View Full Version : Mostly for Rob: please explain the concept of social classes
You use the phrases "lower social classes" a lot. Now, I certainly understand various /economic/ classes, but I don't understand what you mean by social classes. What distinguishes these classes? And how many lower social classes are there? Are there "markers" of who is where? As a middle (economic) class person, I recognize certain hairstyles or purses as someone trying to display a certain status. I assume there must be something present that those in the know would be able to distinguish one social class from another?
Why do you include yourself in a lower social class? I could see lower economic class, yes, due to your work decisions. But you are well spoken and articulate (if overly dramatic ;). You have had what I would call typical middle class ambitions (going to school to improve your lot in life etc). Why do you brand yourself other than middle class?
This is genuine curiosity, not snarkiness, but I'm sure there will be others who jump on this thread who will be snarky.:laff:
This is such a complicated question, isn't it, about the intersection of economic and social class determinants. I saw your comment here "I recognize certain hairstyles or purses as someone trying to display a certain status" and just had to ask what are those indicators, for you, that someone is trying to display a certain status?
It's a fascinating topic!
ApatheticNoMore
7-21-17, 12:37pm
You use the phrases "lower social classes" a lot. Now, I certainly understand various /economic/ classes, but I don't understand what you mean by social classes. What distinguishes these classes? And how many lower social classes are there? Are there "markers" of who is where?
well there are the homeless living on the streets, and then there are the homeless who live in their cars and RVs, and then there are poor people that at least have permanent shelter but maybe have food insecurity or little access to healthcare. Ok I suppose I'm being snarky, but it's kind of the reality of poverty if not an academics definition.
Why do you include yourself in a lower social class? I could see lower economic class, yes, due to your work decisions.
But you are well spoken and articulate (if overly dramatic . You have had what I would call typical middle class ambitions
(going to school to improve your lot in life etc). Why do you brand yourself other than middle class?
honestly I sometimes wonder that too, probably just over healthcare in his case (but if healthcare is what one needs it is a problem). But that is an economic issue. There are also VASTLY different experiences of WORK depending on class to the degree that I'd define it as maybe the primary characteristic of class. But to what extent that affects Rob he will have to answer. I mean if he still thinks his job is better than a corporate job I don't think it can be that bad as many working class jobs are worse than white collar work any day (but it is true some have a personality that they just can't tolerate a white collar job). There is just no comparison except for outliers (especially bad corporate jobs for instance).
I have very indirect experience of this with my bf. So he's management, but in a blue collar environment. No vacation time, no sick days (goes in sick regularly), everyone is working 10-12 hour days, 6 days a week. Bad words, anger, crudeness allowed to the extent they wouldn't be in a white collar environment (this part has plusses and minuses as in some ways it's more honest, but there is open racism at times that I can't believe happens in a *work* environment). Almost noone can afford to live near work (and it's not that fancy an area) and so they are commuting not an hour but an hour and a half, two hours EACH way. Verbal abuse is a constant at work. People are routinely cheated out of commissions they have earned, promised raises they don't get etc. I don't think I understand the full horror of it, because I think it's one of those things my bf thinks I would never fully understand. But he's moving on now, he's from a middle class background like me (but with more education than I have for darn sure), so we are meant for better :). Sorry I think it's beyond f-ed up the way things are ...but we have to and will get better for ourselves.
I saw your comment here "I recognize certain hairstyles or purses as someone trying to display a certain status" and just had to ask what are those indicators, for you, that someone is trying to display a certain status?
Well to give a stereotyped example: there is a certain haircut that is popular among well to do soccer moms who have some entitlement going on- its become a meme. There are certain markers that identify someone as part of a group- ie bikers have been historically known for leather jackets and tattoos. There are certain consumer products that are "in" at a given moment with a particular crowd, and one of the ways you can show you "belong" is to prominently display that consumer product. We often identify with certain groups by the way we dress, what or if we drive, the types of leisure activities we participate in and the like.
Well to give a stereotyped example: there is a certain haircut that is popular among well to do soccer moms who have some entitlement going on- its become a meme.
I have not been a soccer mom for 25 years, so this is news to me--what does this haircut look like, and how does it indicate that these women "have some entitlement going on"? How is it a meme?
iris lilies
7-21-17, 1:24pm
I have not been a soccer mom for 25 years, so this is news to me--what does this haircut look like, and how does it indicate that these women "have some entitlement going on"? How is it a meme?
I think I know it, it has angles.
It signifies that one goes to a salon because it is not something you can do yourself.
every time I think I might chop off my hair, I remember that i then have to go to a salon occasionally to have it cut. ugh, no thanks, I will continue to pile it into a clip in a messy granny 'do.
I remember from Sociology 101 that there are numerous definers--how education intersects with net worth, social mores, and so on. I don't know if Paul Fussell's Class is still relevant, but it was a fun read.
Was that entitled soccer mom haircut a bob? Worn with mom jeans and loafers? I think I've seen a few around here.
Iris Lily and I have the exact same do. And for the same reason. :~)
This is the haircut I am thinking of, it has wisps not angles. The angles haircut I referenced upthread was popular as I remember it 15 years ago.
Edited to say: i am not making funof this haircut, I think it is cute. The currently poplar one I think is NOT cute is the one that has purposely bad waves.
1817
This is the haircut I am thinking of, it has wisps not angles. the anled haircut is the one from 15 years ago.
