View Full Version : Illinois Headed for Junk Status
It's looking very likely that S&P will be downgrading Illinois' credit to "Junk" status in the very near future. Not due to any sort of economic crisis, but simply prolonged, egregious financial mismanagement. Chicago is in similar shape. From what I hear from colleagues and in the press, there is simply a refusal on the part of politicians, the public, unions, etc. to face the reality of the situation.
A lot of people will suffer for this. I'm surprised we haven't been hearing more about it. I assume at some point they'll be looking for some sort of federal bailout.
Ultralight
6-29-17, 5:20pm
I assume at some point they'll be looking for some sort of federal bailout.
Then all will be well!
ToomuchStuff
6-29-17, 5:22pm
They will just hire Micheal Milken to push them.
Illinois sucks. When I last visited the state police racially profiled and harassed my passenger and me. My complaints to the tourism bureau and later a university researching tourism for the state were ignored. Then I saw police brutality including the murder of Laquan McDonald, and police not weeding out the bad apples in the force but instead loafing at work. Then they got on a United Airlines flight and beat up a passenger who was a doctor and wanted to get home to care for his patients. I hope the state goes so broke they all lose their pensions.
Bummer. I love Chicago. I didn't know anything about the straits they're in. And the state is run by a Republican. Go figure.
Chicago is a cesspool, as well as Cook County and the entire danged state. Michael Madigan has more power than the danged governor and is holding everything hostage. He's been in office way, way too long. Waiting to see how much income taxes will go up.
Bummer. I love Chicago. I didn't know anything about the straits they're in. And the state is run by a Republican. Go figure.
Do you know anything about IL politics? The speaker of the state house, Michael Madigan, has been a state rep since 1971. He's been speaker, except for 2 years, since 1983. He runs the state, essentially. His daughter happens to be the IL attorney general, too. If a Dem votes a way Madigan doesn't like, Madigan will make sure that person is soon out of office. Everyone, even the downstate Dems, who tend to be moderately conservative, take their marching orders from Madigan.
We've been without a budget for nearly 3 years now, because Madigan doesn't like anything Rauner, the GOP governor, is proposing.
Do you know anything about IL politics?
No, I really don't know anything about IL politics. It's amazing how a whole state can be under the control of one man. In NJ, we have George Norcross. I don't think Norcross runs the state, but he's pretty powerful.
Liberal though I am I'm an independent because of machine Democrats. We have them in Massachusetts too, where there is no accountability and state jobs including state trooper positions go to relatives of political hacks and lobbyists. Some people criticized Bernie Sanders for not being a Democrat. I thought it was a plus. And let's not forget the Illinois police arrested him. I am paying more in airfare for an upcoming trip to avoid a connecting flight in Illinois. Cesspool is right.
Public sector pensions are a huge liability for IL. They cannot be altered at all. This was written into the 1970 state constitution. The GA (General Assembly) has tried to pass various pieces of legislation to address the issue, by changing things for newer hires, etc., but every one has been declared unconstitutional the IL Supreme Court.
I recently drove to Michigan from WA, and back.
On the way to, I went through Illinois. Never again. Horrible traffic, horrible roads, delays, and I had to travel lightly through areas that are known to arrest and detain gun-owners, even if they are doing everything by-the-book. Nothing like being stuck in Chicago bypass traffic for 4 hours in a 700hp+ car to make you decide that you need an airplane...
On the way back, I took the SS Badger from Luddington to Muskegon, and skipped Illinois entirely, and had a far less stressful and much happier drive.
https://www.ssbadger.com/
Bae, are you aware that folks with carry permits from their state of residence are allowed to car carry in IL? It's written right into our carry law.
Where are you getting the info about gun-owners being detained? I'm active on an IL gun forum and I never hear anything of the sort. IL is not like NY/NJ/MD in that way.
Bae, are you aware that folks with carry permits from their state of residence are allowed to car carry in IL? It's written right into our carry law.
I understand that. However, I was going through Chicago, and a bit nervous after decades of oppression.
Nothing like being stuck in Chicago bypass traffic for 4 hours in a 700hp+ car to make you decide that you need an airplane...
