Down vs. depressed

[Chicken lady]

Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if I am sliding into depression or if my days are just exhausting and depressing.

I am generally light responsive, and it is a sunny breezy day, which would normally have me energized and wanting to work outside.

outside, where the poison ivy has taken over my garden and I can't weed. Where almost every morning this month I have been greeted by one or more dead/missing chickens and/or one or more dead raccoons.

where I need to completely start from scratch and build a Fort Knox chicken coop.

outside where the goats keep escaping from holes I can't find in the fence. Where the blackberries are almost done and I haven't picked any yet this year.

one of my favorite goats died. I had to go to a bridal shower for my future daughter in law (the only thing I like about that is my future dil.) I had to drive into town and shop for her gift because I delayed ordering it too long. My in laws are coming to stay on Friday.

it has been storming every night and waking me over and over. I can't seem to catch up with the kitchen or the laundry. My body feels heavy and thick and tired. I'm gaining weight again.

I signed up for a class which I really wanted to take and enjoy when I'm there, but I'm not getting my work done. I had a piece blow up in the kiln last night which I needed to use tomorrow in class, and am now pretty much guaranteed that I will get little or no finished work out of the class - making it a bad economic choice. I have still learned things.

so all of that is discouraging and tiring. But along with it is the voice in my head which is starting to speak up again.tellling me to give up on the chickens, assuring me I will lose them all, that I will never get my weight back down (though I have over and over), that I am lazy and a terrible housekeeper, that I make my dh life harder by not being a better hostess to my inlaws, that I was foolish to think I had time to take this class that generally I suck and anybody else would handle all this better.

and when I look out at the sun dancing on the leaves, I think "i just can't." And the tears are right there.

and I think that is the depression talking.

[nswef]

It sounds as if you know yourself pretty well, CL so trust that your judgement is correct on this and do whatever it is you have to do for the depression. Counselor? Drugs?

[pinkytoe]

I know that I have spells where depression sets in and leaves just as mysteriously. Not really situational - perhaps hormonal or the phase of the moon? If you are of a certain age, i.e. premenopausal, there are definitely some emotional roller coasters for many women. It does sound though like you have a lot on your plate and perhaps sleep-deprived. When I don't get enough sleep, I feel continually hungry and eat more than usual.

[CathyA]

Are you taking D3?

[ApatheticNoMore]

or perfectionism maybe, ok some stuff has to be done, but beating yourself up over whether the class was worth the money or stressing to much about it doesn't seem one of those things that needs to be done (just a class taken for personal development right? ha with classes this might date way back to wanting to be a good student growing up, and of course one doesn't want to waste the money and get nothing out of it but ...).

I tend to take a deep breath and say, ok what really needs to be done, and what is more optional. Yea that probably doesn't work for everyone.

[Chicken lady]

I take iron, b complex, 3 cups of black coffee and the occaisional wine or mixed drink. Most of my sugar intake is from whole fruits and milk.

[Chicken lady]

That coffee intake represents a major reduction in caffeine. When I feel like this, I really crave black tea or soda and I have to remind myself "that way lies madness..." (Ever increasing caffeine consumption leading to increasing alcohol to fall asleep at night, often mixed with high carb liquids.)

[iris lilies]

Oh CL! i am sorry that you have the inlaws coming on top of everything else.

My immediate reaction is YES! get rid of chickens, you can always start up chicken production again and that is a big worry off your plate, a big obligation. But I doubt that is going to affect the heaviness of your psyche in a significant way. ? Don't know.

the class--it doesnt matter. It just does not matter in the big picture or even in the smaller picture, regardless of what you get or do not get out of it.

Sounds like drugs might be in order.

[Tammy]

Simplify. You have way too much on your to do list.

[Tybee]

Simplify. You have way too much on your to do list.

Agree, and it would be great if you could take a small retreat out of town when the in-laws come, as it really does not sound like their visit is good for you right now.

