View Full Version : Fierce at 50, When You Are 20 Or 30
I'm waiting on my chair delivery and wandering around the interwebs today. Here's something else that I enjoyed and that really resonated with me. I'll be 50 soon and this makes me glad I was a bit wild in my younger years.
http://amidprivilege.com/2009/04/fierce-at-50-when-you-are-20-or-30-2/
I found it an odd article. What has she done with her life up till now?
OK, I am 73. About a year ago, I was invited to a neighbour's cosmetic demonstration to show the 20-40 year-olds present as well as me how to prevent wrinkles. Eventually they asked me what I had done all my life as I had the skin that they wished to have. I had a hard time understanding why they were into using $100 tubes of wrinkle preventive per month but I was very quiet and discreet in my comments.
At age 53, i had a royal battle with governmental and professional bureaucracy that were inhibiting me from freely providing needed oral healthcare. After 7 years I stepped back after many others stepped up and within 3 years, the legislation changed. Today these types of service are taken for granted.
I never wore spikes or tight pants as I think they look silly now and did then even in my 36-26-36 figure. I had better things to spend my money on like paying mortgage, groceries, children's figure skating, piano and swimming lessons etc.
I have done more travel in my 40's and onwards than earlier as I was simply too broke with the basic costs of living a wonderfully interesting life.
with family, a farm, volunteering and satisfying my curiosity.
I do agree with the dieting and exercise comments though.
I made it through the state Fire Academy at the age of 50. I'm just getting started...
I liked about half of what she had to say. I weighed 98 lbs for most of my adult life, and never did tight pants or high heels because they are uncomfortable. I like to be comfortable and dressing comfortably would be on my list of things that thou shalt do. In fact, we live in an amazing era which offers things to wear (even women's shoes!) which are both cute and comfortable.
I wore the heels and am glad I did because now it hurts me whereas then it didn't. This past week I lost 2 pounds and am aiming for more to take the pressure off my ankles and feet, but I don't expect to ever go back to anything high. And the stretch pullup pants with no buckles or zippers look increasingly appealing, but I am not willing to give up my jeans etc. (yet).
Williamsmith
8-6-17, 7:50am
I experienced a rebirth at age 51. I don't do things the way I did at 20. I don't bear hug up trees and hunt from 30 feet high anymore. I pretty much wear the same clothes. Jeans, shorts and t-shirts and polo shirts. I live a slower lifestyle which fits me. Yes, I have less hair, I have to watch what I eat and force regular exercise but all in all, the 50 years have been good to me and I have adjusted to a back that is broken.
If I were that 50 year old talking to my 20-30 year old self, I would stress the sunscreen part. I'm one of the ones who went out in the sun with my baby oil and aluminum foil-ed record album cover--and being Anglo/pale skinned, I know I did myself no favors at all.
I agree that it's fun to follow the trends when you're young, and to explore your style. Why not?
I admire young women who can tolerate 4" heels during their workday. I never did that, and I have no regrets. Not something I would tell my young self I should do.
Sensible eating is, of course, smart no matter what age you are. I have never had an issue with weight, really, and still don't. I don't sweat the slight creep up in weight.
Travel: Yes, I would definitely encourage that, at any age.
In summary, I would tell my young self to not only be fierce, but fearless. You'll find enough reasons to be fearful later on. If you put off those decisions to do something a little "wild and crazy" when you're young, you'll probably never get a second chance.
I kinda cracked up, I am 50 now. Yes on the sunscreen, but I still like getting a little tan. I was so brown in the summer my school photos were always weird in fall. I just had someone guess my age 5 years younger, would have been younger than that if my hair was not white. I used ivory bar soap on my face and a decent basic lotion, oil of Olay is really good. And I relax my face in meditation every day.
So the heels thing, and follow the trends. Well no heels but punks did wear skinny pants. I had some great outfits, various types of black. Not sure anyone else thought I looked cool.
iris lilies
8-6-17, 11:51am
I did wear high(er) heels sometimes for work, but never spiked heels. Still,
I have the bunions to prove it. I like "kitten" heels (although the name is stupid) they are easy to wear and still dressy.