Did I guess the color correctly?
http://techaeris.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Tesla-Model-S-P100D.jpg
Did I guess the color correctly?
Not....quite..... The model is a bit off too :-)
http://i.imgur.com/mk1OvAd.jpg
Yes, the traffic is atrocious even in the middle of the day. I was pulled over for "following too closely" although I was not any closer than anyone else in the bumper to bumper traffic. It is easier to harass tourists from out of state than to fight the gangs on the South Side. Thanks for the link on the ferry Bae. If I ever visit Wisconsin again I will take it.
I am in no way sticking up for Chicago, but the Illinois State Police have jurisdiction over highways. The Chicago Police Dept has jurisdiction OFF the highways in Chicago with some help from the Cook County Sherifff's Dept. Shootings on Chicago highways are a regular occurrence, but the ISP has jurisdiction for those.
One of my tourist stops when I was in Chicago a few years ago was Lincoln Park to relive a memorable song of my younger days.
The streetlamps are on in Chicago tonight
And lovers are gazing at stars
The stores are all closing
And Daley is dosing and the fatman's counting the cars
And there's more cars than places to put 'em, he said
But I've got room for them all
So round 'em up boys
'cause I want some more toys
Hit the lot by the grocery store
To me way, hay
Tow them away
The Lincoln Park Pirates are we
From Wilmette to Gary
There's nothing so harried
And we always collect our fee
Point taken Tradd. It was the highway patrol who for "following too closely" locked me in their cruiser, handcuffed my jacketless passenger on a cold day on the side of the road, and began dismantling parts of the car looking for drugs. Of course there were none, but we got no apology. I asked why since I as the driver was ultimately responsible for the contents of the car they weren't cuffing me and putting him in the (warm) car and they would not answer.
I am in no way sticking up for Chicago, but the Illinois State Police have jurisdiction over highways. The Chicago Police Dept has jurisdiction OFF the highways in Chicago with some help from the Cook County Sherifff's Dept. Shootings on Chicago highways are a regular occurrence, but the ISP has jurisdiction for those.
Do they have exclusive jurisdiction? Around here, it is common for agencies to still write tickets, even though they don't have primary jurisdiction. There's a particularly entertaining 500 yards where the freeway runs through a small peninsula of the border of a very small tribal land, and the tribal police make bank writing tickets there.
Point taken Tradd. It was the highway patrol who for "following too closely" locked me in their cruiser, handcuffed my jacketless passenger on a cold day on the side of the road, and began dismantling parts of the car looking for drugs.
And alongside the road, in a foreign state, is probably not the time to be discussing search & seizure law with the nice officers :-(
Bae I didn't realize the extent to which my civil liberties were violated until afterwards when I read "The New Jim Crow". It made me proud I had voted for Rand Paul. Absolutely no reasonable suspicion as our IDs/criminal records were clean when they ran them through their system. I was in the car when they did it and saw but they didn't care.
Bae I didn't realize the extent to which my civil liberties were violated until afterwards when I read "The New Jim Crow". It made me proud I had voted for Rand Paul. Absolutely no reasonable suspicion as our IDs/criminal records were clean when they ran them through their system. I was in the car when they did it and saw but they didn't care.
This is why I usually travel with a lawyer :-)
This is why I usually travel with a lawyer :-)
Aren't you married to one? :laff:
Many states are in trouble. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/state-budgets-the-day-of-reckoning/
Meredith Whitney and others are warning this is the next big financial crisis. Whitney warned of the 2008 collapse and is now predicting this.
I'm concerned for friends who rely on county and state pensions.
Williamsmith
7-1-17, 9:05am
Bae I didn't realize the extent to which my civil liberties were violated until afterwards when I read "The New Jim Crow". It made me proud I had voted for Rand Paul. Absolutely no reasonable suspicion as our IDs/criminal records were clean when they ran them through their system. I was in the car when they did it and saw but they didn't care.