[Teacher Terry]

Depression and anxiety are common when going through menopause. CL: it sounds like maybe you could benefit from counseling or meds. YOu have set such high standards for what you have to accomplish everyday that no one could do all that. It makes me tired just reading about it:))

[frugal-one]

WOW... I would be down if I had all that hanging over my head!!! Might be time to downsize... animals, etc.

[Teacher Terry]

YOur DH is lucky that you host his terrible parents. I second the recommendation to get away for the weekend if you can. Actually your husband sounds like a great guy but I think it is too stressful for you to have his parents at this time. Hugs:))

[Chicken lady]

It's the needs to be done vs optional that is my struggle - everything that "needs to be done": the housework, the laundry, supplying people with food, arrangements relating to my son's upcoming wedding (the bridal shower, finding an appropriate dress, arranging a brunch we have already invited people to), planning for my fall classes (it's the planning and prepping formal curriculum and handouts for the open house that I dislike), hosting people, eating properly, even remembering to brush my hair before I leave the house, is what is wearing me down,

and the "optional" - my chickens, my class, the goats, the garden... That usually builds me up that is making me sad because it's all going wrong and I don't have enough time and energy left for it and nobody else cares.

i don't want to go anywhere! Going is one more demand. My kid accidentally left home with my credit card today, and I am so grateful, because now I can make her get the groceries! I have a class on Friday afternoon. My in-laws are coming in Friday evening. I have actually lied to everyone about when the class gets out. I'm just planning to stay at the pottery studio really late. Because I just can't face my in-laws and dinner.

i don't really even want to paint the addition any more. I should be doing that today, and I'm just not. And dh will be upset.

[CathyA]

You really need to take D3! It can really help with depression, if you're low with it.
And I agree about simplifying a bit. I know it can be hard, but it might help a lot!

[Teacher Terry]

Great idea to avoid the inlaws on Friday. My DH has a garden and plants that I could care less about. If I had to take care of them they would be dead. I think the things that used to bring you joy are not because you have to much to do. If you could swap the things you like for the ones you dislike that would be great but I know that is not realistic. Only you can decide what needs to go on the chopping block. Or maybe take a break from the farm animals for a year and then the next year decide if you want to do it again. Could you hire someone that needs the $ to finish painting the addition?

[razz]

Your expectations are not aligning with your reality - getting stressed, tired, not sleeping or eating well are the results. Can you reduce your expectations somewhat? Can you order or simplify the food prep rather than make it all - one example?
Forget about the painting for now. Prioritize what needs to be done and do just the top three might be another option. If anyone says anything, hand them the list of priorities for him/her to take over some of them if that is possible.

[Yppej]

You need someone in real life you can talk to about this, counselor or family member, someone who will take seriously the threat of, if not yet actual, depression, run interference for you, help you set boundaries. I would also recommend a retreat vacation, or telling people you are on vacation and not answering your door, phone, etc. My mother went through a nervous breakdown due to working nonstop day and night and being a perfectionist. Caring for yourself is critical, and hopefully you will find others to care for you also.

[iris lilies]

I was thinking of this when you posted a few weeks ago about how gathering your entries for the fair was a chore.

I wanted to tell you then, and will tell you now, that maybe you could consider different ways to follow your passions.

Different ways are: visit the fair, but dont take entries. Just enjoy it as a pure spectator for a year. Or take only 3 entries, your top 3.

Think about quality over quantity in all efforts. Have one chicken and keep her in the back porch ( I know, this is probably is ridiculous because chickens are so messy.) But you get the idea. Cut down in the number of goats you have. Same for the garden, this year anyway because it sounds as though it is finished for this year. Does Roundup work on Poison Ivy? For hour pottry class, relish the things you learn, even if you will not be able immediately to put them to use. Will you ever be able to put them to specific use? Maybe, maybe not, but your mind was expanded in class and that is a tangible thing if not a thing you can hold in your hand.


This is "simplifying" but in a way that allows you to continue to have and experience the things that give you joy.

