View Full Version : Leaving the USA....
OK, I have now sitting in front of me reliable job and citizenship offers from Iceland and Norway.
I can make do in Norwegian reasonably-well, Icelandic will take another year or so of study. And in both countries, frankly, in the urban areas, they speak English better than I do.
My 20-year-old daughter is passable in both languages.
I don't *need* the jobs from either place, but both are in fields I enjoy, and I'd feel less guilty than simply buying my way in. I can afford to purchase a nice home or farm in either place.
Have any of you ever left the USA, and your citizenship? And if so, what did you encounter?
Me, I'd be happy living in either Iceland or Norway for the rest of my days, if I can work out the details.
The Finns have made a reasonably-competitive offer as well, but Finnish is really bloody hard for my ear to pick up so far.
Conversation at dinner tonight involved the tactics of one of us retaining our US citizenship, Just In Case.
Dual-citizenship is a bit of a minefield, but I could traverse that if necessary.
ToomuchStuff
8-10-17, 1:08am
I will beat Rob to tell you congratulations!
So you have to surrender your citizenship for these jobs, rather then something like we have here (work visa's)?
I remember Tina Turner lived in another country for some years, before changing her citizenship status (by not renewing her visa, if I remember correctly). Not the same thing as renouncing your citizenship, but an option to consider.
If you have to change your citizenship, does your spouse also have to?
Is this the daughter that is in school? Does she have to go, and if so as well as if not, how does that affect her education costs (schooling, living, etc)?
Will Alan continue to pay for your health care?:~)
I don't know much about Norway, but Iceland varies quite a bit and is a beautiful country. (I'd love to see it, heck maybe attend a Sigar Ros concert)
And again, good luck and congratulations.
I don't *have* to change my citizenship.
My daughter has one more year of college left, which I am paying full-fare for out-of-pocket, though this year she spent at Cambridge. She'll be going to grad school next year at Cambridge, or perhaps Oxford.
Spouse does not need to change citizenship.
Alan will not pay for my health care anymore. Sven Olofson will. (I actually plan on remaining healthy until my mid-90's, like my grandparents, then dying in my sleep.)
BikingLady
8-10-17, 5:45am
I am so simple, Will you miss anyone here as not many will visit?
I went to Canada for 8 months during the Reagan years and retained the dual citizenship I have from birth (American father, Canadian mother). It did not feel like home, and it bothered me seeing things like the U.S. Flag burned. Now I have so many years into the Social Security system that I would not work abroad.
No experience here, but certainly understand what you are doing and why. I would pick Norway, due to geography and location and proximity to Denmark and Sweden. I would buy a farm and raise landrace sheep.
I would have a very difficult time giving up my citizenship.
Ultralight
8-10-17, 7:41am
bae:
I says go for it!
happystuff
8-10-17, 8:04am
How exciting! And congrats to you! I can't even imagine being in a similar situation. I also wonder if dual citizenship might be the way to go. For me, that would give me a feeling of having "options". Regardless, wishing you the best of luck.
Congrats Bae!
Would you be willing to share some of the thinking behind this possible move? It seemed from your posts that you were well rooted in your community, and an active participant in building and maintaining your community, so in my mind, that would be really hard to leave. What is the attraction of moving thousands of miles away and giving up the life you've obviously loved?
Speaking from the vantage of absolute ignorance, I would choose Norway, as it's not as isolated and insular as Iceland seems to be--and it's part of Europe!
You live in a lovely part of the world now, but if I were you, I'd snap this chance up in a heartbeat. Of course, you knew that...
I'd hedge my bets and go with dual citizenship for awhile...
Congrats Bae!
Would you be willing to share some of the thinking behind this possible move? It seemed from your posts that you were well rooted in your community, and an active participant in building and maintaining your community, so in my mind, that would be really hard to leave. What is the attraction of moving thousands of miles away and giving up the life you've obviously loved?