We used to call this a "whiteline" search. But typically, a minor traffic violation is the probable cause for the stop. A written warning would be issued once ID , registration and insurance information was confirmed. If there was some type of drug paraphernalia or an odor of marijuana then a search could be conducted based on the plain view doctrine. All occupants of the car would then be removed, patted down for weapons and ordered to remain away from the car. Handcuffs would be unusual unless someone was being belligerent or refusing cooperation. Once stopped, your safety is their responsibility.
As a general rule- we didn't handcuff unless the person was under arrest and a criminal complaint followed by arraignment was in the works. However, a search of this kind has the potential to be extremely dangerous and creates a hazardous situation overall.
If no probable cause to search developed, after the warning was issued or citation....permission to search the car would be asked of the driver or owner if present. Often this would be done in written form if possible when consent was obtained. This is where many a court case was won or lost. Just what that conversation was specifically was often a debate. Written consent eliminates much of the mystery but still often people would claim police coercion.
You were a victim of the "War on Drugs" . I too voted for Rand Paul and was very disappointed in his latest Presidential run. His father attended a school I am very familiar with and his family owned a dairy farm in my childhood neck of the woods.
I have more to say about "police profiling" but my time is short today. Pennsylvania was placed under the microscope for this and the findings probably would surprise you. Also, we are experiencing somewhat of a financial crisis brought in partly by public pension fund raiding by the legislature. You should be very concerned because if that domino falls, your money will be worthless also.
Public pension fund raiding was done by the state of New Jersey too. It's likely the case in other states.
IMO the union leaders were asleep at the wheel - the first year this happened they should have gone on strike until that money was replaced. It wasn't meant to be a piggybank for legislators pet projects.
The Illinois pension mess has gotten much coverage since at least 2012. Here's a helpful piece from 2013:
http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2015/08/11/illinois-decades-long-pension-debacle
We are kind of glad we left Chicago, although we did not have pensions. Some of my husband's brothers and sisters do.
Thank you for your perspective Williamsmith. I gave consent for the search because I knew I had nothing to hide. My passenger said we were lucky they did not plant drugs or beat him up on a pretext. We were coming back from a trip to visit family in Milwaukee, where we met several people who had moved there because Chicago got so bad.
It isn't just Illinois that is in trouble. New Jersey, Maine, and Oklahoma are in dire straits too. (It's probably just a coincidence that they all have tax-cutting Republican governors.:~))
In related news, NJ government shut down today. Hits home: my son is an attorney for the State Department of Clean Energy.
Hasn't NJ been in trouble for a long time, and had outrageous property tax bills for decades now as a result of the pension crisis?
Hasn't NJ been in trouble for a long time, and had outrageous property tax bills for decades now as a result of the pension crisis?
We have the highest property taxes in the country. I feel lucky that my taxes are still below 10k. I think there's a lot of reasons for the current mess--the pension crisis is certainly one of them.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 1:44pm
I don't have much experience with Illinois.....I changed planes at O'Hare twice in 1987 when my family in Austria feared for my living in the United States and wanted me to visit to make sure I was OK (and they paid for the airfare)......But I have heard over the years that Illinois was crooked and of course I remember that the former governor was prosecuted and I believe is now in prison (? - I'm sure Tradd would know as she lives in Illinois)- something having to do with corruption of some kind me thinks? I've also heard about the pension crisis in Illinois and of the high murder rate in Chicago. Combine all this with the distance from the Mexican border for inexpensive access to medical and dental care and Illinois has no charm for me whatsoever other than it does have what I consider real winters.
But here's an interesting pro-Illinois take many of you may not know! For Austrians that keep their Austrian citizenship and work in the US on a green card Chicago is the preferred place to be - so much so that Austrian Airlines actually has a direct flight from Chicago to Vienna that is often completely sold out with a good chunk of the passengers being Austrian nationals. Source: My family in Vienna. I even asked them point blank why on earth would Chicago be where Austrians would want to cluster???? (Vienna has for a few years now enjoyed a reputation as the best city in the world to live in....google this if you are not familiar with this and/or find this hard to believe). I could see clustering say in Minneapolis (not quite as dangerous as Chicago but still with issues, far from it's days of Mary Tyler Moore throwing up her hat to say the least) or maybe Seattle or Portland or even Austin (though many Austrians that are familiar with Texas don't like it much, mostly due to both politics and climate)....They told me that Chicago is New York but on a more manageable scale. Gotta say on this one I don't agree with them.......Rob
I don't have much experience with Illinois.....I changed planes at O'Hare twice in 1987 when my family in Austria feared for my living in the United States... What made them fear for your life here en Los Estados Unidos?