I remember the days when I used to run around like a maniac, cutting and grooming iris for shows. It took me several years to give up the bad practice of bringing a stem of every cultivar that was open. i entered 50 +stems some years. madness! Many were not first rate and what is the point of dragging in a specimen that isnt blue ribbon quality to show it?So now I am judicious in my garden when identifying stems to go to a show. i STILLmiss faults and end up with 2nd and 3rd place ribbons, but that is ok, I feel mich more at peace in the time leading up,to a show and I am more proud of my entries. And I very seldom earn a 4th place, those low quality entires dont waste my time any more.

[Ultralight]

I was thinking of this when you posted a few weeks ago about how gathering your entries for the fair was a chore.

I wanted to tell you then, and will tell you now, that maybe you could consider different ways to follow your passions.

Different ways are: visit the fair, but dont take entries. Just enjoy it as a pure spectator for a year. Or take only 3 entries, your top 3.

Think about quality over quantity in all efforts. Have one chicken and keep her in the back porch ( I know, this is probably is ridiculous because chickens are so messy.) But you get the idea. Cut down in the number of goats you have. Same for the garden, this year anyway because it sounds as though it is finished for this year. Does Roundup work on Poison Ivy? For hour pottry class, relish the things you learn, even if you will not be able immediately to put them to use. Will you ever be able to put them to specific use? Maybe, maybe not, but your mind was expanded in class and that is a tangible thing if not a thing you can hold in your hand.


This is "simplifying" but in a way that allows you to continue to have and experience the things that give you joy.

I remember the days when I used to run around like a maniac, cutting and grooming iris for shows. It took me several years to give up the bad practice of bringing a stem of every cultivar that was open. i entered 50 +stems some years. madness! Many were not first rate and what is the point of dragging in a specimen that isnt blue ribbon quality to show it?So now I am judicious in my garden when identifying stems to go to a show. i STILLmiss faults and end up with 2nd and 3rd place ribbons, but that is ok, I feel mich more at peace in the time leading up,to a show and I am more proud of my entries. And I very seldom earn a 4th place, those low quality entires dont waste my time any more.

+1

There is a lot of wisdom in iris's words here.

[Chicken lady]

I am feeling a little better today.

entries for the fair took an hour to decide and fill out the forms, 4 hours of finishing up projects, 3 hours to gather, label, and load, 2 hours to drop off (including drive time and I was going to the fair anyway 1.25 round trip), 2 hours to pick up (not going anyway) - 12 hours

so, next year I don't enter anything that is not already finished when the form goes in in June. - 8 hours

and I start gathering right away (spreading the gather, label, and load time out over three weeks)

since the 4 hours of drop off and pick up can only be reduced by about 15 minutes by entering one item, it seems silly not to enter as much as I want. It is more fun that way and I make a little money ($73 net this year, so about $6/hr).

yesterday I delegated the shopping, put the baked goods on the shopping list, and had dh pick up dinner. Nobody died. There is more trash and less nutrition, and the budget doesn't have much slack for that sort of thing, but nobody died. The world is still turning on it's axis.

hiring out the painting - anything I don't do on this project increases the time and/or cost. I agreed to paint. It was part of the planning. We have an initial construction loan - which is spent and 10% paid off. We have a line of credit which we are trying to use as little as possible. So less picking up dinner etc. means more money to work on the addition without tapping the line of credit and paying more interest.

Dh salary allows him to pay the construction loan and the minimum payment on the line of credit should we max it out without giving up all the monthly discretionary budget, but it would be very tight - (Netflix, monthly take out, decent groceries and an extra tank of gas for non essential trips) Whatever part of the discretionary budget is available each month gets set aside to avoid using the line of credit. By keeping my expenses to a minimum I am able to put an extra $500 a month toward principal on one of the loans (line of credit if it is open, construction loan if not) dh can't retire until the construction loan is paid off.

so me painting matters.