ApatheticNoMore
8-6-17, 12:50pm
I agree that it's fun to follow the trends when you're young, and to explore your style. Why not?
because it's boring (hard to imagine much more boring than following fashion trends) and demoralizing to be so superficial (yea focusing on one's looks is demoralizing for many women no matter age or appearance.). So for the original article: focusing on one's looks too much (I'm not saying one must be a complete slob) at any age is mentally unhealthy, I don't think this is good advice for women. Women would benefit far more from actual old school feminism than this garbage IMNSHO. Nah it doesn't mean they have to themselves become firefighters if they don't want to :), there are many paths afterall it's just ... an article that tells women to focus that much on their looks wtf you know (yea not all the points relate to that, not travel, but TOO MANY do).
And if anything I'd rather spice it up when old, it' more transgressive as in "i dont' give a f, I'm old and so what":
"When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me"
although really following trends seems kind of stupid at any age.
--
I have always believed wearing heels is probably the major reason women have foot pain when older (no of course not the only reason), I have never worn heels, I like my feet, flat sandals are cuter anyway :).
Good point, ANM. High heels aren't just uncomfortable, they are actually bad for you.
I made it through the state Fire Academy at the age of 50. I'm just getting started...
I agree with Bae. Got certified to dive at age 47. I'm diving nearly every weekend. Have plans to gradually get more training to do deeper wrecks (as in the 150ft range).
I'm just getting started.
I went back and reread the article because I thought maybe I had missed something--the category was something about style and privilege, which put me off from the start. It all seems to be aimed at how women look, and how younger women should behave a certain way because they are going to age, but then there is the category about traveling more, which makes no sense at all, in the context of life advice about wearing high heels and sunscreen.
Ew, if that is how you spell that reaction.
Each season in life has it's own unique gifts and challenges. I think the author was talking about enjoying the gifts of youth to their fullest because youth is fleeting. But if you don't like her list, just write your own!
Even though I'm trying to take good care of my body and am enjoying this season in my life a great deal, I'm still aware of the challenge of a physically aging body. I'm happier today than I was at 25, but my body has deteriorated and will continue to deteriorate with every passing year. That's not me being depressed, or depressing, it's just me being aware.
I'm enjoying different things than I did in my 20's and 30's, even early 40's. I'm glad I traveled a lot when I was younger. And danced. I danced a lot. And had a mini love affair with fashion. It was a lot of fun! All of it. Now I get to try out new things. I'm looking forward to discovering new pleasures in my 50's, 60's and 70's.
And in my 70's, I hope to look back on this season of my life and feel happy and glad that I enjoyed its gifts to the fullest.
ApatheticNoMore
8-7-17, 10:56am
I went back and reread the article because I thought maybe I had missed something--the category was something about style and privilege, which put me off from the start. It all seems to be aimed at how women look, and how younger women should behave a certain way because they are going to age, but then there is the category about traveling more, which makes no sense at all, in the context of life advice about wearing high heels and sunscreen.
Ew, if that is how you spell that reaction.
+1 yea what I was saying kinda. Was of course thinking of privilege and how even travel is often a sign of privilege (have the money to spend one's vacations that way as someone mentioned, or if one does it cheaply it is possible it indicates even more privilege to be able to take off that way, I don't know ... not a sociologist but I suspect so). But most of the article wasn't really about that but about looks.