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 2:05pm
What made them fear for your life here en Los Estados Unidos?Wow, where do I start? My Aunt and Uncle in Vienna would have a field day answering this question LOL, I can just hear them now going off in their Viennese dialect of German. I'll list a few of the biggies and leave it at that as some of what they would answer to this would offend some of the folks here and that's not my intention. Some of the easier to grasp issues would be the lack of socialized medicine, the easy access to guns, the militarization of the police, police brutality, the dumbing down of education, the fact that college is not paid for by taxes (in other words, that tuition is actually charged and that most graduate with debt, even back in 1987, though nothing like today), human life not being worth six weeks or more of paid time off a year/an inhumane obsession with productivity at the expense of spiritual/emotional/community/relationship health, weakening of unions for everyday people to the point where unions really don't do much/mean much for everyday people....should I go on? My Uncle could name over 300 deficiencies with US citizenship even back in 1987, and this is without ever having set foot in the US (which he has since then and he was not very impressed, though he did admit he was glad to see there was not as much hunger as he'd believed).
One tidbit I'll close with is as Americans (for those here who live in the US, not all here do) don't ever think that foreign nationals are not keenly aware of the deficiencies of US Citizenship, especially foreign nationals in prosperous high end countries such as Austria with a high degree of socialism as part of the mix. This is common knowledge overseas, very much so. Even I was amazed at the level of knowledge average everyday Europeans possess as to the risks/non-necessary deficiencies of US citizenship. I'm of the opinion there would be quite a few regular posters here very offended by how frankly and realistically an average Austrian would assess this citizenship to your face in all but the most formal and/or fleeting social encounters. Rob
Wow, where do I start? My Aunt and Uncle in Vienna would have a field day answering this question LOL, I can just hear them now going off in their Viennese dialect of German. I'll list a few of the biggies and leave it at that as some of what they would answer to this would offend some of the folks here and that's not my intention. Some of the easier to grasp issues would be the lack of socialized medicine, the easy access to guns, the militarization of the police, police brutality, the dumbing down of education, the fact that college is not paid for by taxes (in other words, that tuition is actually charged and that most graduate with debt, even back in 1987, though nothing like today), human life not being worth six weeks or more of paid time off a year/an inhumane obsession with productivity at the expense of spiritual/emotional/community/relationship health, weakening of unions for everyday people to the point where unions really don't do much/mean much for everyday people....should I go on? My Uncle could name over 300 deficiencies with US citizenship even back in 1987, and this is without ever having set foot in the US (which he has since then and he was not very impressed, though he did admit he was glad to see there was not as much hunger as he'd believed).
One tidbit I'll close with is as Americans (for those here who live in the US, not all here do) don't ever think that foreign nationals are not keenly aware of the deficiencies of US Citizenship, especially foreign nationals in prosperous high end countries such as Austria with a high degree of socialism as part of the mix. This is common knowledge overseas, very much so. Even I was amazed at the level of knowledge average everyday Europeans possess as to the risks/non-necessary deficiencies of US citizenship. I'm of the opinion there would be quite a few regular posters here very offended by how frankly and realistically an average Austrian would assess this citizenship to your face in all but the most formal and/or fleeting social encounters. Rob
Rob...
I agree the US needs universal, single-payer healthcare. I agree this nation has a major cultural problem with guns. I think we need stronger unions -- I worked for one in the organizing department for 3.5 years in Phoenix.
So I get it. But to say you are living in fear of death at nearly all times in the US is just... not reality.
You might feel you are in danger, but that does not mean you actually are in danger.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 2:28pm
Rob...
