sleep. You and your family are in our thoughts and prayers.
I'm sorry this happened, beckyliz. As Tammy said, though, it's good that your mom met death on pretty much her own terms. It's also good that your mother cared enough about her progeny to handle her funeral details as well. But it still stinks to lose a parent. I wish you and your family peace...
My condolences to you and yours, beckyliz though I am sorry to hear that you had to find her. She did get what she wanted in the end, staying in her own home and it sounds like she did not suffer. Glad she made the preplanning, that makes things so much easier. I get the stubborn Swede thing, though, that is what my mom called my grandfather though she had a bit of that stubborn streak herself.
Wishing your family peace as you move forward.
Even as our parents become elderly, it's still a mental shock to have them pass away. It sounds like you will have help with the details going forward, so I hope it all goes well for you. Take care.
Oh, my, thank you all for your kind words. I agree, I'm pretty sure there was no pain. As shocking as it was for me to find her, I'm just glad it wasn't one of her grandkids. I have thought about what would've have happened if she had gone to the ER - probably a long, drawn out downward spiral. So this is what she would've wanted.
thanks again - I appreciate you.
Teacher Terry
8-31-17, 4:00pm
When I was in grad school we learned that it is always harder to lose the 2nd parent even if you were closer to the first. That is because you are no longer someone's child and that is painful even as an adult. Becky, you are right that going to the hospital would have probably lead to an agonizing death. She had a good death and yes it was good that the grandkids did not find her. Hugs:))
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