Exactly what I was thinking. But I do remember asking bae at one point if living the "simple life" on the island is intellectually stimulating enough. There are certainly a lot of opportunities to stretch all kinds of skills by expatriating and restarting another career. And with DD almost out of college, and actually attending in Europe, that makes it a bit easier.
If it were me, I would definitely want dual citizenship, though.
Congrats on the offer, bae!
iris lilies
8-10-17, 9:20am
You are going to work in one of those countries? Like, for money? If my question seems rude, its because I had figured your current Emergency response job is volunteer corp (which gets paid, I assume, but not in a traditional "job" sense.)
Which country is warmer? Go there. No, wait, just go to Norway. Iceland for vacation is very trendy right now.
I dont know about the dual citizenship thng. It seems like if you are making this move, go all in. The complexities of maintaining dual citizenship may not be worth it. It seems like one of those things where you look back years later and say "why did I bother with that back up plan?" Besides, with one spouse having citizenship, that seems good enough. Your marriage is solid.
this is interesting news, but you did hint about it months ago. I can imagine the reasons why for moving but wont put words in your mouth. Are you having to leave quite a bite of assets in the U.S. at the demand of the Feds?
will your mother remain in the U.S?
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-17, 9:23am
Bae, CONGRATS! What a wonderful situation to be in. I can't tell you how many people would be jealous of you if they knew. And this is not an easy choice - I'd be a bit stumped too as Norway and Iceland are both jumps in the quality of country scale. Norway has wonderful social welfare for all and is stable and is one of the few social welfare countries that is not in a great deal of debt and is not making cutbacks. OTOH I respect Iceland for putting their crooked bankers in prison after they messed up the economy (unlike in America where we go into further debt and bail them out....tells you a lot about America right there, doesn't it?) I'd probably go with Norway, truth be told, as it's closer to continental Europe. But best wishes and I'm very curious as to where you decide to land.......Rob
The Finns have made a reasonably-competitive offer as well, but Finnish is really bloody hard for my ear to pick up so far.
What an adventurous opportunity. I just wanted to say that in Finland college is free or almost free. The boys have a good friend that had dual citizenship and they are pretty envious of her college experience in Finland.
Oh, my cousin was just in Iceland for the World Highland Games, beautiful location. I think he came out in 5th place this time.
I moved from Ohio to Phoenix at age 48 and it took me a few years to fully adjust and make close friends here. I also missed my kids and grandson a lot - that was the hardest part. But I never regretted it. It opened up my world so much to live near and work with people from all over the world. My life in Ohio was very insular.
And this was simply an in-country move from rural to urban!
Enjoy your adventure.
Williamsmith
8-10-17, 10:09am
I vote for Iceland. Having learned about you through your posting....it seems more suited to your happy terms of existence. But don't burn your bridges, despite our seeming disfunctional society, the US is a grand place to live. You may want to come back and being the prepared person you are.....you will want to leave breadcrumbs.
iris lilies
8-10-17, 10:13am
What an adventurous opportunity. I just wanted to say that in Finland college is free or almost free. The boys have a good friend that had dual citizenship and they are pretty envious of her college experience in Finland.
Oh, my cousin was just in Iceland for the World Highland Games, beautiful location. I think he came out in 5th place this time.
what is his sport?
ToomuchStuff
8-10-17, 11:00am
I went to bed shortly after posting, too tired to come up with more.
But this morning, I talked to a relative, whose job made me think, what are the tax implications about each of your options? How are those effected by marriage? (can one of you even give up your citizenship, without both of you taking an exit tax hit)
what is his sport?
I have 2 cousins who compete 18601861 and hold records. There are several competitions in Highland Games all involve men in skirts throwing heavy things! Ha! We build 'em big and strong in my family. In fact one of my uncles may still hold a few state records in weightlifting back in the 60's.
