View Full Version : not comparing, okay comparing
I just got the schedule of our training for all staff the next 2 days. I was contacted yesterday about sharing an hour long spot with another person about literacy programs since someone heard I had good literacy programming, It will be very brief of course but I appreciate being asked to share. I had told the organizer several weeks ago that I was willing to help with anything for the training days even though I would be on vacation before, he could count on using me.
So I just looked over the schedule and I am having crappy sour grapes, no other way to put it. There are a lot of people doing hour long sessions and one is a young lady who has hour long spots on both training days. The last training event I worked on with her she was kinda a flake, didn't do her part of what she said she would and so I stepped in. It was a small thing but crucial. She is also on my list of people who did not complete the summer reading program I ran, or at least get the information back to me. That is going to supervisors this week to take care of. So I am just frustrated, I have been working on my career goals but every year they change who does certain things, hire new people, etc. and I have to start over trying to make the progress in the areas I try to focus on, Meanwhile I don't think I am as good as a trainer as I was a few years ago. I am not as confident or energetic as I was before.
I am sure this is normal career stuff, but it also has an element of seeing how younger people are being supported and encouraged where I feel my age (50) is already seen as I had my time already. And I spent all those younger years being told the boomers would retire so wait my turn. Oh I am just whiny frustrated.
Meanwhile I don't think I am as good as a trainer as I was a few years ago. I am not as confident or energetic as I was before.
When you see that nothing ever changes, there are always new hires and the HR dept has a revolving door, they rehash the same things every year....yeah, it's hard to be as energetic.
Thanks Float, I realize part of this is not getting the fellowship as well. It is lurking in the back.
So this young lady will likely move on in awhile, I can't go down in income so I may be a lifer. I like my job a lot I just really wanted to grow in the area of staff training. After 4 years of asking it is hard to get energized.
Zoe, Maybe staff training isn't where you "truly" need to be? Is it more money to get the training slot or is it more that you are being ignored? Is your goal to be solely a staff trainer? I'm sorry about your fellowship, that affects a lot of your thinking I would expect. It's hard to stay enthusiastic and energetic when you feel disrespected. I'm thinking about you and sending healing and clarifying thoughts to you.
Aw that is too bad, Zoe . That kind of thing was ALWAYS happening at my old job--I felt like Little Red Hen. And yes, disresprect--that was the coin of the realm.
Oh well. I would not be surprised if ageism were a part of it. They fired all my old bosses who were my age and older, then made them sign a paper saying they were not firing them because they were old!
I stepped down because the job was making me physically ill. Wish I still had the money, but I was afraid it was going to kill me, but then I am ten years older than you are.
I think emotional divestment is a great skill in today's work environment.
I just go to work and do the tasks. When I have to interact with colleagues or bosses I just pretend -- I literally act (like an actor) and tell them whatever they want to hear.
Then when I clock out at the end of the day I become my real self.
If you are going to be emotionally invested in your work, then you'll feel like a beat up old pinball in a pinball machine.
I think emotional divestment is a great skill in today's work environment.
I just go to work and do the tasks. When I have to interact with colleagues or bosses I just pretend -- I literally act (like an actor) and tell them whatever they want to hear.
Then when I clock out at the end of the day I become my real self.
If you are going to be emotionally invested in your work, then you'll feel like a beat up old pinball in a pinball machine.
So true, and very wise!
It is just a really hard time of year, watching the new teachers get hired and classrooms, and then not getting the fellowship. I think is is feeling like I don't have a voice or am not being listened to, and then not being chosen, that is the theme. I never just sat around waiting for something to happen for me. When I was student teaching and looking for a job I worked so hard, did extra volunteer work, took any job they called me for, etc. I was trusted enough to sub for school the first week of school and the last week of school. I didn't get any interviews when I applied for permanent jobs. In my current district I started in after school programming and applied for permanent jobs for the first 5 years. I didn't get even one interview, ever, even with principals I knew. I know it was a recession, that I was a middle aged career changer with a masters (costs more), it just was really hard until I let my teaching license go finally.
I don't know how to explain myself, and I don't want to get defensive, however I am a ambitious person and I thrive with intellectually challenge. I am not someone who can just totally check out with my job which is one reason I went into this field of work. That may mean I have disappointments at times, but it is worth it. I am still going to try for a real career, I put that aside for many years to take care of everyone else. I talked to the person I will be doing training with, apparently they chose her to do training and she had never done it before and was about to say no when they told her that they were pairing her with me. I apparently have a reputation as a great trainer. We planned out the training, and I really think the department is basically asking me to train her as well but won't say that directly.
iris lilies
8-8-17, 10:42pm
OP, what does "not being listened to" mean to you? It sounds as though you expect your suggestions to be adopted fully.