I agree the US needs universal, single-payer healthcare. I agree this nation has a major cultural problem with guns. I think we need stronger unions -- I worked for one in the organizing department for 3.5 years in Phoenix.
So I get it. But to say you are living in fear of death at nearly all times in the US is just... not reality.
You might feel you are in danger, but that does not mean you actually are in danger.Sorry, let me clarify something here and now if I may. My family in Austria does not and did not worry about my being at risk of death here per se (other than their fears of police brutality and the militarization of the police) - they were and are more worried as blood relatives of my suffering an unnecessary low quality of life due to holding US citizenship as opposed to the higher quality of life overall on offer in Austria and other countries in Western Europe. My Aunt has for example often said she'd rather I was on the dole in a small room in Madrid (with Spain's 20% plus unemployment rate that has just barely started to trend down the past year, just barely) than be at constant risk of financial tragedy in the United States the way society is set up here. I'm of the opinion that several of the regular posters here are not going to get this - what I am about to post to them will go way over their heads like an Austrian Airlines plane leaving O'Hare for Vienna - but I cherish my Aunt for this (and my Uncle too, and the rest of my extended family in Austria)......to me her quote here is so loving and kind and humane because I GET IT. I know the deficiencies of US Citizenship at this point in my life down to my DNA and I've seen firsthand how much saner everyday life is for everyday people in Austria......it's like driving a new Mercedes compared to driving a 1974 Ford Pinto, at least in terms of productivity expectations and in terms of health care insecurity. Bad news for the US here is that once this common sense and reality sinks down to your DNA, there is no unseeing it. Ever. Not possible.
But, I'd like to be fair in closing and once again state that my family overseas does not worry per se of my imminent (sp?) death here. More like my being homeless through no real fault of my own so that the wealthy can be yet wealthier - that's more what they fear for me due to my living in the United States, and I believe it's only fair to clear that up. Rob
I guess I just don't understand that if your so worried about healthcare, why don't you just purchase health insurance like the vast majority of people do. No one is stopping you from doing that.
Austria hasn't the benefit of being a small, wealthy country. Unfortunately it's to cold there for me. It would be nice to visit though.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 2:37pm
I guess I just don't understand that if your so worried about healthcare, why don't you just purchase health insurance like the vast majority of people do. No one is stopping you from doing that.I take it you didn't catch that health care was just one of the issues that my family in Austria worries about? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 2:41pm
Austria hasn't the benefit of being a small, wealthy country. Unfortunately it's to cold there for me. It would be nice to visit though.It is a beautiful country, it really is. There is one city in Austria - Linz- that was once the industrial powerhouse of Austria but now it's seen better days as manufacturing has moved elsewhere (though it's no Detroit) but the rest of the country is scenic and in my mind definitely worth a visit. Rob
No it's just seems to be one of your biggies. And I'd be worried about my relatives also if they lived in some of the areas of this country. But there is a big difference from some of the crime ridden inner cities and most of the rest of the country.