Each season in life has it's own unique gifts and challenges. I think the author was talking about enjoying the gifts of youth to their fullest because youth is fleeting.
but I think women are already made 100% neurotic about age in the culture as is, and not JUST when they turn 50 either. Turning 30 is hard for women (just read people turning that age online if you don't remember, I had to constantly remind myself after 30 that I was old and so should have a more frankly depressive attitude about life), 35, 40, 45 etc.. I figure there is not hardly a woman alive in this culture not aware that youth is fleeing and not just where it's entirely relevant either like to procreation. And this is likely a great negative to women, because it causes them to see life not just in terms of a full lifespan or even a full lifespan until disability and dementia kicks in at 85 or 90 or something (if it does), but in terms of only "when I am young and beautiful". Ask a woman at 35 where she sees herself in 5 years, in other words to have goals, to plan ahead etc. all those supposedly healthy things, and she might not be able to get past the fact "ugh I'll be 40!!!!" I have been asked that question and went into exactly that black out, can't even see beyond that to plan and hope.
And had a mini love affair with fashion.
odd advice for all women at 20 and 30 though considering some women were never into fashion to begin with and don't even see the appeal.
I repeat, if you don't like someone else's list: WRITE YOUR OWN!!! :) And then post it here for everyone to enjoy. :D
I've moved on from enjoying memories of seasons past and am now pondering THIS season's gifts. I want to make sure I enjoy them to the fullest.
On privilege - I try to be aware of my privilege so that I can be grateful for it. And it doesn't have to be big privilege (wealth or whatever), it can be the privilege of having access to hot running water in the comfort of my own home. Having the privilege of a body that allows me to walk and dance (I still dance!) and take care of my needs and the needs of my family. The privilege to choose how to spend my days. So. Much. Privilege. And I'm grateful for it every day. And I feel pain and compassion for the millions of people around the world who lack even the most basic of needs and privileges. Like food and safety. And love. Respect.
I don't mean to end this post on a sad note, but I do think it's important to have perspective.
I thought you wanted to talk about the article, Geila. It was her list, right? I think those of us who thought it was an odd article were commenting on it as an article, or at least I was. I was not trying to post my own life list, which would of course look different.
I am glad you have so much and are grateful, that is a wonderful way to be.
ApatheticNoMore
8-7-17, 1:30pm
oh I argue when I have strong thoughts and impressions on things, I mean no harm by it, it's all in the spirit of debate though I do have a position. How one lives their life if it truly does not harm others is *shrug* (so if collecting clothes is one's thing so be it - at most it's wasteful but so is most of modern western life unfortunately so it's hardly anything special there). However ... social pressures that push people in what I think are harmful ways is something to be elaborated, especially as they can be changed by awareness sometimes without even legislation which so many other problems require.
My list would be something like enjoy your looks and dress cute if you want, but fundamentally value yourself on other attributes than youth and appearance, and yes they won't last and so therefore, learn, hope that you might through gathering knowledge and experience be blessed with wisdom someday when you are older, build friendships etc..
There is perspective of privilege, which would be fine if the argument I was making was actually a whine about privilege (I know it might seem like that but it wasn't) and some people having more money to travel than others when even those who don't should be grateful they have running water and enough to eat and should be glad. That is well and fine. But I was more addressing that if people feel bad after reading an article like that because they didn't travel in their youth or something, that it isn't in everyone's *possibilities* to do so anyway, maybe they were working too hard just to make it, that the things they are told they *should* do often come from a perspective of the kind of privilege maybe the top 20-30% of even the U.S. has (just like sitcoms show people living a lifestyle that no one working the jobs they supposedly have can live), in a culture that really doesn't reward travel for most people etc. (it's more tolerated in OZ if you go on walkabout heh, in the U.S. employers might wonder what the @#$# you did then). But nothing is stopping someone earning good money in their 20s from traveling in their 2-3 weeks off a year if they want to, or not if they don't.
My list would be very pragmatic, about things like get professional licensure in something, start your own business, try to avoid having a child until you can support yourself and your child in a lifestyle you would like, believe in yourself, avoid getting married if you can. Enjoy yourself! Oh, and save 20% of every penny you earn.
That is the kind of advice 20-30 year old me needed. I was great at the makeup, sunscreen, clothing, diet, etc. Just couldn't get the hang of the important stuff, the stuff that I wish I knew now at 61!