In an organization, when voices are heard it doesnt necessarily follow that those ideas are adopted, that the recommendations of the voices are put into place. But the voices are "heard."
How do your handle this issue with staff who report to you? I'll bet you dont adopt every suggestion they make but do you "hear" them? I'll bet you do.
I don't expect that I will get people to do what I want, or that it will be all my way. It is more of a evaluating if I am doing it well, talking to the right person, being open to feedback, and working towards something. So if I am asking a specific thing year after year am I simply not qualified and need to learn or practice things? Do I not understand the structure of roles to ask the right person? Am I bringing this up at the wrong time, ie a week after the training schedule was created? And the first year or so I really didn't expect to necessarily have someone remember or listen well, just like I didn't expect to get a teaching interview the first time I did a great job as a substitute teacher. Mostly I think despite all the rhetoric over the years there is too much change and chaos to actually help any of us develop our skills in a coherent manner. They come up with something like peer mentors or actual mentors or some idea every year, it falls apart typically. I sign up and try it out every time, do I get an A for effort (just kidding).
As far as my own staff, I respond to them. I don't do everything they want, in fact I know I am going to struggle with one person who is already questioning me and we have only had one back to school phone call! It is going to be my way however I will spend some time talking to her about it, It is just basic communication skills. Like answering the email or saying more than 'great' verbally. Even just saying (with a nice tone) that this year the supervisors are taking the lead on training would at least give me a response. Or when the next training date comes up and you are not using me just say something, yes difficult but that is why people are managers. I need to do that with my staff after all,
I think it's time for you to let go of all of your personal goals related to this job, and to simply follow the organizational goals as they are given to you.
I reached that point in my career. It's not really about me. It's about the organization.
So what if you speak for 30 minutes and someone else speaks for two hours - if you let go of those ideas it won't even matter anymore. You will feel more peaceful and your time away from work will be your time again - instead of thinking about work so much.
iris lilies
8-9-17, 12:27am
Zoe Girl, what happened to the mentor who was guiding you last year? How did that work out? What did/does she tell you about this situation? Are you continuing that relationship?
It is just a really hard time of year...
Judging by your posts it is always a really tough time of year.
I am not being snarky in saying this. In fact, I would suggest you write down at the end of each day for a year your feelings on your ob/the work day. Then on the 365th day read through those entries. I bet you will see what all of us see on here.
What would you see? That this job and your expectations of it consume you. This job crushes and mangles you emotionally.
I care about you. So I am suggesting you emotionally divest from this work.
I think it's time for you to let go of all of your personal goals related to this job, and to simply follow the organizational goals as they are given to you.
Amen to this!
At my work, before meetings and performance reviews and so forth, I write this down on my pad of paper:
D.E.B.
D.T.
What do these mean?
Don't Even Bother and Don't Talk
Why do I do this? Because briefly, some time back, I would try to suggest and advocate for better practices and better policies. I would try to create a better work environment and to increase productivity and efficiency and so forth. I had lots of ideas and I would not just suggest ideas, but I would work to try to get them implemented. But no one ever listened or cared. Silly ideas would gain traction and good ideas would get dismissed (not just mine). I was wasting my breath.
So now I get most of my job satisfaction from simply knowing I was right internally. By this I mean: The bosses will come up with some cockamamie ideas, they will implement them with fervor, they'll repeat mindless slogans over and over, and then at the end of it the whole idiotic thing will fail. Then I will say to myself: "Ultralight, you were right."
Very satisfying by comparison!
This is why we had like 4 "re-structures" in 2 years at my work.
The inmates are in charge of the insane asylum. It is best to just get out of their way and collect your pay.
I reached that point in my career. It's not really about me. It's about the organization. I actually think this is about you (not the organization). Divesting emotionally will save your sanity.
So what if you speak for 30 minutes and someone else speaks for two hours - if you let go of those ideas it won't even matter anymore. You will feel more peaceful and your time away from work will be your time again - instead of thinking about work so much.
Amen to this too!