Id be very concerned if I was counting on a pension from Illinois. Pensioners may be looking at reduced amounts. I don't see the Feds bailing them out.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 3:00pm
Id be very concerned if I was counting on a pension from Illinois. Pensioners may be looking at reduced amounts. I don't see the Feds bailing them out.Wow.....after our many disagreements here you have posted something I agree with 100%! I agree completely with both the probability of reduced pension amounts in Illinois (imagine the blizzard of lawsuits that will produce!) and I also believe that the Feds, especially with Trump and the GOP running the show, will not be bailing them out, either. Matter of fact I am concerned about public employee pensions EVERYWHERE in the US - though I understand that Illinois is ground zero for this issue and serves as the most extreme example. My point is that Illinois is not the only state with pension funding issues, though, as I've said, it is currently in the worst shape with this. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 3:37pm
We have the highest property taxes in the country. I feel lucky that my taxes are still below 10k. I think there's a lot of reasons for the current mess--the pension crisis is certainly one of them.I've heard this too - that property tax bills in New Jersey are responsible for many more moving vans leaving NJ than arriving in NJ, and that the cost of living/assorted taxes and fees in NJ are economically strangling the state. Lots of moving vans leaving NJ I understand are headed for the South or Texas......lower taxes and fees but there is a trade off in lower services provided too, but even I can understand when faced with insane property tax bills the desire for much lower property tax bills like those I face in Arizona.....mine are slightly under $1,000 a year to give some reference. But on a state level you are pretty much on your own and spending per student here in the public schools is among the lowest in the nation on a per capita basis. Like anything else, it's a trade-off. Rob
I've heard this too - that property tax bills in New Jersey are responsible for many more moving vans leaving NJ than arriving in NJ, and that the cost of living/assorted taxes taxes and fees in NJ are economically strangling the state. Lots of moving vans leaving NJ I understand are headed for the South or Texas......lower taxes and fees but there is a trade off in lower services provided too, but even I can understand when faced with insane property tax bills the desire for much lower property tax bills like those I face in Arizona.....mine are slightly under $1,000 a year to give some reference. But on a state level you are pretty much on your own and spending per student here in the public schools is among the lowest in the nation on a per capita basis. Like anything else, it's a trade-off. Rob
Yes, seniors can't afford their own homes once they retire. It's another big reason why DH and I will probably move north to VT within a couple of years, although VT doesn't have a great record with property taxes either. It's got to be better than NJ, though. I met a guy who pays $32,000 in property taxes. And he's not superwealthy--he works for a pharmaceutical company. Just a corporate slob paying almost $3,000 a month just for the privilege of raising his family in NJ.
Id be very concerned if I was counting on a pension from Illinois. Pensioners may be looking at reduced amounts. I don't see the Feds bailing them out.
True. The federal reserve only bails out ginormous banks because capitalism. Or something.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-17, 4:12pm
Yes, seniors can't afford their own homes once they retire. It's another big reason why DH and I will probably move north to VT within a couple of years, although VT doesn't have a great record with property taxes either. It's got to be better than NJ, though. I met a guy who pays $32,000 in property taxes. And he's not superwealthy--he works for a pharmaceutical company. Just a corporate slob paying almost $3,000 a month just for the privilege of raising his family in NJ.Catherine, I hope any of our regular conservative posters here don't go into immediate cardiac arrest over what I am about to post....BUT...under those conditions, $3000 a month in property taxes? I would be packing a moving van too, and I'm someone who believes in taxes and social welfare spending, as you'all must know by now. Thing is, there comes a point where taxation becomes strangulation, EVEN I GET THIS. $3000 a month in property taxes for a non wealthy person crosses that line in my book.....I could totally understand this family packing up for the flatlands around Dallas or maybe suburban Atlanta to get out of this level of taxation. Once again, even I get this.
Let me give you a comparison point if I may. I was at the public library recently reading the Wall Street Journal (which actually has interesting non-business articles) and there was a page recently showing what type of house you could buy for $1 million in a few cities, Phoenix being one of them. $1 million gets you a huge house here, in an extremely upscale area....but here's my point. The property taxes on this $1 million house in a very posh area of town? $4K ANNUALLY.....a huge difference from what you are talking about in NJ. Once again....much lower level of state services in Arizona, this is true, but who can realistically afford $3K A MONTH for property tax unless they are 1%'ers? I can see why so many people leave the Northeast, I really can........There comes a point where this can't be sustained, which is where Illinois seems to be at right now. Rob
Not all the Northeast is like this Rob. I pay $2830 a year in property taxes, possibly a little less. The bill I just got is an estimate, to be trued up in January, and they estimate high as they start collecting.
Not all the Northeast is like this Rob. I pay $2830 a year in property taxes, possibly a little less. The bill I just got is an estimate, to be trued up in January, and they estimate high as they start collecting.
True, it's a NJ thing, (not sure where you live, Yppej), and I don't pay anywhere near 32k. As I said, I'm lucky to pay under 10k, but I don't pay much under 10k.