1817
Ah yes--what I characterize as the "chewed off by weasels bedhead look."
This is the one I dont like, reminds me of 80's frizzy big hair:
1818
Ah yes--what I characterize as the "chewed off by weasels bedhead look."
Hahahah.
I have seen women of all ages wearing the first one you posted, Iris, and no one of any age wearing the second one.
I don't see where entitlement comes in--isn't entitlement in the eye of the beholder?
Are you seriously saying that entitlement equals being able to afford to go get a haircut?
I don't understand where this mocking of "soccer moms" comes from; it seems to be a socially acceptable scapegoat these days. I think it's another expression of anti-women sentiment. Remember in the 50's, where everything was Mom's fault? The "smother mother." Well guess what, it still is.
But, as I said, I haven't had a child in soccer for 25 years.
ApatheticNoMore
7-21-17, 2:04pm
This is the one I dont like, reminds me of 80's frizzy big hair:
people's hair can fall into ringlets naturally. don't blame people for how they were born :~) (although there also seems a bit of a cut involved there, she probably curls it as hair is a bit fine to be the curly variety). I've seen people wearing the first one (good luck doing it with curls though unless you straighten it first) and not exactly the second but ringlets yea sometimes have to look no further than the mirror.
Are you seriously saying that entitlement equals being able to afford to go get a haircut?
No. I mean that its a meme going around with people who work retail that this type of person always demands to talk to the manager in a not very nice way. The haircut itself means nothing, its that a lot of women who have that haircut aren't very nice to service people. See link below.
https://yourfriendshouse.com/opinion/the-can-i-speak-to-the-manager-haircut-is-a-very-real-phenomenon/
iris lilies
7-21-17, 3:16pm
I have seen women of all ages wearing the first one you posted, Iris, and no one of any age wearing the second one.
I don't see where entitlement comes in--isn't entitlement in the eye of the beholder?
Are you seriously saying that entitlement equals being able to afford to go get a haircut?
I don't understand where this mocking of "soccer moms" comes from; it seems to be a socially acceptable scapegoat these days. I think it's another expression of anti-women sentiment. Remember in the 50's, where everything was Mom's fault? The "smother mother." Well guess what, it still is.
But, as I said, I haven't had a child in soccer for 25 years.
I distinctly remember two women a bit older than me engaging in a pissing match about their then-trendy angled hair cuts. "You can't get THIS done in the city!" said one. " oh I know, I go to John Paul Le Blah Bleh Blah in Clayton*" said the other angle haired matron.
Yeah these things are class markers. Fortunately I didn't want an angled haircut then and I don't want a trendy one now. I do think some kind of classic short haircut for me would be good but I am Too lazy to maintain one.
* Clayton= toney suburb of St. louis
iris lilies
7-21-17, 3:22pm
I have seen women of all ages wearing the first one you posted, Iris, and no one of any age wearing the second one...
Here is a more common version of it with more relaxed waves. This is all over Hollywood.I think it is awful.
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1819&stc=1
No. I mean that its a meme going around with people who work retail that this type of person always demands to talk to the manager in a not very nice way. The haircut itself means nothing, its that a lot of women who have that haircut aren't very nice to service people. See link below.
https://yourfriendshouse.com/opinion/the-can-i-speak-to-the-manager-haircut-is-a-very-real-phenomenon/
Kate Gosselin emulators, no doubt.
I think I know it, it has angles.
It signifies that one goes to a salon because it is not something you can do yourself.
every time I think I might chop off my hair, I remember that i then have to go to a salon occasionally to have it cut. ugh, no thanks, I will continue to pile it into a clip in a messy granny 'do.
I love granny do's! Don't cut your hair! I'm feeling such a freedom with my new salt-and-pepper barely-manageable wavey/frizzy do. (My hair has the same look and temperament as Blythe Danner's but I can never get it to look that good!)
http://images.chinatopix.com/data/thumbs/full/43837/600/0/0/0/blythe-danner.jpeg
Re the sociology of haircuts.. I love this discussion. I think hair is such a status symbol.
Re the sociology of haircuts.. I love this discussion. I think hair is such a status symbol.
It's a fascinating sub-bunny-trail!
Here in the Pacific NW (and perhaps on a wider scale), certain haircuts are used to convey gender identity, orientation, and other odds-and-ends, and then inevitably get coopted by the "mainstream" and confusion and alarum results.
Me, I'm just glad I have hair left.
Someone grilled me on my "interesting" beard style the other day. I had to let them down and tell them that it was simply the largest beard/moustache that would fit inside a Scott SCBA facepiece, and that I used a template every morning to keep it in-spec.
Hair can convey things. To try to express individuality with the stifling dress code at work one of the IT guys has put bright blue streaks in his hair.
Someone grilled me on my "interesting" beard style the other day. I had to let them down and tell them that it was simply the largest beard/moustache that would fit inside a Scott SCBA facepiece, and that I used a template every morning to keep it in-spec.
My two VT sons have plenty of facial hair which helps them fit in nicely up there, but when they come home for Christmas and Thanksgiving they feel funny walking together down Nassau Street in Princeton--they look like a couple of redneck twins in a sea of Ivy League prepsters.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 8:31am
This is such a good, thought-provoking question. I am going to take some time before I post an answer to give this topic the respect it deserves....I don't want to give a knee jerk answer but a thought provoking one. I will come back to this question when ready. Rob
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