Chicken lady
8-9-17, 7:45am
Here is my take on my job - it's not about me, it's not about the organization, it's not about the parents, it's about the kids. And if one of them had a better year because I was there, and I didn't harm (by which I mean discourage, delay, etc - I would never physically hurt a student) anyone, it was a good year.
where I work, some of the kids give "teacher gifts" and some don't. I have one student who brings me a handmade card every Christmas and spring telling me what she is glad to have learned that semester. I have them in a file for bad days. It's one of my favorite gifts.
CL, that is a lovely gift. And you are right, that it is completely possible to be in a less than perfect organization and still do good work, and still enrich the lives of our students.
I think Tammy has the right idea about getting in a mindset that does the job as required without fighting the organization or requiring it to give her affirmation of her value.
Some workplaces are so bad that this is difficult,or bad because they are requiring you do to do something that goes against your values.
I guess a lot of the challenge of work is figuring out where those lines lie.
But as CL points out, if you can focus on what you are really giving, the nurturing of the kids, then that is a whole lot better place to be.
But if you want to be doing training on a professional basis, then maybe keep going with that, look for work outside of the organization you are in.
Williamsmith
8-9-17, 8:55am
Speaking from experience and having not one wit of research behind me, having been a grunt and not a supervisor my entire work life.....human resource management usually fails when they place employees into categories like grading out livestock at the county fair.
I always considered my supervisor as a potential facilitator in making my job easier or a potential royal pain in the arse. I manipulated them accordingly. In my mind, all management has written off at least 3/4 of the work force as either totally disengaged or just getting by. The small percentage they deem as innovators are either newbies or haven't been screwed over yet. This is a constantly changing boiling pot. Some places are boiling over. Some just simmering.
Therfore, the excuses management provides for choices they make, policy they enact, etc......that was their game and best to steer clear. Define your worthy mission and get things done despite your leadership.
I do appreciate you all responding, and I can refocus on the kids when they are back. Already I am signing kids up for clubs and meeting them at the playdate we had so that is very encouraging. I have girls who want to run! I am very excited about that program and I am keeping up running so I can do the 5K with them. I am with staff today and tomorrow so that is also something that encourages me and helps me be positive.
IL thank you for remembering the mentor. I am not sure this year, for awhile she was in my direct line of supervision so I did not see her as a mentor. This year we have some changes and so it is possible, we did have one really crappy conversation but I don't tend to let that take over a relationship. In our crappy conversation she really talked over and interrupted a lot, I understand looking back more of the context, however one of the things I would like to learn is how not to get talked over!
Ultralight, I appreciate what you are saying is trying to be helpful. I am not wired that way. So if I can't make progress in this department or district I will see if I can get enough resources to start my own organization or company. My mother did that when she hit this in her career, going back into a career when kids got older she hit some roadblocks of people not wanting to hire her, not respecting the extensive work she had done as a volunteer as job skills, etc. So she started a non-profit and ran a senior daycare for 12 years. She is still working a little at 74 and loves it, However the 3 women I know who have done something like this are all married or partnered, ie. the rent is paid and they have access to health insurance. If I can pull it off I will need every one of my current work contacts to network with, so no burning bridges.
Zoe I think you've gotten some good advice here. Having been a teacher for 31 years I watched many excellent people be overlooked. Especially excellent substitutes. The system LOVES good substitutes and doesn't want them to move into teaching staff because it costs! Money and ego run all of it and if you can do as some suggest and focus on the good you do with the kids it might help. You will get validation from them and perhaps your co workers. I was lucky to have an excellent team of teachers who got me through the awful times, but once I realized I couldn't change the system and just did what I felt was right within those guidelines...life was easier- plus a good counselor! I feel for you and your deep frustration and sorrow.
Zoe I think you've gotten some good advice here. Having been a teacher for 31 years I watched many excellent people be overlooked. Especially excellent substitutes. The system LOVES good substitutes and doesn't want them to move into teaching staff because it costs! Money and ego run all of it and if you can do as some suggest and focus on the good you do with the kids it might help. You will get validation from them and perhaps your co workers. I was lucky to have an excellent team of teachers who got me through the awful times, but once I realized I couldn't change the system and just did what I felt was right within those guidelines...life was easier- plus a good counselor! I feel for you and your deep frustration and sorrow.
Thank you nswef. There is a lot of emotions with this, not just how many hours I get to do training. It was very painful to get praise everywhere I went as a sub, and then not get interviews or jobs. The financial part is not a small part either, I lost my house, declared bankruptcy, and started working in my district at $13 an hour to survive. And as a sub you don't make friends, you don't get that social system in place, as a single mom I was quite lonely and vulnerable. I really like the idea that maybe some teachers noticed me (hey all my sub jobs were by personal request) and they would have liked to teach with me. Okay this totally made me cry, ..