Teacher Terry
8-10-17, 12:40pm
I would have dual citizenship. My DIL became a citizen but did not give up her Polish citizenship. I would vote for Norway.
iris lilies
8-10-17, 1:10pm
I have 2 cousins who compete http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1860&stc=1http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1861&stc=1 and hold records. There are several competitions in Highland Games all involve men in skirts throwing heavy things! Ha! We build 'em big and strong in my family. In fact one of my uncles may still hold a few state records in weightlifting back in the 60's.
oh, nice! Yes, usually the guys in skirts tossing this stuff, especially the caber, are burly. The sheaf toss is not for minis, though.
frugal-one
8-10-17, 1:45pm
My initial thought.... if you don't *need* to work... why do it? The stress +++ If you want to move you can go ANYWHERE you'd like. If I had to choose between the countries you quoted... Norway would be it!
I've been early retired now for 10 years. I can't comprehend wanting to move for work. I'd find another hobby if your bored.
Ive looked at a few places to live, but I have to have year round warm weather. I'll just stick to taking vacations at this point.
Good luck with whatever you chose, I wouldn't give up the citizenship to soon though.
My initial thought.... if you don't *need* to work... why do it?
It seems a more honorable way of gaining residency and leeching off their healthcare system than simply buying my way in :-)
It seems a more honorable way of gaining residency and leeching off their healthcare system than simply buying my way in :-)
bae, I'm in Canada and am Canadian and therefore have no opinion on your original question. I do live close by, though (Gulf Islands) and I'd just like to say that wow, your island community will miss you. You've made so many contributions over the years, from your current emergency-services work to the earlier work I seem to vaguely remember you talking about on the old boards about maybe housing? Whatever it was, I know you've been a terrific citizen in your community. I know you'll be missed.
ToomuchStuff
8-10-17, 3:59pm
You have engineering experience, biological experience, experience with borders and protection, and a neighbor who could put in a good word. However you still might have some stiff competition:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/a-9-year-old-applied-to-be-earths-planetary-protection-officer.html?recirc=taboolainternal
:D
An old friend moved to New Zealand years ago and plays in their national symphony. He was visiting the states last year and I asked him if he ever would consider moving back. As I remember it, he said he and his wife initially maintained a dual citizenship, but taxes became such an ordeal that he had recently denounced his US citizenship. Therefore, could never move back as a citizen. Apparently the denouement is permanent, no turning back. He said the US tax laws for dual citizen ship were so murky that the best NZ accountants could never seem to get it right and it had become a routine hassle. He said friends in similar situations had been fined large amounts while trying to do the right thing. Second hand and cursory, but maybe a thought.
What a wonderful opportunity. Norway seems like a fantastic place to live.
What an exciting prospect. I'm of the "all in" camp, as I'd likely want to assimilate into my new home and leave behind the old. So there's one vote on the side of renouncing US citizenship.
Being mostly ignorant of both countries, besides general knowledge gleaned here and there, I went to wiki. Fascinating, and I do say I've learned something today. Not knowing your goals, but making some assumptions, I vote for Iceland. It just seems like a better *fit* for what your online presence says to me.
My personal concern would be a restriction of outdoor activity due to temperature and seasonally restricted daylight. I love in Florida, and when visiting our vacation home in NC - I have noticed and missed the sunshine during daytime hours. I can't imagine that an adjustment to the semi-arctic conditions would be easy.
Ultralight
8-10-17, 5:14pm
My prediction: bae stays right where he is at.
The reason: He has got it damn good and he knows it!
iris lilies
8-10-17, 5:36pm
My prediction: bae stays right where he is at.
The reason: He has got it damn good and he knows it!
It may be more about establishing a home country for successive bae generations that is not the USA, or at least establishing an international way of life. Should shit hit the fan, ya know.
IshbelRobertson
8-10-17, 5:36pm
I have 2 cousins who compete 18601861 and hold records. There are several competitions in Highland Games all involve men in skirts throwing heavy things! Ha! We build 'em big and strong in my family. In fact one of my uncles may still hold a few state records in weightlifting back in the 60's.