Well, the article resonated with me and that's why I shared it. It was nice to remember all the fun of the earlier decades because all too often, we remember our mistakes and the challenges more than the fun stuff. But I can see that it did not resonate for most people here.
I do think it would be interesting to see what people here would write to their younger selves from the vantage point of age and life experience. In that sense, I see this article as a chance to expand our mind, rather than contract it. I look for the positive wherever I can.
And thank you for your kind words. :)
My list would be very pragmatic, about things like get professional licensure in something, start your own business, try to avoid having a child until you can support yourself and your child in a lifestyle you would like, believe in yourself, avoid getting married if you can. Enjoy yourself! Oh, and save 20% of every penny you earn.
That is the kind of advice 20-30 year old me needed. I was great at the makeup, sunscreen, clothing, diet, etc. Just couldn't get the hang of the important stuff, the stuff that I wish I knew now at 61!
Interesting. I was forced to be responsible at a very young age by life circumstances. I was working full-time by 16 while still in high school and supporting myself by 18. For several years I worked 2 jobs. And at 25, I took on a house mortgage on a fixer-upper. Maybe that's why I'm glad to remember that in those times of hard work, and sometimes overwhelming responsibility, I still had fun.
And I can see why your own advice would be different.
ApatheticNoMore
8-7-17, 1:53pm
My list would be very pragmatic, about things like get professional licensure in something, start your own business, try to avoid having a child until you can support yourself and your child in a lifestyle you would like, believe in yourself, avoid getting married if you can. Enjoy yourself! Oh, and save 20% of every penny you earn.
That is the kind of advice 20-30 year old me needed. I was great at the makeup, sunscreen, clothing, diet, etc. Just couldn't get the hang of the important stuff, the stuff that I wish I knew now at 61!
yea mine would be much about what I really do value such as knowledge and wisdom (and the latter is for age afterall), but pragmatically it would be stuff like: don't get involved with abusive men (mostly just verbal in my case mind you), that trust that even though many men are jerks there are a few good men out there, and the rest aren't worth one's time. And yes do things good for career, etc., of course.
Interesting. I was forced to be responsible at a very young age by life circumstances. I was working full-time by 16 while still in high school and supporting myself by 18. For several years I worked 2 jobs. And at 25, I took on a house mortgage on a fixer-upper. Maybe that's why I'm glad to remember that in those times of hard work, and sometimes overwhelming responsibility, I still had fun.
Wow. I admire you greatly. So many teens these days feel entitled and if things don't go right they just give up. You were a fighter and had determination to make something of yourself.
Wow. I admire you greatly. So many teens these days feel entitled and if things don't go right they just give up. You were a fighter and had determination to make something of yourself.
You are so kind and sweet! You made me tear up. I'm going to begin the productive part of my day and take your lovely words with me. :thankyou:
I observe my 34 yo DD's lifestyle and am in many ways, envious. She has a solid career, house and husband she loves. Also has lots of fun, friends and new experiences as a requirement. I think she is a lot more fearless than I was at that age. I sense that she has also inherited my practical side which will emerge as she ages. 50 was just a number to me since I didn't feel or look any different than 40. Dealing with the hormonal changes was a huge drag at 50-55 but once beyond all that, 60+ is by far the most content I've been in life. High heels and such hold absolutely no interest for me, then or now.
Teacher Terry
8-7-17, 2:59pm
I did not mind aging until 55. That is when I noticed real changes that I did not like. Then I had a few friends die and felt lucky. I went through a 5 year period where I had a love affair with fashion but I as unhappy at the time and it went away as soon as I divorced DH # 2.
Teacher Terry
8-7-17, 3:00pm
Geila, your story is amazing. YOu are one tough woman. A great example of taking charge instead of feeling sorry for yourself.