It takes just as long to feed one chicken. And one chicken becomes such a pet that your heart breaks when something inevitably eats it. At the beginning, I had 3 chickens. Elanore got trapped under a sandbox lid and died of heat. I cried for days. It was hard to forgive the careless child. I got a larger flock and stopped naming the chickens.

i will put the goats in the garden to clear it and eat the poison ivy in August when I am home more days to supervise.

[Ultralight]

I am feeling a little better today.

entries for the fair took an hour to decide and fill out the forms, 4 hours of finishing up projects, 3 hours to gather, label, and load, 2 hours to drop off (including drive time and I was going to the fair anyway 1.25 round trip), 2 hours to pick up (not going anyway) - 12 hours

so, next year I don't enter anything that is not already finished when the form goes in in June. - 8 hours

and I start gathering right away (spreading the gather, label, and load time out over three weeks)

since the 4 hours of drop off and pick up can only be reduced by about 15 minutes by entering one item, it seems silly not to enter as much as I want. It is more fun that way and I make a little money ($73 net this year, so about $6/hr).

yesterday I delegated the shopping, put the baked goods on the shopping list, and had dh pick up dinner. Nobody died. There is more trash and less nutrition, and the budget doesn't have much slack for that sort of thing, but nobody died. The world is still turning on it's axis.

hiring out the painting - anything I don't do on this project increases the time and/or cost. I agreed to paint. It was part of the planning. We have an initial construction loan - which is spent and 10% paid off. We have a line of credit which we are trying to use as little as possible. So less picking up dinner etc. means more money to work on the addition without tapping the line of credit and paying more interest.

Dh salary allows him to pay the construction loan and the minimum payment on the line of credit should we max it out without giving up all the monthly discretionary budget, but it would be very tight - (Netflix, monthly take out, decent groceries and an extra tank of gas for non essential trips) Whatever part of the discretionary budget is available each month gets set aside to avoid using the line of credit. By keeping my expenses to a minimum I am able to put an extra $500 a month toward principal on one of the loans (line of credit if it is open, construction loan if not) dh can't retire until the construction loan is paid off.

so me painting matters.

It takes just as long to feed one chicken. And one chicken becomes such a pet that your heart breaks when something inevitably eats it. At the beginning, I had 3 chickens. Elanore got trapped under a sandbox lid and died of heat. I cried for days. It was hard to forgive the careless child. I got a larger flock and stopped naming the chickens.

i will put the goats in the garden to clear it and eat the poison ivy in August when I am home more days to supervise.

It is... all... just... so much...

[Chicken lady]

Yes. But still, if one is alive, one is doing something. I choose to spend as little time as possible in stores, at social events or entertainment venues, obtaining food that is not nurturing to my body, cleaning things, engaging in athletic or non productive exercise activities, or doing unrewarding work.

my dh left the house at 6:10 he will commute 50 minutes to a meeting away from his office, then go to his office, work until 5:00 (eating the lunch I packed him) go to his golf league, get dinner out, and be home at 10:00

meanwhile my day includes commitments to farm chores, dishes, laundry, basic housekeeping, and a two hour class an hour from home. That leaves a lot of time for other things.

How often do you take Harlan out? How long does that take? I realize that taking Harlan for a walk brings you joy. Feeding my animals brings me joy (people pay to feed animals at exhibits) even cleaning stalls gives me satisfaction. Hauling water, not so much. But it is exercise and the cost of putting in automatic water is not worth the trade offs.

[CathyA]

I totally understand, chicken lady. When you have animals, you have to treat them well, and that can take a lot of time and effort. (I had chickens that I cared about and it was a lot of work to keep them safe and healthy and fairly clean). I've also had house pets that had illnesses that required treatment, etc.