Only a brave person ould call that item of clothing a 'skirt'...
You have visited both places. What resonates with your and your wife's values outside the work aspects?
Only a brave person ould call that item of clothing a 'skirt'...
haha! I was waiting for you to weigh in, Ishbel! Any comment on tossing the caber or putting the stone?
frugal-one
8-10-17, 8:35pm
It seems a more honorable way of gaining residency and leeching off their healthcare system than simply buying my way in :-)
Both ways seem honorable to me.... if they "allow" you to buy in.
IshbelRobertson
8-11-17, 9:25am
haha! I was waiting for you to weigh in, Ishbel! Any comment on tossing the caber or putting the stone?
I grew up attending highland Gatherings throughout the summer as I was a Highland Dancer. My brother was a shinty player and many of the family played the pipes, but none of the men took part in any of the games events that required brawn!
Only a brave person would call that item of clothing a 'skirt'...
Thankfully my cousins and I are on very good terms. We razz each other a lot, but not as much as they razz each other. One cousin has been to Scotland several times to compete (and place) and I remember something about him being an honored guest. He found the home-place for that side of the family.
I'm hoping Bae will give us more thoughts and comments on this decision. I'm curious about the job offers. What connections did you have in place already? Were these offers out-of-the-blue or did you apply?
I'm hoping Bae will give us more thoughts and comments on this decision. I'm curious about the job offers. What connections did you have in place already? Were these offers out-of-the-blue or did you apply?
The offers were "sort of" out-of-the-blue. I've been visiting both places for some time with an eye towards simply purchasing a home, and establishing residency. I have some professional contacts in the area, and have met people from there at training events here in the USA for years now.
The region is also likely to play a large role in my daughter's professional life. The jobs offered were, as almost every job I've ever had, the result of discussion and exploration, and not an application/interview process.
To be fair, the Canadian Gulf Islands are also a tremendously attractive possibility, and the logistical/cultural issues much easier to deal with. But I do suspect our one-and-only daughter will be spending the next 20-30 years far away from the Pacific NW.
Norway would be my first choice if language and citizenship were not an issue. More for the decision they made as a country on how to use their oil wealth for the good of all and not just throw it at the "new thing of the day." Iceland has been invaded by tourists and it is seriously affecting the atmosphere of the country for those living there.
Based on my experience with family, go where you and your wife feel at home. Children are then free to move where ever they feel most at home. Your daughter may end up in NZ or Timbucto depending her emotional and legal commitments in the future as many work commitments work well online. Her focus once was on 'old language', if I remember correctly.
Her focus once was on 'old language', if I remember correctly.
Norse and Celtic Studies. Unlikely this will take her to New Zealand, but those Viking explorers ranged widely - some of her research work is on Viking settlements in Constantinople :-)
Norse and Celtic Studies. Unlikely this will take her to New Zealand, but those Viking explorers ranged widely - some of her research work is on Viking settlements in Constantinople :-)
I just got back from visiting L'Anse aux Meadows in NFLD and touring the island with my grandson on a tour. The sun was shining, icebergs on the ocean, beautiful breeze, 20C temp, enthusiastic re-enactors answering every question thrown at them and my imagination went wild. DGS even went exploring, as early teen boys will, and found the kind of flint rock needed and used to make early knives and made several. Have you or your daughter gone there? There are so many Viking settlement areas to explore which I would think in Iceland and Norway would be amazing.
One of the tour members was a re-enactor so researched and made herself a costume of that Viking time which was great fun to see with the fasteners, decorations and layers of fabric.
HappyHiker
8-15-17, 4:30pm
I'd opt for Norway. Had a Norwegian Elkhound once. She was a good dog. Norway has fjords. I rest my case.
When do you have to decide by?
I'd opt for Norway. Had a Norwegian Elkhound once. She was a good dog. Norway has fjords. I rest my case.
:laff::D:~)
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