ApatheticNoMore
8-7-17, 3:58pm
I don't see how advice that women should focus on things that are likely to provide more contentment long term rather than agonizing over aging is anything but positive. But ok fine women, accept your value as being primarily in how you look and above all how you look to men (and in stuff you can buy!) as if that ever lead anywhere good. The other stuff I don't care, I have been eating healthy since 20 something and I'm sure that is true of many women. And diet or don't diet, but the problem with dieting is probably that many people try what are frankly to them unsustainable diets physically (body can't take super low calories for instance) or diet at times in life when they aren't strong psychologically - one or the other or both - and that's hard.
I do remember my younger self clearly enough to know that if I reached back in time and gave her good advice, she probably would not take it!:laff:
I love fashion like I love certain kinds of art, but being a slave to fashion is a fool's game. Developing a personal style is something else, and I expect that's pretty satisfying. (Unfortunately, my personal style is "utilitarian.") I have a long list of caveats for my younger self--pay attention to your education, don't sleepwalk through it, go abroad and stay there for long enough to decide whether you want to come back, stretch yourself...I wouldn't bother with advice on wearing heels, but I might advise my younger self to avoid excessive carbs and be wary of advice of the "everyone knows" variety. I'm solidly with ANM where it comes to thinking like a feminist and (mostly) avoiding the trap of obsessing about looks and aging, though when the reality (not the perception) of aging hits, it can be brutal.
Teacher Terry
8-7-17, 4:48pm
Aging seems to coincide with retiring or winding down career, kids leaving nest, parents or spouse having challenges etc so I think all these are linked. So it is not all about looks. It is also about your own mortality slapping you in the face.
iris lilies
8-7-17, 5:47pm
I love fashion like I love certain kinds of art, but being a slave to fashion is a fool's game. Developing a personal style is something else, and I expect that's pretty satisfying. (Unfortunately, my personal style is "utilitarian.") I have a long list of caveats for my younger self--pay attention to your education, don't sleepwalk through it, go abroad and stay there for long enough to decide whether you want to come back, stretch yourself...I wouldn't bother with advice on wearing heels, but I might advise my younger self to avoid excessive carbs and be wary of advice of the "everyone knows" variety. I'm solidly with ANM where it comes to thinking like a feminist and (mostly) avoiding the trap of obsessing about looks and aging, though when the reality (not the perception) of aging hits, it can be brutal.
This post touched off random thoughts:
yeah, aging signs, just this week I looked down at the inside of my arms and saw crepy skin. Now that is new. Ugh. But usually appearence doesnt bother me all that much, and lately I am horrified at how quickly my muscles cool and seize after sitting. After I get up I hobble around like an old woman, and that isnt me, I can bend just fine. Once everything is warmed up I am fine. I have to hid
e this, it make me feel very old and frail, and I act like a cat, hiding my frailty from others. Otherwise the pack will turn on me, or something.
In my head my "style" is much like Frankie's in the tv show "Grace and Frankie" i.e. long gypsy floaty skirts, long tunics, pattern on pattern, dangly earrings, bracelets and lots of them. But in reality I cant be bothered with all of that movement of the jangling, swirling, fabric and jewelry. I like to move around unencumbered.
This post touched off random thoughts:
yeah, aging signs, just this week I looked down at the inside of my arms and saw crepy skin. Now that is new. Ugh. But usually appearence doesnt bother me all that much, and lately I am horrified at how quickly my muscles cool and seize after sitting. After I get up I hobble around like an old woman, and that isnt me, I can bend just fine. Once everything is warmed up I am fine. I have to hid
e this, it make me feel very old and frail, and I act like a cat, hiding my frailty from others. Otherwise the pack will turn on me, or something.
In my head my "style" is much like Frankie's in the tv show "Grace and Frankie" i.e. long gypsy floaty skirts, long tunics, pattern on pattern, dangly earrings, bracelets and lots of them. But in reality I cant be bothered with all of that movement of the jangling, swirling, fabric and jewelry. I like to move around unencumbered.
I've ossified. I understand it's possible to reverse this. I hope so.