Property tax isn't necessarily the whole tax story since state income and sales taxes also vary from state to state. Relative property valuations matter, too. I still suspect the coastal states have a higher tax burden. Colorado has relatively low property taxes, plus there is a provision that people over 65 who have lived in their home for at least the last 10 consecutive years get a huge property tax break. The over 65 provision seems to come up on the chopping block routinely but is current for now. I don't know that our schools and general infrastructure are worse or better compared to other places.
I have to wonder what people get in return in states with high taxes. Out of ignorance, I'd tend to suspect mismanagement or graft, but it probably has a more rational explanation.
Rogar one thing we "get", besides graft, is more local control. I am in Massachusetts where instead of county governments we have 351 municipalities. There are a few regional school districts of 2 or 3 towns, but for the most part we do not enjoy economies of scale. Every town AKA fiefdom has its own slew of pensioned positions for big fish in little ponds.
Williamsmith
7-1-17, 6:41pm
Pennsylvania lawmakers are paying attention to the pension crisis. The Governor.....a democrat with a republican house and senate signed into law a pension reform act that moves future state employees and public school teachers into 401(k) plans. This effectively places the risk entirely on employees for under performing markets rather than tax payers.
However, at the time of the pension fund raids....the markets were over performing to the tune of 15% plus. So lawmakers stole the money and used it for personal favors and vote purchasing. The debt that exists now should be placed smack dab on lawmakers from two decades ago. Unfortunately, unless the current debt is paid off, even the pension reform act will have virtually no ability to improve the situation. This years budget is expected to be unbalanced and 2 billion may need to be borrowed to meet spending.
Defaulting on pensions or even reducing annuities would be hazardous to the health of politicians and disastrous to the economy. A bailout is almost assuredly in the "too big to fail" category. Since it was theft which caused it....."tar and feathering" might be once again common in Pennsylvania.
ToomuchStuff
7-1-17, 7:54pm
I'm of the opinion that several of the regular posters here are not going to get this - ...... I GET IT. Rob
No, you don't get what multiple other posters do.
Complain, complain,(to infinity here, because you don't do something about it) but then quit and do something about it.
I talk to a former Austrian regularly. My neighbor, whose siblings are some sort of musical group over there. While your family may feel one way, certainly not everyone see's it that way. What don't we get, we don't get that in a simple living forum, you do everything in your power to NOT change something that you have the power to change, to "live simply, and with less stress", and it stress's us out. (hard to feel empathy for self destructive people)
No, you don't get what multiple other posters do.
Complain, complain,(to infinity here, because you don't do something about it) but then quit and do something about it.
I talk to a former Austrian regularly. My neighbor, whose siblings are some sort of musical group over there. While your family may feel one way, certainly not everyone see's it that way. What don't we get, we don't get that in a simple living forum, you do everything in your power to NOT change something that you have the power to change, to "live simply, and with less stress", and it stress's us out. (hard to feel empathy for self destructive people)
I'd hardly call rob's behavior self destructive. And I'd suggest that someone who gets stressed out by other people's actions needs to remember that old poem about changing the things you can and letting go of the things you can't.
Personally I've always taken rob's complaints to mean that he really really would rather stay in the US but that he admits that certain aspects of life elsewhere are actually better. Maybe I've misunderstood. I'll let him offer up his thoughts.
ToomuchStuff
7-2-17, 2:11am
I'd hardly call rob's behavior self destructive. And I'd suggest that someone who gets stressed out by other people's actions needs to remember that old poem about changing the things you can and letting go of the things you can't.
Personally I've always taken rob's complaints to mean that he really really would rather stay in the US but that he admits that certain aspects of life elsewhere are actually better. Maybe I've misunderstood. I'll let him offer up his thoughts.
You mention stress and then say you don't see self destructive behavior, what do you think stress does to a person. I don't see him saying he wished he lives here, but wants another country entirely.
As for letting go, well there is an ignore function, but that is the ONLY thing he can do as a moderator, avoid being on the ignore list and not use it as well.
Not all the Northeast is like this Rob. I pay $2830 a year in property taxes, possibly a little less. The bill I just got is an estimate, to be trued up in January, and they estimate high as they start collecting.
I live in Boston and pay way less than $2830. My jaw drops when I see what some people pay for property taxes.