I'm thinking that maybe you're feeling so overwhelmed because you have some underlying depression.......that's not necessarily caused by all the work you have to do. I, too, feel overwhelmed at times by having to cook a good meal every day, having to take care of the garden, having to preserve the stuff from the garden, taking care of lots of menial tings that Have to be done, etc. People who live in the city don't understand that even though this stuff is hard work and can lead to frustration, it's a choice of how we want to live our lives. And life like this is not easy.

So I totally understand that you don't want to give up much.....since it's ultimately what you want. But I do think that maybe there's an underlying depression (caused by some neurochemical imbalance, perimenopause, etc.).......and you might benefit from something like an SSRI. I know I hate thinking I need a drug to function better........but when you're depressed enough, it's an option.

[catherine]

Yeah, I don't think your problem is depression or vitamin deficiencies or brain chemistry or thyroid. I think you're understandably burnt out. Feeling there's no light at the end of the tunnel from all your chores. You're not getting any pay-off for the work you do. You can't sleep, you are losing chickens, you are grieving your goat. High work load and low reward right now.

You need some serious R&R.

[Tammy]

You give excellent reasons to do all the things. Yes it's logical for each thing on its own. However it is still too much when taken all together.

Something has to give. Don't let it be your mental health. Let it be something else.

"Boundaries: when to say and when to say no to take control of your life." This book changed my life back in the 90s.

https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/1480554979

[Float On]

You said your inlaws are coming to visit? Seems I remember that alone was quite a bit of stress for you and leaked over into every area of your life. Seems like last visit you set up some boundaries for yourself and didn't let MIL's quips seep over into your mental space.
I think I get a bit depressed and anxious every July and August. I look forward to summer so much and then it just dries up and the heat gets to me and I feel horrible for not getting everything done to perfection like I think it should be. I've also noticed I spend more money when it's this hot and humid. I don't want to cook - everything gives me a headache from effort. Basically summer disappoints me and I start looking forward to fall because maybe then I'll feel like doing stuff. I just live in the wrong climate for me.

[Chicken lady]

The pottery studio closes at 9pm.

there are so many chores to catch up on Saturday morning that simply cannot wait. Alternately I am not above telling dh to tell his parents I am throwing up. Or I might start painting at 6 a.m.

this is my line in the sand right now. I will put clean sheets on the bed for them. They can help themselves to towels from the bathroom linen closet. I'll run an extra load of wash after they leave. I am not baking dessert - they can eat store cookies. I am not cleaning the house. This is a gift to myself and to future dil - who will be hosting them the following night. I intend to provide contrast that will let her shine!

the in laws will be gone by lunch time. They are using us for a hotel this "visit"

i am am opposed to SSRIs. I watched someone adjust to them, deal with side effects, and wean off. I don't have that many really bad days. And I have not been a danger to myself since 1989. I know what that path looks like.

[iris lilies]

CL, are your inlaws staying with you durng the period of your son's wedding?

to me, that would be a time to tell them "you cant stay, we have too much going on. Please find a motel."
they were out of the country for your daughter's wedding, if I recall correctly.

[Teacher Terry]

The pattern I am seeing is what I see in many forums. People ask for suggestions/help and then shoot down everyone by having a "good" reason. The thing is that stress hurts your overall health. It is hard on the body. Sometimes people don't slow down until they have a medical event that forces them too. SSRI's have helped many people function better. Yes some people have side effects but many do not. What I have learned as I have gotten older is that you have to pick and choose what it is that you have the time/energy to do. No one can do it all. I lived in a rural area at one point where everything was a long drive etc so I know what the life looks like.

[Geila]

Chicken Lady - I'm sorry that you are struggling. From personal experience, I've found that we can only make the change that we are ready to make. And that usually means when the pain of not changing is greater than the pain of change. Sucks, I know. Sending you virtual support in whatever form resonates with you. And I'm glad that you are feeling better. Sometimes just the act of venting and putting it out there makes a considerable difference.

[mschrisgo2]

CL, sounds like the in-laws using you as a hotel was the final straw, and drawing lines there is helping you get back on track. Good for you! So happy to hear you are going to let the goats handle the poison ivy! They will love their "job"!