As one who has logged in too many years as both subordinate and boss, I have come to these conclusions:
Virtually everybody, be they however worthy or worthless, believes in their bones they are smarter than their boss.
Virtually nobody believes they are being fairly recognized for their contribution.
Many subordinates adapt a strategy of disengagement, choosing to perform at a level just above where it would be worth the trouble to fire them. They become a sort of administrative overhead. In some circumstances, this can be dangerous.
Many subordinates adopt a strategy of “telling the boss what they want to hear”. While they believe this is effective, bosses worth their salary generally see through it. We sometimes laugh about these people at managers’ meetings.
Are some organizations and some people ossified beyond hope of redemption? Probably. Is it reasonable to expect existential validation as part of the benefits package? Probably not. But I think there can in most cases be a middle course. I try to surround myself with staff who are smarter than I am (which has not proved to be very difficult), and give credit where credit is due while quarantining the sulkers where they will do the least harm. I consider it a good exchange when it ends with me saying “I like your idea better”. Adjusting for the fundamental unfairness of life, it seems to work out OK for me.
Ultimately, I would think the psychic toll of play-acting would be greater than trying and failing 90% of the time. As Camus said, “One must imagine Sisyphus happy”. Of course everybody’s circumstances are different.
As one who has logged in too many years as both subordinate and boss, I have come to these conclusions:
You have generously compiled many interesting thoughts and insights. Thanks!
Virtually everybody, be they however worthy or worthless, believes in their bones they are smarter than their boss.
This is probably true. haha
For some bosses, I think: "I am way smarter."
Some other bosses I think: "I am slightly smarter."
Though I have/have had a few bosses who I thought: "This is a toss up."
Virtually nobody believes they are being fairly recognized for their contribution.
More time off, like 6 weeks of vacation time, that'd do it for me!
Many subordinates adapt a strategy of disengagement, choosing to perform at a level just above where it would be worth the trouble to fire them. They become a sort of administrative overhead. In some circumstances, this can be dangerous.
This is my strategy, mostly. Though I would say that I am in no way dangerous to anyone. I'd say I am more insignificant, as are most people, in the eyes of management.
Many subordinates adopt a strategy of “telling the boss what they want to hear”. While they believe this is effective, bosses worth their salary generally see through it. We sometimes laugh about these people at managers’ meetings.
Well, who knows! Maybe they laugh at me. I don't care as long as I keep my job, keep getting paid, and don't have an unbearable time at work.
But I will say this, for the first couple years I did not tell them what they wanted to hear. In fact, I had some rather "tough talks" with bosses. I pushed back. I advocated. I came up with new and inventive ideas. But again, this went nowhere. So I then decided to just be a yes man. So what I wonder is what management thought of such an abrupt change.
Are some organizations and some people ossified beyond hope of redemption? Probably. Is it reasonable to expect existential validation as part of the benefits package? Probably not. But I think there can in most cases be a middle course. I try to surround myself with staff who are smarter than I am (which has not proved to be very difficult), and give credit where credit is due while quarantining the sulkers where they will do the least harm. I consider it a good exchange when it ends with me saying “I like your idea better”. Adjusting for the fundamental unfairness of life, it seems to work out OK for me.
This is actually quite an interesting perspective and practice you have. I'll think on it more. Thought provoking stuff...
Ultimately, I would think the psychic toll of play-acting would be greater than trying and failing 90% of the time. As Camus said, “One must imagine Sisyphus happy”. Of course everybody’s circumstances are different.
What I worry about this what K-Von once said:
"You are what you pretend to be, so be careful what you pretend to be."
In order to cope with this peril, I be sure to do things that reaffirm who I am before and after work -- like meditation, reading, writing in a journal, etc.
Okay today I am in the boss chair. Just so you know my other side. My one challenging staff has already used a tone and manner that is on the edge. I told the staff a little about our plans for this school year, told them primarily that I would know more about what our requirements were for the year on Friday when I had my training, and so didn't explain very much today. The response from her was that she felt disrespected, that we had made decisions without her, we were judging her for issues last year, etc. OMG, I may share my feelings here but I do not go to a supervisor like that. I usually express myself outside and then think about their perspective before I decide if there is anything to actually bring up.