I have the exact same mental aesthetic as you do. But I dress in jeans, t-shirts, and overshirts. I have a completely different life in my thoughts. :D
Geila, I understand the fun of fashion. One of my favorite shows is Project Runway. I think that fashion can be a means of self-expression, no matter how old you are. And I believe that no matter what you wear is a statement, even if you don't care what you wear--that's a statement, too. But I admire people who just have fun with it. Doesn't mean you have to make it more important in your life that it needs to be, unless you're a fashion designer, but I think identifying with a style is part of being human. My "style" is kind of an Ann Taylor classic dressing. I buy Ralph Lauren when it's on sale with an additional 50% off. It looks like a very unstyled style, but I can't shake it. I would love to wear those floaty skirts and floral off-shoulder blouses, but every time I try that style, it sits in my closet and it's a total waste of money. I can't shake the Jackie T-shirts and ballet flats.
My daughter bought me a big chunky be-ribboned necklace and I was embarrassed even looking at myself in the mirror. My DIL bought me a little mustard seed on a cheap metal chain and I wear it all the time.
Just a random thought in response to the original article.
Is there ageism in our collective thinking, especially in women? Does society see youth as the peak of life and everything else as going downhill? Whatever happened to the veneration and respect of the elders? Have the elders not held up their end of supporting the needs of society and lost the confidence of the younger generations? I hear complaints about the self-centredness of the young with the current instant-response technology but have the older generations not done the same thing with preoccupation of TV and that technology?
Gella asked for our individual input. I see myself and others as simply expressing thoughts. If you think about and focus on being old, you will look for signs of aging and decline and be old. Friends are all worried about the possibility of decline, study and go into long discussions about the stages of decline and who has declined. Why?
I am alive and enjoying being alive. I cherish life and savour being alive. I walk my dog and greet each neighbour with joy. To those throughout my day who are facing challenges, I offer support, a listening ear, compassion and try to make them feel valued.
That is an ageless activity and the role of every generation. That is what I would suggest to the 20-30 year-olds and everyone else as well.
What would I tell my younger self? Say circa 1985?
Don't sell the Microsoft! Shale oil is not the coming thing.
That sunscreen thing applies.
Beware of salespeople (especially brokers) in short skirts.
Be grateful for military grooming regulations. They will save you a lot of embarrassing pictures someday.
Hang onto quality friendships, even when it's inconvenient.
Face time expended can never be recovered.
Don't "follow your passions" over some cliff. You'll be surprised how "dreams" evolve, and a little capital never hurt anybody.
Plan, but be flexible as fate plays her little jokes on you.
You may not recognize good luck until after the fact. Sometimes long after.
Nobody's beaten until he stops fighting.
iris lilies
8-8-17, 9:17am
Just a random thought in response to the original article.
Is there ageism in our collective thinking, especially in women? Does society see youth as the peak of life and everything else as going downhill? Whatever happened to the veneration and respect of the elders? Have the elders not held up their end of supporting the needs of society and lost the confidence of the younger generations? I hear complaints about the self-centredness of the young with the current instant-response technology but have the older generations not done the same thing with preoccupation of TV and that technology?
Gella asked for our individual input. I see myself and others as simply expressing thoughts. If you think about and focus on being old, you will look for signs of aging and decline and be old. Friends are all worried about the possibility of decline, study and go into long discussions about the stages of decline and who has declined. Why?
I am alive and enjoying being alive. I cherish life and savour being alive. I walk my dog and greet each neighbour with joy. To those throughout my day who are facing challenges, I offer support, a listening ear, compassion and try to make them feel valued.
That is an ageless activity and the role of every generation. That is what I would suggest to the 20-30 year-olds and everyone else as well.
Yes, thank you! A little wrinkled skin on the inside of my arms is NOT a big deal.
All of my parts work, that is what is important.
I love your perspective, Razz!
I buy Ralph Lauren when it's on sale with an additional 50% off. It looks like a very unstyled style, but I can't shake it..
Gosh darn it, I'm in Chicago on business, and found two Ralph Lauren shirts at T.J. Maxx at a deep discount.
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