(my brother got 2 goats a couple of years back...I had, rather flippantly, commented "that's a good job for goats" after he had done 2 whole weekends of brush clearing and was dealing with a raging case of poison oak. He promptly located and bought them. They are very happy, and he doesn't spend any time clearing brush anymore, or have to deal with notices from the fire department about defensible space.)

I also heard you saying you wanted something tangible to show from your class... maybe make pretty notes of what you've learned, or what you want to do next. Give yourself an accomplishment award, like we do for our students.

I read online somewhere, and now I cant find it, about Fish and Game using birth control for raccoons in areas where they have become huge nuisances, they were trapping and injecting- something. Wonder if they are using it where you live?

[Chicken lady]

Actually, what I asked was "does this sound normal under the circumstances, or does it sound like I have something else going on" (as in my reaction is out of line with my stimuli)

and the the response I got was pretty much, nope, you may have something biological going on, but the problem is probably your life." And I took the day off! (Mostly) and I feel a little better.

I react strongly and often badly to drugs. I prefer to avoid them when reasonable.

For my daughter's wedding, we changed the date while they were out of the country. In order to save money, they had no cell phones or computer access. The only way to reach them was by calling the tour company (during business hours) and having them figure out which ship my inlaws were on and radio the ship a message. We had 24 hours to make the decision, so we didn't do that, and it ended up being a date when they would be out of the country again.

but they now carry a cell phone "for emergency contact" so we can't do that again.

They asked to stay with us, I told dh no. He told them no.

there are now two days worth of dishes in my sink, so I suppose I will switch over the dishwasher.

[iris lilies]

That is great news, that your inlaws will not be staying with you during this upcoming wedding weekend. Major score!

You may well have someth Ng physiological going on. So what is your next step? No change in routine, no drugs considered, what then? You must have some ideas.

[Chicken lady]

Oops, missed this page.

where I live they mostly use snares for raccoons. also leg traps. Followed by bullets. It's illegal to release them.

i decided to just start over with my class work. I do have notes, and I will end up with a usable mold even if I can't cast anything. Since I won't be casting or glazing, I'm going to take my time and make a couple of nice additional molds. I will miss the reduction firing, but that is ok. Another time.

[Chicken lady]

Still struggling. Yesterday was not good. I think I might skip the food bank again tonight. I know they are expecting me back, but I didn't actually tell them when I would be back. I have no idea how to call anyone.

the people in my house can't hear me.

[Ultralight]

Still struggling. Yesterday was not good. I think I might skip the food bank again tonight. I know they are expecting me back, but I didn't actually tell them when I would be back. I have no idea how to call anyone.

the people in my house can't hear me.

CL: I am very sorry to hear you are going through this.

[nswef]

Hugs to you CL.

[Tybee]

Hope today and is better, and under the circumstances you are describing, a therapist might be extremely helpful, to figure out what is going on, and strategies to change things that are not working for you.

[early morning]

the people in my house can't hear me. (((CL)))
I'm sorry you're down, and going through this. I don't know what will help you - I don't even know how to help myself some days. All I can say is use the supports you have, even if that just means venting here.

[Geila]

Actually, what I asked was "does this sound normal under the circumstances, or does it sound like I have something else going on" (as in my reaction is out of line with my stimuli)

and the the response I got was pretty much, nope, you may have something biological going on, but the problem is probably your life."


I think the reason we can't answer your question (as much as we would like to) is that we just don't know. Everyone has a different tolerance and preference for activity and commitments. One person's enough is another's too much. I've been thinking of starting a thread that might shed some light into this aspect to see if it helps at all.

[Tybee]

My moods are so dependent on what is going on around me. If I am out doing things I like, I am happy. If I am home working and things start getting gnarly at work, I am anxious and down.

So maybe CL the time mapping thread would help you figurethis out? Maybe I will try this and try to map my moods along with my time.