Williamsmith
7-2-17, 8:57am
I live in Boston and pay way less than $2830. My jaw drops when I see what some people pay for property taxes.
In Pennsylvania property tax reform is in the forefront of legislative efforts in a bi partisan way. SB 76 changes the way public schools are funded. Currently each year every property owner is taxed based on the appraised value of their existing residence or business. Certain urban areas have such high taxes that people are unable to sell their houses at market value. The population is dispersing to rural areas. Those on pensions and social security are unable to keep up with tax increases.
SB 76 abandons real estate taxing for public schools and adopts an increase and expansion of sales tax and authorizes public schools to tax personal income. Proponents say this is a fairer way to support public schools.
gimmethesimplelife
7-2-17, 5:22pm
No, you don't get what multiple other posters do.
Complain, complain,(to infinity here, because you don't do something about it) but then quit and do something about it.
I talk to a former Austrian regularly. My neighbor, whose siblings are some sort of musical group over there. While your family may feel one way, certainly not everyone see's it that way. What don't we get, we don't get that in a simple living forum, you do everything in your power to NOT change something that you have the power to change, to "live simply, and with less stress", and it stress's us out. (hard to feel empathy for self destructive people)Honestly, if my posts are so upsetting to you, Too Much Stuff, this begs the question: Why have you not used a blocking/ignoring feature to poof - make me and my awful posts go buh bye? I'm really curious as to this, please illuminate me if you would be willing to do so. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-2-17, 6:05pm
Our property taxes are very low especially if your home is old. Our home is valued at 300k yet we only pay 700/year in taxes. No state income tax either. Schools are terrible-right near the very bottom and other services not good or available. I think if states change to 401k's then people will think twice about being a public servant or teacher since you usually get a smaller salary in exchange for a pension. Both my DH and I could have made more $ in the private sector. Our state has raised the minimum retirement age with no penalty and if you were hired at 2010 you won't get health insurance when you retire. We pay a ton of $ for our health insurance with the state. Active employees get a deal but they really stick it to the retirees.
I thought--still do, in fact--my property taxes were outrageous at $5K plus, but that pales next to $10K or more. I joke that we pay more here for views, and the roads, libraries, schools, etc. are well-kept. But still...
ToomuchStuff
7-3-17, 9:49am
Honestly, if my posts are so upsetting to you, Too Much Stuff, this begs the question: Why have you not used a blocking/ignoring feature to poof - make me and my awful posts go buh bye? I'm really curious as to this, please illuminate me if you would be willing to do so. Rob
As for letting go, well there is an ignore function, but that is the ONLY thing he can do as a moderator, avoid being on the ignore list and not use it as well.
Said multiple times. That is the only thing since the forum went into private ownership, that the moderator title provides. (hardwired into the software)
One of my tourist stops when I was in Chicago a few years ago was Lincoln Park to relive a memorable song of my younger days.
The streetlamps are on in Chicago tonight
And lovers are gazing at stars
The stores are all closing
And Daley is dosing and the fatman's counting the cars
And there's more cars than places to put 'em, he said
But I've got room for them all
So round 'em up boys
'cause I want some more toys
Hit the lot by the grocery store
To me way, hay
Tow them away
The Lincoln Park Pirates are we
From Wilmette to Gary
There's nothing so harried
And we always collect our fee
I miss Steve Goodman.
I see Illinois finally has a budget with a major tax increase. They had to override the Governor's veto. From what I'm reading, they're still under threat of credit downgrades from the major agencies.
iris lilies
7-7-17, 10:26am
I thought--still do, in fact--my property taxes were outrageous at $5K plus, but that pales next to $10K or more. I joke that we pay more here for views, and the roads, libraries, schools, etc. are well-kept. But still...
So, what is a fair price for you to pay? If $5 k is too much, what is reasonable? Should the people up the road with a bigger house pay at a higher rate? Not more, because of. Ourse they will pay more, but should their taxation rate be higher?
what about all of those library workers and their pensions, would ypu deny future library workers the same pensions?
Really, who are you to say that your own money is your own?!!!
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