Ultralight
8-10-17, 6:43am
Okay today I am in the boss chair. Just so you know my other side. My one challenging staff has already used a tone and manner that is on the edge. I told the staff a little about our plans for this school year, told them primarily that I would know more about what our requirements were for the year on Friday when I had my training, and so didn't explain very much today. The response from her was that she felt disrespected, that we had made decisions without her, we were judging her for issues last year, etc. OMG, I may share my feelings here but I do not go to a supervisor like that. I usually express myself outside and then think about their perspective before I decide if there is anything to actually bring up.
ZG: This job... and you... it is like when you have a friend who is dating a guy who is totally toxic, the whole relationship is toxic. And it makes your friend into someone she is not. It makes her unhappy, unhealthy, a complainer; it makes her seem worn down and beat down all the time. But for some reason, she just won't break up with him.
Chicken lady
8-10-17, 7:34am
I do like the idea of keeping a daily journal this year - two pages a day - "things that make me stay"/ "things that drive me crazy." If you get to the end of the year and most of the left hand pages just say "paycheck" it's definitely time to move on.
i'm really lucky. I'm pretty sure my boss is smarter than I am. I am absolutely positive that she is better at her job than I would ever be - and I feel like she feels the same about my ability to do my job. And, my organization has a minimum of built in stupid.
UA, I understand and maybe I should just stop posting here honestly. I have so much about my work that I really love, and I try to post that as well. I also tend to have a more broad emotional range, so I feel really excited when I am happy and really upset as well. I have heard my entire life that simply having this range bothers people. It seems like I am in a total crisis to people with a smaller emotional range, I have tried more of the tune-out type of style you are doing and it led to a serious depression, so I will take the larger emotional range. The good news is that I just posted how a goodwill find is making me happy for a week. I have been waiting to finish hiring to gush about my new assistant since I had so many fall through the last 2 years.
But one of the other issues that seems to be missing in this conversation is, where do you honestly think I would go? What other job/career is just simply available without another retraining or pay cut. Unlike a boyfriend I actually need a job to live, and making a basic living wage has only happened in the last couple of years. I have worked my rear off to get where I am and in the living wage category, it took me until I was 48. I like these boards better than new agey type simple boards because we are in reality. Part of my long process to get to a basic living wage was the new agey crap that I was immersed in, rather than real work. Part of my long process was a combination of my mother and ex-husband telling me to think smaller, put the kids first, quit jobs, run away when I got stressed instead of learning, etc. Oh yeah recession. Trust me I would be more negative here if I didn't have this job and my current payrate.
Zoe, Keep posting. Don't let what others think stop you from doing what you feel is working for you. You've had a long and complicated journey and made progress.
Williamsmith
8-10-17, 9:00am
I think I understand UL's opinion and of course walking away from things is always a choice but I firmly believe there will be no doubt in your mind when that time comes. Improving your workplace experience is largely under your control. Try to not have the high so high and the low so low. Even out your emotional range. And when you can't minimize the emotions....embrace them. It's part of the human experience. It is called the blues.
iris lilies
8-10-17, 9:26am
...But one of the other issues that seems to be missing in this conversation is, where do you honestly think I would go? What other job/career is just simply available without another retraining or pay cut. Unlike a boyfriend I actually need a job to live....
Yes, this exactly.
You don't have to quit. You just have to stop caring. Your version not caring will still be caring too much, but it will free you from being so involved in your job.
How do I know this? I have lived this. When I tried to care less and just get the work done and go home ... I was still a high achiever but I was happier.
Chicken lady
8-10-17, 10:02am
I don't know where you would go, but if you are more unhappy than happy (which we haven't really determined yet) I think you should explore possibilities, even improbabilities. At the worst you will discover that given your non-negotiables (location?, level of security?, income?....) you already have the best possible job. Which should hopefully make it more acceptable on the bad days.
iris lilies
8-10-17, 10:11am
You don't have to quit. You just have to stop caring. Your version not caring will still be caring too much, but it will free you from being so involved in your job.
How do I know this? I have lived this. When I tried to care less and just get the work done and go home ... I was still a high achiever but I was happier.
Stop "caring" I dont know, but working to align one's personal values of work more with the work values of the organization would be good. I think "stop Believing that my way is THE WAY" is more like it.
The OP and her oganization share the same single core value: give good care to kids. Period. All of the rest is methodology to provide the care. No one method is THE TRUE WAY so why not jump on the train that the organization chooses? Right, wrong, or in between, those practices are just choices.
"Care less" - sounds better than not caring. A person can care too much as in codependency.
Ultralight
8-10-17, 5:10pm
You don't have to quit. You just have to stop caring.
Yes, this exactly!
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